Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on October 11, 2003, 12:19:27 PM
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http://msnbc.com/news/979081.asp?0cv=CB20
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Do you know that Chirac almost won the peace nobel prize ?
he was second in the votes...
...really
it's true
I would not lie to you Grun...
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Originally posted by Spooky
Do you know that Chirac almost won the peace nobel prize ?
Now, that's SPOOKY...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
http://msnbc.com/news/979081.asp?0cv=CB20
It's pretty normal and should be this way.
Nothing related to tolerance bit more to respect of the law.
PARIS, Oct. 11 — _The Jewish father of two teenage girls banned from their French school for wearing traditional Muslim headscarves has vowed to appeal against a decision to exclude his daughters from their high school.
Sorry canno't resist :rofl
_Their father Laurent Levy, who describes himself as an “atheist Jew, a man with no religion,” said he was outraged by the ban and vowed to fight it.
Superb :rofl :rofl
Levy is separated from the girls’ mother, a non-practicing Muslim
Supercalifrajalisticexpialido cious :rofl
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Nice selection straffo, how about this one...
Levy is separated from the girls’ mother, a non-practicing Muslim. The girls converted after meeting their mother’s family, who are practicing Muslims
Pretty damn honorable of the father, if ya ask me, to fight for his daughter's beliefs, even though he doesn't share them.
BB
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I didn't pretend having done an unbiased selection.
It's just some points I find funny :)
Btw I disagree with you there is nothing honorable in a father supporting something illegal ,even if in this case the girls are not acting dangeriously for the society. They broke the law and the outcome was pretty forseeable like lot of former examples in the 90's .
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So I guess that those 1300 year old catherdals have yet to teach Europe anything about religious tolerance.. However perhaps a more pressing question is why has Europe not learned anything from, lets say, more recent old and wise European high cultural landmarks such as...
(http://www.denktag.de/denktag2001/projekte/29/auschwitz.jpg)
Ahh yes Europe - the land of 1300 year old cathedrals and 60 year old gas chambers.... :rolleyes:
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Seriously do you have any other reference than this article GRUN ?
It's in no way a question of intolerance in the society for a religion but more a question of intolerance of ALL religious symbol in one particuliar place : the public school.
Some student were fired for the Kippa ...
That make our school truly anti-semit I guess ?
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Why be so reasonable straffo, wernt you the least bit tempted.. :)
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I'm NOT reasonnable and I won't ever be reasonnable !
I've just tatsted some great wines(*) today and I'm a bit to jovial so I won't be pissed easily :D
(*) I tasted too a more than strange "Miru miru" from New-Zeland.
so far I was very tempted but I decided not to ruin such marvelous wines by having some heartburn :)
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Why cant people just live in a country more accordingly with the local culture rather than stressing their muslim background and mess it up.
If they want to live like muslims, I suggest they pack their bags and move to middle east or an another country which cultural background is more fit for the muslims.
minorities are the way to go this decade it seems..
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Originally posted by Fishu
Why cant people just live in a country more accordingly with the local culture rather than stressing their muslim background and mess it up.
If they want to live like muslims, I suggest they pack their bags and move to middle east or an another country which cultural background is more fit for the muslims.
minorities are the way to go this decade it seems..
LOL, this is hillarious! :)
You saying love it or leave it.... Whatever happend to that famous european international flair - that famous wise lack of chaouvenist nationalism you so joyfully express Europe has over the cowboy USA... Just so much BS...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
LOL, this is hillarious! :)
You saying love it or leave it.... Whatever happend to that famous european international flair - that famous wise lack of chaouvenist nationalism you so joyfully express Europe has over the cowboy USA... Just so much BS...
Nothing has happened.
I've never been for allowing every religion setting up their own rules in the public.
Like for example muslims keeping it their right to use scarfs over their heads and even faces, while law might require your face to be seen in the case you need to be ID'd.
or if jews would ban certain meat in the restaurants because it goes against their religion...
thats not the way to go with religions in the countries.
One should learn to live along with the local culture and not do a make over according to his beliefs.
If he doesn't like it, then hes free to move back to whatever country his beliefs originates from or are closer to...
Most people in US for example are adjusted to live together and they aren't stepping on each others toes in general
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Originally posted by Fishu
Nothing has happened.
I've never been for allowing every religion setting up their own rules in the public.
Like for example muslims keeping it their right to use scarfs over their heads and even faces, while law might require your face to be seen in the case you need to be ID'd.
or if jews would ban certain meat in the restaurants because it goes against their religion...
thats not the way to go with religions in the countries.
One should learn to live along with the local culture and not do a make over according to his beliefs.
If he doesn't like it, then hes free to move back to whatever country his beliefs originates from or are closer to...
Most people in US for example are adjusted to live together and they aren't stepping on each others toes in general
That is so racist and divisive - I feel pity for you... And its so nationalistic and intolerant to other cultures concerns...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So I guess that those 1300 year old catherdals have yet to teach Europe anything about religious tolerance.. However perhaps a more pressing question is why has Europe not learned anything from, lets say, more recent old and wise European high cultural landmarks such as...
(http://www.denktag.de/denktag2001/projekte/29/auschwitz.jpg)
Ahh yes Europe - the land of 1300 year old cathedrals and 60 year old gas chambers.... :rolleyes:
There are so many posts from u Grunherz that break every rule Skuzzy posted at the sticky and that are more obnoxious then everything I read from weazel. Grunherz I'm really asking me why such idiots like u dont get banned. I'm also asking me why u have fans like Ripsnort.
I'm really disgusted by this post!
