Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on October 26, 2003, 09:45:04 PM

Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Citabria on October 26, 2003, 09:45:04 PM: the front windscreen proportions are correct in the current old versions of the 109 in ah but in the new AH2 version the front window is a very narrow square instead of a wider rectangle.

minute as it may seem but this is what every 109 pilot sees all the time when playing and before making any more 109s could you please adjust it? this has an effect on gunery and tracking targets andmakes the new ah2 109 more difficult to shoot with than the current ah1.0 109s

(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg0519.jpg)

(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg0285.jpg)

(http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/luukk2.jpg)
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: moot on October 26, 2003, 11:03:55 PM: shouldn't use pictures from a pov off the pilot line of sight.
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Biggles on October 27, 2003, 02:06:24 PM: Quote
Originally posted by moot
shouldn't use pictures from a pov off the pilot line of sight.

That's a moot point.

:D
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Citabria on October 27, 2003, 07:23:57 PM: look at all 3 pictures
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: oboe on October 28, 2003, 12:50:45 AM: I think it was Cit who pointed out the error in the current F6F-5 windshield - I hope that error is fixed as well. The front windscreen in the F6F-5 should be taller....
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: LLv34_Camouflage on October 28, 2003, 08:34:02 AM: (http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/photo/planes/bf109/mersu_ohjaamo3.jpg)

Camo
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Citabria on October 28, 2003, 02:53:53 PM: I've found other minor stuff on the 109g10 but the front windscreen is the bigest thing that needs to be right.

the current windscreen on the ah2 g10 makes already difficult gunnery even harder and situational awareness is greatly reduced with the windscreen being more narrow than it should be
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Citabria on October 28, 2003, 02:59:13 PM: yes oboe. to me as much as I like the other details on planes to be right the most inportant part of a 3d cockpit is a correctly proportioned front windscreen because thats what everyone looks at all the time when flying their favorite plane.

every kill you make is looking out the front window.

now the g10 looks awsome now. the rear canopy is excellent. the textures are great.

sure they forgot the put the streamlined pods on the sides for the 12.7mm guns and the air intake is funky but it captures the look of the 109 very well! from an external point of view.

from an internal point of view the 109 cockpit looks great everywhere except on the proportions of the front window.

camo just posted great reference pic of the dimensions of the windscreen.
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Replicant on October 28, 2003, 03:08:21 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Citabria
is greatly reduced with the windscreen being more narrow than it should be

I've had to move the seating position forward on many planes to give a more realistic sitting/visibility view. The AH view is someone sat back which would give the impression of the 109 windscreen being more narrow, or am I misinterpretting what you're trying to say Citabria?
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Batz on October 28, 2003, 03:08:54 PM: Look at the canopy bars themselves, they are rather thick. They take up most of that space from the middle.

look at camos pic themn look at the ah2 frames.
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Citabria on October 28, 2003, 03:12:19 PM: i just think the old g10 as blocky as it was did a better job representing the 109g10 windscreen
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Siaf__csf on October 31, 2003, 01:44:34 PM: Comparison of AH2 G10 and camos G2 chickenpit

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/464080/mersu_ohjaamo31copy.jpg)
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Siaf__csf on October 31, 2003, 01:46:16 PM: Looks like that even that the screen capture was taken with view closer than camos pic, the front end of the chickenpit is much narrower than the original.
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Citabria on October 31, 2003, 05:09:20 PM: gunsight should also be closer to the center
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Yeager on November 01, 2003, 03:02:50 AM: Yes, these things are important to us older "Hi-Fidelity" geeks (People over 13) but Cit, you should also ask for accurate gauges.

Damn LLv34, I thought for a brief moment that I was looking at a screenshot of IL2FB (Seriously)....nice photo :D
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Citabria on November 02, 2003, 12:04:21 AM: to hell with the gauges i wanna accurate field of vision from my 109 thats the bottom line
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Yeager on November 03, 2003, 01:34:59 PM: I think we could kill two stinking birds with one stone and even capture some more business:

No Cockpit!!!

:aok
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: john9001 on November 03, 2003, 02:45:54 PM: in all planes the "zoom" view is the pilots normal view, the "unzoom"(default) is a wide angle view to give you a wider field of view.
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Octavius on November 03, 2003, 03:13:32 PM: zoom view? What is the default angle of viewing area? It's variable.

It's impossible to see what a pilot sees when in an actual cockpit with a 2D monitor. Isnt normal human vision capable of seeing 220 degrees? It'd be cool if everyone had a mini-IMAX screen for a flight sim.
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: DFbarrel on November 06, 2003, 01:57:58 PM: It would be very cool if everyone had their own imax screen octavious :rofl that'll never happen
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: NATEDOG on November 12, 2003, 01:42:29 PM: here ya go Cit..... a full two inches wider.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/natedog/1091.jpg)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/natedog/1092.jpg)
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Westy on November 12, 2003, 01:56:52 PM: "here ya go Cit..... a full five point OH eight centimeters wider."

Woo hoo! And this could only mean metric gauges are next!!
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: NATEDOG on November 12, 2003, 02:29:56 PM: ?
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 12, 2003, 03:03:55 PM: Thanks NATEDOG!!!!! That loos fantastic! :)

May I ask one more thing? Can you please color all the inside canopy frames dark gray/black like we have in AH1 - this was the color on all 109s interiors after 1940. :)

The color was called RLM66.

Here is pretty good sample.

(http://www.flugzeugwerk.net/Dateien/rlm66.jpg)

And again thanks a lot for the windshield adjustment. :)
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Wmaker on November 12, 2003, 03:31:48 PM: Simply beautiful NATEDOG!!! :D :aok

When I first got the beta I thought there was something wrong with the cockpit but couldn't put my finger on it, looks a lot better WTG!!

