Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SavedSaint on October 17, 2003, 06:00:46 PM
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This game, as well as other flight sims have been around for sometimes.
I seem to be getting an broader idea on what i should do in a plane.
Im learning to manuver and counter manuver.
Okay so here is where im having troubles.
A plane has about 1k more Alt giving him a slight edge on E..
We come in at first pass at a head on..
Now my strat is to fire a few shots up to him "hope i get lucky" and then pull down to avoid his.
Next i pull my nose up as far as i can right in front of him. Do a loop and dive back down hoeping to get on his six and panic him.
That my 2 manuver.
What should i do next.
Most of the guys do not try to fligh and extend, instead the pull up as im flying down.. Both passes at a miss.
I normaly am in a Hurricane IIC
Or a good turner in this situation.. What should i do to get on someones six after this
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might wana move this to help and training thread:aok
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chk out combathangar for some ACM websites.
also look for posts in the "help and training" forum.
also check out ummm watermelon im drawing a blank... the website with stuff about AH and other flight sims....... furball central is it????
somone else will point the way.
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Don't do the HO, go into a slight dive, bring up your speed. Hopefully the guy will turn on you and with your added speed you should be able to come around quickly on him, or dive away. This all depend on what you and the other guy is flying however. Know your plane, know his plane.
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Anyone else stare at JB73's avitar and forget what the hell they were doing for 10 minutes?
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Originally posted by Slash27
Anyone else stare at JB73's avitar and forget what the hell they were doing for 10 minutes?
Not untill you mentioned it :D
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http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95327
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i would help you, but you are a rook
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Slow down to about 200, fly straight and level. It should throw them off. ;)
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Just keep those 4x20mm pointed at him, you'll do fine. :)
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Originally posted by Furball
i would help you, but you are a rook
Your nick says you are, at heart, too :D
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Originally posted by SavedSaint
This game, as well as other flight sims have been around for sometimes.
I seem to be getting an broader idea on what i should do in a plane.
Im learning to manuver and counter manuver.
Okay so here is where im having troubles.
A plane has about 1k more Alt giving him a slight edge on E..
We come in at first pass at a head on..
Now my strat is to fire a few shots up to him "hope i get lucky" and then pull down to avoid his.
Next i pull my nose up as far as i can right in front of him. Do a loop and dive back down hoeping to get on his six and panic him.
That my 2 manuver.
What should i do next.
Most of the guys do not try to fligh and extend, instead the pull up as im flying down.. Both passes at a miss.
I normaly am in a Hurricane IIC
Or a good turner in this situation.. What should i do to get on someones six after this
One thing I've found that works quite well is this:
Ok, he's higher than you and coming down to do an HO. My preferred counter to this is to point my nose down into a shallow dive to force him to push his nose down even further. I gradually increase my dive angle to gain some maneuvering speed. As we merge, I'm usually at around a 45-degree dive angle while he's pushing his angle even steeper and bring even more speed to the fight. He'll open up his guns at around d500 or more, at which point I push down even more to avoid his bullet stream.
As we pass, I'll pull up and look back to see what he's doing. Usually he's packing so much speed that he's either fighting compression or a blackout or is extending away. In any case, he's packing too much speed to do much dogfighting, whereas you're well within your flight envelope and are trading your speed for altitude and gaining an angle on him.
If he pulls up, you'll be inside his turn. If he extends out, you'll be above him storing your potential energy for his next run at you.
If he pulls up, simply go wings level and fly a button hook around him as he comes up. You'll end up behind him. He'll probably be heading away at a pretty good clip, so don't waste your ammo if he's out of range; maybe d600 or so is as far away as I'll take a shot, maybe further if I'm using .50 cal guns with plenty of ammo to waste. In a Hurri 2C, just give a quick burst with 2 guns and see if you land any hits. Its a long shot but you may get lucky.
Typically, once a plane pulls up, he won't have enough energy to try and pull up again, so expect him to go into a dive to get away. If you think you can catch him (such as if he's in a Spit V or such) follow him down and you may get lucky and get close enough to land a shot. Otherwise, just keep your altitude and wait for him to come around again, but this time you'll probably be higher than him and he'll have less relative differential speed to get away.