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really out of line. but nothin happens to lunitic fringe conservatives on this bbs.
its a fact.
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Why are you disguisted by it duedel, are you trying to forget or do you not want us Americans to see the truth - or do you arrogantly assume Armericans are too ignorant to know of these things?
None of this that I point would ever have come if, and yes I'm a making collective generalization, you Europeans (reme,ber the massive biggest ever in world history yada yada protests) had not made suh a moral fuss about iraq and spouted ridiculois notions about European moral superiority and all the things Europe has suppsedly "learned" over her long and illostrious history.
So I simply pose the question what those 1300 year old cathedrals were good for when Europe was trying to blow up the world 50 years ago? Or gas millions of innocents? What were they good for when France deided to ignore nuclear testing regulaytions in the 1960s and 1970s? Or unilaterally break from NATO. And you cant say it was 50 years aho, because if yiou remember Europe is really really old and so 50 years means nothing. And you cant say you learned from the devestation after WW2 because we all know that France and the UK went right back to trying their imperialism again and bringing conflkict and devestation to other people all around the world.
So no Duedel I cannot let you get away with it. If you will spout off eloquently about the antiquity of your cathedrals and morally sophisticated culture while lambasting the USA for her irreverant "cowboy" ways then I will kindly remind you of your all too recent gas chambers and killing fields. And there is no vulgarity in doing that, all there is is your distate and unwillingness to come to terms with your, and yes being from Europe and yes Croatia my own barbaric historical record.
Because for every time you wax poetic about your year old cathedrals and what they "suppedly" taught you I want you to remind yourself of your more recent architectural landmarks.
NEVER AGAIN!
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GRUNHERZ, have you always been an ignorant studmuffin? or is it just since you moved to america?
The sooner skuzzy deletes/locks this thread the better.
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Originally posted by Furball
GRUNHERZ, have you always been an ignorant studmuffin? or is it just since you moved to america?
So Europeans did not try to kill millions of innocent people just 60 years ago in gas chambers? Were they Africans? Mexicans? Ohh Martians?
I'm asking which factual stament you disagree with?
BTW thanks for the personal insult! Are you tryng to get it locked that way? :)
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You cant generalise europe, its like generalising north america and including mexicans, americans and canadians. The Nazi's did gas people- yes.
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
BTW thanks for the personal insult! :)
Np, anytime, i enjoyed it
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Originally posted by Furball
You cant generalise europe, its like generalising north america and including mexicans, americans and canadians. The Nazi's did gas people- yes.
Np, anytime, i enjoyed it
Cool happy to help u feel good! :D
Fair enough on the first point. But still for the UK there is plenty of misbehavior in India right up to WW2, also the boer war and concentration camps, and of course the various mideat and asian colonial wars after WW2 - not to mention Northern Ireland issues. France of course can be called to account for all manner of viloent misdeeds and deliberatly malevolent actions - Versailles treaty for example despite the best protests of American president wilson - this of course contributed to WW2. Germany - enogh said there... Communism - greatest evil of all time and a purely european idea. So there is enough to gao around. And yes most of these countries had 1300 year old cathedrals what good were they for?
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http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/10/11/scarf.reut/index.html
I can't believe this !!! In the country of 200 year old cathedras !!!
Hello ? Kettle ? This is pot calling !!!
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Yeah, Grun has pretty much always been an ignorant studmuffin, but then that's why we like him so much! :p
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Originally posted by fd ski
http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/10/11/scarf.reut/index.html
I can't believe this !!! In the country of 200 year old cathedras !!!
Hello ? Kettle ? This is pot calling !!!
LOL
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Thus spoke Grunherz the pure bred North American :rolleyes:
Oh no wait a second, you're actually Croatian, am i right?
I'm English and European, and my forebears were fighting fascists while your mob were doing stuff like this...
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Posting a picture of an I.G. Farben built camp.
Atta boy keep up the good work. ;)
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Dear god Grun, get 'hold of your pole...you've got a LUNKER! Give him a little room to run with it or he may snap your line!
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Is this a Poll to get GRUN banned?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So no Duedel I cannot let you get away with it. If you will spout off eloquently about the antiquity of your cathedrals and morally sophisticated culture while lambasting the USA for her irreverant "cowboy" ways then I will kindly remind you of your all too recent gas chambers and killing fields. And there is no vulgarity in doing that, all there is is your distate and unwillingness to come to terms with your, and yes being from Europe and yes Croatia my own barbaric historical record.
Momus - I have come to terms with the facts of my european and Croatian history. I am not aoofended or outraged by you showing that picture beacuse I accept that the Ustashe are bad guys who did evil things - just like that worse. So I have nothing to hide there, no agenda that's hurt by the truth of that situation, no moral superiority BS.
Now comapre that to Duedels reaction - he obivously wants to deny and forget and make others forget what his people did.
You see thats the whole point i'm making all those centures of Europeabn cltural progress lead to what? What was the culmination? Colonialism, 2 world wars, communism, genocides etc etc. And even after the catostrophe of WW2 - the european powers go right back to it and promote and persecute wars and violence. Yet now some European politicans and protesting citizens come and say the USA is barbaric and that they (euros) are sophisticaed and know the dangers of war. When exactly did europe learn that war and military solutins were so bad? Was it after the French was in Vietnam? Was it after the 1956 suez attack? Was it after the various other french or UK post ww2 colonial actions? Was it after the Russian afghan exprience? Was it after Chechnya? Was it after Bosnia? Was it after France contined developing her nuclear arms? Was it after France heled arm Saddam Hussein, yes alongside the evil USA?
