Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on October 16, 2003, 11:02:32 AM
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Wetback.
I'd particularly like to hear from our Spanish or Mexican American community. We have a quite a few here.
Personally, I think it is an ethnic slur, and offensive.
And, I believe anyone that uses that term is racist..but thats just me....
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I wouldnt say it to a Mexican.
Guess that means its offensive, right?
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I do call wetbacks, wetbacks in front of and to other Hispanics, and I haven't had a fight over it yet. And I deal with hispanics all day long, socially and on the job.
What you do not realize, Ripper, is that in this area, at least, the Hispanics, the American Hispanics, do not appreciate the wetbacks anymore than Easymo or I do.
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Originally posted by Gadfly
I do call wetbacks, wetbacks in front of and to other Hispanics, and I haven't had a fight over it yet. And I deal with hispanics all day long, socially and on the job.
What you do not realize, Ripper, is that in this area, at least, the Hispanics, the American Hispanics, do not appreciate the wetbacks anymore than Easymo or I do.
or me....
A hispanic will get mad, but only because they don't want to be associated with an illegal alien....
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Another thing you may not be aware of, is that while most wetbacks ARE Mexican nationals, are good percentage of them are not. There are a lot of Salvadoarans and Guatemlaens who cross illegally, and, as a rule, they are not hispanic. They are indian(as are about half of the Mexican nationals). So you can call it racist all you want, but it a derogatory term for an illegal alien, not a Mexican. Hell, illegal is just as un-PC as wetback.
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Speaking of Mexican, sure wish Gadfly would give me that green chilies recipe he was talkin' about the other night.
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While it's not derogatory here (many people know the term only because of a good song by a mexican group -can't remember the name-), it's regarded as an insult for american hispanics.
Daniel
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WhhoooDoggie! That was Ranzors recipe, and it is some kind of good. I put it over chicken breasts, pork chops and ate it straight as a dip.
I don't think he will mind, so here is Ranzors Famous Green Chilie sauce:
1 chop up two large sweet onions and sauté them in butter until they are caramelized (this is subjective according to how you like them)
2 add chopped roasted green chile (you should be able to find them frozen at the store, BUENO is a popular brand) anyway add the same amount of chile in proportion to the caramelized onions in the pan along with a clove or two of chopped garlic. Saute this mixture until most of the liquid is gone (should just be a big sticky mess in the pan) pick out any chile skins you see while you are cooking (they are like plastic and no fun to eat).
3 Put the chile and onion mixture in a blender and slowly add heavy whipping cream while you blend it until it reaches a consistency you are happy with (I usually make it like thick gravy) at this point pour it back into the pan with the heat on low, so it will loosen any of the nice sweet brown onion bits left in the pan. Add salt and cracked black pepper to your liking.
This is a great sauce for almost anything. It is good on lemon grilled chicken breast over pasta with a few avocado slices, fajitas, on a nice T-bone, or just smeared on a big piece of garlic toast.
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It sure is Cyrano, a major insult if you call an American a wetback.
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Thanks LK!
You and Ranzor had my mouth waterin' the other night! I can't get enough of food like this. Love the heck out of it.
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Originally posted by Gadfly
WhhoooDoggie! That was Ranzors recipe, and it is some kind of good. I put it over chicken breasts, pork chops and ate it straight as a dip.
I don't think he will mind, so here is Ranzors Famous Green Chilie sauce:
1 chop up two large sweet onions and sauté them in butter until they are caramelized (this is subjective according to how you like them)
2 add chopped roasted green chile (you should be able to find them frozen at the store, BUENO is a popular brand) anyway add the same amount of chile in proportion to the caramelized onions in the pan along with a clove or two of chopped garlic. Saute this mixture until most of the liquid is gone (should just be a big sticky mess in the pan) pick out any chile skins you see while you are cooking (they are like plastic and no fun to eat).
3 Put the chile and onion mixture in a blender and slowly add heavy whipping cream while you blend it until it reaches a consistency you are happy with (I usually make it like thick gravy) at this point pour it back into the pan with the heat on low, so it will loosen any of the nice sweet brown onion bits left in the pan. Add salt and cracked black pepper to your liking.
This is a great sauce for almost anything. It is good on lemon grilled chicken breast over pasta with a few avocado slices, fajitas, on a nice T-bone, or just smeared on a big piece of garlic toast.
In my best J. Lo accent..."White people's food!"
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heck rip you get upset when somebody calls you a Yank :)
my dad told us of the fights he got into when he was a kid and called a whop. Somebody called me a whop, think I'd fall over laughing - the days of some of these "racial slurs" are way past due .....
