Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pyro on September 14, 2006, 12:41:06 PM

Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Pyro on September 14, 2006, 12:41:06 PM
I'm going to shut down the first thread due to its size and continue here.  I'll start off with a FAQ of sorts on some things that were brought up in the original thread.  Keep it civil please.


Why did you make this change?

We made this change because it will allow us to support an unlimited amount of players in a much healthier online environment that gives us better long-term growth.  The single MA has grown to the point of being unhealthy.  This is not a subjective evaluation, it is quantifiable and they are numbers that we look at every day.  It’s obvious that we simply cannot keep pumping more players into a single arena without hitting a stagnation point.  


Why are you doing this now?

There’s a convergence of factors such as current arena health, player mass, time of year and a couple of things in the pipeline that we believe will provide an influx of players.  Taken together, we believe this is the best time to make this transition.  


Is this being done for technical reasons?

No.  While some people on lower end machines may see some performance benefit, it’s not for technical reasons that the change is being made.  


This is going to fracture the community.

We disagree.  Communities grow and healthy growth requires structure.  Just packing in as many people as possible creates a slum, not a community.  We now have multiple neighborhoods in our community, but they are all connected.  


The caps need to be adjusted.

The cap numbers as well as the numbers of arenas will undergo adjustment as needed.  During the transition, we feel its important not to make them too large in order to overcome habit and herding behavior.  Things will change as we move through the transition period and people begin to regain their comfort level.


We need better tools to find or communicate with people across the different arenas.

We agree.  We have some host side changes that will be coming out shortly that will facilitate cross arena communication and hooking up with your squad mates and we’ll continue to develop more things that will help in this area.


Are you crazy?

No, we are rational and unemotional about this.  We don’t undertake a major change because we’re masochists; we make the change because we believe that it is ultimately what’s best for the game.  


Why didn’t you take a poll or announce it earlier?

It wouldn’t be useful to us for this change.  We know it’s going to be controversial.  The real test is not whether people think they’re going to like it or dislike it, it’s what happens after we make the transition and things are settled.  I didn’t like beer the first time I tried it but I’ve grown quite fond of it since then.  The transition is the worst part and we have no interest in dragging that out opening up a conflict of speculation before it even starts.  We ultimately have to do what we think is best for the game.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 14, 2006, 12:46:14 PM



BTW, is 619 posts in 24 hours a new thread record?






I've seen research on growth of public groups (like churches) -- when the "arena" is perceived to be about 80% full, growth pretty much stops. Easy enough to see how a packed MA would be overwhelming to a new guy, from trying to stay alive long enough to get off the ground all the way to meeting new people.

Seriously -- when do YOU find it easiest to meet new people, in a party with 30 people or in a convention hall with 600?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: cav58d on September 14, 2006, 12:48:41 PM
HTC...Are you still calling the changes a "test, or beta"?  Will you be interpreting the data from arena's, and listening to our voices over the BBS the next couple weeks, or are these changes already set in stone...?

**Are you considering bringing the old MA back on top of these arenas?  I'll be honest with you...I love to fly the hurrimk1...I had no problem competing against LA's and spit 16's in the old MA, and now my fun has been taken away?...So are you considering re-activating the old MA, on top of the new changes?

and finally, and this may be a little much but I have to ask...As you can tell, a lot of us are un happy...I am one of them...I think you have an amazing video game, and your a good company...With this new change, the game has sorta just lost its appeal...To be honest with you I am considering whether I should keep my account or not...I definately plan on returning one day...CT will most likely be the factor...So could you please say if its worth keeping my account for another month or two because CT will be coming out?  Or is it still months away, and not worth holding onto the perks...

thanks



Cav58D
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: straffo on September 14, 2006, 12:50:06 PM
2 questions :)

1st why your post is full of "’" ? :)

2nd to you plane to add more early plane (namely D520,Ms406 or MB152) and do you need documentation  ?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Delirium on September 14, 2006, 12:50:16 PM
I really feel sorry for you guys at HTC, dealing with some of the naysayers that have posted already, combined with complete idiots like 'mkaykov' makes for a real bad work week.

Go home early today to unwind, lock the forums if you have to.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 14, 2006, 12:50:49 PM
We've been discussing this on our squad BBS, some like it, others don't... for various reasons.  One retired squaddie came back because of this change..

I think that with some slightly higher caps in the arenas and a 'buddy/squad list'  like this: http://www.flyaceshigh.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187127

would be very cool and help allay the 'my squad is going to die' fears.  I have no idea how you are going to break the aptly put 'herd mentality' aside from hard caps on the arenas.

However I do think this spells the end of the monster-squads and to a lesser extent, the hordes (if they are in fact any different other than in name).  Can't say I'm sorry to see that go away.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Krusty on September 14, 2006, 12:54:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Delirium
I really feel sorry for you guys at HTC, dealing with some of the naysayers that have posted already, combined with complete idiots like 'mkaykov' makes for a real bad work week.

Go home early today to unwind, lock the forums if you have to.


But.... :confused:

Then i'd actually have to WORK whilst at work! :huh
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Tilt on September 14, 2006, 12:54:09 PM
I may have missed this in the mammoth thread just closed............

what defines "early", "mid", & "late"?

given ETO began SEP 39 and PAC finishes AUG 45 we have a 6 year period

Early = Sep 39 to Aug 41
Mid =   Sep 41 to Aug 43
Late = Sep 43 to Aug 45

is this right?

Were M8's, M3's etc in use before the US joined the war?

Some other stuff seems "not to fit" either
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Trikky on September 14, 2006, 12:55:02 PM
Amen to the community v slum comment.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 14, 2006, 12:55:18 PM
WTG HTC!

The game that has been constantly evolving, sometimes in small tweaks sometimes in huge leaps, continues it's evolution. Many will whine, many will cry, the biggest babies will threaten to quit...but the game progresses along.

In my opinion this addresses nearly all of the issues that have arisen as a result of the steady influx of new players.

Quote
Originally posted by Kermit:

America did win the battle of britain. Don't you know anything?


LOL Kermie, we all know it was Ben Aflek who won the BoB!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: mongial on September 14, 2006, 12:56:09 PM
Being a nooby to this game and games of this sort, I can see where SOME of the fuss comes into play.  "I've been playing for one year and just got comfortable with the way things were."  Getting comfortable does make things "stale" as Pyro put it.

At first glance, I hated the idea, but as rational kicked in, I began to realize that this is NEW. I have to fly an F4f in the EA, which I have never flown (Im partial to the f4u-1).  

On another note, can anyone fill me in on what CT is, and what role it will play with the current AH2 setup?:D
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: cav58d on September 14, 2006, 12:56:18 PM
What would be the big deal with allowing "ALL" aircraft in the latewar arena with its original perk values???  That would shut me up
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 14, 2006, 12:57:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert1
WTG HTC!

The game that has been constantly evolving, sometimes in small tweaks sometimes in huge leaps, continues it's evolution. Many will whine, many will cry, the biggest babies will threaten to quit...but the game progresses along.

In my opinion this addresses nearly all of the issues that have arisen as a result of the steady influx of new players.



LOL Kermie, we all know it was Ben Aflek who won the BoB!


Yeah, on U-571. Jeez. Get it straight.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Pyro on September 14, 2006, 12:58:59 PM
We've never called this a test or beta.

Early mid and late are relative terms.  As things are split up now, it's generally a mid period of mid 42 to early 44 with early and late being outside of that.  As with many things, I'm sure this will evolve over time.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: cav58d on September 14, 2006, 12:59:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
We've never called this a test or beta.

Early mid and late are relative terms.  As things are split up now, it's generally a mid period of mid 42 to early 44 with early and late being outside of that.  As with many things, I'm sure this will evolve over time.


So this is hear for good....

What about adding "ALL" aircraft to the late war arena????  Is that something you may consider?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Pyro on September 14, 2006, 01:01:17 PM
It's not out of the question that early planes are never retired in the mid and late arenas.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 14, 2006, 01:02:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by cav58d
What would be the big deal with allowing "ALL" aircraft in the latewar arena with its original perk values???  That would shut me up


I think it's interesting that (from what I've seen) the most populated arena so far is the Early War Arena, NOT the Late War, which incidentally is not just late war rides either.  You can still get all but the earliest birds in there, and you can still up in an LA5 or a P40E and get wailed on. Unless you're just a masochist and want to fly a SpitI or a P40B against late war rides, I don't see how the late war 2 arena is much different, except in size or map.

I'm a little surprised by that... I wonder if anyone had any idea the early war arena would be the most popular.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Jolly on September 14, 2006, 01:05:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by scottydawg
However I do think this spells the end of the monster-squads and to a lesser extent, the hordes (if they are in fact any different other than in name).  Can't say I'm sorry to see that go away.


I think your very wrong scottydawg, in fact monster-squads will become even bigger. Why? Because if 3 squads had 70 players each and the MA had 450 players total. That was only 46%. Now those same three squads will be over 100% in any arena they go too.

You say it can't happen, well it did and still is happening. Check it out some arenas will have 70, 80, 120 from one country and 10 and 20 from the other two countries.

And that power will make them grow even bigger.

Jolly
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Lusche on September 14, 2006, 01:08:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by scottydawg
I'm a little surprised by that... I wonder if anyone had any idea the early war arena would be the most popular.


I´d say let´s wait a bit.  When the change occured, the old MA became more or less the new EA, with people re logging on instantly And as people tend to go were the number are highest, the effect is still on. Also most of the players loggin in for the first time since the change did click EA more or less by instinct, EA being the first in the list.

Wait for a week or two before deciding which arena is more popular.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 14, 2006, 01:09:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Jolly
I think your very wrong scottydawg, in fact monster-squads will become even bigger. Why? Because if 3 squads had 70 players each and the MA had 450 players total. That was only 46%. Now those same three squads will be over 100% in any arena they go too.

You say it can't happen, well it did and still is happening. Check it out some arenas will have 70, 80, 120 from one country and 10 and 20 from the other two countries.

And that power will make them grow even bigger.

Jolly


We'll see, but I doubt that will happen.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Krusty on September 14, 2006, 01:10:58 PM
No, it will force them to break off, have half switch to another team, and then fight each other.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: rogerdee on September 14, 2006, 01:12:56 PM
ok we got 2 arenas with p51s in can we have 15 different skins  in  one arena  and 15 in the 2nd?.

is it possible  for the different arenas  to havedifferent skins  from each other.

i am asking this because at the moment i cant fly what i want  and find  a fight so i will be doing more skinning.

eg i loged on to late 1  and there were 6 bish 2 knights  and 1 rook,it was so busy we made  a appointment for a fight so we could find each other.


now that isnt enjoyment.

although i didnt like the vast hordes in the MA  at least  killing  the vulchers  was fun,now  on gmt time its  hard  to find anyone  to fight apart from in the early arena  and there i cant fly the mossie  i wanted to fly.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Tilt on September 14, 2006, 01:13:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
It's not out of the question that early planes are never retired in the mid and late arenas.


cancelling out the double negatives..........

early planes could be  retained into late arenas........
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 14, 2006, 01:15:07 PM
I think the EA is crowded because so many players have really wanted to try those planes but their ability to do so was hampered by having to deal with 1945 rocketships zooming them then running away. Over time I expect the balance to shift toward the late war, but for now early war is simply different. You have to admit that for six years the MA has pretty much been a late 44-45 arena for the most part.
Quote
Originally posted by Jolly
INow those same three squads will be over 100% in any arena they go too.
 

Explain if you will how anything anywhere can "be over 100%" of the total.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MotorOil1 on September 14, 2006, 01:16:23 PM
Well, at first glance last night I found myself picking the arena with the most favourable numbers.  Was in the mid war theatre with 29 other rooks, we were getting overrun, when I left there was 8 rooks left.  Found myself in another theatre where numbers were a bit more balanced.

I see I'm not alone in my opinion or actions last night.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: cav58d on September 14, 2006, 01:16:27 PM
HTC....Will ack lethality be changed in the new arenas?????
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MWL on September 14, 2006, 01:19:00 PM
Just a question:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Pyro
It's not out of the question that early planes are never retired in the mid and late arenas.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

cancelling out the double negatives..........

early planes could be retained into late arenas........

-----------------------------------

Won't this just make it a Junior MA?

I personnally have no dog in this fight, just question the logic of killing off the MA to bring back a baby version.

Regards,
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 14, 2006, 01:23:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by scottydawg
I think it's interesting that (from what I've seen) the most populated arena so far is the Early War Arena, NOT the Late War, which incidentally is not just late war rides either.  You can still get all but the earliest birds in there, and you can still up in an LA5 or a P40E and get wailed on. Unless you're just a masochist and want to fly a SpitI or a P40B against late war rides, I don't see how the late war 2 arena is much different, except in size or map.

I'm a little surprised by that... I wonder if anyone had any idea the early war arena would be the most popular.
No im not surprised that everyone is flocking to the arena that has the most players at the loggin screen. The "WHY" the players are at the Early Arena at this stage of the change is where the answer to you question lies.;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Tilt on September 14, 2006, 01:25:45 PM
I think very few historians would consider the SpitIX or the Fw 190 A5 early war planes.

In fact the FW (A3) heralded the turning point of of early eto to mid period.

Rhubarbs were begining to take place over Northern France and the local air combat was beginning to turn from defensive to offensive............. (for the RAF)

Clasically between the fighters from Tangmere and the Abbeville bunch.


It was Spit V's coming across the new FW A3's that sparked the rushed development of the Spit IX.


Looking forward toi trying it all out anyway  

:)
Title: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Slash27 on September 14, 2006, 01:28:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
With players spreading out, we are aware of the need for better tools to find and communicate with your buddies. We will be working on some new tools to handle this but for now that can be accomplished with the squadron message of the day. (MOTD). The squad MOTD will reach across all the Main Arena’s so the squad leader can be sure that everybody knows where to go on a given night.
 


Is there a time frame on when this may be implemented? I love the game and all but what keeps me here is the community, in particular my squad. Being thats its a large squad this is already causing some headaches. No doom and gloom or anything, just some concerns.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 14, 2006, 01:38:44 PM
I wonder if changing from 3 sides to 2 would be bad or good, considering the new structure.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hitech on September 14, 2006, 01:39:49 PM
Slash: with a touch of luck, tommorow.

HiTech
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Yeager on September 14, 2006, 01:41:30 PM
We ultimately have to do what we think is best for the game.
====
Bravo! I applaud this change.


This is EXACTLY why you guys have been around so long.  

Now please, add the B-25, B29, P61, P39, Ki43, Ki100, M4, M24, M26, PantherD, T34/85, JS3, KingTiger and every other deployed machine that you can think of and have time for.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: cav58d on September 14, 2006, 01:42:43 PM
htc...IS THERE any consideration to decreasing the lethality and hardness of ack in the early and mid war arenas????
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: BBQ_Bob on September 14, 2006, 01:44:32 PM
I myself like the new format and think that change is good, one question though I did not notice if the GV's were also divded by the new format. And how about this, add some new planes and vehicles for each period. :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Saintaw on September 14, 2006, 02:00:52 PM
Just tried the early planeset arena and I liked it. Numbers were good as well (150 on Uterus)... if it weren't for all those damned p40 dweebs!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: cav58d on September 14, 2006, 02:04:24 PM
I think ack lethality/hardness needs to be turned down in the Early War Arena, if we r stuck with this set up...

I also would like HTC to entertain the thought of re-opening the old MA, exactly how it was for 1 or 2 days...If this change is really in the best interest of the community, then you will see all 4 or 5 (however many damn arenas we have now) filled with players....If what we all know will happen, happens if u re open the MA, then you have a mandate of the community
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Speed55 on September 14, 2006, 02:08:08 PM
Are you crazy?

No, we are rational and unemotional about this.   :lol


T4 - The New World
=================================================
I think the new setup is pretty cool, and once the cross arena squad location device is in place, i THINK alot of complaints will stop.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Pyro on September 14, 2006, 02:11:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tilt
cancelling out the double negatives..........

early planes could be  retained into late arenas........


Yes, you wouldn't be incorrect in saying that.;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Pyro on September 14, 2006, 02:14:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MWL

cancelling out the double negatives..........

early planes could be retained into late arenas........

-----------------------------------

Won't this just make it a Junior MA?

I personnally have no dog in this fight, just question the logic of killing off the MA to bring back a baby version.

Regards,


I think the late arena is essentially the same as the old MA.  The old MA wasn't defined by early war planes, it was defined by late war planes.  That's why it's not out of the question that we'd go that direction.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Eagler on September 14, 2006, 02:15:17 PM
with the early planeset being on average slower planes and lower numbers are there plans to create smaller maps with closer bases?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: cav58d on September 14, 2006, 02:16:47 PM
What are you talking about Pyro?  Do you know how many people flew extremely early war planes in the old Main Arena?
Title: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 14, 2006, 02:18:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro

The caps need to be adjusted.

The cap numbers as well as the numbers of arenas will undergo adjustment as needed.  During the transition, we feel its important not to make them too large in order to overcome habit and herding behavior.  Things will change as we move through the transition period and people begin to regain their comfort level.


Why didn’t you take a poll or announce it earlier?

It wouldn’t be useful to us for this change.  We know it’s going to be controversial.  The real test is not whether people think they’re going to like it or dislike it, it’s what happens after we make the transition and things are settled.  I didn’t like beer the first time I tried it but I’ve grown quite fond of it since then.  The transition is the worst part and we have no interest in dragging that out opening up a conflict of speculation before it even starts.  We ultimately have to do what we think is best for the game. [/B]


3 things.