Just exatly when did the European moral consciousness devolop this profound millions strong street protest sensibilty against war?
All that alone, if true, wouldnt be so bad. Peace is good. However the accompanying attacks on US culturea are what sealed the daal for me. All of a sudden Europe became this sophisticated moral land of age old wisdom and "gray areas" while the USa was cast as some warmondering strutting cowboy with no experiece and yes a land where a 150 year old buld ing was "old."
So naturally I must ask if any of that really does matter, then please enlighten me what exactly did all of Europs finest 1300 year old cathedrals do while europes finest were starting global wars, clonizing the globe and yes building gas chambers and gulags?
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Originally posted by fd ski
http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/10/11/scarf.reut/index.html
I can't believe this !!! In the country of 200 year old cathedras !!!
Hello ? Kettle ? This is pot calling !!!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Now comapre that to Duedels reaction - he obivously wants to deny and forget and make others forget what his people did.
I won't speak of the rest of your post ,but I can say that this quote show that you never been in Germany nor had a discution with German people.
You are confusing with the Japanese , the German didn't try to hide or negate their crime And most of the average German now certainly better what happened in the past than the average American do.
Ps I won't waste my time again about the "Traité de Versailles" there is a search fonction in this BBS : use it
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So, when all theese bad things where happening, why didnt US join in the fights until Germany declerad War Against the US?
I tell you why, to many Nazi symphatisers in the congress and the senate.
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Originally posted by crabofix
So, when all theese bad things where happening, why didnt US join in the fights until Germany declerad War Against the US?
I tell you why, to many Nazi symphatisers in the congress and the senate.
Because the american public was isolationist and did not think the european war and hitler and his behavior were any of their business. It was a mistake.
However considering the fcat that you euros are doing this now I find your concern about the issue kinda funny.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
However considering the fcat that you euros are doing this now I find your concern about the issue kinda funny.
Comes from a man, runing of from former Communistic and dictatorruled Jugoslavia to a country where the KKK is still a legal organization?
If I where in your clothes, I keep the breadhatch closed in religeuse and politic matters.
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Originally posted by crabofix
Comes from a man, runing of from former Communistic and dictatorruled Jugoslavia to a country where the KKK is still a legal organization?
If I where in your clothes, I keep the breadhatch closed in religeuse and politic matters.
I don't know what is getting worse in this thread, the
spelling or the logic.
Rino
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So fine sophisticaded europe is also against freedom of speech - unlike the USA which even ensures that of disguisting groups like the KKK?
I guess the USA leads u guys in civil rights too.. :)
So lemme see Europe is against:
Guns
Free Speech
Private Proprety (high taxes)
America
Religion
Did we really win the cold war?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Because the american public was isolationist and did not think the european war and hitler and his behavior were any of their business. It was a mistake.
However considering the fcat that you euros are doing this now I find your concern about the issue kinda funny.
Exactly how do you expect anyone, especially someone whom unlike you has first hand experience of the real facts of how these things happen, to take you seriously when you make such a stupid generalisation?
America is nothing but KKK hooligans, nothing but closet materialistic pig dog capitalist neo nazi high school shooting spree maniacs then??
What is the reason you just hide under the carpet the fact that this perfect and sublimely innocent country is not built on indian graves?
Petty finger pointing, fantasmic BS.
Such behavior is to be expected from a chauvenistical nationalistic young intolerant inexperienced ignorant black/white thinking cowboy strutting place like the USA - but surely not from oh so sophisticated europe.. Right?
exactly, speak for yourself.
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Its not news to anybody that european colonilists came to the newcworld and wiped out the native populations, whats your point?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So fine sophisticaded europe is also against freedom of speech - unlike the USA which even ensures that of disguisting groups like the KKK?
I guess the USA leads u guys in civil rights too.. :)
Yes, you are right, you are leading us all the way in civil rights, history is showing us this.
We, the horrible EU´s and especially Swedes are so much behind the US when it comes to Democracy and Freedome all in all.
We do not allow any organisations that uses Nazi Symbols, even wearing a Nazi Symbol in the public would get you in jail or fined.
Our Laws dont allow anyone to generalize, calling specific Folkgroupes "thieves", "Murders" etc. This will get you in jail.
Yes, its not freedome of speak here and I am proud of it.
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Originally posted by crabofix
Yes, you are right, you are leading us all the way in civil rights, history is showing us this.
We, the horrible EU´s and especially Swedes are so much behind the US when it comes to Democracy and Freedome all in all.
We do not allow any organisations that uses Nazi Symbols, even wearing a Nazi Symbol in the public would get you in jail or fined.
Our Laws dont allow anyone to generalize, calling specific Folkgroupes "thieves", "Murders" etc. This will get you in jail.
Yes, its not freedome of speak here and I am proud of it.
You should talk with an iranian friend of mine - he lived through the revolution and would enlighten you on the importance of freedom of speech, especially unpopular speech. Before I was like you thinking that "bad" speech should be illegal but he opened my eyes as to evils of this strategy.
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how is it americans of today can wash their hands like you say, yet the average french citizen is responsible for what the govt does?
The church and state were separated in most countries, but a law following the same logic is wrong?
Don't be surprised no one wants to believe your point is well founded when you pair it with some analogy to something like nazi camps and gas chambers.
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Uhhm because that part of it was a bit of a troll - like I said in response to straffo.
However the general point I'm making holds. Its BS for europeans to claim =they have some moral superiority in rejecting the Iraq war....
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SOB don't back peddle for Grunherz, it's so much more amusing to watch him do it himself.
"I was only kidding... honest!"
