Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zanth on October 10, 2003, 09:19:52 AM
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...or his map anyway - I had a lot of fun with this one.
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featabria rules.... I'm even getting to like fester himself a little.
lazs
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I agree lazs.
As much as it pains me to stroke Fester's already bloated ego, I have to say - his map rocks.
It focusses a little too much on driving than I'd like, but all and all this has been one of the funnest weeks in AH that I have in a long time.
WTG Fester. And thank you!
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Oh dear.. I'm agreeing with lazs.. :(
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Best map = Festerma
Best graphics = Mindinao
thanks Fester
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Great map. I'm actually motivated to fly again -- layers of rust and all. It's even fun getting shot down.
Charon
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Gotta say that Festers map is the best for gameplay. Moving the fields closer together has made the fights quicker to get too and the furballs last longer than other maps.
Thumbs up! Good job Fester!
Anyone see their K/Time go way up on this new map? Mine increased from an average of 6-8/hour to over 17/hour...makes my limited time flying much more fun!
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Gentlemen, at ease. Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.
We'll have someone along shortly to explain to us that we're not having fun.
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Toad.. you arent laughing anymore.. what happened?
Were you drunk? :D
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Fester's map reminds me so much of the fun times I had in AW. I usually don't have time to strategize. So th quicker I can get involved in a fight, th better, for me. I even got involved in some 1 vs 1, and 1 vs 2...something rare in AH lately, before this map.
Slim03
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Ya know.... the other big maps could be fixed in a jiffy. I may have suggested a way in the past to do so. Once or twice anyway.
Love to hear the big map makers explain to me again how moving the fields closer together wouldn't help gameplay or furballs or early war plane use. How did that go again?
lazs
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Look at the bright side, when the map comes up again, it should have his latest revisions. ;)
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That map is great.
HT should go back to changing maps every reset.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ya know.... the other big maps could be fixed in a jiffy. I may have suggested a way in the past to do so. Once or twice anyway.
Love to hear the big map makers explain to me again how moving the fields closer together wouldn't help gameplay or furballs or early war plane use. How did that go again?
lazs
I was just thinking the same thing Lazs (scarey thought).
All the naysayers that said that moving fields closer would be a disaster and gameplay would be ruined for all eternity, have quitely disappeared into the shadows. This map and its gameplay has injected some much needed new life into AH.
You owe Fester big time for proving your mantra ... "move the fields closer together".
<> Fester and I hope that you already are thinking about creating another one.
Also, I forgot who was the creator of "Equinox", but that map looked very promising, and I hope that he has taken notes from this experience and is making any appropriate changes to continue the ball rolling.
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Lazs, no hit on you, but i havent seen any more early war aircraft than i did before.. It's actually turned into a la7/spit arena because all the fights are on the deck.. but if that's the price we gotta pay..
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I have a big problem with Festers map, and I hope it gets fixed soon!
I dont want to wait for it to come back:D
Nice job Citfest for your hard work and thanks
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Originally posted by Rutilant
It's actually turned into a la7/spit arena because all the fights are on the deck
:confused:
What does low altitude have to do with Spits?
The Spitfire Mk IX is a high altitude fighter and is less effective at low altitude.
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I dunno, karnak, maybe beacuse all i was seeing is la7s and spits?
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ya know.... the other big maps could be fixed in a jiffy. I may have suggested a way in the past to do so. Once or twice anyway.
Love to hear the big map makers explain to me again how moving the fields closer together wouldn't help gameplay or furballs or early war plane use. How did that go again?
lazs
In a jiffy? Damn, see if wabbit will give the "source" for AKDesert. You can "jiffy" it right up. :)
curly
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Originally posted by Rutilant
I dunno, karnak, maybe beacuse all i was seeing is la7s and spits?
Yes, but low altitude has nothing to do with that. If it were high altitude you'd see even more Spits, and fewer La-7s.
The short distance between fields probably had an effect on it though.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Yes, but low altitude has nothing to do with that. If it were high altitude you'd see even more Spits, and fewer La-7s.
The short distance between fields probably had an effect on it though.
Same difference. Less distance between fields, less time to climb.
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Yep,
My father was talking on the phone about how great the new AH map was.
Saying that he's having the most fun EVER in AH.
:cool:
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Very popular map so far. Like a travelling chess set without Kings to worry about, and a five second interval between moves. Would have been popular with the kids at my school. :D
Note - travelling chess set - so the squares can be closer together. :lol
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Originally posted by beet1e
Very popular map so far. Like a travelling chess set without Kings to worry about, and a five second interval between moves. Would have been popular with the kids at my school. :D
Note - travelling chess set - so the squares can be closer together. :lol
don't feel bad, when you're a general in ToD, people will admire your mad skillz at shooting down ai planes.
:D
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Yep... I owe fester for proving I was right.... If I ever doubted that I was right it would be very.... what's that chick word? "reaffirming"
Iron... I'll tell ya how or fester can... just get rid of all the fields in the back areas and move em forward. move em all closer together... maybe change to a greener shade of brownish yellow.
But... I would like to thank fester more for the effort and the improved gameplay than for any proof of a theory..
Just like I tell all my ex's.... agree with me now and save yourself a lot of grief latter on.
or... agree with rut/jakal/hubert/beetle and... well... I think you can see where that would lead eh?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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geeze shane.... and they say I'm mean spirited... it was funny as hell tho.
lazs
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Shane, Laz... show some compassion.
Beet's probably just struggling with his inner self, trying to come to grips with the fact that he had more fun on Fester just like everyone else.
It's gotta be tough. The roiling, boiling internal struggle to either admit you've been totally and incredibly mistaken versus staying in denial and pretending that boredom is actually fun.
I hope the poor guy doesn't get an ulcer or something.
Be charitable.. he's probably going through a tough process here.
:rofl
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Originally posted by lazs2
Yep... I owe fester for proving I was right.... If I ever doubted that I was right it would be very.... what's that chick word? "reaffirming"
Iron... I'll tell ya how or fester can... just get rid of all the fields in the back areas and move em forward. move em all closer together... maybe change to a greener shade of brownish yellow.
But... I would like to thank fester more for the effort and the improved gameplay than for any proof of a theory..
Just like I tell all my ex's.... agree with me now and save yourself a lot of grief latter on.
or... agree with rut/jakal/hubert/beetle and... well... I think you can see where that would lead eh?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
You seem rather fixated on us, lazs.. Oh well, can't teach an old dog new tricks i suppose. :D
Lazs a one trick pony?
How long that horse been dead?
Lazs debating me even though i agree that this map is fun?
One track mind?
Nahhhhhhh. ;)
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Originally posted by Rutilant
Lazs, no hit on you, but i havent seen any more early war aircraft than i did before.. It's actually turned into a la7/spit arena because all the fights are on the deck.. but if that's the price we gotta pay..
After the first time I played on Fester's map, I started taking up my Spitfire MK Ia again. Even though the map is gone, I'm still flying it! :)
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Ok This map is good for furball for all turnfighter in the game like Spit V, Zerro, for low level fighters like La 7 but...............
I didn't like it...... Why?
It is absloutly terrible map for energy fighters like 109g10, P51D, P47D30, 190D9 etc. You just can't get enoght altitude or you should takoff from rear bases - and anyway - there always will be someone that will go far after the boundary and will try to catch you. Some Spit 5 diving on my 109g10. Most of the times energy fighters should or disangage or to be shut down. The fight moved too low to 5-10k and when you try enter the fight someone else dives on you. If you want to stay high you just almost not see fights there. If go low .... it is not tactics for energy fighters. If 109g10 or P51D enters furrball it is hard to suirvive. No tactical engagment.
Why? The bases too too close - yes it is fan for furballs but it not gives you to plan good tactical egagment. the distances between fields are 10-15 miles when the distanses in trinity or AKdessert or the rest are 25-30 miles. This map better of CT not main arena. It should be balansed for both turnfighters and energy fighters.
In my opinion the best terrain is Baltic - it both good for low level fighters and high energy fighter. It has no high ureal walls (30-35k) like in trinity. Is is not all high alt like AK dessert. Not too much water and not too far bases like BigIsles. And you should not fly hours to get to enemy HQs.
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Originally posted by artik
Why? The bases too too close - yes it is fan for furballs but it not gives you to plan good tactical egagment. the distances between fields are 10-15 miles when the distanses in trinity or AKdessert or the rest are 25-30 miles. This map better of CT not main arena. It should be balansed for both turnfighters and energy fighters.
uhhhhh, so take off at a base 25-30 miles behind the front line base...
duh.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
i had no plms at all finding action at various alts from 25k down to the deck.
if anything, the closer bases favor the e-fighter's in that they don't have to run so far to friendly ack/help.
no plms getting kills in the "e-fighters" such as a pony.
Model type Kills In Kills Of
P-51D 186 66
and considering the impact of HQ damage, yes, one *should* fly hours to hit it. and die 30 secs before drop from a horde of angry 163's. :rofl
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Fester's map manages to bring out the best in AH- close range fields , short flying distances , GV'S GET A LOT OF ACTION .
As one can read from the post : most of us LOVE the map.
It's the best map ....
Doc:)
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"It is absloutly terrible map for energy fighters like 109g10, P51D, P47D30, 190D9 etc. You just can't get enoght altitude or you should takoff from rear bases - and anyway - there always will be someone that will go far after the boundary and will try to catch you. Some Spit 5 diving on my 109g10. Most of the times energy fighters should or disangage or to be shut down. The fight moved too low to 5-10k and when you try enter the fight someone else dives on you. If you want to stay high you just almost not see fights there. If go low .... it is not tactics for energy fighters. If 109g10 or P51D enters furrball it is hard to suirvive. No tactical engagment."
You have got to be chitting me !!!
A 109 pilot pissin' and moanin' about being bounced ... this is a classic !!!
Artik ... step out of the leather panties and try something more furry the next time FesterMA is up.
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wah wah everyones having to much fun flying the way they want to and no one will play with me the way I want them to when I climb high and bounce low fighters I get bounced by higher fighters WWHWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!! they all turn so fast and I cant hit them whaaaaahh!!!!
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any map that is bad for guys who can't succeed in anything but a dee9 or pee 51 is good for the rest of us...
the guys who want things so spread out that they get multiple passes on low slow early/mid war planes with no interferance and with no skill.... well... about time they had learn a little. This guys post proves what we all knew all along... the large maps with far fields are for the unskilled and those who would take advantage of late war ac in an anthing goes arena.