Eventually your fight will end up low enough that he'll either have to run away for good or get lured into a turnfight. Just make sure you have enough patience to wait him out. He'll tire out and then you can get him aboard the boat. ;)
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blablabla....
nevermind the fancy dancy maneuvers.....
your in a hurri2c......make em overshoot and blast his prettythang
I do it all the time :aok
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whereas you're well within your flight envelope and are trading your speed for altitude and gaining an angle on him
So after you make the pass you start pulling up to transfer speed into alt.. But don't pull up so far as to engine stall.. Instead keep your speed at a rate in which you can turn back on him..????
If he pulls up, simply go wings level and fly a button hook around him as he comes up.
By "button hook" you mean do a 180 degree turn.. ?
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Well, here are some classic mistakes often perpetrated by new folks, and perfectly displayed. A 1k alt advantage doesn't gaurantee an E advantage. If your opponent has been grabbing to get 1k over you and is flying at 130 knots, while you are cruising in your Hurri at over 250, I'd say he doesn't have an E advantage at all. E is not only about alt, speed is important as well.
If you want to exchange a distant HO, so be it. You're in a plane w/ hispanos... duck under like you said.... that's smart.
After that I think you go astray.
Why pull up right in front of him? Yo'll give a quick minded pilot a snap shot and if he truly has an E advantage, and in your Hurri, by the time you get your nose around, you'll be looking at the tail of a plane that is too far away to get a good shot at. Additionally, if you do this to a pony, G10 or other speed plane, you'll find yourself roped and slow to boot...utterly defensive.
After the merge, why not get your nose down just enough to get to good maneuvering speed and force your opponent to reverse and go after you? Especially if he's in a speed plane, like Slo said: once he's on your 6, you've got him right where you want him. Perform a displacement maneuver of your choice, make him overshoot, then blast his tail off. Gofaster's move is a sucker move, he is surrendering alt in an effort to force his opponent out of his manuevering envelope. Against a smart pilot, Gofaster will find himself lower than his opponent and defensive.... BnZ'd to death.
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Originally posted by Pepe
Your nick says you are, at heart, too :D
sorry, you must have misread my name, its Furball, not
"stinkingaltmonkeyrunningifany thinggetswithin5kofmeluftween ie" :D
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Originally posted by Steve
Gofaster's move is a sucker move, he is surrendering alt in an effort to force his opponent out of his manuevering envelope. Against a smart pilot, Gofaster will find himself lower than his opponent and defensive.... BnZ'd to death.
Yeah, it has its drawbacks against guys that fly the P-51, 190, and P38 as BnZ planes, but then again, so few do. Remember, the idea is that the other guy is pointing his nose down at the merge farther than you are, so he'll keep going down after the merge after you've started your climb.
The Hurri 2C is no speed demon. If the other plane is a speed merchant, you can expect him to keep doing the same attack each time, in which case you keep doing the same defensive move of going nose-down. Each time, he'll be diving deeper than you are, so as the fight gets lower, he'll have to eventually come up with a new attack maneuver or end up in a faceplant. Most likely, you'll end up co-alt where you can use the turn to your advantage. and get inside of him, or use the quad hispanos to your advantage and HO him.
If you do get a guy that's going to dive-n-climb away, just keep foiling his attacks by not giving him the easy tail shot. Remember, you'll see him coming and can turn into his face every time. Sometimes its good to embrace the dark side of the HO. ;)
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Originally posted by SavedSaint
So after you make the pass you start pulling up to transfer speed into alt.. But don't pull up so far as to engine stall.. Instead keep your speed at a rate in which you can turn back on him..????
By "button hook" you mean do a 180 degree turn.. ?
Ok, you're in a Hurri2C going up against a Spit IX (the most common fighter plane in the MA). He's coming in above you, and has been above you since you spotted his dot beyond d6.0. Chances are, he'll be faster than you.
Go nose down, he'll go nose down. You push down further, he'll push down further. Now he's d1.0 and the tracers are coming down, you push nose down some more. He's target-locked and trying to walk his tracers into you so he'll push his nose over even more.
Now he's on you and you pull up as he goes past. Remember, he's faster than you so pull up and loop around. As you reach the top of your loop, if he's pulled up too then you should be inside his turn. Use your quad hispanos to get the snapshot. If you're out of his turning path and can't get a shot, roll your wings and make a turn similar to a question mark - a ? You'll be slow but hey, you're in a Hurricane so you're usually slow anyway. If he tries to turn with you, you'll have him since you'll be slower and able to make a smaller turn cirlce, so get inside his turn radius and wait for him to run out of speed as he yanks his joystick back into his gut.
If he keeps going and extends away, level out and wait for him to come around again. Chances are you'll be closer to altitude and speed at the next merge.
