Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: SELECTOR on October 19, 2003, 06:04:02 PM
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hmmm
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agreed.
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yeap
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Just what I like to see - constructive feedback! :rolleyes:
Anyone care to explain this thread?
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cc flossy i will give you a brief summery as i see it..
first off there has been a few problems with the SEA last week or so (as i see it from a player..discos no vox and stuff like that)
so the scenario was delayed by 25 mins .. we were told to exit the arena while it was re set..(ok no problem so far)..a lot of people including our squad went to ma for a while. once back into SEA we found the event already started (4 mins i belive) now being late is our fault i understand , but we was vulched on the runway by 262s 4 min after the start of the frame. so HMMM is all i could say.
oh by the way , we did get back within the original 25 min.
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- 11 Tempests and 9 Spit14.
- Enemy contact after 5min.
- CiC job assigned to a squad that didn't participate
- 10k alt restriction
- no email contacts in orders for the CiC
- no numbers in the orders
- no front line in orders (that I got for frame 2)
- again MAG33 switched for balancing
The list would be longer, if I wouldn't calmed down over night.
After 20min of event time, many people were flying in the MA and discussing how much they "enjoyed" this event. Lucky for the JBs that they didn't participate!
And I tried to get a new squadron into SSO. :rofl
And Viff, IMO it stinks, when the CiC assignes his own squadron all restricted planes, which includes mixing plane types and in the end using more than allowed by orders. ;)
And no, I don't complain about flying 190A5 or wanted to fly a restricted plane. Also, I don't say, you broke any rule. ;)
This scenario was a huge step backward and got SSO again closer to death.
[sarcasm=on]
Well done!
[sarcasm=off]
Dear CM team,
please, you said you want to take care about SSO and bring it back to old strenght and player numbers, so that we all could have more fun (again). You didn't show that in the last series, but I hope you'll do in the next.
Regards
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Originally posted by lucull
- 11 Tempests and 9 Spit14.
- Enemy contact after 5min.
- CiC job assigned to a squad that didn't participate
- 10k alt restriction
- no email contacts in orders for the CiC
- no numbers in the orders
- no front line in orders (that I got for frame 2)
- again MAG33 switched for balancing
The list would be longer, if I wouldn't calmed down over night.
After 20min of event time, many people were flying in the MA and discussing how much they "enjoyed" this event. Lucky for the JBs that they didn't participate!
And I tried to get a new squadron into SSO. :rofl
And Viff, IMO it stinks, when the CiC assignes his own squadron all restricted planes, which includes mixing plane types and in the end using more than allowed by orders. ;)
And no, I don't complain about flying 190A5 or wanted to fly a restricted plane. Also, I don't say, you broke any rule. ;)
This scenario was a huge step backward and got SSO again closer to death.
[sarcasm=on]
Well done!
[sarcasm=off]
Dear CM team,
please, you said you want to take care about SSO and bring it back to old strenght and player numbers, so that we all could have more fun (again). You didn't show that in the last series, but I hope you'll do in the next.
Regards
1. There were 6 tempests and 6 Spit 14s. Your numbers are incorrect
2. I cannot control this.
3. 50/50 like hate, what can I do?
4. I cannot control this.
5. I cannot control this.
6. I cannot control this.
7. This is only reasonable.
If squads cannot get on and talk to each other reasonably, this is going to kill the event.
Of all the point you made, the vast majority of the actions are with the players. It is up to you all to make this work.
I really don't understand peoples attitude here, this event will not work unless everyone pulls together. That means flying something you don't like now and then and getting bounced and putting it off to a bad day.
If you cannot accept this then it will not work.
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As I didn't number my points, could you please assign your answers, so we don't talk at cross-purposes. TY
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I took the numbers of Tempests and Spit14 from the logs which are provided by innomi8 after someone told me in the MA, that he saw about 11 Tempests.
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There definitely was more tempests than those 4 allowed...
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Viff, IMO it stinks, when the CiC assignes his own squadron all restricted planes, which includes mixing plane types and in the end using more than allowed by orders.
Sorry, CiC privledges :)
When you CiC next time you can assign your squadron the best planes, and give 101 Sqn the worst planes.
We went over our restriction by 1x 262, which was a mistake on my part. Instead of having 4x 262 we had 5, thats all.
I did not recieve any info on how many tempests the allies would be able to field, so I can't comment if they went over their allotment or not.
Anybody know if they did ?
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Originally posted by Puudeli
There definitely was more tempests than those 4 allowed...
There were six allowed and used. I don't know how you could know how many were allowed?