So jakal.... you admit that you were wrong all along then? No... don't bother... everyone who didn't know does by now anyway..
since you like to quote me so much... from now on... whenever you are going to write something stupid (whenever you are gonna write)... send it to me personaly and I will correct it... much as you have done with my quotes. difference is... I will have permission and I will improve your post. People will think you got.... well.... less dumb.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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I gotta say it. Artik's post is one for the Hall of Fame. Without a single doubt.:rofl
"Some Spit 5 diving on my 109g10."
Oh the horror! The indignity! The brutal UNFAIRNESS of it all!
To actually have to shoulder a little risk in a fight rather than just be an untouchable executioner.
My soul cries along with him in his agony; except of course that my soul is crying tears of laughter.
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and so begins the new kind of map whine...congragulations fester...
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Last week was a biatch so I got on twice and the "net" wasn't cooperating. It must have been a blast.
One benifit is the possible spillover I saw yesterday on trinity. With all these people rediscovering the fun of the "fight" on festers map I found alot more people "fighting" yesterday rather than porking.
Theres hope.
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lmfao Lazs and Toad.. you guys cracked me da fek up! hehehehehe
lmao a high spit5 diving on a g10.. lol lol
Beetle and crowd will never like Fester's map for obvious reasons...
lmao .. o ya.. Shane and Beetle's ai kills.. hehe toooooooo damn funny
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Originally posted by lazs2
Iron... I'll tell ya how or fester can... just get rid of all the fields in the back areas and move em forward. move em all closer together... maybe change to a greener shade of brownish yellow.
How come folks keep confusin' me 'n Curly for each other? We look nothing alike and Curly's old enough to be...... my older brother. ;)
or Lazs younger brother :p
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Originally posted by artik
Ok This map is good for furball for all turnfighter in the game like Spit V, Zerro, for low level fighters like La 7 but...............
I didn't like it...... Why?
It is absloutly terrible map for energy fighters like 109g10, P51D, P47D30, 190D9 etc. You just can't get enoght altitude or you should takoff from rear bases - and anyway - there always will be someone that will go far after the boundary and will try to catch you.
On the contrary, I've had one of my personal best weeks flying 190's on FesterMA. Low furballs are this 190 pilot's dream. Hell, I've even been cleaning up in a 110.
Fw 190A-5 55/7
Fw 190A-8 29/1
Fw 190D-9 83/9
Bf 110G-2 35/3
FesterMA is one of the best maps for 190 pilots, along with the small maps. I'd assume it's the same for P-51's and other such planes.
And I didn't take off from rear bases, either. Just up from a frontline base and climb away a bit before you wade back in.
My only beef is that no bases (21 excluded) are very high-alt... I'd love to see a map that had battles between two adjacent 10k bases... get the Lala crowd out of their comfort zone and give some of the high-alt fighters a real chance to shine.
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it takes the jug at 2000fpm average 5 minutes to Climb to 10k
another 6.7 minutes to 20k an average 1500fpm.
that is a total of 11.7 minutes to get a jug to 20k.
going 3 miles a minute at about 175mph takes 35 miles with no wind.
just some stats for perspective on difference betwen a 10k base and a 0k base on time to climb advantages. its a matter of 5 minutes. a g10 will be at 20k from the deck in 6 minutes and negates this advantage of the p47 upping from a 10k base ussually.
the problem with high alt fighter vs fighter fights is nothin is keeping anyone from diving low. what took 11 minutes to gain can be lost in 30 seconds and I know I ussually loose that alt quickly once im in a fight if i climb that high.
the only way to truely get a running battle at high altitude is with 5-6 players in buff formations for the fighters to defend and the fighters to attack. the primary duty of the p47 and p51 was high alt escort of buffs.
back to the basic problem... how do you make flying buffs in groups more fun for players?
even once the buffs get above 20k its still a long boring trip to the target and when a fighter can kill 3 buffs regularly in one pass it isnt fun without heavy escort and large numbers of players in buffs.
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Someone get Pizza Map a blind fold and a cigerette...
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Once upon a time Aces High was about air combat.
Now it's just Quake with wings.
Everybody's attention span has dropped to the point where they can't have fun if it takes more than 30 seconds to find a fight? Gotta have a map where the fields are within sight of one another before the furballers stop whining? Next we'll need air starts to keep the vocal few quiet...
The majority of players are stuck in the fly-till-you-die-grab-another-rinse-and-repeat washing machine mind set and maps with such close fields as FMA just encourage this style. The current MA environment has completely removed any semblance of realism from the gameplay and turned it into a insta-respawn frag fest. Thrown into the bargain is the fact that anyone who laments this is shouted down by the A.D.D. stricken furballer hordes.
Flame away, furballers, flame away. I don't like your style of play but I can understand that you do, I don't expect anyone else to fly my way unless they want to. It's a pity that none of you can show the fly-to-get-kills-and-survive players or strat minded players the same respect.
I personally don't usually care what map is online at any given time as long as I can blow stuff up but I have found that I don't enjoy the gameplay that FMA encourages.
My 2 cents. Spend it however you like.
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Originally posted by Blue Mako
Once upon a time Aces High was about air combat.
Now it's just Quake with wings.
Everybody's attention span has dropped to the point where they can't have fun if it takes more than 30 seconds to find a fight? Gotta have a map where the fields are within sight of one another before the furballers stop whining? Next we'll need air starts to keep the vocal few quiet...
The majority of players are stuck in the fly-till-you-die-grab-another-rinse-and-repeat washing machine mind set and maps with such close fields as FMA just encourage this style. The current MA environment has completely removed any semblance of realism from the gameplay and turned it into a insta-respawn frag fest. Thrown into the bargain is the fact that anyone who laments this is shouted down by the A.D.D. stricken furballer hordes.
Flame away, furballers, flame away. I don't like your style of play but I can understand that you do, I don't expect anyone else to fly my way unless they want to. It's a pity that none of you can show the fly-to-get-kills-and-survive players or strat minded players the same respect.
I personally don't usually care what map is online at any given time as long as I can blow stuff up but I have found that I don't enjoy the gameplay that FMA encourages.
My 2 cents. Spend it however you like.
AMEN!!
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Mako, you may disagree of course, but I think most of those "Air Quake" types, like myself, feel that there is ONE big map... ONE.. that currently provides good action.
You don't see too much praise of Big Isles or AKDesert by those of us that are ecstatic about FesterMA. A bit for Trinity, but that praise mostly focuses on the improvement brought about by NB's adding more CV's and changing V fields to A fields.
I don't have disdain for the makers of those other maps. They built what they thought would be a good map. I salute them for the effort. Yet, as Fester points out, every map has lessons for those that would build the next map. Fester did a fine job of making an action map for good fights. Even the GV guys sing its praises.
It should be noted that all the "missions" and flying styles that are/were available to YOU on other MA maps are still present on Festers map.
So where's your beef? You can still fly your way.
Is the problem what Laz so often points out? Are you unhappy that Fester's map doesn't channel other players into gameplay into the areas YOU particularly favor?
Well, amigo.. there's a large group of folks that feel that way about Big Isles especially, AKD and to a lesser extent Trinity.
What goes round, comes round. At long last.
I personally detest Big Isles, dislike AKD and tolerate Trinity (the CV fites are decent while they last). So I'll rejoice when FesterMA is up and go to the CT or DA or work on the honey-dew list when I can't find something interesting to do in the MA when the "poor" maps are up. When Fester's up, I plan to maximize my play time.
Looks like you and those who think like you do will get a turn to experience this feeling now for at least one week of whatever the rotation turns out to be. My condolences.
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Well said, Blue Mako. My thoughts entirely. LOVED the washing machine comment. :lol
Originally posted by Toad
So where's your beef? You can still fly your way.
Is the problem what Laz so often points out? Are you unhappy that Fester's map doesn't channel other players into gameplay into the areas YOU particularly favor?
ALL of that applies to the FURBALLER whines on the Pizza and other large maps.
So where's your beef with the larger maps? You can still fly your way - on pizza and other large maps. Are you unhappy that the large maps don't channel other players into gameplay into the areas YOU particularly favour?
Bottom line - each of us has a different interpretation of what is "fun" and each of us finds his fun on different maps. Personally, I would rather have a 20 minute sortie in which I got 3 well earned kills (with no interlopers) than a 10 minute sortie in which I got 10 vulches. And Fester's map is all about 10 kill vulch sorties. I don't think I'm alone in noticing that the folks praising FesterMA do so in terms of "number of kills" and/or kills per hour - but those are stats which arise primarily from vulching. If that's your fun, then enjoy when you can.
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The big problem of FestersMA - there are a lot of furballs - yes it is funny to get 2-3 kills in one fight and then..... die.
The problem that there are players that fly-to-get-kills-and-survive. An all this big furballs not always let you do this.
Most of players in MA not so interested in landing - they prefere to get kills - fun - furball and then take other plane.
But if you want to make kills and stay alive.... Only really good pilots can do this. If I see furball I not enter it unless I have good energy advantage. When after few passes I loose some energy I disangage to grab alt and come back. It takes more time to get kills but you stay alive. At FastersMA the style was only furballs for low level fighters like Spit 5. You can do some energy fight but.... It wasn't really something good.
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Originally posted by lazs2
This guys post proves what we all knew all along... the large maps with far fields are for the unskilled
I guess the REAL pilots of WW2 were all just unskilled dweebs then. They had to fly considerably more than 2 minutes to get to the "action". BTW, WW2 was a war that occurred during the last century. It is rumoured that events in that war led to the creation of this game...
...Oh wait, this *game* doesn't have anything to do with WW2 any more, as Blue Mako reminded us.
Never mind.
Quotes from my earlier thread, worth repeating.
I admit I vulch, and I do it well.
lots of good vulches!
Good flights, plus good vulching
it just seems to be mass vulch and roll to the next base sessions.
Mob mentality is taken to the nth degree on this map.
Supreme excellence consists of a good vulch.
He's right, it is a huge vulch fest but I had fun doing so. Im afraid it may wear off soon if you play enough.
Gotta say though the Quake style furballing thing gets old pretty quickly for me and this map seem to encourage it even more than the others
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Originally posted by artik
But if you want to make kills and stay alive.... Only really good pilots can do this.
big honking !!