1) That first part " During the transition, we feel its important not to make them too large in order to overcome habit and herding behavior.  " reads to me "we are forcing you into arena's/planes you don't want to fly. This is utter junk. If one arena is full it's because the CUSTOMERS want that. Instead you want to FORCE us into other arena's/planes?

2)Analogy for beer, sigh. I didn't like a car accident the first time I got in one, that doesn't mean eventually I will like getting in car wrecks. This is a disaster.

3)If the caps don't go back up to around 500 or more on an arena, I am gone. Had you told me this change BEFORE you charged my account I would already have cancelled. You as the company I would have thought owed the community a little "head's up" because this is a drastic change. Instead you charge me $15 bucks and then promptly alter the game that I used to love so much. Not very professional...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 14, 2006, 02:22:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by cav58d
What are you talking about Pyro?  Do you know how many people flew extremely early war planes in the old Main Arena?


I'm sure he does.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Furious on September 14, 2006, 02:26:12 PM
Overall, I like it.  

The game was more fun on the smaller maps with fewer people anyway.  Now we can get back aerial combat.

...and as long as there is a cross-arena "ch 200", the community is not really fractured.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SKJohn on September 14, 2006, 02:31:15 PM
If anything, there needs to be a cap for the # of players from each country in each arena.
A little ridiculous to log on and see 175 Bishops, 20 Rooks, and 5 Knights (for example).
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Eagler on September 14, 2006, 02:31:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by cav58d
What are you talking about Pyro?  Do you know how many people flew extremely early war planes in the old Main Arena?


that is only because we did not have an early plane room like we do now :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Pyro on September 14, 2006, 02:32:57 PM
Raider, all I can hope is that you give it a fair shake and have a change of heart.  As for the car wreck, I don't know about that.  I don't know anybody who likes getting into accidents yet there are a lot of people here who like the change.  As for change, that is what drives Aces High.  Always had, always will.  If we were unwilling or afraid to make change, we'd still be at version 1.00 and people would have stopped playing a long time ago.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Eagler on September 14, 2006, 02:33:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SKJohn
If anything, there needs to be a cap for the # of players from each country in each arena.
A little ridiculous to log on and see 175 Bishops, 20 Rooks, and 5 Knights (for example).


great idea but can you imagine the whines?
better to adjust the planes available based on the over-run percentages, like it is now but to a greater extreme
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 14, 2006, 02:41:11 PM
If anything the ack needs to be more leathal in the early war...  it was great.. the runway divers were being blown out of the sky in their early rides.... no free vultches like with the late war planes.

Two sides would be ok I think but the maps are wrong for that aren't they?

and... the ma was just as HT said... defined by late war planes allmost exclusively...  very rare to see an early war plane..

My take is that if nothing else....  when a new plane is brought out that isn't as fast as a peeee 51 or has 4 or more cannons....

There will be a place for it... people can find a use for the early Ki and french planes and buffalo and such.

lots of cool early war planes that weren't worth the trouble to develop in the late war only (if you wanted to survive) old ma.

Being able to toggle through the maps and move from a field in one map to one in the other without logging off would be cool..

closer fields for the early war maps would seem to make sense too.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: icemaw on September 14, 2006, 02:44:49 PM
I know I know its way off topic!
However how do you make these {’" } ultra l33t symbols??
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 14, 2006, 02:45:41 PM
Raider, there is no doubt that life with 200 players on will be different than life with 500 players on.

But think for a second. How many of those 500 did you see when you sortied? Most likely, 20 or 30 at most. That continues to be completely possible in the new setup.

What WILL be different is the available manpower for group activities. The days of 40 plane missions may well be gone. But that doesnt mean that group activities are trashed. In fact, they may get even more interesting!

See, when a mission or squad op hits a base, the resistance has very little chance to be effective purely because of the numbers. While it feels good to be part of an organized wave that finally takes a base (or crushes the attackers), its even more fun to be clever about it.

Now, instead of that group hitting with overwhelming force, your smaller unit may have to adjust its tactics to be faster or smarter. You can still have fun doing what you love, just do it differently. Play to your strengths, applied to the new challenges.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: indy007 on September 14, 2006, 02:45:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by cav58d
What are you talking about Pyro?  Do you know how many people flew extremely early war planes in the old Main Arena?


Hmm, last month's MA stats...

LA-7 - 38623 kills, 32787 deaths
N1K2 - 35316 kills, 28550 deaths
SpitXVI - 33120 kills, 31638 deaths
P-51D - 25428 kills, 24764 deaths
Tempest - 7154 kills, 1278 deaths

P-40B - 310 kills, 1415 deaths
SpitI - 387 kills, 2047 deaths
Hurri Mk1 - 779 kills, 2588 deaths
P-38G - 1352 kills, 1508 deaths
Bf109F4 - 1780 kills, 1713 deaths (wtg luftwaffles!)

I don't think there can really be any question about which were by far the predominate aircraft in the MA in both quantity and kill ratios. The stats are online, and we can see them. Therefore, Pyro I'm sure has access to them also, and probably quite a bit more arena demographics data than we have.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Donzo on September 14, 2006, 02:49:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Being able to toggle through the maps and move from a field in one map to one in the other without logging off would be cool..


Wormholes!!!!

Perked wormholes!!!!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: x0847Marine on September 14, 2006, 02:52:07 PM
I like the format a-lot, but the arenas I want to use, mid / late 1-2, were either near empty, or had extreme number changes that kiled the fun.

Having 35 dudes digitally asshammer you and your 6 country-mates gets dull in a hurry.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Iceman24 on September 14, 2006, 02:52:37 PM
Only problem I have with it is that when I logged in last night around midnight or so, there were only 30-40 players in each of the arena's, that's no fun... I took a base by myself in a lil under 15 minutes. If I had 3 or 4 more people with me we could have reset the map and gone on a complete score potato run. I think a healthy arena should have at least 150 players in it or its just not worth it, IMO

But I understand why it had to be done and know that changes will be made in the future that will make it allot funner, but right now basically unless you want to fly early war models only, then your gonna be in an arena with only 30-40 other players just doing porkruns and buff scorepotato missions.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Warchief on September 14, 2006, 02:56:18 PM
Pryo I like and dont like the change. I like it because now if you want to fly withint a period you can. Just a thought I mentioned it on 200 and most people seem to like this idea. How about cutting down to 2 arenas. Early to Mid and Mid to Late Arena.
If not can we place a limt on the amount of players that one country has. I mean say which ever country can flood a given arean to the point where they outnumber the other sides combined 5 to 1 and are on a mad dash to reset the map. People will long in and turn around go to another arena. People arrive in that arean till they have the numbers and begin the mad dash for the reset. The sides outnumbered go to different arean and so forth and so on.
Me I fly mainly Hurricane IIC and since it is available I have no issuse with the intended idea. I know there are going to alot of bugs to work out. Please look at the arenas and make some slight adjustments as needed. IE in the early war Arena GV battles are pathetic at best due to being stuck with the T-34 and its excessive reload time. Since the Panzer was techincally a early war tank it should also be available through out.

Now I really dont like the look of this but not to kiss arnold but you havent lead us the wrong way before and willing to give it time to see how things work out.
Title: Re: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ghi on September 14, 2006, 02:56:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
.

3)If the caps don't go back up to around 500 or more on an arena, I am gone. Had you told me this change BEFORE you charged my account I would already have cancelled. You as the company I would have thought owed the community a little "head's up" because this is a drastic change. Instead you charge me $15 bucks and then promptly alter the game that I used to love so much. Not very professional...



 I agree, well said
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mister Fork on September 14, 2006, 02:56:48 PM
Pyro: will there be a need for the AvA arena now that we have historical dated aircraft arenas?  That was the premise of the arena, albeit the Axis verus Allies is the main focus.

I like this setup, although if we're going to have mid and late war arena's, retiring the older aircraft would seem logical.  For example, the Spitfire I would have no business in the Late War arena.  If the underpinning theme is late war, I would expect 'late war' only.  That way it doesn't become a mini-MA again - which is what you don't want.  

Question: Are you planning to tweak the arena's as to what is available based on usage or are you sticking to the historical entry dates a buch of us have collected on the aircraft service dates (or your own)?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Airscrew on September 14, 2006, 03:02:34 PM
I'll add my 2 cents.  Adapt, Improvise, and Overcome.   come on guys its only been 1 day since the change give it some time.

I like the change.  I logged on about 5:30pm.  I flew for about an hour and half in the Early War arena.  Plenty of fights.   got discod, when I went to log back in it was 249/250.   Decided to go check out the Mid War arena.  Not a lot there, 36/250.   I flew/fought for about 30 minutes or so.  Kinda reminded me of the old Aces High 6 years ago when you logged on late at night.  bunch of guys milk runnin bases.   I then popped in to the Late War arena.  it was about 190/250.    Flew there about an hour or so, had a few good fights.   got discod again.  On and off for the 4 hours or so I was on last night numbers were always high on Early War area I dont think I ever saw less than 200.   Late War was about 100 to 200, up and down.  Mid War arena I dont think I ever saw the numbers go over 100 but I wasnt watching it that close.  
I started the night at about 22 kills and 14 deaths.  I finished last night with 50 kills and 33 deaths.  I've never gotten that many kills in one night before.  I usually only have time to fly for about 2 hours or so when I log in.  I think it was partially because nobody could run away from a fight, I wasnt spending all my time chasing down La7s, P51s, and Typhoons.
I think the P-38g and 190A5 could be perked for a little less.  I wish the bases where a little closer together.

 I would like to see the cap raised to at least 300.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 14, 2006, 03:04:43 PM
I don't get it...  

How can 30-40 players not be fun in the new arenas when that many in the AvA is allmost crowded and action packed?

Is is attitude?   Is it that the AvA has a lot of closer fields and that the people tend to go to where the fight is?

Is it that the AvA has a two sided war?

I am sure it is a little of all those things.

What I see is people trying to fly old MA in the new arenas... people not adapting yet....  guys in hurries acting like they are in la7's   high fights when a high fight is worthless...

attempts to runnway dive and vultch a few riskless kills end up with the ack blowing their early war ride out of the sky....

All for the best in my opinion... those things were what was ruining the gameplay anyway..  

Now.. 8 guys trying to shut down a field and vultch end up getting slaughterd and... they find that they can't even run home.. they get caught.

adjustments to gameplay will follow... poor newbies that were absorbed into mega squads and so..... never learned a thing will..... learn the new ways and the good fights will make em better and more respected and a stronger community.   newbies will learn that the HO and the runway dive and whorde not only don't work but...  never were any fun to begin with compared to actualy participating in some acm.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: cav58d on September 14, 2006, 03:06:41 PM
Like I said...HTC...I challenge you to re-open the old MA, and let the community speak for its self...If after 24 hour's the #'s are still evenly distributed, and the old MA doesnt get the support I imagine it would then I think it will shut all of us up, and we will accept this new change....BUT...If the old main arena becomes the dominant arena for those 24 hours then I think you are seeing a mandate from the people who feed you every night....  I think its worth a shot...does anyone else agree?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Eagler on September 14, 2006, 03:08:11 PM
nope :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Laurie on September 14, 2006, 03:09:51 PM
tis a bit out of order, what happened to development and resaerch or polls or votes.. or even  a damn notification. i logged on thinking what the hell..., had no clue wwhere my m8s were, were my squaddies were and were to go ( an englishman in new york lol "sting") i really enjoyed the community side to game, its what makes it an online game not a nintendo one isnt it.... sort summin out please!!!!

laurie-- hulse2
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 14, 2006, 03:10:53 PM
I don't think that one day of the new format is such a great way to judge.

People might go to a reencarnated MA right now because they know nothing else and haven't given this one a chance and...

say you are right (I don't think so but)  say you are right... say the new ma takes over and the new arenas are deserted....

How would no change at all solve all the problems that HT states he was trying to solve by the new arenas?

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Laurie on September 14, 2006, 03:13:18 PM
and yes i do cav:) :aok
Title: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mustaine on September 14, 2006, 03:15:39 PM
cav, in case you didn't read it all...


Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
Why did you make this change?

We made this change because it will allow us to support an unlimited amount of players in a much healthier online environment that gives us better long-term growth. The single MA has grown to the point of being unhealthy.  This is not a subjective evaluation, it is quantifiable and they are numbers that we look at every day.  It's obvious that we simply cannot keep pumping more players into a single arena without hitting a stagnation point.  
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Domin on September 14, 2006, 03:16:23 PM
If you allow the late arena to have the full plane set.. not only would that solve a lot of the community problems, it would also allow HTC to see where the community really stands. Will the late (main) arena be full again? Or will the Early/Mid?

 I think it is a quick way to give the best of both and go from there. I don't see what it could hurt?


 I liked the challenge of fly a 109f-4 in the MA. I understand that some don't. But it would still be nice to have the option.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Iceman24 on September 14, 2006, 03:24:21 PM
One more thought, what happens when one of the bigger squads that constantly has allot of pilots on jumps over to an arena with 20-30 players in it, they will reset in in about an hour if they all work together. At 1 point yesterday in the late war2 arena there were 23 rooks, 5 knights and 7 bishops... It may have been a blast for the 23 rooks that were all gv'ing and taking bases but for the rest of us it was very boring flying around for an hour looking for a fight. I like ya'lls idea of having a korea theatre but my whole take on this is that if I wanted to fly jets I would go play lockon or falcon or something like that. I joined this game because of the MA and the WWII planeset, and this is a WWII sim... I'm sure I'm just jumping the gun and that things will even out and get allot better, but right now I don't like the change at all. But I am definately willing to give it a chance to grow and balance out with the necessary changes that I'm sure will be emplemented soon. Another thing is that I like to fly with certain players and against certain players, and I liked being able to go into a fight knowing that the enemy plane I am about to engage could be flown by anyone, a good pilot or a bad 1, the way it is now, most good sticks are in the early war arena and the rest are scattered between the other 3. So if I want a good fight, I am basically forced to fly early war because I know thats where most the furballers are gonna be. The other 3 arena's are full of groups of people making buff runs to pad scores and to just take bases to pad scores. IMHO all we have done is turn the MA into an early war planeset only, but like I said hopefully I am just jumping the gun and that things will balance out and I am trying to stay as optimistic as I can because I really enjoy playing this game and would hate to see it messed up
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: rod367th on September 14, 2006, 03:28:04 PM
Hey  some guys like to play no other sides.  late 1 arena had 12 rooks no bishop no nits when i logged on. i changed to nits fought rooks to stand still. every time they came to milk i would kil 3 they would just go another base. I did like the free 262's and perk   was upto 45.o  at 1 time  most time it was 19 or better.   then   rooks change to hitting bishops knowing i can't change. then bish come in  reset rooks. As soon as rooks   getting smacked they log. No need for late war 1 and 2 atleast not yet.

Late war 1 has beciome milkrun arena milk bases reset get perks repeat.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Bruno on September 14, 2006, 03:30:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tilt
I think very few historians would consider the SpitIX or the Fw 190 A5 early war planes.


We put together an extensive list on aircraft service dates in the A & V section of the forum a few months ago:

Here's the complete list:

Quote
Aircraft and Vehcile Service Dates

Aircraft
USA
A-20G ... 5-42
B-17G ... 6-43
B-24J ... 5-43
B-26B ... 5-42
C-47A ... 12-41
P-38G ... 11-42
P-38J ... 12-43(ETO) 2-44(PTO)
P-38L ... 7-44
P-40B ... 1-41
P-40E ... 8-41
P-47D-11 ... 3-43(D5) to 1-44(D11)
P-47D-25 ... 5-44
P-47D-40 ... 1-45(ETO)
P-47N ... 6-45
P-51B ... 12-43(ETO),8-44(CBI)
P51D ... 5-44(ETO),1-45(CBI&PTO)
F4F-4 ... 9-41(ETO),5-42(PTO)
FM-2 ... 6-44(ETO),10-44(PTO)
F6F-5 ... 7-44
F4U-1 ... 2-43(ETO),4-44(ETO)
F4U-1D ... 4-44
F4U-1C ... 4-45
F4U-4 ... 4-45
F6F-5 ... 7-44
SBD-5 ... 5-43
TBM-3 ... 2-43

Britain
Boston MK III ... 5-41
Hurricane Mk I ... 5-40
Hurricane IIC ... 4-41
Hurricane IID ... 6-42
Lancaster III ... 3-42
Mosquito Mk VI ... 7-43(ETO),11-43(PTO&CBI)
Spitfire Mk IA ... 8-40
Seafire IIC ... 10-42,11-43(ETO)
Spitfire V ... 4-41
Spitfire VIII ... 7-43
Spitfire Mk IX ... 7-42
Spitfire Mk XIV ... 5-44,7-45(CBI)
Spitfire Mk XVI ... 7-44
Tempest V ... 6-44
Typhoon IB ... 6-43

Soviet
Il-2 Type 3 ... 10-42
La-5FN ... 3-43
La-7 ... 6-44
Yak-9T ... 1-43
Yak-9U ... 7/8-44

Italy
C.202 ... 11-41
C.205 ... 1-43

Japan
A6M2 ... 7-40
A6M5b ... 8-43
B5N2 ... 7-40
D3A-1 ... 7-40
Ki-61 ... 6-43
Ki-84-la ... 8-44 (CBI),10-44(PTO)
Ki-67 ... 4-44
N1K2-J ... 1-45

Germany
Ar 234B ... 12-44
Bf 109E-4 ... 5-40
Bf 109F-4 ... 6-41
Bf 109G-2 ... 6-42
Bf 109G-6 ... 2-43
Bf 109G-14 ... 7-44
Bf 109K-4 ... 10-44
Bf 110C-4b ... 8-40
Bf 110G-2 ... 5-42
Fw 190A-5 ... 6-43
Fw 190A-8 ... 2-44
Fw 190D-9 ... 12-44
Fw 190F-8 ... 4-44
Ju 88A-4 ... 5-41
Me 262 ... 10-44
Me 163 ... 9-44
Ta 152H ... 1-45

Vehicles
USA
LVT(A)2 ...2-44
LVT(A)4 ...3-44
M-3 Halftrack...3-41
M-8 ...9-42
M-16 ...5-43

Germany
Ostwind ... 8-44
Panzer IV Type H ... 8-44
Tiger I ...8-42

Soviet
T-34/76 ... 2-43

Theatres of Operations
PTO - Pacific
ETO - Europe
CBI - China-Burma-India/CHINA-BURMA-INDIA


The above lists represents what would be considered 'in squadron service', not 'production', or 'service testing'.

