Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Rutilant on October 10, 2003, 02:00:11 AM
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I was looking over this rather interesting chart..
http://www.dbstaines.com/TourStats/total/Total.htm
And i thought about the Chog perk becasue i was reminded by muckymuckmuckmaw's thread..
If i'm correct the CHog was perked becuse of usage issues, correct? At it's peak before the perk (i'm assuming the peak was before the perk) it got as much as 40,000 kills in a tour.
The la7 at one point got even more than that(Tour 36). Why wasn't it perked i wonder? Possibly because it doesn't have a full jabo package?
The pony got even higher, at 45,000 kills int he same amount of time, it was clearly used much more than the Chog, and, like the chog carried a full jabo package, all it lacked was four hispanos, but the 6 .50s arent under-par. Nor this was perked. If the Chog was perked due to over-usage, why wasnt the Pony perked?
How about the Spit9? It's seen almost 48,000 kills in tour 42, and has maintained more kills than the chog at it's peak, save for the most recent tour. it also carries a decent jabo and guns package, good manuverability and decent speed, but... I'm focusing on usage, which was supposedly the only reason the Chog was perked... The spit9 hasnt been perked either.
It doesn't make much sense to me, perking the Chog but leaving all these others free..
Flame on.
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P-51 and Spitfire Mk IX are two of the most popular airplanes in the world. Both are recognized by non-aviation enthusiasts and their exploits are often well known, documented, and publicized.
Perking the P-51 is like sticking a tax on the air you breathe when it comes to not only marketing the game, but airplanes people love. Think of the new player...what draw is there for them to fly a P-47, 190A8 or F4F? They don't as often know what those airplanes are, or if they do they don't understand their history. But...a P-51D? Who wouldn't give anything to have a chance to fly a P-51? I would turn in my pilot certificate and disqualify myself from reissuance of a medical to have access to a P-51 even if I could fill the tanks once and fly as far as that will take me. Don't complain about the P-51 or the Spitfire. These two airplanes were some of the most highly produced airplanes and I'd consider it a good thing for aviation that if for no other reason, the new guy on a free trial wants to take up his dream plane and try his hand at combat. You'd take that away from them simply because many people fly it? You focus in on what you see as a problem, but perking it is no solution.
Next time you're at an airshow and are silenced by the whistle of a P-51's Merlin engine and the thoughts and dreams of wanting to be in the cockpit punching holes in the sky, think about how someone out there might want the chance to have the most simplest of tastes of it using this online game.
Now...the La-7 is another story. If the La-7 was as big and bad as it's become in here...then why doesnt anyone outside of this game know what the hell it is. Lavichikawho? That's one of my most fielded questions when instructing in the Training Arena...simply explaining what the hell an La-7 is. Knock back the top end speed 10 knots, reduce the acceleration a percent or three and then it's ideal. But after all this is not a simulator...this is a game. And lets leave it at that, a game and be happy we have it.
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Sounds like P51 fanboyism to me. Is a perk cost of 2-3 perks really all that horrific?
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To the folks that don't have any...yes.
You're not going to offset anything by perking an airplane, you'll still have those knucklehead pilots out there who think this is Air-Quake, and you'll always have new guys who just don't know any better. What was the first plane you took on your first mission on your first day...I promise it wasn't a 205 or a P-47.
Fanboyism, is not a word.
If you think I'm partial to the P-51, sure. But not because it carries bombs or anything that has to do with Aces High. It's more than that. If you can sit back and look at a P-51 and not think thats exactly what a fighter plane should look like...sleek, sexy and looks like its going 400mph just sitting on the ramp...then I'll buy you an airshow pass so you can understand.
Same goes with the Spitfire, regardless of type. It's the pride of the British people from that era. It too is arguably one of the best looking fighters out there and it's got that romantic image behind it, the image that it is credited with saving Britain in the summer of 1940. You want to tell the British lad or lass that signs up that he or she can't fly one of his most historic aircraft, instead needs to fly an early war plane so he can buy a ride? No.
I doubt your true motivation to post on the subject. If you truly wanted the airplane perked you'd have taken matters up over the phone with the HTC crew not posted a whine about how one of the most rare variants of the F4U is perked, and so should the most popular airplanes from the Second World War.
USgolfer is a veteran of online flight sims dating back to free Air Warrior on AOL. Resides in Columbus, OH attending school and has nearly completed a degree in Aviation Management. Currently a Private Pilot and Ultralight Flight Instructor with the EAA, will within a year posess all FAA ratings short of ATP. He is a big fan of the P-51 and loves nothing more than hearing that unique 'whistle' of a passing Mustang. He is also a strong opponent of perking the P-51 Mustang and Spitfire Mk IX.
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These days CHog is 400lbs(?) heavyer than it was durin the "glory days".
Also arena numbers was bit different too.
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Theres been so much wondering and different bull**** theories about why different planes are perked. Bottom line is, it is perked because Hitech wanted it perked, and the Big 4 are not perked because Hitech doesn't want them perked. And my personal pet bull**** theory is that as long as the money keeps rolling in, they never will be either.
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Originally posted by Rutilant
It doesn't make much sense to me, perking the Chog but leaving all these others free..
Are you using actual percentages of total kills to compare here, or are you just using total kills? Using total kills invalidates your entire argument since the number of overall players has increased substantially since the pre-perked CHog days. Thus if you're talking 40,000 out of 200,000 kills, you can't compare it to 48,000 out of 500,000 kills.
So at its peak, what was the percentage of the total kills obtained by the F4U-1C? And at its peak, what was the percentage of total kills obtained by the La7?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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First of all, this isnt a whine, i'm questioning the reasoning.
'Fanboyism' not being a word doesnt make you any less of a completely biased fanboy.
If the pony or the spit9 didnt have an earlier variant i could understand, but they do.
Also, the first plane i ever flew WAS a P47.. P47 or P38, not positive which.
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valid points made by golfer.
chog/playerbase of 2 years ago much different than now - valid points by DMF.
so you're also advocating perking the fw190d9 and fw109g10? and p47d30?
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If you want to perk the P-51 and Spitfire, then start your own online game. I wish you the best of luck and hope you'll be happy with this, as you see it, unsatisfactory game that indiscriminately distributes two of the most popular fighters to the masses dedicated solely on striking a nerve deep within your soul by flying them. I roll my eyes at you, sir. :rolleyes:
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the chog was perked because it got near 20% of this kills in the main. Plain and simple.
Total kills may have been lower then todays "big 5" but the chogs percentage of kills was higher.
Back then the main had a cap of 240 players and averaged around 200 per night. The planeset was less diverse so even the "big 5" then had a larger percentage of total kills then the "big 5" today. It was those tours following the 1.04 fm where chog useage jumped and continued to climb until perked.
