Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Udie on October 22, 2003, 11:16:59 PM
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One of the main reasons I hate unions.... (http://signonsandiego.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&expire=&urlID=8017787&fb=Y&partnerID=621)
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yep, unions are WORTHLESS. Arizona is a right to work state too.
Unions are out to secure money from it's members and gaurantee the "union" member will only have to basically slack off, get high wages and be almost impossible to fire.... regardless of performance.
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Unions = Organized Crime
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Right... it's all the union's fault. The union goes on strike against Von's and is in turn locked out by Ralph's and Albertson's.
What a surprise.. they're bitter about it.
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I congradulate those who walked out in sympathy, just hope they didn't bite off more than they can chew. Union's are all about standing together for the greater good. Too bad it does'nt always work that way in the real world.
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Unions are old and outdated they have no other function in today’s world then to make the union big wigs wealthy. In history I could see a need but with today’s labor laws and OSHA requirements they are a thing of the past. They cost consumers billions every year and I think are the number one reason we loose jobs to overseas markets everyday. What does a Detroit high school dropout get now for putting lug nuts on a ca,r oh about 26 bucks an hour or the guy that slaps you luggage on the airplane, how about 25-30 an hour.
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Toad will be along shortly....I don't get involved in union discussions anymore after the virtual "lashing" he gave me.:D
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I'll never forget the Teamsters strike back in like 1994. The non-union UPS drivers in Houston kept on making deliveries, you know delivering the stuff that companies need to do business. Well the police union in houston decided to stick by the teamsters and would pull over and herrass the "scab" drivers. What kind of BS is that? I'd call it an abuse of power myself. Of course nobody was held accountable, well actually I think the union head got fired over it. Those cops should have lost their badges as far as I'm concerned.
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In college, working summers as a laborer, the BA(that is, business Agent) would stop by the jobsite once a week to pick up our "dues". They had a special program, you see, for kids like me who were "just" putting themselves through school, as opposed to being permanent laborers. We(there were several students working) would pay the BA $20.00 a week, cash money, and, in turn, he would not shut the(non-union) job down.
Sorry ****er, he would roll up on Monday morning in his Gold Caddie, smile his Gold teeth, and refuse to give us a reciept for the "dues" we paid him. Unions at work!
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Oh, yeah, one more funny Union story. I worked on the IBEW(International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) building, 610 loop by 290 in Houston. Guess what? It was a non-union job. Know why? The Union went with the low bid instead of paying the substantially higher bid by the Union Company.
Both Companies were the same, actually, Zapata Warrior Construction, but they had 2 divisions, one Unionized, the other not.
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I'm sure there's same percentage of idiots in people who are in unions and those who are not. I'm sure things would be much better without unions.:rolleyes: Unions are not compulsory, why are you complaining?
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>>Unions are not compulsory, why are you complaining?
Actually in some states, they can be. For example in CA, there is a union for state hospital workers. Everyone who works for the state hospital system must be in the union and pay union dues, if even they don't want to be in the union.
I'm not defending this practice... I'm just saying that in some states if a company has a contract with a unioin to be union only than any one working for that company has to be in the union.
Personally... I don't agree with this practice.
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Originally posted by mora
Unions are not compulsory, why are you complaining?
Unions would be compulsory if they had their way. And there are a lot of jobs which are difficult to get into without union membership.
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you can always find cheap labor at the bottom of every one of your "conservative". points.
mean in the old meaning of the word. summs it up.
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Yeah, the NFLPA union doesn't do a thing for its members. :rolleyes:
Without the NFLPA, the players wouldn't get their share of the NFL gate profits.
Without the NFLPA, the players wouldn't have a retirement plan.
Without the NFLPA, the players wouldn't have their free agency rights.
Yeah, the NFLPA doesn't help the players at all. Who needs unions?
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Originally posted by Scootter
In history I could see a need but with today’s labor laws and OSHA requirements they are a thing of the past.
Those came about due to labor union pressure in the political arena. Employers certainly didn't sponsor the OSHA bills - it cost them money to implement. OSHA benefits the workers, and was pushed by the workers, including the unions representing those workers.
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
>>Unions are not compulsory, why are you complaining?
Actually in some states, they can be. For example in CA, there is a union for state hospital workers. Everyone who works for the state hospital system must be in the union and pay union dues, if even they don't want to be in the union.
Its the same in Fla with the teachers' unions. Everybody pays, but everybody benefits, too. The logic is that there's no way to implement policies exclusive to one group of workers - that would be job discrimination - so the policies are set for everybody based on the collective bargaining agreement with the union. Since everybody benefits from the agreement, everybody pays union dues.
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Uh,..went to a computer show in New York we were participating in (back in my Tandy days). Guess what. Our trucks backed up to the hotel and they refused to let us unload them. We were told only union personnel could unload the truck.
