Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JBA on October 27, 2003, 11:09:48 AM
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Issues & InsightsMonday,
October 27, 2003
To Forgive Is Divine
INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY
Aid: Iraq needs $56 billion to rebuild over the next four years. Donors in Madrid have pledged just $33 billion. Somebody will have to dig a little deeper. We know who.
However you tally it, the Madrid donor conference was a big disappointment. The U.S. has had to bear the military burden in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Now, it's being asked to pay most of the rebuilding tab, as well.
The big problem, as usual, is Europe — Germany and France, to be precise. The European Union, with a GDP that's larger than that of the U.S., has offered a pathetic $235 million to rebuild Iraq.
As bad as that is, it's more than either Germany or France could muster individually. Germany is giving a token $130 million. France has basically offered zero. Zip. Zilch.
Contrast that with Britain, Australia and the financially strapped ex-communist nations that make up the "new Europe." They're coughing up aid and contributing troops.
Why so stingy? Both Germany and France say they have problems with the U.S.' lack of specifics about handing power back to the Iraqis. Of course, that argument is utter nonsense.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_162_1067274095.gif)
They know the U.S. doesn't want to stay in Iraq any longer than necessary. The U.S. has made that clear. No, former allies Germany and France have taken just another opportunity to tweak the U.S.
And why not? These days, being anti-American sells well in Germany, where in a recent poll one in five said they believed the U.S. government was behind the Sept. 11 attack, and in France, where a recent best seller charged the Pentagon blew itself up on Sept. 11.
Yet both nations claim they want nothing more than to see Iraq prosper. If so, Germany, France and Russia should forgive Iraq's debts to them. After all, Iraq owes $383 billion in total debt. With a GDP of just $25 billion, it is by far the most indebted nation on earth. Oil revenue isn't enough to cover it; Iraq is bankrupt.
Much of Iraq's debts were rung up by Saddam Hussein's murderous regime. So Iraqis today are paying for the French mirage fighters and Exocet missiles and German machinery that Saddam bought to oppress them and invade their neighbors.
France, Germany and Russia have repeatedly invoked international law as a reason for opposing the U.S. Well, there's also an international law doctrine known as "odious debts." It says the bills run up by a dictator don't have to be paid by those who survived the dictatorship. And that's exactly the case in Iraq.
That law has been invoked to forgive debts for many nations — including Germany after World War II. Time to do the same for Iraq.
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Are you a cut and paste bot too?
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Oh come now, we know that the USA is the only government controlled by business interests. :rolleyes:
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Quit whining. Your government went in disregarding every warning, objection or request of its allies or the UN.
Now you expect the very same countries who you overrun blatantly with your decision, to pay for it?
Get a grip.
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This is as we're giving them a "loan" ?
Kinda ironic, ain't it ?
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The world is pretty lucky to have a superpower like the US around....that's all I can say. The world is lucky that America is the superpower, and not some other country.
Think about that.
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They know the U.S. doesn't want to stay in Iraq any longer than necessary. The U.S. has made that clear.
Huhohohohohoho! I also heard that the new chechen president has been elected democratically :D
No, former allies Germany and France have taken just another opportunity to tweak the U.S.
Heh, 'I won't share my pokemons with you anymore' neo-con's leitmotiv :rofl That's the US by its acts that forced us to take such a stance. Our intelligence services warned you about an islamist plot in 2001, we told you to not to go in Iraq because that'd make the 'flies rushing to the dog ****' effect.
So Iraqis today are paying for the French mirage fighters and Exocet missiles and German machinery that Saddam bought to oppress them and invade their neighbors.
Wheee, hah, hehe, yes, the Mirages had a special radar to track babies and drop 500 L napalm bombs on them. Got a nice picture for ya:
(http://www.kargar.org/images/saddam_rumsfeld.jpg)
The French provided the vectors to kill the civilians, the Americans the poison...So, we're allies after all :D
France, Germany and Russia have repeatedly invoked international law as a reason for opposing the U.S. Well, there's also an international law doctrine known as "odious debts." It says the bills run up by a dictator don't have to be paid by those who survived the dictatorship. And that's exactly the case in Iraq.
