Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: lazs2 on October 21, 2003, 10:14:07 AM
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Well.. after all the BB "discussions" about hanguns in the good ol USA...
beetle and "tomato" showed up at my hovel yesterday and wanted to go shooting.
So what kinda guns would you bring? I knew I could go out to work and shoot into some 14' berms that were on three sides.. I wanted variety and interesting guns but I was working with people who had limited (read none) experiance with firearms and no understanding about how handguns worked.
Luckily I had two pairs of ear muffs with electronics so that they could hear me.
What to shoot? well... my selection.... an EAA witness 45 with the .22 conversion installed (this becomes in effect, a full size and weight double action semi auto shooting a very mild round)... Next, The Kimber eclipse custom 1911 clone in 45 acp. And last... for sheer outlandishness.... the Dan Wesson in 44 mag with full underlug on an 8" barrel.
The 22 was a huge hit. I would say that they both looked a little relieved after firing it with it's mild pellet gun like recoil. It is allso extremely accurate and good for first timers confidence.
The 45... Like all 1911's it twisted in his hand and caused him the most problems. Recoil disengages new shooters brains.. it is common. We were careful tho and they bothj followed instructions well.... no trajedies were recorded.
The 44.... This is a huge gun at 64 ounces. The method to my madness was that with that much weight the recoil of the 44 magt round is "moderated".... even so... bettle claimed he felt the recoil in his jaw even. The gun would lift clear out of his off hand every round and he would rock back about a half a step. some discomfort of the shooting hand was noted...
Ok... so.. basic saftey out of the way... let em have at it. choose weapon load and fire. beetle was partial to the 22 ( a very nice gun IMO) and the Kimber (also very nice) he loaded his own magazines and blasted away.... confidence growing....
side effects.... I had warned tomato that after the shooting session...bettle would not be the cold englishman she knew... plus, as any handgunner knows, simply firing the 44 mag increases male length at least 4 inches.. I am sure that they stopped at a motel long before their intended stop that day.
Unfortunately... as I told beetle and tomato... the effects of shooting are short lived and without further shooting he will revert to.... well.... british.. within a month. The self confident swagger will be gone ...
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
So what kinda guns would you bring?
I wouldn't. I'd bring a couple of spear-wielding Amazon warriors.
(http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20031019/i/r1127300671.jpg)
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LOL! Dammit Lazs, I've been using your quotes for weeks now! Funny chit!
WTG Beetle, Tomato!
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no... see gofaster... this was all done outdoors.. real people were involved. While it was exciteing... u probly wouldn't like it since you wouldn't have a "free hand"... both were needed to shoot.
Oh, rip... did I tell ya that one of my guns made beetle bleed? he was pretty brave tho... said it was only a flesh wound. He was really macho-ing up there towards the end... even started to lose his accent... well... it was sounding less effeminate towards the end at least.
lazs
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Becoming more manly is something that happens when you shoot government models by necesity. Your wrist has to firm up to handle the recoil.
;)
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Did Beetle look at all like Dirty Harry when he was shooting the 44 mag? :)
Sounds they had fun.
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A non-mean-spirited firearms instructor would have instructed his student to grip the pistol very firmly and make sure it was snug against the webbing between his thumb and forefinger, thus preventing the described injuries. Clearly you wanted to see Beet1e bleed. I suppose he deserves it for associating with a cruel fellow like yourself.
Hooligan
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Originally posted by Hooligan
A non-mean-spirited firearms instructor would have instructed his student to grip the pistol very firmly and make sure it was snug against the webbing between his thumb and forefinger, thus preventing the described injuries. Clearly you wanted to see Beet1e bleed. I suppose he deserves it for associating with a cruel fellow like yourself.
Hooligan
LOL! :lol
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"firm grip" and beetle are not compatible.
lazs
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Oh, rip... did I tell ya that one of my guns made beetle bleed? he was pretty brave tho... said it was only a flesh wound. He was really macho-ing up there towards the end... even started to lose his accent... well... it was sounding less effeminate towards the end at least.
it's good for him, that way he can have a story when he talks about it. otherwise it'd just be "I shot guns". my first time with anything bigger than a .22 (my fathers .41 mag, 6 yrs old) the recoil brought it up and hit me dead center on the forehead, leaving a very stupid looking forward sight imprint for me to explain at school for the next week or so.
