Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sorrow[S=A] on September 23, 2000, 01:54:00 AM
-
Well this is it.
HTC this mute effect you put in is like cracking a walnut with a sledgehammer and anvil.
I could see muting public channels if someone who doesn't stop swearing but this business about cutting a person off from private and squad channels is overboard. This game is EMOTIONAL. Creamo gets off my tallay and I am craning all over looking for him .. spotting just as he kills me. I go to private and type What a diddlying awesome bounce!. And I got muted for 10 minutes from my squadmates.
Frankly HTC your solution is way more overboard than the problem. And this isn't the first time the solution was over the top compared to the initial problem.
I think this has mad me mad enough to do something harsh. A countdown. You had a few GOOD ideas put up by others in these boards for the issue of cursing on public channels. If you don't nix this filter concept for one of them my account is cancelled by monday.
By all means other people mad at this filter post your opinion here and let HTC know how you feel about it.
-
fek me you ppl fly off the handle to quick. I'm sure the filter will be tweak until then save the roadkill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Yet another situation FUBAR
btw I already got rid of my acount that toejam realy pissed me off im still red in the face.
[This message has been edited by JoeMud (edited 09-23-2000).]
-
I'm sure it's just temporary until a better solution can be implemented. Perhaps until then the filter could just be for channel 1. (Like client selectible filters that work on your computer only.)
------------------
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
-
There's a mute thingie now? How does it work?
-
Joemud and Sorrow, get a grip. This filter was just put in, and like every other thing that is new to a game, it is bound to be tweaked and debugged. Just give it some fµ©k¡ng time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by joness (edited 09-23-2000).]
-
Frankly HTC your solution is way more overboard than the problem...
And not very characteristic...
Sheesh, Fatty leaves for Florida for 3 days and look what happens.
-
Hi Sorrow.... <S>
I've analyzed the threads so far and at this point, can only find less than half dozen people who feel the actual use of public profanity should be acceptable behavior in this online game on Channel 1 or 2.
The real issue seems to be about "filters" applied to private group channels (squads) and one to one personal communications.
I replied with my opinion and more thought in BotaBing's thread about filters.
Regards,
Badger
Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
-
Hi Badger
My problem here is NOT with the mute per se.
It's with the attitude behind it. The mute was implimented as a pure knee jerk reaction with no forewarning or rules given out beforehand. I rarely use public channels but as my squad knows (and other who have flown with me) I vent emotions when things happen in the game. By far and away there tend to be allot of cussin goin on when it's not something I liked
But HTC felt the need to put a 10 MINUTE MUTE on people who use 2 of these words on any chat buffer. Thats right- test the waters and get into a situation where you could be out of communication for 10 minutes.
This is overkill, it was a bad implimentation. Others on the UBB who had problems with it beforehand had much better solutions. We knew it was coming, it's no surprise to see some actions taken, but the actions they took are beyond belief.
And this is NOT the first time. Whether it's a B-17 killing hangers too fast getting a 3x damage increase and having it's down time cut to a marginal amount, having ppl question ease of ditching- and end up with an unditchable model for awhile etc etc HTC seems to attack solutions with a large dose of overkill.
This isn't an "off the cuff" decision. I truly am going to just pull the plug if HTC can't fix this. And I would do do quietly the next time they make a gameplay decision that is implimented this badly. Thats my right as a customer. And it would feel bad- AH was my first flight sim since way back in beta. I paid since day 1 and intended to due so indefinatly- I enjoy being in that 20% club that starts with an online company end never leaves. But HTC HAS to learn to implement these kind of things better. Or else they just hemmorage players like me to other places.
-
Perhaps its an opportunity to be more creative. For example.
torque has relations with a yak.
Or. calling some one, Sheep face, seems appropriate to this game.
-
buh buy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
udie
-
To those who are quitting over the profanity filter..... bye bye!