:rofl
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No, Beet1e; you simply don't know what you're talking about. That has, however, been pointed out to you many times before.
The furballers cannot fly "their" way on the large maps due to the change HT made to fuel replenishment. When fuel is knocked to 25% on Big Isles (especially Big Isles), AKD and to a lesser extent (since NB wisely added CV's and changed some V's to A's) it pretty much eliminates the "fun" planes for furballing. There's simply not enough fuel to travel to a fight, fight and then return.
And none of us are going to fly 10+ goon sorties to bring it to 50%. We'll leave that to you "war winners". Personally, I either go to the CT (same as I do when "night" falls), go to the DA or just shut off the computer. It's not worth the hassle.
Point two is that furballing doesn't impact the "war winners" game at all. You could have 200 players furballing at some point on the map and the other 300 could still do serious strateegery and win wars and have big important resets and stuff.
The converse is not true. Once the fuel is down, furballing is extremely difficult on the big maps and not worth the inordinate time it takes to replenish. Face it, the difficulty in porking fuel is minimal compared to the difficulty in replenishment. It's way out of balance.
So now at last we have a good fighting map. Too bad you don't like it. May I suggest the CT or the DA?
As far as your interpretation of fun, you are much more likely to find that situation in the CT. I'm amazed you aren't a CT regular already. Perhaps this will force you to discover that what you desire already exists in another AH arena.
Oh.. for those of you that think you can't land kills on Fester's map... it once again just shows you don't know what you're talking about.
It's far EASIER to land kills on Fester's map than any of the other Big Maps. I'm getting far fewer vultches as well because folks will actually come out of the ack to fight midway between fields.
Landing 4-5 kills is far more routine for me on FesterMA. Please excuse me for copying Beet1e's posting style, but I recently landed had a 4-kill. Came out a 5k, had a SpitIX dive on me from the 12, killed him in the second turn. Had an La-7 dive on me as the Spit fight ended, dove down spiraling and reversing. Foolishly he stayed in the fight down at ground level, killed him on the second turn. Took hits from a N1K as this fight ended, with him boiling up my 6; reversed him and killed him as a second N1k screamed in from the right side. This one took about 4 turns before he goofed going into the vertical. I slunk home in the weeds with low ammo.
This type of think is much more common for me now. It's far, far tougher to get home from fights in early war planes on the other Big Maps.
I landed way more kills on Fester than I do on any other Big Map we have.
But hey... stay up there in the stratosphere and win the war... nothings stopping you.
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beetle... most of the so called furballers get more kills between deaths than your so called "survivors"... The survivors are really just hiding thier lack of skill by flying the plane with the biggest advantage in an untouchable way... they have mistaken patience for skill.
the difference between a furball friendly map and one that is not is that the furball friendly map doesn't force any type of gameplay.... it allows all types. the other end of that is that the big maps that aren't furball friendly force gameplay... they make furballs impossible...
If people aren't flying the way you like on festabria it is because they had a choice and they rejected your style... It means they never enjoyed it.
And.... I am not here to pretend to re-enact WWII... I do not want to fly for maybe a year without every firing at another plane. I do not want to fly for hours a sortie and have nothing but a sore butt to show for it. I don't want to be too cold or too hot.
lazs
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Speaking from experiance Mako , without the furballers you could , in theory fly for hours and never get a kill:)
When that was all I was able to do my best meat was screaming thru the pile-up.
Festers map is a veritable smorg for B&Z. Bombers are probably safer now cause no one is up there. GV's have more than enuf action.
Furballers are happy , hell they are even defending bases now. They can easily up from a rear base and fly over to defend.
The only player I see not liking this is the fuel porker cause his efforts just don't mean as much:)
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A great map, great fun and guess what? When I wanted to fly high and make it home alive I started from a rear base, got some alt, did my thing and then beat feet. Managed to do some hi-alt bombing and some low alt furballing. Got a chance for some rockin' tank battles and several base captures. To me, at least, it seemed the best of all worlds. I personally can't see the harm in that.
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Mr. Toad,
I have people who are in complete agreement with me, and there are people who want exactly what I want out of this *game*. So you're either wrong, or there are a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about, or maybe you don't know what you're talking about. You see the spacing of the fields does not "cause" fuel porkage. In fact fuel porkage is more likely where the fields are not far apart because SFP can auger in and be back on station with another load of ord within about 3 minutes. With further to fly, our friend with attention deficit disorder will soon get bored with that. As a matter of fact, a week ago on FMA (the only chance I had to sit down and play for a few hours) all the Rook front line bases had had their fuel porked - that's why I logged off. I very rarely saw fuel porkage on the pizza map, or if a field was porked, there was another field with fuel @ 125% equidistant from the target area.
Yes I do like the CT from time to time, but the numbers are low in Euro hours.
Lazs, I know what you're saying about guys flying the plane with the biggest advantage etc. I call that flying the easymode planes, and people do that because they don't have to spend a lot of time learning ACM (attention deficit disorder coming into play again) and the P51/la7/spit subset is... well, easy. That's why I never fly 'em. Seal clubbing is not my bag. Even the G10 has a bit of an uberity tag, and that's why I've been trying the G6/G2/F4 etc. instead.
I don't agree that furballs are impossible on the big maps. I have films and screen shots which show furballs taking place. Maybe we don't agree on what a furball actually is: Can you give me a dictionary definition? Or maybe film one of your sorties and post the film here? That would help clear it up.
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All the people in complete agreement with you can still do all the things they love to do on Fester. What bugs the living doo-dah out of you and those agree-ers is that now not everyone has to play with them. Just like Laz points out.
You're totally lost on the fuel porking. What FesterMA means is that fuel porking, easy or hard, doesn't matter to the furballer now, as Sax points out. Pork with gay abandon, as you like to say. It no longer matters for those seeking just the quick fight... because the fights the thing and "winning the war" isn't. Now, we've got one map that ALWAYS lets us find a quick fight. Thank Cod, at long last.
But, hey.... good news for your and yours too! You can still bomb those fuel toolsheds all you like. We'll have enough gas to take our C-205 or F4F to the fight and back with a few kills on board. We don't have enough gas to conquer the world and win the war... but then we never wanted to do that anyway.
Perfect solution. ;)
Enjoy!
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Mr. Toad - thank you for your prompt response- always good to hear from you, whether or not you know what you're talking about. ;)
I see what you're saying about fuel porkage having a reduced effect nowadays; Perhaps the SFP hadn't realised that as early as Monday of last week when I found all my front line bases fuel porked.
I think we need to wait till everyone has put in more time on this map before we can discuss it further.
But based on what I have seen to date, Blue Mako was right on the money with his game play assessment.
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Well, moving the fields closer together certainly seems to have placated the furballers and provided a good time for most.
There is plenty of fun to be had on this map. I should also note, I've not seen a problem with fuel porking...well...no more than usual anyway.
The one thing I WAS hoping to see, but have not yet, is a furball with some early or Midwar planes. This part of the Lazs prophecy simply has not come to pass.
I think everyone can agree the furballs are dominated as always by the same aircraft, regardless of the map.
Still, Lazs and company have been proven correct to date on field placement.
The only flaw I can really find with this map is the lack of a role for level bombers, though I don't fault Fester for that. This is simply a mechanic of the gamplay set up in grapevine.
Utopia would be putting level bombers back in the game, and getting more airplane diversity.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I guess the REAL pilots of WW2 were all just unskilled dweebs then. They had to fly considerably more than 2 minutes to get to the "action". BTW, WW2 was a war that occurred during the last century. It is rumoured that events in that war led to the creation of this game...
...Oh wait, this *game* doesn't have anything to do with WW2 any more, as Blue Mako reminded us.
Never mind.
In my opinion, the problem with "REAL" WW2 air combat is that, well, it just isn't any fun. I don't want to fly around for half an hour in faiiled hope of seeing an enemy plane. Instead, I want to know that if I fly for five minutes in a particular direction, there will be plenty of red icons for me to target. Admittedly, it is easier to get irrecoverably sucked into massive furballs when one misjudges the ebb and flow of the fight (e.g., getting low and slow with 7 SpitNikLaLas on my high six), but avoiding that danger is part of the fun and challenge. I like to furball AND land my kills.
After playing other (supposedly) more "realistic" air combat sims (i.e., IL2), it seems to me that AH was designed with certain (excellent, IMHO) gameplay concessions in order to promote dogfighting (e.g., view system, gun lethality, etc.). In my opinion, furballing against live humans is just about the best gaming experience there is. For me, it's not about "realism," it's about the FIGHT and getting better at it. And as far as I can tell, the only way to get better is to throw yourself into the fray and put your virtual life at risk. (When I get owned in my Spit V by a P47, I recognize that I lost to someone who is considerably more skilled than me and I try to learn from the experience. For me, this is part of the fun.) Throwing myself into a fight beyond the point of no return, getting some kills, and somehow making it home is just about as good as it gets for me on a PC. But, on occassion, I want a more "realistic," mission-type experience, so I load up IL2 (it looks much better, to boot).
In sum, I think that it is a mistake to try to force AH to be something that it likely was never intended to be. (Nonetheless, if you would rather cherry pick or blow stuff up than dogfight, I don't see why you can't successfully do that on the new map. Folks like me, on the other hand, cannot find fights quickly and consistently on some of the other maps, most notably Big Isles.)
Just my $0.02,
JNOV
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Originally posted by artik
The big problem of FestersMA - there are a lot of furballs - yes it is funny to get 2-3 kills in one fight and then..... die.
The problem that there are players that fly-to-get-kills-and-survive. An all this big furballs not always let you do this.
Most of players in MA not so interested in landing - they prefere to get kills - fun - furball and then take other plane.
But if you want to make kills and stay alive.... Only really good pilots can do this. If I see furball I not enter it unless I have good energy advantage. When after few passes I loose some energy I disangage to grab alt and come back. It takes more time to get kills but you stay alive. At FastersMA the style was only furballs for low level fighters like Spit 5. You can do some energy fight but.... It wasn't really something good.
Translation ...
I can't fly with impunity and cherry-pick unmolested. There are so many people participating in the furball, that when I try to cherry-pick and miss, I can't extend horizontally or go vertical without running into some guy that will shoot me down.