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LOL
Great post, Lazs
No rifles? Just a handgun guy?
Of all the guns Ive had, my favorite sill has to be my 10/22 Ruger...light, fun to fire and straight-on accurate. AR-15 comes in a close 2nd
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Ah, Beatle fell victim to the dreaded 1911 'hammer pinch' I presume?
Sounds like you guys had a blast (no pun intended). :D
So Beatle - give us your first hand (no pun intended, again) account of the festivities?
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beetle won't be back until Sunday so we can make fun of him at our leisure.
Ididn't let anyone get bit by slides. I think he cut it on the slide serations trying to chamber a round.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
beetle won't be back until Sunday so we can make fun of him at our leisure.
Ididn't let anyone get bit by slides. I think he cut it on the slide serations trying to chamber a round.
lazs
Soft hands...typical Pommie.
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Originally posted by lazs2
...as any handgunner knows, simply firing the 44 mag increases male length at least 4 inches.. I am sure that they stopped at a motel long before their intended stop that day.
Unfortunately... as I told beetle and tomato... the effects of shooting are short lived and without further shooting he will revert to.... well.... british.. within a month. The self confident swagger will be gone ...
lazs
:D
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The one and only time I fired one of those "girly" .38's, think it was a Lorcen, The slide closed on the skin between my thumb and forefinger. It was stuck there and it hurt BAD. I was sitting there shaking my hand and the gun wouldn't fall! I had to pull the slide back to get my hand free.
Guns are bad!
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My dad's 1911, get the web of my hand, but it does not bother me to bad.
It has Smith&Wesson ajustable sites on it, and the are sqaure and sharp, I racking the slide once after cleaning it and it slipped and the rear site cut me really bad...
Learned my lesson on that one.
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bett1e shooting those EVIL firearms?
What the hell?!
Did you turn him pro gun for at least a minute? If he had a good time, you did.
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Originally posted by Animal
bett1e shooting those EVIL firearms?
What the hell?!
Did you turn him pro gun for at least a minute? If he had a good time, you did.
You should see him salivating when he saw Lazs' guns
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Sounds like fun :)
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Lasz, if you can get beetle to attend one of the cowboy action shooting events dressed in chaps, six-gun, oil-skin drover coat, and sombrero he might, just might, become an expatriate of the British Commonwealth.
Regards, Shuckins
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Lasz, if you can get beetle to attend one of the cowboy action shooting events dressed in chaps, six-gun, oil-skin drover coat, and sombrero he might, just might, become an expatriate of the British Commonwealth.
Regards, Shuckins
Talking about dressing as a cowboy...
Hey Lazs tell us the midnight pee story :rofl
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I hope someone had the forethought to take a camera along...
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Originally posted by Udie
The one and only time I fired one of those "girly" .38's, think it was a Lorcen, The slide closed on the skin between my thumb and forefinger. It was stuck there and it hurt BAD. I was sitting there shaking my hand and the gun wouldn't fall! I had to pull the slide back to get my hand free.
Guns are bad!
OMG, that reminds me of the time I offered to clean my friend's Ruger auto 9mm and he left it with me. Well, it was late at night, and since I live alone, I was wearing only underwear about the house. I also didn't know the first thing about how to break down a Ruger, and ended up with my left index finger stuck in the closed bolt. I couldn't pull the slide back with my right hand, and there I was standing there in my living room, wearing only underwear, with a Ruger 9mm dangling from my left index finger.
It started to hurt after a while, and the thought crossed my mind about running next door to my neighbor's house for help. Then again I thought...I'd rather lose my finger than show up at my neighbor's house at 10:30 P.M. in my underwear with a pistol stuck on my finger.
So I resolved to yank my finger out of that mess, halfway expecting my finger tip to be mutilated by doing so. Out it came with no damage. It was instant relief from what was starting to become a real emergency. :D
Les
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mietla.. the two articles of clothing rule does not apply in cowboy action shooting... all participants are fully dressed.
animal... yep.. for the time that he was shooting he was very much "pro gun"... It was difficult to get him to stop. He was loading his own magazines and if the mag held 8... he was gonna get 8 in it damnit!
his girlfriend took pictures and he said he would post em.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
beetle won't be back until Sunday so we can make fun of him at our leisure.