We arrived at Spitfire F.IX for 7-42. In fact there were 10 squadrons of Spitfire F.IXs by the end of '42. For the Fw 190A-5 we arrived at 6-43.

The problem AH has with the Focke' Scourge is that with no early Fw 190 variant You would see the up powered Spit V (16lbs boost) and the Spitfire F.IX before any Fw variant. As you noted the IX and later the LF.IX were brought into service to deal with the perceived Fw advantage. That was one of the isssus with the 16lb Spitfire V. Well that and the under powered Bf 109F-4 (that's another story but here's a link: Bf 109F-4 performance page (http://www.beim-zeugmeister.de/zeugmeister/index.php?id=21&L=1))

If you want more details on how the above list was put together search the A & V forums for Forks discussions. Of course if there are any errors in the list we could pick this discussion up in the A & V forum. Just please provide sources if you wish to make changes.

I don't wish to get into what is defined as early, middle or late. Those on high can decide that. The above is justed posted as 'FYI'. I am not sure if HTC would care to use this list as an aid but it is pretty thorough. However, IMHO it shouldn't be so much about 'service dates' but about 'relative performance'. The closer the planes are to parity the better the fights tend to be.

But what do I know....

Gru,

Wotan
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Amigo on September 14, 2006, 03:32:49 PM
PYRO-


What would be your thoughts on a server that would start at Early War plane-set, stay there for x number of weeks, move on to Middle War plane-set for x weeks, and conclude at Late War plane-set with a declared WWI Victor (yes, even if one of the "countries" ends up 100% eliminated from the map at some point along the way)?  Of course, it would have to retain the current bases held by each country between plane-set changes.

Would that even be possible from a technical standpoint with your software/hardware?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Laurie on September 14, 2006, 03:35:45 PM
sounds gurd amigo, i like the idea will be better for everything and everyone,

hulse2-- lauire:aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Iceman24 on September 14, 2006, 03:43:56 PM
Why not just have a backup MA like we used to for the overflow ? Or like someone else said earlier make a early to mid war arena and a mid to late war arena, there's no need for 4 of them IMHO
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MAG1C on September 14, 2006, 03:52:39 PM
I think someone may have missed the point when they asked for the Early War Arena to evolve to middle war and then late war after a period of time.  The MA was apparently getting too full.  This arrangement breaks up the players into multiple arenas giving more space for the number of players to grow into.

Personally, I like this arrangement.  Its historically more correct.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Lye-El on September 14, 2006, 04:00:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by cav58d
.does anyone else agree?


Not I.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Hawco on September 14, 2006, 04:04:37 PM
Pyro
What plan do you have in mind for getting numbers into the mid war arena?  Since the change it's been the early arena or the late arena that has been getting the numbers.
I know it's only been 2 days but it's dire in there as people are following the herd, I like it in there as it has about the best match ups out of all the arenas.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Lusche on September 14, 2006, 04:08:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MAG1C
This arrangement breaks up the players into multiple arenas giving more space for the number of players to grow into.
 



Sorry, but for me there is currently too much space.
I was playin on & off the whole day. Was desperatly looking for any kind of bigger battles we used to have.

But thats hard to find when there are no more 150 but only about 40 or much even less people in an arena. Only now, at 11pm CET (time zone I am living) EA is getting about 150 players.

While I see many ways lots of other minor shortcomings could & will be corrected in near future, this is a real issue to me.

Change itself may be necessary, and i can surely adapt and make compromises. Heck, I dont like that "historical" planeset at all, but I could live with it for sure.

But the fights I did enjoy so much are not there anymore. Only small scale dogfights or even constant milkruns.

And I simply cant see how that can be fixed without getting rid of the split arenas concept , because I am sure the will be no sudden rise in player numbers at non-us times.

As I stated before: I guess I am simply out of luck here.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Oldman731 on September 14, 2006, 04:16:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mister Fork
Pyro: will there be a need for the AvA arena now that we have historical dated aircraft arenas?  That was the premise of the arena, albeit the Axis verus Allies is the main focus.

....why....YES!  OF COURSE THERE'S A NEED!  AvA is STILL the only place in AH where you can get a historic fight.

Geez.

- oldman
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Cable on September 14, 2006, 04:19:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by scottydawg
We've been discussing this on our squad BBS, some like it, others don't... for various reasons.  One retired squaddie came back because of this change..

I have no idea how you are going to break the aptly put 'herd mentality' aside from hard caps on the arenas.

However I do think this spells the end of the monster-squads and to a lesser extent, the hordes (if they are in fact any different other than in name).  Can't say I'm sorry to see that go away.


Speaking as a member of one "monster squad" that is continually maligned for a style of flying we rarely participate in, I would like to draw a distinction between flying in the same arena with friends and driving 90 planes into a undefended base.

First, I would point out to those who can remember what the last map looked like BEFORE this change (which has many good points btw), you can see with your own eyes that the vast amount of hording was done NOT by monster squads, but by the country who simply had the numbers.  "Monsters" had nothing to do with it... EXCEPT... when a side is down to a dozen or so fields on a giant map, the introduction of team that on ONE NIGHT flys toward common goals (NOTE: I didn't say "all flys together on a single mission") it tends to even up the odds.  On nights many of us would be on but NOT flying together, spread all over the map, we were hoarded constantly.  Then, on the one night we do, we tend to push back the incoming hoard, make it hard if not impossible for them to gain ground, and while we're at it take back a little real estate.

It seems most people want to overlook the beginning state of affairs and focus only on one snapshot of the whole week and infer the large squad is solely responsible for everything they don't like in the arena.

They aren't, and in a giant map, I think everyone knows that.

Because we fly together as a team doesn't mean we're all in the same mission.  Some might be hitting strat, taking down troops, defending one or more airfields while some others work on attacking a base or clearing a cap with a fighter sweep.  If you imagine it's 90 guys all taking off and going the same place flight after flight you're mistaken.


How this applies in the change is that we can no longer have any guarantee that we can fly with the guys we've developed friendships with.  It almost seems like the attitude is, too bad, go make new ones.  I don't have any problems with making new ones, I do have a problem with tossing the old ones overboard.

There has been talk of some kind of inter-arena comms... so what?  Why don't we just call each other on the phone and report what we're each doing in ANOTHER arena?  The point is we want to work on something together, fly together, and actually SHARE the fun of this game.  Is that asking too much?  It doesn't matter so much WHICH arena, just that we can all fit into one.

I like many of the changes more than I thought I would.  Some I don't as far as gameplay goes, but I have confidence those things will get wrung out and adjusted as needed, no problem there.  I just think that a common theme in the now-closed thread was the issue of arena size, and it seems to me jacking up the allowable ought to take away about 20-25% of the complaints I've read so far, and it doesn't seem unreasonable or earth-shattering to accomodate that small change.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 14, 2006, 04:37:47 PM
It seems most of those in favor of the new format have been here 2+ years, and most of those opposed to change are newer.

Am I the only one noticing that trend?

If you've been here any length of time you'd know that change has been constant.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: pluck on September 14, 2006, 04:38:53 PM
not sure if touched on, but will the amount time between switching sides stay the same?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: WMLute on September 14, 2006, 04:41:56 PM
If you have a Fw 190A-5 in Early War that was put out in  6-43

THEN you should consider adding...

Ki-61 ... 6-43

C.205 ... 1-43

Typhoon IB ... 6-43
Hurricane IID ... 6-42

F4U-1 ... 2-43(ETO)

Il-2 Type 3 ... 10-42
La-5FN ... 3-43
Yak-9T ... 1-43

A-20G ... 5-42
B-17G ... 6-43
B-24J ... 5-43
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Triumph on September 14, 2006, 04:44:24 PM
This is not what I thought I was paying for. How long before you realize this was an idealistic error?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Triumph on September 14, 2006, 04:48:00 PM
posted from Cav58d:

Like I said...HTC...I challenge you to re-open the old MA, and let the community speak for its self...If after 24 hour's the #'s are still evenly distributed, and the old MA doesnt get the support I imagine it would then I think it will shut all of us up, and we will accept this new change....BUT...If the old main arena becomes the dominant arena for those 24 hours then I think you are seeing a mandate from the people who feed you every night.... I think its worth a shot...does anyone else agree?posted from Cav58d:



indeed
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: mussie on September 14, 2006, 04:50:09 PM
Will the Scores format be changed...?

Will it show your stats for the different arena's and or the total for all ?

For the record I am not a score potato, but I like to see how I am performing, am I getting better or worse
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Karnak on September 14, 2006, 04:56:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Triumph
This is not what I thought I was paying for. How long before you realize this was an idealistic error?

Read the OP.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Goomba on September 14, 2006, 05:03:49 PM
I think the we all need to step back and give the whole thing a bit of time to settle out.

HTC, if one reads the statements that begin this thread, is trying to enhance and expand the attractiveness of the game.  This is obviously only the beginning of a project designed to widen the scope of choices and silence a bunch of tired old griefs about the old MA.

Not only that, but they've hinted at some more additions and expansions waiting in the wings that this change is designed to lay the foundations for.  We could get WW1, Korea...maybe even dedicated GV arenas.  Who knows?  I know for sure that this is NOT the end of the line, only the beginning.

Several of the issues will resolve themselves as the subscriber base increases (and it will), and people adjust their thinking.  Every time there is a change, it requires a rethinking of tired old habits and tactics.  I think it only refreshes the game.

Think about it.  First, there's gripes about "I can't fly my beloved early-war ride with all these "uber" "dweeb" "easymode" planes around.  Then, HTC separates them, and new gripes follow.  Sometimes, you just can't win.

Some people simply cannot cope with change, no matter what the upsides might be.  Sure this'll thow us for a loop for awhile, but they're listening, they're responding, and I bet it'll all be good in the long run.

Radio stations change formats, auto manufacturers redesign bodystyles on classic marques...things change all the time without 'permission' from the customer base.  Some work, some fail, but they're always intended to respond to perceived needs...not to mention business realities.  Some folks leave but, if the call was a good one, more will come than go away.  Idealism?  I seriously doubt it.  Idealism really doesn't enter into a business decision, and this business seems to do quite well in it's niche.

I say (for whatever that's worth)...let's try it out and see what comes next.  I'm optimistic.

Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Furball on September 14, 2006, 05:14:22 PM
yay HTC!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Stratocaster on September 14, 2006, 05:17:46 PM
when can I fly the sabre and the l33t f9f in the korean war theater? and when can I down some dr1s in my sopwith camel>
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Surf35 on September 14, 2006, 05:23:25 PM
I was in late war areana today at about 6pm eastern. At which time the bishops could only launch planes and veh with more that 40 ENY score. THAT IS RIDICULUS! This new format punishes those you want to use something other than the early war areana. This just cannot keep happening and still expect me to pay 15 dollars a month. I know alot of loyal users feel the same way. We are willing to accept the new areanas, but we just cant fly in them because of the ristrictions.:mad:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Spatula on September 14, 2006, 05:25:09 PM
Pyro - what do you mean exactly by 'unhealthy'? if this is change for non-technical reasons, then can you clarify the 'unheathy' factors, and what consitutes a 'healthy' arena? Thanks.


I have a couple of extra suggestions that i ask be considered. Other people have posted them but i think ill go further.

1. At a bare minimum, scrap the two late war arenas - that would help a little bit put more than 7 people in the LW arena when i play (may even double it).

2. Consider just two MA arenas. Either as a LW/EW split or a Original MA/Historic Arena (with rolling time period). Both of these would diversify the arenas and split the numbers up during your peak periods, but not dilute them to a point of unplayability when people in non-US peak times play.

3. Have the number of arenas adjusted based on certain times. e.g. have the 3 or 4 arenas for peak US times as you have it now, but revert back to two as per suggestion 2 above for the time periods when there wont be enough people to justify 4 arenas - you must have the stats to know when these times are. But you still have the problem of kicking people out of arenas when they close. So you could solve that by closing entry to the arena, and let the numbers drop off naturally before closing it?

Ive slept on it, and thought of some constructive alternatives or alterations to your plans for your consideration. Im prepared to 'let the dust settle' over the next week or so and well wait and see how it goes. But if it is to continue as it was last night (single digit players in all arenas except EW), and lets hope not, then i fear i, and others in the off time zones too, will just loose interest - let alone try attract people to join up to that.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Hawco on September 14, 2006, 05:27:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Stratocaster
when can I fly the sabre and the l33t f9f in the korean war theater? and when can I down some dr1s in my sopwith camel>


2 weeks
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 68Ripper on September 14, 2006, 05:30:35 PM
Well it looks to me that HT has managed to satisfy the BK's and a small amount of other furballers. I for one will be ending my subscription. Gameplay and moral has reached a all time low. And until things improve A LOT this will be my final 2 weeks (only because I have already paid for it).
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: belethch on September 14, 2006, 05:31:51 PM
only 1 thing to say, furballers won let go all and lets move on.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Sloehand on September 14, 2006, 05:35:57 PM
Well, just left Late Arena.  Lots of very mad people there.  Seems that the town, ord, hangars, etc. don't stay down as long as they should any more.  Would have been nice to now a head of time.  Also, people are saying that the various manned guns can't be used.    
And just now, the ENY went up to "46", mean you couldn't up anything, nada, nothing.  This one is really frying people bad.  They just plain don't like the manipulation that it seems HiTech is trying to pull.  Big Brother alive and well???
They have it all wrong.  I was starting to think the multi-arena format might work and be positive, but if the put restrictions like this in, I won't play.  And many are saying the same thing.  It's getting very angry out there.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: TexInVa on September 14, 2006, 05:37:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Surf35
I was in late war areana today at about 6pm eastern. At which time the bishops could only launch planes and veh with more that 40 ENY score. THAT IS RIDICULUS! This new format punishes those you want to use something other than the early war areana. This just cannot keep happening and still expect me to pay 15 dollars a month. I know alot of loyal users feel the same way. We are willing to accept the new areanas, but we just cant fly in them because of the ristrictions.:mad:


Try changing countries and you should be able to fly those aircraft with a lower ENY value.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 68Ripper on September 14, 2006, 05:40:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TexInVa
Try changing countries and you should be able to fly those aircraft with a lower ENY value.



Oh now there's a great idea! Switch countries as often as you switch underwear.

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Hawco on September 14, 2006, 05:41:19 PM
Having seen that this is the second sticky concerning the changes then what's the point of posting on here?
Changes nothing, allows you to vent and argue and that's about it.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Hawco on September 14, 2006, 05:43:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by belethch
only 1 thing to say, furballers won let go all and lets move on.

Hit the nail right on the head there
The most honest post on the bbs, yup your right, must have been mass quantities of furballers at the convention I think.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: blutic on September 14, 2006, 05:44:58 PM
This may go against the latest trend but,
I LIKE IT!
I was in a Spit MKI last night and was killed by something
besides a LA-7.... I died, but was a fun fight.
HTC:aok
Blutik
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Husky01 on September 14, 2006, 05:45:58 PM
Its simple for me.........

1. Can I live with it? Yes.
2. Do  l like it?          No.
3. Is there anything we can do about it?   No.
4. Will i try and look at the positives on this change?. Yes
5. Do I think this is going to hurt larger squads in the game. YES.
6. Do i think this will settle the "hoard" problem? No.
7. Will things go back to the old way? Most likly not.

    Dear HTC community,

         I know old habbits die hard. I know this change came on VERY fast. I relise that it has improved game play and hurt it at the same time. I know the "loners" dont mind, while at the same time I know the large squads are upset. Please lets bear with it and at LEAST give it a week or so, before we make are final judgement. Intill then lets hope for the best, and that what ever HTC decidedes to do is in the best intrence for the community.

              All
              and please lets jsut give it a chance
                   P.S. if it matters I do not like the change.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: JAWS2003 on September 14, 2006, 05:46:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WMLute
If you have a Fw 190A-5 in Early War that was put out in  6-43

THEN you should consider adding...

Ki-61 ... 6-43

C.205 ... 1-43

Typhoon IB ... 6-43
Hurricane IID ... 6-42

F4U-1 ... 2-43(ETO)

Il-2 Type 3 ... 10-42
La-5FN ... 3-43
Yak-9T ... 1-43

A-20G ... 5-42
B-17G ... 6-43
B-24J ... 5-43



When you look at FW-190A5 in game you should really see it as A3 or A4.
 FW-190 started fighting (experimentally) in 1941 with A1 had A2 versions and during 1942 no fewer then 1800 FW-190's A3 and A4 have been delivered to front line units.
 There's little difference between A4 and A5. A3 is not as good performer as the other two but was not that far off. Same guns, just different radio and engine was less powerful.
 The A5 was used "as A4" in many AvsA setups and special events. Is nothing wrong with that.

