Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Twist on October 23, 2003, 11:38:39 PM
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A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and had grown to be in strong favor for the distribution of all wealth in America. She felt deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch conservative which she expressed openly.
One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and more welfare programs. In the middle of her heart felt diatribe based upon the lectures she had from her far left professors at her school, he stopped her and asked her point blank how she was doing in school.
She answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain. That she had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of spending all her time studying. That she was taking a more difficult curriculum.
Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Mary." She replied, "Mary is barely getting by", she continued, "all she has is barely a 2.0 GPA" adding, "and all she takes are easy classes and she never studies."
But to explain further she continued emotionally, "But Mary is so very popular on campus, college for her is a blast, she goes to all the parties all the time and very often doesn't even show up for classes because she is too hung over."
Her father then asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0." He continued, "That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would-be a fair equal distribution of GPA."
The daughter visibly shocked by the fathers suggestion angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I worked really hard for mine, I did without and Mary has done little or nothing, she played while I worked real hard!"
The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."
:aok
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RIGHT ON BRO!!! :aok
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Unfortunately, her actual response would be along these lines:
Why don't we just do away with the grades all together? All they prove is the ingrained bias against my firend Mary's race, and school is about experience, not learning, anyway.
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Well I know one thing for sure, it's nice to have liberal professors who let you have open book exams and bring 2 index cards of notes to the final exam. The best ones tell you what questions will be on the exam ahead of time.
Now that's what I call a good compromise!!! Have grades, only give the answers ahead of time, before the mid terms.
Yeah, that's the ticket!!!:D
Les
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what GPA do peple who cannot afford to go to college and work 50 hour weeks labouring to make end meet get?
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Leslie, hypothetical question: If you as a teacher could give everyone in your class knowledge, and all you had to do was tell them the answers, would you? Not that I am defending the practice of giving answers to a test right before the test, just wondering how people view knowledge and its acquisition...
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Originally posted by niknak
what GPA do peple who cannot afford to go to college and work 50 hour weeks labouring to make end meet get?
The same one my father got...
Its called a paycheck.
Not everyone goes to college, but if you work hard, your kids will.
Life is not fair....get used to it.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
The same one my father got...
Its called a paycheck.
Not everyone goes to college, but if you work hard, your kids will.
Life is not fair....get used to it.
So a person's ability to go to college should be determined by their parents income?
Republicans equate having money is the same as working hard and having good values, and those who don't have money are lazy.
Let's take Dubya's biography for example...
Ran for congress and lost.
Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.
Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas; company went bankrupt shortly after he sold all his stock.
Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.
With father's help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.
Accomplishments in Previous Positions
Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union.
Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog-ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money.
Set record for most executions by any governor in American history.
Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of his father's appointments to the Supreme Court.
Accomplishments As President
Attacked and took over two countries.
Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
First president in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in U.S. history.
After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.
Set the record for most campaign fundraising trips than any other president in U.S. history.
In his first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their jobs.
Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in U.S. history.
Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in U.S. history.
Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in U.S. history.
Presided over the biggest energy crises in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
Presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest him (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/marches/)
Dissolved more international treaties than any president in U.S. history.
His presidency is the most secretive and unaccountable of any in U.S. history.
Members of his cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history (the 'poorest' multimillionaire, Condoleezza Rice, has an Exxon oil tanker named after her).
Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
First president in U.S. history to order a U.S. attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.
Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in U.S. history.
First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the human rights commission.
First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the elections monitoring board.
Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in U.S. history.
Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
Refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
First president in U.S. history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. elections).
All-time U.S. (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
My biggest lifetime campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in U.S. history.
First president in U.S. history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
First president to run and hide when the U.S. came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
First U.S. president to establish a secret shadow government.
Took the biggest world sympathy for the U.S. after 9/11, and in less than a year made the U.S. the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in U.S. and world history).
With a policy of 'disengagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
First U.S. president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
First U.S. president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the U.S. than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated U.S. law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
Failed to fulfill his pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive.'
Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capital building. After 18 months he had no leads and zero suspects.
In the 18 months following the 9/11 attacks he successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in U.S. history.
In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the U.S. has ever been since the Civil War.
Entered office with the strongest economy in U.S. history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
Records and References
At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available)
AWOL from National Guard and deserted the military during a time of war.
Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
All records of his tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my father's library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All records of any SEC investigations into his insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All minutes of meetings for any public corporation he served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
Any records or minutes from meetings his (or his VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.
Now that's a hardworking individual!
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Nexus, you can derail a thread better than anybody on this board.
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Well, I think it is terrible that people who could succeed in college do not always get the opportunity to go.
But as I said.....life's unfair.
So people are afforded opportunities others are not.