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Well, I was speaking from my perspective, and that is mostly from the cockpit of a 51.
If the other plane is a speed merchant, you can expect him to keep doing the same attack each time,
Really? It seems to me that you are offering me a deflection canopy shot... I think I'd take that, with my .50's
If there was anything left of you, I'd go up and on top, force the fight into the vertical againt a hurri. What pilot is "going to do the same attack each time" that results in a HO with 4 hispanos?
Now, if the other plane was a turnfighter, you're really just describing the classic merge where you get your nose up at merge so you can loop over faster than the bad guy. I can see in a 1v1 how this move might be effective; does it really bring you regular success in the MA?
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Originally posted by Steve
Gofaster's move is a sucker move
Just about every manner of killing in Aces High involves sucker moves to one extent or another. That's what I love about the game. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Furball
sorry, you must have misread my name, its Furball, not
"stinkingaltmonkeyrunningifany thinggetswithin5kofmeluftween ie" :D
HEY! I said Rook, not Knight! :D
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Originally posted by Steve
Well, I was speaking from my perspective, and that is mostly from the cockpit of a 51.
Really? It seems to me that you are offering me a deflection canopy shot... I think I'd take that, with my .50's
If there was anything left of you, I'd go up and on top, force the fight into the vertical againt a hurri. What pilot is "going to do the same attack each time" that results in a HO with 4 hispanos?
Now, if the other plane was a turnfighter, you're really just describing the classic merge where you get your nose up at merge so you can loop over faster than the bad guy. I can see in a 1v1 how this move might be effective; does it really bring you regular success in the MA?
Steve, when was the last time you flew a Hurri? I took one up last night for kicks, bagged 11 kills, 5 deaths (3 deaths because I was caught low in a valley after bagging a kill each time, 2 from upping from a hangar at A5 when it was capped by Knights).
What I'm betting is that the higher bandit will accellerate faster nose-down than the Hurricane will. The idea is to play off the speed differential - use the enemy's strengths against him - a judo philosophy if you will.
A Mustang will accellerate downhill quite well, and a lot of pilots will be pinging out at 350 ias before they know it, while the Hurri will be chugging along at a 45 degree down angle at around 275. The rate of closure only allows a 1-second burst and since the angle is constantly changing, the higher bandit will be continually pushing increasingly negative Gs as he pushes his nose down. His bullet stream would actually be above his head (and behind the Hurricane) which is an angle most pilots aren't used to having. That'd be a heckuva deflection shot. A guy like you could probably take it since you've got a lot of Stang time with .50s, but there aren't many that can. Even if you scored a hit, it wouldn't be enough to do any damage to a Hurricane.
By going nose-down, I'm betting the higher bandit will overshoot in the vertical. Now, a guy like you probably wouldn't fall for that and would pull out at around d300 before the altitudes equalized, in which case you'd probably try to keep dancing on the Hurricane's head and forcing the Hurri to stay nose-up in order to take a shot. Nothing new there. Its simply a case of the higher bandit maintaining his altitude advantage.
But if the higher plane takes the bait ("Here, have my canopy") and overshoots, the Hurricane will have him at the next merge.
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ya but like he said..
why keep doing a HO..
I would not expect another HO after the first.
My idea was to turn loop in front of him so i can be right on his tail at 1k..
And if hes in a turner i can try to stay on his tail.. If not i can climb or extend and do something else.
But last night i encounterd a very nice move by Raptor.
I was in spit V.
he was in 205.
He had a good speed rating..
He came down about 1-2k diving.. But instead of HO-ing.. he went right over me...
at this point i thought they guy was going to exteand and zoom.. But i definately was surprised by what he did.
I look back to check my 6 (2 secs later after the pass) and hes 500 away on my tail.. though i was a little above him he had speed to climb right up to me.. I turned but could not get out of it.. i was totaly caught off guard..
How did he do that in a 205.. i heard 205 are good spit killers..
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He probably chopped throttle, popped flaps, and turned in your blind spot, then went full throttle, raised flaps, and hit WEP to catch you.
The 205 can handle quite well, but its guns are terrible. I've never had much luck with them.
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Anyone else stare at JB73's avitar and forget what the hell they were doing for 10 minutes?
No, because I know that's Shane in drag.
:rolleyes:
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Man, Shane is a hotty.
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Actually, I think its some French pop artist. Can't recall her name. I haven't heard any of her stuff, either, but I'm guessing she's one of those that relies on her sex appeal to sell records rather than her vocal talent.