Ididn't let anyone get bit by slides. I think he cut it on the slide serations trying to chamber a round.
lazs
We've just overnighted in Santa Barbara, and are on our way to visit CPP. I couldn't stand the suspense, and wanted to check what's been said on the BBS, so here we are at Kinko's on S. Hope St. It's been worth the $12/hour so far. :D
I met Lazs for the first time at the con. My impression of him as a gruff, grumpy old fart was only partially correct. He's neither gruff nor grumpy!
Yes, we went to Lazs's hovel as invited. I kept looking out the window thinking that Lazs was shouting to someone across the street. Turns out he was "talking" to me at a range of 6 feet - lol! His ears are a bit porked after all those years of shooting and biking, and he doesn't realise how loudly he's booming away...
So then we went out to Lazs's place of work. I always wondered what he did for a living, and when I found out what that involves, well, let's just say the cap fits! Muhahahaha :D:D
Like Lazs says, we had three guns. I liked his .22 "staple gun" - dubbed as such for the p-chff - p-chff sounds it made as bullet was fired, and met target some 15 yards away. I thought it was more like 25 yards, but Lazs has probably measured it. It was the easiest of the three guns to aim and shoot. I was able to load the magazines and then load the mag into the gun. I'm not much good with shapes, and at one time I was about to insert the mag backwards. Lazs said "Other way - we kinda want the bullets to go forward" - LOL!
Next up was the .44 magnum. Now I knew there was going to be a hell of a recoil, but as lazs says, it knocked me backwards. I can see why lazs stands with one foot in front of the other to fire, and I adopted that stance. My verbal response to firing that first round is unprintable on this board! But I fired off all 6 and was hitting the target - a "no parking" sign on a bank of earth.
Last was the .45 semi auto. I kind of relaxed after the .44, but the recoil effect seemed as bad. It twisted more than knocking me backwards. Lazs was saying that the .44 mag might have done that but for the weight of the gun and the length of the barrel.
The wall-o-text version will have to wait till Sunday - with pictures.
Yep, I can see how Lazs gets his leathery looks - all that time spent in the sun when he should be working. He really needs to use sun screen, and drink more fluids. Too late now. :lol
My finger injury resulted from pulling back the slider on the .45 sa. Lazs seemed kind of surprised that my blood was indeed red. I think he was about to faint at the sight of it...
Back at Lazs's hovel, we sat and listened while Lazs boomed at us for the next few hours. Hehe, I got a few words in. Talked about British agriculture, and suggested Lazs be a farmer in England. He'd like it. We have little space, and have had to move the fields close together...
Lazs's hovel is like a munitions factory. Bedroom 3 houses the ammo recycling plant.
Hehe, all kidding aside, Lazs was an excellent instructor, and forgiving of my newbie errors. I wanted Tomato to fire off the .44 mag - maybe next time.
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well gee.... if you don't shout then other people will get a chance to talk.
My house? well... it's a combination of "munitions factory" hot rod garage and 2 year old grand daughter playhouse. Somehow... all those elements seem to live together without too much problem.
I noticed tomato picked up an empty .45 case and put it in her pocket... Probly to show the beetle on those "special nights" to bring back memories.
lazs
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Oh.. the 2 pics I took came out really well... if someone wants to post em I'll send em.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Oh.. the 2 pics I took came out really well... if someone wants to post em I'll send em.
lazs
email them to me mietla@raf303.org
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Heh, sounds like you had a good time, beetle. I've had a bit of a fascination with foreigners' (brits especially) views on guns ever since I spent a summer in England studying your police forces. Can't wait for the long version. :)
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Sounds like you where treated to some good old American hospitality beetle.
Cheers:aok
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someone needs to get off their arse and post the Dirty Harry Beetle pics :)
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[Brit accent]Go ahead chap, make my jolly good day...[/Brit accent]
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Ok mietla... sent yu the beetle pic... I think is worthy of note that while beetle made fun of my masculine, rugged good looks.... I am much sleeker and have hair.... my hair is all one color also. that color is not grey.
lazs
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I thought that Brits are pretty fascist as far as gun control is concerned.
Beetle for all to see
(http://www.raf303.org/mietla/beetle.jpg)
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wtg Beetle (andTomato)
Did you have fun? I admire you for getting out there and firing those monsters, and for being photographed doing it, considering your gun posts.
I recomend getting some kind of hat next time though....... I'm a little thin up top too, though not as much, and sunburns suck.
Anyway, was happy to read about you getting to the mini con and meeting up with Laz to go shooting.