Dubya, and just about every other spoiled brat in Washington was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. JFK ring a bell?
I'm not sure what you alluded to in your wall o' text, Nexus. I simply do not have time to read something of that length right now. I'll try and get to it this weekend.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Nexus, you can derail a thread better than anybody on this board.
Oh,was that what that was all about?
So the whole thing was a cut and paste job because he saw an opportunity to take a shot at GWB?
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
Republicans equate having money is the same as working hard and having good values, and those who don't have money are lazy.
Its not just Republicans. I think too many people equate money with hard work. I know plenty of roofers who work hard all day with toxic chemicals who don't make squat. I know people who work 30 hours a week and spend the other 10 hours at their desk reading the newspaper who make six figures. As I write this, the guy in the office next to me is reading the NY Times and won't be "working" for another hour or so.
I think making money is more a matter of opportunity, ability, and luck than a simple case of hard work.
The thing about college is that its the last time that everybody is pretty much equal. Once they get that B.A. degree, they enter the economic class system. Some continue their education as a way to improve the economic opportunities available to them in the future. Others enter the workforce to take advantage of economic opportunities available at the present. Others enter the workforce and muddle along as best they can based on what's available.
Never associate failure with laziness. I know a lot of smart, hard-working, well-educated people who've lost their money due to a change in their markets.
Now about this "take from the rich and give to the poor" thing in the first post, that's more an example of Marxist communism than Democratic Party thinking.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Oh,was that what that was all about?
So the whole thing was a cut and paste job because he saw an opportunity to take a shot at GWB?
Yeah pretty much. Seems that's what Nexus does to a lot of threads, turn them into a shot at GW. All politicians live in glass houses anyway.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Yeah pretty much. Seems that's what Nexus does to a lot of threads, turn them into a shot at GW. All politicians live in glass houses anyway.
I don't understand how people can think any other way. When making a decision, the first person every politico things of is himself or herself. Simple fact. Dem or Rep. Washington cares about Washington. If the needs of Congress happen to conincide with the needs of the people, hey Bonus!
Anyone who thinks differently is deluding themselves. If it makes a good hobby to spend time turning GWB into the Anti-christ...hey, knock yourself out. Me? I'll keep on being cynical and voting for the guy who looks the most harmless to my well being.
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As an analogy let's say that... the US becomes a CASH only economy... no more credit...
In order to buy a house, one has to have CASH up front... well, only those who have money will be able to afford a house.... the rest will be renting. and may or may not ever be able to save enough money in their life time to own a house...
People with ideas for new inventions would not be able to get R&D money ... again many new ideas will not happen...
A lot of businesses wanting to grow and bring their products to more people would not be able too or would not be able as fast.
The economy would not grow as fast... the standard of living and wealth would not flurish as well as it does today in our current system of credit.
In short the 'Haves' will acquire more, and the 'Have nots' will have less.
The opportunity to go to college is like credit... it is an investment in the potentional of individuals... each individual has the potentional to do great things... not all do... yet many do, and the benifits of an educated society out way the disadvantages of an impoverished ignorant society.
It makes sense from a business point of view also. If hi-tech companies want to sell their hi-tech products, they need a saavy hi-tech consumer who makes good money to afford their product.
"All boats rise on the incoming tide".... (JFK)
Saying that only those who can afford college deserve to go to college is rather short sighted.
Dubya went to college and he's an example of someone in the 'HAVEs' and he's hasn't done much good for any one. He and the Republican party, basically are crooks... His hard work involves stealing from every one else and giving to himself.
Hardly noble characteristics.
I wonder if Kenneth Lay is a Republican? I betcha he is!
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Geez give up with the propaganda campaign already nexus. Did you just discover politics or something? How about stop trying to derail meaningful threads with cut and paste partisan BS? There are still many options for those who want to continue their education in the U.S. including military service or saving money to pay for classes. And don't tell me it can't be done since I paid for my Bachelors by myself and my wife did the same for her MD. Where there is a will there is a way and you don't need politicians to take your money and give you 60 cents on the dollar back.
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As to the original thread :rofl
As for Nexus… it’s the right to PERSUE happiness. Not the RIGHT of happiness.
Don’t have the money for school? Go for the scholarship or take out a loan.
Pursuit, key word, pursuit ;).
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Sigh
Nexus needs counselling or something
When you come to work and your papers are shuffled, is that GWB's fault too?
Oh look...black helicopter! :p
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Originally posted by Kieran
Leslie, hypothetical question: If you as a teacher could give everyone in your class knowledge, and all you had to do was tell them the answers, would you? Not that I am defending the practice of giving answers to a test right before the test, just wondering how people view knowledge and its acquisition...
Hi Kieran. Good to see you back.