Not every one who flew a chog was good so I would guess that it useage was actually higher then its percentage of kills.
If 1 in 5 kills were from chogs and I would guess that 1 out of every 4 planes in air were chogs. There damn sure were alot of them.
The chog was a rare bird in ww2 and had a huge impact on the main. Much larger then any one of the big 5 today or then.
At the time I didnt really care that much if it was perked or not. There certainly were lotsa of whines. But flying in the main after the chog was perked I think ht made the right choice. Its a cheap perk, cheap enough where any one who wants one can get one.
None of the big 5 need perking.
The p51d and p51b are all there is for the p51 fans. add more p40s and p51 mk1 and maybe an a36 then you can perk the p51d.
There is only 3 vvs fighter in the game, 2 of which (yak 9u and la7) could be perked. But since thats all there is for the vvs fans then I would say leave umm unperked until ht adds more vvs planes.
The same with the n1k2. If ht adds more japanese planes then he may look at perking it.
The spit 9, well if you think the spit 9 needs perking you just suck and should quit.
The g10 could be perked if and when we get a 109g6AS or g14.
The d9 could be perked when/if the p51d gets perked.
At this point theres no need to perk any more of the planes we currently have. None have the impact on the main the chog had.
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Just look here Rutilant :
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10636
nothing new :)
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The perking of the C-Hog was a classic example of the power of mass whining. Perk em all, perk none...matters not to me, but the need for a wholesale readjustment of ENY values is long overdue.
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Before you jump all over me, tell me where i asked to have any of those planes perked?
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Hmmm, not sure if you meant me or not Rut, but if so I'm certainly not jumping on anybody. Just my view on the ongoing C-Hog Big 5 debate.
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The P51 is not a problem, it may be annoying when they run, but nothing more. The Spit is more of a problem because it is a very good MA plane, but I understand it's a popular (and important) plane for other reasons than just its abilities. The La7 is also a good MA plane since the Russian front was very much like the MA (huge low level fights), but I don't see it as a problem (unless Shane is flying it). P38, not a problem (unless AKAK's flying it). The Spit is the plane I have most difficulty dealing with, but I understand it cannot be limited as a perk plane.
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Originally posted by Golfer
P-51 and Spitfire Mk IX are two of the most popular airplanes in the world. Both are recognized by non-aviation enthusiasts and their exploits are often well known, documented, and publicized.
Perking the P-51 is like sticking a tax on the air you breathe when it comes to not only marketing the game, but airplanes people love. Think of the new player...what draw is there for them to fly a P-47, 190A8 or F4F? They don't as often know what those airplanes are, or if they do they don't understand their history.
I wasn't around before the CHog was perked, and therefore didn't see what the MA looked like with unperked CHogs available.
But Golfer, please explain why it was the CHog that overran the MA (not the P51 or SpitIX), and created the case for HTC to perk it. Please also explain why usage dropped off (ie perkage had the desired effect) when the nominal cost of a CHog was only 8pp when perked. You're saying that the P51 and Spit ix are the planes which need to be kept unperked for noobs to learn on, and that this is why we see so many of them, and yet before its perkage, it was the CHog that was the most ubiquitous plane - not the P51 or SpitIX. Seems like the noobs were perfectly happy with it before it was perked - even if it was a lesser known plane than the Mustang. And of course, Messrs Toad & Shane would assure us that the CHog is an easy plane in which to get kills, so the case for retaining easy unperked planes for the noobs (P51 & SpitIX) goes out the window if the CHog is as easy as they say it is.
Knowing what I do about the AH community and MA gameplay, the accolades earned by the P51 and Spit during WW2 have got bugger all to do with the plane choices made by AH fliers.
My own view is that the erstwhile CHog drivers who deserted this plane when it was perked probably belonged to the pork-n-auger crowd who wanted easy kills without having to "waste time" RTB, kills without having to go to the bother of learning ACM (just HO instead) and without having to earn the privilege of flying it.
LA7? N1K? How many people had heard of those before joining AH? I hadn't. Most folks flying AH are American - and yet a plane from JAPAN of all places is part of the Big Five. And with that, the argument that folks want to be patriotic and choose to fly a plane that held an important place in his country's history has just taken a swerve around the U-bend.
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Originally posted by Rutilant
'Fanboyism' not being a word doesnt make you any less of a completely biased fanboy.
These words are bound for history.
:D
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What was that song by Whitesnake...
"Here I go again..."
Golfer-
I agree the Pony and the spit are hot rides and famous WWII birds. But this game is more than quake with airplane skins.
WHAT IS SO WRONG WITH MAKING PEOPLE..EVERYONE..EARN THEIR RIDE?
Is it me or do the majority of video games use the carrot and stick approach. Every game I've played worth it's alt gave you the basic weapons when you started. It challenged you to succeed, and earn the better weapons, equiptment, etc. AH is one of the few games where you can log in and access almost any weapon in the game from day 1.
If Newbies wanna fly a pony on day 1, there's the TA, where they should be on the first few days anyway. There's also events, CT, DA. BUt I digress.
Finally, you could make it so every player gets 100 perks or whatever at the beginning of each tour.
Hold onto to those perks if you want your plane for the whole tour though. No Suicide jabo runs.
Urchin-
Just because HTC has not perked them yet, does not mean it would not work. Whats so bad about trying it for 1 tour?
Beetle-
Flew that C-Hog last night. Mean airplane. Backed it up with my P-40E o' Death. heheh Closed out with the D-30. I did not care for that ride much. It's not maneauverable enough for my style.
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It was the combination of the C-Hogs inherent flight capabilities and the CANNONS Beetle.
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You're comparing what the F4u-1C did during tour 12 (first tour with the Navy vessels) where all planes combined for 200,000 kills to what happens in the later tours where 600,000 kills are occuring. 40,000 back then is significantly different than 40,000 now.
MiniD
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Good point as well minid.
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Originally posted by aztec
The perking of the C-Hog was a classic example of the power of mass whining.
:rolleyes: If that were true...the La7 would have been perked long ago.
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_116_1065789567.jpg)
Tour 2, it was. And I was (and still am) only an average stick.
Those were the days my friend
We thought theyŽd never end
WeŽd sing and dance forever and a day
WeŽd live the life we choose
WeŽd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way.
Ah, the C-hog days. Man, that was fun back then. Especially hearing the LW guys cry; THAT was the real bonus. A terrible shock I guess, realizing that they no longer had "the exclusive" on fighters with 4 cannons. And not the best cannons at that!
EZ mode? This game is definitely easier with a cannon armed plane (well, except the early Zeke) and if you have 4 cannon of any type, it's a major advantage. 4 Hispanos is the pinnacle; I'm finding the Hurri II C sorta EZ mode as well. Rude likes it a lot and it is fun for a while, but I don't think I can stick with it much longer.