Your not playing the type of game that I want, and I want it to stop now !!!
As far as furballers not wanting to "survive" ... you have no clue !!!
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"I don't think I'm alone in noticing that the folks praising FesterMA do so in terms of "number of kills" and/or kills per hour - but those are stats which arise primarily from vulching. If that's your fun, then enjoy when you can."
Again beet1e pulls out the "broad brush" and takes a big swipe.
Most of the "furballers" that participate in these threads and have been requesting the likes of the FesterMA map are not into vulching. The stats (you can check mine) are for the most part Air-2-Air stats.
You see ... "vulching" is not "the fight", so that is not what we seek. Those that are vulching on FesterMA are the same ones that seek vulching opportunities on all maps.
I do have to admit that if the furball gets pushed over a field, and someone wants to up ... I will ... umm ... shoot him down.
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"Oh wait, this *game* doesn't have anything to do with WW2 any more, as Blue Mako reminded us."
Then I guess you and Blue Make will have tons of fun when AH II : TOD is available. Maybe you two can wing together and chat while trying to find something to do.
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Furballs are completely strat driven. They start when a plane goes to attack another field and meets some resistance half way, and begins fighting. Fighters start to pile up and viola, a furball is born. THAT'S when you have people with rediculously short attention spans upping with the soul purpose of fighting and hopefully getting thier name in lights. The furball is just a by-product of strat, and if the furball was the reason for people originally flying over to an enemy base, there wouldn't be vulching. All the furballers would keep a safe distance fro the field to get a fair fight.. right?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Then I guess you and Blue Make will have tons of fun when AH II : TOD is available. Maybe you two can wing together and chat while trying to find something to do.
yes, they can plot the best way to use their mad skillz to take on those nasty AI planes and congratulate each other for their skill in dispatching them afterwards and bask in the adulation of the AI buff drones they've helped get to bomb a target that has no impact on anything being a set piece to set piece game.
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Unlike you, Shane, we give a watermelon about historical WW2 combat.. ;)
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Originally posted by Rutilant
Unlike you, Shane, we give a watermelon about historical WW2 combat.. ;)
so that explains why i see you (all) in the CT so much.
:rolleyes:
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The CT is nothing more than the MA with a rolling planeset, or a glorified DA.. no incentive to capture fields.. strat is disabled..
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Originally posted by Rutilant
The CT is nothing more than the MA with a rolling planeset, or a glrofied DA.. no incentive to capture fields.. strat is disabled.. glorified DA
but, but... you get the historical matchups! and there are those like minded seals who arp like you do there.
you think there's gonna be field capture or impact on the strat bomb runs in ToD? but you can bet it'll be a rolling planeset (once they get enough planes to roll with).
an arena is what people make it. come to the CT, bring your elite historical buddies with you and show me you actually know how to run a mission of some sort - and do it properly.
yah, right, as if, lol.....
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Originally posted by Shane
an arena is what people make it. come to the CT, bring your elite historical buddies with you and show me you actually know how to run a mission of some sort - and do it properly.
yah, right, as if, lol.....
I'de like to see you do that very thing, But no, if it requires a bigger attention span than what's needed for CounterStrike or quake it's a nono, right?
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Originally posted by Rutilant
I'de like to see you do that very thing, But no, if it requires a bigger attention span than what's needed for CounterStrike or quake it's a nono, right?
i have done so. you'd be surprised at how well i can effectively escort and stay on task, as well as tasking other elements of the mission. when i want to.
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As one who dabbles in both furballing and flying to live, I cannot begin to fathom why everyone isn't thrilled w/ Fester's map.
I realize that my "fly to survive" style isn't really as literal as Mako's and others(I rarely take my "fight to survive" plane over 10-12k these days, but I can spot the Blue Mako types in their 20-25k ponies/D9s/G10s)
This map is a furballer's dream fulfilled.
This map is a BnZ'ers paradise. What more is there to ask for than constant fights that provide endless targets and possibilities?
I can see why strat weenies would hate the Fester map, they can no longer squelch the fun of others by sinking cv's and porking fuel. But let's face it, the strat weenies that complain the most about Fester are sick minded bastards who get their enjoyment from ruining the fun of others. Hear their laments about Festerland, and rejoice.
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Shane, help me understand something here.. Do you feel people that would enjoy the TOD style of gameplay are less legitimate, less important, or inferior to you?
If so, why do you feel the overwelming urge to criticize and judge one's gameplay preference?
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Originally posted by Steve
I can see why strat weenies would hate the Fester map, they can no longer squelch the fun of others by sinking cv's and porking fuel. But let's face it, the strat weenies that complain the most about Fester are sick minded bastards who get their enjoyment from ruining the fun of others. Hear their laments about Festerland, and rejoice.
Is it so hard for people to fathom that peole may just enjoy bombing?
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Yah, it is amazing to me that all these dedicated WWII historical aviation afficianados can't seem to find the CT.
After all, that was one of the specific purposes and goals of the CT; historical matchups in an especially dedicated arena run by the players not the HTC management team.
Yet, gosh... all these dedicated WWII historical aviation afficianados can't seem to find it.
And as for "low numbers", well, gosh.. if the all these dedicated WWII historical aviation afficianados were so numerous in the player population, the numbers wouldn't be low would they? All those afficianados would be in the CT, not the MA.
:lol
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Originally posted by Rutilant
Shane, help me understand something here.. Do you feel people that would enjoy the TOD style of gameplay are less legitimate, less important, or inferior to you?
If so, why do you feel the overwelming urge to criticize and judge one's gameplay preference?
not at all... and ToD is gonna be the place to enjoy it. CT is too, to an extent, as are scenarios and events; it even has it's place in the MA. however... i think it's the fact that i see guys like *you* and beet1e slamming what you think is inferior style of gameplay. i love knocking people off high horses.
i love the smell of burning hypocricy in the morning, mr-perk-the-palnes-i-can't-fly-well-or-get-shot-down-by-them-too-often-or-there's-too-many-of-them-in-the-skies.
let he without sin cast the first flame and all that...
festerMA is a damn fine map that allows many types of game play for many types of game players. the same can't be said for certain other maps.
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Toad seems to be in a good mood today..
Originally posted by Rutilant
The CT is nothing more than the MA with a rolling planeset, or a glorified DA.. no incentive to capture fields.. strat is disabled..
You see, there's no real "war" there. It's just a big furball arena.
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Steve, you have nearly become one with the Dark Side of AH. :)
Don't really miss the old style do ya? Having fun does that to people.
In time you'll find the climb to 10k wastes about 5k of climb. ;)
Welcome home! I look forward to tangling with you; the FM2 is your slow plane of choice now?
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Originally posted by Shane
let he without sin cast the first flame and all that...
Originally posted by Shane
yes, they can plot the best way to use their mad skillz to take on those nasty AI planes and congratulate each other for their skill in dispatching them afterwards and bask in the adulation of the AI buff drones they've helped get to bomb a target that has no impact on anything being a set piece to set piece game.
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Originally posted by Rutilant
You see, there's no real "war" there. It's just a big furball arena.
and there's one in the MA?
however, resetting the map porks the planeset so it's severely frowned upon. however, nothing to stop you from taking bases right down to the next to last one and "winning" the "war."
might i suggest you try Risk online?
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Originally posted by Shane
and there's one in the MA?
however, resetting the map porks the planeset so it's severely frowned upon. however, nothing to stop you from taking bases right down to the next to last one and "winning" the "war."
might i suggest you try Risk online?
I never advocated the MA at all. I'm merely defending the soon to be (in three YEARS) TOD and my prefered style of play.
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Originally posted by Rutilant
It's actually turned into a la7/spit arena because all the fights are on the deck..
hey, i'm only like the umpteenth stone thrower in this little debate.
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"Unlike you, Shane, we give a watermelon about historical WW2 combat.. "
Nice try RUTT ... :rofl
"Is it so hard for people to fathom that peole may just enjoy bombing?"
Then up a bomber and go for it ... thats the beauty of AH.
What in FesterMA is preventing that ? ... enlighten me/us.
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Could that really be called a flame? I was just stating an observation.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
"Unlike you, Shane, we give a watermelon about historical WW2 combat.. "
Nice try RUTT ... :rofl
"Is it so hard for people to fathom that peole may just enjoy bombing?"
Then up a bomber and go for it ... thats the beauty of AH.
What in FesterMA is preventing that ? ... enlighten me/us.
Leave me out of what other people said in this thread, because i didn't say em.
The only thing i recall saying about this map is that there are a bunch of spits and la7s around.
And i do up bombers quite frequently.. :)
RUTT, coming to pork a field near you.
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What i want to get out of the TOD is something like this..
(http://locke.artamir.org/B17_final.jpg)
Where i can look out my window and feel like i'm part of a huge buff formation..
I want.. immersion.
the MA and CT just don't offer that.
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Originally posted by Rutilant
Where i can look out my window and feel like i'm part of a huge buff formation..
I want.. immersion.
the MA and CT just don't offer that.
join the MAW.
:D
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Originally posted by Rutilant
Leave me out of what other people said in this thread, because i didn't say em.
The only thing i recall saying about this map is that there are a bunch of spits and la7s around.
And i do up bombers quite frequently.. :)
RUTT, coming to pork a field near you.
If you go back a few posts, you will see that those quotes are sourced from your posts ... sooooo ... you did say them.
Pork away ... knock yourself out.
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Originally posted by Shane
join the MAW.
:D
I'de be right up there with ShaneMAW as an escort huh? :eek:
RuttMAW.. Hmmm.. :lol
Mr. Shane, it was fun butting heads, but i really shouldnt dedicate any more of my life to the AH BB than i already do.
Call ya a furball dweeb later! :)
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Rutt, I consider those who enjoy bombing and those who will pork only the fuel of all the front line bases for miles around to be two very diiferent groups of people; the former doing their thing for enjoyment, the latter doing their thing for the sick pleasure of ruining others'.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
If you go back a few posts, you will see that those quotes are sourced from your posts ... sooooo ... you did say them.
Pork away ... knock yourself out.
I was referring to the "what is festerMA doing to prevent that" or something.. I assumed you assumed i couldnt up buffs.
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Originally posted by Steve
Rutt, I consider those who enjoy bombing and those who will pork only the fuel of all the front line bases for miles around to be two very diiferent groups of people; the former doing their thing for enjoyment, the latter doing their thing for the sick pleasure of ruining others'.