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Note that by Gadfly's definition I don't really know what Hispanic really means for him.
There isn't in fact a Hispanic race, different from, say, Italians, Greeks or French.
So in my understanding Vicente Fox from Mexico is white, and Chavez from Venezuela is a native American...
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Hispanics or Latinos are those people who classified themselves in one of the specific Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino categories listed on the Census 2000 questionnaire -"Mexican, Mexican Am., Chicano," "Puerto Rican", or "Cuban" -as well as those who indicate that they are "other Spanish/Hispanic/Latino." Persons who indicated that they are "other Spanish/Hispanic/Latino" include those whose origins are from Spain, the Spanish-speaking countries of Central or South America, the Dominican Republic or people identifying themselves generally as Spanish, Spanish-American, Hispanic, Hispano, Latino, and so on.
Origin can be viewed as the heritage, nationality group, lineage, or country of birth of the person or the person's parents or ancestors before their arrival in the United States.
People who identify their origin as Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino may be of any race. Thus, the percent Hispanic should not be added to percentages for racial categories. Tallies that show race categories for Hispanics and nonHispanics separately are available.
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Oh please... you can parse the origins of the word all you want. It is obviously a racial slur aimed at people from south of the border. Awfully disingenuous to even consider claiming otherwise.
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Well, if you call someone who is in the US legally a wetback, it is a racial slur. If you call someone who is here illegaly a wetback, it is just a derogatory term.
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Yes it is a racial slur.
It's sad that the question even has to be asked.
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There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts "native" before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance. But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.
The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.
For an American citizen to vote as a German-American, an Irish-American, or an English-American, is to be a traitor to American institutions; and those hyphenated Americans who terrorize American politicians by threats of the foreign vote are engaged in treason to the American Republic.
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I think that it is said in a distastfull manner.
So therefore it is very rude to call someone a wetback.
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Kinda OFF TOPIC but a mexican american is not geographically a hispanic. A peurto rican i work with corrected me on this common misconception. If you ARE hispanic it means you or your ancesters stem from hispanola. Hispanola is the Island in wich the dominican republic sits on. A mexican or somone other than that are "LATINO" (a whole nother whopper in itself) are NOT hispanics.
Wetback is a term that offends most mexicans and americans of mexican dessent......."most"
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Why? Someone called you a wetback at the factory today Ripsnort?
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Originally posted by Regular
Why? Someone called you a wetback at the factory today Ripsnort?
No, what happened was Easymo refered to illegal immigrants as "wetbacks" on another board and Rip called it racist. I see that when the Dogs of AGW nip at Rip's heals he comes scurrying back to Aces High's BBS to get his wounds licked.
:rolleyes:
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From what I have experienced, "beaner" is more derogatory than "wetback" is.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
From what I have experienced, "beaner" is more derogatory than "wetback" is.
Exactly. .
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In my wide and close personal experience with both the term and the target, as well as my long friendship with hispanics, the only ones who feel it is a racial term are limo libs. They also consider "illegal alien" to be a racial term, so that should let you know where they are coming from. Even the wetbacks that I know, and have known for most of my life, realize that it refers to the method by which they enter the US, not the race of the one refered to.
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WOP = "WithOut Papers", somehow got applied to italians in general.
"Wetback" is a dysphemism, even if used to refer to illegal aliens who got into the country by swimming the Rio Grande.
So yeah, it is an insult to call someone a Wetback.
Now if you use it in reference to people of a certain ethnicity, it's particularly insulting; this is even more so if you're in a part of the United States where the dominant non-native population used to be hispanic.
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Yeah, Ripper, and you got your ticket punched by getting some brown sugar when you were a kid. The only thing worse than an overt bigot is one who is so certain of the bigotry in his heart that he over-compensates in public. And MY garage is tiled.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
LOL! Oh PUL_LEASE!
I know of several Mexican Americans that play AH. I wanted THEIR feedback. But in typcial California Cracker defense you're here defending someone who hates Bush along with you and that is why you're here, racial slurs and all.
As mentioned in a previous post up above, if you can't see its a racial slur, then I feel sorry for ya, Archie Bunker.
I hope you're attending the con, and I pray a Mexican American comes up to ya and pops you back to reality. :)
A Mexican-American wouldn't be a wetback.
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Calling someone a wetback is derogatory at best. It is an ethnic slur and very racist.
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It is easy to say that, Nuke, but explain why that is so, in your opinion.
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Originally posted by Gadfly
I do call wetbacks, wetbacks in front of and to other Hispanics, and I haven't had a fight over it yet. And I deal with hispanics all day long, socially and on the job.
