Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: rabbidrabbit on October 19, 2003, 12:00:22 PM
-
I just lost another 262. And not to any other reason than a quick network burp. So far I have lost well upwards of 2000 perk points because of these things that are not my fault and well beyond my control. What I'm asking is for there to be some presumptive mechanism in the game that assumes continuity with a disco for say up to 4 mins. If the client loses the server then the plane/vehicle continues on at auto lvl for 4 mins or so at current throttle setting and only discoes if connection is not reestablished. This is a pretty common feature in other games I have played and is a gesture of good faith for all.
thoughts?
-
Network "burp" = random mechanical failure = REALISM! :D
-
Are you on AOL?
-
I've never been disconnected, I use cable/Road Runner
-
Network connectivity is a function of all the devices involved from the end users' machine to the server. There are dozens of points of failure non of which are anyones fault per se. My ISP had "issues" with a router for months causing all sorts of problems not to mention if you ALT-TAB out to check email or do some work while on climb out you seem to run the risk of disco'ing. To say well... I have not had that problem so screw you is missing the point entirely. The fact is it happens and to many people per night for many different reasons. What I'm asking is that there be some relatively simple code be added that assumes good faith and leaves a bookmark in these certain conditions. From the dozens of complaints I have heard this would be a great feature for HT to add since there are no downsides and potential for much higher customer satisfaction. People get unhappy when they lose things through reasons beyond their control and it's mostly preventable. This is why other companies do it.
-
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
What I'm asking is that there be some relatively simple code be added .... since there are no downsides ....
I'm sorry, are you a programmer for HTC? Or a programmer at all? Do you have any idea whether or not that's "relatively simple code?"
-
Originally posted by mos
I'm sorry, are you a programmer for HTC? Or a programmer at all? Do you have any idea whether or not that's "relatively simple code?"
You don't have to be an ***..
Think about what I said before acting that way. And no, It should not be overly complicated.
-
If you can't afford to lose it don't fly it:aok
-
Originally posted by mrblack
If you can't afford to lose it don't fly it:aok
Please refer to above about missing the point.. still have more than 2k fighter perks left. Thats not the point. Less highjacking more thinking pls..>
Folks should not be penalized for issues beyond their control. Fixing something that does this is great customer relations.
-
HTC can't control the internet!
All they can control is there server witch they do very well.
Hey I get booted sometimes to and I have lost perks as well because of it.
but thats the breaks It aint HTCs fault.
It has nothing to do with the game It Is the internet connection that is to blame trust me.
I have spent alot of time disscusing this with scuzzy and my ISP.
-
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Folks should not be penalized for issues beyond their control. Fixing something that does this is great customer relations.
So when you get a flat on the highway or it rains on the ball game, who do you whine to then? If you use every concievable form of contraception short of abstinence and your woman gets knocked up, Who you gonna scream to for changing the reproductive process? Should the person behind you be penalized? Maybe you for buying poor tires? Maybe you for not finding / paying for a higher quality connection to The Internet?
toejam happens. - buy a tee-shirt, join a support group and deal with it.
-
Geez you 2 are rediculus.. Did you pay any attention to what I said at all? Must you catagorize anything as a whine regardless if it is or not?
Try actually reading through my post. If you lack the attention span I'll try to recap it for you.
1) One can expect network burps and outages to cause warping and disconnects.
2) There is a relatively simple way to correct for folks getting booted from disco's. That is to allow the server to take over flight, like a drone, for a short period of time thereby allowing the person to reconnect and resync up without consequence.
3) I do not suscribe to your arguement that one should not try to fix a problem when it's possible to do so. Would you both say the same thing if you were dicoed every 2 mins? or there was some other issue that made playing the game more difficult. the answer is no. And you know it. Being constructive is a good thing. Being a jerk just because you feel an impulse to post something today is not.
regards
-
How is the server gonna know who and when to give the "drone"
back to?
And do you know the huge load it would place on the server?
Partner I am not calling you a whiner.
But you and you're internet connection have to take some of the responsability for you're "disco's"
Thats all I am saying.
You're sulution i am unaware of any online game with this many
players on at one time that could impliment this kind of thing.
-
It's pretty simple. It knows who you are already by an ID tag, when it loses contact you go straight and level unitl either you come back or it times out and you go boom.
My connection is just fine. It's safe to say it represents an average of most consumer connects. I don't know how many per day are discoed by a short (10-60 sec) lag out but I bet it's in the many dozens. These things are the nature of the Internet and no one can fix them entirely. Every MMorg I have played has had this feature , EQ etc.. I sincerely doubt it would be a substancial or even noticable server load.