I'm the kind that makes everyone scream "HQ RAIDER!!!!!" just before i hit a refinery and turn around. :D
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I have time... So Im going to pipe in :)
FesterMA is my second favorite right now. Trinity for some reason captured my heart. Baltic is probably number 3.
Here is something nice Iv encountered on the FesterMap. I find a few more 1v1, 2v1, 2v2 type fights. even with the feilds closer together, the fights tend to spread a bit more. I like that.
I prefer to fight near odds and see if I can best my opponet. Furballs are often just zipping around until something happens in front of your sights. (you know a true cloud of planes)
Dont get me wrong, those Furs are fun too, but better is a near even fight, at least to me.
As a Generalizmo and Strat weenie, I dont see a problem here. The targets are there, Zones are there, Its just a matter of squishing the strat. Thats seems to be where frustrations for bomber types set in.
Flying a single formation or even two over a facility has little effect, so nobody really wants to do it. It requires larger coordinated strikes to really do much. I have no problem with that. I like the fact it promotes cooperation. In fact I dont like the Idea that a single player can really effect many. But thats rambling.....
Fester has given us something I thought was needed for a long time now, a Medium sized map. I like it. :)
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Actually, Grimm, I think the strat is part of the problem.
I can easily get 10 Formations of bombers to smash a Strat facility. The problem is the fact that it does not appear to have much of an effect.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Suppose I do the above mission, and hit the City and the Grunt training. So we bang both targets and the fields in this zone will be without troops for 4 hours, once the barracks gets killed.
So I either have to coordinate a Jabo raid to kill the barracks, concurrently, or immedietly after we RTB.
Fo the amount of time it takes to make a round trip in heavies to the stratr target and back, I can lead the same 10 planes on Jabo raids, and CAPTURE the zone!
Now here is my hope for FesterMA. Perhaps with the fields closer, and the furs stalmating, a steady front line will form. I've seen it happen already. I am hoping people may turn to heavy bombing of strat as a way to break the stalemate of the front.
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Could be..
Im not ready with an answer on how to overhaul the strat system. I do know that if the strat system is compleatly destroyed. By that I mean all facilities and cities, fuel, ammo, troops ect... Its pretty effectively shuts down a country.
It takes alot of effort to do that, Im pretty sure its only been done once in the modern age of AH. So its probably not really a valid tactic in the MA.
Lets face it, everyone, even those saintly furball kings, like to frustrate their enemy, some just be besting thier opponet in a dog fight, some by bombing a target. Its just the level of problems it causes for the effort exerted needs to be balance.
As much as I hate when my HQ goes down, their seems to be some decent chances to defend it with the 163s and it repair can be added by player resupply. Its a way more balanced thing than say... Fuel!
Back toward topic, FesterMA still offers Strat targets the same as any map, In some respects having a clean shot at them from High alt might be easier with the closer/lower alt fights.
I really cant come up with a down side to this map, unless its less High alt dog fights. Yeah! there ya go! ;)
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Originally posted by sax
[Context -- that's a cold medicine, right?] ...my best meat was screaming thru the pile-up.
Glad to hear someone's "best meat" is getting some action.
In other news...
Right now I really only have time to fly Squad Ops, but I spent a couple of hours on Fester's map, and I gotta say -- Good job, Fester. Good job.
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Originally posted by LoneStarBuckeye
In my opinion, the problem with "REAL" WW2 air combat is that, well, it just isn't any fun. I don't want to fly around for half an hour in faiiled hope of seeing an enemy plane. Instead, I want to know that if I fly for five minutes in a particular direction, there will be plenty of red icons for me to target. Admittedly, it is easier to get irrecoverably sucked into massive furballs when one misjudges the ebb and flow of the fight (e.g., getting low and slow with 7 SpitNikLaLas on my high six), but avoiding that danger is part of the fun and challenge. I like to furball AND land my kills.
After playing other (supposedly) more "realistic" air combat sims (i.e., IL2), it seems to me that AH was designed with certain (excellent, IMHO) gameplay concessions in order to promote dogfighting (e.g., view system, gun lethality, etc.). In my opinion, furballing against live humans is just about the best gaming experience there is. For me, it's not about "realism," it's about the FIGHT and getting better at it. And as far as I can tell, the only way to get better is to throw yourself into the fray and put your virtual life at risk. (When I get owned in my Spit V by a P47, I recognize that I lost to someone who is considerably more skilled than me and I try to learn from the experience. For me, this is part of the fun.) Throwing myself into a fight beyond the point of no return, getting some kills, and somehow making it home is just about as good as it gets for me on a PC. But, on occassion, I want a more "realistic," mission-type experience, so I load up IL2 (it looks much better, to boot).
In sum, I think that it is a mistake to try to force AH to be something that it likely was never intended to be. (Nonetheless, if you would rather cherry pick or blow stuff up than dogfight, I don't see why you can't successfully do that on the new map. Folks like me, on the other hand, cannot find fights quickly and consistently on some of the other maps, most notably Big Isles.)
Just my $0.02,
JNOV
LoneStar. Of course I agree with you about real WW2 not being fun. :cool: The guys who flew back then never knew if they would make it down alive, and thousands didn't.
I recently quoted a WB sage - Jedi - wisest sage in WB if you ask me. I'll quote him again here - it was that good. Jedi said "Remember, REAL air combat wasn't FUN at all. The closer we get to REAL, the farther we'll get from FUN." But he later added an important caveat, which was to say that there was a limit to how far the same principle would work in reverse. That is to say there is a limit to how far we move away from REAL, and continue to move towards FUN.
I'm on the middle ground. I didn't care for the naive but well intentioned campaign of the Historical Realists to have everything modelled on reality, and to remove all gameplay concessions. For example, no way can I fly without icons.
But AH is going too far the other way. We've had idiotic gameplay for as long as I can remember. No hourly charges to keep the tards out! That's why I was looking forward to TOD.
But to get to a situation where the airfields are practically in sight of one another just so that we can get to the "action" in 30 seconds is going over the top. And I really don't care for the "fly-till-you-die" vulch crap. I was perhaps unfortunate in that in the limited number of sessions I was able to fly on FMA, a lot of what I saw was vulching.
OK, so folks will say that the FMA is more "fun", but Quake and Doom are "fun" for the kids who play them. I fly AH because I want a WW2 simulation, not Quake with wings.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I fly AH because I want a WW2 simulation, not Quake with wings.
Well, seeing that you do nothing but cry and moan about the "state of the MA", perhaps it has dawned on you that you're in the wrong place?
Seems the majority of the player base is voting with their mouse; any night you choose, you'll see a huge crowd in this pitiful Quake MA compared to the tiny crowds in all the other AH arenas combined.
Face it chum, what YOU want everyone else to do is not what THEY want to do.
And it doesn't look they're coming around to your way of thinking. Au contraire, with the release of FesterMA, they're getting "Quakier", for which I thank cod and all his fish.
I suggest you try the CT at least until TOD comes out; it's much closer to your stated desires. Then, you can make TOD General and order folks to play the way you want them to play. That'll show 'em!
(and probably empty that arena too..)
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We've had idiotic gameplay for as long as I can remember. No hourly charges to keep the tards out!
Yes, Thats right... Everyone knows that Rich People are never Jerks and always play well.
Middle Class and low income people are the problem right? Those that dont have alot of money to throw away?
Beetle dont you think AH sould be restricted to only people with large incomes?
::Grumble Grumble Grumble::
:mad:
Sorry but that superiority statment always angers me.....
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Originally posted by Toad
Well, seeing that you do nothing but cry and moan about the "state of the MA", perhaps it has dawned on you that you're in the wrong place?
Seems the majority of the player base is voting with their mouse; any night you choose, you'll see a huge crowd in this pitiful Quake MA compared to the tiny crowds in all the other AH arenas combined.
Face it chum, what YOU want everyone else to do is not what THEY want to do.
And it doesn't look they're coming around to your way of thinking. Au contraire, with the release of FesterMA, they're getting "Quakier", for which I thank cod and all his fish.
I suggest you try the CT at least until TOD comes out; it's much closer to your stated desires. Then, you can make TOD General and order folks to play the way you want them to play. That'll show 'em!
(and probably empty that arena too..)
Muhahaha! That's a bit rich, coming from you, Chum... My entire postings about gameplay last week on FMA probably amount to less than 0.001% of all the pizza map whines we've had to endure to date. All that whining from the furballers because they had to fly more than 2 minutes to get to the "action". When pizza was up, did YOU not realise that YOU might be in the wrong place? Gawd, I told you enough times to get to the DA. That didn't work, and the only way to placate you guys was to bring the DA to the MA - lol. One could go further, in light of your lauding of Quake style gameplay, and say that you could never be satisfied with a mere WW2 flight sim, so we've had to create Quake within AH! QWW - Quake With Wings - Blue Mako was so right!
As for the player base voting with their mice, check back when pizza is up. I don't think you'll see any appreciable drop in numbers when compared with the other maps at any given time of day. It's still 100-odd at Euro times, maybe 350+ late Euro evening - whatever map is on. They still turn up - whether or not I'm in there. I'm so sorry to burst your bubble. :D
But if you are so fond of Quake-style gameplay, next time the pizza map is up, why don't you play... erm... Quake? Download it tonight. Let me know the URL. I'll play it myself when the children's maps are up! That way, gameplay on FMA will resemble a reasonable (first) attempt at WW2 gameplay. :lol
Early night - Toodle-Pip. :cool:
BTW, if you're going to use long words, learn to spell them properly. It's "aficionado". Conserve your Fs. You never know when you might need them!
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Originally posted by Grimm
Yes, Thats right... Everyone knows that Rich People are never Jerks and always play well.
Middle Class and low income people are the problem right? Those that dont have alot of money to throw away?
Beetle dont you think AH sould be restricted to only people with large incomes?
::Grumble Grumble Grumble::
:mad:
Sorry but that superiority statment always angers me.....
I wasn't the first to say it - it was funked.
But hey, I'm just a limey - I come from a third world country - ask Lazs.