 When you think about, planes like La5FN, Typhoon and Spitfire MkIX were rushed in service/production to counter the FW-190, I think it is fair to have it in the early period.

  So since there's no A4 in the game you just consider the A5 in early arena a Foke Wulf 190 A3/4. ........Unless they want to model one. ;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: USRanger on September 14, 2006, 05:48:04 PM
Yes, the furballers did win, because they cried the longest & loudest.  Now THEY are the one's trashing people on the threads who don't want to play their way.  Go figure.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Surf35 on September 14, 2006, 05:48:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TexInVa
Try changing countries and you should be able to fly those aircraft with a lower ENY value.

Yeah thats it! Ill just forget i was trying to launch an m3 to take a base. Instead ill change countries and have the whole thing happen again. That is the stupidest suggestion, but i geuss this is the way AH2 is headed
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Lusche on September 14, 2006, 05:48:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sloehand
Well, just left Late Arena.  Lots of very mad people there.  Seems that the town, ord, hangars, etc. don't stay down as long as they should any more.  Would have been nice to now a head of time.  Also, people are saying that the various manned guns can't be used.    
And just now, the ENY went up to "46", mean you couldn't up anything, nada, nothing.  This one is really frying people bad.  They just plain don't like the manipulation that it seems HiTech is trying to pull.  Big Brother alive and well???
They have it all wrong.  I was starting to think the multi-arena format might work and be positive, but if the put restrictions like this in, I won't play.  And many are saying the same thing.  It's getting very angry out there.


I am pretty sure that all these problems were not HTCs intention and just more or less the ususal bugs. Guns, eny problems & such are correctable and I think they are not part of the "Plan"
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: USRanger on September 14, 2006, 05:51:31 PM
Quote
The most honest post on the bbs, yup your right, must have been mass quantities of furballers at the convention I think.


No ,they just live on the forums, throwing their opinion of how everyone should play into every thread they can find.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 14, 2006, 05:51:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by USRanger
Yes, the furballr did win, because they cried the longest & loudest.  Now THEY are the one's trashing people on the threads who don't want to play their way.  Go figure.


This allegation really confuses me. Maybe I'm just slow.

How did the furballer win? The capture mechanics are the same. The maps are the same. No rules were changed. No separate furball arena was created. The total numbers in the individual arenas during prime time are about what they were in a moderate non-prime time before.

You can do everything you did before. No planes were removed from the set.

Why do you and yours think this was a pro- furballer move?:huh
Title: Re: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Sloehand on September 14, 2006, 05:51:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
3 things.

 Had you told me this change BEFORE you charged my account I would already have cancelled. You as the company I would have thought owed the community a little "head's up" because this is a drastic change. Instead you charge me $15 bucks and then promptly alter the game that I used to love so much. Not very professional...


This is a very good point about HiTech.  They are often very HiHanded in how they treat their customers.  Or, they just don't really think it through.  Your statement could apply to what happened when they ruined the DA a few months ago by turning Killshooter on.  They really don't seem to care that in spite of their "ultimate dream" for the game, they do have an obligation to the people who are paying to help them get there.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Surf35 on September 14, 2006, 05:52:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
I am pretty sure that all these problems were not HTCs intention and just more or less the ususal bugs. Guns, eny problems & such are correctable and I think they are not part of the "Plan"

maybe they can let us play for free till they get it figured out because you cant play right know with the way things are
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: stickpig on September 14, 2006, 05:52:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
We've never called this a test or beta.

Early mid and late are relative terms.  As things are split up now, it's generally a mid period of mid 42 to early 44 with early and late being outside of that.  As with many things, I'm sure this will evolve over time.


Why is the Spit 8 perked in mid war era?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Lusche on September 14, 2006, 05:54:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by stickpig
Why is the Spit 8 perked in mid war era?


Maybe because it came quite late in mid war era & has the performance of a spit 16?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MWL on September 14, 2006, 06:00:17 PM
Greetings,

  You are correct Pyro, I flew a N last night in late war - chased and was chased by LA7s, shot down by a Spit XVI and a 109K.  Seems like old times! :)

  We happen to own a small store in a small town.  Everybody wants to tell you how to run your business, what to carry, etc . . . .   After few 'unique' recommendations it dawned on me, I gotta do what I think is right, not what other people think is right.  After all, I am the one paying the price for being wrong, or collecting the reward for being right!

  Great game, I am here - end of line.

Regards,
Title: Re: Re: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 14, 2006, 06:02:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sloehand
This is a very good point about HiTech.  They are often very HiHanded in how they treat their customers.  Or, they just don't really think it through.  Your statement could apply to what happened when they ruined the DA a few months ago by turning Killshooter on.  They really don't seem to care that in spite of their "ultimate dream" for the game, they do have an obligation to the people who are paying to help them get there.


I strongly disagree.

Name another software company where you can talk to the owners and lead programmers just by picking up the phone. Or where you can email and get a response the same day. Or where programmers will actually help you get the software running. Or where the lead designer will take ideas to the group and actually listen when he hears one he likes. (Look at the original ENY threads.)

DO NOT make the mistake of confusing "responsive management" with "wont make a decision unless I approve of it." Leadership by committee fails, every time. Thats why armies have generals, and companies have CEO's.

There comes a time when the guy in charge makes a call. When he sees what needs to be done, and uses his skills and judgement to decide. Thats the way it should be.

And while you're busy slamming, dont forget ...while its a game to you, its his business, his source of income, and his future. He piled his money into the hopper to get it started. If he ignored his customers' interest, the company would have died long ago.

SO do you really think he's going to blow off what's best for his customer out of sheer arrogance? No way...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Overlag on September 14, 2006, 06:02:23 PM
why didnt HTC just make two MA's

1:
one with large maps, and all planes with a 600 cap.
basicaly the standard MA

2:
one with small maps, and early planes (39-43) with a 400 cap.
a new arena, with the only small maps... some people prefer the smaller maps... And they still get a good range of planes.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lambo31 on September 14, 2006, 06:02:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I don't get it...  

How can 30-40 players not be fun in the new arenas when that many in the AvA is allmost crowded and action packed?

Is is attitude?   Is it that the AvA has a lot of closer fields and that the people tend to go to where the fight is?

Is it that the AvA has a two sided war?

I am sure it is a little of all those things.

What I see is people trying to fly old MA in the new arenas... people not adapting yet....  guys in hurries acting like they are in la7's   high fights when a high fight is worthless...

attempts to runnway dive and vultch a few riskless kills end up with the ack blowing their early war ride out of the sky....

All for the best in my opinion... those things were what was ruining the gameplay anyway..  

Now.. 8 guys trying to shut down a field and vultch end up getting slaughterd and... they find that they can't even run home.. they get caught.

adjustments to gameplay will follow... poor newbies that were absorbed into mega squads and so..... never learned a thing will..... learn the new ways and the good fights will make em better and more respected and a stronger community.   newbies will learn that the HO and the runway dive and whorde not only don't work but...  never were any fun to begin with compared to actualy participating in some acm.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's



Lazs hit it on the head!!  Good post sir!!


Lambo
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: thndregg on September 14, 2006, 06:05:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by USRanger
Yes, the furballers did win, because they cried the longest & loudest.  Now THEY are the one's trashing people on the threads who don't want to play their way.  Go figure.



Reminds me of the Clantons and the Erps.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Sloehand on September 14, 2006, 06:11:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
I am pretty sure that all these problems were not HTCs intention and just more or less the ususal bugs. Guns, eny problems & such are correctable and I think they are not part of the "Plan"


Don't think I said that they were... and I don't know that they weren't.  All I said was people are getting very unhappy over them.  The rub is, that that is on top of people already being upset over the change or other problems.
I, personnally, have enjoyed some of the changes this brings.  I'm perfectly willing to give it a chance and see how it works.   Generally, I like having choice.  I just have very little confidence that HiTech will make proper corrections if needed.  What they will do, is smash a hammer on what they don't like, not focus on what the customer enjoys.
Overall, my problem is the way it's being implemented, especially with no notice whatsoever.   It's like putting money down on a car, then going to pick it up and being told "Surprise, you get this model instead of the one you originally bought!"  (Yes, a bit of an extreme analogy, but some do feel that strongly about loggin on to a big surprise)
What really chaps me though is the stated purpose of conditions imposed to manipulate my gameplay, i.e. purposely low arena limits.  I don't change countries.  I won't go elsewhere to fight in planes I don't like.  And I won't play or pay if I can't play with my friends and squadmates.
I'm probably a fanatic about this, but I hate unwarranted coersion, intimidation or behavioral modification in a product that I'm paying for.  HiTech doesn't seem to realize they are bucking the social nature of people in some of these things.  Half the allure for a great many is the ability to play the game with whomever you choose, whenever you choose, and however you choose.  Restrict that and just the ability to fart around in an online virtual airplane sim is much less appealing/addicting to a great many.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MAG1C on September 14, 2006, 06:16:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
It seems most of those in favor of the new format have been here 2+ years, and most of those opposed to change are newer.

Am I the only one noticing that trend?

 


Agreed !!  I'm amazed at the number of posts about this subject and the arena arrangement that's only been in use for a day.  For those complaining about the "empty" arenas, give it some time.  People will be shifting around to find the arena and plane set they find most challenging or comfortable.  The Early War Arena was at the top of the arena logon list so of course it initially got the most players.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Max on September 14, 2006, 06:19:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
why didnt HTC just make two MA's

1:
one with large maps, and all planes with a 600 cap.
basicaly the standard MA

2:
one with small maps, and early planes (39-43) with a 400 cap.
a new arena, with the only small maps... some people prefer the smaller maps... And they still get a good range of planes.


Add a FT area to one or both and everyone might be happy.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Lusche on September 14, 2006, 06:22:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MAG1C
For those complaining about the "empty" arenas, give it some time.  People will be shifting around to find the arena and plane set they find most challenging or comfortable.  



But there are still 3 arenas for (for example) about 100 - 150 people total. You wont see a rapid increase in players at non-us times.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Sloehand on September 14, 2006, 06:25:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
I strongly disagree.

Name another software company where you can talk to the owners and lead programmers just by picking up the phone. Or where you can email and get a response the same day. Or where programmers will actually help you get the software running. Or where the lead designer will take ideas to the group and actually listen when he hears one he likes. (Look at the original ENY threads.)

DO NOT make the mistake of confusing "responsive management" with "wont make a decision unless I approve of it." Leadership by committee fails, every time. Thats why armies have generals, and companies have CEO's.

There comes a time when the guy in charge makes a call. When he sees what needs to be done, and uses his skills and judgement to decide. Thats the way it should be.

And while you're busy slamming, dont forget ...while its a game to you, its his business, his source of income, and his future. He piled his money into the hopper to get it started. If he ignored his customers' interest, the company would have died long ago.

SO do you really think he's going to blow off what's best for his customer out of sheer arrogance? No way...


Simaril-

Far too difficult in this medium to get much more involved in this.  I'll just say, I've watched HiTech's responses to a number of issues, both verbally in here, and through their actions.  While there have been things I've wanted them to do or not do, my main complaint was how little they seemed to care about how a LARGE number of people felt about an issue.  It's more often their approach and technique, and yes, sometimes their inane reasoning for why they do/don't do something.
I know this is their living, which is why I'm so confused.   There have been times when I've felt like they are thumbing their nose at us.  It's like they're saying, "We're gonna do it this cause we don't want to be bothered otherwise, and we don't care if anyone or everyone doesn't like it.  You'll keep paying no matter what."
And yet, I know this can't really be their true attitude.  I mean I know this is basically a good company.  I just don't understand how this company can be so paradoxical.  The concept is great, even fantastic.  And customer service for connection problems, etc. is great too.  It's after that that their attitude elludes me.   I know this is a tremendous headache, trying to manage an addiction for several thousand people, but their style and approach seems so wrong sometimes.
Title: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: TinmanX on September 14, 2006, 06:26:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
....a couple of things in the pipeline that we believe will provide an influx of players.



I'm taking this to meaning Combat Tour is almost out and that is where the influx of players is coming from?
Title: Re: Re: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MAG1C on September 14, 2006, 06:27:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sloehand
This is a very good point about HiTech.  They are often very HiHanded in how they treat their customers.  Or, they just don't really think it through.  Your statement could apply to what happened when they ruined the DA a few months ago by turning Killshooter on.  They really don't seem to care that in spite of their "ultimate dream" for the game, they do have an obligation to the people who are paying to help them get there.


I'll have to disagree strongly about this point.  I my opinion HTC is very involved with this game, observing what is going is going on and listening to the players.  Unlike a previous on-line flight sim that I played which had a corporate mind set. To them it was a only one business of many.  They made major program updates, without notice, just before scenarios were started (driving the scenario command staffs crazy with performance changes and bugs).  In short, in comparison HTC is a pleasure to work with.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Triumph on September 14, 2006, 06:28:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by cav58d
Like I said...HTC...I challenge you to re-open the old MA, and let the community speak for its self...If after 24 hour's the #'s are still evenly distributed, and the old MA doesnt get the support I imagine it would then I think it will shut all of us up, and we will accept this new change....BUT...If the old main arena becomes the dominant arena for those 24 hours then I think you are seeing a mandate from the people who feed you every night....  I think its worth a shot...does anyone else agree?



indeed
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Dichotomy on September 14, 2006, 06:30:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MAG1C
Agreed !!  I'm amazed at the number of posts about this subject and the arena arrangement that's only been in use for a day.  For those complaining about the "empty" arenas, give it some time.  People will be shifting around to find the arena and plane set they find most challenging or comfortable.  The Early War Arena was at the top of the arena logon list so of course it initially got the most players.


Wow.. every now and then there's a post that makes me go.. :confused:

okay not the right icon but ya... 2.5 months in the game now.  Had I found this site yesterday I honestly would have wondered what all the fuss was about.  I would have gone about doing my thing the way I did when I first signed on and would have probably sucked just as badly.

For all of you who do not like the change, and trust me there are things about it I don't like, may I suggest giving it a couple of weeks to see how things shake out?

Since the commercials on the Military Channel started up there has been a large influx of 'new blood' and you never know.  Perhaps ALL of the arenas will fill up with this new blood and everybody will be happy.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: K-KEN on September 14, 2006, 06:33:47 PM
I, for one,  find it a unique challenge and a learning experience because it breaks the "habits" of flying just a few rides and forces us all to be more flexible.  I like flying different planes and it sure makes it hard to try and learn the 109-E4 when you are surrounded by LA-7's, C-202's, 205's etc,  you get my meaning...
The MA had a number of players dedicated to a specific plane or vehicle and they are now rethinking their ride, tactics and all!  Bravo HTC.

Now, to add back to the match or mix....... what about adding NIGHT TIME!!  Yes, a strictly Night OPS Arena.  Rotate it like the others but model it say, early models this week, mid models next week, late models the following week and the 4th week....the old MA format with everything turned on! (except the sun) :O  ...it shall never see the light of day! . . . ever!!  Dark all the time.... :t  (I know, not all planes are night fighters or bombers-we night owls don't care and those who don't like it can leave!!) It's a great opportunity for night tactics too!
I made a movie  :)   Hog Night Out (http://www.kkenshome.com/media/HogNiteOut.wmv)
:aok :aok

K-KEN  
High Flight (http://www.kkenshome.com/media/highflight.wmv)
http://www.cutthroats.com/

(http://www.webdesignbyken.com/images/CMCsmall.gif)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: NCLawman on September 14, 2006, 06:36:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by USRanger
Yes, the furballers did win, because they cried the longest & loudest.  Now THEY are the one's trashing people on the threads who don't want to play their way.  Go figure.


Couldn't have said it better myself.:aok

I am trying to give the new arenas a fair chance.  But, when I log on between 6:30 and 7:30pm and find only 75 people on (except for the early arena which is full and closed)  there is very little to excite me.  One must remember that when there are only 75 people on, if they were distributed evenly, that is only 25 people per side for the entire map.  

I just flew around for more than an hour looking for a fight.  The only other planes I could find were the ones that were vulching the field I upped from.  Oh, I thought you said this great fix was going to put an end to "field vulching."  Not hardly... Field vulching is now easier as there is less people to up and hold it.  Now one or two planes seem to be able to hold a steady cap.  

So far, my assessment of this "miracle" change is the opposite of what it was supposed to be.  The "better one-on-one" fights are now less and I am finding that no one wants to fight other planes.   The only thing I have seen is the field vulching.  If they can't have the vulch... they run like 6 year old school girls.  Isn't this what the big complaint was before?  At least before we had the numbers to defend and we had the numbers to herd the little sheep back to the pasture to be killed.

My assessment... the late war arenas are about as exciting as watching turtles hump; and, the early war arena is always full.
Title: Am I the only one that feels this way?
Post by: Triumph on September 14, 2006, 06:37:41 PM
Re: Am I the only one that feels this way?


Ok...this multi-arena thing os ok but I think they should have left the main arena as it was. I can't find the guys in my squad. I've got to search 5 arenas every 15 min and try to round them up. I cought one guy taking bases in the arena with 6 people in it, another bombing deserted strat-targets, and another HO-ing everything in sight with a HURRI-2C in the early arena.

Bring back the main arena...and keep the extra arenas for the 2% that actually want them.

If an arena is full...I cant even get in to round up the guys in my squad.