There was more than enough commenting on this subject in previous posts to indicate there was a problem. Multiple people complained and the problem didn't slow or diminish. It got worse. Voluntary self control was not being used. If you can't play without dumping obscenities on the test buffer, take a hike. This game is open to children. Get a grip.
Mav
-
Sorrow..
The solution is very simple, Dont use profanities and you wont get muted!!
Theres no need for swearing in this or any online sim.
If you want a swear fest, go to a Quake server.
I have kids that also fly, and they have a lot of fun,on top of that my Dad also uses my account during the Day. He is now 72 and grew up in Scotland during the war. He also has no interest in watching the crap coming across the text buffer.
Dog out...........
-
LOL,
I see the filter has already begun to show benefits. Players who are moronic enough to actually spend the time to -type- cuss words ingame are splitting. Works for me.
Ya vent by cussing -aloud-, not by typing! You know why folks do that, and it's not to vent. They have no decency or respect for the other players. It's selfish, grow up.
Or split. Either way, we're rid of them. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Cya up...Braz
-
If you can't express yourself without swearing, well that just shows what your made of.
-
And if you believe the word itself is insulting as opposed to the intention behind it.. then that shows what you are made of.
AKDejaVu
-
What joness, badger, maverick, wardog, brazos and saz said.
I have a right not to be bothered with profanities written by people show no respect for their fellow players. It is not I that should make the effort (of shutting down your lack of civillity by using squelch). It is your responsibility to act in a civilized manner in society, and if you're not willing then you don't belong in society.
The "right" of free speech comes with responsibilities, but your kind conveniently ignores it.
Don't let the door quick you on your way out.
Actually, I hope it does quick you, maybe that will knock some sense in you guys.
------------------
DrSoya
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
Part of the Northolt Wing (http://www.raf303.org/northolt) (First Polish Fighter Wing)
[This message has been edited by DrSoya (edited 09-23-2000).]
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
And if you believe the word itself is insulting as opposed to the intention behind it.. then that shows what you are made of.
Banning the word sends a message on what kind of behavior will not be tolerated. If you can't understand that, then that shows what you are made of.
------------------
DrSoya
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
Part of the Northolt Wing (http://www.raf303.org/northolt) (First Polish Fighter Wing)
-
Well said DrSoya, Mav. and the others in a similar vane. I played this game for only six weeks, but the swearing is definitely something which is not needed. Especially since kids play this.
If you're gonna swear, do it at your computer screen not through it.
We don't need the whining, for that matter, IMO. Any chance of filter to mute the whiners, HTC? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Oh, and by the way, IT'S ONLY A GAME. Been wanting to say that for a while. Feel better already...
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-23-2000).]
-
Originally posted by Torque:
fek me you ppl fly off the handle to quick. I'm sure the filter will be tweak until then save the roadkill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What Torque said....and to the people that are pissed 'cause they can't cuss on open channel anymore...grow the F*** up already!
Lars
-
Banning the word sends a message on what kind of behavior will not be tolerated. If you can't understand that, then that shows what you are made of.
So.. "Idiot", "Moron", "Retard".. these words have all been banned?
The most offensive things I have said on comms have not involved swear words at all. The most response I've ever received from somthing I said on the comms didn't involve any swear words.
How did cursing become the root of all evil?
I logged on one night when a 2-week trial guy was spamming the forum with curse words. I squelched him immediately and then had to listen to 20 different people respond to an obvious troll for reaction.
If you want to see maturity in the arena.. work on that image you see in the mirror.
People instigate because so many react. Police yourself. Behave the way you think others should behave. That is acceptable behavior. If someone is getting off on response to his/her bad behavior.. don't respond.
Now, we are going to be subject to people being more creative with curse words. Most of us are now going to learn to cuss in Spanish, Finish, Dutch or German. We are going to learn all about inuendo. We are going to learn all about something called a "snowball effect.
Thankyou to all those involved.
AKDejaVu
-
Fortunately for me sorrow S=A, I could CARE LESS about a profanity filter.