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It's the CiC's duty to assign planes, not the privelege. :aok
And I talk about 5x262s AND 4x190D9 you assigned your squad. Of course with "it stinks", I don't mean using 5 262s. ;)
When you CiC next time you can assign your squadron the best planes, and give 101 Sqn the worst planes.
It's not my style to abuse the CiC's duty. :)
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Innomi8's logs show more Tempests because he counts every spawned plane, but if someone, like it happenend yesterday, spawns, goes back to tower and spawns again, it is counted as 2 Tempests instead of one, which would be correct.
Originally written by Grayarea
Given the way this frame went I am feeling likely to increase the number of restricted planes for the Allies while leaving the Axis numbers alone. What are peoples views on the following for the next frame.
Spit XiV 6 (was 4)
Tempest 6 (was 4)
190D9 4
262 4
:)
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IMHO this was one of the best SSOs in a long time. Here are my reasons for saying that.
1. Great plane match up with numbers of unbalancing planes kept to just the right level.
2. 12k Alt limit worked well, meant the perk planes had to work hard and stay sharp. As this was a jabo scenario there would have been nothing served by having 35k tempests and 262s whizzing around doing SFA.
3. Targets for each side where acheivable with a moderate amount of good planning.
I really enjoyed this one. It seems to me those who didnt are in the minority.
Originally Posted By Lucull
I took the numbers of Tempests and Spit14 from the logs which are provided by innomi8 after someone told me in the MA, that he saw about 11 Tempests.
You must be kidding,somone in the MA told you, and on the basis of that you then come to this and some other pretty unsubstantive opinions you come to this board and slam the whole SSO??
There were 6 tempests allowed and there were 6 tempests flown. They were all assigned to No56 Firebirds and I led them into battle.
As far as I see it its the CiCs sole discretion as to how he assigns the available planes, there is nothing the SO CMs can do about that.
As far as orders were concerned you were given your assignment in good time. WHy does CiC's contact details (or lack thereof) make for a bad SSO? ALl your other issues are just issues with the CO. There is not one single issue that you lay out and substantiate that the SSO CM team could do anything about.
Isnt it true that what this really boils down to is that when some people dont perform to their undoubted potential then they blame the event??
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Guys.... the SquadOps are what you, the participants, make it. It seems to me that for some reason the participants of the Sunday SquadOps do not work as well together as those involved in the Friday SquadOPs - why else would the Friday SquadOps be so successful and popular? We are the same people organising both events, yet one is more successful than the other; that can only mean the difference is the actual players.
I think the problem with Sunday SquadOps is there is not enough team-work. Most squads are happy to fly anything if it helps their side to win, but there are a significant few in SSO who simply don't turn up if they don't get what they want. This is not in the spirit of the SquadOps! If your squad is assigned bombers - fly them! If you get bombers again in the next frame, contact the CO and point out you had them last time he may be able to swop you. If it's not possible, fly them again and speak up in good time before the next one. Talk to each other - that's what this forum is here for. It is just not acceptable to simply not turn up - apart from letting your side down, you let the whole event down and we get threads like this appearing.
We as CMs can only do so much - in the end it is up to you, the players, to make sure orders are out in good time, your minimum committed levels turn up for each frame and you carry out the orders to the best of your ability, regardless of what you are asked to fly.
I appreciate the difficulties with not having a central point for Squads to keep their details or email contacts at the moment, but can assure you Gremlin is working hard to get something in place sometime over the next couple of months, so your patience would be appreciated in the meantime.
I am sorry things didn't work out well for some of you in yesterday's frame, but most of the problems were out of our hands. Maybe time for you all to work together more to make the Sunday SquadOps more successful? :)
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The 11 temps show because the 56 had a change of plan at the last moment. We ditched our eggs when we spawned. Then it was decided that we needed them. So before we took off we went back to the tower and respawned with the eggs. Only 6 temps flew into combat regardless of how many spawned.
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it wasn't the planes that did us in .. it was the being vulched on the runway...
i think a way of making sunday squad ops more popular is getting them to run on time..The organisers may want to check the system a little earlyer.i entered the arena 25 min before start and there was no one there..also all this alt restrictions is garbage 2 weeks in a row we been assigned p47 you can not compete with most planes at 10k and below. i tried a loop manover last week and went over 10k almost ended up in a diferent sector..very arcadish...i want my squad ops to be best man wins and do anything to achive that win..
( remember for fridays squad ops the europeans are all tucked up in bed..where as the sunday SO they have to compete with the american mid afternoon croud..its a no win situation..)