Am I the only one that feels this way?
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Dichotomy on September 14, 2006, 06:38:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sloehand
Simaril-

Far too difficult in this medium to get much more involved in this.  I'll just say, I've watched HiTech's responses to a number of issues, both verbally in here, and through their actions.  While there have been things I've wanted them to do or not do, my main complaint was how little they seemed to care about how a LARGE number of people felt about an issue.  It's more often their approach and technique, and yes, sometimes their inane reasoning for why they do/don't do something.
I know this is their living, which is why I'm so confused.   There have been times when I've felt like they are thumbing their nose at us.  It's like they're saying, "We're gonna do it this cause we don't want to be bothered otherwise, and we don't care if anyone or everyone doesn't like it.  You'll keep paying no matter what."
And yet, I know this can't really be their true attitude.  I mean I know this is basically a good company.  I just don't understand how this company can be so paradoxical.  The concept is great, even fantastic.  And customer service for connection problems, etc. is great too.  It's after that that their attitude elludes me.   I know this is a tremendous headache, trying to manage an addiction for several thousand people, but their style and approach seems so wrong sometimes.


Sloehand.. have you ever attempted to address the desires, needs, wants, etc, of several thousand people?   I have and trust me it's a headache on it's best day.  I've never personally interacted with any of the staff of HTC other than to change my callsign but, from people I know and trust, it's a group of people trying to put out the best product they can.  Sometimes they are going to make decisions that aren't popular with some people and those people are going to gripe.  Perhaps in the gripes there are little gems that can be added to the mix but generally there are reasons for not doing so.  

For instance take a look at Simarils thread on bomber modeling (this forum).  That is a very well thought out, reasonable, and realistic, request.  Guess what?   It's not going to happen today.

Keep in mind there are only so many hours in a day, week, year, and it looks to me that the hours at HTC are pretty full.  

Give your suggestions and gripes but with the realization that even if it makes sense and is realistic to you you are not the person that has to implement the change or make the decision to 'p*** off' a segment of the membership that doesn't like it that way.

Looks to me like there's around 4000 people that play and about 200 that post on these boards.  Newsflash everybody we're about .05 percent of the populace.  

The boards are a place to get the vibe but they apparantly aren't representative of the membership at large.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Vudak on September 14, 2006, 06:38:33 PM
I think this is wonderful :)

Then again I also think the late war arena should have all planes enabled for those who like taking a Hurri I or whatever up against Lala's.

95% of the people in that arena will probably just stick to the late war planes, anyway, so I don't think it will turn anything into a "mini-MA" anymore then having a La7 enabled already has.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Triumph on September 14, 2006, 06:41:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MAG1C
I'll have to disagree strongly about this point.  I my opinion HTC is very involved with this game, observing what is going is going on and listening to the players.  Unlike a previous on-line flight sim that I played which had a corporate mind set. To them it was a only one business of many.  They made major program updates, without notice, just before scenarios were started (driving the scenario command staffs crazy with performance changes and bugs).  In short, in comparison HTC is a pleasure to work with.



I agree this is why I offer my opinion.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 999000 on September 14, 2006, 06:43:25 PM
OK hitech tell me the data you use to meassure the health??? of the areana? Like to know which questions you asked yourself? seriously.
Pyro You state alot of people like the changes...will you please go and tally the positive ones from the negative and see how the percentages break down? before you state "alot of people like the changes?" Or I will do it for you if you like!..Need some objectivitiy here.
999000
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Saxman on September 14, 2006, 06:46:58 PM
The only thing the new arena format seems to have ACTUALLY changed is who's angry about not being able to fly their ride.

Wasn't this supposed to stop the proliferation of "I can't fly what I want because !" followed by  "Oh suck it up and just deal with it?"
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Eagler on September 14, 2006, 06:57:50 PM
just got back from a sortie in early war - thanks again for the changes!!!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Slash27 on September 14, 2006, 07:08:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Slash: with a touch of luck, tommorow.

HiTech
:aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Toad on September 14, 2006, 07:09:52 PM
Maybe this is just HT's way of seeing what they players really want without all the smoke and mirrors.

If the majority of the players want in the Early arena, that surely tells them something, doesn't it?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: VgasX on September 14, 2006, 07:10:22 PM
With players spreading out, we are aware of the need for better tools to find and communicate with your buddies. We will be working on some new tools to handle this but for now that can be accomplished with the squadron message of the day. (MOTD). The squad MOTD will reach across all the Main Arena’s so the squad leader can be sure that everybody knows where to go on a given night.

Will we be able to edit who has access to MOTD for the squad? So when I'm not on my xo or one of my officers can post.:aok
Title: Re: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 14, 2006, 07:14:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179


3)If the caps don't go back up to around 500 or more on an arena, I am gone. Had you told me this change BEFORE you charged my account I would already have cancelled. You as the company I would have thought owed the community a little "head's up" because this is a drastic change. Instead you charge me $15 bucks and then promptly alter the game that I used to love so much. Not very professional...


Whether the change is good or bad....

THIS is a HUGE point with me.....
Title: Re: Re: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Eagle Eye on September 14, 2006, 07:17:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Whether the change is good or bad....

THIS is a HUGE point with me.....



I agree You saw what happened when COKE simply just changed the formula without asking! they lost billons!!!!!!!

Secondly I have a friend thats a Big cheese w coke he said they are just now getting that consumer base they lost back!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Frodo on September 14, 2006, 07:17:37 PM
I love the changes.

It will be better for the newer player in the long run. When CT comes out, and If you get put in a plane you don't know anything about, you may be in trouble.

This will bring back a lot of players that left. :aok

Frodo
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: baine1 on September 14, 2006, 07:39:46 PM
To me the problem isn't that I can't ride my ride.
To me the problem is that I can't fight my fight.
If you read the posts, it seems this is what a majority of the people are complaining about.

Logging on and finding a fun environment to fight in has become a major hassle.
Logging on and finding the friends that you look forward to hanging out with has become a major hassle.



The old MA was great because with numbers so large, you could always find the style of gameplay you wanted, be it furball or land grabbing.
If one base was being hammered, you could always up at another and you still had a very good chance of finding a fight.

The sudden avalanche of complaints you're seeing here, in my humble opinion, is evidence of a bigger problem facing the game, a problem that has not been addressed by HTC, but is as important for the long-term health of this game as any they can make in the arenas.

That is that these boards have become dominated by a few players who will brook no deviation from what they consider the proper way AH should be played. They will flame, flame, flame until only there voices are heard.

And, unfortunately, HTC seems willing to not only let this continue, but also to take the voices of these people as the voice of the community.

A vast majority of the AH community can't be bothered with going to the boards. They happily log on and fly and have no care about what's said on the boards. IF you'd polled these people on sunday, none would have said changes needed to be made.
That is why AH is strong, because HTC had hit upon a formula that most of their customers liked and enjoyed. How could you not love being able to log on at anytime day or night, be virtually guaranteed to find a fight and have your choice of flying any plane that caught your fancy. were there problems? Yeah, but they were minor annoyances. People liked the big numbers. That's why the MA was always filled and the other arenas only attracted a minor number of people who wanted something else.

That is the reason people are complaining now, is because the formula they loved has been replaced with a formula that they don't like. They'd voted for many years on this by participating in the MA and not the peripheral arenas.

Even then, I think most people would have been willing to give changes a chance. But this plan was implemented in such a clumsy way that even people who were willing to give it a chance were immediately faced with major problems that made them flock to the boards to complain.

One common thread I see in the posts is disbelief that HTC didn't think things through to recognize even the most apparent problems that would be faced or, even more unbelieveable, knew the kind of problems that customers would encounter but didn't really care enough to address before implementing the system.
 Think of how many posts would have been avoided if the new system had included a simple way for squads to communicate.
Think of how many posts that would have been avoided if, instead of a series of new arenas, they'd decided to take a baby steps approach and created only two new arenas.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Irwink! on September 14, 2006, 07:43:19 PM
I may as well chime in...

First impression: changes are a monumental mistake!

That said, I haven't logged into the game other than to peek around. I suspect that's probably the case for alot of people. Point being, I don't really know and won't really have a feel for the changes until I have given it a chance. I'm at least going to give it a chance. Right now I think I'm going to eventually come away still thinking that "The New Coke" sucks. But I am going to give it chance. I have been known to be wrong. I don't advertise the fact, but it has happened every now and then. :D
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: PropNut on September 14, 2006, 07:45:46 PM
Ive had more fun today than anytime in the past 2 years...great fights with some great pilots (much like the early days of AH) in the mid war arena , actual fights to the end without 15 dweebs in LA7s blasting in for a quick cheap kill....fantastic:aok   This aint "New Coke"  this is giving us back our "Classic Coke"  I love it and wish it had been done years ago.  almost forgot .....its also such a relief to see ch 200 with very few internet tuff guys pounding their chest on how they coulda, shoulda ,woulda killed you.  Ohhh and Pass another Classic Coke :D
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: BTW on September 14, 2006, 07:48:27 PM
I don't think any company should listen to the 24/7 crowd. The only game that will satisfy them is something that will turn off the people that play 2 hours a day.

I was gonna come back, but took a look at it and said- "nah- ill get a 3rd job - it'd be easier and pay more!" :p

This game is extremely complex and not for casual gamers.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Yeager on September 14, 2006, 07:52:21 PM
well stated  Propnut.  

Im all for it.  Unfortunately some folk might need to go find a "funner" game somewhere else, but the new folks coming in will have a better experience starting off because of these changes.  HTC has figured that out apparently.

WTG HTC :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Triumph on September 14, 2006, 07:55:33 PM
Ok...this multi-arena thing os ok but I think they should have left the main arena as it was. I can't find the guys in my squad. I've got to search 5 arenas every 15 min and try to round them up. I cought one guy taking bases in the arena with 6 people in it, another bombing deserted strat-targets, and another HO-ing everything in sight with a HURRI-2C in the early arena.

Bring back the main arena...and keep the extra arenas for the 2% that actually want them.

If an arena is full...I cant even get in to round up the guys in my squad.

Am I the only one that feels this way?

or Should we say nothing?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Casper1 on September 14, 2006, 07:58:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert1
I think the EA is crowded because so many players have really wanted to try those planes but their ability to do so was hampered by having to deal with 1945 rocketships zooming them then running away. Over time I expect the balance to shift toward the late war, but for now early war is simply different. You have to admit that for six years the MA has pretty much been a late 44-45 arena for the most part.
 
Explain if you will how anything anywhere can "be over 100%" of the total.


What he said!  :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: PropNut on September 14, 2006, 08:00:33 PM
Quote
I cought one guy taking bases in the arena with 6 people in it, another bombing deserted strat-targets, and another HO-ing everything in sight with a HURRI-2C in the early arena


 Maybe your right we need a MA....  those guys are MA material for sure.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Max on September 14, 2006, 08:03:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Triumph
Ok...this multi-arena thing os ok but I think they should have left the main arena as it was. I can't find the guys in my squad. I've got to search 5 arenas every 15 min and try to round them up. I cought one guy taking bases in the arena with 6 people in it, another bombing deserted strat-targets, and another HO-ing everything in sight with a HURRI-2C in the early arena.

Bring back the main arena...and keep the extra arenas for the 2% that actually want them.

If an arena is full...I cant even get in to round up the guys in my squad.

Am I the only one that feels this way?

or Should we say nothing?


My vote is "say nothing" Your rhetoric now occupies 8 threads. Thank you...we know how you feel.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Donzo on September 14, 2006, 08:09:51 PM
So here's what I don't understand.
From what I can see on the boards, the early war arena is full most of the time with the other two arenas being mostly empty.  So what does this provide for the influx of new players?  
It leaves them the choice of arenas filled with late war planes.  Isn't this counter productive to the thought by many of the furballers that people should "learn" something about fighting besides flying fast planes and running?  Or hiding in the horde?  Or mastering the ho?
It also leaves them disgruntled because they download the game and give it a try only to find nearly empty arenas with no fights or a concentration of vulchers...or a full arena.  Wow what fun!

I say split the difference and have just two arenas...one early war, the other the MA as it was.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Domin on September 14, 2006, 08:13:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by goldelks
Its simple for me.........

1. Can I live with it? Yes.
2. Do  l like it?          No.
3. Is there anything we can do about it?   No.
4. Will i try and look at the positives on this change?. Yes
5. Do I think this is going to hurt larger squads in the game. YES.
6. Do i think this will settle the "hoard" problem? No.
7. Will things go back to the old way? Most likly not.

    Dear HTC community,

         I know old habbits die hard. I know this change came on VERY fast. I relise that it has improved game play and hurt it at the same time. I know the "loners" dont mind, while at the same time I know the large squads are upset. Please lets bear with it and at LEAST give it a week or so, before we make are final judgement. Intill then lets hope for the best, and that what ever HTC decidedes to do is in the best intrence for the community.

              All
              and please lets jsut give it a chance
                   P.S. if it matters I do not like the change.


HTC will find a good medium. Just a little time. Now when they turn into CRS (ww2ol) and have the attitude it's our game we will build it how we want it and it doesn't matter what you think then we are in trouble. But HTC really does care..
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 14, 2006, 08:19:58 PM
LOL....keep it coming boys...


Comedy Gold!![/COLOR]
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Gary26 on September 14, 2006, 08:29:52 PM
From what i see so far it dosent matter how many people like or dislike the old MA is gone. Too bad. I have talked to about 25 people (give or take a few) that have said they will cancel this game because of the change, myslef included. I have read all 17 pages of post's word for word. Although i cant give a good percentage most have been negative or atleast negative to the way it was done. Why not give us the old MA back until you guys (i.e. HTC) figure out how you will better make the transition. I would hate to quit but, i have had too many problems finding a good fight. One arena is full, the other is too lopsided and u cant fly good planes cuz of ENY or on country is ganging up on an empty arena for reset points. Why not just merge mid and late and make them another MA style arena and give the furballers the early war. It would be nice to see a response from staff on what is gonna happen, or atleast your ideas for the next week or so. I personally feel kind of snubbed by the lack of response from staff. I know HTC has heard the "dont forget who got u here" before, but we could use some input your thoughts and plans thus far. It is your lack of response that is getting some people upset. Please dont think i intend any disrespect because that is not the case. This game has made me many new friends, been my hobby for 5 years and almost cost me my marrige.(to bad my planned failed) Just need a little feed back from u so far.:aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SkyRock on September 14, 2006, 08:32:35 PM
I think just two "main" arenas would be great.  an early- mid arena and also a mid- late arena!  Perk all 4 cannon planes and let it ride!:aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Domin on September 14, 2006, 08:33:36 PM
Uh ok the increase of arena cap seems like a no brainer. Take away MA it's cool. But atleast let us get into the arena we want to play in. Don't say go to a different arena.. call me a "freak" but I want to play with my squad. Sorry to sound negative but trying to get in while being sent back to the desktop because it's full isn't my idea of a fun time.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FiLtH on September 14, 2006, 08:34:05 PM
Scares me when I hear that something has grown to a certain point and its time for change.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 14, 2006, 08:39:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gary26
I have talked to about 25 people (give or take a few) that have said they will cancel this game because of the change, myslef included.  


I can name that many who don't play because the game didn't change. 2 dozen out of 4 or 5 thousand isn't the end of the world, no matter how much you might hope.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: TexInVa on September 14, 2006, 08:48:54 PM
[soapbox]
There appear to be a few people who've become the voice of the Aces High subscribers. I'm glad that those chosen few can speak for the majority. It's good to know that everybody hates the changes and that they've elected you to voice their opinions.

That's bull.

I've read through both threads and I see those that hate the change use one tactic after another to try to get their way, from spouting economic ruin/ business suicide to complaining about squad trimming to flaming HTC for the plane sets to polling public opinion. And now I see that I apparently hate this change because I loose the ability to find the kind of game play I want because the MA has disappeared.

That too is bull.

What I'm reading here is 20-30 individuals throwing temper tantrums, some of whom have decided that they're going to spend their $15 on something else.

Bye.

But you won't go. Or if you do go, you'll be replaced. Either way, my game play hasn't changed.

You are a subscriber, paying for a service provided. If the service doesn't meet your expectations or you are dissatisfied, stop subscribing. I honestly doubt you're going to change anything. It's not for you to make decisions or dictate service.
[/soapbox]

I love the change. Why? Pick one reason from any one of the multitudes who like the changes. I like them all.

I think it's fantastic that I can fly my Zero or Spit-IX or TBM against other early war aircraft, get into a tangle or three and not worry about being cherry picked by some B-n-Z'n LA-7 or P-51 or N1K1 or Spit-XVI. What I thought sucked about the old arena was that to survive, I had to up the same rides. I don't like those planes.

I'm very satisfied with the new setup... :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Swager on September 14, 2006, 08:49:29 PM
Anybody got that Barbie fired up yet??

I got the beer!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Chalenge on September 14, 2006, 08:52:39 PM
I got one flight for my 50cents today. Tomorrow more likely to have even higher eny and no P51 to fly. The weekend will be even worse. I hope htc finds a solution soon.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Airscrew on September 14, 2006, 09:01:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
It seems most of those in favor of the new format have been here 2+ years, and most of those opposed to change are newer.
Am I the only one noticing that trend?
If you've been here any length of time you'd know that change has been constant.

Yes I have noticed that.   Some people havent been here long enough to remember when the MA cap was 200 or 250.  And I'm sure it was probably lower before I joined the game.   I suggest that those of you that dont like the change, that arent willing to experiment, that arent willing to learn new things, that arent willing to try something new, and that arent willing to find ways to compromise.   Leave my game. You're hogging up all the bandwidth with your whinning... no smiley here.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Bode on September 14, 2006, 09:08:56 PM
All you had to do was perk the freaking LA7 and Spit 16, Hell why not just make it Allies and Axis planes against each other with 2 countrys, like is the real War, Problem I see is that you listen only to yourselfs and not to your customers. :furious :furious
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Oldman731 on September 14, 2006, 09:09:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WMLute
If you have a Fw 190A-5 in Early War that was put out in  6-43

Heh.  Now you'll have the Kev factor in ALL of your arenas!