-
Either that or somehow you're ID tag sends a message to the server and you're perk points are resent to you if you get discoed.
That way you would not be out you're perkys for something you did not do;)
-
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
You don't have to be an ***..
Think about what I said before acting that way. And no, It should not be overly complicated.
You have NO IDEA how complicated it will be, whether you believe it "should be" or not. When you know one thing about programming, know the intricacies about network programming, and have a look at their code, then you can instruct them on how best to implement your change. Until then, don't tell people more knowledgeable than you how to do their job.
Before you ask, no, I'm not an employee of HTC. I am, however, a games network programmer. I didn't take issue with your suggestion, it's a perfectly reasonable request. I've never lost a 262 from a disco, but I'm sure I'd be pretty unhappy if I did. I do, however, take issue with your making assumptions about the difficulty of the change. You said "since there are no downsides," but you fail to consider the design change to the code architecture, the time it takes to make that design change, the time it takes to code that change, the time it takes to debug it, the possible impact it has on normal network operation, and the time it takes to roll out a new patch. No change, no matter how "simple" is ever "easy."
-
Originally posted by mos
You have NO IDEA how complicated it will be, whether you believe it "should be" or not. When you know one thing about programming, know the intricacies about network programming, and have a look at their code, then you can instruct them on how best to implement your change. Until then, don't tell people more knowledgeable than you how to do their job.
Before you ask, no, I'm not an employee of HTC. I am, however, a games network programmer. I didn't take issue with your suggestion, it's a perfectly reasonable request. I've never lost a 262 from a disco, but I'm sure I'd be pretty unhappy if I did. I do, however, take issue with your making assumptions about the difficulty of the change. You said "since there are no downsides," but you fail to consider the design change to the code architecture, the time it takes to make that design change, the time it takes to code that change, the time it takes to debug it, the possible impact it has on normal network operation, and the time it takes to roll out a new patch. No change, no matter how "simple" is ever "easy."
perhaps, perhaps not. It's safe to say neither of us know for sure for reasons you seem to be aware of. For that reason you might have handled your first post more decently. You just grabbed a rather irrelevant issue and started trashing me. That's what I have issue with.
BTW, it's not about losing perk points per se it's about a decent feature to improve the quality of the experience which leads to retained customers.
It's a pity we have spent so much talking about so little.. What's wrong with peoples attitudes here?
-
The Attitude is Generated by the audacity of a request born of complete (apparent) ignorence.
I am not assosiated with HTC in any way except as a client. I take offense to people of your type that think you can just wave some magick wand and have the code wonderously dance to your perfection. A self mutatiing engine for your special needs. - Will create a plane to fly around in the M.A. for you. I mean hell, think of the kills you could have had in the time that you were gone? It would be a simple request to have the plane fight for you while you were gone, or better yet just GIVE you a few kills for the inconvienance of being disconnected from their server. Perhaps a free trip to the con per 10 Discos? 5 maybe?
I am reminded of the comic strip "Dilbert". Where the pointy haired manager was portrayed as saying: "I was looking at your code and found it to be a jumble of mispelled words... I can do that!".
Mos Summed it up pretty good. -- I tire of this conversation. I have spoken my mind and there is nothing you can say to change it. Good Day.
-
Originally posted by 2Hawks
The Attitude is Generated by the audacity of a request born of complete (apparent) ignorence.
I am not assosiated with HTC in any way except as a client. I take offense to people of your type that think you can just wave some magick wand and have the code wonderously dance to your perfection. A self mutatiing engine for your special needs. - Will create a plane to fly around in the M.A. for you. I mean hell, think of the kills you could have had in the time that you were gone? It would be a simple request to have the plane fight for you while you were gone, or better yet just GIVE you a few kills for the inconvienance of being disconnected from their server. Perhaps a free trip to the con per 10 Discos? 5 maybe?
I am reminded of the comic strip "Dilbert". Where the pointy haired manager was portrayed as saying: "I was looking at your code and found it to be a jumble of mispelled words... I can do that!".
Gee.. I don't know what to say.. apparently.. today.. because you feel like it.. no one can make a feature sugestion for all the non existent reasons you wrote above. A request is just that an idea of how to improve a product in a way that's in everyones best interest. Instead of having anything worthwhile to say you fabricated points and belittled them. These are your points you are denegrating not mine yet you lack the rational capacity and moral decency to take responsibility for yourself. At least be man enough to admit you did not think about or probably even read what I wrote before jumping on the trash talk bandwagon so you could look like mr cool.. in your own mind anyway. I never thought you worked for HTC and it's good that you don't you clearly lack the social and logical capacity to do so. Your right, you have said every thing you could think of, pity you said nothing worth while.