Perhaps the most pathetic thing you can do on here, short of using CTRL+C, CTRL+V to make your arguments.
Anyway, is this yet another thread where a former Croat tries desperately to forget what his countrymen were doing only 10 years ago while painting a whole continent as gas chamber merchants?
BTW, Grunherz, what the British did in India or during the Boer war does not compare with what happened at Auschwitz. The concentration camps in the Boer war were not death-camps used to exterminate people. There was no British 'Final Solution'. Now, shall we take a look at what your next door neighbours were doing back in the early '90s?
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I mentined our civil war in this thread... Are you not capable of reading dowding?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
You should talk with an iranian friend of mine - he lived through the revolution and would enlighten you on the importance of freedom of speech, especially unpopular speech. Before I was like you thinking that "bad" speech should be illegal but he opened my eyes as to evils of this strategy.
I dont have to go to the US to speak with a guy that lived through the Iranian revulotion, I can just walk over to the next house and ask. He got away, cause he had a close relative that was the Iranian Ambassadur in US.
I can also ask the Guy from Bosnia, who lives aside of him, how he felt when he realized that the bus he and his mother sneaked of from during a stop, carried all the rest of his relatives to their death. They died because they where Muslims.
Ask them what they says when people want them to "get out of this country, you muslim" and ask them what they think about that this not being allowed to say in public, on television, in books, etc.
The freedome of speach, is not to generalize any folkgroups, by ethnic heritage, religon or colour.
You might think diffrently, but I don´t.
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So you mentioning it makes everything A-OK and validates everything you've said?
Oh dear.
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"The freedome of speach, is not to generalize any folkgroups, by ethnic heritage, religon or colour."
What about all the USA bashing you do? Some find that higly offensive. Where do I file charges?
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forget it, you're not even serious.
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Originally posted by Dowding
So you mentioning it makes everything A-OK and validates everything you've said?
Oh dear.
"Anyway, is this yet another thread where a former Croat tries desperately to forget what his countrymen were doing only 10 years ago while painting a whole continent as gas chamber merchants?"
It disputes your stement that I'm ignoring it or trying to make others forget. But you are right. Golly-geen those evil Africans who are responsible for the holocaust, ww1 and ww2....
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Originally posted by moot
forget it, you're not even serious.
Bingo.
Except for the overal point.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
What about all the USA bashing you do? Some find that higly offensive. Where do I file charges?
I have no reason to be bashing the US, I am telling you that this world is not perfect. Theres misstakes made everywhere.
Why cant you just understand that not the whole world are sharing your values?
Is it some kind of frustation, because you are not accepted like an "amerikkan" yet?
Or did someone pour concret in your sandbox when you where a child?
Or are you going on bashing Europe for the same reason the dog licks his wienner? Because he/you can?
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Originally posted by crabofix
I have no reason to be bashing the US,
:rofl
Do you really belive that?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
:rofl
Do you really belive that?
I have spent long periods in the US and I have more connections and assets there then you ever would dream of.
I might even have spent more time there then you.
Thats why I am intrested in what is going down.
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And of course the only reason I bash Europe so much is because I'm a true European patriot...
Doh, how did I firget that one.. :lol
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
And of course the only reason I bash Europe so much is because I'm a true European patriot...
Doh, how did I firget that one.. :lol
This is just taking the easy way out.
Shrud your shoulders and back away, laughing, but with the tail between your legs?
Are you affraid that to many people around this board might not back you up?
Affraid of getting banned or muffled?
If you are, STOP posting political stuff. Stop steering the pot around with your Trolls.
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That was more bait... If you remember most all the liberals on this board said a variation of that when they were USA bashing about the war... Why cant I do the same <--- True euro patriot here.
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Originally posted by Dowding
SOB don't back peddle for Grunherz, it's so much more amusing to watch him do it himself.
LOL, sorry, but I gotta appreciate the beauty of some of Groin's threads. This was simply fantastic:D: "You are a ****ing **** so kiss my arse you pathetic wannabe retard."
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Originally posted by SOB
LOL, sorry, but I gotta appreciate the beauty of some of Groin's threads. This was simply fantastic:D: "You are a ****ing **** so kiss my arse you pathetic wannabe retard."
The beauty in theese line, cant be repeated to many times:D
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But anyway carbofix you seem anxius to see me banned from the board. But then you say stuff like this:
"Why cant you just understand that not the whole world are sharing your values?"
Why do you want me silenced for expressing a different opinion?
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Originally posted by crabofix
We do not allow any organisations that uses Nazi Symbols, even wearing a Nazi Symbol in the public would get you in jail or fined.
Well
Better late than never, I always say!
:rofl
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Originally posted by Toad
Well
Better late than never, I always say!
:rofl
Well Actully not that late. A law was already made 1945, that prohibited the use of political Uniforms.
My GreatGrandfather worked for the "Göteborgs handels och Sjöfartstidning" and was a editor there during the wwII. He worked with Torgny Segerstedt, one of the Bigest Anti-Nazis in Sweden. The Newspaper was Anti-Nazi even before the war started. Everyone of the editors was on the "deathlist" that the Nazis had put up for the awaited German occupation.
So you kinda jumping the wrong guy on the Nazisubject.
So, how late are you guys gonna be?
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Was that law passed ... umm.... maybe 9 May 1945? :lol
We're not gonna ban them; we have this little thing about freedom of expression. Even if it is politically incorrect we'll allow it in most cases.
See, we're not really afraid of folks that wear Nazi uniforms. We figure if they cause much trouble, we know how to deal with that.
