Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Thrawn on May 18, 2001, 08:19:00 PM
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A friend of mine was trying out AH. He's red/green colour blind and needless to say, he was somewhat frustrated that he found it very difficult to tell the difference between enemies and friendlies. I was wondering if HTC could make it possible to customize or change the colours of the icons.
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Forget is Thrwan. This has always been a major problem that on one in the Gaming Industry understands.
If you have it you will never get a job. If you have a job you'll never understand it.
It's not going to change and they insist in excluding 15% of there potenional customers.
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CO - 111th Fighter Group
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That's just not true Otto.
HTC has never said they wouldn't do something to help those with red/green color blindness. They haven't done it YET, but that doesn't mean it's not on the list. There may be technical reasons why it's difficult, but it can be done. I know solutions have been found before, and you may see a solution in AH one day. It's not fair to just say "forget it" when you don't even know if HTC is planning on doing something about it.
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://lephturn.webhop.net) for AH articles and training info!
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I don't like banging my own posts but Lep you said:
"It's not fair to just say "forget it" when you don't even know if HTC is planning on doing something about it."
Sorry, but I don't have to prove a negative.
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CO - 111th Fighter Group
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It is a major problem for me. I've got a headache right now from trying to see the icons, and had to log because of it.
anRky
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It can be done, WB did it a few versions ago, and you can adjust them from black to white.
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It happens to me a *little* bit when the red icons show on the green backround of the earth. Thats why I never really liked to BnZ unless its a different color in the dive =] The icon fades away and I overshoot (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I've trained myself to see it fine now, but some nights its just annoying.
Oct
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It really affects me also.
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Yup, been colourblind ever since I was born... gives me a hard time in AH too, especially @ dawn or Dusk.
Ask my squaddies, I never know where I'm going anyway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Saw
[Mass]
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While user configurable colors would be _extremely easy_, I do think your friend will have easier time once he learns icons for each plane type. That is '190' prolly isn't a friendly though he might not be able to tell the color ( no idea how color blindness works ). When a plane type icon isn't showing I guess he is out of luck for the moment.
// fats
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Originally posted by fats:
...I do think your friend will have easier time once he learns icons for each plane type. That is '190' prolly isn't a friendly though he might not be able to tell the color ( no idea how color blindness works )...
Not sure what you mean by this, Fats, as all sides have access to any aircraft in the game. So that 190 could just as surely be a friendly as an enemy...
What about flying with Friendly Icons Only? It would be a distinct SA disadvantage for your friend, but at least it would clearly distinguish between friendly and enemy a/c.
With time and practice, I think a person could learn to be effective even with enemy icons turned off. In the meantime, you could help your friend greatly by winging with him and help him ID enemy a/c. It'd probably be more fun and successful for him to wing with a trusted friend inthe environment anyway...
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*puts a candle and prays for this beaten horse*
Aye fellow color blind brothers! I can tell red and green apart, but when they mix (especially when they move) it becomes a blur or plain dissapear.
I LOVE the nights because thats when I can SEE everything AND others are as blind as I was during the daytime. GIMME A P-38M (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Some folks say that vid cards allow you to change colors, that is true, but it changes ALL colors. And I tell you, flying in a purple landscape with pink sky is NOT good for your health. Advil made a lot of money the week I tried that.
besides, we can make someone's icon turn white (wingman) or an annoying light orange (again, dissapears) for squad highlight. Why isnt it possible to change ENEMY icons to a certain color? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Originally posted by Otto:
Sorry, but I don't have to prove a negative.
The only thing you have done is prove that you can whine. Havent seen a post where you have requested a change to rectify this problem. Or even a query on the status of this in the "to do" list. For the benefit of the people with red/green probs I hope that HTC can make a change in the future too.
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fats:
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I do think your friend will have easier time once he learns icons for each plane type. That is '190' prolly isn't a friendly though he might not be able to tell the color ( no idea how color blindness works ). When a plane type icon isn't showing I guess he is out of luck for the moment.
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For me, the problem isn't so much telling the red icons from the green ones (the green ones look yellow to me), but it's *reading* the red ones at all. Not only against the green ground, when they're almost impossible to read, but against the blue sky as well, where the red text and the blue sky seem to blur into each other.
And I can see the enemy 'dots' at a distance, but when the dot goes from one pixel to to two or more, it effectively dissapears for me, until it gets really close. So I have to watch the text, instead of the plane, and the text is very, very hard to read.
In AW, the only color combination I could use was green for one enemy country, yellow for the other (both of these looked yellow to me), and white for the country I was on.
anRky
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The problems of color blindness have always been a problem in computer gaming (well, since VGA anyway). It is very understandable in some instances, why game designers have trouble adapting their games to be more adjustable. AH however, should have no problem adding an option for adjusting the icon colors.
I understand its not a 5 minute fix, but I for one would be happy to delay 1.07 another few days to help out those who have difficulty with the current colors.
(http://web.tampabay.rr.com/2late4u/images/Animation.gif)
[This message has been edited by 2Late4U (edited 05-19-2001).]
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Well said 2Late4u. I agree wholeheartedly. Maybe some of the other selfish ones would be a little more understanding if they had were suffering from an ocular handicap.
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Live with it ....
I've done it since about one year ...
(btw a good wingman help a lot (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
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I am the same as Tac. I can tell red and green apart, even the red and green used in AH. However, when looking on the map or chasing low bandits, the red seems to "fade away"
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Wing up, Get kills, Be happy!
Midnight CO
412th FG "Braunco Mustangs"
The 412th is actively seeking P-51 Mustang pilots. E-mail me for more information davidlj@charter.net
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I apologize that we have not addressed this as of yet. I know I've said this would be addressed a few times in the past.
