Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: vorticon on October 23, 2003, 07:25:26 PM
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would be interesting to see it in AH...flesh out the italian set a bit more anyway...
(http://[img]http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_53_1066955062.jpg)[/IMG]
(taken from the illustrated directory of FIGHTING AIRCRAFT of world war II)
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would be very nice.
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One of the things that I think we all have to consider in aircraft requests, and please forgive me it isn't directed at Italian ACs, is that during WWII the Americans (no allies included) built over 250,000 planes. WWII was the afternoon of the aircraft in combat as opposed to WWI. This was the first serious demonstration of the power of Air Supremacy. An idea that continues without doubt to this day. A plane that had a total run in comparison equal to roughly 0.1% of the US production is so rare as to be unimaginably vague. 1000 US aircraft were built compared to the each of the various Regianne. This is without comparing all Allied/Axis plane production which would put the Regianne as being roughly on the order of 1:70000. Imagine this... for every single plane that you see either in your country or not 1 out of 70000 is a Regianne variant of which 1 out of 350000 is a plane that stands even a chance in everyday MA operations.
Yes I realize that the 262, 234, and 163s are also comparatively vague but these aircraft represent the Third generation of ACs. As such and considering that they were produced and flown in combat during WWII hostilities demonstrates the idea that they were important.
Biplanes and Zeppelins are Generation 1 the beginning.
Planes like the 190D9, P51D, and Tempest are the pinnacle of Generation 2. Which begins roughly speaking with the bf 109, Spitfire, and Zero. Note I didn't mention a US aircraft because the US Army laughed at the idea of aircraft playing any important role in combat.
Jet propelled aircraft Generation 3. ME 262s, AR234s, MiG15s, F117s.
For completeness sake I'll include the Dark Stars and Predators which are the dawn of Generation 4. The unmanned AC that human G force tolerance is not an issue in and hence the apex predator of non-terrestrial combat in Earth atmosphere.
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It represents one of the most suitable additions to the AH Italian planeset, which is 1/<10 countries to be represented,and not the least of all plausible countries to include now or later, since we already have the 202+205.
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Production Numbers have no bearing on wheather a plane will or will not be added to AH, AH is already Top Heavy with US Equipment and it is high time that other countrys get more representation, presently it is extreamly dificult to make certain CT and Event Set up's due to this discrepency in modeling aircraft.
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To read in some depth about the Re.2000, go to this page on my website, Re.2000 Falco (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Reggiane.html)
(http://home.att.net/~historyzone/re2000_MM408b.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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Hrmm that looks like a P-43 Lancer which later devloped into the P-47 Thunderbolt :aok
(http://www.cradleofaviation.org/history/aircraft/p-47/Yp-43comp.jpg)
(http://www.cradleofaviation.org/history/aircraft/p-47/Ap-4comp.jpg)
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Sort of missing my point. I'll try again. I want more Italian, Japanese, and German aircraft in AH. I don't want more US aircraft. However my desire for new non-US aircraft is tempered by production numbers. An aircraft that had 300 variants produced is not as desirable as one that had 3000. As with any rule there are exceptions. I'd love to see the Japanese and US experimental jet fighters. If nothing else it would help in the what if CT setups.
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I would love to see more Italian planes, - notably the Re 2000 series, MC 200, Fiat G50 series and the Cant.
I did not quite get that part about the overwhelming numbers of US aircraft in comparison to other nations planes. Variety is good, and aircraft of many nations create more setup possibilities.
Looking closer into that also, the missing planes that hit very high production numbers are mostly russian......
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Originally posted by scJazz
Sort of missing my point. I'll try again. I want more Italian, Japanese, and German aircraft in AH. I don't want more US aircraft. However my desire for new non-US aircraft is tempered by production numbers. An aircraft that had 300 variants produced is not as desirable as one that had 3000. As with any rule there are exceptions. I'd love to see the Japanese and US experimental jet fighters. If nothing else it would help in the what if CT setups.
my point is that we need more italian fighters...and the re 2000 is the only one (other than c202/205) wich wont be completly useless...anyway this is more of a long term want...other plane sets need some looking at first
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missed mine too: if you (the playing customer) want it, it should be there, except if it really goes against the spirit of the game.