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
The organisers may want to check the system a little earlyer.i entered the arena 25 min before start and there was no one there..
So there was nobody in the arena 25 minutes before the start? Maybe not - but the arena was all set up ready and the only reason Skyman (hosting CM) was not there was because he had a Windows crash between setting up and the event starting and had to reinstall. He had already posted the problem in the CM forum so that someone could cover if necessary, but as it turned out he managed to get done in time anyway.
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An "Alt Cap" with a P-47!!! :(
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
i think a way of making sunday squad ops more popular is getting them to run on time..The organisers may want to check the system a little earlyer.i entered the arena 25 min before start and there was no one there..
Selector you seem to have a thing about punctuality. Thats fine, but you must realise that CMs have real lives too. I happen to know that Skyman was working like a man possessed just to be able to make it at all. His system went belly up that afternoon and he needed to completely rebuild it. Not your problem, but you know stuff happens.
Maybe you could ask yourself this, why did you have to go to the MA?? Would it not have been more productive if you stayed put and assisted your CO with the planning process. I happen to know that Vladd had some pretty good rides up for grabs during the period you were away. If you had stayed you could have claimed them.
Also looking at the logs, it makes no sense to me how you can say you were vulched 'on the runway'. The your pilots were in the air way long enough to fight your corner. So your real point comes down to being given P47-25s again. Did you once ask for another ride?? If you did I certainly didnt hear it
As for the 12k alt limit, you must realise that this was a jabo event, it was not designed for alt monkeying, without it you would have been up against 35k 262s, and there would be no jabo rides making it to target with 30k cap covering the targets.
Whether you agree with the alt limit or not, one thing that I know would have upset people is to see enemy planes violating this. Thus the wind layer is the only method we have to enforce an alt limit. Like it or not it was the same for both sides so as you say, it is a case of 'the best man wins'.
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its time to close door and turn off the light?
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Ramzey, I don't think your negative comments are helping at all.
Heres two suggestions for you:
a) Apply to become a CM, once your part of the team maybe you can run these events the way you think is right.
b) Leave the light on, close the door, but don't let it hit your prettythang on the way out.... cause there are enough folks here that still have fun in this event.
cheers
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Originally posted by ViFF
Ramzey, I don't think your negative comments are helping at all.
Heres two suggestions for you:
a) Apply to become a CM, once your part of the team maybe you can run these events the way you think is right.
b) Leave the light on, close the door, but don't let it hit your prettythang on the way out.... cause there are enough folks here that still have fun in this event.
cheers
very thx for this excellent advices!!!
in my dumb brain i cannot find so simply solutions and you bright me!!! thx men!!
a) I can be in CM corps after somone dead body ;-) if you know what im talking about
b) stay away from my prettythang, im lesbian not gey
better list your sins
ramzey
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I can be in CM corps after somone dead body ;-) if you know what im talking about
lol I said that about seeker once and now look at him. And I was the one that let him in! Of course you would have to get by flossy. I don't make those kinds of decisions any more. ;)
As for the SSO why would you fly in it if you would want us to consider ending it ramzey? Just want to understand your actions and thinking.
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Sir
Me and Seeker understand each other quite good;)
I dont like to be CM right now, i can do same things being outside corps.
I still count on som things whichone should be done long time ago, and Flossy know what im talking about ;-)
I not like experiments again, this tour proof NEW not mean good,
Rightnow we stand in same point like 8 months ago.
And som people never learn 0on his own mistakes.
better i just shut up right now
best regards
ramzey
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You must be kidding,somone in the MA told you, and on the basis of that you then come to this and some other pretty unsubstantive opinions you come to this board and slam the whole SSO??
Is a participating player not a source for this and didn't I checked logs before I posted? I think I explained sufficiently, why I thought allied had 11 Tempests and I found the mistake.
I will email innomi8 about the flaw in his script.
Did anybody slam the whole event by this? I don't see it, help me pls. ;)
As far as orders were concerned you were given your assignment in good time. WHy does CiC's contact details (or lack thereof) make for a bad SSO?
Ahm, you didn't read correct, I complain because I was CiC in frame 2.
If you have to dig for numbers and emails, it's not good, or?
That's something the admin CM should have or on which base does he assign the squads to the sides or email the CiCs the orders?
And how does he tell the setup CM, how he wants to have the front line? Isn't a map with it a good way and prevents mistakes when you just write the numbers, which always could have a number turned?
Anyway, is it so much work to do that? If it helps your setup and the CiC?