Sorry, my parents learnt me that when I broke something, I had to repair it by myself. Have fun, America is making progress everyday in Iraq, looky, iraqis throwing gren... errrrh flowers to their liberators! :)
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Now you expect the very same countries who you overrun blatantly with your decision, to pay for it?
Funny, I think history shows that the USA didnt start WW2, but we paid the cost of rebuilding Europe afterwards to help the people regain their lives.
Ever hear of the Marshall Plann?
The program cost the American taxpayers $11,820,700,000 (plus $1,505,100,000 in loans that were repaid), the Marshall Plan was a rational effort by the United States aimed at reducing the hunger, homelessness, sickness, unemployment, and political restlessness of the 270 million people in sixteen nations in West Europe.
Yeah, it wasn't our idea to start WWII, but we helped pay the rebuilding cost.
I guess countries like Germany (who did start WWII and then accept money to rebuild what they had caused), and France, who rolled over quickly to German domination forget thier not to distant past.
dago
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Isn't one of the main contentions a new resolution turning control over to the U.N.?.. JBA's article doesn't mention that I wonder why?
It's heartwarming to see the right wingers now suddenly want dept forgivness for 3rd world countries ;).. They can be out there protesting with the other hippies the next WTO conference.
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Funny, I think history shows that the USA didnt start WW2, but we paid the cost of rebuilding Europe afterwards to help the people regain their lives.
Marshall plan? You mean the plan that tied the countries that accepted it into taking US military bases on their soil?
With which you essentially bought the loyalty of the countries in the pre-cold war situation as Soviet union all of the sudden posed a threat again? It had nothing to do with good will, it was cold and smart politics utilising the despair of the war theater and the economic advantage of the U.S.
As a result, US created NATO and had a sizeable buffer against the spread of communism in europe. Oh, it probably didn't hurt to be able to put your missile silos on the same continent with the russians, either.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Marshall plan? You mean the plan that tied the countries that accepted it into taking US military bases on their soil?
With which you essentially bought the loyalty of the countries in the pre-cold war situation as Soviet union all of the sudden posed a threat again? It had nothing to do with good will, it was cold and smart politics utilising the despair of the war theater and the economic advantage of the U.S.
As a result, US created NATO and had a sizeable buffer against the spread of communism in europe. Oh, it probably didn't hurt to be able to put your missile silos on the same continent with the russians, either.
Maybe you would have prefered to have had the Soviets rebuild Europe. Can you say Iron Curtain?
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Aid: Iraq needs $56 billion to rebuild over the next four years. Donors in Madrid have pledged just $33 billion. Somebody will have to dig a little deeper. We know who. However you tally it, the Madrid donor conference was a big disappointment. The U.S. has had to bear the military burden in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Now, it's being asked to pay most of the rebuilding tab, as well.
The big problem, as usual, is Europe — Germany and France, to be precise. The European Union, with a GDP that's larger than that of the U.S., has offered a pathetic $235 million to rebuild Iraq.
As bad as that is, it's more than either Germany or France could muster individually. Germany is giving a token $130 million. France has basically offered zero. Zip. Zilch.
huh...us doesnt have to pay most of it...33 billion is over half the cost...learn some math
and why should they pay you more??? they dont agree with the war your lucky to get what you got...in fact since you were all gung ho about how you could deal with it yourself you may as well follow through to the end and pay for it yourself...
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France, Germany and Russia have repeatedly invoked international law as a reason for opposing the U.S. Well, there's also an international law doctrine known as "odious debts." It says the bills run up by a dictator don't have to be paid by those who survived the dictatorship. And that's exactly the case in Iraq.
That law has been invoked to forgive debts for many nations — including Germany after World War II. Time to do the same for Iraq. [/B]
Please tell me why my country pays all the debts of USSR and Russian Empire, I mean ALL the debts, including some that are more then 100 years old, and pays it alone, without any debts left for former parts of Russian Empire or Soviet republics?... Including all the debts made by Czars, "evil communists" and traitors or Western puppets like Gorbachov?...
Nice American logics: we have to pay everything to you, and we have to forgive Iraqi debts, because they can't pay, because some big guy decided it's a good idea to invade and mess up the whole Iraqi economics?... How about "forgiving" all Russian debts? You have won the Cold war, didn't you?
