Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RAM on October 30, 2000, 05:53:00 AM

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: RAM on October 30, 2000, 05:53:00 AM

Just went offline for a second, on the runway, engine stopped, no brakes, started to fire all weapons of a 190A8.

The plane remained still, no movement at all

I tried it with a F4U1C.

Same.

Where is the gun recoil?...maybe went with his friend the torque to have a couple of cold beers...

And never came back (none of them two  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) )

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-30-2000).]

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: CavemanJ on October 30, 2000, 06:01:00 AM

the parking brakes are engaged with the engine off.
Someone posted about this awhile back
Start the engine, nudge the throttle just enough to start moving, then lay down on the trigger and close the throttle.  I believe that's how they got it to work.

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: RAM on October 30, 2000, 06:05:00 AM

Good answer.

but...


MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECC CCCCCC!!!!!!!!!!

wrong. Tried it after rolling some time and then stopped engine

Chog and Dhog, and 190A5 have no recoil at all...dunno the rest, only tested this three...


As I said, the Torque and the Recoil are having good times away from AH  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: flakbait on October 30, 2000, 10:21:00 AM

I completely agree RAM. Recoil is there, but it just shakes the plane around a little. Torque is nearly non-existant, proof of which can be seen in either Corair on takeoff. I know HiTech used the right calculation to figure recoil, so something must be wrong with the software. Could be a glitch in the builder, like last time when something went screwey. Hopefully Pyro, or HiTech, will spot the problem and fix it. Whatever it may be.



------------------
Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Rocket on October 30, 2000, 11:22:00 AM

In the training arena the other night I had a new pilot that had guns damaged on his plane. He said he noticed a considerable yaw to his plane whenever he fired the guns.  He thought that was just awesome to see the plane yaw just becuase you had less guns on one side than on the other.

S!
Rocket

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Fishu on October 30, 2000, 11:35:00 AM

Theres definetly some recoil on the gun..
in Zeke this is seen very easily and in tiffie with couple broken guns in another side.
If you start engine and shoot, then your plane actually reverses because of the recoil.. (and plane goes forward first.. and then it reverses for a long time after shots fired)
Try zeke, and shoot its guns when in the air, you'll see nose shake left right left right with cannons.

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Rocket on October 30, 2000, 11:50:00 AM

Also goto the TA where you have large amounts of ammo. Set your MAN and RPM to just barely keep you level in flight.  Pull and hold the trigger.  See how long it takes you to lose altitude or stall  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

S!
Rocket

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Dinger on October 30, 2000, 11:54:00 AM

I just tested it RAM, even on the Hawg-C, and it works.

Here's the test:
A. Get a C-Hawg, load 25% fuel
B. Go OTR, and start engine
C. Slowly open the throttle until the plane starts to move forward
D. Confirm that the throttle setting gives you a very slow sustained forward ground speed
E. Open fire.
You don't need to close the throttle.  If you keep it in the "Crawl" position, you can open fire, put it in reverse, then stop firing and watch it roll forward again.


The plane stops and rolls backwards.
If you want a tape of this let me know.

The "Parking Brake" phenomenon is whenever the plane is stopped, not the engine.  This is to allow you to stop the craft on a slope.  Otherwise, you'd never be able to stop long enough to exit.


[This message has been edited by Dinger (edited 10-30-2000).]

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: funked on October 30, 2000, 01:08:00 PM

Recoil is there in flight, and the level of force is correct.  I did some calculations and simulations of my own to check it a few months ago.  Came out within 10% or so of what I expected.
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/004801.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/004801.html)
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/002844.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/002844.html)

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Toad on October 30, 2000, 01:16:00 PM

Funked,

Please stop destroying unfounded prejudice with fact. It's ruining many rant threads.

Thanks for your prompt attention to this matter.

 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: qts on October 30, 2000, 01:48:00 PM

Take a Spit IX up in offline mode, and fire both cannon and guns at a drone. Notice how you have to keep your bead.

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Regurge on October 30, 2000, 02:06:00 PM

Take any plane and let it stablize in auto-climb.

fire the guns and watch your climb rate go down the toilet.

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Jigster on October 30, 2000, 03:09:00 PM

Not to mention, on most planes, the nose pitchs down big time with long bursts.