Isnt it true that what this really boils down to is that when some people dont perform to their undoubted potential then they blame the event??
Dolt :rofl
Guys.... the SquadOps are what you, the participants, make it. It seems to me that for some reason the participants of the Sunday SquadOps do not work as well together as those involved in the Friday SquadOPs - why else would the Friday SquadOps be so successful and popular? We are the same people organising both events, yet one is more successful than the other; that can only mean the difference is the actual players.
I suggest, you run the same setup on friday squad ops and we will have the answer to this question.
Sure, we are not a big family who loves each other in SSO (you and ghostdancer should know that better than anybody else, if you can remember), but you're making it yourself really easy blaming the players that they have no fun and leave this event. Really great.
And you do you compare US prime time with US sunday lunch time? :rofl
I think the problem with Sunday SquadOps is there is not enough team-work. Most squads are happy to fly anything if it helps their side to win, but there are a significant few in SSO who simply don't turn up if they don't get what they want. This is not in the spirit of the SquadOps! If your squad is assigned bombers - fly them! If you get bombers again in the next frame, contact the CO and point out you had them last time he may be able to swop you. If it's not possible, fly them again and speak up in good time before the next one. Talk to each other - that's what this forum is here for. It is just not acceptable to simply not turn up - apart from letting your side down, you let the whole event down and we get threads like this appearing.
A little late and I guess the right people are not reached.
I told Viff, eventho I personnaly am not envious of 262s and 190D (308 flew them in frame 1), it stinks when the CiC assigns his own squad ALL restricted planes. This is of course no reason, why I didn't like "V1 Hunters", but I didn't say that. This was obviously directed to Viff, who see it as a privilege doing it looking at his answer.
We as CMs can only do so much - in the end it is up to you, the players, to make sure orders are out in good time, your minimum committed levels turn up for each frame and you carry out the orders to the best of your ability, regardless of what you are asked to fly.
Of course, but has the setup nothing to do with the "fun" of an event. Should we just all meet at sunday and furball abit together, oh we did it like this. Dang!
Also I don't agree with squads switching sides. Not because I think that in this case MAG33 knew the orders and would abuse this knowledge, it's just bad for the tactical issue of the CiC. It leaves holes and you can't change the whole battle plan for this.
I would more like to see, that the goals would be adjusted for the really outnumbered side (for instance attack only one field, etc.).
Flexibility helps here a lot, but the admin/setup CM can also do his part. ;)
But those are my thoughts on this point.
I appreciate the difficulties with not having a central point for Squads to keep their details or email contacts at the moment, but can assure you Gremlin is working hard to get something in place sometime over the next couple of months, so your patience would be appreciated in the meantime.
Frankly, how many month is the old server down now?
But that is not the problem, just read the CM orders from last SSO series.
I am sorry things didn't work out well for some of you in yesterday's frame, but most of the problems were out of our hands. Maybe time for you all to work together more to make the Sunday SquadOps more successful?
I disagree. Frankly, your attitude is one of the problems SSO has.
I'm still waiting for Grayarea to assign his answers to my points I've written down. I would appreciate that, but I think, I've already said my opinion on most points.
Maybe you could ask yourself this, why did you have to go to the MA?? Would it not have been more productive if you stayed put and assisted your CO with the planning process. I happen to know that Vladd had some pretty good rides up for grabs during the period you were away. If you had stayed you could have claimed them.
Not everybody likes to wait 30min in tower, especially when the setup CM says, it will take him 30min to setup the arena again. Well, skyman did it faster. Way to go man! But this caused the people who went to the MA coming late and vultched on the runway. Well 5min late are normally not a problem, but in this setup the planes reached the enemy field in 5min.
You should also consider how people feel, after waiting 25min, maybe not all went to MA, and being vulched otr. Even MA bish gangbang missions take more time to reach their target. :D
As for the 12k alt limit, you must realise that this was a jabo event, it was not designed for alt monkeying, without it you would have been up against 35k 262s, and there would be no jabo rides making it to target with 30k cap covering the targets.
Cover, front sweep... you know what I mean?
262 in 35k? :rofl
Like it or not it was the same for both sides so as you say, it is a case of 'the best man wins'.
IMO this alt cap handicapped the axis planes more then the allies looking on performance and recommended tactics for the planes. Forcing P47 and Doras into low level furball is a bad joke, sorry.
But I repeat it.
[sarcasm=on]
Please run this setup on friday. I wanna see this "great idea" used not only for the few people in SSO. Everybody should benfit from it.
