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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: davidpt40 on October 14, 2003, 01:54:13 PM

Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: davidpt40 on October 14, 2003, 01:54:13 PM
In California (sierra nevadas) there is a crash site of a very rare aircraft, the B-17C.  This model of the B-17 did not have any power turrets, nor a tail turret.

In November of 1941, this B17C took off from some mid-western state to fly to California to have its #3 engine replaced.  The engine had been causing some trouble.  

Well the pilot (no co-pilot on board) flies into a gigantic snow storm.  Turbulence is very bad, hes flying on instruments.  Then the #3 engine goes out.  Now heres some trivia for you aviation buffs- Which engine on early B-17s powered the instrumentation?  The #3.  So the pilot is flying in 0 visibility, no instruments, 3 engines, and the turbulence is so horrible that rivets are popping out of the fuselauge.  

The pilot orders all the crew to the waist section of the aircraft to stand-by to bailout.  He then orders the crew to bailout.  But the airframe is so twisted and bent from turbulence that the escape hatch is smashed shut.  The pilot, despite his best efforts, finally gets vertigo and the plane goes into a spin.  

As the crew is beating on the escape hatch trying to get out, the entire tail section of the B-17C rips off and the crew is somehow (massive g forces I would guess) able to bail out.  But the poor old pilot never made it out.

Due to this crash, Boeing re-designed the B17 to withstand turbulence better and to also have multiple back up systems for the instruments.   Guess what happened 1 month later?  Largest war in history broke out.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Octavius on October 14, 2003, 01:58:08 PM
Well, actually that war had started 2 years and 2 months before.

Where'd you get that story from?
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Curval on October 14, 2003, 02:41:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Octavius
Well, actually that war had started 2 years and 2 months before.


No way Oct.  That is Checkoslovak/Polish/British and French propaganda...clearly the war STARTED when American got involved.

 :rolleyes:
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: muckmaw on October 14, 2003, 03:05:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
No way Oct.  That is Checkoslovak/Polish/British and French propaganda...clearly the war STARTED when American got involved.

 :rolleyes:


Well, it did for us...

hehe
Title: Re: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Furball on October 14, 2003, 04:39:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
Guess what happened 1 month later?  Largest war in history broke out.


WOOHOO Hollywood education system is working
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Chairboy on October 14, 2003, 06:41:35 PM
Right after it broke out, Davy Crocket took his band of Rough Riders deep into the heart of Germany.  After defeating Napoleon, they stormed Hitlers bunker and killed him and the Kaiser.

President Wilson awarded him the Medal of Honor, immediately before being shot by Jack Ruby.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Octavius on October 14, 2003, 07:05:07 PM
lol!  I didnt mean to flame the guy.  =]

I was curious as to where the B17 bit came from.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: davidpt40 on October 14, 2003, 07:06:24 PM
Story is from History channel show called "Broken Wings".

As for the war starting- If you guys were capable of following the context of the story, then it would have made sense to you.  The U.S. was the first country to use the B-17 in combat.  The B-17 first saw combat on December 7th, 1941 which *gasp* is when the U.S. entered the war.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Octavius on October 14, 2003, 07:20:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40...
Story is from History channel show called "Broken Wings".

As for the war starting- If you guys were capable of following the context of the story, then it would have made sense to you. The U.S. was the first country to use the B-17 in combat. The B-17 first saw combat on December 7th, 1941 which *gasp* is when the U.S. entered the war.
[/b][/i]

well if ya wanna get snippity about it....

It still doesnt make sense.  No where in that story does it mention the US being the first to use the B17 or that the B17 even saw combat.  How is an average reader going to deduce that the B17 saw service with the US from that snip?

Besides, the terms "broke out" imply the war in general first started at that date.  The only mention of the war is at the end and no other place.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: WOZ30BAT on October 14, 2003, 07:40:00 PM
Why on Earth would you fly a plane with a screwed #3 engine (that powered everything evidently) let alone any engine that was bad??? Couldn't send the engine to the plane & not vice versa???
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Black Sheep on October 14, 2003, 08:44:05 PM
don't be a complete tool oct.
treat people with a little regard
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Octavius on October 14, 2003, 09:27:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Black Sheep
don't be a complete tool oct.
treat people with a little regard


um, and who are you?

re-read the thread.  he attacked our reading capabilities first.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: davidpt40 on October 14, 2003, 10:04:18 PM
Quote
re-read the thread. he attacked our reading capabilities first.


