Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: qts on October 13, 2003, 01:29:26 PM

Title: New video card?
Post by: qts on October 13, 2003, 01:29:26 PM: I currently use a Gf4 4200 on my P4-2400 Shuttle. I mainly play Aces High and driving sims (TOCA, LFS). Would I see any improvement by purchasing a Radeon 9600?
Title: New video card?
Post by: Skuzzy on October 13, 2003, 01:57:39 PM: A 9600Pro? Yes.
Title: New video card?
Post by: qts on October 13, 2003, 03:48:44 PM: How much of an improvement would I see? Better than finding a second-hand Gf4 4600?
Title: New video card?
Post by: Replicant on October 13, 2003, 05:37:40 PM: qts, before purchasing any new video card, be sure to check out the prices at this website as there often very well priced:- http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/home/
Title: New video card?
Post by: Skuzzy on October 14, 2003, 07:41:04 AM: A 9600Pro is faster than a Ti4600. Performance gains will vary depending on the other components in your computer system, particularly the CPU and RAM bus speeds.
Title: New video card?
Post by: WhiteHawk on October 14, 2003, 12:44:56 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Replicant
qts, before purchasing any new video card, be sure to check out the prices at this website as there often very well priced:- http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/home/

HAHAHa..be careful, some of those pricers are pounds:rofl
Title: New video card?
Post by: Nilsen on October 15, 2003, 09:08:16 AM: http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031015/index.html
Title: New video card?
Post by: Replicant on October 16, 2003, 10:26:28 AM: Quote
Originally posted by WhiteHawk
HAHAHa..be careful, some of those pricers are pounds:rofl

That's cos qts is British... I think ;)
Title: New video card?
Post by: mora on October 16, 2003, 12:31:00 PM: I would wait for the AH2 final release and 9600XT. Your current card should be able to run AH2 fairly well, I have the same card.
Title: New video card?
Post by: Arlo on October 16, 2003, 01:35:28 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
A 9600Pro? Yes.

What about the slightly cheaper "plain jane" 9600? Blue collar family man ... 20 or 30 bucks ... a month or two of AH. :D
Title: New video card?
Post by: JB73 on October 16, 2003, 01:51:27 PM: hey all chk out my thread here:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98786

i was hoping to buy today at the latest tonight.

i know you are all ati fanbois here but some comments or suggestions would be welcome. (especially WHERE to buy from)
Title: New video card?
Post by: Arlo on October 16, 2003, 02:14:16 PM: Hey ... I'm gettin' feedback from Skuzzy here! Back off! :D
Title: New video card?
Post by: Skuzzy on October 16, 2003, 03:04:12 PM: Not crazy about the plain 9600. I think ATI made an error by slowing the memory down too much on that card.

Of course, if you wait another month, the 9600Pro's price should drop a fair bit as the 9600XT comes out.
Title: New video card?
Post by: Skuzzy on October 16, 2003, 03:05:45 PM: Quote
Originally posted by JB73
hey all chk out my thread here:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98786

i was hoping to buy today at the latest tonight.

i know you are all ati fanbois here but some comments or suggestions would be welcome. (especially WHERE to buy from)

The only people that wave the fanbois finger around are fanbois. Just FYI. :D
Title: New video card?
Post by: Arlo on October 16, 2003, 03:29:08 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Not crazy about the plain 9600. I think ATI made an error by slowing the memory down too much on that card.

Of course, if you wait another month, the 9600Pro's price should drop a fair bit as the 9600XT comes out.

Works for me, Skuzzy. We're talking income tax return time here anyhoo (aka "po' man's windfall" ... heh). Thanks! :D
Title: New video card?
Post by: JB73 on October 16, 2003, 03:30:35 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
The only people that wave the fanbois finger around are fanbois. Just FYI. :D
HAHAHHA Skuzzy.

but seriously i am about to the point im going to buy the MSI GF4Ti4600 for $170 off newegg.com

im just suprised noone else has any good sites to shop from.
Title: New video card?
Post by: Arlo on October 16, 2003, 03:44:53 PM: Radeon 9600 Pro AGP 128MB DDR w/ TV-Out & DVI

Part Number: 100437002

Lowest Price: $ 146.00

Rebates: (None)

PriceGrabber.com (http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=815096/mode=newgoto6/ut=d8a787cc4a3deeec)

ATI RADEON 9600 Pro
RADEON 9600 PRO - 2048 x 1536 Pixels - 128 MB

Overall Product Rating: —
Found at: 55 stores
Lowest Price: $147.99
Special Offer: $20 Mail in Rebate

Bizrate.com (http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/search.xpml?cat_id=405&prod_id=7577467&lp=2&mkt_id=11278936&rf=idf&url_id=348296)
Title: New video card?
Post by: Westy on October 16, 2003, 04:07:57 PM: (edited out the info on the Asus card. It's an SE version which is 64bit and not 128. Worst of the 9600 lot I believe)

My problem is I've not a clue as to what is a good card anymore. What ius compatabile with my system or whether my OS is supported or not. Abit, Asus, Nvidia, Diamond.... alll brand names I was used to and came to trust.

And man. Going to a duel boot system so I can use Win98Se for my old CH gear is gonna be a pita :(
Title: New video card?
Post by: Skuzzy on October 16, 2003, 04:35:05 PM: MWave is a good site to buy from. (http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/index.hmx?)
Title: New video card?
Post by: Nilsen on October 17, 2003, 02:06:38 AM: You can get the 9600XT here now for about 200$ incl taxes etc. so i guess you americans could get it cheaper than that. :aok

Im getting mine next week.... to bad i dont have a system to put it in yet.
:rofl
Title: New video card?
Post by: qts on October 17, 2003, 06:17:26 PM: Thanks, everyone, especially Skuzzy. I'm in no hurry; I'll wait for AH2.
Title: New video card?
Post by: dracon on October 17, 2003, 06:31:59 PM: Hmmm.......Currently a GeForce 3 user. New card soon, so tell me why not a 9700 or 9800?

