Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Scenario General => Topic started by: jordi on November 08, 2003, 12:59:34 PM
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We are looking at building a list of potential CO's, XO's and Squad Leaders for upcoming Scenarios.
Go to this List to sign up.
http://events.hitechcreations.com/command.php
By signing up to this list it does NOT Guarantee any actual Command spot in future Scenarios.
The list will be used by the CM's and the CO's that are picked to contact potential command staff candidates.
Thanks,
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Hi Jordi :)
As far as the upcoming Ruhr SCenario goes (I know it's early days still) I'd like to find out some details about how the 2nd TAF will be run with regard to the USAAF's strategy, overall aims of the 2nd TAF/allies etc
TY
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Originally posted by blackwitch
Hi Jordi :)
As far as the upcoming Ruhr SCenario goes (I know it's early days still) I'd like to find out some details about how the 2nd TAF will be run with regard to the USAAF's strategy, overall aims of the 2nd TAF/allies etc
TY
Not sure exactly what you are asking ?
I suppose that all depends on who the CO ends up being and how he wants to run things ?
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Originally posted by jordi
Not sure exactly what you are asking ?
I suppose that all depends on who the CO ends up being and how he wants to run things ?
Basically, will the 2nd TAF have thier own strategy independant of the USAAF ?
Though you may have answered that already :)
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OK - now I understand.
15 Nov 1943 - The 2nd Tactical Air Force (2nd TAF) is formed; this in turn forms part of the Allied Expeditionary Air Force (AEAF), commanded by Air Chief Marshal Sir Trafford Leigh-Mallory, in preparation for the invasion of mainland Europe.
This falls outside the scope of the time frame we are looking at.
We are looking at Summer / Fall of 43 for the time frame.
Does this answer your question ?
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Originally posted by jordi
OK - now I understand.
We are looking at Summer / Fall of 43 for the time frame.
Does this answer your question ?
Yes.. and no :)
I suppose what I'm asking is will the USAAF and the RAF have one strategy and work together OR will the RAF and the USAAF have different strategies and work seperately (more historically accurate)?
:)
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Lets move this over the RUHR Thread.
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Originally posted by jordi
Lets move this over the RUHR Thread.
:)
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will this frame have rescue by gvs or aircraft,a Mulitlife event..or a 1 life thing ??(IMO i like the rescue thing)
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We have not realy looked at it.
The only real rescue option would be the english channel by PT Boat ?
Not sure how we could model the French underground ? :)
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Is this still the forum for command staff?
Hi Jordi and Bike
I'm starting to get "hooked" by the thought of this scenario and how it wil be run > victory points etc.
I hadn't realised, until bike informed me :), that this scenario runs in February... that means it needs to be set out about now IMHO.
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Hi Witch
it's an open forum :) We are at the "designing forum" stage now with it. We will add the side CO's soon and will continue working on datails with them to cover all the issued that may apear.
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Originally posted by blackwitch
Is this still the forum for command staff?
Hi Jordi and Bike
I'm starting to get "hooked" by the thought of this scenario and how it wil be run > victory points etc.
I hadn't realised, until bike informed me :), that this scenario runs in February... that means it needs to be set out about now IMHO.
We HOPE to get as amny issues resolved by DEC 1st.
By then we will have the CO's picked ( Still interested ??? ) and in the the Command only Forum. We will also open up a general Forum with as much info as we have ready to pass out.
JAn will be the REG Time period and FEB will be when the Scenario runs.
3 Frames US Planes - 1 Frame RAF Dusk mission.
We are working on determining how WELL the Allies do based on how well the Bombers do. Bombers will be judged by how many Bombs they AND DO NOT get within a designated CEP ( Circular error of probability ) of each target they hit. The calculation takes into account how many bombers are sent to each target ( 2 per frame usually - 1 bomber group per target ) - how many drop on target - how many getthier bombs withing the CEP - and how many make it home.
Escorts and the LW will have a big influenece on the Bomber result. How well can the Escorts keep the LW away from the bombers ( Lone wolfs chasing the LW down to the deck will jeapordize the bombers success even if they do get the kill ). How well will the LW be able to get through and inflict damage on the bombers before, during and after the Bomb run. How many stragglers will the LW shoot down before they get a chance to make it home safe.
We are working on testing each plane to come up with the best arena settings so that neither side has too much of an advantage or disadvantage. Of course BOTH CO'w sill feel the deck is stacked against them and there is NO WAY we can win ! :)
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Hi Bike/Jordi
As to being interested.. well I am BUT I'd need to know if the following has been sorted..