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beetle I'm still waiting to see a map or at the very minimum a map design from you. I see mountains of the same stuff repeated over and over by you about what you think is the best design for the main arena.
take 5 minutes from your full sweetying schedule and take a piece of paper and draw out a design for a main arena. take a moment to think about what you want it to look like.
did it ever occur to you maybe only YOU can design a map exactly how YOU want it?
well?
you can reply with a bunch of hot air full of sound and fury signifying nothing or you can show me your design for a main arena that is exactly how you want it.
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OK, so folks will say that the FMA is more "fun", but Quake and Doom are "fun" for the kids who play them. I fly AH because I want a WW2 simulation, not Quake with wings.
Nothing gamey about energy and angles, thats all successful furballers use. Most of us are busy people -- what is the advantage of sitting and waiting for the dweeb to figure out that his 10k advantage no more helps him than it hurts me.
The whole debate is pointless anyway -- while both sides tend to label the other skilless, the good sticks seem to have no trouble creating scoring opportunities regardless of field spacing.
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Originally posted by Grimm
Sorry but that superiority statment always angers me.....
larger the income, smaller the balls.
:D
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Originally posted by Toad
So where's your beef? You can still fly your way.
Is the problem what Laz so often points out? Are you unhappy that Fester's map doesn't channel other players into gameplay into the areas YOU particularly favor?
I really don't expect people to fly the way I want. That won't stop me saying that I am disappointed with the direction the MA has taken. In truth, the MA has been turning into Quake ever since the lemming hordes arrived about 12 months (or more?) back, it's just that FMA is much more suited to their style and makes it more evident. It's a simple fact that I just don't really enjoy sniffing armpits and fertiliser with the furball crowd. I just get irked when I shoot someone down and then have to kill them again less than 5 minutes later. The close bases mean that having a good fight with a few bad guys leads to a quick trip to the tower as the instant respawn crew turns up overhead...
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lol mako dont you get it?
the players make the maps. HTC aproves them and gives the players latitude to do new things.
the direction MA maps go is up to whoever makes the maps.
are you gonna be a beetle clone and whine about what you want and what you think is better?
or are you going to do somthing about it?
you guys crack me up. I hope I can piss you off enough with my map that it inspires you to create your own. I honestly would be interested in seeing an actual piece of thought drawn out on paper about your own perfectly designed arena.
thats what happened when I decided to make my map, I didnt like the direction the MA was going and I used the tools HTC has offered to every player who wants to make an arena map the way they want it.
you have two options in the way the Main arena goes:
1. you can sweety and moan like so many about what you want and what you dont want and wait for the slim chance that someone else will make somthing you like. you will acomplish nothing doing this. you will inspire no one to your cause and nothing will change to your liking.
2. you can build your own map. for gods sakes at the very minimum you dont have to build it just make a design for it to show others what you think will be a better "direction" for the MA HTC is willing to trust its players and their map designs. you build it they will try it. they are very interested in what you build when you actually take the time to think through exactly what you want in a main arena and THEN BUILD IT!
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Originally posted by beet1e
LoneStar. Of course I agree with you about real WW2 not being fun. :cool: The guys who flew back then never knew if they would make it down alive, and thousands didn't.
I recently quoted a WB sage - Jedi - wisest sage in WB if you ask me. I'll quote him again here - it was that good. Jedi said "Remember, REAL air combat wasn't FUN at all. The closer we get to REAL, the farther we'll get from FUN." But he later added an important caveat, which was to say that there was a limit to how far the same principle would work in reverse. That is to say there is a limit to how far we move away from REAL, and continue to move towards FUN.
Wow .. thats real "sage"-y. It must be come with the name ... you know ... Jedi powers ... sage-y-ness stuff ... :rolleyes:
Originally posted by beet1e
I'm on the middle ground. I didn't care for the naive but well intentioned campaign of the Historical Realists to have everything modelled on reality, and to remove all gameplay concessions. For example, no way can I fly without icons.
The is nothing "middle ground" about you beet.
Originally posted by beet1e
But AH is going too far the other way. We've had idiotic gameplay for as long as I can remember. No hourly charges to keep the tards out! That's why I was looking forward to TOD.
Your such an elitist. All your post do smack of ... "I am better than you".
Originally posted by beet1e
But to get to a situation where the airfields are practically in sight of one another just so that we can get to the "action" in 30 seconds is going over the top. And I really don't care for the "fly-till-you-die" vulch crap. I was perhaps unfortunate in that in the limited number of sessions I was able to fly on FMA, a lot of what I saw was vulching.
For someone that had a limited number of sessions on FesterMA, you sure don't seem to have a limited amount whines and/or opinions.
Originally posted by beet1e
OK, so folks will say that the FMA is more "fun", but Quake and Doom are "fun" for the kids who play them. I fly AH because I want a WW2 simulation, not Quake with wings.
I CAN'T wait for AH II : TOD to come out so that you can jump into your uniform and lead them all to victory.
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Originally posted by Blue Mako
I really don't expect people to fly the way I want. That won't stop me saying that I am disappointed with the direction the MA has taken. In truth, the MA has been turning into Quake ever since the lemming hordes arrived about 12 months (or more?) back, it's just that FMA is much more suited to their style and makes it more evident. It's a simple fact that I just don't really enjoy sniffing armpits and fertiliser with the furball crowd. I just get irked when I shoot someone down and then have to kill them again less than 5 minutes later. The close bases mean that having a good fight with a few bad guys leads to a quick trip to the tower as the instant respawn crew turns up overhead...
If you don't like "sniffing armpits and fertiliser" then DON'T GO THERE. It's only you that chooses where YOU GO.
"I just get irked when I shoot someone down and then have to kill them again less than 5 minutes later" ... Is that the criterium of whether all is "OK" or not.
With 100% certainty, that same individual will come back at you at a different angle, speed, E-state, and maybe a different plane.
So if he comes back 10 times, you have fought 10 different fights. Sounds like a real bad thing to me.
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I had a tough time trying to figure where the CV parking location was in the corner of the maps, maybe Fester can shed some light on that?
:)
Incidently, Mapmakers, take note on Festers "Linear method" of the VH spawns. Thats the way it *should* be done.
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cv parking location rip? you mean where the ports are?
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Originally posted by Citabria
lol mako dont you get it?
the players make the maps. HTC aproves them and gives the players latitude to do new things.
the direction MA maps go is up to whoever makes the maps.
are you gonna be a beetle clone and whine about what you want and what you think is better?
or are you going to do somthing about it?
I get it. The thing is that you don't bother reading someone's post before you make your assumptions.
I commented on gameplay in the MA, I commented on the effect your map has on it. I did not whine about anything, I offered my opinion. I also stated that it has been my opinion long before your map came out.
Kudos for going to the effort to make a map. I respect that you took the effort to do it. Don't expect me to jump up and down in excitement because you decided to build a map to cater to your own preferred style of play.
If I get enough spare time I probably will try my hand at making a map but for now I fly what others make. But think about this: How would it be received if I designed a map with bases 100 miles apart? It'd stop the instant-respawn-instant-revenge gameplay that I personally dislike but I doubt very much you'd have any players for a week at a time. My point: an MA needs to be as balanced as possible for all players, not just one segment.
Your MA map hasn't been up for long, maybe it is more balanced that my first impression makes it seem but that doesn't really matter. What does matter is the knee jerk reaction of the vocal few that label anyone with a different opinion as whiners and sky-accountants. Are there really that many people out there with Lazs pin-ups in their lockers?
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Originally posted by Citabria
cv parking location rip? you mean where the ports are?
He means where you go and play hide n seek with the CV.
It's childish.. "If i can't play with ti no one can!" Only that you CAN play with it to begin with. So there's no point.
If someone sets the course of the CVs back to a corner after i move em towards the mainland (and i warn them beforehand, if they move em i'm giving away thier location) i tell people on channel one where they are.
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bluemako you have a vaild opinion. long missions can be fun. I just posted a possible solution to those desiring long flight time missions at high altitudes... it could be very real possibility that using TOD buff drone formations in the MA under player control like a carrier. someone needs to escort them or they will get slaughtered. especially if they are only defended by players riding along in the gun positions. but to do so you must fly deep into enemy territory at high altitude. and with such a large force of bombers posing a real serious threat to enemy cities and factories and HQ you can be assured that a response from the enemy will be very real.
think about this. a lot of people like close fields and quick action because they lead busy lives and have little time to relax and have a good long 2 hour mission online. if ecort duties are available for those seeking such time intensive challenges it negates the need to spoil the fun of others by moving fields far away from eachother.
it also creates a need for high performance high altitude fighters in spite of the usual low alt fun being had by so many (lets face it they enjoy it)
again you said it yourself, balance.
I know I want to escort buffs on long missions every few sorties or so for variety.
I know I also want to up from a field near the buffs target in a 109 and climb like hell to get above the buffs and the escorts and make firing passes at them and tempt the escorts to blow their altitude and abandon their escort mission.
you know... fun
tell me this dosnt look like fun!...
(http://locke.artamir.org/B17_final.jpg)
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Originally posted by Rutilant
He means where you go and play hide n seek with the CV.
It's childish.. "If i can't play with ti no one can!" Only that you CAN play with it to begin with. So there's no point.
If someone sets the course of the CVs back to a corner after i move em towards the mainland (and i warn them beforehand, if they move em i'm giving away thier location) i tell people on channel one where they are.
rutiliant I have added a battleship to each country that isnt good at field capture that will excel at going to hidden cv locations and destroying them where they try to hide.
I look at cv hiding as another variation of a gameplay oportunity. the cv can be captured and hidden but now there is a bismark battleship that can be sent to retrieve it.
variety is good and hidden cv's that need recapturing offer another challenge that with the right tools can be a great challenge to hunt down. think of it like fishing... go to the right spot and bam land yourself a hidden carrier and all you had to do was steer a battleship there while you flew in furballs.. er at high alt from 30 miles behind enemy lines and got frustrated with the lack of high altitude fights. :D
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Has anyone ever said.. I love you? :D
Besides lazs of course, he does much more than that to fester. ;)
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Originally posted by beet1e
All that whining from the furballers because they had to fly more than 2 minutes to get to the "action".
You never will get it because you keep your eyes closed.
The problem for the furballers like Laz and I is that far apart fields make early war planes unusable when the fuel is 25%. Here's the KEY point: that makes it "unplayable" for us; it makes it impossible to do what we like to do.