-
-- LOL --
You would have saved yourself the typing and just declared "I know you are but what am I?"
-
Well, to try and get this thread back on target....
One major issue I see with the implementation of your request is the abuse such a system would suffer. Let's look at an example.
JoeDweeb takes up his 262 and tries to fly it like a spit. He gets low and slow (for argument's sake say 5k@250). He looks up and sees a couple fast P51s. Uh-oh, those ponies are going to shoot me down! JoeDweeb does the magic "forced disco". 3 minutes later he comes back in and his precious jet is away from danger.
There are multiple ways to express this type of scenario, however they all have one thing in common: abuse of the system.
-
Jonny,
What I said is when the server sees a disco it just keeps the connect alive for longer than it does now. This by no means makes you invincible since you are a valid target. How can it be an advantage if you have no flight control?... you can get shot down.. fly into something... etc..
2hawks... don't bother. If you want to insult others for things they did not say just start your own thread and make a fool of yourself there.
-
Originally posted by Arlo
Dear Hitech,
Last night I was shot down behind enemy lines and had to ditch in the ocean. I was able to get out ok and inflated my liferaft. I knew that a friendly submarine was patroling roughly 50 miles south of where I went down. After seven and a half hours of paddling I discoed. Would you please reinstate my rank and points? If you put me back in my raft, I'm sure it'll only take another couple of days to get to the sub. Would you please consider coding something into the game that allows players to "freeze" where they are so they can take breaks and eat or use the bathroom instead of paddling ... or maybe an "auto-paddle" function? Better yet ... an "offline paddling" option that continues on even if you disco or log.
Sincerely,
Fillius P. Dinglehopper aka "DethGod667" (666 was taken already)
-
Heh, Rut. I had to doubletake. I coulda sworn I didn't post in this one yet. ;)
-
:D I am still cleaning soda off my monitor LOL.:D
-
I hear you DR :) Lost lot of perk rides this way. I once asked HT online if something gonna be changed about it, he said no.
-
I'm all for it myself DadRabit san. But I have no idea what kind of time it would take to build such a function.
-
I do love statments like this.
"What I'm asking is that there be some relatively simple code be added"
Just to give you a little idea.
1. In lots of cases the sever dosn't know you disco until you time out with no communication.
2. There is no simulation code running on the server.
It would have to be added to keep your plane flying.
3. But wait you could fly into a mountain.
There is no terrain on the host, let alone collision detection. Even worse getting 1 fast enof to be able to collide mutilple people ,And run there sim.
4. What happens when you get shot down. Thats not handled on the server now.
5. But you could fly threw ack. There is no terrain on the server let alone AI for the ack to shoot at you.
Just a few quick thoughts, of that realatively simple code add.
Sorry not going to happen.
HiTech
-
rabbidrabbit puts forward a suggestion for improving AH and gets a whole load of crap back and not as to why the suggestion if adopted would be detrimental to the game but a lot as to why he was a whiner for wanting the benefits it would give.
I guess those that replied that way would ask for a "hard man" option so if implemented they could opt out and take their chances on the odd CTD to lose perk points. Well maybe not!
Let's be constructive and stick to commenting on what impact ideas might have on the game play and attractiveness or otherwise of them to us and for new gamers. Personalising it all gets no one and AH nowhere.
-
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Every MMorg I have played has had this feature , EQ etc.. I sincerely doubt it would be a substancial or even noticable server load.
I hate to tell you this but EQ has no such feature, nor do any of SOE games. If it did, I wouldn't get so many complaints of discos at work.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Fariz
I hear you DR :) Lost lot of perk rides this way. I once asked HT online if something gonna be changed about it, he said no.
Darn. I was hoping this might stand a chance and I don't care one wit about perk points.
btw In a normal program you might handle it with as few as three subroutines but it's much more difficult to hang subroutines off a third party data base application.
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I hate to tell you this but EQ has no such feature, nor do any of SOE games. If it did, I wouldn't get so many complaints of discos at work.
ack-ack
I used to play EQ off and on for a couple years. What it would do was remember your place in a group and if you came back within about 6 mins you would keep your place in the group as if nothing happened. It would not move you around but it didn't totaly leave you in the lurch.
-
Originally posted by hitech
I do love statments like this.