I hope this little suggestion of mine doesn't drive you up the wall 'cause us nitpicks. :)

About the layout of the gauges...

As it is now the altimeter is one of the "smaller size" gauges and is located where the manifold pressure gauge is in the real plane. In this new 109 cockpit I like to keep my view saved fairly close (so that I can just see the lowest part of the lowest line of gauges...no trim indicators or the clock). At least in the current beta when you move your POW so close the gunsight blocks your view to the altimeter and you have to constantly move your head to see it completely. So I suggest to switch places of the current RPM-indicator and altimeter positions. This would make altimeter bigger as you view it a lot more than RPM-indicator and it would also be in an easier place to see. :)

...Or a bit bigger suggestion. This is to get as historical instrument layout as possible to the 109s. :)

1. To move altimeter in place of the current speed indicator.

2. To move speed indicator to the place of the current RPM-indicator.

3. To move manifold gauge in place of the current altimeter

4. To move RPM-indicator in place of the current manifold pressure gauge.

...I know it's a bit hard to read without a picture in front of you. :)

If anyone has PSP, a bit time and some web space a picture would speak more than a thousand words. :)

This would (except the vertical speed indicator, which 109s didn't have until the K-series) make the instrument layout as historical as possible as you can see from the picture Camo posted. :)

P.S. NATEDOG, did you get the reference material I sent you about the Bf109G-2? ;)
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Sikboy on November 12, 2003, 03:53:20 PM: lol.

-Sik
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Waffle on November 12, 2003, 04:07:11 PM: RLM 66 (schwarzgrau) and RLM 02 (Grau) were both used as interior paint. Also Along with RLM 01 (silber)

1936 -

"Internal Components of aircraft: Shade of top coat: Grey 02"

1938 -

The insides of aircraft were painted Grau 02 with RLM 66 on the insrument panel

1941 -

same as above, but cockpits with glazed canopies had interior walls painted in RLM66 to"protect against dazzle" (i presume dazzle means glare)

1942 -

To save raw materials the majority of the interiors spaces were left unpainted. The cockpits were painted with one coat of RLM 66 instead of the normal two coats. Basically the landing gear compartments, hatches and access points were left in raw aluminium

1944 - Lack of resources changes alot.....

"for these reasons, the paints industry has with immediate effect been prohibited from producing aviation lacquer 7121 (or 7122) in shades of RLM 66 or 02......."
"the aircraft industry is hereby prohibited from using aviation lacquers 7121.02 and 66 or 7122.02 and 66, naturallly after all existing stocks have been used up."

This brings the story of RLM 99...basically 99 is the color that is not important...so at the end of the war...who knows what color the cockpits were in the late model planes. ....The RLM 99 didn't comply with the standards for painting, but due to lack of resources for rlm 02 and 66....the RLM 99 was not complained about or was not important enough to worry about.

Check out "Luftwaffe Colours 1935-1945" by Michael Ullmann....
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Westy on November 12, 2003, 04:15:04 PM: "?"

NM. It sucks to explian a sucky joke.
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: NATEDOG on November 12, 2003, 04:15:26 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Wmaker
P.S. NATEDOG, did you get the reference material I sent you about the Bf109G-2? ;)

did you send it recently? if so, then no.
send it to nathanm@hitechcreations.com
I'll see about changing the gauges.
Title: On a Luftwaffe side note
Post by: Waffle on November 12, 2003, 04:20:53 PM: I tried editing a few gauges in photoshop to look like authentic GE gauges. They looked pretty cool. Only problem is that they'd show up on US or other nationality planes also. I don't know how hard it would be to rename or add extensions for accurate guages for each nationality, but sure would be cool.

Even if HTC didn't do artwork for them..having a "GeAltimeter" file and so on for the community to design for download would be nice.

Like I said....not sure how hard or time consuming it would be to have gauges set up for different nationality plane sets.

Oh yeah... and have the instrument bezels be country authentic....and also editable

:)
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Charge on November 13, 2003, 07:04:39 AM: Check this out.

http://www.jannousiainen.net/galleries/tikkakoski/storage/123-2350_IMG.JPG

-Charge+
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Wmaker on November 13, 2003, 09:34:51 AM: Quote
Originally posted by NATEDOG
did you send it recently? if so, then no.
send it to nathanm@hitechcreations.com
I'll see about changing the gauges.

Great news on the gauges!! :D :D

I sent the material to support@hitechcreations.com about three weeks ago. I did get a return reciept that it had been recieved. I think the return reciept info said in went thorugh the support mail to skuzzy's address.

I'll sent it again directly to your address. ;)
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: LLv34_Camouflage on November 13, 2003, 10:11:47 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Charge

(http://www.jannousiainen.net/galleries/tikkakoski/storage/123-2350_IMG.JPG)

Good pic! Please note the diffraction of light through the thick armour glass, which makes the vertical bars seem thinner!

There was a very good discussion on the same topic on the IL2FB message board regarding the FW190 view.

Camo
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Citabria on November 15, 2003, 10:08:30 AM: thanks natedog!!!!!

seriously appreciate it it seems small but 109 dweebs will be very thankful for the accuracy :D
Title: HTC please check the proportions of the 109 front windscreen before making variants
Post by: Citabria on November 15, 2003, 10:26:00 AM: btw thx for doing the gear pods on top of the wings :)

they a bit large but what the hell close enough :D
Title: Thank you NATEDOG!!
Post by: Wmaker on December 03, 2003, 11:31:08 AM: Thanks for moving the gauges to more historical layout!! :) :) :aok