Fortunately for you, HT has already stated that he will enable cussing on squad channel (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Cheerios!
Yeager
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 09-23-2000).]
-
Fascinating. I personally find the moral grandstanding here far more offensive than most of the swearing. I'm pretty apathetic to the issue (I swear like a sailor, but temper it depending on the company I'm around for politeness sake), but the high-handed attitude of moral justification displayed by those posting on the board is nausiating.
HTC runs a business and has to be a little on the conservative side (though I do feel the 'squelch' command solved any issues I ran into). But though I find many of the statements made by people who frequent these boards absolutely appalling (regardless of the specific verbage), I don't generally feel that those people should be prohibited from being obnoxious. To each their own. The justification that societal standards are being broken is both frankly out of touch and rather dangerous when one considers the implications of that mindset.
So hey, if you want to jeer at people who don't like a particular censorship method because your particular morality condones censorship for an arbitrary 'Just Cause', knock yourself out. You aren't being censored. I personally believe however, that you are most definately talking out your ass.
Fortunately, the last thing I play these games for is the community. I want that, I go hang out at a pub. Speaking of which....
Thog, The Reprobate
-
Damn Thog.. well said!
AKDejaVu
-
Lemme buy that 1st beer Thog, good show.
-
What would be really funny is..
Dont filter the guy. Just only have his message appear to him. So he thinks he is bad mouthing but only he is seeing it. You could even have some kind of anoying bot that keept swearing back at him but only he would see it. That would be hilarios!
Think of the fun HT could have coming up with better bots!
-
I like that idea pongo (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
.
[This message has been edited by Robert (edited 09-25-2000).]
-
i have an idea. use to have something like this in the pool room long time ago.
let them use any word they want! but... if it is a word ppl dont want to hear, CHARGE them for it. say 50c to $1.00 every time it is used. pool the $ and give it to the guy with the highest kill streak for the tour OR divi it up between the top 10 pilots. that way they can say what ever they want but will think about others when they start having to pay them. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
RWY
P.S. i know this will probably not work just made me think about how we use to handle things like jumping the cue ball of the table or swearing out loud ...back then it was a $1 in the jug or the juke box. Make the 8 ball on the break and you get the jug full of $$$$$$$$$$. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Me not agree with Thog. Thog use stereotype. Bad Thog.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Sorry Thog, I just love your callsign.
Thog, you have the right to believe that we are just a bunch of Bible-thumping evangelists, who are afraid that society is being broken down by the evil of profanity.
But that doesn't hold any more water than us believing that all the guys using profanity are complete cretins, trying to ruin the world with their lack of verbal choices.
Oh btw, getting back to Sorrow's original post...Sorrow was the guy that told me to "go kick my snot-nosed little brat in the head", and to "blow him". Can't say I'm surprised to read his reaction to the filter.
-
Originally posted by banana:
Me not agree with Thog. Thog use stereotype. Bad Thog.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Sorry Thog, I just love your callsign.
Thog, you have the right to believe that we are just a bunch of Bible-thumping evangelists, who are afraid that society is being broken down by the evil of profanity.
But that doesn't hold any more water than us believing that all the guys using profanity are complete cretins, trying to ruin the world with their lack of verbal choices.
Oh btw, getting back to Sorrow's original post...Sorrow was the guy that told me to "go kick my snot-nosed little brat in the head", and to "blow him". Can't say I'm surprised to read his reaction to the filter.
You are limiting verbal choices yourselve...only the ones not right, on your own point of view. Not saying that I like swearing, but IMHO, It's even worse to have others deciding what is or not acceptable, and forcing anyone to behave like you think they would.
It is harder to understand when you could have client side filter, and you oppose so vehementely (spelling?). As I posted in another thread, can't see (as of yet) ANY serios reason not to have it on the client side. Anything monitored by the server, can be as well by the client. Only downside is that you would have to accept that not anyone is behaving (and talking) as you would like.
