Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MaddDog on October 19, 2003, 04:07:58 PM
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Now keep in mind i already know there are tons of planes that are needed before these, this isnt a post saying i want them all rightnow blah blah blah, this is just planes id like to see sometime in AH doesnt really matter when.Since night isnt really a factor rightnow in AH i wont include night fighters.
Fighters:
Bf 109E-7(early war plane)
Bf 109T-2(Carrier Version in limited production)
Bf 109F-2(early mid war plane)
Bf 109G-14(mid late war)
Bf 109K-4(later war)
Fw 190A-1(early war)
Fw 190A-2(early war)
Fw 190D-11(late war, good for battle against late war spits)
Me 410 (good for jabo)
Do 335 (limited production/use)
Me 262A-1a/U4(50mm nose mounted cannon :D)
Me 262A-1a/U5(6 nose mounted 30mms)
Me 262A-2a(version capable of carrying rockets/bombs)
He 162(late war limited use, but since in AH all the problems with the original aircraft arent modeled, it should be ok)
Bombers:
Do 17 lots of varients we could use.
Ju 88 lots of varients we could use.
Ju 87 afew varients we could also use.
He 177 LW need a heavy bomber.
Me 210 high speed bomber.
Do 335 version capable of carrying bombs.
Go-229(didnt quite make the war, but the A-1 version was in pretty far development, since i think HT will prob consider planes that just missed the war i just put it here.)
Ar 234B-2 (had 4 engines instead of 2, good high speed bomber with limited use.)
Fw 200 ok long range bomber.
Ju 390(massive bomber with 6 engines, not much use or continued production)
Ar 190(sea plane with some cannons and MGs as well as rear gun postion, early war plane)
Go 244(could be used as a goon for LW)
Thats my list, yes yes i know there are tons of other planes which are much more needed than these, just my list of LW planes for the future of AH.
:D :aok
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You may be lucky to get a few of those!
I'd like to see:-
Me410
He177
Do217
Ju188
Ju290
He162
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lol we need more axis plane:
1) italian have no jabo and no bomber
2) LW have only j88 an j87 where are
Do 17 lots of varients we could use.
Ju 88 lots of varients we could use.
Ju 87 afew varients we could also use.
He 177 LW need a heavy bomber.
Me 210 high speed bomber.
Do 335 version capable of carrying bombs.
Go-229(didnt quite make the war, but the A-1 version was in pretty far development, since i think HT will prob consider planes that just missed the war i just put it here.)
Ar 234B-2 (had 4 engines instead of 2, good high speed bomber with limited use.)
Fw 200 ok long range bomber.
Ju 390(massive bomber with 6 engines, not much use or continued production)
Ar 190(sea plane with some cannons and MGs as well as rear gun postion, early war plane)
Go 244(could be used as a goon for LW)
3) japan!!!! where are 2 enginee bomber and jabo, and all the
army figther .....
4) Russian alt least one pe and bomber
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Bigjava, I'd love to see many other planes from other countries too, but the thread is 'LW plane list for AH2' and therefore we shouldn't hijack it by requesting different aircraft (I was very tempted to do so myself!) :)
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Jeez, why don't you just list all of them.
Try to be realistic. Also try to limit it to aircraft that saw combat.
For example I'd like to see the following German aircraft:
Bf109G-6/AS or Bf109G-14
Fw190A-2
Ju188A-1
Me410B-2
That is a short enough list to look like something other than "I want the next five versions to add nothing but German aircraft" and it covers all of the bases, early war Fw190, Bf109 between the G-6 and G-10, a great mid-war bomber and a great Jabo aircraft. All of that accomplished with only four aircraft added.
Focus on filling the big gaps. The fine gaps can be left until the huge, major, dwarf any gap in the German set, gaps in the Russian and Japanese sets can be filled.