1, 3 Frames US Planes - 1 Frame RAF Dusk mission.
how will the balance of players be reflected for the RAF frame ? the RAF flew without fighter escorts, in fact they didn't even fly in formations, whereas a USAAF raid would take a few minutes to pass over target the RAF night bombers could take hours, and the number of Luftwaffe nighfighters was REALLY low in comparison.
2, Will the Lutwaffe have RADAR controllers for the 3 "day" frames as well (as was the case)?
3, 1 Bomber group to each target and 2 bomber groups in total.
with regard to number 2 above how dispersed will the USAAF's targets be, I imagine they'll be in the Ruhr area? (I'm thinking of dogleg routes to "throw" the LW Radar controllers off)
4, I applaude the idea of judging succes by the results of the bombers alone and not on attrition of or the number of kills by fighters. BUT, :D , but wouldn't it be better to have an "acceptable" attrition rate of bombers as a victory condition rather than the accuraccy of bombing, remembering that in "formations" individuals can't make their own bomb run but HAVE to drop when the formation leader drops. And, after all, it was attrition that curtailed the range at which the heavy bombers were sent, ie out of escort range which is a "Strategic Victory" for the Germans.
Range of escorts
5a, Will we be having just P47's as USAAF escorts? (hopes so)
5b, Will they have the range to "go to target" or have to stop short (IMHO) this will mean allowing certain drop tanks and not others. And will this range be the same for all frames
5c, will the LW be aware of the USAAF's fighters range, ie will they just wait over target OR will the LW bases be so placed so that this isn't possible, BTW if the LW aren't aware of our targets and the USAAF bombers use dogleg routes and the LW have to have day radar controllers it would mean a pretty accurate recreation of LW tactics and "I" would sacrifice being able to get my fighters as far as the target if the above was the case;).
6, length of frame in hours? (3 hours please)
7, number of fighters and bombers avail to each side?
8, Apologies if these are already answered in another forum/place.
ps, I told you I was getting hooked :)
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Let me ansewr some of them (at work now.. don't have much time)
As to being interested.. well I am BUT I'd need to know if the following has been sorted..
good :)
1, 3 Frames US Planes - 1 Frame RAF Dusk mission.
unoficially yes
how will the balance of players be reflected for the RAF frame ? the RAF flew without fighter escorts, in fact they didn't even fly in formations, whereas a USAAF raid would take a few minutes to pass over target the RAF night bombers could take hours, and the number of Luftwaffe nighfighters was REALLY low in comparison.
no time for detailed answer however we will be looking more for a gaming expirience then into recreating strictly historical values. both sides have to have fun there. Something that i'd like to have accepted by both CO's
2, Will the Lutwaffe have RADAR controllers for the 3 "day" frames as well (as was the case)?
yes. Allies knows where the tagrets are and where the flak sites are in the flak valley. LW have to use 3rd country dar controllers to track the bomb raids. It's a CO's choice about tha tactic they will use.
Range of escorts
5a, Will we be having just P47's as USAAF escorts? (hopes so)
they will use P38's as well... we will limit the p38 usage tho. Historically 38's were used duright the battle of the ruhr but it was the earlier version. Judging from the posts about the difference between versions we see that there is no MAJOR difference that would affect things much.
5b, Will they have the range to "go to target" or have to stop short (IMHO) this will mean allowing certain drop tanks and not others. And will this range be the same for all frames
range will be the same for all frames
5c, will the LW be aware of the USAAF's fighters range, ie will they just wait over target OR will the LW bases be so placed so that this isn't possible, BTW if the LW aren't aware of our targets and the USAAF bombers use dogleg routes and the LW have to have day radar controllers it would mean a pretty accurate recreation of LW tactics and "I" would sacrifice being able to get my fighters as far as the target if the above was the case;).
fuel burn rate will be known so LW command can test the range with no problems (same as Allied command can test how long LW birds can hand up there without refualing). Depending on the targets Allies will or will not have a range to get to target. It'd also depend about the routes and fuel management, engagements and so on. DT's will be required for the Allies to get colse/into a target with the fighters
6, length of frame in hours? (3 hours please)
most likely 3 hours... buffs have to RTB and land
7, number of fighters and bombers avail to each side?
no exact numbers for now as it will depend much on the registered numbers. n umber of the fighters should be equal for both sides. Fighter vs Fighter battels won't get any ponts to the sides
8, Apologies if these are already answered in another forum/place.
soem of 'em ;)
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Originally posted by bike killa
Let me ansewr some of them (at work now.. don't have much time)
no time for detailed answer however we will be looking more for a gaming expirience then into recreating strictly historical values. both sides have to have fun there. Something that i'd like to have accepted by both CO's
Can the bomb aimers see the ground targets at dusk?
yes. Allies knows where the tagrets are and where the flak sites are in the flak valley. LW have to use 3rd country dar controllers to track the bomb raids. It's a CO's choice about tha tactic they will use.