In an MA environment, the ability to end a fight with a short burst is an incredible advantage. One can pretend it isn't, but one is only deluding one's self.
Anyway, thanks for the memories!
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Originally posted by aztec
It was the combination of the C-Hogs inherent flight capabilities and the CANNONS Beetle.
I don't know nearly as much about AH as many of you so I must ask, and there is no sarcasm in this.
Is the Spit 9 in the same class as the C-hog? I mean the plane, from the limited use I've had with it, seems to have great flight characteristics, and it does have a set of hispanos on it. (but not the ammo load out of the C-Hog, IIRC). Is it not good enough to qualify for a perk?
Also another point on what Golfer said:
We have a P-51B and a Spit V in here. Let the people who want to fly their dreamplane fly that until they earn the perks to fly the caddilacs. (Of give em enough perks at the beggingin of each tour for a few sorties)
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BTW... anyone spot the only time anything broke 100,000 kills for one tour?
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Originally posted by muckmaw
We have a P-51B and a Spit V in here. Let the people who want to fly their dreamplane fly that until they earn the perks to fly the caddilacs.
:rofl
If suddenly the Wizards of Perk waved their wand and every Spit sortie was a Spit V and every -51 sortie was a B and every La-7 sortie was a -5.......
how long before the "Perk the V! Perk the B! Perk the -5! I see too many of 'em!" moaning would begin?
The V is a great little ride; I prefer it to the IX, personally, when I'm in a Spit flying mood.
The B? Very minor adjustment for a D driver and a few more assists rather than kills.
I don't really do much in the Russian planes. In fact, I've been doing some La-7 time to see how to deal with them more quickly. Seems you just got to get them slow and then they're meat. But I know I seem to have more trouble killing -5's than -7's overall.
I can hear 'em now though. "All we ever see is V's, B's and 5's! Do something! Perk this! Perk that! HT! HT! HTeeeeeeeee! Those other guys won't fly what I tell them to fly!"
:rofl :rofl
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Roll those baby blues all you want nobaddy, were you here for the C-Hog whinefest?
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Originally posted by Toad
:rofl
If suddenly the Wizards of Perk waved their wand and every Spit sortie was a Spit V and every -51 sortie was a B and every La-7 sortie was a -5.......
how long before the "Perk the V! Perk the B! Perk the -5! I see too many of 'em!" moaning would begin?
The V is a great little ride; I prefer it to the IX, personally, when I'm in a Spit flying mood.
The B? Very minor adjustment for a D driver and a few more assists rather than kills.
I don't really do much in the Russian planes. In fact, I've been doing some La-7 time to see how to deal with them more quickly. Seems you just got to get them slow and then they're meat. But I know I seem to have more trouble killing -5's than -7's overall.
I can hear 'em now though. "All we ever see is V's, B's and 5's! Do something! Perk this! Perk that! HT! HT! HTeeeeeeeee! Those other guys won't fly what I tell them to fly!"
:rofl :rofl
Very good points, Toad.
The only alternative in my mind would be to seperate the plane set into 3-4 levels. Level 1 being rhe least capable airplanes, on up to level 5, the most unbalancing, top rides, with perks ranging from 0 for level 1 up to X for level 5 and increasing with each level.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
AH is one of the few games where you can log in and access almost any weapon in the game from day 1.
If Newbies wanna fly a pony on day 1,
Oh, yes, indeedy!
The new guys should have to spend one week in re-supply M3's, then a week flying only goons and then they should be allowed access ONLY to the bottom part of the plane list. The C-202, P-40B, A6M2 type stuff.
We, the more experienced, will lovingly and tenderly guide them through this introductory period, encouraging them, saluting them, allowing them to RTB in smoking hulks instead of dumping them into the sea. Nor will we chute their shoots or take any shots from ahead of their 3-9 line.
It will be the dawning of the Age of Aquarius, The Age of Aquarius, THE AGE OF AQUARIUS! A--- QUAR----RI---US!
and HT's revenues will skyrocket as the newbie hordes hear about this paradise and pound on the internet gates of HTC, waving their credit card numbers.
Or... maybe not. :D
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Originally posted by muckmaw
The only alternative in my mind would be to seperate the plane set into 3-4 levels.....
:lol :rofl :lol :rofl
Muck, you don't work for the US Government by any chance, do you?
"What the great unwashed mass of players in AH needs is MORE REGULATION, instituted by we, the ENGLIGHTENED saviors of the game!"
Cripes....... it's too da n funny! I do thank you though.. 8:20 AM and I actually had tears rolling down my cheeks! It's gonna be a GREAT day!
Just let 'em play, Muck. The greatest feeling in this game is winning a fight you should have no chance of winning.
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Originally posted by Toad
Oh, yes, indeedy!
The new guys should have to spend one week in re-supply M3's, then a week flying only goons and then they should be allowed access ONLY to the bottom part of the plane list. The C-202, P-40B, A6M2 type stuff.
We, the more experienced, will lovingly and tenderly guide them through this introductory period, encouraging them, saluting them, allowing them to RTB in smoking hulks instead of dumping them into the sea. Nor will we chute their shoots or take any shots from ahead of their 3-9 line.
It will be the dawning of the Age of Aquarius, The Age of Aquarius, THE AGE OF AQUARIUS! A--- QUAR----RI---US!
and HT's revenues will skyrocket as the newbie hordes hear about this paradise and pound on the internet gates of HTC, waving their credit card numbers.
Or... maybe not. :D
Toad, is it possible for you to have a discussion without being obnoxius? Really.
Whats wrong with making everyone earn their weapons? Every other successful game I've played did it this way.
How did Ultima online fare? IIRC it was very successful. Now how did a noob start that game? With a dager, some rags for cloths, No strength, and no skills. He honed his fighting skills killing weak animals, all the while dodging the super PK's who were at the top of the food chain. UO and just about every other game made the player earn it. IIRC, UO had 100,000 subscribers at it's peak.
I don't play many recent games but I think you see my point. You dont have to give the player everything on day 1 to be successful.
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Originally posted by Toad
:lol :rofl :lol :rofl
Muck, you don't work for the US Government by any chance, do you?
"What the great unwashed mass of players in AH needs is MORE REGULATION, instituted by we, the ENGLIGHTENED saviors of the game!"
Cripes....... it's too da n funny! I do thank you though.. 8:20 AM and I actually had tears rolling down my cheeks! It's gonna be a GREAT day!
Just let 'em play, Muck. The greatest feeling in this game is winning a fight you should have no chance of winning.
Toad-
I have stated how I would like to see Aces High played. That's all there is to this whole drawn out debate. Apparently, there are a few that agree with me. I'm sorry if this upsets you but this is after all, a harmless discussion.