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Originally posted by Toad
Was that law passed ... umm.... maybe 9 May 1945? :lol
We're not gonna ban them; we have this little thing about freedom of expression. Even if it is politically incorrect we'll allow it in most cases.
See, we're not really afraid of folks that wear Nazi uniforms. We figure if they cause much trouble, we know how to deal with that.
The fright was not from people using Nazi-Uniforms as much as the fright for people starting to Use communistic Uniforms. Mao and Stalin made a great impression on the youth here during that time. Cold war begun.
But the law came in hand as soon as the Neonazis started to gather again, in the late 80´s.
No, I can see that the Use of a missinturperated indish symbol, made to a Swedish Family Shield, passed on to Finnish Airforce to hounor him and then adopted By his Brother inlaw to become the most despiced sympol in the world, could make any harm or effect anyone. Freedom of speech and expression, but if you went out naked in public, you would get arrested? ok, what ever..........
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Huh, this is one odd thread.
Almost every post in this particular thread was either attacking the history or current state of a country or defending it with all the power of a an animal attacking it's own reflection in a mirror.
Why?!?!
I dont think of myself in terms of being on one side of an imaginary line. Nor am I responsible for what my fore-fathers and mothers did or didnt do.
If you look in the mirror and see yourself as an American or Canadian or a Croation or an African or a European you need to rethink how you see yourself.
Nationalism is all well and good but not so excessive that it becomes a fault. Digging up old bones from a country's past doesnt help.
Posting a picture of a concentration camp is good though. We shouldnt forget or hide that stuff. However using such a picture in reference to a group of people is damned wrong. No one here killed any people at a concentration camp. And being European or German doesnt mean you condone it or are held responsible for it.
Cracking down on other people's heritage to make yourself the lesser of the two evils isn't right.
Grun smarten up.
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This will sound harsh and maybe it is.
Perhaps the uniforms don't bother us because we know that should it happen again or even start to happen again, we WILL act again.
Until then an old symbol is just an old symbol; sort of like an old picture.
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But people who wears shirt saying "Bush is terrorist" or something similar gets fired?
Yea, thats what I call freedom of expression.
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Document that please. There's certainly no federal law against it.
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Originally posted by Toad
Was that law passed ... umm.... maybe 9 May 1945? :lol
We're not gonna ban them; we have this little thing about freedom of expression. Even if it is politically incorrect we'll allow it in most cases.
I never understood the PC think ... like we said in French : "un chat est un chat" (a cat is a cat) whatever the name you give it ...
See, we're not really afraid of folks that wear Nazi uniforms. We figure if they cause much trouble, we know how to deal with that.
[/B]
Let hope you can.
Btw it's not a question (in my country) of being able to deal with that but more a legal question : it's forbidden not that we try to forget this period.
We do have lot of skeletton like Algeria war and so on we need collectivly to work on ...
Originally posted by loser
Huh, this is one odd thread.
Almost every post in this particular thread was either attacking the history or current state of a country or defending it with all the power of a an animal attacking it's own reflection in a mirror.
I do think I've not done that,I'm right ?
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This is just my opinion
The world has become to soft. Really it has..I say live your life the way you want(or the way your country wants) either way and if one country has a problem with the other. Pick up the gloves and duke it out.Force is the ultimate power
All countries have their high and low points in history, all countries have done bad things and good things who is more "morally" right is Irrellivant
So if you think those girl should or shoudlent of been booted out of school due to their belife or appearence clothing ect dues to some unjustice to them or the state ask yourself this..
Millions are starving,dying homeless you name it.where is your compassion for them? Gonna do something about it? And no if you think giving your .50cents a day to your chairity is not doing something about it..your just bribing them to shut the hell up and leave you alone..
Seems to me that many think kiddies and their scarfs are much more important than the millions dying of hunger and disease.
I dont either I could care less about the millions dying or the kiddies and their scarfs or what germany did early in the century or Japan or the middle east
So what if the Nazi's killed innocent Jews.
I wonder how much innocent people were killed when america dropped the nuclear bombs on Japan.
How many innocents were killed when British/Americans bombed German cities durring the war?
Or how many died when the russians invaded.
You can see where im going with this...
No ones hands are clean.and no ones hands are dirtier than the others
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Originally posted by SaRCaP
This is just my opinion
The world has become to soft. Really it has..I say live your life the way you want(or the way your country wants) either way and if one country has a problem with the other. Pick up the gloves and duke it out.Force is the ultimate power
All countries have their high and low points in history, all countries have done bad things and good things who is more "morally" right is Irrellivant
So if you think those girl should or shoudlent of been booted out of school due to their belife or appearence clothing ect dues to some unjustice to them or the state ask yourself this..
Millions are starving,dying homeless you name it.where is your compassion for them? Gonna do something about it? And no if you think giving your .50cents a day to your chairity is not doing something about it..your just bribing them to shut the hell up and leave you alone..
Seems to me that many think kiddies and their scarfs are much more important than the millions dying of hunger and disease.
I dont either I could care less about the millions dying or the kiddies and their scarfs or what germany did early in the century or Japan or the middle east
So what if the Nazi's killed innocent Jews.
I wonder how much innocent people were killed when america dropped the nuclear bombs on Japan.
How many innocents were killed when British/Americans bombed German cities durring the war?
Or how many died when the russians invaded.
You can see where im going with this...
No ones hands are clean.and no ones hands are dirtier than the others
I am in awe of this post. I didn't think anyone could be this
cynical and naive at the same time.
I'd like to point out that Germany and Japan both started
their respective wars, so whining about wartime casualties or
comparing them to the Holocaust seems ludicrous.