It's one of the many factors that has porked my gunnery with the new FM's  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

- Jig

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: RAM on October 30, 2000, 03:30:00 PM

 

Quote

Originally posted by Dinger:
The "Parking Brake" phenomenon is whenever the plane is stopped, not the engine.  This is to allow you to stop the craft on a slope.  Otherwise, you'd never be able to stop long enough to exit.

Ok  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) used to test it some months ago, and was surprised to see no effect at all  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

So, recoil is there  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Still I'm wonderin where did the torque went  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: SOB on October 30, 2000, 04:13:00 PM

Last I saw him, he was flyin' for Bish   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: RAM on October 30, 2000, 04:16:00 PM

THE Torque!

not torque!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

(good one lol  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Pongo on October 30, 2000, 05:56:00 PM

Most of the time you dont notice it. But sometimes with nose high and just about stalling you can really see the effect of a long burst.

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: -towd_ on October 30, 2000, 06:59:00 PM

i have a reference to the c hog in a book where the main point the guy mentioned about the plane was its incredible effect on the plane . i.e. it would loose air speed in a dive even !! now im not a engineer but the c hog recoil is almost unnoticable . now funk tested it and he thinks it was right. ( no math shown id like to see it)


so in my lay mans oppinion the hog c's  recoil from 4 fast firing 20 mm cannon is almost nonconcequentual but pilots notes point it out as excessive ( in the real world )    

so i think its probly modeled wrong!!!
sheesh its simple :but ill get abuse for saying so

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: wulf_pilot on October 31, 2000, 08:32:00 PM

Torque is there.
since im in aviation class and we did a whole chapter on just torque i think i know what im talking about
any other REAL pilots here.
massive torque occurs at high angles of attack, high rpm, and low airspeed.
its there.
also i dont know if they model it but wingtip vortices are created at high angles of attack and low speed ie-taking off.  Try taking off in a spit or 109 rihght behind a b-17 and you'll get tossed, this is in real life i dont know about in game.

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Midnight on October 31, 2000, 09:56:00 PM

I doubt that the effects of other planes on the slipstream are modeled at all. If it were, you would see at lot more spins as slow speed fighters were flying through all the prop wash in a big furball.

I was lucky to fly a few dog-fights at Air Combat USA and almost sh*t  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif) the first time I went through the other plane's prop wash. My plane just departed into a hard side slip and started to torque over. Fortunately there was enough airspeed to carry through to clean air before it got any worse.

Midnight

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Jigster on October 31, 2000, 10:36:00 PM

Bah.

I taxied a 172 behind a B-17 at Scholes once (not the first time either).

Now DATS prop wash. Swore the plane was gonna flip over when he throttle up to move to the active.


Salute to those brave souls who taxi light planes behind large commuters!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

- Jig

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Wardog on October 31, 2000, 10:39:00 PM

Yup..

recoil has been tuned down,i used to be able to use guns on p51 to back my ride up to the Hot Rearm when i over shot it by a bit. Using guns for reverse on planes used to work  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)


Dog out........

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Midnight on November 01, 2000, 02:09:00 AM

 

Quote

Originally posted by Wardog:
Yup..

recoil has been tuned down,i used to be able to use guns on p51 to back my ride up to the Hot Rearm

You still can, I just did that Offline tonight after reading this. I throttled back after getting a forward roll, fired the guns, and back I went  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

------------------
"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"

Midnight

Title: Where is the gun recoil?
Post by: Fishu on November 01, 2000, 05:59:00 PM

 

Quote

Originally posted by -towd_:
i have a reference to the c hog in a book where the main point the guy mentioned about the plane was its incredible effect on the plane . i.e. it would loose air speed in a dive even !! now im not a engineer but the c hog recoil is almost unnoticable . now funk tested it and he thinks it was right. ( no math shown id like to see it)


so in my lay mans oppinion the hog c's  recoil from 4 fast firing 20 mm cannon is almost nonconcequentual but pilots notes point it out as excessive ( in the real world )    

so i think its probly modeled wrong!!!
sheesh its simple :but ill get abuse for saying so

Now that would do good for those who blazes 200 rounds with one trigger pull  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)