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Sorry, Muck... this whole "Perk 'em all" discussion just shattered my funny bone this morning.
Hey... what do you think about a "cloak of invisibility" for my F4U-1C? I'd be willing to go on a quest to the VH at V33567 to find it.
Maybe an extra armor spell for my Zeke from the Wizard on Mount Shinerbock?
:rofl
You're killing me.. time to go face reality and quit being so cheerful.
Cyas later today!
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I think all this leads to another question as well. If a paltry 7 or 8 perk points was as effective as it seems to have been in ending the C-Hogs dominace, why then are the other perk planes priced SOOO much higher?
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I wonder what effect unperking the chog would have in today's MA. Would it return to over 20% of MA kills? One can only speculate, but my opinion is it probably wouldn't.
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But before I go, won't you join me in an old AH song? A long time favorite?
"Perk 'em all!
Perk 'em all!
The large and the fast and the small.
Perk all the Nikkis and all La's too,
Perk anything that can shoot back at you!
`cause they're asking to just perk 'em all
As back to their Gruppen they crawl,
There'll be constant crying
as long as they're dying,
So cheer up, my lads,
Perk 'em all!
Nobody knows if the FM's are true,
So cheer up, my lads,
Perk 'em all!"
:rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Toad, is it possible for you to have a discussion without being obnoxius? Really.
Whats wrong with making everyone earn their weapons? Every other successful game I've played did it this way.
It work already this way : a complete newbie start as a target fodder and with more time became more and more skilled whatever the type of plane choosen.
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Tinkering with the perking idea...
3-4 perks arent gonna limit a newbie from flying thier favrite ride in thier first couple of days, if that. it can't hurt to at least TRY it for a tour..
Everyone, please try to keep it civil, i don't want this turning into a flame war, this is supposed to be a mature legitimate thread.
Beet1e, Toad, kiss and make up cuz this thread ain't a daycare.
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I've wondered that myself Acid...you must remember in the C-Hogs glory days we had a much smaller planeset and fewer planes that could reasonably compete with it. The La7 and Tyhoon come to mind.
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From a couple of the responses it does indeed sound like a legitamite threat Muck ;)
Disclaimer; No bunched panties please, just kidding.
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Originally posted by aztec
I've wondered that myself Acid...you must remember in the C-Hogs glory days we had a much smaller planeset and fewer planes that could reasonably compete with it. The La7 and Tyhoon come to mind.
My sentiments exactly. Add to that a much larger player base now compared to back then.
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The top 6 planes ranked by Kill/Death are all perk planes except #6 (P47-D11). F4U-C is #3 K/D this tour so far.
Me262 K/D 5.80
Tempest K/D 4.77
F4U-C K/D 2.80
Ta152 K/D 2.41
Me 163 K/D 2.35
F4U-4 K/D 2.29
P47 D11 K/D 1.81
The top 4 most killed planes so far this tour (accounting for 24.38% of all deaths) are:
#1 Spitfire IX K/D 1.15
#2 P51-D K/D 0.90
#3 La7 K/D 1.01
#4 N1K2 K/D 1.19
So it looks to me like everythign is OK, leave them alone we need something to shoot down. They are statisticly as likely to die as kill, unlike a F4U-C where it is almost 3 times more likely to kill the average pilot. Like I think someone already said, if these planes are giving you a lot of trouble in your overall flying in the MA you might need to work on your tactics.
source: http://www.innomi.com/ahkillstats/totalstats.php
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Originally posted by muckmaw
How did Ultima online fare? IIRC it was very successful. Now how did a noob start that game? With a dager, some rags for cloths, No strength, and no skills. He honed his fighting skills killing weak animals, all the while dodging the super PK's who were at the top of the food chain. UO and just about every other game made the player earn it. IIRC, UO had 100,000 subscribers at it's peak.
Blue Baron, former producer of Air Warrior for Kesmai, once gave a speech about the differences between online flight sims and online role playing games. In it, he explained that MMORPGs represent geritocracies where those who have been playing the longest possess the most wealth, the best weapons, the highest levels, etc. In contrast, online flight sims are meritocracies where someone like WldThing, who's been around a couple of years, can beat the heck out of someone who's been around for twice that long.
Why? Because his skill dictates the outcome, not his tenure. So when you talk about "earning it," you're missing the entire fact that players are "earning it" every day by practicing to become better regardless of how long they've been playing.
IMO there's no place for a geritocratic system in the main arena environment. AH2: TOD should appease the more role playing-minded players in the community and draw on the Ultima Online crowds. But like it or not, the AH main arena really is more Air Quake than it is Everquest. And that's not such a bad thing in my mind.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Zanth
The top 6 planes ranked by Kill/Death are all perk planes except #6 (P47-D11). F4U-C is #3 K/D this tour so far.
Me262 K/D 5.80
Tempest K/D 4.77
F4U-C K/D 2.80
Ta152 K/D 2.41
Me 163 K/D 2.35
F4U-4 K/D 2.29
P47 D11 K/D 1.81
The top 4 most killed planes so far this tour (accounting for 24.38% of all deaths) are:
#1 Spitfire K/D 1.15
#2 P51-D K/D 0.90
#3 La7 K/D 1.01
#4 N1K2 K/D 1.19
So it looks to me like everythign is OK, leave them alone we need something to shoot down. Like I think someone already said, if these planes are giving you a lot of trouble in your overall flying in the MA you might need to work on your tactics.
source: http://www.innomi.com/ahkillstats/totalstats.php
They maintain the highest K/d because they don't collide with fuel bunkers, and there's an incentive to to bring them home. Makes sense, no?
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Originally posted by Rutilant
They maintain the highest K/d because they don't collide with fuel bunkers, and there's an incentive to to bring them home. Makes sense, no?
P47 D-11 (typhoon beats em too, and I bet ya they encounter those fuel bunkers more than the big 5 all added together)
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"they don't collide with fuel bunkers" still applies. It only carries one small bomb,so isnt a very effective jabo platform, as opposed to the overloaded P47-D30, and more experienced pilots tend to fly the D11, and your average joe will take the D30 because it's has a bigger number.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Blue Baron, former producer of Air Warrior for Kesmai, once gave a speech about the differences between online flight sims and online role playing games. In it, he explained that MMORPGs represent geritocracies where those who have been playing the longest possess the most wealth, the best weapons, the highest levels, etc. In contrast, online flight sims are meritocracies where someone like WldThing, who's been around a couple of years, can beat the heck out of someone who's been around for twice that long.
Why? Because his skill dictates the outcome, not his tenure. So when you talk about "earning it," you're missing the entire fact that players are "earning it" every day by practicing to become better regardless of how long they've been playing.