[sarcasm=off]
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As for the 12k alt limit, you must realise that this was a jabo event, it was not designed for alt monkeying, without it you would have been up against 35k 262s, and there would be no jabo rides making it to target with 30k cap covering the targets.
Gremlin & CM team, I completely disagree and am with 308Sqn on this one. Being too high while trying to protect a target from low level jabos is bad. Because of the short icon range they can get in and out without you ever knowing they were there.
By the time you see a field flashing the jabos are already on top of it releasing bombs, compression issues don't allow you to dive down quick enough to engage them, and by the time your down they are already on the way out of the field.
and imho there is nothing wrong with "alt monkeying".
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What a friggin' joke. I have never heard so much whining in my life. Its kinda strange that it always comes from the same source. If you dont like the events, 308th, then quit. What you're doing now certainly isnt helping the event in any way.
As far as the server question that I saw somebody mention above....we lost our events server when Exile quit the CM team. All the fine pages you used to see were all coded and hosted by Exile. He did great work for us and we were all sorry to see him go, but guess what...he burnt out. All the time he spent as a volunteeer working on those pages finally became too much and he needed a break. He also needed his webspace back, so we were forced to try to find an alternative. HTC said they would host the Events server. Problem there was they were a little busy with this thing called AH2....you may have heard of it?
I know its been a pain in the bellybutton for the Friday nite guys to keep in contact and make sure that we have good contacts for all squads, but blaming this on the fact that there is no events server is nothing but a bad excuse. If you really wanted to make this event as good as the Friday version, you could. All it takes is a little more effort by all involved. This whining will definitely get you nowhere.
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What a friggin' joke. I have never heard so much whining in my life. Its kinda strange that it always comes from the same source. If you dont like the events, 308th, then quit. What you're doing now certainly isnt helping the event in any way.
Well, I disagree. IMO there is a difference in whining and complaing and discussing the event and "new ideas". A CM should appreciate the input from the players rather than "shut up whiners, feel free to leave" attitude you have.
If discussions and critics are not welcome, of course I will leave, but I love flying events and it really takes a lot to spoil my fun doing it and I hope to prevent this writing down my points on this BB.
So, in my opinion you are whining about people discussing and critizising or did you use any arguments?
I'm curious, do you fly SSO?
I know its been a pain in the bellybutton for the Friday nite guys to keep in contact and make sure that we have good contacts for all squads, but blaming this on the fact that there is no events server is nothing but a bad excuse. If you really wanted to make this event as good as the Friday version, you could. All it takes is a little more effort by all involved.
Let me quote myself: ;)
But that is not the problem, just read the CM orders from last SSO series.
SSO has far less squads and therefor an easier to manage communication structure. You missed the point.
I know its been a pain in the bellybutton for the Friday nite guys to keep in contact and make sure that we have good contacts for all squads, but blaming this on the fact that there is no events server is nothing but a bad excuse.
This argument is used by the CM team, everytime a communication problem occurs. I wonder if it's such "a pain in the prettythang", why it's like that since the beginning of the year?
Ever considered using a substitute meanwhile in the last month?
Just to be sure you don't missunderstand, this is not a big problem in SSO.
I want to add one thing to what Viff said. You can't make a Jabo attack coming in on the target from 30k for many reasons. You will loose people overspeeding in dive, you have to descend over (which is bad for surprise attacks) or in front of the target (which is a good tactic, but you would never climb with heavies to 30k.
Nobody is able to defend without a significant alt or speed advantage. You get also the scenario Viff desribed of incoming jabos, destroying everything in a fast attack and running home. Of course, that's the way to make it succesfully, but the defenders need a realistic chance, uh?
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Originally posted by ViFF
Gremlin & CM team, I completely disagree and am with 308Sqn on this one. Being too high while trying to protect a target from low level jabos is bad. Because of the short icon range they can get in and out without you ever knowing they were there.
By the time you see a field flashing the jabos are already on top of it releasing bombs, compression issues don't allow you to dive down quick enough to engage them, and by the time your down they are already on the way out of the field.
and imho there is nothing wrong with "alt monkeying".
Viff, glad to be reading some constructive input on this thread makes a refreshing change Sir.