OTOH absoulutely NOTHING prevents you from flying the way you like to fly on ANY of the maps, including Fester. All the options are still open to you.
What Fester provides for US is a way to play in our early war planes even when the fuel is 25%, short though the sorties must be.
When Big Isles or AKD is up I DO go to the CT or DA now. If those are boring, I just log. About the only way I'll play Big Isles or AKD is if there's a decent CV rumble going on. Otherwise, it isn't worth my time.
Perhaps you can try this method when FesterMA is up. It works for me.
I've never said I'm here for anything but the fight.
Quake with Wings in the MA? Well, the people have spoken; you just don't agree with them. You cry about gameplay on ALL the maps. Face facts; the majority have almost no interest in the things you think are vital to this game.
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I don't care for quake with wings.
I prefer something with a little more strategy.
Just checking in seeing as how people are speaking for the entire AH community.
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I think the entire community speaks for itself.
The ideals you an guys like Beet pine over are much more likely to be found in the CT than the MA.
If the entire community thought like you and Beet, the CT would be the most populous arena. It has all that realistic matchup stuff, it limits the Big 5 pretty routinely, it still has base capture, etc., etc., etc.
Yet... it almost always running at less than 8% of what the MA draws.
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Because the CT sucks.
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Citabria, I'll say it again - didn't so much whine about your map as the gameplay on it. The early war planes had not arrived when I started; it was wall to wall LA7/Spit. After I'd killed the same LA7 goon hunter three times, I thought "What is the point to all this?". But hey, your map is popular. It should be kept. As for me not being able to find what I like on any map, that's not true. The pizza is fun - I know it looks ridiculous, but the field spacing makes for less QWW, and the terrain alts (12K floors etc.) give the P47 a good chance to excel, and take the LA7s out of their comfort zone. :D I think that whining at me for my perceived whining at you is inappropriate. You are one of many who initiated pizza map whines. I am OK with all maps (preference for pizza & Trinity) and go to the CT when the children's maps are up. I'll try your map again next time round.
Mr. Toad! ;) "You never will get it because you keep your eyes closed."
No, it's just that I blinked as I took off, and by the time the blink was complete, I'd arrived over an enemy field. :lol
What a load of BS you have spouted this time round. You keep saying that I can do what I want on any map, but you can only do what you want on maps like FMA. And it's equine excrement. (has a bit more class than the bovine variety) You said "The problem for the furballers like Laz and I is that far apart fields make early war planes unusable when the fuel is 25%. Here's the KEY point: that makes it "unplayable" for us; it makes it impossible to do what we like to do. OTOH absoulutely NOTHING prevents you from flying the way you like to fly on ANY of the maps, including Fester. All the options are still open to you."
What the hell are you talking about? Oh wait - no point asking you because you don't know yourself. :p Are you saying that my planes do not need fuel? Are you saying that I'm unaffected by fuel porkage? How far do you think I can get in a 109G with 25% fuel? Did you think that my planes run on solar power? Durhhh... :rolleyes::rolleyes: One rolleyes was not enough. Fuel porkage affects me too! I just don't piss and moan about it the way you do.
Now listen, matey. Whenever a buff guy has a problem taking off from a front line field, the considered suggestion of the furballers is... well see my red sig. text. I think you know why it's in two parts, and why I added the second part. Yes, take off from one field further back. Why can't you do the same? Or are you saying that you don't have time to waste on that and yet you still expect folks like me to do that? Does the future of all map design hinge on the busy RL schedules of yourself and other furballers and those with attention deficit disorder? Are we to see maps with fields ¼ sector apart because the furballers are putting in a lot of overtime at the office and only have 34 minutes to play AH when they get home?
Here we go again- "Quake with Wings in the MA? Well, the people have spoken; you just don't agree with them. You cry about gameplay on ALL the maps. Face facts; the majority have almost no interest in the things you think are vital to this game."
You really do think that the BBS is representative of everyone who plays AH? It's an indicator, no more. When was the last time I cried about gameplay on any map except FMA and children's? YOU complain about gameplay on ALL maps. You hardly ever stop bleating "waaaaaahhh... some nasty kid has porked my fuel back to 25%. Waaaaaaahhh... now I'll have to take off from one field further back. Waaaaaahhhh... but I've only got 16 minutes to play before dinner. Or waaaaahhh... no radar, but waaaaahhhh... defending it is "not fun" and waaaahhhh... resupplying HQ is even less fun and is beneath my stature...
Oh, the people have spoken? Well next time pizza is up, check to see how many are in the MA at any given time every night that it's up. And then compare that with the number of people in the MA at any time when FMA or the children's maps are up. I don't think you'll see that much difference. The ONLY way to gauge opinion is an HTC pre-game popup poll.
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Why does'nt the dueling arena burst at the seems from the influx of "Weedwacking Furballers" whenever Pizza comes up?
I mean, it has everything a furballer like you and your ilk are always pining for. Unlimited fuel, no buffs to mess you up, close fields...hell, you can up from the same field as you opponent, I think. This is furball heaven! And the MASSES HAVE SPOKEN!!! Yet, when an "Anti-furball" map is up, the numbers in the DA are comparitive with the CT at best. At worst, 10...maybe 15 people.
So perhaps people like me who do enjoy dogfighting, but not exclusively, prefer the MA, but would still like to see some improvements.
Perhaps the "Go to the CT" answer is about as acceptable to us as "Go to the DA" is to you.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
So perhaps people like me who do enjoy dogfighting, but not exclusively, prefer the MA, but would still like to see some improvements.
care to elaborate? i mean the "furballers" have been very specific in their requests and visions. let's see a beet1esque wall-o-text. impress us with your utopian vision.
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damn... I think shane is getting smarter.... and funnier.
look... I can fly out a whole tank of fuel in festabria without seeing another plane if that is what I want to do. yu "realism" freaks can do that too.
I would agree with shane... us furballers have explained what we want and why... we are all pretty much in agreement and now that we have it we find that it makes us happy...
you strat guys OTOH.... well... lay it out... what do you want? bet you can't get two of you anal types to even come close to agreeing on half the things you lay out.
blue mako is saying that what he doesn't like is that festabria gives the players the ability to play as they like and that since he dioesn't like playing that way.... he is playing with himself.
beetle is thinking the same thing but can't figure out a way to say it without proving what everyone allready knows about him.
lazs
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Beet, you routinely take off from one field back. I don't, never will.
Muck & Beet, I do use the DA and the CT as an alternative to Big Isles and AKD. I'll play those if there's a decent CV battle going but when some moron finally ends that fun, I just leave. Because the CT or DA are more fun that those maps for me in general.
I suggest you do the same when you feel frustrated on FesterMA.
As for voting? Hey, how many of the Big 5 do you see? Looks like you guys lost that vote too! How many of the guys in the arena are playing "serious" WW2? Looks like you lost that vote too! How many guys are not taking fields with the old "pork & auger steamroller"? Looks like you lost that vote too!
Seems to me you guys are a pretty small minority. Someday, when you fully grasp the previous paragraph you may realize why "the fight's the thing" and finally come to the light.
:rofl
Of course, TOD may make everyone march in step at your command, General. :rofl :lol :rofl
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Is it something about being a furball-style player that requires one to be insulting, and condescending?
I'm serious. It's not even worth discussing things with the like of Shane, Lazs, and Toad. All you want to do is BBS furball.
At least Fester seems interested in hearing the other side of the coin.
You three are simply looking for a post that you can slam and "Prove" you idea of AH utopia is better than mine. It's really tiresome.
I don't believe a wall of text is necessary. I can sum up what I would like to see in AH in a short paragraph.
I would like to see a game that requires the combined use of all weapons types available, in a coordinated team effort, to reach a specific goal. I would like a game where level bombing has a role, and has more of an impact on the overall outcome of the "war". I would like a game where the weapons employed more closely shadow how they were designed to be used, and were used in WWII.
I am sorry I cannot be more specific, but doing so would require the dreaded Wall O Text.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Is it something about being a furball-style player that requires one to be insulting, and condescending?
It's called "mirroring".
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Originally posted by muckmaw
I would like to see a game that requires the combined use of all weapons types available, in a coordinated team effort, to reach a specific goal. I would like a game where level bombing has a role, and has more of an impact on the overall outcome of the "war". I would like a game where the weapons employed more closely shadow how they were designed to be used, and were used in WWII.
This is not that game, at least in the MA. It never was, it never was intended to be, it never will be.
Some realized it right off.
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What was it intended to be?
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I think the best assessment ever posted (and I can't remember who said it first) is that HT has provided us with the sandbox full of toys. After that, it is what we make it. Because of that, it will never be what you just posted.
Now, apparently, TOD will have more structure and rules and ranks and orders and such. I'd think that could/would be more likely to sastify you if what you posted is actually what you seek.
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ToD may satisfy the strat portion of my brain. That remains to be seen.
In the meantime, it's nice to see maps like Fester's to satisfy the furball side of my brain.
It's tough being the AH equivalent of a frosted mini-wheat.
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Originally posted by Toad
As for voting? Hey, how many of the Big 5 do you see? Looks like you guys lost that vote too! How many of the guys in the arena are playing "serious" WW2? Looks like you lost that vote too! How many guys are not taking fields with the old "pork & auger steamroller"? Looks like you lost that vote too!
Seems to me you guys are a pretty small minority.
Erm... am I missing something? I am not aware of HTC having handed out ballot papers or such. Where/when did these votes take place? What are we talking about here - BBS posts? Gameplay observations? Shane talking in his sleep?
Popup polls are the only thing that will count as votes in my book. And arena attendance figures - people voting with their mice.
MuckMAW is spot on. Compare the attendance figures for the MA versus the DA next time the pizza map is up. It's the best we can do till HTC decides to conduct a pre-game popup poll.
For now, we have balance. We have small maps with fields close together (QWW, children's) and we have larger maps with fields further apart (trinity, pizza, big isles). If we can keep all of them, I have no problem with the status quo. What could be better!
Balance, my boy, balance. ;)
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I'm furball frosted all over. :D
I doubt anything that would satisfy my desire for strategy will be found in any of the arenas of this game. Simply too many people involved, I think.
For example, I really like chess although I haven't played in years but it only allows two players and neither gets to make up the rules.