IMO there's no place for a geritocratic system in the main arena environment. AH2: TOD should appease the more role playing-minded players in the community and draw on the Ultima Online crowds. But like it or not, the AH main arena really is more Air Quake than it is Everquest. And that's not such a bad thing in my mind.
-- Todd/Leviathn
DMF-
This is one of the best posts I've ever read on this subject. Though I disagree with certain aspects of it, the bottom line is, you are right. THe MA is quake with WWII airplanes, much to my chagrin. Though I and many others would prefer something different, I believe it is satisfactory enough for enough players to keep the dollars rolling in at grapevine, and that's all that really matters to HTC. Perhaps AHII will be more to my tastes. Perhaps another game will. I guess I'll have to start looking.
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My opinion as to why the F4U-1C K/D is 3rd among perked planes is that it's because it's perked. Most if not all who fly a perk plane regardless of it's cost tend to fly smart. They fly smart because noone wants to lose a perk plane, again regardless of the cost. Another theory could be that most who fly it are experienced in it. That combined with perk aware flying could lead to a higher K/D than if it were not perked.
All speculation really, noone can positively say one way or another if it would return to unbalance gameplay. One can make a compelling case either way though.
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Originally posted by AcId
My opinion as to why the F4U-1C K/D is 3rd among perked planes is that it's because it's perked. Most if not all who fly a perk plane regardless of it's cost tend to fly smart.
I was going to wind up Mr. Toad by saying that the CHog k/d stats are distorted - because I fly it! :D But you said it better. I get shot down plenty, but it's a good plane for earning perks.
I've always liked the Corsairs - right back in WB days even. And I've always liked carrier ops. Reasons to fly the CHog - great for upping off the CV to deal with the 500' LANC/B26/ju88 formations. Good for snapshots. The 1D needs a longer burst. But if building battling, and I have a couple of tool sheds that need whacking, the 1D might be better - 8 rockets instead of only 4. It's a toss up between the two which is best for fuel porkage. Rockets on the fuel bunkers? Perk rockets!
BTW Mr. Toad, you're in a good mood today - singing songs and all. :) Thanks for that Mary Hopkin song. She lives in the next village from here. I'll introduce you to her, but first you have to sing another song, which was in the top 40 at the same time as Mary's song. That song is another of your favourites... "Yummy! Yumm! Yummy! (I got love in my tummy)" by Ohio Express. :D:D
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Originally posted by muckmaw
DMF-
This is one of the best posts I've ever read on this subject. Though I disagree with certain aspects of it, the bottom line is, you are right. THe MA is quake with WWII airplanes, much to my chagrin. Though I and many others would prefer something different, I believe it is satisfactory enough for enough players to keep the dollars rolling in at grapevine, and that's all that really matters to HTC. Perhaps AHII will be more to my tastes. Perhaps another game will. I guess I'll have to start looking.
Came to the same conclusion myself recently, Muck. No sour grapes here, its just that it became obvious to me that AH was moving farther and farther away from what I wanted out of a OL flight sim. Still follow the boards here, though, for the occasional worthwhile discussion, and force of habit I suppose. I'm interested in trying TOD, but I suspect its still quite far away.
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I guess I am not the average gamer, or not part of the market these video game companies go after.
Hell, after Aces High, my favorite game is Civilization III.
I never liked first person shooters, as I get bored with them easily and look for something else, but the bulk of new video games seem to be first person shooters.
*shrugs*
This explains why I don't have a console system.
Well, here's hoping WWIIOL will get it's act together or AHII will be what I hope for.
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Eliminate perks completely. Let anyone fly what they want to fly. Who the heck cares?
All the experts who abhore the uber rides can then stroke their egos by defeating 262s in Hurricane Is, thus proving once and for all that they are AH gods, for what thats worth.
Those of us who are RAF, USAAF fans can fly Spits or Stangs and not have to apologize cause then we have to deal with the Luftwaffe fans in their TA152s and 262s.
The GV fans can prove they are tanker gods by defeating all the Tiger I mobs in their Mk IV panzers or M3s if they want to try.
The Navy fans can have super Corsairs, or prove their mettle by defeating the super Corsairs in F4Fs or Zeros. Give em Bearcats, Seafurys, F7Fs I don't care, I'm not gonna fly em cause they don't interest me.
I like Spits. The history of the Spit has been a long time passion and I'll be damned if I'll apologize for indulging my imagination for flying a cyber Spit, cause its as close as I'm going to get to flying one.
Do I fly other planes? Sure, on occasion I'll hop in a Jug or a 51 or even a P40, and my son will drag me into a 109G6 now and then cause his interest is Luftwaffe stuff. But overall they don't interest me so I don't fly Luftwaffe birds. You could throw 262s at me for free and I'd turn it down cause it would bore me. I'll fly a Hurri I before I'd fly a TA152, but thats me.
It's not my place to dictate to some other player how they approach the game. It cracks me up to see these debates where folks want to somehow mandate how I play. The MA isn't in place for that.
In CT or a Scenario, Snapshot or whatever, I know that my choices are limited. That's fine. By entering that arena I'm signing off that I know that. But that doesn't/shouldn't apply to MA. When I enter that arena I know that I could run into just about anything, and that's fine with me.
So unperk em all, I'll stick to the Spit V and IX regardless.
Dan/Slack
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Originally posted by AcId
My opinion as to why the F4U-1C K/D is 3rd among perked planes is that it's because it's perked. Most if not all who fly a perk plane regardless of it's cost tend to fly smart. They fly smart because noone wants to lose a perk plane, again regardless of the cost. Another theory could be that most who fly it are experienced in it. That combined with perk aware flying could lead to a higher K/D than if it were not perked.
All speculation really, noone can positively say one way or another if it would return to unbalance gameplay. One can make a compelling case either way though.
They fly smart or do they fly scared? It's always the perked birds I see hanging high over the mob of unperked birds who are furballing all over the place. Not much of a gamble if the other guys are doing the set up work and you drop in, cherry pick someone elses work and bail out of the fight. I don't ever recall seeing a perked bird co-alt. They are always higher and moving faster looking for a free lunch.
Posts are mentioning that the perked rides have the best K/D ratio. Once again, not a surprise cause they aren't going to dive into a fight they might not survive because they don't want to lose the perks
So again, I'd say unperk em all. Let those uber plane drivers actually risk it in a furball and see how they do. Regardless of the ride, the good pilots always seperate themselves from the rest of us. And regardless of the ride, us average joe pilots remain average joes, with no complaint from this average joe cause I'm having fun, which is what it's supposed to be about isn't it? :)
Dan/Slack
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Hey!....no makin sense allowed here Guppy. ;-)
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Originally posted by muckmaw
This is one of the best posts I've ever read on this subject. Though I disagree with certain aspects of it, the bottom line is, you are right. THe MA is quake with WWII airplanes, much to my chagrin. Though I and many others would prefer something different, I believe it is satisfactory enough for enough players to keep the dollars rolling in at grapevine, and that's all that really matters to HTC. Perhaps AHII will be more to my tastes. Perhaps another game will. I guess I'll have to start looking.