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Originally posted by vorticon
huh...us doesnt have to pay most of it...33 billion is over half the cost...learn some math
and why should they pay you more??? they dont agree with the war your lucky to get what you got...in fact since you were all gung ho about how you could deal with it yourself you may as well follow through to the end and pay for it yourself...
What war do you agree with?
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
It had nothing to do with good will, it was cold and smart politics utilising the despair of the war theater and the economic advantage of the U.S.
1. We most likely kept your sorry bellybutton alive.
2. We definitely kept the free world free from communism.
3. People like you prove daily that it was a waste of money and shouldn't have been done.
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NUKE: Gee well you have a valid point there. You think the russians would have initiated another war in order to conquer europe if the U.S. bases wouldn't have been there?
Or did it maybe just boost the arms race and further increase the risk of a nuclear conflict on european soil, especially after SU responded by an attempt to install icbms to cuba?
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Europe would have been better off without American help. The Soviets would have "rebuilt" everything and everyone would have been much happier.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
NUKE: Gee well you have a valid point there. You think the russians would have initiated another war in order to conquer europe if the U.S. bases wouldn't have been there?
Or did it maybe just boost the arms race and further increase the risk of a nuclear conflict on european soil, especially after SU responded by an attempt to install icbms to cuba?
Im saying that we should have left Europe after WWII and let Russia "rebuild" it. Then you would be happy.
By the way, if US bases had not been there, Russia wouldn't have needed to start any war...they would just take what they wanted.
The US saved you. Be thankfull.
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The world is pretty lucky to have a superpower like the US around....that's all I can say. The world is lucky that America is the superpower, and not some other country.
I used to think like that. Now, after witnessing several low-iq posts by people who think they can act condescending just because they happen to live somewhere, I start to question myself. I'm getting more and more worried about your nuclear arsenal and the growing generation who'se supposed to be responsible for them. :rolleyes:
I just have to keep in mind you don't represent the whole of your nation. U.S. is afterall a large country that shouldn't be judged by a bunch of bad apples.
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Siaf is correct Stalin was a puppy dog and would never hvae dreamed of using his massive army in the middle of the continent to invade and subjegate the rest of europe. Its those evil americans who are responsible for their paranoid stance towards papa stalin. Bad USA - how dare they rebuild and unify a post war western europe, shame on them.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Please tell me why my country pays all the debts of USSR and Russian Empire, I mean ALL the debts, including some that are more then 100 years old, and pays it alone, without any debts left for former parts of Russian Empire or Soviet republics?... Including all the debts made by Czars, "evil communists" and traitors or Western puppets like Gorbachov?...
Nice American logics: we have to pay everything to you, and we have to forgive Iraqi debts, because they can't pay, because some big guy decided it's a good idea to invade and mess up the whole Iraqi economics?... How about "forgiving" all Russian debts? You have won the Cold war, didn't you?
hahem ... not quite true :)
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Siaf is worried about the US nuclear weapons in the future but had no worries whatsoever of Saddams WMD threat in the future....
What a dman idiot you are, just cant help but hate the USA....
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I used to think like that. Now, after witnessing several low-iq posts by people who think they can act condescending just because they happen to live somewhere, I start to question myself. I'm getting more and more worried about your nuclear arsenal and the growing generation who'se supposed to be responsible for them. :rolleyes:
I just have to keep in mind you don't represent the whole of your nation. U.S. is afterall a large country that shouldn't be judged by a bunch of bad apples.
I would bet that my IQ is higher than yours, but that doesn't discount the fact that the US rebuild Europe.
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This thread is turning amusing. I would encourage eveyone to put in their information below their avator at least the country they live in. I am proud to have my county showing in mine.
dago
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Actually I think the Us made a major mistake in helping Iraq by going in and taking out Suddam --We shoulda just told him we dont care if you invade Europe :)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Siaf is worried about the US nuclear weapons in the future but had no worries whatsoever of Saddams WMD threat in the future....
What a dman idiot you are, just cant help but hate the USA....
Yeah, and he doesn't seem concerned about China, Russia, or North Korea . They are the good guys, nothing to worry about there.