Thanks! you may be saving me some time here
Title: New video card?
Post by: Drifter1234 on October 19, 2003, 09:56:36 AM: I am also looking to upgrade my video card and appreciate all this information.

My question is how do you know if you need to upgrade your power supply and cooling abilities of your system to meet the demands of the new system?

Thinking about getting the 9600 pro. Upgrading grom G4 MX 440 on a p-4 2.0 with 512ram 2100 Dell.

Thanks guys for all the usefull info.

Drftr
Title: New video card?
Post by: Skuzzy on October 19, 2003, 11:21:26 AM: The 9700 was/is based on the R300 ATI core. While being a rather incredible design, it had flaws. The 9800's R350 core increased the performance of vertex shaders, corrected a couple of issues, and increased stability.
Overall performance for the R350 is up due to a new layout design which allows the R350 to clock higher than the R300, while maintaining the power draw (keeping the heat down).

Quite frankly, very few systems can take advantage of the 9800Pro's performance. You need a good solid 2.8Ghz P4 (AMD users need even more due to the lack of SSE2 instructions, or an AMD chip that supports SSE2) or faster system to really be able to push this card near its limits.

Nothing wrong with the 9800Pro or 9800XT. Fine products and definately the fastest you can get right now. The price/performance difference between the 9600XT and 9800Pro is pretty extreme. A $75 to $125 difference for a 15% to 20% gain in performance is prety expensive.

Of course, if you buy a video card once a year or less, then the 9800Pro or 9800XT makes more sense as you are going to live with that card for a long time. If you buy every 6 months, then it makes sense to buy the 9600XT as in 6 months, there will be a much faster card available.

Power supply. If you buy the 9600XT, power will not be so much of an issue. The 9600XT does not need an external power plug, which means it meets the AGP bus specification of 48W or less on power draw. This is significantly less than the 9600Pro/9800Pro cards.
The 9600Pro or 9800Pro are hungry. If you run a 2.4Ghz (or equivalent) CPU or faster, with a high speed FSB, I would recommend the 430W Antec TruPower as a minimum.
Title: New video card?
Post by: JB73 on October 19, 2003, 09:34:50 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Of course, if you buy a video card once a year or less, then the 9800Pro or 9800XT makes more sense as you are going to live with that card for a long time. If you buy every 6 months, then it makes sense to buy the 9600XT as in 6 months, there will be a much faster card available.2

the last card i bought (the current GF MX440) i got over 2 years ago almost... cost me a cht load then like $110 (cht load relative to what i was buying i mean)

my question to you then is the Ti4600 i just bought i plan to not replace untill i do a complete sys upgrade in maybe 1.5-2.5 years.

will i be able to fly AH for that long with the Ti4600 ?
Title: New video card?
Post by: Skuzzy on October 20, 2003, 12:45:25 PM: Probably.
Title: New video card?
Post by: Nilsen on October 20, 2003, 12:53:57 PM: Skuzzy, are you saying that the faster 9600XT actually needs less power than the slower 9600PRO?
Title: New video card?
Post by: Westy on October 20, 2003, 01:36:28 PM: Thank you Skuzzy. That last tip regarding power concerns was especially noted and appreciated. I'll go for the XT as power MAY be an issue for me and I'd rather be safe than fried.
Title: New video card?
Post by: Arlo on October 20, 2003, 02:06:26 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen10
Skuzzy, are you saying that the faster 9600XT actually needs less power than the slower 9600PRO?

Sounds like it ... but more specifically it sounds like it draws it's power from the mobo where the pro needs an external power source (at what point can one have too many power strips off of one outlet? heh).
Title: New video card?
Post by: Nilsen on October 20, 2003, 02:15:29 PM: Alrightythen... guess ill find out when my 9600XT gets here sometime tomorrow. :)
Title: New video card?
Post by: Skuzzy on October 20, 2003, 02:47:10 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen10
Skuzzy, are you saying that the faster 9600XT actually needs less power than the slower 9600PRO?

Yes. Quite a bit less. The 9600XT uses a low-k dielectric core, which (in a nutshell) cuts power requirements substantially. I can't think of a good analogy to explain how this works and I don't know how to explain it without falling deep into techno land.

The 9600XT is based on the RV360 core and is the first GPU to make use of low-k dielectric technology in a video card. Suffice it to say, ATI has some sharp people, as NVidia has been beating thier head against this wall for over a year and still cannot get it to work.

The low-k design is also why the core can be clocked so high. Coming out of the chute with a 500Mhz core clock, with plenty of room to overclock is pretty serious. Considering the only other GPU that could be clocked that high was the NVidia 5800Ultra, and it needed an insane cooling system to help it run.
Title: New video card?
Post by: Arlo on October 20, 2003, 02:56:34 PM: Looks like I've just changed my mind from upgrading to a 9600 pro to upgrading to a 9600 xt. Upgrades are few and far between for me, usually.
Title: New video card?
Post by: bloom25 on October 20, 2003, 07:47:52 PM: The "Built by ATI" retail box Radeon 9800 (non-pro) is currently $249.99 at Circuit City. It performs similarly to the 9700 Pro.