I wish I would have gotten off my arse to meet you guys at the mini con, as Im only a state away. Maybe next time.
Laz to you for hosting
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Jeez, Beetle, do you know how much lead a range like that contributes to the environment? Laz, I am ashamed of you for letting those little wrists attempt to hold such a big, dirty, evil gun.
Next thing you know, he will want to buy an SUV, hire a wetback and allow citizens the right to choose thier own healthcare.
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Big salute to Lazs and Beet1e and Tomato.
From that picture it looks like Beet1e is having a good time. He's holding right and has the proper stance, with one foot in front of the other. Lazs is a great instructor and knows what he's doing. Betcha he had to drag Beet1e away from the range, they were having so much fun.:D
Les
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We had a great time. Beetle was really getting into it.. loading his own magazines and all.. The hardest part was to keep both of em from grasping the gunhand wrist with the offhand.... I explained in gory detail what the Kimber slide would do to their tender flesh tho if they persisted.. Also... when teaching new people with semi autos... the instructor should stand behind and to the gun hand side so that they can push the gun hand/arm back in the downrange position when the shooter swings the loaded and cocked (and finger on the trigger weapon) toward everyone to explain... to explain whatever is on their mind... The recoil often disengages the brain the first few times. Happens a lot... even if the newbie has seen lots of gunplay on TV and is therefore highly skilled. Women usually take instruction better than men.
I have never taken anyone shooting and had them not enjoy it regardless of their previous position on guns.
I would say that most changed their opinions on strong gun control. I believe that it is the duty of every gun owner to join the NRA and to teach new people about the fun of our hobby.
lazs
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Good job!
I believe that it is the duty of every gun owner to join the NRA and to teach new people about the fun of our hobby.
lazs
mauser
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Is that a range or a construction site?
I would think a range would have a long, low table for holding the guns, ammo, hats, glasses, etc..
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It is a construction site... or more accurately... a range under construction. It will not ever look like a "normal" range in any case as it will be a police range.
lazs
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They won't even let them build earthen berm ranges around here anymore.
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dont get me started on the EPA.
lazs
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Hehe! I didn't know you took any pics, Lazs. I remember you were keeping a very watchful eye on the direction that gun was pointing.
This is not the promised wall-o-text. I've just stepped through my front door after an 11 hour flight home from LAX. I'm cream crackered, so will spend the next few hours getting a proper sleep in a proper bed. Yeah, the ".44 magnum virtual viagra" effect has not worn off yet, so toodle-pip! I'll post back in another 6 hours or so.
PS Nuke - tnx for the tips about hats etc. I had my Con2000 hat. Didn't know until the day that we would be at an outdoor "range". The expression "I couldn't shoot toejam" takes on a new meaning where Lazs took us. ;)
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I'm glad you and Tomato arrived home safely, Beatle- my wife and I enjoyed visiting with you, albeit briefly. That's my only complaint about the Mini-Con- there wasn't enough time to get to know everyone, and some people I didn't get to say hi to even.
, say Hi to Tomato for us.
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Airhead! Nice to met you and Stephanie.
Yes, a good visit with Lazs. I recommend it to anyone. Lazs lives just off the I-80 freeway, and his address is 1313 Mockingbird Lane, Dixon.
I think Lazs needs to understand the difference between "fearing guns", and "fearing the fact that anyone can just go out and buy the type of gun we fired on Monday". As far as I am aware, I do not "fear guns", or I would not have gone on Monday's jaunt with Lazs. But with weapons like these available to the US community as a whole, and not just Lazs, there will continue to be thousands of people in the US killed by guns every year.
I was able to put myself into the position of rank newbie, and examine some of the mistakes some people might make. Pulling the slider back on the semi auto guns was a little tricky; one time I hadn't pulled it all the way back, and we had a round jam in the chamber. An elderly person with arthritic hands might not have managed it at all - a consideration for those thinking of arming themselves against outside attack.
On a lighter note, here are a few of my pics.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/beet02.jpg)
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/beet01.jpg)
Lazs in his element with the .44 Magnum
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lazs01.jpg)
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lazs02.jpg)
Lazs with a semi auto (can't remember which one) NOT the .44 magnum, so "virtual viagra" effect does not apply.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lazs03.jpg)
Lazs gives instruction to Tomato. Hey, Lazs, I'm jealous. I never got this kind of TLC, and I never got to feel those manly arms around me, or those manly shovel like hands on my dainty sewing hands...