What you do not realize, Ripper, is that in this area, at least, the Hispanics, the American Hispanics, do not appreciate the wetbacks anymore than Easymo or I do.
Hey Gadfly, can you define "wetback" ( or what your definition is) for me so I can know what you are refering to? Then after you define it, I'm pretty sure I will be able to verbally rip your argument to shreds.
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Sure: Wetback is someone who crosses the southern border illegally.
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Why is an someone who crosses only the southern border illegally called a wetback? How do you identify them? do you perform background checks? Do these people have any physical traits that help you identify them?
What do you call people that enter the US illegally from the East or North or West?
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Hey Nuke, save your energy for my FW-190! ;)
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lol , your FW is gonna be awesome!
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ORIGIN
Refers to the practice of wading or swimming the Rio Grande, which forms the border between Texas and Mexico. This term, which dates from c. 1929, originally referred to illegal immigrants but has often been used in reference to legal immigrants or citizens of Latino origin.
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Gadfly did you go to bed?
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Originally posted by Dune
ORIGIN
Refers to the practice of wading or swimming the Rio Grande, which forms the border between Texas and Mexico. This term, which dates from c. 1929, originally referred to illegal immigrants but has often been used in reference to legal immigrants or citizens of Latino origin.
So in other words, unless you researched where an illegal crossed the border, and by what means, you would never be able to identify a "wetback"
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Originally posted by NUKE
So in other words, unless you researched where an illegal crossed the border, and by what means, you would never be able to identify a "wetback"
That is where it "originated". I'm pretty sure you can define "originated" on your own.
The word is now used as a synonym for illegal alien, generally from Mexico.
If you want to use it as an insult, then call any Mexican a wetback. It's liable to get you punched in the face, though.
Even used properly, the term wetback is derogatory. Not many people complain about an insulted illegal alien, though.
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Originally posted by Martlet
That is where it "originated". I'm pretty sure you can define "originated" on your own.
The word is now used as a synonym for illegal alien, generally from Mexico.
If you want to use it as an insult, then call any Mexican a wetback. It's liable to get you punched in the face, though.
Even used properly, the term wetback is derogatory. Not many people complain about an insulted illegal alien, though.
I can define "originated" but can you define or identify a "wetback" ?? The question isn't the origin of the term, it is the question of it being racist. I can tell you where the Nazis origins are. They had "terms" for people too, but that doesnt make it okay
Im from Arizona ( Born in Long Beach CA) and I'm a white guy....I know how the term is used and I see it used as a racial slur and it's only directed at Hispanics.....and in broad terms.
I'm going to bed. My IQ doesn't mix well with the lower IQ's at this hour.
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Is a Canadian who swims the St. Lawrence a wetback? If so, it is not a racial slur.
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Calling a Latino a Wetback is no more offensive a term than calling an African-American a N*****. To test this theory we use the "Die Hard 3" protocol. We put Rip in a sandwich sign that says "I hate Wetbacks" and drop him off on the corner of the busiest Latino area in town and drop back a respectable 10 blocks to monitor the response. It usually take less than 15 minutes to get accurate results.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'd particularly like to hear from our Spanish or Mexican American community. We have a quite a few here.
Not me. My handle is the un-PC San Diego State mascot.
Personally, I think it is an ethnic slur, and offensive.And, I believe anyone that uses that term is racist..but thats just me....
Wow, tough call you made there.
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Originally posted by Dune
Dune
Did teddy give this love speach right after he praised the latest slaughter of those redskin savages out west or before?
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rip... I could say it to most mexicans... You saying it from the seat of your bmw through the rolled down window probly wouldn't go over too well.
sortal like a lot of bald people don't like to hear... "hey Q ball"
lazs
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Originally posted by Martlet
It isn't the word or a definition that makes it insulting, it's usage.
If you call a Mexican-American a wetback, that is a racial slur.
If you call a Mexican in the US illegally a wetback, that is an accurate description.
How would it be an accurate description based on your definition of the term? Would'nt that person have had to cross the Rio Grande into Texas to be accuratley be called a wetback?
So if you have a roomfull of illegals from Mexico that crossed the desert into Arizona, what would they be called?
Martlet, the point you don't understand is that people use the term wetback VERY generally to apply to Mexicans regardless of weather or not they even have the slightest idea if they are here legally or not. It is a slur based on race.
I never have seen a person use that term to describe an Hispanic only after researching and confirming that the person is here illegally and swam across a river to get here.