No cockpit DAR for LW, Sounds good :)
they will use P38's as well... we will limit the p38 usage tho. Historically 38's were used duright the battle of the ruhr but it was the earlier version. Judging from the posts about the difference between versions we see that there is no MAJOR difference that would affect things much.
So range won't be an issue for the (few) 38's
range will be the same for all frames
And will the 47's be allowed to make it to target?
fuel burn rate will be known so LW command can test the range with no problems (same as Allied command can test how long LW birds can hand up there without refualing). Depending on the targets Allies will or will not have a range to get to target.
OK, got it
It'd also depend about the routes and fuel management, engagements and so on. DT's will be required for the Allies to get colse/into a target with the fighters
OK :)
6, length of frame in hours? (3 hours please)
most likely 3 hours... buffs have to RTB and land
anything less would be too "tight" imho
no exact numbers for now as it will depend much on the registered numbers. n umber of the fighters should be equal for both sides. Fighter vs Fighter battels won't get any ponts to the sides
Hmm, OK, far enuff and thanx Bike
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Originally posted by blackwitch
Can the bomb aimers see the ground targets at dusk?
yes. i believe so. .targets will be marked by the mossies (many fuel tanks). Of course mossies will have to get there and mark target, but it shouldn't be that hard... everything is possible...
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My research has revealed that the 2 P-38 FG's > 20th and 55th FG's, didn't become operational until October/November '43, isn't this a bit late for the Scenario?
ps, is there another forum where these details should be discussed?
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Well if you agree to be one of the CO's . . . .
;)
We are waiting on getting a General Ruhr Forum created.
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I just saw your other post and replied.
Thanks for the heads up !
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according to my info P38's WERE there :)
details in an hour!
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let's move there :
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102205 :)
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Just come across this forum. I'm not volunteering for anything yet, as I'm waiting to see where the rest of KG2 want to fly. But I'd happily help with the bits that most dont like for either side.
As for finding targets at dusk, I have a suggestion; anyone fancy setting up a H2H arena next weekend (cant do this weekend now, sorry) using, say, the France or Europe terrains, with lighting set as dark as possible. Idea is we pick a takeoff place, pick a target, and fly the route at a constant ground speed between waypoints, and if need be, drop on timing (ie: if we cant see the target, we drop when we know we should be in the right place to make drop). repeat until we have a good idea of its viability.
I think that might help some folk get over their fears about buffing in the dark.
Anyone interested in giving this a go, email me at
esme@nocturnal.clara.co.uk
I'm on a 56K modem, so if anyone interested has broadband, better they host it than me.
Esme
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One thing we will be doing is sending some PATH FINDER Bombers to MARK the target for the main bomber force for the Ruhr Scenario.
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And if by chance the Path finders are destroyed before they complete there mission ?
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*if* they are all down before marking the targets it's a harder job for the buffs to make a drop. also it's a less points for the Allies at the end of the day.
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:D
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Originally posted by jordi
One thing we will be doing is sending some PATH FINDER Bombers to MARK the target for the main bomber force for the Ruhr Scenario.
Ehehe. Aye, I know.... Mossie Mk Vis, that dont even have bombsights... :-)
Personally, I don;t doubt that a good JABOer that is up for it will be perfectly good at target marking even in a MkVI. (although a Ki67 could substitute if a bombsight-equipped plane were wanted for the Pathfinders. Similar performance to the Mossie bombers).
I was merely thinking that perhaps some test runs in H2H might help show doubters that its doable is all. My thinking being that if the main force is confident that they can still make a fair go at the job even if the Pathfinder force fails it'll help morale.
Hmmnn.. will the Pathfinders be doing double duty as intruders harassing LW airfields as well? And... I'm wondering if there needs to be rules against Mossies strafing ground targets at the Main Force target(because the MKIVs that wouldve been used had no guns at all). Or they could just be required to unload their gun ammo before takeoff?
Esme