Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on October 26, 2003, 10:29:23 PM
-
(http://hsfeatures.com/images/bf109g10ss_3.jpg)
our g10 dosnt have the + crosses on top of the wings
-
Its the small things in the past that make people wh.....
-
wont this be fixed when new skins are introduced?
-
It's also missing the swastika, as are all German planes in AH1.....
I'm not a nazi, but I am interested in realism. And I don't care if the Germans have some stupid law that says they can't own swastikas because I'm not a German, nor are 99% of the people in the world. So I don't see why the rest of us should be penalized for some law that applies only to Germans.
I was involved with the development of the Combat Mission series of wargames. The developer did not put swastikas on the skins included on the CD, because they wanted to be able to sell the games in Germany. HOWEVER, they have a site that hosts player-made skins that DO have the swastika on them. That way, players who want realism can have them. If the Germans want to break their own law, they can at their own risk; otherwise, they're stuck with the "Teutonically Correct" version.
So when we're able to make skins for AH2, I think HTC should follow the same course. The stock skins should not have the swastika so the German customers can get the game. However, there should be no problem with hosting player-made skins that have swastikas on them. Maybe the skin-makers can send in 2 versions, with and without. But IMHO not having swastikas for non-Germans is just gay.
-
i agree with bullet, i like realism, the swastika on the tail was like a trade mark of german aircraft at the time, the thing i dont see is, why should the japanese have the red sun on their airplanes in AH? They did alota bad watermelon too, alota countrys did alota bad watermelon at the time its just how the war went and some crazy peoples mistakes,why should the people who wana see realism and an actual realistic look on their plane be penalised when tons of the other countrys did horrible crap also. Im not saying make it so everyone has to have a swastika on their plane, i mean like a download or somethin so if you want it you can download somethin and it makes it visible to you.:confused: Also this isnt a whine, i could care less wheather it ever happens ill still play AH, just an idea for those who would like to see it.
-
Think it's something to do with publishing the 'swastika' in certain European countries, such as France, Poland, Germany etc., where I believe it is illegal to be displayed. I think boxed games are different for those countries (with no swastika) and since AH is a world wide game there have to be compromises.
-
Originally posted by Replicant
Think it's something to do with publishing the 'swastika' in certain European countries, such as France, Poland, Germany etc., where I believe it is illegal to be displayed. I think boxed games are different for those countries (with no swastika) and since AH is a world wide game there have to be compromises.
That's what I was saying. There are ways around the gay Euro revisionist laws, which other game companies are using. The company provides the stock game in "Teutonically Correct" form without swastikas. But at the same time, it allows players the option to use player-made skins that DO have the swastika. That way, the rest of the world isn't penalized by the idiots of Europe, and those Euros with balls and dedication to historical accuracy can flout their stupid law at their own risk.
-
I wish the UK could just move itself away from Europe...
-
Originally posted by BenDover
I wish the UK could just move itself away from Europe...
Unfortunately, to paraphrase the Beatles, Chuck Berry, and several others....
Well they shake and shimmy and
Change their money
Now they whine and each blame
One another
Bend over BenDover
The EU's here to stay
-
**** the EU.
-
lol:D
-
Isn't UK the biggest aircraft carrier in the world? They can move themselves away from the port (Europe) anytime:)
-
Originally posted by Citabria
our g10 dosnt have the + crosses on top of the wings
HT just dont set cowl gun convergence like that shown ................
-
It's because the swastika actually represents an ideology no one wants to publicize, rather than just an abstract politico-military force.
-
Before the nazis stole it, wasnt the swastika a good luck charm for many people and cultures? And explain to me why the jap planes should have the Red Suns on them when they did just as much bad ****, rape of nanking tons and tons, IMO just a small step below the germans. I think is should be put on but dont really care if it is, i still think its BS to have other symbols on other countries aircraft that did very similar stuff to the nazis and leave out the swastika.
-
Originally posted by BenDover
I wish the UK could just move itself away from Europe...
same :)
-
Its the small things in the past that make people wh.....
This, I won't comment.
And I don't care if the Germans have some stupid law that says they can't own swastikas because I'm not a German, nor are 99% of the people in the world. So I don't see why the rest of us should be penalized for some law that applies only to Germans.
Are you serious, did you put in any effort to understand?
But IMHO not having swastikas for non-Germans is just gay.
Hmmm... you ARE serious.
