Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mrblack on October 13, 2003, 03:22:42 PM
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Latest Developments
AP Photo
Sniper Defense Costs to Top $1 Million
(AP) - With the first trial in the Washington sniper case set to begin on Tuesday, the court-appointed lawyers for the two defendants have submitted nearly $900,000 in bills so far for reimbursement by Virginia taxpayers. The attorneys appear to be on their way to racking up the most expensive court-appointed defenses in Virginia history, though nobody keeps statistics on such matters. According to the Virginia Supreme Court, which keeps track of expenses incurred for indigent defendants, John Allen Muhammad's lawyers have filed for $401,785 through September. Lee Boyd Malvo's lawyers have filed for $478,677.
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Oh its just begun....wait til the appeals....and the costs to jail em, etc etc
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What a frustrating thing for the taxpayer. I suppose its unavoidable. If there was ever a case for a 2-bullet execution within 30 days of their capture, this one would have been it.
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Speedy trial?
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If they were child molesters... the prison system would have already take care of them just like it took care of Dalmer and that Catholic priest.
Vengence is mine sayith the Lord, aka Smith and Wesson.
GO NRA!!
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Not exactly Rude, I guess it mean : if they can run faster than a bullet they are innocent.
It's and old way of doing justice : itwas called "god jugdement" (jugement de dieu) in the midle age :)
Other technics were :
surviving a fall in a barrel
no sensation of pain when puting your hand in boiling oil
etc ...
It was a great period :lol
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Why does those murderers get so expensive lawyers appointed by the court itself?
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Well... unless they get the death penalty... a lifetime of incarceration is going to be far more expensive...
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Originally posted by Fishu
Why does those murderers get so expensive lawyers appointed by the court itself?
Because everyone in the US is entitled to a spirited defense and if they can't afford a defense lawyer, one is appointed to them by the courts. The cash reciepts aren't for the public defender's salary...they recieve a paycheck like anyone else...most likely this is for costs associated with doing lawyerly stuff like rouding up witnesses and experts and paying to have women in stiletto'd heels stomp on their genitalia. I know Nimitz is particularly fond of this last one! :p
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Originally posted by SOB
Because everyone in the US is entitled to a spirited defense and if they can't afford a defense lawyer, one is appointed to them by the courts. The cash reciepts aren't for the public defender's salary...they recieve a paycheck like anyone else...most likely this is for costs associated with doing lawyerly stuff like rouding up witnesses and experts and paying to have women in stiletto'd heels stomp on their genitalia. I know Nimitz is particularly fond of this last one! :p
I'm shuure they could've used cheaper lawyers :confused:
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Originally posted by Fishu
I'm shuure they could've used cheaper lawyers :confused:
but the media payout is far greater. Hence a lawyer will give himself to this "innocent" person and he can do whatever the hell he wants. lawyers and politicians bout as good as they come over here.
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Originally posted by Fishu
I'm shuure they could've used cheaper lawyers :confused:
The lawyers are public defenders - they get paid a yearly salary, whatever it is. Their pay is the same regardless of who they're defending. The money they're spending isn't going in their pockets, it's going for expenses used for building a defense. I doubt their salaries are even worked into the #s in the original post. The DC Snipers got these lawyers because they are in the public defender's office in the state/city they're being tried in.
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Originally posted by SOB
The lawyers are public defenders - they get paid a yearly salary, whatever it is. Their pay is the same regardless of who they're defending. The money they're spending isn't going in their pockets, it's going for expenses used for building a defense. I doubt their salaries are even worked into the #s in the original post. The DC Snipers got these lawyers because they are in the public defender's office in the state/city they're being tried in.
So in other words, they've been buying all the evidence out of liquor stores..?
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Fishu shouldnt you be suprised that the evil forces in the USA you are complaining about just havent abolished the US legal sytem and had these two obviously guilty men shot on sight?
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Well you could always elect a islamic fanatic to president, that would fix that problem :D
(joke)
guess that is the price we have to pay as democratic countries, and its worth it in my opinion.
Its after all just money, but it sucks yes
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I would guess that a lot of the cost is due to the fact that the investigation involved crime scenes in 3 different states, plus investigations in Jamaica and Bermuda. That's a lot of travel expenses and hotel bills.
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Why is it so expensive? Because sometimes law enforcement gets the wrong person. Think Richard Jewel.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Fishu shouldnt you be suprised that the evil forces in the USA you are complaining about just havent abolished the US legal sytem and had these two obviously guilty men shot on sight?
leave your nationalistic bull**** away from this, thank you and good bye.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
What a frustrating thing for the taxpayer.
I don't mind. Really. Out of all the crap I pay taxes on, this doesn't bother me in the least (now, the new TVs in the "Comuuter Stores", well... ). But if there were ever two guys I want to have a fair trial, it's these two. I don't want anything about this trial coming back to bite me in the ass. Take all the time and money you need. Give those two nutcases the best defense you can. They are still going to lose, and if everyone does their job, they won't have grounds for an appeal (not that this would stop them from filing one, but I digress).
-Sik
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Court appointed lawyers and public defenders are not the same thing.
