Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on October 22, 2003, 08:41:28 AM
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Pakistan, Saudi Arabia in secret nuke pact
By Arnaud de Borchgrave
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have concluded a secret agreement on "nuclear cooperation" that will provide the Saudis with nuclear-weapons technology in exchange for cheap oil, according to a ranking Pakistani insider.
The disclosure came at the end of a 26-hour state visit to Islamabad last weekend by Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdulaziz, Saudi Arabia's de facto ruler, who flew across the Arabian Sea with an entourage of 200, including Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al Faisal and several Cabinet ministers.
Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud, the pro-American defense minister who is next in line to the throne after the crown prince, was not part of the delegation.
"It will be vehemently denied by both countries," said the Pakistani source, whose information has proven reliable for more than a decade, "but future events will confirm that Pakistan has agreed to provide [Saudi Arabia] with the wherewithal for a nuclear deterrent."
As predicted, Saudi Arabia — which has faced strong international suspicion for years that it was seeking a nuclear capability through Pakistan — strongly denied the claim.
Prince Sultan was quoted in the Saudi newspaper Okaz yesterday saying that "no military agreements were concluded between the kingdom and Pakistan during [Prince Abdullah´s] visit to Islamabad."
Mohammad Sadiq, deputy chief of mission for Pakistan's embassy in Washington, also denied any nuclear deal was in the works. "That is totally incorrect," he said in a telephone interview. "We have a clear policy: We will not export our nuclear expertise."
But the CIA believes Pakistan already has shared its nuclear know-how, working with North Korea in exchange for missile technology.
A Pakistani C-130 was spotted by satellite loading North Korean missiles at Pyongyang airport last year. Pakistan, which is estimated to have between 35 and 60 nuclear weapons, said this was a straight purchase for cash and strongly denied a nuclear quid pro quo.
"Both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia," the Pakistani source said, "see a world that is moving from nonproliferation to proliferation of nuclear weapons."
The Saudi rulers, who are Sunni Muslims, are believed to have concluded that nothing will deter the Shi'ite Muslims who rule Iran from continuing their quest for a nuclear weapons capability.
Pakistan, meanwhile, is concerned about a recent arms agreement between India, its nuclear archrival, and Israel, a longtime nuclear power whose inventory is estimated at between 200 and 400 weapons.
To counter what Pakistani and Saudi leaders regard as multiple regional threats, the two countries have decided to quietly move ahead with an exchange of free or cheap Saudi oil for Pakistani nuclear know-how, the Pakistani source said.
Pakistanis have worked as contract pilots for the Royal Saudi Air Force for the past 30 years. Several hundred thousand Pakistani workers are employed by the Gulf states, both as skilled and unskilled workers, and their remittances are a hard currency boon for the Pakistani treasury.
Prince Abdullah reportedly sees Saudi oil reserves, the world's largest, as becoming increasingly vulnerable over the next 10 years.
By mutual agreement, U.S. forces withdrew from Saudi Arabia earlier this year to relocate across the border in the tiny oil sheikdom of Qatar.
Saudi officials also are still chafing over a closed meeting — later well publicized — of the U.S. Defense Policy Board in 2002, where an expert explained, with a 16-slide Powerpoint presentation, why and how the United States should seize and occupy oil fields in the country's Eastern Province.
Several incidents have raised questions over the extent of Saudi-Pakistani cooperation in defense matters.
A new policy paper by Simon Henderson, an analyst with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, noted that Prince Sultan visited Pakistan's highly restricted Kahuta uranium enrichment and missile assembly factory in 1999, a visit that prompted a formal diplomatic complaint from Washington.
And a son of Prince Abdullah attended Pakistan's test-firing last year of its Ghauri-class missile, which has a range of 950 miles and could be used to deliver a nuclear payload.
President Bush was reported to have confronted Pervez Musharraf over the Saudi nuclear issue during the Pakistani president's visit to Camp David this summer, and Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage raised the issue during a trip to Islamabad earlier this month, according to Mr. Henderson's paper.
"Apart from proliferation concerns, Washington likely harbors more general fears about what would happen if either of the regimes in Riyadh or Islamabad became radically Islamic," according to Mr. Henderson.