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Originally posted by Replicant
Bigjava, I'd love to see many other planes from other countries too, but the thread is 'LW plane list for AH2' and therefore we shouldn't hijack it by requesting different aircraft (I was very tempted to do so myself!) :)
ok ok i'm off topic :p
u have already made a disclamer about it...:D
Now keep in mind i already know there are tons of planes that are needed before these, this isnt a post saying i want them all rightnow blah blah blah, this is just planes id like to see sometime in AH doesnt really matter when.Since night isnt really a factor rightnow in AH i wont include night fighters
CMQ i aggree your personal list!!!!
so thinking only to LW
my best neede are
figther
HS 129
Bf 109G-14(mid late war)
Bf 109K-4(later war)
Bf 109F-2(early mid war plane)
Fw 190A-1(early war)
Fw 190A-2(early war)
Me 410
He 162(late war limited use, but since in AH all the problems with the original aircraft arent modeled, it should be ok)
bomber
Ju 88 with 30mm nose mounted and 20mm 45° mounted
Ju 87 carring 40mm gunpod
He 177 (!!!!!!!!!!)
HE 111 (super!!!!!!!!)
he 277
he274
do 17
FW 200
Ju-388
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i listed most of em cuz i want em, like i said before i know there are more planes they will be needed way before many of these ever see AH, im saying with the times the more memory faster computers for less money if AH keeps goin eventually there will be hundreds of aircraft, also like i said before with scenerios comeing out that happend 10 years after the war, i see no reason why HT wouldnt consider planes that were at least in squadrons during ww2 or making flights. The list is possible AH is a big game already and continually growing with people from all over the world, who knows how long AH will last we could all be playin for another 10 years its possible, id think some of these planes could be added in a per. of 10 years, and i know we dont need some of the 109s, but say ur alil german boy who loves the luftwaffe and wishes he was a pilot in ww2, now lil hanze or whatever his name may be loves the 109G-14 although the G-10 is close to the G-14, its not a G-14 so it lessens his expierence, he wants to fly his plane and act like hes in ww2, all in all i doubt many of these planes will be added, i just made a list of what id like to see in the future.:aok PS: i woulda added em all but i got tired of typen:D
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Obviously the main line of interest for fighters, would be which version of the Bf109 would fill the gap between the standard '43 G-6 and the '44 G-10(which, came out even later than the K-4).
The various configurations of labels and engines still confuse me very much :)
As I understand, the versions modified after factory output retained the "G-6" label, whilst the versions which had the modifications implemented from the factory process itself got the label "G-14", even though the configuration may be identical - is this correct?
Thus, I understand it as there were four major G-6 modification types between the G-6 and the G-10:
1. G-6 = G-6 + modifications(Erla Haube, Galland Hood, etc.)
2. G-6/AS = G-6 + mods + DB605AS
3. G-6/AM = G-6 + mods + DB605A + MW50
4. G-6/ASM = G-6 + mods+ DB605AS + MW50
Logically, it seems to me the first config. would be seen around almost immediately after combat trials of the '43 standard G-6, the second and third would have been tried simultaneously at late '43~early '44, and the last one would be around mid/late '44.
Am I assuming it right? I think the second~fourth config. would be considered as a "G-14", but which of the three, would be the 'standard G-14'?? :confused:
Also, the 1st config would be almost the same as the G-6, and the 4th would be very simular to the G-10 in performance. I think that leaves config. 2 and 3 as candidates for the "gap filler", but how was the performance? Would a DB605A+MW50 config out perform a BD605AS w/o MW50?
Wish someone could clarify these issues for me. :)
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i got a book with all the differences, when i get some time ill look it all up for you, tell ya what the differences were from variation to variation between G-6 - G-14, there were some other things i was gonna add to this list of LW stuff we could use, such as weapons Air to Air rockets and other bombs, some variants were just modifyed to carry rockets or special weapons.
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This is all probably stuff everyone knew but here it goes, did alil bita lookin up on the different 109 varients.