I was speaking from personal experience as a student, and refering to five instances in my case. In two cases, the courses were freshmen science classes (Chemistry and Biology.) The professors reasoned that most students taking the course were fulfilling a requirement of their general curriculum, and therefore not going into that particular field. They saw no need to make it tough on such students, who could probably better use their study time on subjects within their majors. They were easy-going professors, and those students who showed up for class and listened could not possibly fail.
One statistics class (lab) was geared so that having the answers wouldn't have mattered on exams. There was only one exam that took 8 hours and had six questions, of which you chose three to answer. The process was more important than the correct answer, and you had to show every step of how you arrived at an answer. This required about 30 pages of notebook paper to hand in.
The other two classes were a 200 level English class and a 400 level Spanish class. In the case of the English class, there was a minor hurricane blowing outside on a class day. The professor was there and classes had not been canceled. Only three students showed, and as a reward to those students, the professor told us exactly what to study for the mid term, which was about two weeks away. This was a very tough professor and a lucky break for me.
The Spanish class was Latin American Literature. The professor did not stay in the room during the mid term. She treated us as adults...open book and all the notes we could fit on two 4 x 6" index cards. Even then a couple classmates tried to copy other's notes, because they didn't study. I considered that cheating and did not cooperate. For the final, the class was split in half, some at a conference table in the faculty office, and the others in a classroom.
Btw, one of the biggest "cheaters" is currently employed as a teacher in one of our local "magnet" schools. Magnet schools are public schools with high performance results. So he must be a good teacher, though I was not impressed with him as a fellow student in that particular class.
Several years after graduation, one of my Spanish professors called me up to see if I wanted a job teaching Spanish at a private school. This was to replace a teacher who was leaving. He lamented that virtually all of the graduates being turned out were not Spanish majors, but Education majors taking Spanish with the idea of teaching it. He was not very complimentary toward them...called them stupid!!!
I'm a professional artist, and chose not to take this job, though I might have if thought I could do both that and keep up with my art at the same time. Guess it's not in my personality to teach, however I have great respect for good teachers, and I believe you are one of those Kieran.
About the hypothetical question. I believe there is a difference between knowledge and thinking (wisdom.) I'll approach this question from an artist's point of view. I could show someone how to mix colors, how to prepare a canvas, how to use perspective and compose the image so it's balanced. I could give them knowledge about design elements. I could take them to a museum and analyze works of the masters. I could even suggest how to give a painting "soul." So yes, I would give all the answers, especially to serious students planning on going into the field with that knowledge. In this case it would save time in an advanced class.
What I can't do is tell someone what to paint, or teach them "how" to paint. That is learned through many years of trial and error. There is a saying as applied to artists: No matter what you (paint) or how poorly it's done, do it long enough and over time it becomes legitimate.
Sorry for the long post folks. Wanted to reply to Kieran's post.
Les
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
So a person's ability to go to college should be determined by their parents income?
Republicans equate having money is the same as working hard and having good values, and those who don't have money are lazy.
Actually, this country is chock full of people that think prosperity and success are the same thing. It's not a partisan thing.
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Set record for most executions by any governor in American history
Yup and as one Texan Damn glad he did:aok
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Originally posted by gofaster
As I write this, the guy in the office next to me is reading the NY Times and won't be "working" for another hour or so.
Is nobody else going to comment on the irony of this statement?
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Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog-ridden city in America.
Houston didn't change. It was the Hollywood lefties driving alternate energy cars that cleaned up the LA airshed.
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Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
Those two alone make him the best President since Ronald Reagan .
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Thanks for the reply, Leslie.
I would do whatever worked to give the students the information I was tasked to pass on. No way word-of-mouth takes the place of experience of course, but sometimes I read people's comments on teaching and feel perhaps people view education as some sort of gauntlet that should be run, and the more difficult, the better. To do it right, the participant should be battered within an inch of his or her life.
No way your professors should ever just hand you the answers- the questions, perhaps, if you are going to have to write an essay summing up what you have learned in the course (for instance), but generally that should not be done. But, as we know, there are bad teachers...
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
He and the Republican party, basically are crooks... His hard work involves stealing from every one else and giving to himself.
Stealing? STEALING!
By chance do you find employment in a University or College?
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I have decided I am going to be a conservative and join the Republican party.
Can somebody suggest a place where I can get a cheap lobotomy?.....or is it free with membership?
Thank you in advance.
yowser
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Originally posted by yowser
I have decided I am going to be a conservative and join the Republican party.
Can somebody suggest a place where I can get a cheap lobotomy?.....or is it free with membership?
Thank you in advance.
yowser
The Democratic / Liberal version is a much more extensive procedure requiring a much longer hospital stay and therefore is much more expensive.