That way, the rest of the world isn't penalized by the idiots of Europe, and those Euros with balls and dedication to historical accuracy can flout their stupid law at their own risk.
Don't even need to comment this...
It's because the swastika actually represents an ideology no one wants to publicize, rather than just an abstract politico-military force.
Ahh, good! I was starting worry...
It is a good thing that people and companies avoid the swastika. I personally don't feel a thing when I see it, but I understand that it affects many. I would have left this post alone if the viewpoint wasn't put forth so... clumsily. I'm glad some of you are into historical accuracy, maybe some historical sensibilities are in place?
Try again
-
Sorry man ... love ya .... but your swastika campaign is gettin' really old. The reason(s) for HTC not to portray it are clear and well known. I don't think it's a "dream" worth whipping a dead horse over. :cool:
-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its the small things in the past that make people wh.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This, I won't comment.
I was talking about the crosses on the wings you ****ing **** tard, don't drag me into a ****ing swastika debate!!:mad:
DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS IDIOT!
-
I may have misunderstood you, I apologize.
How was I supposed to understand it?
-
then briefly reiterate my viewpoint adequately.
-
I'm totally lost...
Dunno how to understand you guys (obviously).
Dunno if you got me.
Forget it
.
.
.
-
Originally posted by jodgi
I may have misunderstood you, I apologize.
How was I supposed to understand it?
Ermm, maybe because the thread started about the white +s on the wings, not the nazi swastika on the tail, which bullethead changed it to.
-
I only meant to comment the swastika issue...
You were never meant to be dragged in.
-
jodgi said:
Are you serious, did you put in any effort to understand?
Understand what? The real planes had swastikas. If you are attempting to make realistic copies of them, then the copies should have swastikas. If you do NOT do this, then by are ACTIVELY taking a side, the side of the revisionists. And you are allowing the rest of the world to be repressed by a stupid law that has no power over anybody but the idiots who passed it.
The correct course is to allow the sane people in the world to see history as it was. If others don't want to, then let them suffer the consequences voluntarily, but do not force their assinine views on the rest of us.
It is a good thing that people and companies avoid the swastika. I personally don't feel a thing when I see it, but I understand that it affects many.
How is it possibly a good thing to distort or even deny the very existence of any historical fact? Do you believe in teaching the lie that swastikas never existed? Do you support the way some idiots scratch swastikas out of photographic negatives? Do you think that you can stamp out an evil ideology simply by outlawing the symbols it used? Do you still fail to see the folly of such courses?
In todays world, we have a number of terrorist groups systematically targeting civilians and even children in despicable atrocities. There are many such, but just to pick an example, consider that many such acts are committed under the Palestinian flag. This is to such an extent that the Palestinian flag now symbolizes to many an ideology as evil as anything the nazis ever did. Even though many who patriotically wave that flag are decent folks who have nothing to do with such acts. Just like in nazi Germany. But given the treatment of the swastika, that shouldn't matter. Thus, why don't we outlaw the Palestinian flag as well? That seems a LOT more relevant in today's world than outlawing the symbol of a regime that's been dead and gone for over 1/2 a century.
I would have left this post alone if the viewpoint wasn't put forth so... clumsily. I'm glad some of you are into historical accuracy, maybe some historical sensibilities are in place?
Sensibilities? I had relatives who fell foul of the nazis. I've had friends who've fallen foul of various terror groups. But outlawing the symbols used by those groups certainly won't bring any of them back, nor will it magically erase those evil groups from the earth. All such an action does is make things more difficult to the rest of the world, by shrouding the past in illusion.
As for being "clumsy", I defy you to find anything more clumsy than accepting all the follies and idiocies behind the anti-swastika laws just to be seen as being sympathetic to the minority of fools who enacted them, when really you "don't feeling a thing" about the symbols themselves.
Now, to answer somebody else... if HTC's reasons for allowing the stupid anti-swastika German/Euro laws to trump what we in the US can do are "clear and well known", then please point me to them. I've never seen their official line on this.
-
What? Are you afraid you're gonna forget that Nazi Germany plastered the swastika on everything not moving and most things that were if you don't see several examples of in in AH everyday? Sorry, bud .... I don't see a whole lotta value in the campaign. *ShruG*
You don't know HTC's official line on Germany's anti-Nazi symbology law? As accurate as the skins are .... except for one thing? Are you going to quit if you don't get your swastika?