I agree there is nothing wrong with alt monkeying, its a noble art ,I mean I do it for a living in the MA:D But even without an alt limit there is nothing to stop the jabos going in at 12k anyway and be in and out as youy say before you even know they are there. Without an alt restriction your defenders just have further to dive to meet them. I just think the alt limit kept everyone on their toes a bit more and when the engagements happened they were fought more evenly. The first engagement I was involved in in frame 3 was with a bunch of your 109s and 190s. I have no doubt that they would have preferred to have a good alt advantage before engaging? But where would that have left heavy tempests and tiffies? I suggest it would have left em with an early exit. It is just my opinion that the 12k alt restriction kept it all a bit sharper and gave jabo rides a fairer chance. You think differently and I respect your opinion too:)
Remember when a few of your guys came up against our tempests at the end of frame 3?? That 5 minutes was the best 5 squad ops minutes I ever had. Thats what its about IMHO, historical planesets meeting up in a historical setting. Ill never forget, at the end of frame 3, trying to dump my tempie down on the field just after I ran outta gas with your 262 harrassing me and my other squaddie. That really had the adreniline flowing freely.
Hope you and your squad continue to enjoy SSOs, despite the best efforts of one or two detractors.
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Originally posted by Gremlin
You think differently and I respect your opinion too:)
Can I request that too? ;)
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Originally posted by lucull
I want to add one thing to what Viff said. You can't make a Jabo attack coming in on the target from 30k for many reasons. You will loose people overspeeding in dive, you have to descend over (which is bad for surprise attacks) or in front of the target (which is a good tactic, but you would never climb with heavies to 30k.
Nobody is able to defend without a significant alt or speed advantage. You get also the scenario Viff desribed of incoming jabos, destroying everything in a fast attack and running home. Of course, that's the way to make it succesfully, but the defenders need a realistic chance, uh?
You know something Lucull? *that* is the first constructive point you have made in the entire thread. You see constructive input is welcome but all you have managed to do up to now, is detract from the event with unsustainable argument and then when your argument is countered you take to pasting CMs who would dare to disagree with you.
Let me clear something up for you. The responsibility for developing the new events server has fallen to me. Only in the last 2-3months have we had the facility (given to us by HTC) to develop a new centralised web site with the ability to take a lot of the drudgery out of the admin type work out of SO's in general. I have spent pretty much 60% of my non-working time to get this up and running, but what we are talking here is a lot more than just SO's. It is a whole new website which will take in all of special events and give the CMs the tools they need. If will be around Christmas before its fully complete. If you cant wait until then I suggest you get out some web coding books and muck in:)
I'm not going to even begin to get into detail re-your last post because it wouldnt serve you me or SOs for me to do so so I'll just leave it there.
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Originally posted by lucull
Can I request that too?
Well lets look at your initial post again.
Originally posted by lucull
- 11 Tempests and 9 Spit14.[/B]
I think we both fairly agreed that that just didnt happen.
Originally posted by lucull
- Enemy contact after 5min.
[/B]
If that wasnt the fault of those players who decided (as they are quite entitled to do) to breeze off to the MA, then whos fault is it? Is it Skymans fault for starting the event as soon as it was possible? Would you say it would have been fair to keep the 90% of players who were happy to wait in the SEA, waiting longer until those other players were quite ready to start?
Originally posted by lucull
- CiC job assigned to a squad that didn't participate.[/B]
Well should that be taken up with the squad concerned. It is not an issue that the SO team can control is it?
Originally posted by lucull
- 10k alt restriction[/B]
Isnt it true that *that* point is the only real point in all of this which is truly worthy of lenghty discussion.
Originally posted by lucull
- no email contacts in orders for the CiC
- no numbers in the orders
- no front line in orders (that I got for frame 2)
- again MAG33 switched for balancing
[/B]
These are just admin issues they are just issues with individuals and the way they do things, it doesnt reflect on this particular SSO does it?
Originally posted by lucull
After 20min of event time, many people were flying in the MA and discussing how much they "enjoyed" this event.
[/B]
You see you are saying that this SSO was no fun but you dont substantiate your argument.
stuff like;
Originally posted by lucull
Dear CM team,
please, you said you want to take care about SSO and bring it back to old strenght and player numbers, so that we all could have more fun (again). You didn't show that in the last series, but I hope you'll do in the next.
Regards
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only serves to aggreive.
May I also point out that this;
Originally posted by lucull
I disagree. Frankly, your attitude is one of the problems SSO has.
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is way out of line. Flossy has shown nothing but the mark of the lady she is. She gives you respect by explaining in a nice fair manner, her opinions.
Lucull, 308Sqn is a very important part of not just SSO but also special events in general. That is the way I'd like to see it continue. May I now suggest that we all agree to differ and make a committment that we will all do our best to work together to get SSOs back to where they belong? I certainly dont want you see you or ramzey leave. Fer God sake how else am I gonna get me some handy kills:D
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Now, I don't know if you don't want to or you can't argue with me about my points I brought up. I think, I have some valuable points. Of course, it's my opinion, otherwise I wouldn't bring them up.