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lazs05.jpg)
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lazs06.jpg)
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lazs07.jpg)
End of the shoot. I wonder what Messrs Alamo Car Rental would have thought about one of their cars being used to transport guns, and being used as the base for our shoot...
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lazs08.jpg)
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Cool Pics.
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Just a comment. Don't know who that is in the pics, because this is the internet and all , but all of the shooters seem too front facing while firing the pistols.
I usually face more sideways, exposing less of my body (though nowadays it probably would be the same whether facing front of sideways...lol.) Plus, I learned to slightly bend my left elbow and hold the gun closer to my body.
Sideways, and with gun held close with bent left elbow supporting, and slightly bent right firing arm. My left elbow is about 3 inches from my stomach when I go pistol shooting.
Les
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my noodle is so big i wouldnt need to bring a gun to a fight. I just drop my pants and peace and good will toward man follows.
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Well, to be honest, I don't carry a gun any more. Don't feel like I need to. If I get an uneasy feeling, I have a permit to carry. But would need more practice, and I'm not law enforcement or anything, so I haven't had special training. I was taught this by friends of mine. They don't carry guns either. They're big and menacing looking enough that no one bothers them. And they don't go places where trouble might happen, like bars, etc...
I do go deer hunting on occasion. The main thing there.. is to be extremely careful with a rifle when in camp or climbing up into a stand.
You can't be too careful!!!
Another thing about carrying a gun is the "grappling factor" if you got in a fist fight with someone. The gun could be dislodged if it's not secured well or you fumble it, and land on the ground, where it would be of no use. It might only get in the way.
So you're right Frogman, if you were refering to my post. Didn't mean it to sound like I'm an expert with a handgun, though it may have sounded that way.
Carrying a gun, for most people, is not a good idea. It's a matter of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing for some. For others it may be slowed reflexes or poor vision. It is an awesome responsibility that must be taken seriously. Truely a long journey.
Les
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Originally posted by Leslie
My left elbow is about 3 inches from my stomach when I go pistol shooting.
That means nothing in America. :lol
Tomato had never been to the US before, and was amazed at the sheer size of so many of the people we ran into. We were careful to avoid carbo-hydrate at every opportunity - fresh fruit instead of french fries etc...
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Ummmmm actually fresh fruit is filled with carbohydrates...
Hooligan
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leslie... The accepted way now is to face forward... I sand one foot in front of the other in a modified weaver... even tho I never knew what it was called till some instructor told me... I told the limey's that they should stand however they felt comfortable.... stances are like eggs... one day they are good the next not... do what is comfortable.
I know that most of the pics son't show it but I really don't have an "American" gut.
My real address is 666 misogenist place.
frogm.. i don't think whipping out your little green froggy wee wee will make any princess kiss you.. Maybe daddy will buy you a woman?
beetle... I know you don't "fear" guns. What you do fear is me owning them. I would not make the cut for gun ownership according to most... I would be a criminal under any other countries laws... I don't fear any man owning a gun and that is the difference. I believe we are all born with the same rights... What you do with them and how we deal with people who abuse their rights is the real issue not whether to take away rights in the first place.
lazs
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Hiya Hooligan! We talked about you on Monday! All good. :)
Originally posted by Hooligan
Ummmmm actually fresh fruit is filled with carbohydrates...
It has some carbohydrate, that is true. But not as much as potatoes and pasta. I'm wearing the proof - a belt buckle that is 2 notches tighter than 4 months ago - and I lost all that in 2 weeks.
Lazs I don't fear you owning guns. You are very safety conscious and you also lock your guns away in that huge safe. That's good considering you told me someone tried to break into the house while you weren't there. But I saw quite a few wackos in San Francisco that week.
But Misogynist Place looked peaceful when I was there. I could live there without a gun, but I'd have a locksmith replace some of those locks...
...which reminds me, I must get a Chubb lock fitted to my front door at the new house. I've always had Chubb locks fitted to all the external doors of all properties that I've ever lived in - including the rented flat that I moved to when *she* booted me out... Never had so much as an attempted break in. My thinking is that a burglar would go to another house which didn't have a Chubb lock on the door. In any case, they usually go for side windows or the French window - got Chubb locks on all those as well. House was still here when I got home from CA yesterday.