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Ahh the "World Court", where the USA would be tried by Iranian, Syrian, North Korean, even French judges.... The wet dream of every USA hating leftist degenerate....
:rofl
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Originally posted by Otto
Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
Those two alone make him the best President since Ronald Reagan .
I don't use this phrase often but in this case I simply feel that I must... F'KIN A BUBBA!! :D :aok
Stay tuned, theres more to come :cool:
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First, This is rubbish....there are SOOOOOO many opportunities for the poor now a days that it makes me sick for somone to sit there and go woe is me I never got to go to college. Grants loans scolorships affirmative action.
Second, I know roofers and construction workers that make a hell of alot more money than a college grad (being broad there I know) and even those people have SOOOOOO many opportunities to get a degree through night school and such.
I dont really know were to start on nexus. He's obviously been brain washed or somthing....or maybe...GW pissed in his cherios...thats gotta be it.:lol
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Ahem,
The idea that only the children of the rich can go to college is a crock. The idea that only the children who have parents that can afford to send them to college is a crock.
I started college in 71, My father died of complications from TB more than 11 years before. I grew up on the remnants of his VA and social security benifits. I applied for multiple scholarships after making DAMN sure my grades in HS were up to par. I had the honor roll for every semester but the first two.
I got a scholarship for the first 2 years of college and a small grant for books / lab fees the first year. After my freshman year I did the only thing that kept me in school. I got a job. I worked gas stations and pushed a broom. Later I got a really great student job. I worked every other night and weekend in a mortuary. I did that for almost 3 years. After that I was a security guard until I graduated after 4.5 years of college. I was also in ROTC and that helped pay as the student gets to the third and fourth year the ROTC program pays you a minor amount for 9 months of the year.
I saved my money and had my own place as well. I paid all my own expenses including car and insurance. My entire college education cost my mother $50.00 as she helped me buy books one semester. I paid her back at least $50.00 out of every paycheck I got for over 20 years.
After I retired I went back to school and got a Masters. Again I was able to get funding. After becoming very disenchanted with teaching school I decided to get my A&P and work on planes since I have always loved flying and it makes owning my own that much cheaper.
Don't try to tell me there are no oportunities to get scholarships and grants. I got 2 grants to help pay for my A&P while most of the students simply *****ed about how hard it was to fill out the forms. More than half of the scholarships available went unused as no one applied. The guy in class that *****ed the loudest about school costs had been unemployed for over a year but he still wouldn't apply for a scholarship, even after some of us showed him a couple he qualified for.
If you want to go to school get off you dead bellybutton and work for it. The world does NOT owe you a living and neither does this country. It just gives you the oportunity to go to school. It's up to you to get an education. The only person holding you back is the one in the mirror. If you can't convince him / her that it's important then just STFU and go pout in the corner.
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I couldn't agree more, you want it, work for it.
You want a car? Work for it.
You want a college degree? Work for it.
You want a high paying job with good benny's? Work for it.
You want a nice house in a good neighborhood? Work for it.
Want to put your kids in a nice school and buy them Nintendo games, Faith skateboards, Etnie clothing, flight sims and CH combat sticks :D , music CD's, jewelry and RC cars? Work for it.
Want to complain because I have all of the above and you think it's unfair? Piss off.
My parents gave me nothing but the desire to continually improve myself, the rest was up to me.
Darnit Mav....ya went and got me all peeved at work.... :p
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I find the whole rich evil people argument kinda wierd. When my family came to the USA we were living 5 people in one apartment and money was tight - in fact my father got laid off just days before he got the rest of us to America. But he worked hard and now he has money and can afford to pay my schooling and that of my sister. Did he just get this money from out his butt? No he worked for it because his goal was for him and his children to have a better life than before. And you know what, growing up in Yugoslavia before where it was sometimes difficult to buy new school clothes and shoes for us kids I dont feel one bit guilty.
The world is out there, it's full of opprtunity you just gotta grab em... And frankly I dont mind one bit I dont have to suffer the privations of my youth any longer and even moreso those that my father had to endure.
God Bless America!
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The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party.... where someday you too can make up rediculous stories that some people will actually think make a point." Then they hugged as the daughter thought how she was ever going to tell her dad that she was pregnant, and it was one of those guys on the basketball team! But which one?
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The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party.... where someday you too can make up rediculous stories that some people will actually think make a point." Then they hugged as the daughter thought how she was ever going to tell her dad that she was pregnant, and it was one of those guys on the basketball team! But which one?
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Since the dear girl was both a california blonde AND a democrat she couldn't possibly narrow down the responsible boy out of the entire varsity team.
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hey maverick..................... .