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[size=8]SPANISH CIVIL WAR [/size]
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AS USUALY I AGREE WITH U WTG WTG!!!
add some italian plane would be am imteresting addiction
about MA; CT : and Scenarios,
i mean MALTA
Spanish war
GREEK
North AFRICA!!!!
so re 2000 would be very nice but there are a big list!!!!
about italians airplane
and about nembers .....
i made some example: u have to compare numbers
not beetwin nation but about the total numbers of plane
that a nation build...
italy build about 10.000c airplane in wwII
so
FIAT G-55 -----------------------> 1.8% ONTO TOTAL ITALIAN AIRPLANE PRODUCED
FIAT REGGIANE 2005----------> 0.36% ONTO TOTAL ITALIAN AIRPLANE PRODUCED
NK2-JSHIDEN KAY-------------->0.34% ONTO TOTAL JAPAN AIRPLANE PRODUCED
ME-163--------------------------->0.25% ONTO TOTAL GERMAN AIRPLANE PRODUCED
and About MA i cannot think that russian made so much LA7 that i have seen there!!! hehehehehe
joking out that is the list tell me what u prefer!!!
[SIZE=8]THE 3 ENGINEED BOMBER[/size]
SM-79 "sparviero" called "the cursed hunchback"
History and spec (http://www.aviation-history.com/savoia-marchetti/sm79.html) and at History and Spec (http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/f5avipatches/sm79%20page.html)
(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/savoia/sm79_otranto_1941.jpg)
(http://www.regiaaeronautica.it/immagini/aerei/bombardieri/S79_4.jpg)
Cantz 1007bis "Alcione"
History and spec (http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/f5avipatches/cantz%201007%20page.html)
[/color]
(http://www.regiaaeronautica.it/immagini/aerei/bombardieri/1007_2.jpg)
[SIZE=8]FIAT FIGHTERS[/size]
Fiat g50bis "Freccia" (Arrow)
History and spec (http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/fiatg50.html) or at
History and spec (http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/f5avipatches/g50%20page.html)
(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/fiat/fiat_g50bis162sq161gr_egeo.jpg)
fiat g55
History and specifications (http://www.comandosupremo.com/G55.html)
OR AT
History and specifications (http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/f5avipatches/g55%20page.html)
(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/fiat/fiat_g55-archivio_ami02.jpg)
[SIZE=8]REGGIANE'S FIGTHERS[/size]
Rggiane 2000 "falco I" (hawk I)
History and specifications (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Reggiane.html)[/size]
(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/reggiane/re2000_pantelleria.jpg)
Reggiane 2001 "Falco II" (hawk II)
History and specifications (http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/f5avipatches/re2001%20page.html)[/size]
(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/reggiane/re2001_mm409.jpg)
Reggiane 2002 "Ariete" (Ram)
History and specifications (http://web.tiscali.it/no-redirect-tiscali/aeromania/Caproni%20Reggiane%202002.htm)[/size]
(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/reggiane/re2002_239sq102gr5st_tuffatori.jpg)
Reggiane 2005 "Sagittario"
History and specifications (http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/f5avipatches/re2005%20page.html)[/size]
(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/reggiane/re2005.jpg)
[SIZE=8]MACCHI'S FIGTHER[/size]
Macchi MC 200 "saetta"
History and specifications (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap12.htm)[/size]
(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/macchi/mc200_riarmo.jpg)
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Originally posted by Strange
Hrmm that looks like a P-43 Lancer which later devloped into the P-47 Thunderbolt :aok
(http://www.cradleofaviation.org/history/aircraft/p-47/Yp-43comp.jpg)
(http://www.cradleofaviation.org/history/aircraft/p-47/Ap-4comp.jpg)
Regianne freely admitted to using the Seversky P-35 as the basis for their Re.2000 fighter. Reggiane made several improvements, the greatest of which was the flush retracting landing gear. In terms of maneuverability, the P-35 was considerably more agile than the P-36 or P-40. However, the lighter Re.2000 was even better than the Seversky, better even than the Fiat CR.42 biplane fighter! Modelled correctly for AH, it would rival A6M2 as the most maneuverable fighter in the game.
The photos shown are of the Seversky (later Republic) YP-43 and the Seversky AP-4, from which the P-43 was developed. The XP-47B was a new design, considerably different from the P-43, although the family resemblance is very strong.