Nodding in agreement here. JEDI, that wise sage on the WB/AGW BBS once said (in May 1999 actually) "Remember, REAL air combat wasn't FUN at all. The closer we get to REAL, the farther we'll get from FUN."
That was in response to the Historical Realists who wanted every aspect of WB to be modelled on Realism, with no concessions to gameplay of any kind. Jedi later added (and this is the key) that there is a limit to how far that principle would work in reverse - how far the game could pull away from REAL, and still get closer to FUN. In my view, and in the view of others whose posts I'm reading here, that point has already been passed in AH. It's moving further away from REAL, but as far as I and a few others are concerned, it's not moving any closer to FUN any more.
You only have to look at posts that folks have put up saying "what a blast" they had on such and such night. Analyse the scenario of what took place a little more closely, and one comes away with the impression that some people want nothing more than a fire button to pummel and to make stuff go BOOM every few seconds. I'm not saying that they're wrong to derive pleasure/satisfaction from an evening of doing that, but like you say, it's Quake with WW2 planes/GVs. It has a WW2 veneer but that is all. Fun for many, it may pull a lot of $ into HTC, but it hardly resembles WW2, and it's not what I want. "eliminate perks completely. Let anyone fly what they want to fly. Who the heck cares? "
Do that, and more than half the planes flying will be Me262. That's exactly how it was on "Jet Day" in Brand-W, when a certain end-of-term feeling set in.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I'm not saying that they're wrong to derive pleasure/satisfaction from an evening of doing that, but like you say, it's Quake with WW2 planes/GVs. It has a WW2 veneer but that is all.
Keep in mind that when I say Aces High is more like Air Quake than it is like Everquest, I'm referring to the fact that Quake is the ultimate, or at least paradigmatic, meritocracy. That's not to say that AH is merely Quake in the air -- the gameplay's more detailed than that and allows for different ways to play and enjoy oneself, but in the end the game still rewards skill over tenure.
By the same token, I don't think AH2: TOD will be exactly like Everquest in the virtual skies. It too will have its own blend of action and role playing, though ultimately I get the sense that it plans to reward those who have participated longer than others. After all, no matter how good you are, you have to start small and work your way up the ranks. That takes time.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Guppy35
..... Once again, not a surprise cause they aren't going to dive into a fight they might not survive because they don't want to lose the perks....
Take off the blinking neon perk icons and some just might. At least part of the reason they don't has to do with fear of being hunted due to that icon. Hmmm hunted doesn't do it justice...how bout gang raped...yeah that's a better description.
You have to admit, folks pay much more attention to the 'perk icons' than the non-perk rides.
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The CHog (subject of this thread) does not have an identifiable perk icon.
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Some points about the "Big-Four" and the Chog, from a previous line of thinking, by me:
"1) The Chog was doing 20~23% alone.
2) The P-51D always had a stable rate of 10% - regardless of the Chog.
3) The Spit9 and N1K2 share a total rate of 20% - this means the overall rate of those two is set at about 20%, and which plane's more used, fluctuates throughout the tours. ie) In some tours, the Spit9 does 7%, and the N1K2 does 13%. In other tours, the Spit9 might do 12%, and the N1K2 8%.
4) The La-7 saw steady but continuous increase until recently, where it blew over the 10% line.
5) The Typhoon, which claims 5%, is probably the most intersting case of them all. It remains about 5%/fifth place ever since Tour29. The top five is set since that tour, up to today. (*note: recent stats of Tour41, is also very interesting in the fact that a change of terrain, can also significantly effect plane usage. "Bigisles" no doubt, is the main reason behind the Seafire and the F6F-5 getting more used than the Typhoon!)
6) The Seafire and F6F-5 is hard to track - only within three~four tours since they appeared, the La-7 and the Fw190D-9 appeared, and then, the Chog became perked. The usage fluctuates anywhere between as low as 1% to as high as 7% - with these difficulties in consideration, a lot of guesswork has to be made in its usage levels. About 1% each, is what I estimate as the "true" figures, before the Chog became perked. All the figures above that, is a result of new planes introduced in too quick a time period. "
...
"Comparative analysis of above five points, suggest:
* Point 2) suggests that there's a stable P-51D crowd, who are uneffected by whatever may happen or whichever new plane might come around(unless it's something like a P-51H ) - probably due to its high fame, and high versatility as a MA fighter. They have no reason to falter whether or not the Chog was around.
* Point 3) reveals the fact that the N1K2 pilots are also Spit9 pilots. They too, fly nothing else. When someone gets bored with the N1K2 they take out a Spit9. Vice versa with the typical N1K2 pilot. This means the N1K2/Spit9 crowd is also set.
* Points 4), 5), and 6), reveal where the Chog crowd went. We can track the "actual" usage of the Chog as a fighter, with slight assumptions and some clever sleuthing, based on the facts in the three points above.
It's 23% impact, as previously analyzed by many, comes from its significancy as a do-it-all plane. After the Chog was perked, the Typhoon saw significant increase. A 1% plane, suddenly jumps up to about 4% immediately after it was perked. Over the tours, it stabilizes at 5%.
The significancy of the Typhoon, reveals the fact that a large share of Chog usage was due to its jabo capabilities. People who don't fly Chogs regularly, would still up a Chog when doing jabo, or when they had to fly off a carrier. Therefore, it is often misleading to see the "23%" figure and think "great, 23% of fighters in MA is the Chog" - this never happened.
From point 6), we can see how much the F6F-5 and the Seafire was increased in usage - those two planes are each about 4% in average since Tour29. Thus, over the tours, they saw total increase of 6%.
Point 4), thus, is where the secret lies. The Chog crowd, has been transformed into the La-7 crowd.
In conclusion, of the 20~23% kills achieved by the Chog at it's prime, 4% of them are from Jabo attacks. 6% was due to carrier duties. That's 10%. About 10~13% of the Chog kills, is achieved during regular, land-based, non-jabo fighter duties. "
.....
"Some of the claims of people skeptical on perking the Chog, turns out to be true: "I don't see that many Chogs to be a problem." Yes, the Chog never was 23% in "true fighter" usage. It's actual usage as a regular fighter, was 10%.
* P-51D - 10%
* Spit9+N1K2J - 10%+10%
* Chog - 10%
The "new plane", La-7, is now 10% in usage. The "Big Four" phenomenon, wasn't caused by perking the Chog.