I wonder how blase you would be if your family was one of
the ones gassed? There are definitely greater evils, and claiming
otherwise is very foolish.
Rino
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Originally posted by Puudeli
But people who wears shirt saying "Bush is terrorist" or something similar gets fired?
Yea, thats what I call freedom of expression.
:rofl
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Sarcap there is a difference between the death camps and the yes terror bombing of the allies.
On one hand the Nazi policy was strictly aimed at killing the people- wiping out a racial cultural group - that was the means and the end. The allies saw the bombing as a strategy to end the war - rationale being to kill industrial workers and demoralize the poulation. The goal here was to end the war as quick as possible so the axis would stop occuying and terroriing the world.
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Originally posted by loser
Huh, this is one odd thread.
Almost every post in this particular thread was either attacking the history or current state of a country or defending it with all the power of a an animal attacking it's own reflection in a mirror.
Why?!?!
I dont think of myself in terms of being on one side of an imaginary line. Nor am I responsible for what my fore-fathers and mothers did or didnt do.
If you look in the mirror and see yourself as an American or Canadian or a Croation or an African or a European you need to rethink how you see yourself.
Nationalism is all well and good but not so excessive that it becomes a fault. Digging up old bones from a country's past doesnt help.
Posting a picture of a concentration camp is good though. We shouldnt forget or hide that stuff. However using such a picture in reference to a group of people is damned wrong. No one here killed any people at a concentration camp. And being European or German doesnt mean you condone it or are held responsible for it.
Cracking down on other people's heritage to make yourself the lesser of the two evils isn't right.
Grun smarten up.
I agree with everyting you said here. But seeing as how things went down regarding Iraq and all the shallow moralizing of euro leaders and arrogant protests aginst the cowboy USA I thought it appropriate to point out the fact that European people dont have clean hands either. Because cetainly that was the image they were trying to pass in criticizing the US "warmongering" in Iraq.
Especially whn they said thing invoking Europes old wisdom or such nonsense - I asked whewre that old wisdom was during ww2 or ww1, or colinal wars or in the yugo civil war, or the holocaust or communism.
So in fact we agree - nobody's hands are clean.
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Mormons wear holy underwear.
Are the French conducting underwear checks also in ordre to OUT the Mormons?
They just might discovery another underground religious movement much larger than all other religions combined... the Order of the Brown Skids.
I'm sure that will confuse the French and InterPol detectives for years.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I agree with everyting you said here. But seeing as how things went down regarding Iraq and all the shallow moralizing of euro leaders and arrogant protests aginst the cowboy USA I thought it appropriate to point out the fact that European people dont have clean hands either. Because cetainly that was the image they were trying to pass in criticizing the US "warmongering" in Iraq.
Especially whn they said thing invoking Europes old wisdom or such nonsense - I asked whewre that old wisdom was during ww2 or ww1, or colinal wars or in the yugo civil war, or the holocaust or communism.
So in fact we agree - nobody's hands are clean.
Now you start talking.
SO you are bashing on to the Euros because we didnt support The attack on IRAQ?
Shallow moralizing and arrogant protests?
Looking on to how the things are developing in the Iraq and the lack of the WMD´s so on, so on, it does´nt seam like the protests where that arrogant.
Even if the people in the USA belive that thier leaders cant do anything wrong, this is way diffrent in country´s like France, Greece and Germany.
To join in a unlegimate attack on a already beaten up country, just because "big daddy" say they got WMD´s, but no proof, would be political suicide.
The political turbelance in Europe would have been enourmus right now and maybe riots, fall of goverments, etc, etc.
Nato, is still alive, disturbed: yes, but still breathing. But it is dying and the last relic of the cold war is soon gone.
After the fall of the Soviet state and the Warzawa-pact, it is useless to keep it alive. The Cold war is old and soon only a couple of lines in the history books.
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I clearly said several times in this thread and others that my criticizm of europe is based on the WAY they opposed the Iraq war - if they wanna oppose war thats fine - like I said in this thread before. If thats new to you carbofix then perhaps you arent reading the posts and are just attacking me because you dont like my or what you percive are my views. My concern is the BS they used to justify their opposition instead of being open and honest about their national self interest in Iraq...
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Originally posted by crabofix
.....Looking on to how the things are developing in the Iraq and the lack of the WMD´s so on, so on, it does´nt seam like the protests where that arrogant.
Part of the mandate that brought the attack against Iraq concerned the ongoing attempts at development and procurement of Iraqi WMD. They are now beginning to unearth tons of data and lab equipment that was hidden to prevent it's discovery by UN Inspection Teams. Every day more scientists come forward as they realise the US and Britain will not abandon them and help to uncover more. While most of you see Iraq as a small country on the map., in realitty it is large and will take quite a while to find all the eveidence.
Even if the people in the USA belive that thier leaders cant do anything wrong, this is way diffrent in country´s like France, Greece and Germany.
That is an assinine statement, we do believe that our leaders make mistakes, but we also support them when they do and make attempts to fix them.
To join in a unlegimate attack on a already beaten up country, just because "big daddy" say they got WMD´s, but no proof, would be political suicide.
THe fact that the US has alreay uncovered tons of evidence of an ongoing bio and nuclear weapons program is enough to more than cover then legitamacy of the attack. But, maybe we could have waited until an actual weapon was used against a target, then gone into Iraq. That's so wonderful an idea, it is definitely European.... :rolleyes:
The political turbelance in Europe would have been enourmus right now and maybe riots, fall of goverments, etc, etc.