It's respect for an international customer base. Why in the world should HT cater to the dozen or so swastika-heads in the game community when doing so loses hundreds (and thousands of potential) customers overseas?
The swastika and other Nazi symbols aren't going to be forgotten if it's not portrayed in Ace's High. The laws in Germany allow for images used in education and historical exhibits. When Ace's High becomes part of the school curriculum there or (for some odd reason) ends up an historical exhibit that is considered directly related to the Nazi regime ... then HT's options are more open. Until then, let's pretend we see swastikas everywhere in AH. :D
-
Skuzzy,
If this one dont fit the criteria for a lock then im lost...
:confused:
-
Nothing like a a guy missing totally the point of the thread and fixated on 50 cm² missing black paint ...
-
Arlo said:
You don't know HTC's official line on Germany's anti-Nazi symbology law?
No, I don't, because I've never seen a post by an HTC person explaining it. If you can show me a post about it, feel free to post a link.
It's obvious their position so far has been to not have swastikas because they want to sell the game in places like Germany. Thus, unfortunately they've had to keep swastikas off their art, despite historical fact, just like everybody else who makes games these days.
HOWEVER, with the ability to have player-made skins in AH2, there now exists the possibility of making accurate skins be an OPTION. That's the best of both worlds. The silly Euros can do without, and the rest of the world can have accuracy. What's wrong with that? It's a strategy other game companies use, without problems to my knowledge.
It's respect for an international customer base. Why in the world should HT cater to the dozen or so swastika-heads in the game community when doing so loses hundreds (and thousands of potential) customers overseas?
You got this bassackwards. The laws in question apply only to a minority of the players. So why should the majority have to have their historical accuracy compromised as a result? What about respect for the truth? Why does everybody have to cater to the revisionist views of a few? If the swastika is an option with only player-made skins, then everybody can be happy. If you can't legally have it, or don't want it, then don't download the skins with it. OTOH, if you think it should be on a skin because it was in real life, then you can do so as well.
-
Originally posted by Bullethead
HOWEVER, with the ability to have player-made skins in AH2, there now exists the possibility of making accurate skins be an OPTION. That's the best of both worlds. The silly Euros can do without, and the rest of the world can have accuracy. What's wrong with that? It's a strategy other game companies use, without problems to my knowledge.
No option ,never.
Why will you ask ... it's simple : as a stupid and silly , taking the side of the revisionists European I want YOU to be pissed for a long time.
I was about to make a constructive post about the law but I'm too pissed by your attitude.
So instead I engage you do do a search in this BBS about the swasticka and perhaps instead of pretending you are the only one being right you will understand the purposes of theses laws.
-
Bullethead.
Do you play the game?
If you sit in the cockpit you cant see the art on your tail.... If you chase an enemy you cant see the art on their tail....
Why have this debate over something you cant even see 90% of the time?
If you want a cool picture for your squad homepage or something im sure you can use Photoshop or some similar program...
Do you catch my drift?
And by the way, this is a game not an simulator.
Have a good day.
-
Originally posted by Bullethead
It's obvious their position so far has been to not have swastikas because they want to sell the game in places like Germany.
See? I knew you could figure it out without a sledgehammer.
Originally posted by Bullethead
You got this bassackwards. The laws in question apply only to a minority of the players. So why should the majority have to have their historical accuracy compromised as a result?
You assume that the majority of the players who aren't under such a law are rabid over wanting to see swastikas in AH. Most probably don't care. Some probably would be offended. I'd venture to say that the number of players who would sign a petition to put the swastika in AH (and damn the consequences because I'm "protecting everyone's right to historical accuracy in mmogs') are much smaller than the number of players who live in countries with anti-nazi symbology laws.
If you have a problem with the anti-nazi symbology laws in other countries, take it up with them (though I doubt you'd be taken seriously). If you have a problem with HTC respecting those laws ... take it up with HT (still .... same same). If you want sympathy for your "cause" from the AH community ... well I, for one, have none and the more you wave the swastika banner and claim "truth, honesty and freedom for the oppressed online gamer!" ... the less likely I ever will.
Now ..... this thread started out as a comment over white crosses on 109s. I know you saw enough of an opening to hop back up on the soapbox with the megaphone and continue the crusade but since I see more rotten tomatos in the crowd than I hear applause .... maybe it's best to let it either get back on track or die off.