Heh heh heh.

- oldman
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Husky01 on September 14, 2006, 09:10:29 PM
Grits im here for your interainment!!!! but really jsut give it time all
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Gary26 on September 14, 2006, 09:12:40 PM
I have seen guyz that have been here from the start that dislike the chage. Its there company and they will do what they want or what they think is best. My question is what "complaints" prompted the change? Why not give  the early war furballers the early arena and combine the mid and late for MA type guyz. Only real problem i see with this is that guyz will start to whine in the early arena because of land grabbing just like they did in the AvA or CT. I am not against change! I think this one could have been thought out a little better. A fact finding forum, thenfigure out how to change it.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Lusche on September 14, 2006, 09:13:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bode
All you had to do was perk the freaking LA7 and Spit 14, :furious :furious


Spit 14 was already perked... ;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Oldman731 on September 14, 2006, 09:14:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NCLawman
I am trying to give the new arenas a fair chance.  

Call me skeptical.

- oldman
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Hawco on September 14, 2006, 09:15:43 PM
Think that whoever done/does the Marketing for HT better come up with a new hobby to do during the week, going by a lot of the posts in this forum.
I'm guessing that a lot of the young ones who fly will be seeking pastures new as they can't do what they used to be able to do.
Doesn't really matter what you think about the changes, it's done, but I would be watching that bottom line at the end of the Month if I was HT.

Can see the idea in trying to grow a  small business, especially were the main players of the company are so easy to reach via outlets such as these and so are up there to be fired at and I take my hat off to them in that regard.
It's one thing to have a hobby and do things for fun and make a bit of cash here and there, but it's another to grow that business into something that you can retire on.
Maybe they have a new marketing plan and their target customer is different from what they have right now? Maybe they are expecting a huge influx of new customers by as yet unseen marketing campaign?
either way, it'll be an interesting few weeks/months.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Hawco on September 14, 2006, 09:17:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gary26
I have seen guyz that have been here from the start that dislike the chage. Its there company and they will do what they want or what they think is best. My question is what "complaints" prompted the change? Why not give  the early war furballers the early arena and combine the mid and late for MA type guyz. Only real problem i see with this is that guyz will start to whine in the early arena because of land grabbing just like they did in the AvA or CT. I am not against change! I think this one could have been thought out a little better. A fact finding forum, thenfigure out how to change it.


Think what happened is a bunch of furballers turned up at the con and droned on for hours about the  need for change.
Just my guess mind you...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Oldman731 on September 14, 2006, 09:18:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TexInVa
I think it's fantastic that I can fly my Zero or Spit-IX or TBM against other early war aircraft, get into a tangle or three and not worry about being cherry picked by some B-n-Z'n LA-7 or P-51 or N1K1 or Spit-XVI. What I thought sucked about the old arena was that to survive, I had to up the same rides. I don't like those planes.

I'm very satisfied with the new setup... :aok

....hmmmm....

This is a man who needs to visit AvA.

- oldman
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: zorstorer on September 14, 2006, 09:19:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert1
. . .I think the EA is crowded because so many players have really wanted to try those planes but their ability to do so was hampered by having to deal with 1945 rocketships zooming them then running away. . .


Good lord it wasn't that hard to get kills and LAND them in the MA.  No need to vulch or pick from inside a horde either.   That was the great thing about getting kills in the old MA with the hurri mk1, if you got a kill, the enemy pilot messed up enough to let you kill them.  It was great.

Plus one other thing.  Can you put a something in that will change us to the arena automatically when we select a new ride?  Meaning if I am in the early and want to fly the 190f8 the program checks the arenas #'s if there is room is logs me in over there.  Would be nice to at least get something that will let us "step" from one arena to another and know there is cap room.  Just a thought ;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 14, 2006, 09:21:15 PM
My fingers are starting to tremble.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: TexInVa on September 14, 2006, 09:24:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
....hmmmm....

This is a man who needs to visit AvA.

- oldman


I tried it. Wide open spaces, nobody around. I got excited when I read about it, then spent a couple of days trying to find a fight.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Vad on September 14, 2006, 09:24:19 PM
HTC!
It's nice to have ENY adjusted but I was sure that ENY based on players in flight not logged in. Now it's clear that I was wrong. Right now (10:15 PM EST) on middle war arena:

Bish      41  30 34.5%  7.2
Knight  53  28 44.5%  28.4
Rooks  25  22 21%      0.0

(Screen shot is available upon request)
It was not so important when numbers were out of sky but now... it looks not so good.
Hey, recalculate ENY limit even on my old laptop takes less than microsecond!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: RTR on September 14, 2006, 09:24:50 PM
Gary25, sorry but 25 people out of several thousand is a drop in the bucket.

Granted, I haven't been able to log in for a week (work commitments), but frankly the MA was stale. Couple that with the amount of people "in game or on account" the move HTC made seems logical to me.

There is an opportunity here (because of the large player base) to expand the game.  HTC is a business, and that's the name of the game. Aces High needs to grow, and has needed to grow bigger for a while now IMHO.

Hang out for a while and see what the changes bring. I can guarantee you that Dale & Company are going to supply the best online combat flight sim for at least until I un-subscribe (and you can pry Aces High out of my cold dead hands).

People don't like change...we are a pack animal much like wolves. But we adapt and progress. That's why we are at the top of the food chain today.

So....lets see where this goes...AH IS the top of the online combat flight sim food chain.

Give it a bit...see what evolves.

just my humble $.02

RTR
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Airscrew on September 14, 2006, 09:30:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gary26
My question is what "complaints" prompted the change?

Gary did you read the beginning of this thread?
Pyro sayz
Why did you make this change?

We made this change because it will allow us to support an unlimited amount of players in a much healthier online environment that gives us better long-term growth. The single MA has grown to the point of being unhealthy. This is not a subjective evaluation, it is quantifiable and they are numbers that we look at every day. Its obvious that we simply cannot keep pumping more players into a single arena without hitting a stagnation point.


Quote
Hawco Think what happened is a bunch of furballers turned up at the con and droned on for hours about the need for change.
Just my guess mind you...

That would be a wrong guess...:rolleyes:

Its has been said by many of us, Laz, RTR, TexInVa, etc... you have to give it some time.  Hitech and Co will tweak it and all will be right in the world again.   Fear not you dweebs...
And Yes Propnut,  as I see it this is the return of Aces High of old, the way it used to be before HT lowered the price from $30 to $15
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 14, 2006, 09:30:04 PM
That kind of attitude wont be tolerated in here RTR! The sky is falling, cant you see it!?!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Fencer51 on September 14, 2006, 09:38:00 PM
Well the change was most likely made because they are testing their new infrastructure for CT or TOD or whatever it is called now.  Likely CT will require multiple "arenas" to maintain the mission setup, after all you cannot have 10 major bombing strikes all airborne at once.  That is not very realistic.  Missions will likely up every half an hour and 4 or more servers will be needed to rotate in players.

They are therefore attempting to gain some favor with the whiners who constantly try and tell the other guy that he cannot do or fly in the manor which his or her $'s allow him or her too.  While testing for their own nefarious purposes.

There, that's my conspiracy theory for the week.  :noid

Course it would have worked better if the missings planes and tanks required to make diversity in the early and mid war arenas had been added.

Oh, night 2 and I still don't like it FWIW.  Squadron split up and unable to find each other.  Eny troubles and mid war perk planes hoing and vulching early war planes as bad as the LA7s and Spit16s.  It isn't the arena that is a slum, its the people who fly in an arena that turn it such.

Oh love the statement below, obviously a military historian.

Quote
Originally posted by TexInVa

I think it's fantastic that I can fly my Zero or Spit-IX[/i] or TBM against other early war aircraft[/i], get into a tangle or three and not worry about being cherry picked by some B-n-Z'n LA-7 or P-51 or N1K1 or Spit-XVI. What I thought sucked about the old arena was that to survive, I had to up the same rides. I don't like those planes.

I'm very satisfied with the new setup... :aok
 :rofl :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Gary26 on September 14, 2006, 09:38:36 PM
Regarless of people quiting or not its not our company and the changes are here to stay. More like 18 pages of beating a dead horse. The concept needs to be re-planned. I dont wanna fly early war but Late is full. None of my squaddies are in Mid war and there are only 25 people in late war 2. That is my whole gripe. Why so many dam arenas. Rather pointless i think. Ive talked to many of the early war guyz and they are in it for the fight, and thats great. Combine the other 3 and eliminate the "populatin" problems. I have stuck with this game from AH1, i just think the new format should have been implamented better.i.e. imput from customers. Looks to me like the complaints are all largely the same. over-populated, under-populated, lopsided etc. etc.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 999000 on September 14, 2006, 09:40:52 PM
GARY you got it ..Hitech doesn't!..I'm still waiting to hear what do they measure when they measure "health of the areana"
999000
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Airscrew on September 14, 2006, 09:49:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 999000
GARY you got it ..Hitech doesn't!..I'm still waiting to hear what do they measure when they measure "health of the areana"
999000

Hitech sticks a thermometor up your prettythang and takes your temperature.  :lol
It has been determined you are very ill  :t  and for our safety you will be removed from the general population.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: TexInVa on September 14, 2006, 09:51:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Fencer51


Oh love the statement below, obviously a military historian.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TexInVa

I think it's fantastic that I can fly my Zero or Spit-IX or TBM against other early war aircraft, get into a tangle or three and not worry about being cherry picked by some B-n-Z'n LA-7 or P-51 or N1K1 or Spit-XVI. What I thought sucked about the old arena was that to survive, I had to up the same rides. I don't like those planes.

I'm very satisfied with the new setup...  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  :rofl :aok


Is that all you have? You flamed me because I added the spit-9 to "early war" aircraft?

Hell, I know it was developed as a stop-gap to rumours about a luftwaffe uber-fighter that was heavily armoured and faster than anything that the Brits had. Which ended up being the fw-190. Fighter command was getting ready to put a stop to these rumours until a spit pilot brought back gun camera footage of the new plane.

What are you, 12?

I have had enough of this forum game. I have to work in the morning.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Frodo on September 14, 2006, 09:52:01 PM
This change and thread deserve a chapter in THE BOOK OF DWEEB. Where is Jedi when you need him! :cool:

Frodo
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: WilldCrd on September 14, 2006, 09:55:15 PM
Well i really like the change. Its been long overdo actually IMNSHO.
I remember when AH2 came out, i had been a tester for awhile and so i was used to the new "look". MANY MANY MANY people complained just  like   this.
People said it was to buggy, didnt like the FM, took to much of a FPS hit, got shot down to easy, couldnt shoot others down easy enough, ack is to strong, ect ect ect....
Change in a game like AH is inevitable, lots of ppl dont like change and often they are the same people who cry fo a change!! ussually the changes THEY want to make the game better are for THEM!
When i saw the new arena changes i immediatly jumped into the early war arena, to me this is where the more experienced or at least more enthusiastic, honorable  players will gravitate to. By that I mean players who IMNSHO use or at least try to use ACM, dont go for the HO, arent prone to "just" going for the easy kills but would rather ingage in a challanging fight. THere will ofcourse always be those that prefer the horde however and those that would rather HO, dive bombe in lancs and game the game to extreme.
MAny of the planes are also more challenging to get kills in for less experienced players...heck even for experienced players!
:O

In time the complaints and general whineing will die down.
True issues will be addressed in time. Things will settle down. some will leave, many will stay, and others will return or try it out for the 1st time.
Lots of us have been thru this in the past.

The thing that gets me the most tho is that HT and crew are making the effort. A fact that many of the naysayers are missing.  This is why i will continue to play, because HT will make changes to try and improve gameplay for the majority. Good or bad they make the effort, they do listen and they do act unlike MANY other games.
Not everybody will be happy with the changes, thats inevitable, but this game is constantly evolving wich tho painful at times is actually a good thing.


my 2 cents
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lambo31 on September 14, 2006, 10:12:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bode
All you had to do was perk the freaking LA7 and Spit 16, Hell why not just make it Allies and Axis planes against each other with 2 countrys, like is the real War, Problem I see is that you listen only to yourselfs and not to your customers. :furious :furious



He listened to a lot of customers. A lot of us have been asking for this for years.

Lambo
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ygsmilo on September 14, 2006, 10:15:14 PM
Only the long eared and unwashed will not like this change.

(bonus points for anyone who can name where this phrase came from)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: WilldCrd on September 14, 2006, 10:21:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by cav58d
htc...IS THERE any consideration to decreasing the lethality and hardness of ack in the early and mid war arenas????


If its the same as it was in the old MA......then WHY should it be changed?
you stated in another thread That your preffered ride was the hurri 2c so why should the ack  lethality be changed? This request doesnt make sense to me at all.

Also you requested all planes be available in the late war arena
Again i ask WHY? it would totaly defeat the purpose of the different arenas. everybody would just jump into the late war and continue SOP like in the old MA
Nothing personal cav, I know you have been around for awhile and franakly im suprised at some of your posts. Many of us have been thru changes like this before.
Things will settle down, twekes and slight changes will be made. And IF...
IF after some time HT sees data indicating things should change back or something else needs to be done....they will but, its gonna take some time.

As for the ack, i dont see why it should be changed. we dealt with it in the old MA the only diffence is that there isnt a horde flying wiht ya to draw its fire so you have to fly more evasive around it.
To me this is another GLARING indication that we needed this change. People had gotten to complacent and comfortable with things like flying withinrange of ack that historicly was very lethal.
Title: Can we change it?
Post by: Jolly on September 14, 2006, 10:24:10 PM
Can we change it?  NO
Most player seem to be in the EW, more often then not, due to it being the first on the list to enter.

Well lets get on with it!

One word of advice, if your side is out numbered, it will most likely going to lose the battle. So find a arena where your side has the most numbers and fight to win.

Since Pyro said this is the way it will be, that is the end of it and we are not going to get the MA back.
Title: Just an opinion
Post by: RAPIER on September 14, 2006, 10:32:46 PM
I am amazed at how much complaining is being generated at the very beginning of a totally new idea.  It is an attempt to improve, and if it isn't successful, guess what, it will revert.
Also:
1.  In the MA I flew the La7 when a base was being vulched or overrun, and fly other planes for different reasons.  Critizing those who fly something they want, no matter what the reason, is pretty stupid.  Is the La illegal or something?  Flying with 1, 2, or 3 people against 10 or more forces you to select a plane that gives you some chance to hold them off.
2.  The points being made that the MA was really a late model arena are correct.  You couldn't survive in early models.
3.  Not only should the arena's now in use be capped with lower numbers, the number from country to country should be controlled to prevent arena jumping just to score in an empty space.  Points awarded in an arena with less than "x" amount of competion should be reduced or eliminated somehow.
4.  The suggestion to change my country is out of order.  Who is anyone to tell me who I can fly/play with?  Never been in any other country since I started, except for one day, and I never plan to change. (I guess)
5.  Give it time, try to make it better, and enjoy.  Jeez, the crying about paying $15 is crazy.  3 coffees or two McD's cost that now.  Ever drive in NYC?  It cost almost $15 to make 2 R/Ts over a bridge.  Stop it, pay it, or don't cross the bridge are your choices.
Have a nice sortie!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 14, 2006, 10:33:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WilldCrd


Also you requested all planes be available in the late war arena
Again i ask WHY? it would totaly defeat the purpose of the different arenas. everybody would just jump into the late war and continue SOP like in the old MA.



Ah.. because if that happens... then the customers prefer the old MA.
The only thing it would defeat is a course of action that HTC has picked.  

What HTC has said in essence, is the cattle will go where they are used to going and we have determined that it isn't good for the cattle to do what they have habitually done.  So we will determine what is good for the cattle and protect them from themselves.
Title: Re: Can we change it?
Post by: Simaril on September 14, 2006, 10:40:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Jolly
Can we change it?  NO
Most player seem to be in the EW, more often then not, due to it being the first on the list to enter.

....snip


How stupid do you think players are? They pick where they WANT to be, they dont just click on the top of the list. If you're logic is right, then everyone would be buying the premium gas since its first button on the pump.

Even if it doesnt make sense to you, people are picking the early war arena because they want to be there.


 Another thing. I keep seeing that this change was done to favor the furballing minority. Would someone please explain how having 4 arenas helps the furballers? I just dont see it. Everything about the game mechnanics is 100% the same. Capture, mission, strat, everything's the same. The smaller numbers arent different from non- peak MA.

Where exactly IS the crisis????
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: zorstorer on September 14, 2006, 10:41:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Ah.. because if that happens... then the customers prefer the old MA.
The only thing it would defeat is a course of action that HTC has picked.  

What HTC has said in essence, is the cattle will go where they are used to going and we have determined that it isn't good for the cattle to do what they have habitually done.  So we will determine what is good for the cattle and protect them from themselves.


Nice way to put it :)


:aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Dichotomy on September 14, 2006, 10:42:32 PM
TexInVa


Couldnt have said it better myself and subsequently will no longer address the subject.  

All of you who are considering AH suicide please get on with it and quit telling everybody who doesn't care if you do about it.  PM your online friends and say goodbye so, when 80% of you are back in 3 to 4 weeks, you don't look foolish to the community at large.  

It's a GAME and it's the INTERNET there's a REAL WORLD OUT THERE JUST A WAITING ON YOU.  