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We shoulda just told him we dont care in you invade Europe
LOL, now that is a good one. He certainly could have taken France easy enough. Probably most of the Scandinavian countries too for that matter.
dago
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News flash Grunherz you can't say a word about Saddams alledged WMD before they're found. So, no, I'm not even distantly worried about things that probably weren't there nor were even targeted at me in any way even if they did exist.
Russias economy was shattered after WW2, and US had a major part to the whole country surviving Hitler's assault in the first place. They were struggling to survive which is hardly a position to start wageing another war.
As what goes with your idea of U.S. saving the world with the marshall plan, as in the recent article posted in another thread, finland is a good example of surviving without a dime of marshall money - and paying the war retributions in full while doing so.
What makes you think way larger countries couldn't pull off the same?
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
NUKE: Gee well you have a valid point there. You think the russians would have initiated another war in order to conquer europe if the U.S. bases wouldn't have been there?
Or did it maybe just boost the arms race and further increase the risk of a nuclear conflict on european soil, especially after SU responded by an attempt to install icbms to cuba?
This is a good point.
Aren't you tired of somebody always telling you that Europe was "saved from communism" by their assistance?... If there was no USSR - Americans had to invent it. It was a good reason for blackmailing Europe for almost 50 years.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Quit whining. Your government went in disregarding every warning, objection or request of its allies or the UN.
Now you expect the very same countries who you overrun blatantly with your decision, to pay for it?
Get a grip.
Not really....it's the Democrats in Congress and the Presidential Candidates who make hay with this issue....as far as most in the US see it, we would gladly finish the job for free.
Don't forget, we spend billions here every year from saving species of mold to testing the consistency of ketchup.....we've been wasting money for years in this country...might as well do something that matters for a change.
As to having the permission of spineless backstabbing nations around the world....don't really need it, now do we.
BTW....where might you be from, or are you ashamed to let us all know.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Please tell me why my country pays all the debts of USSR and Russian Empire, I mean ALL the debts, including some that are more then 100 years old, and pays it alone, without any debts left for former parts of Russian Empire or Soviet republics?... Including all the debts made by Czars, "evil communists" and traitors or Western puppets like Gorbachov?...
Nice American logics: we have to pay everything to you, and we have to forgive Iraqi debts, because they can't pay, because some big guy decided it's a good idea to invade and mess up the whole Iraqi economics?... How about "forgiving" all Russian debts? You have won the Cold war, didn't you?
Hmmm last I heard the money "loaned " to you from the US was what you "tried" to use to "pay" your debts......BTW "you" still owe from WWII so pay up.........
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A few more arrests and they'll have their debt paid off.
http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/7261-9.cfm
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
As what goes with your idea of U.S. saving the world with the marshall plan, as in the recent article posted in another thread, finland is a good example of surviving without a dime of marshall money - and paying the war retributions in full while doing so.
I was going to tell you about my Great Uncle Emil---your Great Great
Uncle--- my grandfather, William Odella's brother
I write to his daughter, Gertrude, who lives in Finland. They lived in
Clinton, Massachusetts, and around 1935 or so, there was great wave by the
communists to have U. S. people come over there (Karelia) to make the "great
society." I guess that was a society where everyone prospered. Bless his
heart, My great uncle Emil fell for it. As I have read from books
recommended by Gertrude, the people sold everything they had and used the
money to get to Karelia and I guess whoever got the money, kept some of it.
The Finns, Swedes, etc. who returned were not unusual people, but people
with trade skills. They built brick houses where there was no lumber by
making brick, they had engineers who put in electricity and built dams, etc.
I think you get the idea. Stalin was in charge, a horrible maniacal despot,
probably worse than Hitler because he caused the deaths of more people. The
Finns and Scandinavians built up an area better than what the Russians
had... What was their thank you. The purge!!!!! For no reason really,
except maybe they had come from America and whatever stupid reason someone
like Stalin needs to use, the purge began. People were taken in the middle
of the night and they disappeared. This happened over and over and over
again, and it didn't matter who was taken, fathers, mothers, sons,
daughters, etc. On my first Christmas Eve, December 24, 1937, they came for
Great Uncle Emil. What for? God knows.
My heart breaks for him because he had no idea of what he was getting into
as he and the others were not Communist because at that time they didn't
even know what it meant.