You sir, are insane.  Please quit disgracing the board with your juvenile attacks.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Octavius on October 14, 2003, 10:05:35 PM
You're saying your comments werent the least bit snide?  I'm not supposed to react to them?
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Slash27 on October 15, 2003, 03:53:56 AM
Thanks for the story David. I caught the end of that show and missed that part.




um, and who are you?  Is this your message board?
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: straffo on October 15, 2003, 04:49:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
Story is from History channel show called "Broken Wings".

As for the war starting- If you guys were capable of following the context of the story, then it would have made sense to you.  The U.S. was the first country to use the B-17 in combat.  The B-17 first saw combat on December 7th, 1941 which *gasp* is when the U.S. entered the war.


I though the first combat sortie was done by the brit but I can be wrong ...

Look like I was right  for once :

Quote

The RAF planned to use the Fortress I on unescorted daylight bombing
raids against targets in Europe, relying on the vaunted defensive
firepower of the Fortress to fend off fighter attacks.  The first
sortie with Fortress Is was flown from Polebrook on July 8, 1941
against Wilhelmshaven.  Three planes took part.  Engine trouble forced
one of the planes to divert to a second target, but the other two went
on to attack the naval barracks at Wilhelmshaven from an altitude of
30,000 feet.  Unfortunately, the planes were not able to hit anything
from such extreme altitudes.  In addition, their crews found that the
temperatures at this altitude were so cold that their defensive
machine guns froze up when they tried to fire them.  However, all
planes returned safely to base.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: davidpt40 on October 15, 2003, 06:18:38 AM
Wow you are right straffo.  I knew about the British using the Fortress 1s, but I assumed it was in early 1942.

I know the Brits also had a disastrous raid with Fort 1s in which they abandoned the aircraft completely.  Not sure if this was late 41 or 42 now.

But just to be safe, Dec 7 was the first time the U.S. engaged the B17 in combat.  I believe it was also the first time B17s were shot down in combat (unless the disastrous British raid occured before Dec7).
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: straffo on October 15, 2003, 06:38:33 AM
I'm sorry David I forgot to paste the link of the page where I found this : http://www.fscwv.edu/users/rheffner/b17/index.shtml

Lotsa information here.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Curval on October 15, 2003, 07:16:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
You sir, are insane.  Please quit disgracing the board with your juvenile attacks.


No..you Sir started the attacks calling Oct juvenile and your initial thread stated that "the largest war in history broke out."

You were wrong...admit it and move on.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Octavius on October 15, 2003, 11:09:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
um, and who are you?  Is this your message board?


Perhaps I should clarify:  "Um, and who are you [to enter an exchange between two people]"  In otherwords, it doesn't concern him.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: firbal on October 15, 2003, 11:18:49 AM
Some of the lessons learned from the Brits use of the Forterss was incoperated into other models. They were the first to use the B-17 in combat. Not many, but a few. I think that if it weren't for the Brits use of them early, the mods made wouldn't of been added when we needed them. Lessons learned late.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: mos on October 15, 2003, 11:40:33 AM
You're both idiots.  One, for erroneously thinking that it was chance that the war broke out only one month later, since it was highly likely the US was going to join in soon, anyway, and two, for taking offense at what should be standard fare by now: one of us americans thinking that the world revolves around us.
Title: Wild B-17C Ride
Post by: Octavius on October 15, 2003, 11:46:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mos
You're both idiots.  One, for erroneously thinking that it was chance that the war broke out only one month later, since it was highly likely the US was going to join in soon, anyway, and two, for taking offense at what should be standard fare by now: one of us americans thinking that the world revolves around us.


You're an idiot too :D  You go beyond the initial conversation.  If you dont stick to the initial post and ONLY what is written (no insinuations, prior knowledge of actual events, etc...), then nothing posted after that will make sense either.  

it's a small insignificant issue that i chose to debate... send me to the firing squad.

and anyone and everyone who posts beyond this is an idiot too :D

I'm done.