However this last request... if you're the type to commit game / internet suicide because you couldn't ride out a few rough bumps then please don't breed.  The gene pool is polluted enough as it is.

Lastly, and this is just a generalization, u does NOT equal YOU...  yes a lot of people grade your intelligence based on your spelling.  If you're going to try to make a strong point at least take the time to copy and paste it into word and use spell check.  When I see 'u' you are already dismissed as a lazy idiot.
Title: Re: Re: Can we change it?
Post by: Dichotomy on September 14, 2006, 10:44:27 PM
*snip
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril


Where exactly IS the crisis????


well there is that thing about the low balance in my checkbook but other than that .. umm let me think :lol
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: WilldCrd on September 14, 2006, 10:46:24 PM
QUOTE]Originally posted by Bode
All you had to do was perk the freaking LA7 and Spit 16, Hell why not just make it Allies and Axis planes against each other with 2 countrys, like is the real War, Problem I see is that you listen only to yourselfs and not to your customers. :furious :furious [/QUOTE]

:rofl :rofl :rofl
Its posts like these that really crack me up!!

i keep getting this vision: a 10yr old throwing a tempertantrum like this-
Dont know how to express myself guess ill plop down screaming, kicking my legs and swinging my arms to get my way !!!:cry

all day i have been popping in reading some of the posts in this and a few other threads and more and more the posts are degenerating into ones like the one i just quoted :lol :aok
Title: Re: Re: Can we change it?
Post by: E25280 on September 14, 2006, 10:48:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
How stupid do you think players are? They pick where they WANT to be, they dont just click on the top of the list. If you're logic is right, then everyone would be buying the premium gas since its first button on the pump.
Only one way to find out for sure . . . Change the order so that the mid war arena is at the top.

And we will see in a month or so whether people are chosing early war vs any other period because they want it perminantly, or because of the novelty.  Lots of people flew AvA for a while as a novelty (new map, RPS, etc.), then all went back.  Same may occur with this setup.  Jury is out.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: cav58d on September 14, 2006, 10:55:08 PM
I like flying all types of airfraft...As of recent, I definately prefer early war...The only reason I have gone into the early war arena 90% of the time since the change isnt because I prefer early war planes though...It's because it has the largest #'s in there...

I have to say tonight was the most boring experience I have ever had in AH...I was logged in the early war arena for maybe an hour and a half, and only flew 15 minutes of that time....The rest of the time was spent BSing about RL aviation and the NFL with friends...blahhh this is boring...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: WilldCrd on September 14, 2006, 11:02:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Ah.. because if that happens... then the customers prefer the old MA.
The only thing it would defeat is a course of action that HTC has picked.  

What HTC has said in essence, is the cattle will go where they are used to going and we have determined that it isn't good for the cattle to do what they have habitually done.  So we will determine what is good for the cattle and protect them from themselves.



well we deffinatly disagree but thats ok.
Im big into a good conspiracy but, HTC isnt the govt. and this isnt a big brother control the populace and we decide what s and isnt good for ya.

You dont like the changes, we get that. but dont turn this into some conspiracy thing.

Haveing a late war arena with all planes enabled WOULD defeat the whole purpose of splitting up the MA. I have been playing since way back in AH1 and AW. the MA was more than just stale it was boring! I enjoy pretty much all aspects of the game from furballing to GVing to doing bomber runs.
The Ma had degenerated to a fat mass of hordom, ho tards and divebombers
people didnt "play" anymore they enganged in scorewhoring, whining on 200 and playing intardnet toughguy.  The enjoyment level of the game had dropped quit a bit for a LARG number of players across the board. People from all areas of play


When ya get right down to it we can sit here and complain, counter complain and specualate all day and night. HT on the other hand has   hard data, on numbers, from amount of players, what planes were used when  and god knows what else.
ALOT of ppl have been screaming for a change, everybody has there own idea of what needed to be done. HT took a looooong time making this decision, you can tell cause it took so loong for anything to be changed. If after awhile it dont work it will change to something else, either to ma of old or something different.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: WilldCrd on September 14, 2006, 11:05:30 PM
well cav i dont know what to tell ya then, i logged on earlier and was hopping a few arena's to just check out things. everytime i upped i had a fight. TBh tho im not a big chatter type when im on. If ppl arent on vox with me then i dont have time to watermelon chat, im there to fly, and fight ill BS on the BBS:cool:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Acheron on September 14, 2006, 11:10:18 PM
Just registered to throw in my 2c.

At first I was all "WTF did they do?" but it has grown on me.
I find it to be really nice to be able to have a decent fight over a base without someone upping a La-7 or Spit-16 and get rid of the fun, or seeing Typhies or La's flying into uncapped bases, vulching 2 or 3 guys to figure on the chat and then fly away.

I enjoy it much more now.
My only gripe is that EW needs a little bit more variety(like B-17C or E, Panzer III, etc.).

As for the people leaving, I think most of them will return after a while.
Title: Yawnnn!
Post by: Shuffler on September 14, 2006, 11:18:33 PM
I have read more on the BBS tonight than ever before. Since I can't fly in the Mid War arena with my Squad. ENY ENY ENY

Think I'll go watch Discovery Wings!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 999000 on September 14, 2006, 11:21:19 PM
People can say what ever they want,... the truth always lies in being able to demonstrate the truth ...show me the impression of what you speak..Hitech has said the main areana was unhealthy.....What was the critreria for measuring health? what questions were being asked? what data was actually used to determine the health?? In order for Hitech's premis to be true you need to demonstrate "show " the data?
I'd like to see the integity of the decision based on data....The way this was done was bad initself....old saying says if it walks like a sunk, looks like a skunk and smells like a skunk...its a SKUNK!
999000
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: LYNX on September 14, 2006, 11:23:43 PM
There’s a convergence of factors such as current arena health, player mass, time of year and a couple of things in the pipeline that we believe will provide an influx of players. Taken together, we believe this is the best time to make this transition.

May I start a rumour ?  Or take a guess at something :noid

I feel this "new" set up has been rushed.  Why would anyone piss off it's customers without  any carrots to hold them here ?

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury let us look at some facts..... No new down load ! No new planes !  No new inter arena squad channel !  Just a promise of "we'll get around to it"  The hall marks of a rush job.

AH 2 now ressembles a mish mash of other games we have played and left.

Now let us look at the defendants statement above BUT note these 4 very simple words   "an influx of players".

I put it to you the Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury the HTC is in the process of buying out another sim.  :noid  and is making our new targets  err team mates feel more at home with this type of arena set up.

Guilty or Not Guilty   HTC how do you plead ?
Title: The new format
Post by: gobucks on September 14, 2006, 11:29:51 PM
Just my 2 cents

(http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/5122/noproblemmb2.jpg)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: JB89 on September 14, 2006, 11:31:00 PM
Pyro Did you ever think why it is not civil  i hope you can i know that you and Dale wont change what you guys have done i know dale thinking for every 1 old timer thats leaves 5 newbies will join it is a numbers games thats it sad to think that my self have been playen for 5 years from AH1 to this i understand change has to happen but change should happen for the good  back in AH1 i remember the big push for squads, now and i know this has olny been two days i have olny see my squad once because they fly diffrent plane sets early mid and me late so what do you think the format for squads will end up.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: WilldCrd on September 14, 2006, 11:31:57 PM
Quote
I put it to you the Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury the HTC is in the process of buying out another sim. and is making our new targets err team mates feel more at home with this type of arena set up.



thats a hefty rumor lol
what sim ya "think" they are buying?
was it rushed? well TBH every time HTC makes a big change some ppl say it was RUSHED!!

jury is still out
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: cav58d on September 14, 2006, 11:56:08 PM
http://snappoll.com/poll/130829.php

Please follow this link to vote on what type arena(s) you would like in AHII
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: RacrX on September 14, 2006, 11:58:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 999000
What was the critreria for measuring health? what questions were being asked? what data was actually used to determine the health?? In order for Hitech's premis to be true you need to demonstrate "show " the data?
I'd like to see the integity of the decision based on data....The way this was done was bad initself....old saying says if it walks like a sunk, looks like a skunk and smells like a skunk...its a SKUNK!
999000


If it was number of players online that determined "health" then the patient is critical.....I cant remember the last time I logged on at Midnight and saw less then 300 ppl on.....until tonight. The MA needs to come back, lots of people like the new format so KEEP IT in some format,  but this is a mess.

As a marketing major and a customer service manager I could point out all the fubars HTC commited with this "improvement" but I wont. I will speak with my $$$
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: mussie on September 15, 2006, 12:03:08 AM
Hey all

I have been busy at home so the first thing I knew about this was when I checked the BBS this morning at work....

Bearing in mind that I have not played this new format yet I think that it sounds very interesting....

But I think that everyone should consider the following

1- Nobody likes change.

2- There were problems with the old format (just do a search on dive bombing, toolsheader or LA7).

3- There will ALWAYS be teething problems when you impliment any sort of change I have faith that HT and Co will Tweak the different settings.

4- The HTC gang have been doing this stuff a lot longer than most (All..?) of us and this is how they pay the bills, so I think they know what they are doing and have considered there options carefully.

Perhaps it would be best if ppl noted the problems they encounter (take a screen dump) and email it to HTC with when where and why, this would allow them to make informed decisions about what is best for their bussiness. Either that or just flood this sticky with your opinions, mind you I really really really really really really really really doubt if HT and Co will read the whole thread so your input might get missed...

All
See you in one of the Virtual Sky's


P.S. PAY ATTENTION I said "sounds very interesting" wether this is correct will be determined  when I actually get to try it...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: RacrX on September 15, 2006, 12:06:09 AM
Double posting dork :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: mussie on September 15, 2006, 12:06:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RacrX
Double posting dork :)


Ahhhhh Bite Me X :p
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: stickpig on September 15, 2006, 12:07:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
Maybe because it came quite late in mid war era & has the performance of a spit 16?



The Mk. VIII was an adaptation of the Mk. VII without the pressurised cabin, and was intended to become the main production model of the Spitfire. In fact, by June 1943, it had all but replaced the Mk. IX.

http://www.answers.com/topic/supermarine-spitfire-variants

Seems like the Spit VIII was being used early 1943
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: KTM520guy on September 15, 2006, 12:17:43 AM
After two days it still sucks. Went on tonight looking for squadies. No such luck. The EA is always full during prime time. None in my squad like those birds anyway. Mid War was totaly dead. Maybe 50 or so people on. ENY values so screwed why even bother with this one. A few more on in Late War but no squadies to be found. My squad is big enough that there is always somebody on. They're all AH junkies. Right now I'm sure they're all rolled up in a ball in the corner going through withdrawl.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: soupcan on September 15, 2006, 12:19:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dichotomy


Couldnt have said it better myself and subsequently will no longer address the subject.  

 


can only hope so ..but i'm pretty sure you'll be back with more of
your self important drivel.

as far as the thread goes i am ok with changes.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 15, 2006, 12:20:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by WilldCrd
well we deffinatly disagree but thats ok.
Im big into a good conspiracy but, HTC isnt the govt. and this isnt a big brother control the populace and we decide what s and isnt good for ya.

You dont like the changes, we get that. but dont turn this into some conspiracy thing.

Haveing a late war arena with all planes enabled WOULD defeat the whole purpose of splitting up the MA.  


Well why would having all planes in a late war arena enabled defeat the purpose?

If, like you say, so many folks want a change... they have the other arenas with limited plane sets to fly in.  So those arenas would be populated with folks that want to fly like that, and the full plane set arena would be populated with the folks that like.. what was all that HO and tard stuff you said?

Not that our discussion changes anything... but the real message is just like I said.  They can't leave anything up that is like the old MA because the other "better" ideas might not fly.   To me that isn't anything close to free choice.. it is... "we will tell you what is good for you".

So we now have arena cap limits... so I don't have free choice to pick arena per se... I get in where the cap limit allows.   Then I have the choice of the planes "allowed" based upon what ever arena I could get in.  Then that choice is further limited by the ENY so I can use what is left or change my country.  

Oh.. and I spent the evening in EW ... and saw nothing more than horde fighting and folks in Spits trying to HO every chance they had.  The format has changed but the caliber of the pilots hasn't.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ded on September 15, 2006, 12:20:38 AM
I like the new format, however I think the earlier planesets need more fleshing out.  Having the f4 and a zeke as the only carrier fighters is very limiting, for example.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: AKWarp on September 15, 2006, 12:23:00 AM
I'm not interested in "getting used" to this new arena mess.  I pay my money because the game offered something I thought was worth paying my money for.  This isn't some lab experiment where we have no choice...it's a business and when the business does things the clientele doesn't like, those clientele go elsewhere.

I've played it since it started and so far I think it stinks.  MW and LW are a joke, maybe 40-50 people tops in there.  I'm sure it's great for all the furballers though as that's about all that gets done.

Of course, EW isn't much better, more people sure, but a big ball of spits and hurris doing nothing but flying in circles because they can't catch the buffs, and don't carry enough ord to do anything worth while other than furball.  Sure, sure, there's the "uber" 190A5, but it's a perky plane...it's the 262 of the EW arena.

Blah....I'm not liking this change one bit.  I usually log on and play for hours, now I get bored 30 minutes into it.

Unless something changes again, for the better IMHO, then I'm just gonna canx the account and go back to WOW or something.

I know, no big loss, what do you care, but hey...just pitching my 0.02 worth like everyone else...

p.s. The door is propped open, so it won't hit me on the way out...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: gatt on September 15, 2006, 12:31:42 AM
The EW player cap is low, AH2 hasnt enuff early war aircraft to fill the plane set decently and actually now there are some planes that should not be there ... a better move would have been to fill the holes in the planeset and then change the arenas structure ... but what the hell do we paying customers know? For sure the furballers have a great lobbying power in this game.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Sable on September 15, 2006, 12:37:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by stickpig
In fact, by June 1943, it had all but replaced the Mk. IX.

http://www.answers.com/topic/supermarine-spitfire-variants



That part appears to be incorrect.  In July 1943 the RAF had around 45 Spitfire squadrons based in Britain - not a single one was equipped with the Mk VIII (taken from this (http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/allied_1943_issue_I_pdf.zip) document which came from this (http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/tonywood.htm ) page).  The IX became the mainstay of the RAF in the second half of the war.

Mk V production - over 6000
Mk IX production - over 5000
Mk VIII production - over 1200

Sorry for the hijack.  I'll go back to lurking and you may now return to your regularly scheduled whining.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MIShill on September 15, 2006, 12:43:53 AM
The low numbers and imbalance may make this impractical. 14 v 8 v 6 in a tactical arena is a formula for toolshedding & vulching. Time will tell.......
-MI-
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Iron_Cross on September 15, 2006, 12:46:56 AM
Has anybody considered the fact that this is a good thing?

Consider the fact that most of the planes asked for in the wish list forum, were early and mid war rides.  Now we can have them and they not be hangar queens in the OLD style MA.  I mean seriously who would take out a F2A2 Buffalo when as soon as you leave the runway you get OWNED by a LA-7/Spit XVI/something that totaly outclassed you?  

The PTB have done this because they "expect an influx of new players"  Could it be that CT is getting close?  CT is the only thing on the block, that I can think of, that would draw new players.  

Everybody gets what they want.  As soon as CT comes out, we get new planes coded up, and they get placed in era specific arenas.  We get to fly in arenas where you don't have to face a horde of LA-7s, if you don't want to.  Everybody gets good fights, because the maps are small, and the numbers are small so no HORDE.  What is not to like about that?  

If the only way you can be happy is by geting your .22 perkies for shooting down that SpitI in your LA-7 and running home to mommie, I say get the Hel out of here and don't let the door hit your prettythang on the way out.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: WilldCrd on September 15, 2006, 12:51:33 AM
Well, I think there is also going to be a larg number of players that read the BBS , see all the negative stuff and dont even log in.
with any change there are going to be compramises i have faith HT will effect changes to get some of the bugs outlike the ENY thing. Ht has already stated they are going to implement a system to "talk/chat" across arena's
and take a hard look at the issues that have been brought up. paticularly when several ppl bring up the same exact issue. It wont all happen overnight, and it might not be the "fix" that SOME ppl want. It might not be what "some" want. and they might not address every single issue.

I do beleive that one thing we can all do as players is try to be proactive and effect change ourselves. one of the things i always liked about HTC and AH2 is that the players also can effect the way things work. By that I mean getting ppl together meeting up in a particular arena,  If there arent enough ppl in 1 arena then contact your squaddies, freinds whoever and get them together.
Dont just complain for what just YOU want but work together to make the game better for all, thereby making the game better for you
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: zorstorer on September 15, 2006, 12:51:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Iron_Cross
...Now we can have them and they not be hangar queens in the OLD style MA.  I mean seriously who would take out a F2A2 Buffalo when as soon as you leave the runway you get OWNED by a LA-7/Spit XVI/something that totaly outclassed you?...


It was very fun to spank the spit 16 with your trusty hurri mk1 :D  Now where do I go for my fun?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Guppy35 on September 15, 2006, 12:54:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sable
That part appears to be incorrect.  In July 1943 the RAF had around 45 Spitfire squadrons based in Britain - not a single one was equipped with the Mk VIII (taken from this (http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/allied_1943_issue_I_pdf.zip) document which came from this (http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/tonywood.htm ) page).  The IX became the mainstay of the RAF in the second half of the war.

Mk V production - over 6000
Mk IX production - over 5000
Mk VIII production - over 1200

Sorry for the hijack.  I'll go back to lurking and you may now return to your regularly scheduled whining.