OTOH, something like TOD will involve perhaps (possibly) hundreds of players. There'll be some rules but a few high ranking players will have the ability to dictate some of the rules/procedures. I don't see myself fitting into that scenario. I have absolutely no desire to be a high ranking player and tell others what to do.
It may work out for some though.
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Beet, people vote with their mouse buttons. You loathing of the Big 5 (or is it 6 or 7 by now) merely shows how out of touch you are with the masses. They fly what they want to fly and it bothers you. How redikulousneesss!
Yes, count the numbers when AKD is up. And then post yet another time how "dweebius doofius" isn't playing the way you want him to play on AKD.
:rofl
You're outvoted again! And it doesn't take a pop-up poll for normal observers to see it.
BTW, Muck
(QWW, children's)
Is it something about being a furball-style player that requires one to be insulting, and condescending?
Mirroring. :p
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" would like to see a game that requires the combined use of all weapons types available, in a coordinated team effort, to reach a specific goal."
Muck,
The only failing variable in that equation is "specific goal".
This game has been designed with many types of goals and not one "forced common goal".
The best a map maker can do is to try and satisfy as many of these goals as possible. I beleive that FesterMA is the closest so far, given the map/gameplay architecture.
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I think the resupply element is being overlooked in this. Frankly I think because we don't do it much.
Whoever made resupply pretty much ineffectual(a) is largely responsible for our 25% fuel problem. They went way too far to the other extreme on resupply and it gives the pork and auger crowd a great incentive to continue in thier ways. This will harm any map to varying degrees.
Make resupply effective and every map will benefit.
(a)(as in requiring so many goons to resupply anything so as to discourage people from doing it - it even subtracts from your per sortie damage score figures in bombers.)
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I saw that Toad.
No one's hands are clean, and it's not condusive to a quality discussion no matter who makes the remarks.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
" would like to see a game that requires the combined use of all weapons types available, in a coordinated team effort, to reach a specific goal."
Muck,
The only failing variable in that equation is "specific goal".
This game has been designed with many types of goals and not one "forced common goal".
The best a map maker can do is to try and satisfy as many of these goals as possible. I beleive that FesterMA is the closest so far, given the map/gameplay architecture.
Slapshot-
No one is forced to realize a goal in this case because there is no specific goal in my statement. The goal could be different for different people. It could be something as simple as a base capture, or as intricate as a multi faceted strat attack. The goal is not forced as everyone has their own. Other people have goals that require no help from anyone else.
I have a goal every month to try and get my K/D above 2. A goal like this does not require the cooperation of anyone else...except maybe the guy I'm shooting at.
I would like to see more combined efforts of Air and Land forces necessary to capture bases. The goal here being the base capture, and the requirement being cooperation of a large group of people employing various weapons.
Sorry if this is confusing. It'a hard to put into words.
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muck and beetle... when I asked for furball friendly map I asked that the fields be closer together. real friggin simple eh?
now.... what FEATURE would you like on a map that would promote your style of gameplay?
lazs
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Bring back the Beta 1 map!!!
BTW, I totally agree 100% with this thread!
Basically, I dont care which map is up, I just fly and die!!
:)
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Originally posted by Zanth
Whoever made resupply pretty much ineffectual(a) is largely responsible for our 25% fuel problem. They went way too far...
...Make resupply effective and every map will benefit.
That would be HT.
BTW, see.. we agree on something!
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Originally posted by Toad
Beet, people vote with their mouse buttons. You loathing of the Big 5 (or is it 6 or 7 by now) merely shows how out of touch you are with the masses. They fly what they want to fly and it bothers you. How redikulousneesss!
I keep missing these "votes". Has there been another one? I don't have a loathing of Big 3/4/5/6/7... I'd just like to see more balance instead of the same 4-5 planes, and I'm not alone on that. But how do you feel about fuel porkers? I could say "They fly what they want to fly and it bothers you. How redikulousneesss!" BTW we've all got nicknames for maps. I don't think my "QWW" tag is any more off colour than "Pizza" - is it?
I want the same things as guys like Muckmaw and MiniD. But with fields too close together I think we move away from that, and end up with QWW.
Lazs asked "now.... what FEATURE would you like on a map that would promote your style of gameplay?"
Honest answer: I'd like adequately spaced fields and more hi alt and mountain terrains. Pizza's not perfect by any means, but it does go part way. I'd also like to see fewer fields - not layer upon layer of unused fields.
I don't blame the maps for the SFP and other tardz. They're here because it's only 50 cents a day. But it has to be said that some maps encourage tardishness more than others.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I keep missing these "votes".
That's pretty obvious. But the results are right in front of you every time you log in and see what people are flying and what they are doing. :)
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What do I want...hmmmm...
Well, the fields closer together IS working. There no arguing that. At least my furball side is loving that, and I've not seen any adverse effects, but the map was only up one week.
I'm really hoping thr close fields create a stalemate, requiring level bombers to break the enemy strat before the line can be advanced.
What I would want in the map before all else would be a MUCH bigger field-town.
Maybe 4X what it is now. Basically, I'd like something that would make it impossible or very difficult to capture a town without heavy bombers.
If this is not something a map maker can dictate, I would have to ask for a few more Strat targets to hit. Unfortunately, the thing I want for gamplay above all else is not up to the mapper...change the strat system so it has a more direct impact on the war.
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Originally posted by Toad
That's pretty obvious. But the results are right in front of you every time you log in and see what people are flying and what they are doing. :)
Logged in - first plane I saw was a C47 - honest truth! He asked me if the town was still down at A219. I checked and it was, so he dropped and we got A219. Then I wondered how many other strat minded C47 pilots there are. Later checked the capture stats for this guy. He has 2 captures in goons and is ranked #392. 4 captures in M3 and is ranked #406. Shows me that there are hundreds of guys delivering troops to capture fields. Before that there would need to be about 6 guys to kill the town, VH, CAP the field. I don't know if it's possible to get stats for goons - except the somewhat meaningless kill stats! But just looking at those stats, I am led to believe that thousands of players are in the field capture business. Do you know different?
Muckmaw - fields closer together is great for furballs - I never doubted it would be. But that's not what I'm looking for - didn't think it was what you wanted either, looking at one of your earlier posts in which you said what you would like to see in AH.
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beetle... what you are saying then is that the feature you would like is "adequetly spaced fields".... I don't know what that means but later you insinuate that the much hated pizza map is much to your liking spacing wise..
That being the case one can only infer that you feel that the only way you can get your style of gameplay is to deny everyone else from having any other choice.
The reverse is not true with closer fields... you can still hide from other players on festabria. you can take off 6 filds back if you like and not see another player for a whole tank of fuel... course most everyone else will be fighting and having fun... the only way you can get em to play your way is to deny them the choice to do anything fun.
lazs
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I'm not married to any one style, Beetle.
This strat vs. Fur thing has taken on a life of its own, but people have to realize that there are folks who like to do both.
I am really looking forward to TOD, and enjoy the current events we participate in. I love a good organized raid better than anything in the game. But there are nights when I simply do not feel like getting involved in all the planning, that goes into a strategic raid.
Some nights, I prefer to just climb into a plane a lone wolf it out to the nearest furball.
If I had to choose one way of playing or the other, I would go for the full scale realism.
The way AH is laid out now, I don't see any problem the closer fields are causing. I've not see the fuel porking issue I had feared. Field captures seem harder to execute, which I like. If I need to up a heavy, I simply fall back a base or 2 so I can get enough Alt.
The things I want in AH, I do not think can be provided by any map maker. It requires a change of AH coding, I think.
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Muck's got it
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Lazs, I know you like furballs, and your gameplay style does not interfere with mine - and vice-versa. We're not usually on at the same time anyway. My reason for wanting adequately spaced fields is not to spoil things for guys like you and Toad. I just want things to be harder for the suicide pork dweebs. But I would like more high alt activity - the P47 handles very differently at 20-25K from how it handles at 5K, and I expect the same is true of other planes. I enjoy exploring the flight envelope at those alts.
Muck, I understand your game, and if I was on your time zone I might even apply to join your squad. You are right, FMA has only been up a week. Let's reserve judgement until we've flown it a few times.
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Actually I would think Beet that closer spaced fields pretty much negates the suicide porker unless he takes off from rear fields to get sufficient altitude to come in "above" to do his contribution to the "war" effort. Porking fields no longer means much in festers map. Kinda a sly thing to do if you ask me.
No flames here. The Main should be a sandbox where all can "play". Porkage issues and field separation combined caused an issue that eliminated some from the equation.
Closer fields seems to have solved that and it's become a sandbox of fighting once again. That is a good thing. And from reading impressions on the board well excepted.
WB went so far as REMOVING the sandbox. Where'd that get them ?? The well known California expression "Got Brains??" applies in their case..
I'll take my pizza, I'll take my big isles. If I don't hang around long on those maps, that's ok. If you dislike festers map, we'll bear up with out ya.
As long as EVERYONE can get what they want out of this map or that, it's all good.
..and Muck doo do some furballin when the mood strikes.
I SEEN HIM.
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Toad I disagree about your interpretation of fuel porkage.
When I'm in "strat" mode nothing piss me more than a captured field with only 25% as it mean that I won't be able to proceed to another field (I know I can refuel but I rarely use the same plane in 2 consecutive sorties ...)
I do pork fuel when gangbanged (aswell as upping LA7 and shiden-kai) but it's more the exception than the rule.
IMO there is nothing strategic in this attitude , it show the lameness of some players nothing more.
It show also that the resupply system need more tuning I think.
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Hi Poop! I'm running out of things to say on this thread. Yes, fields close together means fuel porking has less impact - there'll be a nearby field with fuel. The pizza way of dealing with it, fields further apart, means that it would take those SFP tardz so long to make one trip that they would quickly lose interest. Last pizza week, I only once saw a field porked to 25%, but there was another field with 125% which was just as good for rook use at that time. So perhaps the problem is worst with intermediate spacing of fields, as on the ch... er, small maps. The other thing about close fields means your 1v1 fights are more likely to be joined by an interloper.
But enough of pizza etc. Trinity seems fine to me. Had some good fights, some 1v1 - some of those I didn't deserve to win, some I lost that I should have won but learned something new.
One last thing. Stayed up very late last night - 3am here - and even ran into Mr. T in the text buffer. This game is a whole different animal at those hours (442 online), compared to what it is 12-18 hours earlier (80-140 online).