Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AKcurly on October 12, 2003, 06:30:43 AM
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Sent by the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, State of Michigan to Ryan DeVries. His response is hilarious, but read the State's letter before you get to the response letter.
quote:
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SUBJECT: DEQ File No.97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; Montcalm County
Dear Mr. DeVries:
It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental Quality that there has been recent unauthorized activity on the above referenced parcel of property. You have been certified as the legal landowner and/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity:
Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the outlet stream of Spring Pond. A permit must be issued prior to the start of this type of activity. A review of the Department's files shows that no permits have been issued.
Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is in violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, annotated.
The Department has been informed that one or both of the dams partially failed during a recent rain event, causing debris and flooding at downstream locations. We find that dams of this nature are inherently hazardous and cannot be permitted. The Department therefore orders you to cease and desist all activities at this location, and to restore the stream to a free-flow condition by removing all wood and brush forming the dams from the stream channel. All restoration work shall be completed no later than January 31, 2003.
Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed so that a follow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff. Failure to comply with this request or any further unauthorized activity on the site may result in this case being referred for elevated enforcement action. We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter.
Please feel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions.
Sincerely, David L. Price District Representative
Land and Water Management Division
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** This is the response sent back: **
quote:
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Re: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; Montcalm County.
Dear Mr. Price,
Your certified letter dated 12/17/02 has been handed to me to respond to.
I am the legal landowner, but not the Contractor at 2088 Dagget, Pierson, Michigan. A couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process of constructing and maintaining two wood "debris" dams across the outlet stream of my spring pond.
While I did not pay for, authorize, nor supervise their dam project, I think they would be highly offended that you call their skillful use of natures building materials "debris." I would like to challenge your department to attempt to emulate their dam project any time and/or any place you choose. I believe I can safely state there is no way you could ever match their dam skills, their dam resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, their dam determination and/or their dam work ethic.
As to your request, I do not think the beavers are aware that they must first fill out a dam permit prior to the start of this type of dam activity. My first dam question to you is:
(1) Are you trying discriminate against my Spring Pond Beavers or
(2) do you require all beavers throughout this State to conform to said dam request?
If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, through the Freedom of Information Act, I request completed copies of all those other applicable beaver dam permits that have been issued. Perhaps we will see if there really is a dam violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994 being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, annotated.
I have several concerns. My first concern is, aren't the beavers entitled to legal representation? The Spring Pond Beavers are financially destitute, and are unable to pay for said representation, so the State will have to provide them with a dam lawyer. The Department's dam concern that either one or both of the dams failed during a recent rain event causing flooding is proof that this is a natural occurrence, which the Department is required to protect. In other words, we should leave the Spring Pond Beavers alone rather than harassing them and calling their dam names.
If you want the stream "restored" to a dam free-flow condition, please contact the beavers, but if you are going to arrest them, they obviously did not pay any attention to your dam letter... they being unable to read English.
In my humble opinion, the Spring Pond Beavers have a right to build their unauthorized dams as long as the sky is blue, the grass is green, and water flows downstream. They have more dam rights than I do to live and enjoy Spring Pond. If the Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Protection lives up to its name, it should protect the natural resources (Beavers) and the environment (Beavers' Dams). So, as far as the beavers and I are concerned, this dam case can be referred for more elevated enforcement action right now. Why wait until 1/31/2003? The Spring Pond Beavers may be under the dam ice then, and there will be no way for you or your dam staff to contact/harass them then, in any language that they might understand.
In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention to a real environmental quality (health) problem in the area. It is the bears! Bears are actually defecating in our woods. I definitely believe you should be persecuting the defecating bears, and leave the beavers alone. If you are going to investigate the beaver dam, watch your step! (The bears are not careful where they dump!) Being unable to comply with your dam request, and being unable to contact you on your dam answering machine, I am sending this response to your dam office.
Thank You,
Ryan DeVries & The Dam Beavers
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:rofl
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Checked Snopes. There's been some minor alterations, but it actually happened. WOW
:lol
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LOL~!
:rofl
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The 21's century nazi's are the EPA... you will learn to fear those three letters like the IRS only worse... they are involved in every single facet of your life....
Even worse they are an agency filled with liberals (mostly women)who think that they are the only ones who know how nature works and what is good and bad for the environment.
lazs
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Originally posted by AKcurly
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In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention to a real environmental quality (health) problem in the area. It is the bears! Bears are actually defecating in our woods. I definitely believe you should be persecuting the defecating bears, and leave the beavers alone. ...
Thank You,
Ryan DeVries & The Dam Beavers
lol
Canada geese are far worse than bears. They congregate in packs and deficate all over sidewalks and parks.
(http://www.pnl.gov/pals/resource_cards/images/canada_geese.jpg)
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Good Read
:rofl
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This is just one of many similar situations involving the Michigan DNR, although this one is funny, it could get unfunny real fast if some mid-level DNR employee decided to take this peronally and make an example of Mr. Devries.
The Michigan DNR has unbelievable power to confiscate or dimminish the value of property and is not shy about using it.
And lazs, Michigan has had a very conservative Gov. and legislature for over a decade, unfortanatly it seems that erosion of private property rights is on the mind of all segments of government.
shamus
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The EPA is federal. Also... what most people don't realize is that no matter who is in power they have to enforce the laws that have been made previoiusly (if they even know about em) unless they want to go to the trouble to get them off the books...
when they try.... they are labled as "spoilers of the land, air and water and rapers of children"
Think about that next time you vote with the women for some law that is for your own good.
lazs
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I understand that the EPA is federal, I'm Just pointing out that its not just the liberals that you have to fear in this instance.
shamus
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Yes... I understand your point. I was explaining why tho that once the law is put on the books or the EPA is funded.... it is very difficult to get rid of or cut funding too. The laws and funding are all put there by liberals.