The 1st G-6s differed from the G-4 only in that the Mg 17s were replaced with Mg 131s, in early 1944 the DB 605A was replaced with the slightly more powerful DB 605AS for more power at heighths, it included the power of the DB 605A with the more powerful super charger of the DB 603.
The G-10 was improved with an added DB 605D
The G-14 was just an improved G-6 with a later version of the DB 605AS, so im assuming the G-14 probably had some better qualities and speed then the G-6.
The G-16 was the last model of 109Gs and was improved with a DB 605L but was produced in limited numbers.
The 109K-4 used the DB 605D also.
The 109K-6 limited numbers also was going to be equiped with a DB 605ASCM/DCM engine, it had 2 MG 131s, the MK 108 nose cannon and 2 wing mounted MK 108s, it also had a calculated speed of 608km/h rising to 728km/h at 8000 meters.
DB 605A - 1474 hp
DB 605D - 1850 hp
thats a quick overview of what i found.:)
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Overall i think the best gap filler for early 43 mid 44 would be the 109G-6 with the DB 605AS, assuming the G-6 we have has the standard DB 605A.
For a later war version(late 44-45) id like to see a 109K-6(very limited production and use) or a K-4 to go with the G-10
Another which may be a good plane to fill the gap between early 43 and mid 44 would be the 109G-8 same as G-6 but with added GM-1 system.
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I want to see a D9 '45 with MW50 goodness as a perk of course to compete with the Tempestino yes 2240PS yes uh huh uh huh.
Too I want to see a 190F8 with R4M and an Me262 A2 with them as well.
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as per original post ....
how fun would the DO335 be at like 100 perks !!!!
EAT those tempests and spit14 alive!
although historicalyl not right ... chasing down and catching a 262 would be fun too.
Capable of a maximum speed of 474 mph at 21,325 ft with MW 50 boost, or 426 mph without boost, and able to climb to 26,250 ft in only 14.5 minutes, the Do 335A-1 could easily outpace any Allied fighters it encountered. It could also carry a bomb load of 1100 lb for 900 miles.
also the range and bomb load would be sweet... nothing like killing barracks in rear line bases in a perk plane!!
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Me410
G-6A/S
F8 with real loadouts, like panzerblitz, that huge bomb etc.
a faster D9.
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yes, i also would like to see some new weapons like air to air rockets, panzerschrecks, some more types of bombs etc etc:aok
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We do have air to air rockets, but they're useless because a nearby airburst (nearby as in, part of the burst graphic is inside the bomber) does nothing, and a direct hit is the only useful thing, in which you may as well use american HVAR rockets or even better, your guns, considering the range you'll have to be at to his reliably
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El Glassoid, doesn't our D-9 already have the MW50?
Or did you mean those special JV44 D-9s with enhanced low/mid alt performance?? :o
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Doesn't our D-9 already have the MW50?
Yes, it does.
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re: D9:
There was a conclusion that our D9 is only 1920ps or so, whereas one of the LW D9 was 2100 or more, and it wasn't the JV44 specials.
Either that or more power for the 152's GM1. Pyro was willing to explain MW50 but not GM1, would be satisfying to either be told why or just told we're not going to get an explanation at all, close the debate.
re WGr21:
They are killer, just need to have them hit or be just near the bombers. Saw one burst kill two and badly damage the third of a B17 formation on one occasion.
They are as effective as other rockets when a2g for vulching. They used to work as well also on GVs, but the DM revision probably changed that.
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The only LW plane I want to see is the Ju188 that's one beutiful bomber.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
El Glassoid, doesn't our D-9 already have the MW50?
Or did you mean those special JV44 D-9s with enhanced low/mid alt performance?? :o
Ah yes the polished Doras of the Sachsenberg Schwarm. When you have guys that flat out say it was the fastest down low they knew what they had their hands on. Considering they never went above 1000 meters that is saying something.
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Cool, i never knew we had air to air rockets, i thought people just used the ground rockets for air to air, ill have to go try this out abit see what happens. :aok
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Heres some info i gatherd on 190D development, varients, loads etc.