All censorship supporters say that dirty language is unacceptable by:
a) Unpoliteness
b) Harm produced to children
c) Lack of social abilities
d) Plain disgusting
or some combination of any of the latter.
Client side filter could bypass all of it. I'm not saying that excesses should be allowed, even less encouraged, but HTC has been masters in controlling this (sorry to say that, but only up to this point). Now I have the feeling that their focus is lost.
I have the school playground feeling. I have nothing to hide myself, I do not swear, but, until somebody enlighten me with some weighted reason why a censor is prefereable to self control (I'm meaning own client profanity -or whatever- filter) I will think that you are not Bible-thumping evangelists, but Samaritans who are keen to search for the straw in the other's eye, and your top priority is focused on not letting the others to do wrong (what you think it might be), instead of trying to do the proper thing yourself.
Cheers,
Pepino.
P.S.: Sorry for long post. My english is not good enough to put this in brief (prolly to put this, period).
-
#1 argument for server-side filter:
HTC doesn't want the behavior anywhere on their server. IF that should change, then client-side is an option.
-
#1 argument for server-side filter:
HTC doesn't want the behavior anywhere on their server. IF that should change, then client-side is an option.
Except, of course, on squad channel. I guess its changed.. eh keiren?
AKDejaVu
-
I was speaking in the hypothetical- as in, if activity is occuring that HTC doesn't want, it shouldn't happen anywhere. It is a response to someone who might say "I can't think of one reason to have a server-side filter".
My argument remains the same. I never once stated that client-side wasn't a possibility, though you seem to make it sound that way.
One thing I won't champion is the right for people to be vulgar on a privately owned server. Do you?
-
One thing I won't champion is the right for people to be vulgar on a privately owned server. Do you?
Wait.. is it being vulgar or cursing we are talking about? Is this BBS considered part of a privately owned server? If so, most people seem to think the AH arena is different than here. Of course, there is no charge for visiting this site. Though, I doubt people come here and see all this "high moral fiber" and decide wether or not to visit the game arena itself.
How about this:
If there is a means to filter out cursing for those that want it, I am all for it.
If it is something that can actually kick you out of the game if you say "ass" too much, I am not.
I've been on when people were cursing profusely. None of it was as offensive as the tones in most of these posts. Cursing is not the problem.
AKDejaVu
-
Kieren,
Maybe by your standards "HTC don't like" is a weighted reason. I can see that is the ultimate reason, but not a weighted one. Probably my English is not good enough so I can't make my point totally clear. With weighted I mean a reasonable one, and of course we can conclude with "is HTC choice", but, given the high level of customer attention that HTC provides, I think that particular one is not valid by HTC standards.
Cheers,
Pepino.
-
I haven't been muted yet, and HEY, Im still having fun!!!
I did type "woody" though. HeHe! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Ten years ago our old comp.system got some nasty habits:
Once my old boss almost throw whole pc out of window because after he did some mistakes when typing in some data the message appeared in the screen: IDIOT
I still believe our old mp-system was better than our new SAP R/3 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(at least it got inbuilt Yatzy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
-
AK-
Not trying to go 'round-and-'round with you... I have agreed with most of your points, and said so many times. I 100% agree it is the intent of the message that is important, not the verbage. Still (especially after Hitech's latest post) I believe HTC placed the filter on the client side because they wanted to diminish the inappropriate behavior on their service, not just protect a few people from some bad words. And as I stated earlier on the BBS, perhaps the words themselves shouldn't be the target, but it does seem the people most likely to be abusive also use the language.
I don't know how my postings on the topic can be so misunderstood.
-
Hey! it's you! wonderfull that you would pop up!
Yes I said exactly that. After chasing a lanc up to 34,000 feet and getting plastered trying to shoot him down- I called him on it and swore my head off. It was emotional- I am not terribly happy I said it..
THEN I got the moral high ground come running down after me like dogs. And yes I said exactly that: If your whoopee kid is reading it kick the snot brat in the head. AND I STAND BY IT. If your kid was reading that and you let him get them out of the room. I play a game with adults- not 10 year olds. If I blow up over something I could really care less about somebody whining that their kid can read a few nasty words.