GlobalSecurity.org, a well-connected defense Internet site, found in a recent survey that Saudi Arabia has the infrastructure to exploit such nuclear exports very quickly.
"While there is no direct evidence that Saudi Arabia has chosen a nuclear option, the Saudis have in place a foundation for building a nuclear deterrent," according to the Web site.
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20031021-112804-8451r.htm
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Now would be a good time to consider taking action against Iran and possibly Saudi Arabia.
The pattern in Iran is the same as in N.Korea ..... deny, deny deny, nuclear programs are only for peacful use, then....SUPRISE! We have nukes! And now we are going to start a nuclear holocaust if you don't give us what we want.
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but mr cheny and mr bush say saudi arabia are our friends.
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Originally posted by Godzilla
Now would be a good time to consider taking action against Iran and possibly Saudi Arabia.
The pattern in Iran is the same as in N.Korea ..... deny, deny deny, nuclear programs are only for peacful use, then....SUPRISE! We have nukes! And now we are going to start a nuclear holocaust if you don't give us what we want.
Its too late. Within 20 years all 3rd world countries will have them. Then, when cities start expiring, we can blame the liberals once again since they always seem to think we should mind our own business and let others go on about theirs. :)
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Its too late. Within 20 years all 3rd world countries will have them. Then, when cities start expiring, we can blame the liberals once again since they always seem to think we should mind our own business and let others go on about theirs.
Yeah, I hear the Republican Congress voted to repeal the Laws of Physics, but Dashole stood in their way.
Charon
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Originally posted by GScholz
News flash.
Iran has agreed to suspend its disputed uranium enrichment programme. At talks with the foreign ministers of Germany, France and Britain on Tuesday, diplomatic sources said Iran would halt uranium enrichment and the reprocessing of nuclear fuel, as well as agreeing to sign the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Additional Protocol allowing tougher UN inspections of its nuclear sites. This follows a top-level visit last week by the UN watchdog, which had given Iran until late October to disclose the extent of its nuclear activities. German foreign minister Joschka Fischer said that the accord would "stabilise the region".
http://www.deutschewelle.de/english/0,3367,4789_W_1006177,00.html
Uh huh. Show me the money. (Hint, no ones contacted the UN or the US, its simply words)
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Originally posted by GScholz
News flash.
Iran has agreed to suspend its disputed uranium enrichment programme. At talks with the foreign ministers of Germany, France and Britain on Tuesday, diplomatic sources said Iran would halt uranium enrichment and the reprocessing of nuclear fuel, as well as agreeing to sign the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Additional Protocol allowing tougher UN inspections of its nuclear sites. This follows a top-level visit last week by the UN watchdog, which had given Iran until late October to disclose the extent of its nuclear activities. German foreign minister Joschka Fischer said that the accord would "stabilise the region".
http://www.deutschewelle.de/english/0,3367,4789_W_1006177,00.html
News Flash: N Korea agreed to stop it's nuclear programs too. News Flash: N Korea now has nuclear weapons.
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Originally posted by Godzilla
News Flash: N Korea agreed to stop it's nuclear programs too. News Flash: N Korea now has nuclear weapons.
LOL! Exactly what I was thinking when he posted that ...thus...show me the money.
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As well as agreeing to tougher inspections of its nuclear plants, Iran says it's voluntarily decided to suspend all uranium enrichment and reprocessing activities.
That article doesnt impress me at all. Its the same game Iraq played with the UN and it's being played only after Iran was caught red handed twice with evidense of enriched uranium at it's nuclear sites.
Iran says they agreed to "tougher" inspections of it's nuclear site and had "voluntarily" decided to "suspend" uranium enrichment. They didn't agree to anything nor say they wouldnt "voluntarily" start enriching it again, but who would be able to stop them anyway?
And I thought they said they were not enriching uranium? What are they enriching it for in the first place?
The whole Idea that Iran needs a nuclear power plant for energy is a complete joke, considering they have the 2nd largest oil reserves on the planet.
The UN is a joke and "agreements" like this are a proven joke.