Ok,..fine. So the next morning (show started at 10am..big press release type of deal) the union guys show up and start unloading the truck. At 9am they stop for a 15 minute break. It was union requirements.
They get the stuff off the trucks by 9:30am. We ask where we could get some dollies to move the stuff to the banquet room. We got told that another union was required to do that.
The other union happen to be on strike. The hotel called in the police as some of use started manually moving the equipment to the press release room.
The police arrive and wrote us a ticket and told us that if we attempted to move any of the equipment, they would start arresting people.
The multi-million dollar press release got cancelled. Oh, the hotel was the Waldorf and Tandy had about 100 rooms taken plus 3 banquet rooms.
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Originally posted by Gadfly
In college, working summers as a laborer, the BA(that is, business Agent) would stop by the jobsite once a week to pick up our "dues". They had a special program, you see, for kids like me who were "just" putting themselves through school, as opposed to being permanent laborers. We(there were several students working) would pay the BA $20.00 a week, cash money, and, in turn, he would not shut the(non-union) job down.
Sorry ****er, he would roll up on Monday morning in his Gold Caddie, smile his Gold teeth, and refuse to give us a reciept for the "dues" we paid him. Unions at work!
That's called extortion. I'm surprised you didn't call the cops about it.
There was a similar scam going on here shortly after Hurricane Andrew when contractors were hard to find because there was so much construction going on. An outfit would act as a "job finder". If you paid $x, he'd get you a job. If you didn't pay, "sorry, mang. No chob for choo today."
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Uh,..went to a computer show in New York we were participating in (back in my Tandy days). Guess what. Our trucks backed up to the hotel and they refused to let us unload them. We were told only union personnel could unload the truck.
Ok,..fine. So the next morning (show started at 10am..big press release type of deal) the union guys show up and start unloading the truck. At 9am they stop for a 15 minute break. It was union requirements.
They get the stuff off the trucks by 9:30am. We ask where we could get some dollies to move the stuff to the banquet room. We got told that another union was required to do that.
The other union happen to be on strike. The hotel called in the police as some of use started manually moving the equipment to the press release room.
The police arrive and wrote us a ticket and told us that if we attempted to move any of the equipment, they would start arresting people.
The multi-million dollar press release got cancelled. Oh, the hotel was the Waldorf and Tandy had about 100 rooms taken plus 3 banquet rooms.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
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Udie, I have had the same thing happen in San ANtonio at the convention center. Bring in a truck of concrete products, about 30,000# worth, on a truck with a spyder(tag-a-long forklift), we unload the pallets off the truck to the dock, and when that is done, move the spyder up the ramp to move them inside the center. The Oafs loafing on their forklift on the dock come over, "hey, you can't do that, union rules!" OK, says I, get after it.
Well it turns out there is this little thing called Money they want to do it. No big, says I again, get after it. "Have to have the signed work order first" OK, no big. I head for convention services and fill out the paperwork, up to the point where it lists the price: $7.50 per 100weight. Hmm, I'm thinking, that seems a little high to move the 5 pallets about 100 feet, let me get my calcuator out: $2250.00! The 10x20 booth was only $1500, plus the rapine of the chairs, backdrops and tables. No choice, really, I am being extorted(got that go-faster, more legal extortion), and the show has to go on. OK, boys, get after it!
Lunch time! See you in an hour and a half!
I took the contract back to convention services and told them we wouldn't need it. Moved the material in myself with a pallet jack, set the booth up and went on with my life. THe kicker was, that that price was only to move the material IN, the same price applied to move it OUT! I always give the material away, though, so that didn't bother me.
We won't even discuss the Electrical Union follies of running an extension cord(about 10' worth) to the booth for the waterfall...
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
...We got told that another union was required to do that.
The other union happen to be on strike. ...
The police arrive and wrote us a ticket and told us that if we attempted to move any of the equipment, they would start arresting people.
The multi-million dollar press release got cancelled. Oh, the hotel was the Waldorf and Tandy had about 100 rooms taken plus 3 banquet rooms.
Yep the unions have New York pretty much locked up.
It's a beeech!
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I'm part of a union. It can draft me and send me off to war. But I wouldn't call it a useless union, it does alot for me.
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hmm... right to work has almost nothing to do with unions. they say it does but it dont. the way 'right to work" works is your employed "at will" of your boss. he can fire you without cause and all he is obligated to pay you is minimum wage. no matter what you agreed to work for. and he can harass, yell and act like a fool. but most importantly for skilled labor and tradesmen wages are very low compared to states without right to work laws. basicly what happens is your working then you are given a choice get fired or take a big cut in pay. thats what happened when N. dakota got a right to work law in effect.
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"at will" is the proper term, and it means several things, one of which is that you can not be forced to join a union, and also that you can quit, or you can be fired, at will(within the laws, of course).
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Texas has state laws to protect the worker from arbitrary abuse. Most states that have "right to work", normally do.