Further development of the already proven A series began with the Fw-190Ds
The first production 190Ds were fitted with Jumo 213A engines,the more powerful D-9,D-10 and D-15 can be considerd the peak of 190 development.
Oct, 1944 D-9s were first equipped with the Jumo 213A-1 which was later replaced with the Jumo 213C-1, Armament first consisted of 2 MG 131s placed on the fuselodge and 2 MG 151/20s, 2 further MG 151/20s or 2 MK 108s could be placed in the wing, in which case the MG 131s in the fuselodge were removed.
Only 2 examples of the D-10 with the Jumo 213C-1 and one MK 108 were produced and after tests in the summer of 1944 they became part of the Ta-152 programme.
The D-11 was the all weather version of the D and differd mainly in the use of the Jumo 213F-1 engine with super charger,Factory summary on 15 Oct 1944 decided no series production was to begin, at the begining of 1945 head of TLR decided to begin production of the D-11 by spring. The MK 108 and MG 151 armament was to remain the same, up to the end of the war there were just some 7 D-11s
In 1944 air minestry decided to orederd the series production of the D-12 from December with the Jumo 213E engine and MW50 injection system(later replaced with the Jumo 213F-1 engine)and also required the 2 stage supercharger to be available, if possible, Armament consisted of one central MK108 cannon and 2 MG 151/20s in the wing roots, the D-12 could also serve as a torpedo launcher for the D-9 series which as coming to an end,D-12 production began in 1945
The D-13 differed from the D-11 and D-12 only in that it replaced the MK108 with the MG 151/20.
The high alt D-14 based on the D-9 carried the DB 603LA engine,this varient was part of the forward plan in 1945, it was then used for development of the 152 as production was failing and the DB 605s were intended for 152s, the same can be said for the high alt D-15 based on the D-14 it was powerd by the DB 603G and armament consisted of 2 MK 108s and 2 MG 151/20s.
Theres what i found on 190Ds, from what i read it didnt say anything about GM-1 injection, just the MW50, btw my source is mainly "The Luftwaffe Album" great book lots of info also info gatherd from some other books and web sites.
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Originally posted by moot
F8 with real loadouts, like panzerblitz, that huge bomb etc.
If you mean the 1800 kg bomb, it was the FW-190G-series that was able to carry it. G1 was derived from A5, but had strengthened landing gear. It also had wing racks for bombs or 300-litre drop tanks.
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Come on guys, everyone knows that all we really need is the Ho-229. ;)
(http://www.luft46.com/mmart/mm229-6.jpg)
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Originally posted by MaddDog
Heres some info i gatherd on 190D development, varients, loads etc.
Further development of the already proven A series began with the Fw-190Ds
The first production 190Ds were fitted with Jumo 213A engines,the more powerful D-9,D-10 and D-15 can be considerd the peak of 190 development.
Oct, 1944 D-9s were first equipped with the Jumo 213A-1 which was later replaced with the Jumo 213C-1, Armament first consisted of 2 MG 131s placed on the fuselodge and 2 MG 151/20s, 2 further MG 151/20s or 2 MK 108s could be placed in the wing, in which case the MG 131s in the fuselodge were removed.
Only 2 examples of the D-10 with the Jumo 213C-1 and one MK 108 were produced and after tests in the summer of 1944 they became part of the Ta-152 programme.
The D-11 was the all weather version of the D and differd mainly in the use of the Jumo 213F-1 engine with super charger,Factory summary on 15 Oct 1944 decided no series production was to begin, at the begining of 1945 head of TLR decided to begin production of the D-11 by spring. The MK 108 and MG 151 armament was to remain the same, up to the end of the war there were just some 7 D-11s
In 1944 air minestry decided to orederd the series production of the D-12 from December with the Jumo 213E engine and MW50 injection system(later replaced with the Jumo 213F-1 engine)and also required the 2 stage supercharger to be available, if possible, Armament consisted of one central MK108 cannon and 2 MG 151/20s in the wing roots, the D-12 could also serve as a torpedo launcher for the D-9 series which as coming to an end,D-12 production began in 1945
The D-13 differed from the D-11 and D-12 only in that it replaced the MK108 with the MG 151/20.