So what that says is that your governments are that shaky that this issue would cause anarchy on a national scale, that include the overthrow of a government? Further makes me glad that I am American and not European.
Nato, is still alive, disturbed: yes, but still breathing. But it is dying and the last relic of the cold war is soon gone.
After the fall of the Soviet state and the Warzawa-pact, it is useless to keep it alive. The Cold war is old and soon only a couple of lines in the history books.
Now isn't that just a Eurotrash comment. NATO is the reason that you are still free, and you would do best to remember that. That and it's continued commitment to the defense of it's member states from aggresion foreign and domestic will ensure it stay around a long time. Your own words stated that your governments are easily overthrown by riots, that alone should make you want to have troops to keep the peace. Does Bosnia ring a bell? Nato deployed troops there as well, but I guess allowing genocide is ok by most of you Europeans, hell it has never bothered you with what happened in Iraq.
It is amazing how this attitude pervades from Europe, one that says genocide in foreign lands is ok, so long as they continue to trade with us in oil for food and medicine deals. It further disgusts me that your expert opinions on finding WMD's state it must be done within 3 weeks of the war's end. I guarantee you they will find WMD's, or atleast determine where they went, but it is going to take time. TIme for the Iraqui people to realise that the Baathists are out of power for good, and that they need not fear the return of a police state that tortured and murdered MILLIONS of it's own people. Your European attitude disgusts me, and it disgusts a good portion of my country. Why don't you pull your heads out of your arses and look outside Europe and realise the world needs help.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
My concern is the BS they used to justify their opposition instead of being open and honest about their national self interest in Iraq...
You still believe in honest politician ? :rofl :rofl
Be serious please :)
Concerning self-interest ,sure the interest of those politician+businessman not the interest of their nation.
Note that it concern all the countries involved in this conflict not only one.
How did I end in the "Racist Biggot Ignore List " ?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I agree with everyting you said here. But seeing as how things went down regarding Iraq and all the shallow moralizing of euro leaders and arrogant protests aginst the cowboy USA I thought it appropriate to point out the fact that European people dont have clean hands either. Because cetainly that was the image they were trying to pass in criticizing the US "warmongering" in Iraq.
Especially whn they said thing invoking Europes old wisdom or such nonsense - I asked whewre that old wisdom was during ww2 or ww1, or colinal wars or in the yugo civil war, or the holocaust or communism.
European moralizing you say?
What about the stupid French bashing that went on constantly?
Things like France sucks and other equally intellectual discourse.
It sounded like an elementary school playground.
Both side bashed, so get on with your life.
Capitalism as its flaws just like Communism.
If you want proof of that, visit a ghetto.
Everything as advantages and disadvantages.
Nothing is perfect.
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An analogy....
If Iraq were the neighbor across the street, and this neighbor was a bully and notorious for beating up the neighborhood kids, notorious for sneaking into to next door neighbor's yards and stealing tomatoes, kicking their dogs, molesting their pumpkin patches.... oh yah.. and selling crack cocaine to grandmas...
Alright, so Iraq is a very very bad neighbor... and the "UN" is the local government (also the local police) made up of all the other neighbor's on the street (aka the other countries int he world)...
And this local government is a democracy... action is taken by majority vote... by free speech on the issues... and by the a willingness to be fair and to govern by law and rules.
So all the other countries in the world get together and vote to put Iraq under controll... and they do so... via the "gulf war" and the resolutions and restrictions which followed.
In such a democratic system, gives stability to the neighborhood because each neighbors knows that there are laws and rules that they all obided, and disbrutes between neighbors is settled not by "Might makes right", but by a system of laws that allows all issues to be considered using a "due process".
However, in this "lawful" system is a neighbor who is very powerful, very strong willed, arrogant, self righteous, professes democratic ideas, however, always wants their way, and uses their "Might", "Money", and coercines (overt and covert) to get their way.... and this country has done every evil that any other country has done... (slavery, oppressing women and children, racism, used WMD on their population [LSD, Nukes in Arizon and New Mexico, chemical warfare testing in Aberdeen, genicide [American Indians])... This neighbors initials are "USA" United States of Ice Holes.
So this USA goes to the democratic UN and says the neighbor Iraq is doing illegal things - we have no proof... but our spies tell us they are....
And there is a democratic vote to take action... and the due process says that there is no sufficient evidence that Iraq is doing anything wrong.
But the USA decides to be a vigilante... and take the "law" into their own hands... and guess what? there still is no evidence....
Would be nice if America were run by Vigilanties... then Might would make right... since the Majority of the people didn't vote for him... that would be the Majority of the people in the Right.
I would love to burn down some right wing zealots houses.... starting with the White House.... because the occupant of that house... has wiped his prettythang with the US constitution and brought disgrace to this country with his pompous arrogance.
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Making fun of France has nothing to do with moralizing - its just making fun of France.
The moralizing is what so many euro's did in protest of the war. All the calls of evil USA cowboy warmongering bullying unilateralism and how that was such an anethame to fine euro sensibilites about peace and international cooperatyion developed over thousands of years and such nonsense when europe does just the same stuff even after blowing itself up in ww2 and ww1 and then starting colonial wars after ww2 and dealing in arms and france unilatteraly continuing nuke tests, and unilaterally breaking from NATO allience to persue her own national self intrest to the detriment of others. So much BS...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
and unilaterally breaking from NATO allience to persue her own national self intrest to the detriment of others. So much BS...
Inexact.
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Originally posted by straffo
Inexact.
Yes you are right France did not leave nato and did not order out all nato allies from france...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes you are right France did not leave nato
Yep France did not leave.
and did not order out all nato allies from france...