How many times have I said now, that I don't think that the nonexistence of such a webpage is a big problem in SSO???
Didn't I also say repeatingly, that all I would appreciate is something like this:
Allied FRAME CiC:
Warloc, 880th
Note: Please confirm that you are able, or one in your squad is able to be the CiC for this frame. Warloc your opponet will be Smuz/APdrone of AirMageddon.
ALLIED SQUADS
04-06 = 308 (Polish) Squadron (City of Cracow) (ramzey@raf303.org, lucull@raf303.org)
07-10 = 332nd Viking Squadron (GA@332viking.no, Easykill@332viking.no)
07-10 = 880 Squadron Fleet Air Arm (glenbold@telus.net, tfumia1@rochester.rr.com)
07-10 = 101"RED" Sqn, ISRAEL (viff@101squadron.com, joffefam@barak-online.net)
04-06 = skull12 20th military CO (CO skull12 swa2467@hotmail.com / renoairvirtual@yahoo.com ,
panzer66 bigevil_mohaa@yahoo.com)
28-42 Range of pilot turnout
Ghostdancer could do it and I think Grayarea could use this format, too. That's nearly half of what I complain together with the next point.
And you tell, that is no valuable point?
Low furball after 5min in squad ops and not likeing this what I call "MA style" and being vulched otr after a delay of 25min is no valuable point?
Disliking squads switching sides for number balancing is not a valuable point?
(it's a way to balance, but I explained why I think another way would be better IMO)
And the CiC job being assigned to a squad which is not participating, which almost leaded to cancel this SSO frame, if Viff wouldn't have take the job in the last minute, is not a valuable point?
Come on. Are you such an ignorant or am I totally wrong and need some help?
Well, you don't like to tell me, maybe someone else? ;)
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Posted at same time like you. :D
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Mostly I complain about admin issues and those are in admin's hand and easy to change and just to make that clear again, that is my opinion!
I didn't attack flossy at all, therefor it's not out of hand. You see, more than half of what I didn't like was IMO caused by setup and not enough care on CM side.
That's of course my personnal opinion and that's why I reminded the CM team of their own words, because my points being solved is more work for the admin CM.
Close targets, with 10k alt restriction and fast planes leads to low alt fights/furball in 5min as we have seen.
Don't get me wrong, I also like to furball and you can have some pretty good fights like that, but IMO it shouldn't be like this in the SEA and it's of course up to the admin CM to prevend or goal for this.
Of course you are right, that coming back late form the MA caused the vulch party for some people, but should "only" 5min cause this. I say no.
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Lucull,
I think there's something you need to understand: CMs certainly do not dislike discussing events, we encourage it. However, since we're all unpaid volunteers we fail to see why any of us should have to put up with disrespectful and insulting players such as yourself.
I used to think it was all down to a language barrier but after comments like:
"Come on. Are you such an ignorant or am I totally wrong and need some help?"
&
"Frankly, your attitude is one of the problems SSO has."
Well, frankly, if you think for a second that telling the head CM that she has an attitude problem isn't disrespectful then you're not only whiner but you're also an idiot. No, it's you that has the attitude problem pal.
We also don't have the "shut up whiners, feel free to leave" attitude you think we do. Next time you want to discuss something with your boss try insulting him first and then see how open he is to your suggestions.
Or is it merely that you just don't realise quite how insulting some of your posts can be?
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Let me say that last thing:
I care a lot about SSO because I love historical based events. That's why I spend my time on thinking about what went wrong and how it could be done better. As you see, I stand for my points on this BB. If this is not appreciated and more it's forbidden, I will leave at the moment it is written. ;)
This has nothing to do with having everything in an event like I want it to be, but the ignorance it would represent, but
I don't think this will happen.
As you can see in my post, I treat my "opponents" with respect and always try to keep it on a constructive level and I demand the same from every who wants to discuss with me.
It's this "treat others like you want to be treated" thingie.
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Originally posted by lucull
"treat others like you want to be treated"
Ha!
Ok this is good. Flossy wakes up on her 50th birthday to find a German fella telling her she has an attitude problem.
When's your birthday Lucull?
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Originally posted by Swoop
Lucull,
I think there's something you need to understand: CMs certainly do not dislike discussing events, we encourage it. However, since we're all unpaid volunteers we fail to see why any of us should have to put up with disrespectful and insulting players such as yourself.