The high alt D-14 based on the D-9 carried the DB 603LA engine,this varient was part of the forward plan in 1945, it was then used for development of the 152 as production was failing and the DB 605s were intended for 152s, the same can be said for the high alt D-15 based on the D-14 it was powerd by the DB 603G and armament consisted of 2 MK 108s and 2 MG 151/20s.
Theres what i found on 190Ds, from what i read it didnt say anything about GM-1 injection, just the MW50, btw my source is mainly "The Luftwaffe Album" great book lots of info also info gatherd from some other books and web sites.
MADDOG, teh production quotes for the D-11 are way off. THere were actually quite a few produced. Don't have the figures but I have that book and there are a ton of inaccuracies in it. Good book though for spending a good 30 minutes on the head.
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Well I think our Dora is the one with Fuel Injection of high octane fuel the 1900 Dora the MW-50 Dora gave out 2k+ HP
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190 A9.
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Glasses is right about our Dora, and that’s the only one we need really. Our Dora is 1900ps with c3 injection (so it seems)
No more wonderwaffe BS.
109s
109e4/b w/DB601N or 109e7/b
109f2
109g6/as
109g14
109k4
The reason we need a g6/as and a g14 is because the g6as is better for high alt and the g14 is a better for low alt ostfront stuff. With our G10 we could do without the g6/as and k4. But wtf we are dreaming right?
That’s all the 109s we need
190s
190a2
190a3/4 (we don’t need either but pick one anyway)
190a6
190a9
The a2 allows the 190 to get introduced earlier especially in events. An a3/a4 is just there to squelch the whines some throw out when we use the a5 as a replacement. The a6 adds 4 x mg151/20mm. The a9 just kicks arse. We don’t need a 190d9 with mw50 or one that’s tweaked for low alt. The D9 we got kicks arse as is. We don’t need any D11s or any of that especially considering "need" across the plane set.
Ju87s
Ju87b2
Ju87G
That’s it
Ju88s
Ju88a1 or a5 (a5 is easier because its same airframe as a4 but slower)
Ju88c6 (Fighter variant)
Bombers
He111
Do17z
Ju188
He177
That’s covers all we need.
210/410
Pic one it don’t matter.
Karnak's list is a more realistic one. Except no ju188.
Bf109G-6/AS or Bf109G-14 (if we have to pic take the g14 as it will get more main time)
Fw190A-2
He111 (need this for BoB)
Me410B-2
But we need planes from other countries. The lw in ah face all late war USAAF and VVS Stuff. IIRC all the USAAF stuff except the p40 is 1944+. The VVS have a yak9u and la7. The la5fn and yak9t are ok but we need laggs migs and early yaks. Then the Japanese need more then any other country. With Pac we face the same situation.
Then the RAF has a crappy spit 9.
Its taken 3 + years to get the planes we got. If you are seriously looking for "new planes" they you need to narrow your search considerably. Expect no more then 1 or 2 to be introduced. So pick wisely and campaign for something thats has a real likelyhood of getting introduced.
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Some clarification on the 109g6, 109g6/as and 109g14.
The 109g6 we have now is the early one with the DB605a1 and NO mw50.
What we need is the G14.
The G14 had the DB605A-1 but with MW 50 (DB605AM). It was in service from spring 44 on.
The the G6/as would be an high alt fighter and mostly used for west front bomber intercept scenarios.
We dont need a g14/ASM (DB605ASM). The DB605AS engine had a higher rated alt then even the DB605d used on our g10. Theres no need for mw50 up there. The AS eng would suck at low med alt. So just give us a gustav with a DB605AM and that is the 109g14.