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beetle... you say you don't fear me owning guns... I gather that means all the guns I own and the way I like to own them? What would your restrictions on gun ownership be? would you just visit each potential gun owner and make a decision or would there be some sort of legal guideline?
lazs
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Glad ya had fun Beetle...btw, most folks in this country are serious about gun ownership....they have grown up with guns and take the responsibility seriously, much as Lazs does.
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Originally posted by lazs2
beetle... you say you don't fear me owning guns... I gather that means all the guns I own and the way I like to own them? What would your restrictions on gun ownership be? would you just visit each potential gun owner and make a decision or would there be some sort of legal guideline?
lazs
Well Lazs, it's like this. We cannot have laws that operate on an individual basis. We have no (or few) guns here, so I'll pick another example. In the UK, we have a maximum speed limit of 70mph on all roads - lower speed limits on some roads. Now I'd be quite happy cruising at 120, just as I do in Germany. But the law says 70 - because there are dorks who are unsafe at 40, never mind 70, but a compromise was reached. I have to accept that 70 limit, but I'll do 90 if I think I can get away with it, and I have: Clean UK driving record. But at 120 I'd stick out like a sore thumb, and would lose my licence if caught. And with all the technology *they* have now, that's highly probable.
So I have to take my lumps like everyone else. I'd love to be able to drive my Golf along the M4 at 120. But it would be cheaper to get over to Germany to do that. The three-lane autobahnen radiating out of Munich are awesome.
If British society was pumped full of guns as it would be if you were to replace Tony Blair as PM (and Hell, I'd vote for you if the choice was between you and TB) our gun related homicide rate would rise from its current 50-100 up to 1500-3000. Of that I am in no doubt.
But in the US, the genie is out of the bottle, and you have your second amendment. The price that is paid for that is 300,000 gun related deaths in 25 years. And that's just homicides. I'm sure there have been thousands of accidental deaths too.
Rude - I accept what you say, but there is a large minority of folks who are much less careful and competent than Lazs. The US gun related homicide stats speak for themselves.
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????
I took my R6 along the entire length of the M4 (Kew roundabout to the M5/M4 junction at Bristol) at 115mph all the way one sunny sunday afternoon a few summers ago. Has the plod gotton serious about the M4 now?
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Originally posted by Swoop
I took my R6 along the entire length of the M4 (Kew roundabout to the M5/M4 junction at Bristol) at 115mph all the way one sunny sunday afternoon a few summers ago. Has the plod gotton serious about the M4 now?
Yes. There are numerous cameras in the five miles or so leading towards the elevated section at Brentford, going towards London. There's an isolated speed camera pointed down the eastbound side between Newbury and Reading, and probably others that I don't know about.
You were very lucky to get away with that 115. A friend of mine got done at that very same speed going anticlockwise on the M25 between Essex and Hertfordshire. He didn't say how he got caught. He got a £500 fine and a four week ban. I don't know how many points he got. I've never needed to fully understand the current points system - touch wood.
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Why would your vegetable be amazed at the sheer size here, she gets ample opportunity to view your gut, doesn't she?
;)
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Originally posted by Stringer
Why would your vegetable be amazed at the sheer size here, she gets ample opportunity to view your gut, doesn't she?
;)
ROFL! Erm, she's a fruit. :) And there were numerous other, larger bellies to look at, both at the con and in the days afterwards!
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"ROFL! Erm, she's a fruit. "
Tomato is GAY???? :eek:
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Originally posted by beet1e
That means nothing in America. :lol
Tomato had never been to the US before, and was amazed at the sheer size of so many of the people we ran into. We were careful to avoid carbo-hydrate at every opportunity - fresh fruit instead of french fries etc...
LOL Beetle, I'm trying to give you the benefit of a doubt, but I doubt you got your fat body just being in the US for a couple weeks. You aren't losing that belly and love-handles in no 2 weeks either.
I wasn't going to make a comment when I saw the pics, but then you had to go and mention fat Americans again :)
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Ok beetle... so what are yu saying? Are germans so much better drivers than everyone else or... is it something in the air in germany that makes people better drivers when they dross over the german border or.....