I count 6 CMs posting at least one time in this thread and of course you are unpaid volunteers who have to deal with paying players. Sure I don't pay my money for the events, but your work is honoured by HTC with a free account, to work for the players.
I'm not disrecptful of you wok and spending your freetime for this game and others players. Also, it's not my goal to insult anybody here. I think I show that the way non-personal way and never using bad language or personal attacks. If flossy feels insulted by my words, I'm sorry and I can tell her that it was not wanted. I think I explained why I said my words, but I can do that again, if needed. Please email me flossy if so.
I used to think it was all down to a language barrier but after comments like:
"Come on. Are you such an ignorant or am I totally wrong and need some help?"
I'm not native english speaker, but people that reject discussing someone's points, because they think they have no value, are ignorant. He did it, but unfortunatly I didn't see his post before my one. That means Gremlin is not an ignorant. ;)
"Frankly, your attitude is one of the problems SSO has."
Well, frankly, if you think for a second that telling the head CM that she has an attitude problem isn't disrespectful ...
My statement is abov already.
...then you're not only whiner but you're also an idiot.
No, it's you that has the attitude problem pal.
I never called someone on a BB like this and a CM should ever do that for granted. So, I have a attitude problem?
We also don't have the "shut up whiners, feel free to leave" attitude you think we do.
Isn't sling part of the CM team? Well, I don't think the "team" has that attitude. I don't like just generalizations.
Or is it merely that you just don't realise quite how insulting some of your posts can be?
That could be. Could it be that you are a bit sensitive about complaing players on the other hand?
Happy birthday Flossy. You have my best wishes for the next 50 years!
(http://www.flos.clara.net/storage/cheerleader.gif)
When's your birthday Lucull?
You mean the value of someones post will be from now on judged by the posters age?
If I'm hundred, I'm "twice as good" as one with 50? <- ironic
I don't discuss on your level swoop, sorry.
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Hopefully this thread will be locked in the next few minutes.
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Originally posted by lucull
That means Gremlin is not an ignorant. ;)
Good. I'm glad about that, cos being called ignorant is quite an insult in English and Gremlin's a mate of mine.
Originally posted by lucull
Could it be that you are a bit sensitive about complaing players on the other hand?
If that's bait then it's very stinky. As everyone knows, I'm the most insensitive bastard around.
Originally posted by lucull
You mean the value of someones post will be from now on judged by the posters age?
If I'm hundred, I'm "twice as good" as one with 50? <- ironic
No, I mean if you want to make statements like 'treat others like you want to be treated' then on your next birthday I'm going to make a special point of telling you that you have an attitude problem.
Since you use [sarcasm] in your posts I assumed that you could recognise it when you saw it. Apparently I was mistaken. My apologies, I'll try to be clearer in future.
Originally posted by lucull
I don't discuss on your level swoop, sorry.
And therein lies the problem.
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wow this thread is getting out of hand :(
First i would like to say what a great job Flossy and the CM team does to orgainise and take time from there own life to do what they do, they dont have to do this and the squad op would not be what it is without them :aok
I do think there is room for improvement as in more squads worked together, the first frame of the V1 hunters i took CO for allieds and the WOD, the Firebirds and 880 sqd had to take out a field, they worked together brilliantly, was a bit of a suicide mission but they were comunicating and working together as a team while reinacting a historical event which is what i think squad ops is all about.(not saying we dont work together just saying we could do a little more ;))
For the alt restrictions, i can see both points of view:
i can see y ppl dont like it as it can be frustrating in some planes and when trying to fight
But i can also see why it is in place as if it wasnt we would have extemely high planes. (There is also the historical factor but we wont go into that coz that just wont go anywhere good :rolleyes: )
Maybe we could resolve this by doing something of a mixture, maybe what we could do is set the wind to just about flyable wind, so it unstable but if u want to do a loop or something u can with out being blow into another sector ;), maybe have the alt limiter at 12k, make the light winds at 12-15k then 15k above make this very bad, not sure if u can do this but it is just an idea. ;)
Well thats my view point, not going to blame ppl or start an arguement, just giving some ideas and viewpoints ;)
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lucull, you are way over the line. It is one thing to have a constructive discussion, but many of your remarks are personal in nature and will not be tolerated.
If you cannot discuss percieved issues/problems without tossing in personal commentary, which adds nothing to the discussion, then you should back away from the bulletin board altogether.
This goes for anyone.
The CM team gives their free time to support the community and we at HTC will not tolerate them being abused to any degree.