[edit] actually I'm pretty sure Israel will solve this problem before it hits criticle mass. [edit]
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More fuel for the nuclear fire:
"Israeli and American officials have admitted collaborating to deploy US-supplied Harpoon cruise missiles armed with nuclear warheads in Israel's fleet of Dolphin-class submarines, giving the Middle East's only nuclear power the ability to strike at any of its Arab neighbours."
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1061381,00.html
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Originally posted by popeye
More fuel for the nuclear fire:
"Israeli and American officials have admitted collaborating to deploy US-supplied Harpoon cruise missiles armed with nuclear warheads in Israel's fleet of Dolphin-class submarines, giving the Middle East's only nuclear power the ability to strike at any of its Arab neighbours."
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1061381,00.html
This was an emergent requirement due directly to the fact that Iran was building weapons. Thanks, proves the point that build ups will eventually lead to someone getting vaporized.
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tomahawk cruise yes...harpoon no....harpoon isnt nuclear. Least not the ones I have seen.
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"A senior Israeli defense official
confirmed that Dolphin-class subs
carry modified U.S. Harpoon antiship
missiles. Making them nuclear capable
would require an Israelideveloped
nuclear warhead and guidance
kit for land-attack targets. It is
unknown whether the missiles have
that modification. In March 2000,
the United States rejected Israel’s request
for 12 long-range BGM-109
Tomahawk cruise missiles. The Tomahawk
sea-launched cruise missile
exists in a nuclear-tipped version for
delivery by U.S. attack subs."
http://www.thebulletin.org/issues/nukenotes/so02nukenote.pdf
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Originally posted by GScholz
News flash.
Iran has agreed to suspend its disputed uranium enrichment programme. At talks with the foreign ministers of Germany, France and Britain on Tuesday, diplomatic sources said Iran would halt uranium enrichment and the reprocessing of nuclear fuel, as well as agreeing to sign the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Additional Protocol allowing tougher UN inspections of its nuclear sites. This follows a top-level visit last week by the UN watchdog, which had given Iran until late October to disclose the extent of its nuclear activities. German foreign minister Joschka Fischer said that the accord would "stabilise the region".
http://www.deutschewelle.de/english/0,3367,4789_W_1006177,00.html
Would these be the same German and Franch who were adding Iraq. Will Iran disclose just as Iraq did. Great I feel safe now:rolleyes: :lol
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again no known nuclear harpoon.
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Originally posted by GScholz
And where are the Iraqi nuclear weapons? The UN was quite effective in dismantling the Iraqi nuclear program.
I thought it was a flight of Israeli fighter-bombers that dismantled the Iraqi nuclear weapons program, without UN knowledge.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Yes, and it is also the same Germans that are now testing the new subs they have built for the Israelis, capable of launching nuclear missiles.
If you mean the Type 206 u-boats, I believe those are strictly torpedo-armed boats, with capabilities for reconnaisance and commando insertion (there's a large hatch in the nose for just such a purpose). Israel isn't a customer of the Type 209, 212, and 214. As far as I know, the only German sub with missile capability is the new 214 which can fire Harpoons through half of its torpedo tubes.
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the Race has the most explosive-metal bombs!!!
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Hey GS, ummm...ever considered being a military consultant? Seems like you know a lot about hardware, I'd bet you'd make a killing at it here.
BTW, the first 'royalty' check from the ashtrays is in the mail. ;)
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Originally posted by GScholz
No, the Type 800 SSK Dolphin class, capable of carrying the Popeye Turbo cruise missile, an Israeli made weapon.
Are you sure?
I could swear it was the olive oil missile:aok
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Originally posted by GScholz
So, you're sending me "royalty" checks, I guess one old warrior down in Germany is going to be happy, since you don't know who I am. :D
Hence the ;)...but fuggit, its only money...:rolleyes:
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Cool...thanks.
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I'm still confident a Nuke will be lit in our lifetime
but whos finger will be on the button...thats the real question
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Originally posted by Dnil
again no known nuclear harpoon.
I think it would be safe to say, that if they had to it could be done.
Although I really dont see the value for it. Last time I looked at Harpoon Specs, It was somewhere around 80-100NM range, pretty short legs for a Tac Nuke.
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Originally posted by vorticon
but whos finger will be on the button...thats the real question
Allah's ....:eek: