Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: HaHa on April 29, 2000, 01:39:00 AM
-
Everyone starts out as privates.. as your score grows (succesful missions/kills etc.. you gain in rank).
Privates: listen to their captains (or roam on their own if they wish)
Captains: have privates to control for single missions
Lieutenants: fight and control captains (i.e. multiple missions)
General: control the lieutenants, formulate battle plan etc..
A captain would have subordinates assigned (automatically) to him as they login. He can then assign tasks to those individuals. Upon succesful completion experience points are given (think Chain of Command).
A lieutenant assigns missions for captains. e.g. there might be a NE sector commander and a NW sector commander lieutenant.
A general has final control over the mission system.
As people login they are automatically assigned different command positions depending on their experience level. Once one is at a position they remain there until they logout.
The key point is score/experience will actually mean something. The better you do/more experience you get, the higher you will climb up the ladder and hence have more control over the countries decisions. Yes, it's similar to wwIIonline but a heck of a lot simpler.
[This message has been edited by HaHa (edited 04-29-2000).]
-
While that immediately sounds like a good idea, it has some less than desireable sideeffects. One being a coercion of players into a role they might not wish to have. At times, I enjoy planning strikes and coordinating things, but it's far from always.
I'm not big on authorities either (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif), and the only people I can guarantee I will listen to are my mates in JG2.
Under no circumstances will I follow an order given by someone flying a Spitfire.<BG>
Maybe it is better to keep it informal as it is now - when there's a good number of JG2 squaddies online, for instance, we get some great coordinated attack, all done voluntarily and without feeling a "pressure" to live up to the command responsibility that comes with your rank.
But ranks would be cool. Maybe based on score, but that would make score monging more prevalent, and that's not perfect.
Then again, it might counter the "oh, this is just a sim, I will fight til I get shot down/run outta fuel and ditch and forget about the immersion factor" bit.
Oh, ranting again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
--
StSanta
EAC Underwater Operations Team
"We sunk the Ark II and killed off the dinosarus, woohooo!"
JG2
-
Haha,
An interesting idea you have to create cohesion and goals for a side. A command structure is good if you have a series of like minded people who need to be lead towards a common goal for the good of the country.
Then there are the Rooks I fly with. A bunch of individuals who couldn't agree to what day of the week it was, much less who to attack and bitterly resenting the fact that one might know better than another, (we'd still dive in and clear his 6 if any dastardly knight or bishop tried to shoot him though).
Organisation of the level you mention is probably best left at a squad level. Each has their own CO and command structure. Some prefer a strict military system with the CO passing orders down like you mention. I prefer to have people take the reins as they feel fit and if they like it to keep on at the job. I was the Bomber Commander for the RNZAF in Warbirds for three years. Each week I'd create missions with recon photographs, timings and fuel loads, target assignments and post these up on a web site for the rest of the squadron to read. From these other pilots decided to give it a go and one took over the reins last year when I stopped flying Warbirds to be involved here.
Like I said your idea is interesting but I think that it would be better left at a squad level.
raxx (http://www.geocities.com/raxman.geo/images/skyratsbannersmall.gif)
-
EHHHH! Major General Beefcake has ways of making you talk! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Beefcake (edited 05-06-2000).]
-
just 1 minor question:
In what armed force does a Lieutenant outrank a Captain?
Swoop
[This message has been edited by Swoop (edited 04-29-2000).]
-
And those that fly the most would inevitably become the leaders. Regardless of their leading ability or how effective their tactics are. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Stsanta also had several good points. I to tend to only listen to my squad mates and a few others I have come to respect in this community. Not some kid who is out of school for the summer and logging in a huge amount of hours.
Though I like your idea in part (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I am not sure how to make it work. Raxx is right, better keep it to a squad level where pilots have already agreed to be under some kind of umbrella of authority. If they don't want to be there they can just leave the squad and go to another or fly rouge as long as they want.
I really wonder how it will work in WWIIOL Haha.
-------------------
daddog
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
Snapshots (http://www.ropescourse.org/snapshot.htm)
(http://www.ropescourse.org/cdaddog.jpg)
Where men become friends, and friends become brothers.
-
I can make this simple; anything you want that will enhance your gameplay without taking away from the way I want to play is fine by me.
I well remember some megalomaniacs of WB ACA, and I won't be held under that type of despotic rule. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I'm sure everyone can relate their own experiences from whatever sim you have played.
-
Um, I like the idea sort of...
I think I need to be a commander, not the Cammanding Officer, but maybe the 2nd or 3rd in command.
This is because I have experience reading posts on other BBS's about RAF infantry. Which I thought was a cool job and qualifies me to boss alot of people around. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
Mino
The Wrecking Crew
-
Greetings !!
Don't talk to me about RANKS look at
topic regardind Call sing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
By miself I go where someone need a ....
Mad Bomberor if I found a bunch of
guys trying hard to get a field and they
are well orgonise EX: JG2 guys (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(who need an officer!!)
Be there where it counts and that's it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
------------------
THE ONLY PROPER DEFENCE IS OFFENSE
Best regards gents (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ranker...out!!!
[This message has been edited by RANKER_ONE (edited 04-29-2000).]
-
Ahhh...ummm..I am more quailified than Mino, because I have read those posts more than him...at least twice. Plus it wasn't the RAF infantry it was the RAF Artillery which was formed to support the RAF Submarine force, because they kept loosing too many tanks.
But 4th in command is a more powerful role anyway....You're like Al Haig!! Then you can say stuff like "I'm in Charge HERE!"
Seriously HaHa...this was kicked around another thread too, and I think it has to start at the squad level. If the squads can get together and do co-op type stuff, then the infrastructure for people to join or not join those particular operations should be there.
Cobra
[This message has been edited by Cobra (edited 04-29-2000).]
-
I will fly and die for my fellow Buccaneers, and a few others who have proven themselves.
And sometimes I just want to do my own thing.
eskimo
-
I made a similar suggestion a few weeks ago and found out the meaning of the words anarchy, free-spirit, egomaniac, loner etc.
Bottom line there is no question in the mind of any intelligent individual or student of history that wars aren't won by hotshots going off on their own to do what they want when they want it. However, the only feasible way to do this is within squads. The other night me and a m8 flew 2 B-17's and gave out our presise eta over the attacked field. Within 5 mins. we had all hangars and ack down. Do you think we could get a goon? Think again! No goon and in a bit the field was back up to snuff. My final idea is that if there's anyone here truly qualified to be a military leader he/she should scan their diploma from one of the service academies in the U.S. or a similar institution in another country e.g. Sandhurst and they would then be recognized as capable of leading their sides. Unfortunately, they may find out the meaning of the word "fragging" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Beeger
P.S. I do like the idea of ranks based on proven ability by e.g. the last tour's ratings.
-
Ok a couple things. The option to command is just that, optional. If you log in and it says you can be assigned command of the NE sector do you accept, "Yes or No". If you don't feel like commanding you just say no.
The option to follow is likewise optional. If a captain says, "you've been assigned to my sector, please do blah blah". If you don't want to follow, then you can go do your solo fighting (although most people I know, desparately want some battle to fight in when they login). If you follow the assigned mission you can get experience points and hence "climb" up the ranking ladder.. otherwise you get plain old kill score points that aren't worth anything (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
"The peacetime qualifications for promotion - age and seniority - do not apply in combat"
--- Air Marshal J.E. "Jonnie" Johnson, RAF
"Why let rank lead, when ability can do it better?"
--- Commander Randy "Duke" Cunningham, USN
"In the air, there were no 'generals' or 'colonels'. He who had the most kills, he was the leader. It worked very well in the war."
--- Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, Luftwaffe
Hmmmmmmm.... a theme here? Yup. I react when the voice of reason and expericence speaks in the heat of a fight. Anything else is noise.
I have; as an American, as a Veteran, as a Taxpayer and as a Voter who exercises the franchise learned to question authority. Any authority. Its something of a national prerequiste. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I respect proven experience... but not appointed authority. Ever.
My 2 cents.
Hang
-
nice quotes Hangtime (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
--
StSanta
II/JG2
-
Let's just put General Balo in charge of the Bishs shall we?
-
LOL Rip!... if he fly's fer bish; you'll have another JG/2 recruit in 30 seconds. Me.
Hang
-
*punt*
It would be cool if we could get a HT or Pyro comment here. The rank idea "follows" the wwIIonline concept slightly, but it is also the natural next step for a good online sim. I know one thing for sure.. rank = more addiction = more fun = more $$ for HTC (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
I would love to have this, RW # could be asigned and it would have more of a real life feel to it all. Uping in groups and fighting as a team, rather than all uncordanted. Somtimes it can take forever to capture a feild because no one ups at the same time. I think if we did this more we would have more of a battle front than we have now. Patrol missions, recon and realy good dog fights. It would make me more proud to have feel like i gained somthing from this game. Like being able to learn how to fly with others and plan things out for the good of a country. My two cents
-
SOX
I always thought the same darned thing
man (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Sometime its like your work like hell
for absolutly nothing at all !!
ex:I saw a buch of guys trying to grab field 4 and then because no success (for sure no strategy at all that's why!!) they all stop and whent to another field so..
Sunchaser & I made 2 bomb run = flat field every boddy knows it cause we sent message about it... = NOTHING AT ALL !!!
No goonies nothing !!like it was not important at all the time we spent in the air in our B-17 fk that make me mad as you can't beleive!!!
Each persone fooling around every where on
the dam map and what is the funnyest thing is this .....
You can see one guy by his own bombing a field (some place on the map) and then you see a message ACKS & HANGARS DOWN AT (such field) an you keep looking just to see the reactions of other ha ha ha ha
NO ONE IS MOVING !!they continue fooling around in the air ITS A JOKE MAN !!!this is supose to be a WAR SIM too you know!! (espacialy with tanks and the next patch to come etc..etc..)
For me it is more an arcade game then a war sim (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
So now we stand by in tower and wait to
see if SERIOUS SQUADS (ex:JG2)are working on
a specific field...
(checking the roster to find out if it is them first... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Then all our squad " Mad Bombers " take off and go help them as fast as we can....
(without asking them cause it's a proud bunch of guys and as we pay each month like everyone we want to play lol so we dont want them to say "no thank you we have ower own bomber") ha ha ha ha .....
Too totally tubular bad what's happening now at the main
arena (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
I (and others) realy hope some one will not
only read your & my reply but also talk about it and do something about that situation DAMMIT !!
(sorry about my spelling gents a bit piss. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
------------------
THE ONLY PROPER DEFENCE IS OFFENSE
Best regards gents :)
Ranker...out!!!
-
I agree though - ranks/missions/strategy would greatly benefit the arena.. Give one a reason to get experience and a feeling of accomplishment.
-
Sigh.. no HT or Pyro response - why do the "off topic" threads continue on .. and on .. and on - and the improvement threads just disappear into oblivion ??
-
I'd be happier leaving rank and mission planning at squad level, but then I'm one of those players who feel uneasy at having a rank within a squad other than CO and XO because I feel its a step to far when we I am playing just a game and real pilots have EARNED that rank..but thats just my personal beliefs and I don't disrespect anyone who does use rank in their virtual squad.
That said, rank was used in Warbirds and combined with their scoring system it only rewarded the players who spent the most. AH has a flat rate but such a rank system would punish those good pilots who are good team players and maybe also team leaders who may not rack up enough points to get promotion whereas say somebody who works perhaps part-time or a student who could spent alot more time online but may not be as good or as good a team leader would get rank quicker.
I have found in my time at Warbirds and here that if the person calling for strikes on a base is making good strategic decisions, can listen to suggestions and organise the pilots then the country gets behind that person, squads band together and acomplish their goals without some tin-pot made up dictator barking commands.
------------------
Revvin
249 Squadron RAF
Tangmere Wing
-
Do you really want discussion of this "improvement" haha... I didnt post on it cause it so easy to discredit that I assumed there was no possible way that HTC would implement.
How can you get a better comand system we have. Military comand systems are attempts to codify something that happens naturaly in AH.
Rank systems are more of a buerocratic way to establish what is easialy established through observation in AH land.
You seem to want to encourage county wide coordination and acceptance of goals.
A better way to get this coordination would be if........................... .......
The HTC server issues an offensive and defensive objective to each country.
So each coutry knows where they are headed but the others dont. This would at least let there be some priority to the game. Subtfuge and treachery could be used to try to accomplish the objective to accomplish both offensive and defensive objectives at once would take great coordination. A leader will probably stand out. The leaders of the different squads would coordinate I hope.
These objectives would of course be optional.
Anything that puts more emphasis on score is wrong I think.
-
I totally agree with the idea of a real-time generated OPTIONAL list of missions/objectives, so that there's SOME kind of organization on the online battlefield between the 3 sides (rooks/knights/bishops).
E.g. a mission is generated by someone that says "capture airfield x" with sub-missions within that like "bomb this ack in airfield x", "provide CAP around airfield x", "drop paratroops on airfield x", etc. This overall mission (ie "capture airfield x") becomes the offensive strategic plan for that country (e.g. rooks).
Then any pilot can decide to fly one of the sub-missions if he wants to. When one of the sub-missions is selected, information such as the airfield map location, an exact target picture, waypoints etc is made available to be accessed anytime while in flight.
The most pressing or important missions are highlighted on the optional mission list, e.g. an airfield is ready for capture, but requires paratroop drop for final capture, so the "paratroop drop" mission is highlighted in red or something like that.
But for those who like chaos (and have short attention spans or ADD), they don't select any missions from the mission list and they can fly however or wherever they want.
*ps- who this "someone" will be that determines the strategic plan for that country is debatable, but I guess it could be by vote or agreed by CO's of all the squads in that country, etc. And pilots/squads can decide to ignore it and still do whatever they want if they don't like that plan.
-
My suggestion of course takes into consideration that taking rank or following rank is OPTIONAL. If you don't want to work with/for the country then you don't have to.
However, from playing CK/WB/ and now AH in the last 4 years I have seen one thing - people definitely want something to do and hate not knowing what's going on.
How many times do people login and have to say, "what are we attacking?". How many times do people have to repeat over and over again, "need bomber at XX, need goon at XX".
The mission system should give us the tools to determine leadership/mission goals and other techniques. Sure, one could say the "squad" system that we the users implement is fine (if you're in a squad).. or that the adhoc "yelling on the channel" to start a mission is fine. But it can definitely be improved upon - lets have innovation here!
Rank + mission management is one definite way to improve the arena combat.
-
Shmersh
I was thinking of something totaly random. When one was achieved it is anounced who achieved it, and another objective is created for that country and broadcast to them.
Its just an Idea to try to focus the efforts of a country without "Promoting anyone"
-
Originally posted by Hangtime:
"The peacetime qualifications for promotion - age and seniority - do not apply in combat"
--- Air Marshal J.E. "Jonnie" Johnson, RAF
"Why let rank lead, when ability can do it better?"
--- Commander Randy "Duke" Cunningham, USN
"In the air, there were no 'generals' or 'colonels'. He who had the most kills, he was the leader. It worked very well in the war."
--- Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, Luftwaffe
Some good quotes there!! "Jonnie" Johnson used to live 2 miles from where I live! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Regards
'Nexx'
-
I've been with AH only a short while but been playing multiplayer games for ages. Been in as many clans as there are games too. And frankly I found that ranks in games just don't work. People tend to find ways of increasing their kills or xp and making that their main priority. It takes the fun out of the game. AH is not about who has the most kills but about the fun and comeradery.
I think rank systems should be clan based only.