Gertrude tells me they eventually got a death certificate saying he died of
gangrene. When Khrushchev took over, they finally got a death certificate
saying that he was shot in February of 1938. She wrote me that she wondered
if he got gangrene before or after he was shot. The reason my heart breaks
for a great uncle I never knew is that I feel how terrible he must have felt
knowing he brought his family into this - a wife, a daughter, a son.
This was the purge. Gertrude tells me the story is the same for everyone.
I had to order the books she recommended from Superior, Wisconsin, which
were written by a woman she knows who as a child was taken to Karelia by her
father and all of the fates of these poor people was basically the same.
This was sent to me by my cousin Gerri not long ago when we started putting together our family history..
The Finns have always paid their debts--I know because my grandfather sent money back to the "old country" to help pay this off-----so a lot of the money didnt come from Finland itself, it came from Finns living in countrys (USA) that allowed them the chance to repay the debt......
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Originally posted by Boroda
This is a good point.
Aren't you tired of somebody always telling you that Europe was "saved from communism" by their assistance?... If there was no USSR - Americans had to invent it. It was a good reason for blackmailing Europe for almost 50 years.
:rofl :rofl
dude you really have no grasp on reality do you?
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Skuzzyyy we NEED a political forum...
Daniel
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Originally posted by Martlet
A few more arrests and they'll have their debt paid off.
http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/7261-9.cfm
That guy is accused of theft.
Thievs must be placed to jail.
Do you disagree?
The whole Yukos affair is only a media hype to protect "big business". Hodarkovsky will face a jury, and if he's not guilty - they'll release him.
I find it funny, how "liberal" right "democratic" media protects thievs and fights for "human rights" for terrorists. Even more funny is that Hodarkovsky himself said that he'll face the justice and will not run away like Berezovsky, who is a "political refugee" in the UK now, "political accusations" are stealing 2000 cars from VAZ. Next "refugee" can be a well-known terrorist Zakayev. WTG. :mad:
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Originally posted by Udie
:rofl :rofl
dude you really have no grasp on reality do you?
I don't think Europeans were happy having B-52s cruising over their heads 24/7, each carrying 5 hydrogen bombs, and sometimes dropping them down on their villages.
Udie, NATO has proven that it's an agressive block, aimed at Eastern Europe/USSR/Russia, not defencive but agressive. Our attempts to defend lasted for 50 years, but we failed - and you can see the result.
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Originally posted by Boroda
That guy is accused of theft.
Thievs must be placed to jail.
Do you disagree?
The whole Yukos affair is only a media hype to protect "big business". Hodarkovsky will face a jury, and if he's not guilty - they'll release him.
I find it funny, how "liberal" right "democratic" media protects thievs and fights for "human rights" for terrorists. Even more funny is that Hodarkovsky himself said that he'll face the justice and will not run away like Berezovsky, who is a "political refugee" in the UK now, "political accusations" are stealing 2000 cars from VAZ. Next "refugee" can be a well-known terrorist Zakayev. WTG. :mad:
You're right. The Putin regime hasn't targeted the Russia's anti-putin oligarchs and confiscated their wealth to fund their administrations.
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Am just curious Martlet..please take no offense, but how many bumper stickers are on your car?
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Originally posted by Boroda
I don't think Europeans were happy having B-52s cruising over their heads 24/7, each carrying 5 hydrogen bombs, and sometimes dropping them down on their villages.
Udie, NATO has proven that it's an agressive block, aimed at Eastern Europe/USSR/Russia, not defencive but agressive. Our attempts to defend lasted for 50 years, but we failed - and you can see the result.
I guess I've seen everything now. A Soviet claiming to be the victim. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Martlet
You're right. The Putin regime hasn't targeted the Russia's anti-putin oligarchs and confiscated their wealth to fund their administrations.
Yes, it is so.
Unfortunately, they didn't confiscate a single bit of stolen property. I mean of property that is proven to be stolen. In Lebedev/Hodarkovsky's case it's a mining factory at Kola peninsulla. When they "privatized" this factory they had to invest $250M into social programms, but they just forgot to do it (nice, not investing into their own property), and kept on "milking" it.