As for why this case is so expensive.... it covers 5 states on the east coast, 1 state on the west coast, involves thousands of officer's testimony, hundreds of witness testimonies, and litterally rooms full of paperwork. The ammount of people needed and the amount of travel needed has got to be imense.
When these two guys are getting lethal injections, no Americans will be able to use "they didn't have a proper defense" as an excuse for the sentance.
MiniD
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They should just drop 'em in a pool of water. If they float to the surface they should be burned. Oh yeah, the snipers too. ;)
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Originally posted by Mini D
When these two guys are getting lethal injections, no Americans will be able to use "they didn't have a proper defense" as an excuse for the sentance.
MiniD
Except Je$$e Jackson, Al $harpton and the ACLU... :D
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Hey Fishu about your post, I am actually surprised that you at laeast didn't give this country a WTG on our laws even extending to the fcat that we give people accused of such crimes with so much evidence against them a fair chance at quality legal defense counsel... My percetiopn has been that you are not excatly quiet when you have some criticizms of the USA but when we do something good you are not as happy to say so.
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Grunherz,
I don't understand why you always think it's criticism against US if I'm saying or wondering something.
Look, you brainless ****, I have some good friends over the net in US, so I don't have any need to be constantly critisizing EVERYTHING possible in US.
So excuse me my amazement on that why their lawyers are able to spend so much money, I don't understand how you can turn that into politics.
Now get off my back and get a grip and stop assuming more than you need to.
This is getting really old from you.
If you don't, I assume it's your way of getting your kicks and if so, you'd deserve to be ignored for good due to nothing good coming out from your direction.
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Fishu,
I'll say this very carefully so you can understand and then you'll have to figure out wether you're here because you're simply fond of critiquing America or you really want to know the answer to your question:
A court appoints an attourney to defend people in capital crimes when no other lawyers step forward to take the case. There are fixed rates that are billed based on hours spent on the case and the number of people working on it. The defense is obligated to review all of the evidence in order to offer up the best defense possible. That means they have to review the notes of police officers, the notes of FBI agents, every form filled out whenever someone took a phone call pertaining to the murders, interview as many people involved as possible and review all the evidence. Stop and think about how many murders were committed, how many police officers were involved, how many FBI agents were involved, how many different locations these crimes occured at, how many different pieces of evidence there were and generally how much is involved with this case. That takes resources to research properly. Those resources cost money. It really is that simple.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Well... unless they get the death penalty... a lifetime of incarceration is going to be far more expensive...
How so?
Actually if this ends up as a death penalty case and he's found guilty, I'd be surprised if it were less expensive. The legal fees alone on all the appeals (probably used) would make this far more expensive. Because of the complexity of this suspect's cases (alledged multiple murder victims), each appeal will be going in the millions. He'll probably be put to death in about 15-20 years my guess if he actively uses all of his legal options.
If he decided (if offered) to accept life behind bars without the option of parole, it'll be cheaper to the tax payer.
BTW on a personal note, if he's actually guilty of those "sniper" murders, I don't mind my extra tax dollars on his defense to put that scumbag to death. The price we as a society pay to live in our country.
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Why are you being so hostile Fishu. Maybe I can undersand after the first post I wrote but not after the second one, espacially since its such a broad hostility coming from you. What am I to make of it?
But back to the topic at hand, do you agree that this is a very humanitarian thing to do - to provide even those who may not be millionaires themsleves with excellent legal representation?
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Originally posted by SaburoS
How so?
Actually if this ends up as a death penalty case and he's found guilty, I'd be surprised if it were less expensive. The legal fees alone on all the appeals (probably used) would make this far more expensive. Because of the complexity of this suspect's cases (alledged multiple murder victims), each appeal will be going in the millions. He'll probably be put to death in about 15-20 years my guess if he actively uses all of his legal options.
If he decided (if offered) to accept life behind bars without the option of parole, it'll be cheaper to the tax payer.
BTW on a personal note, if he's actually guilty of those "sniper" murders, I don't mind my extra tax dollars on his defense to put that scumbag to death. The price we as a society pay to live in our country.
I guess I should have added... A lifetime of incarceration will cost more than $400K per... but yeah... you're probably right. It's expensive no matter how we slice it up.
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Grunherz,
Why? wasn't it clear already.
I've had enough of your hostility towards me, when you're always saying how I'm critisizing america whenever possible.
Getting really old when I can't have a break of your blatant assumptions.
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Well I guess that answers it fishu. You'd simply like to argue with Grunhurz and pretend its all his fault.
MiniD
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Thx for the info mini...I thought PDs and court appointed lawyers were the same thing.
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Congress has the power to end this type of thievery by passing some serious tort reform. It will never happen because most politicians are lawyers.
I have always felt that lawyers are the larval form of politicians.
Regards, Shuckins
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What I would like to see is a comparison on how much money the prosescution compared to how much the defense uses.
untill i see how much it is costing to put them away I cant say the defense is using to much miney
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Originally posted by AKIron
They should just drop 'em in a pool of water. If they float to the surface they should be burned. Oh yeah, the snipers too. ;)
"What also floats?"
"A duck!"
"Exactly! so therefore,..."
"If .. she... weighs as much as a duck,... she's made of wood?"
"And then?"
"A witch! Burn her!"