"What I'm asking is that there be some relatively simple code be added"
Just to give you a little idea.
1. In lots of cases the sever dosn't know you disco until you time out with no communication.
2. There is no simulation code running on the server.
It would have to be added to keep your plane flying.
3. But wait you could fly into a mountain.
There is no terrain on the host, let alone collision detection. Even worse getting 1 fast enof to be able to collide mutilple people ,And run there sim.
4. What happens when you get shot down. Thats not handled on the server now.
5. But you could fly threw ack. There is no terrain on the server let alone AI for the ack to shoot at you.
Just a few quick thoughts, of that realatively simple code add.
Sorry not going to happen.
HiTech
Thanks for the constructive reply HiTech. I said relatively simple and relatively is a rather open position since it's relative to other things such as designing a new flight model or TOD. I did not mean to say it was trivial in nature since I didn't write the code.
Would you mind commenting about the following?
1. In lots of cases the sever dosn't know you disco until you time out with no communication.
What if you extend the timeout period up to about 1 min? Folks CTD when they ALT-TAB back and forth once in a while as well as for other reasons. This should fix those problems with no other work.
2. There is no simulation code running on the server.
It would have to be added to keep your plane flying.
May or may not be feasible, simply knowing alt, speed and direction would carry you without the burden of flight code.
3. But wait you could fly into a mountain.
There is no terrain on the host, let alone collision detection. Even worse getting 1 fast enof to be able to collide mutilple people ,And run there sim.
Clearly a problem, I assume AH2 does not have this functionality too so it would be painful
4. What happens when you get shot down. Thats not handled on the server now.
Same as 3, easy way out if you get pinged you go kerplooey.
5. But you could fly threw ack. There is no terrain on the server let alone AI for the ack to shoot at you.
Same as 3, these would be significant issues. Not sure how to solve it beyond my first suggestion of extending the timeout. I agree with what you said about the complications with implementing this. The only counter arguement I can make for it is based on all the times I have heard folks get ripped about discoing which seems to be far from uncommon. There is no way you can control everything but you can build buffers into the system to absorb the inconsistencies that are inherent to the environment. Happy people pay monthly bills , unhappy ones go away whether this one or any issue is worth dealing with is a business decision and you have your plate full there. Thanks again for participating!
-
Originally posted by hitech
I do love statments like this.
"What I'm asking is that there be some relatively simple code be added"
Just to give you a little idea.
1. In lots of cases the sever dosn't know you disco until you time out with no communication.
2. There is no simulation code running on the server.
It would have to be added to keep your plane flying.
3. But wait you could fly into a mountain.
There is no terrain on the host, let alone collision detection. Even worse getting 1 fast enof to be able to collide mutilple people ,And run there sim.
4. What happens when you get shot down. Thats not handled on the server now.
5. But you could fly threw ack. There is no terrain on the server let alone AI for the ack to shoot at you.
Just a few quick thoughts, of that realatively simple code add.
Sorry not going to happen.
HiTech
Looks like the real HiTech is posting again :)
And rabbit, all that = high cost and LAG LAG LAG!! , which in turn = more players *****ing and hitech loosing money.
-
Originally posted by BenDover
Looks like the real HiTech is posting again :)
And rabbit, all that = high cost and LAG LAG LAG!! , which in turn = more players *****ing and hitech loosing money.
A potentially valid point, server CPU/memory load might be prohibitive or not.. Hard to say without testing. If all those things need to be added beyond what was to be added otherwise than it would be a lot of work for some gain. Maybe extending the time out as a grace period to let folks who CTD get back in would fix the problem with no serious pain.
-
rabbidrabbit I started thinking about this again, what about this.
Player A sees player B on his 6. Player A engages auto pilot and Alt+F4s out just before entering the north face of a mountain. Player A comes back 3 minutes later on the south side of the mountain.:rolleyes:
The point is that's what could happen and there’s probably much worse. Anyway, both the server and the players FE would have to be rewritten to stop this sort of thing and you couldn't stop until it was embedded in every part of the game.
-
Dewd shut the hell up already.
Hitech said No.
shut the h--- Damn I already said that. -- Never mind if your like my kidz you won't listen anywayz.
-
lol HiTech posted two minutes before my post got in and I didn't see it in the thread until now. I was wondering where the quotes were coming from.
-
Just to add fuel to this debate... lets say that HiTech added code to resolve this dropped IP problem and perk points.
2 months later...
---
Your flying along in your 262, and a 152 shows up on your six, you unplug your network cable because you don't want to loose your perk points.