Unfortunately again, all this Yukos case started only because elections are coming... :(
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Originally posted by aztec
Am just curious Martlet..please take no offense, but how many bumper stickers are on your car?
I have a AAA sticker on the jag, and an American flag on the bimmer.
That's it. Is that your side gig? selling bumper stickers online? Sorry, not interested.
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Rofl ...nope not a sticker salesman but judgeing by all your signatures I was just curious if you were one of those people who felt some need to plaster all of their philosophies on the back of their car.
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Originally posted by AKIron
I guess I've seen everything now. A Soviet claiming to be the victim. :rolleyes:
It's not as funny as an American saying he is afraid of Russian invasion.
How many times continental US have been invaded? Now compare it to Russian experience in last 1000 years (since we adopted Christianity) and think if we have to believe in peacefull intentions of our Western neighbours.
BTW, can someone finaly explain me why NATO needs bases in Estonia and builds long-range radars there, that can cover all the airspace of North-Western Russia? Maybe they built it against Finland?...:confused:
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Originally posted by Boroda
I don't think Europeans were happy having B-52s cruising over their heads 24/7, each carrying 5 hydrogen bombs, and sometimes dropping them down on their villages.
Udie, NATO has proven that it's an agressive block, aimed at Eastern Europe/USSR/Russia, not defencive but agressive. Our attempts to defend lasted for 50 years, but we failed - and you can see the result.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
oh man you are classic.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Udie, NATO has proven that it's an agressive block, aimed at Eastern Europe/USSR/Russia, not defencive but agressive. Our attempts to defend lasted for 50 years, but we failed - and you can see the result.
Yeah, the result is that Warsaw pact countries are now free, as well as many of the Soviet republics and Germany is reunited , with the former East Germans finally knowing what it's like to be able to leave their country if they choose ( without being shot)
Have some more Vodka. I like the results.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Yeah, the result is that Warsaw pact countries are now free, as well as many of the Soviet republics and Germany is reunited , with the former East Germans finally knowing what it's like to be able to leave their country if they choose ( without being shot)
Have some more Vodka. I like the results.
You don't think the fall of the Warsaw pact had more to do with the fact that communism as an socio-economic system doesn't work?
And Eastern Europeans... look over the iron curtain as the posperous West and were envious of their standard of living... and wanted to have the same prosperity?
And as the old guard died... and the government was replaced by eastern Europeans that wanted a different way of life ....
so it has nothing to with perastroka... and glastnost... and Poland's prosperity after it broke away.. and Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania's prosperity after they broke away and became free markets.
No... that would make too much sense.
I do believe it must have been all the nuclear bombs that were never dropped that changed the minds of millions... Sure... that's the ticket... let's buy more bombs!
Perhaps we can change the minds of the Chinese's too..
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^ hmm I remember gorby saying something about it was Reagan. But that couldn't be right because everybody knows the Soviets were better than some idiot actor Republican.
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Originally posted by aztec
Rofl ...nope not a sticker salesman but judgeing by all your signatures I was just curious if you were one of those people who felt some need to plaster all of their philosophies on the back of their car.
how many do I have?
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
No... that would make too much sense.
Unlike you with your half baked arguments. Heck, you don't even argue, you simply spout off things seemingly at random.
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Originally posted by Boroda
It's not as funny as an American saying he is afraid of Russian invasion.
How many times continental US have been invaded? Now compare it to Russian experience in last 1000 years (since we adopted Christianity) and think if we have to believe in peacefull intentions of our Western neighbours.
BTW, can someone finaly explain me why NATO needs bases in Estonia and builds long-range radars there, that can cover all the airspace of North-Western Russia? Maybe they built it against Finland?...:confused:
No but maybe Finland wanted it because they were afraid of the soviet union?
btw it was the soviet union that built the wall and mined the space in-between and shot anyone trying to leave the country--I dont recall anyone from the west side being shot trying to get INTO the soviet union? except a spy or 2----
What I find disturbing is that you know the wall was built to keep people IN --not to stop any invasion.....and act like it wasnt ever there.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Yeah, the result is that Warsaw pact countries are now free, as well as many of the Soviet republics and Germany is reunited , with the former East Germans finally knowing what it's like to be able to leave their country if they choose ( without being shot)
Have some more Vodka. I like the results.