During Republican admins the funding is cut for the EPA and during the liberal admins the funding is increased. It is soenwhat fun to watch them come and go at the EPA depending on funding. In the last ten years I have dealt with 7 different people at the EPA for the same thing. Each has claimed that the previous one didn't know what they were doing and in that case... each has been correct.
lazs
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The 21's century nazi's are the EPA... you will learn to fear those three letters like the IRS only worse... they are involved in every single facet of your life....
lol ok the EPA is nazi. Guess who their commander in chief is??
like to fish or hunt? how about breathing? thinks kids should have asthma so factories can avoid upgrading pollution control equipment?
And all those evil WOMEN telling liberals how to vote. Sounds like someone has some "issues"
strk
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ROFLMAO:rofl :lol :rofl :lol
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What's the matter stk? see yourself there? You ever dealt with the EPA? No of course not, you believe all the ropoganda and besides.... your girlfriend said you should vote that way. Or... the girl you would like to be your girlfriend.
lazs
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Oh I agree with lazs about the EPA, being very dangerous, I just have learned over the years not to blame one party or the other totaly, they are normally in cahoots, the EPA was started by a Republican Pres after all :)
shamus
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What's the matter stk? see yourself there? You ever dealt with the EPA? No of course not, you believe all the ropoganda and besides.... your girlfriend said you should vote that way. Or... the girl you would like to be your girlfriend.
rofl you can't be for real
strk:rofl
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A classic.
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About the Canadian geese: there are too many of them and they are dirty. Unfortunately, I understand they are not fat enough to make a good roast.
MRPLUTO
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Anyone who has lived in So. Cal. for over 30 years can tell you that the EPA along with the AQMD has been wonderful. In the 70's eyes burned, lungs hurt, and the mountains were only a memory during the summer months. Now it is unusual to have the mountains hidden by smog. 2nd stage alerts are rare. Wildlife is returning to the local area.
I say keep up the good work.
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EPA was founded by Richard M. Nixon. Maybe his enimies list mentality lives on.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Anyone who has lived in So. Cal. for over 30 years can tell you that the EPA along with the AQMD has been wonderful. In the 70's eyes burned, lungs hurt, and the mountains were only a memory during the summer months. Now it is unusual to have the mountains hidden by smog. 2nd stage alerts are rare. Wildlife is returning to the local area.
I say keep up the good work.
MT is right here, while the EPA may not always do things that make people happy, their goal is to help the environment. If the political hats would stop meddling with the EPA, we might just get somewhere on helping the planet.
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They are nazis with absolute power. They may be a good idea and did good work that was needed but.. They are way overboard now.
It does indeed matter who is in power so far as funding the EPA is concerned... they are much more odius and powerful under liberal adms.
On my wastewater exam there has allways been a multiple choice question that asked who we work for. The answer had allways been the people.... The new answer is the EPA.
My daugterin law took a eustitician (if that's even close) exam that had the exact same question on it.
Most of the EPA people are women with no real experiance in the world.. they are students who burn with zeal and lack any fundamental knowledge about the bussineses they are regulating or the equipment. They will put nothing in writing and they will only be around a year or two anyway... their repalcement will change everything and tell you that everything you have done is wrong and that the previous epa person didn't know anything... they, of course will give you nothing in writing. When they finaly do... it is full of phrases from self help books that are meaningless at worst or vague at best...
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
they, of course will give you nothing in writing. When they finaly do... it is full of phrases from self help books that are meaningless at worst or vague at best...
lazs
Oh come on lazs! We are our own best friend.
:cool:
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thats an oldie but its definantly a goodie!
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The EPA ain't got nothing on Oregon. If you dig a hole in Oregon and let it sit for two years, it can officially be labled a wetland and no construction can occur within 200 yards of it. I understand why the law was created, but enforcement of it has been totalitarian. Drainage ditches are now wetlands. Quarries are now wetlands. Hell... it's Oregon... half the state is now officially a wetland. If any "exception" appears to be about to be issued, earth first makes it a point to inform the council making the decision that a smear campaign will follow shortly thereafter.
I'm all for the clean air acts as they sit. I wish some regulations on cars were a bit stiffer (since they contribute more than just about everything else combined). I'm also a big fan of attempts to clean up corperate waste streams. But, when it comes to land management and regulation, these guys have their heads so far up their collective tulips it isn't even funny.
MiniD
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I wonder if there was any follow up reply from the Enviromental Office?:D
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I smell urban phish... I mean myth.
Like I heard this story about 10 years ago.
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Originally posted by Mini D
The EPA ain't got nothing on Oregon. If you dig a hole in Oregon and let it sit for two years, it can officially be labled a wetland ...
Why would you dig a hole and let it sit for 2 years?
It would have to be a pretty big hole to not get filled in with sand within 2 years of being dug.
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Let's just say your question highlights how little thought went into the regulation itself and its impacts.
MiniD
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
I smell urban phish... I mean myth.
Like I heard this story about 10 years ago.
Looks real:
http://www.snopes.com/humor/letters/dammed.htm
MiniD
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yeah mt.... like that.. they actually used the word holistic (sp) too.
lazs