Dunno
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My undersatnding is that france is not a full miliatary member of NATO..
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Originally posted by Spooky
Do you know that Chirac almost won the peace nobel prize ?
Did you know that Arafat won it in the early 90's? Really, I would not lie to you. ;)
President Bush was one of 156 candidates considered for the 2002 Peace Prize, which was awarded in October 2002 to former President Jimmy Carter.
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As far as I know France is not member of the what we call "commandement intégré" but I don't want to spend my evening reading about NATO's structures :)
I guess I'll try to read :
http://www.nato.int/acad/fellow/98-00/f98-00.htm
Especially this document : http://www.nato.int/acad/fellow/98-00/giglioli.pdf
Alessandra GIGLIOLI- Individual
Le Retrait de la France du Commandement Integre de l'OTAN.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
It is amazing how this attitude pervades from Europe, one that says genocide in foreign lands is ok, so long as they continue to trade with us in oil for food and medicine deals. It further disgusts me that your expert opinions on finding WMD's state it must be done within 3 weeks of the war's end. I guarantee you they will find WMD's, or atleast determine where they went, but it is going to take time. TIme for the Iraqui people to realise that the Baathists are out of power for good, and that they need not fear the return of a police state that tortured and murdered MILLIONS of it's own people. Your European attitude disgusts me, and it disgusts a good portion of my country. Why don't you pull your heads out of your arses and look outside Europe and realise the world needs help.
Now, you are saying the world needs help?
So you are stealing thier stuff away, is that helping? Do you want me to make a long, long, long, long, very , long list of Countries that you have been "helping" out of democracy to face torture, poverty, dictators?
SO The Aparthaid system in South-Africa was finelly beaten, but it was not by the help from the USA-UK. They supported this state and the system for ages. Was this helping? And tell me this was´nt a Policestate, how many people died under this period?
The sickest thing of it all is that: Your goverment actully supported the IRAQ´s and the Policestate that you are saying tortured and murdered millions. They even Supplied the Gas that was used against the kurds, the same gas that you guys cant find.
But that does not really matter, does it? It is irrilevant, because you say so? To me it is not irrilevant and it matters to me.
And can you tell me if thoose "3 weeks" gone by yet? Is the war over? Or is Your Goverment, declearing the "war over" just making another pathetic lie?
1200 persons with a 800 million dollar of budget, cant even come up with a tiny little WMD? Big country, my arse!
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Originally posted by crabofix
Now, you are saying the world needs help?
So you are stealing thier stuff away, is that helping? Do you want me to make a long, long, long, long, very , long list of Countries that you have been "helping" out of democracy to face torture, poverty, dictators?
SO The Aparthaid system in South-Africa was finelly beaten, but it was not by the help from the USA-UK. They supported this state and the system for ages. Was this helping? And tell me this was´nt a Policestate, how many people died under this period?
The sickest thing of it all is that: Your goverment actully supported the IRAQ´s and the Policestate that you are saying tortured and murdered millions. They even Supplied the Gas that was used against the kurds, the same gas that you guys cant find.
But that does not really matter, does it? It is irrilevant, because you say so? To me it is not irrilevant and it matters to me.
And can you tell me if thoose "3 weeks" gone by yet? Is the war over? Or is Your Goverment, declearing the "war over" just making another pathetic lie?
1200 persons with a 800 million dollar of budget, cant even come up with a tiny little WMD? Big country, my arse!
This is rediculous Crabofix. You claim that 1200 people searching a country of 437,072 square kilometers with an 800 million dollar budget should have found something by now? Well guess what, THEY HAVE.... THey have found mobile Chemical Weapons Labs. Literally tons of documents on how to process, manufacture, store, and employ Chemical, Biological, and Nuclear Weapons. They have found Cultures of Biological Strains that are chemical weapon related. ALL THINGS THE IRAQIS WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE. Yet this is not enough for the Eurotrash malcontents... THey want a smoking gun, well how about we wait until these terrorists take some of these WMD's that have OBVIOUSLY been dispersed and detonate a weapon in say London, or New York. Lets just see how you stunninghunks like living down wind from an incident like that. To say we acted prematurely and without cause is bullsh$t and you flipping know it. Any country or individual with enough commonsense could see where this was going, continued Iraqi aggression against civilians and the proliferation of their WMD technologies and weapons to terrorist groups. What the rest of the imbeciles whining about it are trying to achieve is to condemn the US and Britain for acting because it upset their applecart of oil for BLOOD. ANd thats what your trade amounted to, Oil for the BLOOD of the Iraqi people.
If you ask me, you should be ashamed for not acting in concert with us.
Oh, and as for saying we did nothing to end apartheid is a further lie, we helped with economic sanctions and Clinton helped to bolster talks to change the government.
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Originally posted by straffo
How did I end in the "Racist Biggot Ignore List " ?
Tu sais tres bien pourquoi Straffo.
Tu est Francais and tu n'est pas d'accord avec lui. :D
Je suis decu de toi Straffo. :p
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Mon dieu !
C'était tellement évident :D
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Originally posted by AVRO1
Tu sais tres bien pourquoi Straffo.
Tu est Francais and tu n'est pas d'accord avec lui. :D
Je suis decu de toi Straffo. :p
Il n'a rien à faire avec lui étant d'accord avec moi. Il l'a fait en raison de sa attitude raciste envers des personnes d'autres religions.
Mon Français ne peut pas être aussi bon qu'il était par le passé, mais je le parle, et habité à Paris pendant un moment en 1990.
Touche.
:D
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Grun, you were way outta line in many of these posts.