Well, I look at this problem from the different side of former Iron Curtain.
East Germans surely can leave Germany, but for the majority of exUSSR population borders are closed again - this time from YOUR side. And US still has sanctions against Russia for not letting Jews emigrate (!!!).
Majority of the population from former Soviet republics want to live in USSR again.
We have only one "superpower" now that can now bomb, slaughter and invade independant countries without facing any serious opposition.
Also please notice that Europe didn't become a safer place now - you guys already started a full-scale war in 1999 to support Albanian terrorists. And American troops still are in Europe with all their nuclear arsenal, regardless to the fact that Soviat Army withdrew 10 years ago. Now NATO is spreading eastwards. Must be against China :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by drone
No but maybe Finland wanted it because they were afraid of the soviet union?
There must be something with my English :(
There is no more Soviet Union for 12 years already.
Finland is not a NATO member.
They are building radar stations in Estonia now. In Soviet times we had our own radar sites there. Now our "friends" from NATO build their military bases there. Must be against Finland.
:confused:
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Originally posted by Boroda
Well, I look at this problem from the different side of former Iron Curtain.
East Germans surely can leave Germany, but for the majority of exUSSR population borders are closed again - this time from YOUR side. And US still has sanctions against Russia for not letting Jews emigrate (!!!).
Majority of the population from former Soviet republics want to live in USSR again.
We have only one "superpower" now that can now bomb, slaughter and invade independant countries without facing any serious opposition.
Also please notice that Europe didn't become a safer place now - you guys already started a full-scale war in 1999 to support Albanian terrorists. And American troops still are in Europe with all their nuclear arsenal, regardless to the fact that Soviat Army withdrew 10 years ago. Now NATO is spreading eastwards. Must be against China :rolleyes:
No the borders are guarded more closely to slow down the immigration of so many people trying to leave the former satelite countrys of the former ussr, because their economys were totaly wrecked by russia, they are looking for europe to provide for them what russia could not...Food, clothing-not getting shot for no reason..
Well I suppose that my relatives in Finland are completely wrong when talking (now that they can) to relatives in former ussr countrys, saying that they wish russia would completely leave and would quit stealing everything not nailed down.....
hmm last I counted the Chinese have the largest population in the world and is still considered a "super" power ......
Seems to me that a full scale war was already raging in albania long before we got involved --and only got involved when the "combatants" started killing anything that moved(learned from the Soviet Army)........
But then again my friend I no longer live near the region and do not hate the Russians like a awful lot of my Finnish relatives do..
I would guess it is a matter like the one I posted ealier in this thread---If you would care to read it......
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Originally posted by vorticon
huh...us doesnt have to pay most of it...33 billion is over half the cost...learn some math
IIRC: The $33bn was along the lines of:
$20bn US
$5bn Japan
$3bn-$5bn World Bank (16.8% of which will be from the US)
$4.35bn over three years from IMF (17.5% of which will be from the US)
$1bn Saudi Arabia
$1bn Kuwait
$835m Britain
$300m Spain
$231m European Union
$200m South Korea
$174m Italy
$150m Canada
$32.6m Sweden
$5.9m Belgium
And the shortfall ($23bn) supposedly will be made up the US as well.
Still, at least they get to keep their SUVs for a few years more.
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Originally posted by Boroda
I don't think Europeans were happy having B-52s cruising over their heads 24/7, each carrying 5 hydrogen bombs, and sometimes dropping them down on their villages.
Udie, NATO has proven that it's an agressive block, aimed at Eastern Europe/USSR/Russia, not defencive but agressive. Our attempts to defend lasted for 50 years, but we failed - and you can see the result.
Umm.. maybe I missed this but whom did the US drop Hydrogen bombs on in Europe?
Great job defending eastern europe with a 10 to one tank advantage and 25 to one artillary advantage.. oh, and 3 times as many troops including those evil Americans who btw pump billions of dollars into the host countries. Ya, that makes sense. How about saying Udie, your right..
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We dropped Nucs on Spanish fish, Rabbit.
edit-But I am pretty sure we didn't fly any B52's over EU at any time, much less armed with nucs.
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Thats not what he said... and those fish had it coming.
Baroda, mind getting your facts straight? or am I still missing something?