-
Sorrow,
Sorry to here you think that way, this game is open to all not just you. I you can't behave like an adult then see ya later. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) I can understand you getting emotional after a hard fight, but insulting kids? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif) I have to agree with Kieren about the overflowing of bad attitudes in the game. I think from what I just read yours is up on the list. If you don’t like the mute then don’t swear, as a compliment or chastising simple. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
I Hate It When That Happens!
[This message has been edited by goat10 (edited 09-25-2000).]
-
banana; Actually, I never implied that the bible or a religious motive was involved. That's common, but the attitude is not unique to the religiously conservative, and I've stopped assuming that religion is either the deciding factor or even really relavent. I really couldn't care less what the motivation for global text (word or statement) blocking is, I just don't personally like the approach. I do think between squelch and the idea of a client-side block you'd be able to protect your son quite well. But I don't feel it's reasonable for you to attempt to muzzle me in public because you don't like what I have to say or how I say it. Pretty straightforward in theory, sometimes sticky in practice, but I feel that the theory is extremely important and needs to drive the practice. So say Thog, on of 6 billion trying to live his life as best he can. <G>
Sorrow... heh. We stand on the same side of the line on the censorship issue. However, just for the record; that last statement of yours demonstrated admirably what I meant when I said that some of the things said on this board appall me, regardless of specific verbage. On the otherhand as long as you don't actually touch his son, you can merrily espouse your feelings on good parentage and I will happily ignore you. No harm done. <g>
Thog
-
"I play a game with adults- not 10 year olds." - Sorrow
Says who?
-
Originally posted by Sorrow[S=A]:
Hey! it's you! wonderfull that you would pop up!
Yes I said exactly that. After chasing a lanc up to 34,000 feet and getting plastered trying to shoot him down- I called him on it and swore my head off. It was emotional- I am not terribly happy I said it..
THEN I got the moral high ground come running down after me like dogs. And yes I said exactly that: If your whoopee kid is reading it kick the snot brat in the head. AND I STAND BY IT. If your kid was reading that and you let him get them out of the room. I play a game with adults- not 10 year olds. If I blow up over something I could really care less about somebody whining that their kid can read a few nasty words.
Thank you sorrow for posting a WONDERFULL justification for the filter. I don't feel I should have to kick my kid out of the room because you wish to expose your anus / brain on the buffer. There is no reason why my kid should have to leave the room inn my house because you just have to use inapropriate language. If you want to play an adult game, act like one. The internet in general and AH in particular is open to kids and adults, even adults who act like kids.
Mav
-
The Arena is HTC's place of business. It's just like a restaurant or a night club or a country club. If you go to a place like that and start cursing out the other customers you will find yourself out on the sidewalk with a sore bellybutton PDQ.
Would you rather get that treatment or the relatively mild filtering that we have now?
-
Funked, please stop that. Crowding this thread with reason will get us nowhere.
<G>
-
When I go to a dance club and the music is too loud, I put in ear plugs. The better places provide them free. I don't ask them to turn the music down or change the channel.
C'mon guys... Majority rules at the expense of the minority is not a sound principle. It MUST happen in practice sometimes (I don't want a psychopath running aout loose either), but when other options exist, USE them.
Personally, I want to keep my guns. And many many people on this board would agree. And there is NO defense if I'm a nutcase with a gun, but I still don't want them taken away by somebody who justifies it by protecting their kids. The same arguement could be made for cars. You own one? Then your threaten people every single time you drive it. You need it? Try calculating the average cost of a car on a yearly basis per person vs. the cost of a truely effective public transport system.
The point is that most of these issues can be (and will be) argued from either side, but hopefully will not all boil down to a majority rules situation (if they do, things tend to get very ugly). So when and where you can, use other options. HT has another option that would do the job, so I simply think they should use it.
Thog