Lets think of some names to call every "type" of Illegal sneaking into the US..... oh wait, we do have a term...... it's called "illegal alien"
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
LOL! Oh PUL_LEASE!
I know of several Mexican Americans that play AH. I wanted THEIR feedback. But in typcial California Cracker defense you're here defending someone who hates Bush along with you and that is why you're here, racial slurs and all.
As mentioned in a previous post up above, if you can't see its a racial slur, then I feel sorry for ya, Archie Bunker.
I hope you're attending the con, and I pray a Mexican American comes up to ya and pops you back to reality. :)
Rip, I never said it wasn't insulting to call someone a "wetback." What I said was in response to you comparing the term "wetback" to "Jap." You stated you saw no difference, I pointed out that "Jap" or the "N" word is a derogatory reference to ones' race, whereas "wetback" is a reference to ones' immigration status, which can, and often does, change. An Asian American will alwys be an Asian American. See the difference?
Easymo's usage of the term, in the context it was presented in that thread, was not racist- admittedly, it was disparging, and is a term I wouldn't feel comfortable using, but reading that Thread I didn't see racism at all and I'm surprised you did.
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Originally posted by NUKE
How would it be an accurate description based on your definition of the term? Would'nt that person have had to cross the Rio Grande into Texas to be accuratley be called a wetback?
So if you have a roomfull of illegals from Mexico that crossed the desert into Arizona, what would they be called?
Martlet, the point you don't understand is that people use the term wetback VERY generally to apply to Mexicans regardless of weather or not they even have the slightest idea if they are here legally or not. It is a slur based on race.
I never have seen a person use that term to describe an Hispanic only after researching and confirming that the person is here illegally and swam across a river to get here.
Lets think of some names to call every "type" of Illegal sneaking into the US..... oh wait, we do have a term...... it's called "illegal alien"
No, you wouldn't have to see how they crossed. The term is now accepted as applicable to all Mexican illegal aliens. Who cares if it's a slur based on their race. They are here illegally. If they don't like it, they can go home.
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Ok... I asked my girlfriend... she said that when she sees rip she is gonna beat the crap outta him.
Guess I better get a chink girlfriend for places I might run into rip.
lazs
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"I hope you're attending the con, and I pray a Mexican American comes up to ya and pops you back to reality."
Never mind, responding to threats is just as lame as making threats.
Sorry I dropped in, it's back to AGW for me. Have fun, children.
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anybody who thinks wetback is a racist term needs to live in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona or California for a few years. It CAN be used as a racist term, but that was more before the invasion began in ernest.
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Originally posted by Eagler
Dune
Did teddy give this love speach right after he praised the latest slaughter of those redskin savages out west or before?
And which slaughter would that be?
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Originally posted by Dune
And which slaughter would that be?
Sand Creek Massacre
read about his views in Flyboys (page 10)
you can read it yourself HERE (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316105848/ref=lib_dp_TT01/102-5392163-2968924?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader&img=13#reader-link)
scroll to pages 10 and 11
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Hey Rip, I just posed your question to my brother in law who happens to have the last name of 'Rodriguez'. His answer was simple, if you call someone a wetback and he kicks your *** it was a slur, if he does not or shoots you the bird, then he must be a very good friend.
I hope this helps.
:D
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Rip, funny you should ask. I posed this same question to my wife several months back. My wife is mexican-american. As you know we are both attorneys. She grew up in south Texas, along the border. Her brother in law works for the Border Patrol in Laredo.
My wife insists that the term is a racial slur and derrogatory, regardless of how it is used. Perhaps it is because she is a professional. I can tell you that I've heard her (a mexican citizen) use the term before, but then again he also uses the ni**er word too.
Nim
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The term was used by the US Government to name a report being made by INS about illegal alien borders crossings from mexico---the name of the report was "Operation wetback". It defined the estimated amounts of illegals entering the country at the time and outlined a plan to "Combat" the problem. The report was written in the early 80's. After it was pointed out to the reports writers(several years later) that the term "wetback" was considered "rascist" and demeaning the writers issued an apology.
You know what? Its like all the other terms for putting down someone for their ethnic backgrounds. The term redneck, whitebread, whitey, gringo and several others are the same as ******, spic, wop, kike and so on, but you dont hear screaming about a caucasion being called a redneck.........
If You cant guess the word that was stared out above it was the N-word and points out that some slurs are more equal than others....So get a grip people, or star out the word redneck and wetback because it is as much a slur as the N-word
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the redneck usually thinks it's a compliment :)
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lol some do -----and then when I hear a black call another black a N***** they take as one also --more so among the rap/hip-hop group