If you get fired for no reason, you can sue the employer for wages and court costs. Of course, you can fall back to workmans compensation if you get dismissed from a job without good cause.
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
you can always find cheap labor at the bottom of every one of your "conservative". points.
mean in the old meaning of the word. summs it up.
It's liberals who are flinging the doors open to cheap illegal labor from south of the border.
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DmdNexus: ...company has a contract with a unioin to be union only than any one working for that company has to be in the union.
A private company should be able to make any kind of contract with whoever it wants - and suffer the consequences. So the "Righ to Work" laws that override or restrict private contracts are as unjust as the state support of the unions or unions' use of violence.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
miko
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Texas has state laws to protect the worker from arbitrary abuse. Most states that have "right to work", normally do.
If you get fired for no reason, you can sue the employer for wages and court costs. Of course, you can fall back to workmans compensation if you get dismissed from a job without good cause.
And the TEC will usually take the employee's side. My last job in Houston I was the manager of the CAD department. We had a guy come in there and was just about the most lazy person I have ever worked with. Well on his 88th day he was fired. The day before we fired him I had caught him 3 times playing solitaire on company time. So we fired him the next day, and 2 days before he would have been legaly entitled to unemployment.
Well he went and filed for unemployment anyway and they gave it to him. So my boss contested it. About a month later we were called by a judge from the TEC and told that the next day we had a hearing (over the phone) about this issue. We had a conference call with all the parties on the phone and we were all sworn in by the judge. Then we each gave our testimony. Well to make a long story short my boss and I told the trueth about why he was fired and he simply said "they're lieing". He won the case and got to keep recieving unemployment checks.
Thankfully my boss appealed the ruling and the kid wasn't home for the next hearing and lost the case because of that. I think he had to pay the money back too! No doubt that he would have won again had he been home like he said he would. We had the same judge. She couldn't believe that he wasn't there to give his case again.
Basicly in Texas you can get fired for anything the boss wants to fire you for. But if it is for reasons other than insubordination you will most likely get 80% of your base pay while on unemployment, at least I think it's 80% could be wrong about the ammount. There is no damn union to extort my money for their own agenda's and tell me when and where I can or cannot work....
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Miko, the "Right to Work" laws in Texas simply mean an employer cannot force anyone to be union and they cannot use that as hiring criteria.
It sounds like "Right To Work" may have different meanings in different states, from what I am reading hear.
Basically the State of Texas is telling unions to "stick it where the sun don't shine". If someone wants to work, then they should be allowed to work.
Now, in practice, it is a bit different. Like most things witha good idea as a base, much like the unions, things do get twisted out of shape over time.
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I've crossed the picket line to shop at Ralphs. The picketers were very nice. My wife mentioned to one that she was afraid of being harassed. The striker said that they wanted to make sure we came back to the store after the strike and that customers were to be treated with respect at all times.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I've crossed the picket line to shop at Ralphs. The picketers were very nice. My wife mentioned to one that she was afraid of being harassed. The striker said that they wanted to make sure we came back to the store after the strike and that customers were to be treated with respect at all times.
I wonder what would have happened to you if you were going in to sack groceries for a living.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I've crossed the picket line to shop at Ralphs. The picketers were very nice. My wife mentioned to one that she was afraid of being harassed. The striker said that they wanted to make sure we came back to the store after the strike and that customers were to be treated with respect at all times.
Hmmm... AFAIK, they aren't on strike at Ralph's. They are locked out.
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thanks to a union a 20 year employee can have lower pay and seniority than some little ____ who just finished his apprenticeship...
yep onions work well nowadays dont they
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Skuzzy: Miko, the "Right to Work" laws in Texas simply mean an employer cannot force anyone to be union and they cannot use that as hiring criteria.
I realise that. And I am against such government intervention.
The "right to work" law allows - or forces - the businesses to violate the contracts they voluntarily signed with the unions.
If I am stupid enough to voluntarily sign a contract with you that I only hire people that you approve of for my private business, why should the government interfere in my self-ruinous decision?
Government should not support unions by endorcing their monopoly but it should not oppose them either by invalidating the contracts signed with the unions.
Imagine if a man signs a prenaptual contract with his wife that forbids her to sleep around, otherwise she would have to grant him a divorce and not claim his property or support.
Then a legislature would enact a "Righ to Fornicate" law, that absolves the wife from her obligations. If someone wants to sleep with a man's wife, they should be allowed to, right? She shouldn't be restricted from sleeping with that someone regardless of whatever she voluntarily agreed to, right?
By the way, what does the US Constitution say about it?
Article I, Section 10. No state shall... pass any[/b] bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts[/b],...
You see - even if the States may pass laws forbidding certain kinds of contracts in the future, they are specifically denied the power to interfere with the existing contracts.
miko
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It also nullifies noncompete agreements.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Hmmm... AFAIK, they aren't on strike at Ralph's. They are locked out.
Technically true.