I do however like to know who is a senior and who is a junior etc etc... So maybe we could get some minor differences in player titles based on time spent in AH or something like that.Altough I'm finding out who are the main characters in this little game I've grown to love. Hard to miss 'm anyway..
-
I don't care if they put in a ranking system, I don't care if they don't. The first time I log onto the main arena and am forced by the host to fly some supreme commander's idea of a good time will be the last time I log on. That just doesn't always fit into my idea of a good time.
When someone asks for a C47, and I am near a base and can replane I will go get the C47 for the run. The minute someone loses it on the country channel and starts berating my team for being incompetent starts me thinking how much more fun it would be to switch sides and kill them. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I have been known to do this. Having no country allegiences has it's benefits. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Not saying this is what is happening with anyone here, but I have seen some guys do this every night, and they cannot figure out why no one will cooperate with them.
-
Dunno gents - have any of you guys ever played a game called "Chain of Command?". Graphically it's really bad, but it is multiplayer and does provide ranks. It is EXTREMELY addicting just for the rank part.
It's NOT that I think people should get rank to boss people around Rank + following is ENTIRELY optional. Sometimes people don't want to go on official missions, and some people never want to follow anyone - they can play AH as they always have. For them who want to work on rank, it gives someone something to strive for.. instead of some meaningless score that means absolutely nothing.
The game rocks - ranks + mission management + more sheep would make it much better (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by HaHa (edited 05-07-2000).]
-
Greetings !!
RAVVIN (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I am with you on this one all the ways (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
HAHA
You have good points but I old timer
have my own ways of thinking.
I understand what you mean people need
something to STRIVE FOR.. that is the
true reality of the life by it's self (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
You said this....
"How many times do people login and have to say, "what are we attacking?". How many times do people have to repeat over and over again, "need bomber at XX, need goon at XX".
Now what is the message here??
In my mind that mean poeple WANT to
make themself USEFUL and as they are proudperson they don't want to inter-
vene to little purpose that is .....
what people want to strive for
Not "ranks" or "scores" etc..etc..and each one want to join pleasure and success
Trying to get everyone working together to
achive one goal is possible but it always depend of the importance of that goal.
As I said befor I WANT TO BE THERE WHERE
IT COUNTso I'll be able to say .....
"Yes sir we did it!! and I am proud to say that I was with them.." (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I do not have to prove nothing to no one I
know what I am capable of I am not a...
super starand realy dont want to be one I hate loosing my time for no purpose
that is why I like teamwork (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
My conclusion ...no rank...no scores...I only
want to join pleasure and success.
------------------
THE ONLY PROPER DEFENCE IS OFFENSE
Best regards gents :)
Ranker...out!!!
-
Ok example - right now if I am an obsessed player (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) and I play 20 hrs a day for 2 weeks... what do I have to show for it ? nothing except for a useless score.
Then when I go into the arena - and say let's do this - people who don't know me just ignore me (or even ones who do) thinking I'm just another blowheart. They don't realize I have 200+ hrs under my belt and know what I am doing. IF one had rank then it would be OBVIOUS that I was experienced or at least obsessed (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
It's more of a personal thing for myself.. I have been flying sims for years now and it's getting old - fly/die/fly. Modern games have already shown the addiction/importance of maintaining a character (increasing in rank or whatever) such as Chain of Command, Allegiance, EQ etc.. My suggestion for rank probably won't be done because:
1) too complex/difficult to implement
2) wwIIonline is doing this and they don't want to copy
But I thought I would rock the boat a little and see if I could stir up some interest.
-
Quote from HaHa:
"Then when I go into the arena - and say let's do this - people who don't know me just ignore me (or even ones who do) thinking I'm just another blowheart."
Case closed.
Hang
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 05-08-2000).]
-
Originally posted by Hangtime:
Quote from HaHa:
{misquote}
Case closed.
Wow, there's the best misquote I've ever seen. It's funny HangTime that you'd post something like that considering my "real" post was only meant to be an example - i.e. some fictional "obsessed" player (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) If I wasn't oringally clear, hopefully now you understand what I meant.