In previous theory:
1) Supposedly the pilots of the perked planes, moved over to "next best planes" - and thus, when 1 plane was perked, the "next best planes" quickly became the new head honchos of the MA.
2) Thus, this led to the assumption that perking planes, just cause more whinings, people continuously asking to perk the best planes until every plane was perked - freedom is clasped in chains, and AH dies.
3) The whining about the "big four", was the result of the Chog being perked, and the classic case of perks decimating freedom of choice, and causing more and more whining. "
....
" The truth:
The "Big Four" did not appear suddenly. The Chog seemed to be overused only due to the fact that it was a do-it-all plane. Remove the do-it-all aspect and observe it's nature as a normal fighter, the Chog was actually doing 10%. This magic number, "10%", is also what the P-51D, Spit+N1K2 has.
We always thought in the past days, only the Chog was a scourge-terror, everywhere you run into you see only Chogs. That's how we were all brainwashed by the "20% kills" figure.
....
We never thought the P-51D, Spit9, N1K2 was a serious problem, because to us, it always seemed like:
"Yeah, the P-51D, Spit9, N1K2 is used a lot.. but never like the Chog. The Chog is the real problem - anywhere you go, you see them always. For god's sake, they claim 23%!"
In truth, the "Big Four" phenomenon - where four of the top fighters sharing about an equally high rate of usage and kills claimed - was already there.
It was always the "Big Four". After the La-7 came and Chog was perked, all the Chog pilots moved to the La-7, and formed a new "Big four". The rest three planes of the Big Four, were always as much a problem as the Chog.
The current stats of plane usage, is nothing but a reflection of what was past - The Typhoon, F6F-5, Seafire and the La-7, are direct heritage of what was once, superbly overhyped as the "Chog". "
...
" The perking of the Chog did what it was intended to do - it split some of the multi-roles the Chogs carried out alone, to different planes. However, it did not increase 'diversity' as what one would expect in normal fighter-to-fighter combat in AH.
This, is not because perking itself is wrong. It is a direct result of wrong method of perks applied - adding in a new super-plane which immediately replaced the perked one. "
...
Another interesting thing to consider is, people immediately relate to the concept "taking away a choice" when someone suggests a perk on a certain plane.
If they suggest to pull the plane out of the planeset, that'd be taking away choices. If they suggest it needs perks above what average people can easily collect and use, that's limiting choices.
But 3 perks for a cost? People are talking like 3 points on a plane will suddenly kill a plane and make P-51s or stuff inaccessible to the general public. I don't think that's true. 50~200 perks may kill motivation, but 3 points is just enough to boost motivational qualities and promote a more careful line of flying, but not high enough to feel punitive when the plane is lost.
..
More details on various thinking in the link attached at the sig below.
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The big hit taken by the f4u1c wasn't perking it - it was the weight addition.
Before the weight addition, it was easy to keep it near 300mph during fights. It's almost impossible to keep it that fast if the area is crowded.
The extra weight killed its ability to accelerate and maneuver.
HTC should remove the f4u1c perk, or the weight (but not both.) Personally, I would prefer a weight adjustment.
curly
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Originally posted by beet1e
The CHog (subject of this thread) does not have an identifiable perk icon.
Aware of that bett1e, he was speaking of perk rides in general.
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The Chog was perked in the past for its sins, and it was perked for good, but dont forget that it is still perked. So no matter wether it was perked a year ago or just yesterday, the point is that even today it is considered worth to keep perked over planes like La7. Curious, isnt it?
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"But 3 perks for a cost? People are talking like 3 points on a plane will suddenly kill a plane and make P-51s or stuff inaccessible to the general public. I don't think that's true. 50~200 perks may kill motivation, but 3 points is just enough to boost motivational qualities and promote a more careful line of flying, but not high enough to feel punitive when the plane is lost."
If 3 perks is such a nit ... then why perk it at all. I fail to believe that a 3 perk cost will motivate anybody to make another choice. If a perk cost does not really cause a "pause" when deciding what to fly, then don't perk it at all.
Also, I don't believe that we need to motivate people to be more "carefull" ... the arena is already filled with pilots that won't engage unless they have a tremendous advantage and if they miss on the engagement, they extend .... all the way home.
Instead of burning all our brain cells trying to figure out ways to make people fly different aircraft, we should be thinking of and promoting ways to encourage fights.
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Those who claim the chog was perked on whines alone dont know what they are talking about. Pyro said that he had reduced the chog eny value as low as he thought he could with out making it 0. I believe once it hit 1 and was still getting 20% of the kills he perked it.
While yes there were many whines and not all were from lw types. If Ht caved to whiners that easily we wouildnt see d900 kills, the a5 would het its supposed 12mph spped advantage, and there would be no spitfires or nikis in ah at all. Among many other things. I will pull one of toads cards if you know why the chog is perked call ht and ask him. Its been perked for longer then most of you in this thread have been in ah and has been whined about just as long. HT hasnt changed it and it doesnt look like he has changed his mind. He hasnt perked the la7, the niki, or spit or p51d.
But imho gameplay improved after the chog was perked. Atleast shortly after. Now main gameplay focusing on the building battling and war winning has displaced any improvement in gameplay. With the current gameplay the chog would certainly be used more then most of the current top 5. Its a build battlers dream machine.
The chogs weight was fixed because it was wrong. Now folks who dont like the impact of the weight adjustment (some of the ones who actually pointed out the missing weight in the first place) claim now its too heavy. But fork did accel tests and it certainly isnt the worst. Its right inline with the other hogs.
Ht has said that planes arent perked just based on performance or just on "rarity". He has his own system when deciding what to perk.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Instead of burning all our brain cells trying to figure out ways to make people fly different aircraft, we should be thinking of and promoting ways to encourage fights.
Laz figured it, Fester built it. It's done.
***********
As I side note, I'm glad to see the few "perk 'em all" posters have sadly agreed this is merely Air Quake and is probably beneath their dignity to play. It's good to have the few sages we have all in agreement.
I do hope that AH2: TOD will give them the serious roleplaying game they seek.. or whatever the heck they seek... and that they enjoy it immensely.
Me? I'm an Air Quakehead! I live (and play) for the fight. I love fights, that's why I play Air Quake.
I hope that after TOD comes out, we can get HT to leave Fester's map all the time... unless a better one for fighting comes out.
all you serious guys! Sorry Air Quake wasn't for you! Hope you find what you seek though!
Does anyone know if the callsign "Quake" is taken? I gotta go check! I know I can sell "Toad" to "AToad", the former WB Toad. He'd probably give me a year's free play for that handle!
This may work out great for EVERYONE!
Quake-a! Quake-a! Quake-a! Quake-a! Quake-a! Quake-a! Quake-a! Quake-a!
I gotta get that into a .wav file for my new Hispano sound!