By the way, I wrote that article for the Cradle of Aviation Museum, and it can also be found here. (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic.html)
My regards,
Widewing
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Nice Post BigJava:)
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Strange said:
Hrmm that looks like a P-43 Lancer which later devloped into the P-47 Thunderbolt
And the Re2005 is a p-47 on SlimFast... :D
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up! :D ;) :aok
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RE-2005 and the Fiat G-55 I would love to see in AH. Any of the Re series would be nice but those first!!!!
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All Italian aeronautical engineers learned their craft at the Italian Institute of Ugly Aircraft.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
All Italian aeronautical engineers learned their craft at the Italian Institute of Ugly Aircraft.
i suppose u do not like italian style so....:rolleyes: but i'm not surprise .....looking to your good looking avatar! ;) :D
that is for Arlo it's not a Spitfire but some Spain Franco's Flag planes:aok
FIAT CR 32
(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/fiat/cr32_x_gr_baleari.jpg)
SAVOIA MARCHETTI SM 38
(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/savoia/sm79_scw_29gr_bv.jpg)
FIAT BR 20 CICOGNA
(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/fiat/fiat_br20_gr23.jpg)
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I'd love to see more planes from a variety of nations...most of us (myself included) have very limited knowledge of planes outside of the (US/BRITISH/GERMAN) sets. Most of us know the Zero, Yak and a few others...but I had no clue about the Ki-84, La-5/7 or 205 till I started flying various sims. Personally I think an "up engined" 205 with a better canopy (both easily accomplishable) would of been dominant point defense fighter of late 1942. (this actually almost happened...at one point reccomendation was in front of LW to adapt 205 as successor to the 109. I'm not sure if political or production issues deep sixed it. A 205 with a G10 engine would be monster as is:)
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Originally posted by humble
I'd love to see more planes from a variety of nations...most of us (myself included) have very limited knowledge of planes outside of the (US/BRITISH/GERMAN) sets. Most of us know the Zero, Yak and a few others...but I had no clue about the Ki-84, La-5/7 or 205 till I started flying various sims. Personally I think an "up engined" 205 with a better canopy (both easily accomplishable) would of been dominant point defense fighter of late 1942. (this actually almost happened...at one point reccomendation was in front of LW to adapt 205 as successor to the 109. I'm not sure if political or production issues deep sixed it. A 205 with a G10 engine would be monster as is:)
:) heheheheh
the 205 engine was the Daimler-Benz DB605A1 built on licence in italy
the same engine of 109 g series (without 109-G10's MW50 the H2O+metanol WEP) that mean +-1,200hp .
quite like a G2 or G6 with normal WEP...
but in few words i tell u a story
title
theITALIANS "FIVE" SERIES:
well....
In the year of war
the REGIA AEREONAUTICA to contrast the Bomber Enemy's Raids
Ordered to MACCHI, FIAT, REGGIANE to build a figther more speed, powerfull and moore armed.
Luftwaffe Engeneer came in italy to help italian engeneers to test the prototype
German was very interested about italian fighter project becouse the LW never had since then a Figther manouvrable like the allied had....
They wanna try to put in the same airplane italian attitude to produce manouvrable figther and their Damned powerfull Engines!!!
they tested and compared beetwin them all italian's 5 series
i mean
Macchi MC 205
Reggiane 2005
Fiat G-55
Those are the prototype....
at the end the Italian-German commission
said that the better is the
fiat g-55 (becouse it was manovrable like a spit +3X20mm gun)
Second the Re 2005
and only third the MC 205
... but italian's factory weren't able to produce immediately
so much new figther
as the German friends Suggest to DO....
Becouse too many Bomber raid over Milano Torino Firenze's factories and facilities ...
....also that produce a new airplane means redo all productive Factory's Chain....and under bombs is not so easy do that...
The REGIA AEREONAUTICA's choice was only one: produce the 205 becouse he use same wing, tail etc of MC 202 (already in production)
The MC 205 Win becouse is a modular 200-202-205 series ....
only few REGGIANE and FIAT Was Build Before Italian Surrender to Freedom!!!!!:aok
happy that u like the 205 and hoping haven't boring u
best regards BJ
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