FYI a G14 is just a g6 + MW50.
We would get more use out of the g14 for low med alt fights. The only reason we would need/want a g6/as is for high alt stuff but even so our g10 can fill that gap just like it can for the k4.
So no G6/ASM or G14/ASM. Just give us a g14. :)
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Originally posted by MaddDog
Now keep in mind i already know there are tons of planes that are needed before these, this isnt a post saying i want them all rightnow blah blah blah, this is just planes id like to see sometime in AH doesnt really matter when.Since night isnt really a factor rightnow in AH i wont include night fighters.
Fighters:
Bf 109E-7(early war plane)
Bf 109T-2(Carrier Version in limited production)
Bf 109F-2(early mid war plane)
Bf 109G-14(mid late war)
Bf 109K-4(later war)
Fw 190A-1(early war)
Fw 190A-2(early war)
Fw 190D-11(late war, good for battle against late war spits)
Me 410 (good for jabo)
Do 335 (limited production/use)
Me 262A-1a/U4(50mm nose mounted cannon :D)
Me 262A-1a/U5(6 nose mounted 30mms)
Me 262A-2a(version capable of carrying rockets/bombs)
He 162(late war limited use, but since in AH all the problems with the original aircraft arent modeled, it should be ok)
Bombers:
Do 17 lots of varients we could use.
Ju 88 lots of varients we could use.
Ju 87 afew varients we could also use.
He 177 LW need a heavy bomber.
Me 210 high speed bomber.
Do 335 version capable of carrying bombs.
Go-229(didnt quite make the war, but the A-1 version was in pretty far development, since i think HT will prob consider planes that just missed the war i just put it here.)
Ar 234B-2 (had 4 engines instead of 2, good high speed bomber with limited use.)
Fw 200 ok long range bomber.
Ju 390(massive bomber with 6 engines, not much use or continued production)
Ar 190(sea plane with some cannons and MGs as well as rear gun postion, early war plane)
Go 244(could be used as a goon for LW)
Thats my list, yes yes i know there are tons of other planes which are much more needed than these, just my list of LW planes for the future of AH.
:D :aok
Let me add some lists that havent got on your lists and i'll be glad to help you :D
Arado AR 196A-3 (Single engined Floatplane)
Dornier DO 217 (Twin Enginged medium bomber)
Heinkel HE 219 (Night fighter)
Junkers JU 52/3m (Transport plane)
Junkers JU 188E (Twin Enginged bomber)
Messerschmitt ME 262B-1a(Jet fighter)
Messerschmitt ME 262B-1a/U1(Jet Night fighter)
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Come on guys, everyone knows that all we really need is the Ho-229. ;)
(http://www.luft46.com/mmart/mm229-6.jpg)
Then give us that B29 too!
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Come on guys, everyone knows that all we really need is the Ho-229. ;)
At least use a better picture....
(http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr229-1.jpg)
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Originally posted by Shiva
At least use a better picture....
Ah, come on! it's for aces high! Diablo has a good pic for that :lol
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Give me a 190D9 with MW50 damnit! or give me one at least powered by Jagermeister :D
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With B4 / 87octane fuel in May 1944 with MW-50 tested by the US gave the following speeds:
357 mph (sea level)
tested by Whels otd speeds
Mil
190D-9 346
WEP
190D-9 375
Early Doras with a stock Jumo 213A was not better much then the Fw190A-8 except at alt.
Dora's received a field modification "Ladedruckssteigerungs-Rüstatz" which increased power from 1750 to 1900PS. If I am not mistaken this was Erhöhte Notleistung or C3 injection. It worked like mw50 by its charge-cooling effect and could only be used for 10 min.
Maybe some one with better knowledge then me will point out any error.
Anyway Real men fly 109s :p
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Wouldn't it be nice that we had to do reconnaissance flights? would make ah much more realistic.
When we do have them, add the Blohm & Voss BV-141 A10