---
1 hour later...
152 pilot posts on the General forum that dweebs are discoing on purpose to avoid loosing perks and asked HiTech to do something about it. :rolleyes:
Problem is, there is NO WAY to tell the difference from a manual disco to a true network drop.
Crappy as it is to loose 200+ perks at a drop of a hat, especailly when you can see coming...i.e. UDP not responding, switching to TCP/IP messages, it's the nature of the internet beast.
If you're dropping off on a regular rate, change your ISP. If you're playing and you've got good connection, then it's worth the risk. :)
-
Originally posted by 2Hawks
Dewd shut the hell up already.
Hitech said No.
shut the h--- Damn I already said that. -- Never mind if your like my kidz you won't listen anywayz.
Ever consider there is good reason why even your kids figured out that you are not worth listening to? You have added nothing of value at all to this thread and for that matter to any other I have seen. Go waste everyones time on some other message board if the best you can show for your self as a man is trash talk people and derail threads.
-
Originally posted by Mister Fork
Just to add fuel to this debate... lets say that HiTech added code to resolve this dropped IP problem and perk points.
2 months later...
---
Your flying along in your 262, and a 152 shows up on your six, you unplug your network cable because you don't want to loose your perk points.
---
1 hour later...
152 pilot posts on the General forum that dweebs are discoing on purpose to avoid loosing perks and asked HiTech to do something about it. :rolleyes:
Problem is, there is NO WAY to tell the difference from a manual disco to a true network drop.
Crappy as it is to loose 200+ perks at a drop of a hat, especailly when you can see coming...i.e. UDP not responding, switching to TCP/IP messages, it's the nature of the internet beast.
If you're dropping off on a regular rate, change your ISP. If you're playing and you've got good connection, then it's worth the risk. :)
Ya, you have a good point. Under the current situation thats a problem. What confuses me is if the server is unaware of terrain, flight models etc how is it going to handle the AI aircraft in TOD? Extending the timeout is a imperfect solution to a imperfect situation you will always have imperfection it's a matter of priorities.
-
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Ever consider there is good reason why even your kids figured out that you are not worth listening to? You have added nothing of value at all to this thread and for that matter to any other I have seen. Go waste everyones time on some other message board if the best you can show for your self as a man is trash talk people and derail threads.
Before you make such claims be sure you go through my nearly 200 Posts. You continue to amaze me. -- You have GOT to be a shrink...
-
If he was a shrink, wouldn't he be saying the root of all network problems is your mother?
-
LOl, No that was Frued's Fetish. :)
-
Does anyone else find it ironic that he had an obsessive-compulsive-disorder?
-
Originally posted by BenDover
Does anyone else find it ironic that he had an obsessive-compulsive-disorder?
Nothing obsessive compulsive here just frustrated that he totally missed my point and decided to repeatedly personally attack me on something that had nothing to do with what I was saying.
-
And you missed my point...
-
Originally posted by BenDover
Does anyone else find it ironic that he had an obsessive-compulsive-disorder?
My Last Employer was bona-fide obsessive comulsive -- Never work for one unless you have full Mental Health Insurance.
-
OK, enough of this tard fest. Ben how could I miss what was not there?
2Hawks,
This thread was about how AH2/TOD could handle loss recovery in a more equitable way. Clearly this thread makes that not possible now. The points of observable fact, loss of a plane, lost many planes over the last 18 months and many others having similar experiences which takes away from the experience are not relevant beyond examples. I did not at any time say "waahh give me my perks back!" or " It's all HT's fault, he sucks!" You assumed that was my point and decided to demean me in any way you could conceive regardless of the fact that I did not even hold those positions. I have had enough of this dysfunctional piss fest so you folks can feel free to get your last word in and declare victory where there is none.
-
Obviously you’re a dim-witted arse-hat, otherwise you'd have discovered that I was not in fact talking to you (it may surprise you, but the earth does NOT revolve around you), but was in fact talking to 2hawks.
Not to mention your still trying to get a feature made which you've been told by numerous people, including the big man who wrote the ****ing program that it's nigh on impossible to implement.
-
[size=8]THE SPANISH CIVIL WAR [/size]
-
OK Ben, I'm sorry... I misinterpeted your remarks. My bad.
-
Originally posted by BenDover
Does anyone else find it ironic that he had an obsessive-compulsive-disorder?
Most shrinks have some sort of mental disorder.
ack-ack
-
After all .... 5 minutes of watching "Frasier" can confirm that!
:lol