One question for the color blind while we're on the subject- Is the problem only with the aircraft icons? Is the radio text a problem as well and are there any other problem areas?
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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For me it is the icons and map dots and bars that are the problem.
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Pyro, the colors need to be user adjustable for HUE and brightness. The WB brightness control was insufficient.
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Thanks the info Pyro, I had too much wine last night and this topic is my only real 'Hot Button'. I got a little carried away (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) Sorry Pyro and Lep.
I can only speak for myself, but yes it's generally a problem everywhere but worse when red/green are close together.
Most of us can't explain it because we've had it all our lives and we've got nothing to compare it too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) We just hate to have those two colors used together.
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CO - 111th Fighter Group
[This message has been edited by Otto (edited 05-19-2001).]
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Ok, thanks for the info. You will be able to select the RGB values for both friendly and enemy colors(icons, sector bars, radar dots, field colors) in 1.07. That will let you make it any color you want.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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wicked pyro! Thanks!
To answer your Q: for me the radio is a-ok, since it has a black background, so the letters do stick out. plus it has the non-moving cockpit background on it too. If I place the text buffer on the top of the screen, I wont be able to read it if it doesnt have the blue sky in its background..the moment it goes below horizon it becomes unreadable. but heck, who puts the text buffer to block the view during a fight anyway? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Also, could the squad highlight color also have a RGB bar? that light orange is completely invisible when the squaddie is not flying straight and level.
Thanks Pyro!
added: Will the color of con dots be changeable as well? black dots on greenish background do "fade" a lot of times. you can be following a dot trying to get into range and it will just dissapear, then it will suddenly fade into view again and a sec later the icon comes up.
oh and what the guy below me said! <S>
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 05-19-2001).]
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Now THAT is customer service!
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Heh. Now you guys see why I was trying to get y'all to give HTC the benefit of the doubt on this? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
They are very busy folks with an incredibly short development cycle. However, despite that, they tend to be very responsive to their customers. THIS is why we need to give 'em the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. They can't do everything at once, but they still churn out upgrades at an amazing rate. <S>
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://lephturn.webhop.net) for AH articles and training info!
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Pyro:
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You will be able to select the RGB values for both friendly and enemy colors(icons, sector bars, radar dots, field colors) in 1.07. That will let you make it any color you want.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you Pyro!
anRky
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Damn that's fast service! Thanks HTC!
Thanks for the idea oboe, I'll suggest it to my friend for use, until 1.07 gets out.
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That's great news Pyro! I always like that feature in AW.
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Exile
Tard Extraordinaire
SIMLADDER.COM (http://aceshigh.simladder.com/)
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Outstanding!
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CO - 111th Fighter Group
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its when icons are low and have terain behind them red seems to hard to see. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
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After reading this post I have to say…
Hats off to HTC.
<S> Pyro
What a wonderful game this is to play and be apart of.
Zippatuh
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<S> Pyro thanks big time, mainly it's been a prob. for me reading red icons, but also the orange squaddie type's been tuff.
You da man
kidcol
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Pyro, thanks a lot! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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me too i tired of chasing squadies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
went to top of post< (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)~
[This message has been edited by Geeb (edited 05-22-2001).]
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Darn,
Thrawn, AnRky, Saintaw and Otto have been flying with a handicap so far!
Were all in trouble when 1.07 comes out!
eskimo
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I never knew people had such problems. Feel sorry for you guys. I can see the colours perfectly, can't imagine how it would be if I couldn't. Excuse my ignorance and for being a bit off topic, but does this red/green blindness affect your ability to see traffic lights too?
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Don't thank me, I didn't have to write it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
RG, here are samples of tests given to check for it. A lot of people never realize they have a problem with it until they're tested for it. The term "color blindness" is misleading as to what is actually is.
http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html (http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html)
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Hot damn!
Check the dates gents.
Thrawn's first post is 05-18-2001 08:19pm.
Pyro's "You will be able to select RGB color" post is 05-19-2001 11:47am!
I'm PROUD I picked this game 6 months ago, choosing from AH, WB and AW (R.I.P.). And I'd be damned if I'd not make the same choice again!
Even after 4 years being a member of the Open Source Foundation, I have seldom seen such a quick response.
<S> HTC!
(Now, can I make a Linux AH port? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
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2nd Lt. Hogni "Darling" Gylfason
332nd FG "Flying Mongrels"
143rd Pursuit Wing
(http://peterson.gm.is/img/darling_143.jpg)
[This message has been edited by darling (edited 05-22-2001).]
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I see the '25' in the top left circle and that's all (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
'RearGunner' that's a good question and the short answer is NO. The reason, as close as I can tell, is the lenses in the lights do something that corrects the whole situation. A Traffic Light is the only time
I confident I'm seeing Red and Green correctly.
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CO - 111th Fighter Group
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Thats awesome Pyro, thx alot!! The text colors are a little wonky for me. The mysterious "blue official" mode for you HTC people always appears white to me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). I adjusted the RBG values on my monitor and I can KIND of make out a sky blueish color for the official text.
Gee, if THIS worked that fast... hmmm, I think color blind people have trouble with Me262s.. Maybe you could let the handicapped fly them instead?! Hehehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Pyro: OK, thank the programmers then. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
RearGunner: Yes it does cause a problem with traffic lights for me. I can tell the green light from the red light, but the green light looks almost white to me. So sometimes I have trouble spotting them, especially if there are low-pressure sodium streetlights which look almost the same color to me.
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Thanks HTC, I really appreciate that. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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56th FG 63rd FS (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
Lake City
-lakc-
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"Hot damn!
Check the dates gents.
Thrawn's first post is 05-18-2001 08:19pm.
Pyro's "You will be able to select RGB color" post is 05-19-2001 11:47am!"
Heh.... Them boys is fast!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Thanks HTC. Real glad to see this one.