What a GREAT thread this has been!
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Great post, Kweassa.
3 points is just enough to boost motivational qualities and promote a more careful line of flying, but not high enough to feel punitive when the plane is lost.
I absolutely agree with that - 101%. :)
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The reason the chog was perked was not only its insane kill #s....but its overall kills -vs- all other aircraft. The #s you quote fail to account for 2 issues.
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The reason the chog was perked was not only its insane kill #s....but its overall kills -vs- all other aircraft. The #s you quote fail to account for 2 issues. 1st of all the MA #s back then were only 1/2 to 1/3 those we see today...so in total kills it was insanely dominant. 2nd is the absolute derth of any F4U other than the chog....the D model was as popular as the c202 is today.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
"But 3 perks for a cost? People are talking like 3 points on a plane will suddenly kill a plane and make P-51s or stuff inaccessible to the general public. I don't think that's true. 50~200 perks may kill motivation, but 3 points is just enough to boost motivational qualities and promote a more careful line of flying, but not high enough to feel punitive when the plane is lost."
If 3 perks is such a nit ... then why perk it at all. I fail to believe that a 3 perk cost will motivate anybody to make another choice. If a perk cost does not really cause a "pause" when deciding what to fly, then don't perk it at all.
Also, I don't believe that we need to motivate people to be more "carefull" ... the arena is already filled with pilots that won't engage unless they have a tremendous advantage and if they miss on the engagement, they extend .... all the way home.
Instead of burning all our brain cells trying to figure out ways to make people fly different aircraft, we should be thinking of and promoting ways to encourage fights.
So it's too small, it won't make a diff, yet everyone will fly it differently?
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Originally posted by Toad
What a GREAT thread this has been!
I still think you've been drinking. :)
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Hehe, Mr. Toad. You sound like you're in Utopia. :) I guess organised, co-ordinated flight with people working together would be too much like a busman's holiday for you. ;)
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I'm just overjoyed for you Beet! You'll have ALL THAT AND MORE in TOD.
Man... you could like be a...GENERAL or something!!!!!!!!!!!
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(and then you really will be able to make people fly what you think they should fly!)
UTOPIA FOR YOU TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Been voicing my humble opinion for over three years here on this subject. IMHO the only aircraft that should be perked were the aircraft that ushered in a new era of flight.....jets and rocket powered aircraft only....but hey!...that's just my opinion. And to get worked up over what should be and not be perked is really ridiculous....after all...it's justa game :D
Why perk the ride....ya get fewer perkies for jaboing LOL and shooting down other craft anyway.
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Originally posted by aztec
Roll those baby blues all you want nobaddy, were you here for the C-Hog whinefest?
In a word...Yes. I also took the time to ask HT (before and after it was done) about perking the Chog. Bottomline, it was HT's opinion that the numbers showed that the Chog was turning AH into a 1 trick pony. This wasn't what he wanted. Frankly, I've seen a lot more whines about La7's over the years than I have Chogs. Of course, the extra weight added to the Chog has meant that it is now a good plane with great guns...instead of a great plane with great guns. Odds are, if it were unperked it would not be as popular as it was before.
Oh...btw....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
There yah go Aztec :D
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As much as I hate to stomp on this "debate":
I've added a chart to the total stats (http://www.dbstaines.com/TourStats/Totals/Totals.htm)
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MiniD.. we could kiss you, but we won't. :D
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Yup, everyone who thinks that the La7, N1k, Spit9 or P51D is getting the same percentage of kills as the Chog did in it pre-perked days, go look at Mini D's total use %age chart. The Chog got 18% of the total kills in it's prime. The current plane set doesn't have any one plane that is even close to that, so there is no doubt that none of them will be perked anytime soon...
As DMF pointed out in the stats/usage thread, the total number of kills for ALL fighters will trend upwards as more and more people play AH. It's the percentage use that is important to the perk debate...
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But.. but... but.. but....
That's the only plane in the MA!
Well, except for this one........
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_116_1065844967.jpg)
:rofl
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Eliminate perks completely. Let anyone fly what they want to fly. Who the heck cares?
All the experts who abhore the uber rides can then stroke their egos by defeating 262s in Hurricane Is, thus proving once and for all that they are AH gods, for what thats worth.
ROFLMAO, I stand not corrected.
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I have not had any personal discussions with HT regarding the perking of the C-Hog Nobaddy so can only assume your more well informed than I.
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Originally posted by Toad
I'm just overjoyed for you Beet! You'll have ALL THAT AND MORE in TOD. Man... you could like be a...GENERAL or something!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey, Great! Does that mean I'll be able to strut around with a manly side arm? I want a pair of revolvers with pearl handles, maybe with a star in the middle. And anyone not playing my way will be... erm, slapped. ;)
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Well, one could always argue that the Spit9 got 40% usage in it's prime... :D
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Originally posted by beet1e
Hey, Great! Does that mean I'll be able to strut around with a manly side arm? I want a pair of revolvers with pearl handles, maybe with a star in the middle. And anyone not playing my way will be... erm, slapped. ;)
Hmm...what was the Patton quote? Something about "only a New Orleans pimp would carry pearl handled pistols". :D
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this game is all about skill. I still don't understand some people's fixation with perking planes. the phrase "other people don't fly what I want them to fly" rings true. Perk fewer, not more planes.
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If no plane was perked, I'd fly the 262, or the tempest if the former was the only exception, all the time, under any circonstance. I'd always be 100+mph over anyone around, and always have the upper hand in firepower with just a single burst.
There would be no competition, as I could kill anything, anytime, anyway, with only a bit of concentration. Props are obsolete.
more seriously, if the 152 was not priced, I'd fly it over anything else.
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I personally dont care either way, but if anything needed a small perk, the FW 190D and the 109 G-10 would certainly rank up there. They are extremely fast prop AC and climb like a squirrel on crack-cocaine. Speed dictates the fight.
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I always thought the F4U-1C was perked because of its 2x 1,000 pound bomb capability, 8x rocket capability, and 4xHispano capability. That's a lot of ground attack potential. Plus it could be launched from anywhere - land or sea.
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4 rockets
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Originally posted by -ammo-
I personally dont care either way, but if anything needed a small perk, the FW 190D and the 109 G-10 would certainly rank up there. They are extremely fast prop AC and climb like a squirrel on crack-cocaine. Speed dictates the fight.
The faster the G10 goes, the more it compresses, and it can go very fast in a dive. That's why people still fly the G-2 and G-6 from time to time; they're slower and its easier to avoid compression with them.
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True, but they are flying it in the wrong direction, you dont dive with a plane like the G10, you climb. Of course there are a lot of variables involved, but the difference in a fight is the decisions that are made. Most guys try to dive away when they get in a tight spot.