Is it just that they consider the right to drive fast a right and are willing to put up with a hundred thousand deaths every 25 years or so in order to remain free men and not sissisies like the rest of us?
but... you didn't answer my question... you feel it is ok for me to own and use firearms as I do.... What restrictions would you think would be reasonable... What restrictions would be "benificial" in your opinion?
lazs
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Very nice :) ------hope you realize not all us gun "nuts" are just that beetle
And Lazs germans are much better drivers than americans --they have to go through a grueling training course to get their drivers permits and the cost is pretty high $1200 to $1500 per YEAR.....They also drive by the rules a lot better than we do---that is why the autobahn is one of the safest roadways in the world.......
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Lazs,
Germany is the motoring capital of the world. The best cars in the world are built by the highest paid auto workers in the world, and AFAIC they earn every penny. They have the most sensible motorway speed limits - none. :)
I've never suggested a gun ban in the US. As you say, the genie is out of the bottle. Still, you guys have fewer deaths from heroin than from gunshot wounds, and you've banned heroin. And yet you claim to be the #1 drug culture in the world...
You could always do what they do in SE Asia - places like Singapore. Use a gun to commit a crime - any crime - = long jail sentence, even if the gun was not fired. Use a gun to commit a crime in which the gun is actually fired, and whether or not anyone is killed, you get a mandatory death sentence.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Use a gun to commit a crime in which the gun is actually fired, and whether or not anyone is killed, you get a mandatory death sentence.
You might remember or want to review Project Exile, Project Safe Neighborhoods, Project Felon, Operation Ceasefire and a few others. Lots of Federal and State laws and programs the require mandatory sentencing.
Suprise, suprise... gun crime drops dramatically in cities that have these programs.
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Originally posted by Toad
You might remember or want to review Project Exile, Project Safe Neighborhoods, Project Felon, Operation Ceasefire and a few others. Lots of Federal and State laws and programs the require mandatory sentencing.
Suprise, suprise... gun crime drops dramatically in cities that have these programs.
Do you have any URLs for me to check out?
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Project Exile has been adopted in some cities. It is the "three strikes you're out" law, where if you are convicted of a crime three times in court, you go to prison for life with no parole.
In Alabama, there is a minimum sentence of 5 years of any crime involving a handgun...no exceptions.
Les
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Long ago we "discussed" these in another gun thread.
However, type those titles into google and you'll get more than you wanted.
Example: http://www.house.gov/judiciary/mcco0406.htm
The success of Project Exile in Virginia has been truly remarkable. Prior to Project Exile’s implementation, Richmond, Virginia had one of the highest murder rates in the world and an exploding violent crime problem. Since 1997, when Project Exile was begun in Richmond homicides have dropped 46 percent (the lowest level since 1987), crimes involving guns have dropped by 65 percent, aggravated assaults have dropped by 39 percent; and the overall number of violent crimes have dropped by 35 percent.
I believe those stats are from '97 to '00.
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BTW, what a concept, eh?
Punish the criminals and leave the law-abiding folks alone.
Hmmmmm... too radical a concept I bet.
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Originally posted by Toad
BTW, what a concept, eh?
Punish the criminals and leave the law-abiding folks alone.
Hmmmmm... too radical a concept I bet.
SSSHHHHHHHHH damn dont let the liberals hear that
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I have only slight reservations about 'any gun crime" being punished severly.... say, if a guy owned some newly banned weapon and was caught with it.... say you broke some pre ban magazine ban or had a weapon that ended up being stolen decades before or failed to register a weapon or used one in defense even though you didn't have a permit to carry.... things like that.
In general tho.... I am in favor of hightened sentances for crimes where a gun was used to aid the crime.
lazs
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Hey Alan it was great to see you again and to meet Arlene. I wish I'd had more time to visit with you two but it was a bit hectic. I hope you guys had a good time here in the US of A. :)
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Hi Mike! We sure did have a great time. Arlene loved it and is still thanking me - quite handy in light of the effect that .44 magnum had on me. ;)
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Hehehe that reminds me of the wife of an old squaddie... We went to an airshow and she confided to her husband that the sound of jets (F-15 in full afterburner) caused her to become physically aroused. :D
Her handle was henceforth "Jetgirl".
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Lol Mike, Denise has the same reactions at airshows...however I think it's the hot pilots in tight jumpsuits that do it for her. :)
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that the sound of jets (F-15 in full afterburner) caused her to become physically aroused.
:)
Johnny Carson would say:
"I did not know that...."
(http://www.dagonbytes.com/film/fame/elvira/carson.jpg)