VIII was intended for overseas use and never operated from England.  First ones finally getting to the squadrons in the MTO in mid 43 or so.  It NEVER replaced the Spit IX which remained in production longer then the VIII til the end of the war and was produced in far bigger numbers.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Furball on September 15, 2006, 12:58:24 AM
Never in the field of human whinage,
Was so much whine created,
By such dweebs,
By one small change.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 15, 2006, 01:08:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I don't think that one day of the new format is such a great way to judge.

People might go to a reencarnated MA right now because they know nothing else and haven't given this one a chance and...

say you are right (I don't think so but)  say you are right... say the new ma takes over and the new arenas are deserted....

How would no change at all solve all the problems that HT states he was trying to solve by the new arenas?

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
As Pyro has stated...there is no technical problem...and he also made it very clear that it (In thier opinion) there was a Community "SLUM" problem arising. So as you can plainly see...They say they are giving us a choice..when in fact if Arena caps prevent any single player from playing with whom, playing where, and in what plane he desires..he now has the choice of logging off...or letting HTC decide those things for him/her.
This can not be disputed...this is in fact the fact as Pyro has made it clear.
HTC has always been against balancing the sides by means of forcing players to a particular country. They have always stated that they dont want to "Force" or prevent someone from flying whith thier buds. :confused:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Iron_Cross on September 15, 2006, 01:08:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by zorstorer
It was very fun to spank the spit 16 with your trusty hurri mk1 :D  Now where do I go for my fun?


HE HE HE!  Yea that is fun, but now it is going to have to be the Spit IX, Fw-190A5, or P-38G, for the perked uber rides of Early War Arena.  

Some of my fondest memories are of the totaly onesided matchups where my Ju-87 blasted a P-38J and a P-51D out of the sky(elevators are so fragile to 7.62mm), and my SpitI sawing off the wing of a LA-7(totaly lucky deflection shot), and another time a Me-262 tried to HO my SpitI and he died not me.:lol
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: WilldCrd on September 15, 2006, 01:16:57 AM
ya know pyro or Ht said that they would be adjusting the cap limits in the next few days. they are pobably getting a numbers average so they know what to raise it to
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Sancho on September 15, 2006, 01:22:55 AM
I just re-registered after a lengthy absence.  Actually a day before these changes were made.  It's like the good old days again.   Fights are better and longer.  I really dig the change.

It would be nice to have another jug in the midwar though.  A paddlebladed razorback (D-21?) would be nice, maybe as a perk.  Or the D25 until that can be arranged. ;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 15, 2006, 01:23:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by WilldCrd
ya know pyro or Ht said that they would be adjusting the cap limits in the next few days. they are pobably getting a numbers average so they know what to raise it to

Oh i am certain thats exactly what is happening. But you see where this is all headed?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 15, 2006, 01:29:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LYNX
There’s a convergence of factors such as current arena health, player mass, time of year and a couple of things in the pipeline that we believe will provide an influx of players. Taken together, we believe this is the best time to make this transition.

May I start a rumour ?  Or take a guess at something :noid

I feel this "new" set up has been rushed.  Why would anyone piss off it's customers without  any carrots to hold them here ?

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury let us look at some facts..... No new down load ! No new planes !  No new inter arena squad channel !  Just a promise of "we'll get around to it"  The hall marks of a rush job.

AH 2 now ressembles a mish mash of other games we have played and left.

Now let us look at the defendants statement above BUT note these 4 very simple words   "an influx of players".

I put it to you the Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury the HTC is in the process of buying out another sim.  :noid  and is making our new targets  err team mates feel more at home with this type of arena set up.

Guilty or Not Guilty   HTC how do you plead ?
:)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 15, 2006, 01:33:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Domin
HTC will find a good medium. Just a little time. Now when they turn into CRS (ww2ol) and have the attitude it's our game we will build it how we want it and it doesn't matter what you think then we are in trouble. But HTC really does care..
How long have you been around? ;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: WilldCrd on September 15, 2006, 01:41:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Oh i am certain thats exactly what is happening. But you see where this is all headed?



do tell, i take it you feel the conspiracy theorists are correct?
i wonder if i go searching back to when they implemented AH2 how many of the complainers then that said change it back its terrible and all the other interesting whines are .....the....same.....ppl..... .now...???
talk about your consipracies




 please note im not refering to anyone particular poster regarding the above comment so plsease...dont flood my pm's with added whines
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 15, 2006, 01:44:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TexInVa
[soapbox]
There appear to be a few people who've become the voice of the Aces High subscribers. I'm glad that those chosen few can speak for the majority. It's good to know that everybody hates the changes and that they've elected you to voice their opinions.

That's bull.


Bye.

[/soapbox]

I love the change. Why? Pick one reason from any one of the multitudes who like the changes. I like them all.
 

Ok...so who is speaking for whom here? :rolleyes:
nice try..next time try using just One side of your mouth.










Oh yeh........bye
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 15, 2006, 01:46:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by WilldCrd
do tell, i take it you feel the conspiracy theorists are correct?
i wonder if i go searching back to when they implemented AH2 how many of the complainers then that said change it back its terrible and all the other interesting whines are .....the....same.....ppl..... .now...???
talk about your consipracies




 please note im not refering to anyone particular poster regarding the above comment so plsease...dont flood my pm's with added whines

Thats a lota stuff...NO i think its obvious that HTC is left with a dilima of thier own.. Where to draw the line for arena cap.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: CDR1 on September 15, 2006, 01:55:00 AM
I have been playing off and on for a while, I started out Bish. and loved the game. Soon got invited to a squad and really enjoyed that for a while. Then some squad politics raised it's ugly head and I moved on and switched to rooks. It was ( and there is a point to this ramble) then I realized that there was indeed a different charactor to each of the 3 sides. Bish are over organized and get mad at each other real easy. Rooks are on average better sticks but the trash talk gets overwelming pretty quick. Knights are lest organized but they put out on the first date and are not snobs and will welcome anyone on any particular night to join in, unfortunately they leave troops and supplies up at enemy bases all the time and general lose when attacked in ernest. My point is that each of these fine fighting countries has a distinct personality. I suspect that the new arenas will follow that path and that should make for some genuinly new game play.  In the early war I have seen much more premanuvering before pulling trigger, to some extent the lack of horsepower puts an extra sharp point to the phrase, " rush in blazing and die quick". This has also put an extra need to specing your plane right. Lots of " running out of fuel" going on. For me I am going to need many weeks to understand the finer points of each arena, and because I am learning new stuff I am happy. I had a guy get mad at me because I kept BnZing his 109 in a P40E, trash talked me cause I wouldn't fight. Duuuh If we give this some time and effort I believe AHII will end up with much better game play, and I am always up for something new.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: bozon on September 15, 2006, 02:12:55 AM
So far the public has voted with their login button - early war! (much to my suprise I must admit).

I'm sorry, but I can't see the difference between the "late war" and the old MA in terms of the plane roster. What? the Stuka is missing? But still it is not capped and early war has more people in it. So do people really prefer the old MA? Do people actually complain that the majority does not want to play "late war" with them?

The other way to look at it is that people really are a dumb flock of sheep and just log into the most populated areana until it is capped. In that case HT's point in installing the cap has been prooven. I'm sure the cap will be raised once the dust settles in and everyone chose their areanas. I expect numbers to be disperesed between the 3 areanas pretty soon.

come fly mid war! :D

I like the change.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: WilldCrd on September 15, 2006, 02:14:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Thats a lota stuff...NO i think its obvious that HTC is left with a dilima of thier own.. Where to draw the line for arena cap.



oh i agree that the cap limits need to be addressed ASAP no argument there.
it aint perfect but im willing the give HT the benifit of the doubt on this stuff and ride it out. its always been worth it in the past
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: WilldCrd on September 15, 2006, 02:19:06 AM
Quote
       Originally posted by TexInVa
    [soapbox]
    There appear to be a few people who've become the voice of the Aces High subscribers. I'm glad that those chosen few can speak for the majority. It's good to know that everybody hates the changes and that they've elected you to voice their opinions.

    That's bull.


    Bye.

    [/soapbox]

    I love the change. Why? Pick one reason from any one of the multitudes who like the changes. I like them all.


Ok...so who is speaking for whom here?
nice try..next time try using just One side of your mouth.










Oh yeh........bye



Am i the only one who got confused by tex's post? maybe i have been up to late
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 15, 2006, 02:58:21 AM
Go to Bed WC.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: mussie on September 15, 2006, 03:32:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LYNX
There’s a convergence of factors such as current arena health, player mass, time of year and a couple of things in the pipeline that we believe will provide an influx of players. Taken together, we believe this is the best time to make this transition.

May I start a rumour ?  Or take a guess at something :noid

I feel this "new" set up has been rushed.  Why would anyone piss off it's customers without  any carrots to hold them here ?

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury let us look at some facts..... No new down load ! No new planes !  No new inter arena squad channel !  Just a promise of "we'll get around to it"  The hall marks of a rush job.

AH 2 now ressembles a mish mash of other games we have played and left.

Now let us look at the defendants statement above BUT note these 4 very simple words   "an influx of players".

I put it to you the Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury the HTC is in the process of buying out another sim.  :noid  and is making our new targets  err team mates feel more at home with this type of arena set up.

Guilty or Not Guilty   HTC how do you plead ?


"an influx of players" sure as hell cant be WB

(http://members.optusnet.com.au/vstrom/pics/WB2006%2015-09-2006.jpg)


Note To HTC If you consider the above image is in appropriate please remove it
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: twitchy on September 15, 2006, 04:37:08 AM
I just logged in for the first time since the new arena change... Who's idea was that crap? How long is it going to stay like that? Is that a half-baked attempt at a Tour of Duty, or is because the Server can't handle the traffic? One of the big attractions of the game for me was being able to fly any of the planes with my squad man, this BLOWS. If I wanted limted plane sets, I'd fly the Combat Theatre, having it shoved down my throat like this seems rather indignant. I know there's alot of people here on the board that seem to like it, but then again, there's alot of people that like Brussel Sprouts and BBW's too.
Is this permanent!??!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: TexInVa on September 15, 2006, 04:49:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dichotomy
TexInVa


Couldnt have said it better myself and subsequently will no longer address the subject.  



Thank you , sir

I will admit I was tired and cranky and shouldn't have been posting. I haven't finished reading through all of last nights posts, so I'm not sure about how many people I've pissed off. I might have some apologizing to do for being a ****.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Domin on September 15, 2006, 05:10:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
How long have you been around? ;)


I don't care for the changes.. but im waiting to see what happens. I have no idea why they didn't keep main and just add the other arenas. If they were gonna be as popular as they thought main would have eventually died any way.  

I have been playing for 5-7 weeks. Does that make my $15 less important then yours? Or have you accomplished more then I have? Sit back and relax.. your just 1 in 6 1/2 billion. ;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: TexInVa on September 15, 2006, 05:11:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Ok...so who is speaking for whom here? :rolleyes:
nice try..next time try using just One side of your mouth.



Go back and read from both of the threads. Find the people who like the changes and the reasons why, then apply that to my reasons. Why? Because I like all aspects of the change.

Please work on reading comprehension.



There I go, being cranky again..... Sorry. What I need to do is get out of the forums until the dust settles. In fact, this will probably be my last post for a couple of days.

Let's see if I can come at this from a different angle.... In both of the threads about the change, there are different people who like the changes for different reasons. One likes the plane sets, one likes the lack of hords, one likes the smaller maps, etc... I have found that I like the changes for all of the already stated reasons.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Eagler on September 15, 2006, 05:47:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sancho
I just re-registered after a lengthy absence.  Actually a day before these changes were made.  It's like the good old days again.   Fights are better and longer.  I really dig the change.

It would be nice to have another jug in the midwar though.  A paddlebladed razorback (D-21?) would be nice, maybe as a perk.  Or the D25 until that can be arranged. ;)


welcome back Sancho
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 15, 2006, 06:02:08 AM
I flew a few hours last night in the EW for the first time in over a month, I logged more sorties than I have since the convention.

All I can is...it was fantastic!

There were still guys who would not engage, there were still folks who felt the need to vulch while in their perked 190. Nothing will change that. But what I did see was a great fight that was going on between A1 and A2 on lake uterus map when I logged in, and it was still raging when I logged hours later. There were more good fights to be found in that one night than I've found in the last year.

Only thing that I think should be considered for improvement would be a very relaxed "change country timer". When the ENY penalty kicks into full bore it takes away a LOT of plane choices. I'm not opposed to the ENY limiter, when one country tries to gang up on the others they should be penalized. If I find myself on a the side of a gang I'd like to change countries to fight the lamers not be penalized for them being on my team.

Edit: typos...should not post before coffee.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: The Fury on September 15, 2006, 06:35:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TexInVa

I love the change. Why? Pick one reason from any one of the multitudes who like the changes. I like them all.

I think it's fantastic that I can fly my Zero or Spit-IX or TBM against other early war aircraft, get into a tangle or three and not worry about being cherry picked by some B-n-Z'n LA-7 or P-51 or N1K1 or Spit-XVI. What I thought sucked about the old arena was that to survive, I had to up the same rides. I don't like those planes.

I'm very satisfied with the new setup... :aok [/B]




I agree completely im very happy with the new setup for exactly the same reasons. like it got said earlier give HTC a chance to play with it a little i have the feeling this is the start of  something great. :aok :aok :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 15, 2006, 06:51:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
Never in the field of human whinage,
Was so much whine created,
By such dweebs,
By one small change.


AH Definitions

Whinage :  To disagree with a position or course of action that the author supports.

Dweebs:  A person or attitude that is considered inferior to that of the author

Small Change:  Change to an existing condition, the size of which is irrelevant, but the effect of said change doesn't bother the author.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 15, 2006, 06:53:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Snip> They have always stated that they dont want to "Force" or prevent someone from flying whith thier buds. :confused:


Mugz,

I agree with your post up until this part.  When the ENY was instituted "Force" was applied.  It has been a slippery slope since then.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 15, 2006, 06:55:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by WilldCrd
ya know pyro or Ht said that they would be adjusting the cap limits in the next few days. they are pobably getting a numbers average so they know what to raise it to


Numbers average?  How do you average the numbers of players in an arena that has remained full and refuses further admittance?

:rolleyes:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: rod367th on September 15, 2006, 06:57:41 AM
Pyro   I see today you decided 2 late wars too much. So glad you listen to suggestion,look at it made change. Only thing I would do not sure how easy it is. But if not to hard make a early 2  mid 2 late war 2 . That wil only open after main arenas full. Only arena I've seen full so far has been Early war..................Again thx for  update.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: stickpig on September 15, 2006, 07:14:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sable
That part appears to be incorrect.  In July 1943 the RAF had around 45 Spitfire squadrons based in Britain - not a single one was equipped with the Mk VIII (taken from this (http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/allied_1943_issue_I_pdf.zip) document which came from this (http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/tonywood.htm ) page).  The IX became the mainstay of the RAF in the second half of the war.

Mk V production - over 6000
Mk IX production - over 5000
Mk VIII production - over 1200

Sorry for the hijack.  I'll go back to lurking and you may now return to your regularly scheduled whining.


MTO  (31st FG) had Spit VIII's in full force by July 1943
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: rod367th on September 15, 2006, 07:17:35 AM
Pyro   did you really want 163 enabled at ALL bases in latewar 1, also  man ack is unmanable in late war 1.?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Creton on September 15, 2006, 08:04:47 AM
Good change HTC!!

While it's gonna take some getting used to,I have started trying to get my squad on team speak,so we can locate each other faster.

I think this will allow you to see how the planes match up for when TOD comes out.
Plus as TOD progressses through the time frames,this will enable you to see how the player base will evolve as well.Some people just wont fly early war planes unless they're required to fullfill the objectives set in TOD.This change will help you to see that if the progression of pilot ranks in TOD is to long ,you run the risk of loseing people,because of being "stuck" in an early war plane.

Of course ,this is all spectulation.

Over all I'm glad to see better match ups,Ihave always been a fan of "classic" fights,p-51's vs 109/190's as an example. And this change has made room to see better match ups.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: chris3 on September 15, 2006, 08:16:59 AM
Moin

What about one Main Arena with diverent time periodes. i think it were a better choice as 3 diverent mains. We need one play ground not 3 small. The most fun i have came from the big group of players and now only 1/3 is posible. This change made me thinking about quiting the game and that is realy hard to say for me im here over 5 jears now and i realy love this game. But this change takes all the fun away from me.
its sad :-(
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: richard_rd on September 15, 2006, 08:22:55 AM
I can't believe it!!!!

  I now love the new Arena changes!!!      Why you ask????    

   Finally ENY has been implemented in a way that makes sence and will lead to side balancing in the arenas once they are 20- 25% populated.


    The biggest problem with ENY in the past was it would only activate when more then 200 players were logged in to the arena.  Non USA Prime time like from 03:00 EDT to 11:59 EDT M-F would only average betweem 50-150 players online so ENY never kicked in and the MA was always a bloodbath for the team with the low numbers.  

Bish 60 players
Rook 48 Players
Knights 25 players

   Knights would always get crushed by rook/bish gang banging and no ENY penalties to be found anywhere.


   It looks like Dale has finally taken my sugestion, I only made it a gazzilion times on this forum, that the Minimum number of players online to activate ENY be reduced from 200 players.   I don't know the exact number that he re-ajusted it too, but it seems like it is now set somewhere around 50 players online, which is a perfect setting for an arena with a 200-250 max player limit.

  Thank You, Thank you , Thank you DALE!!!!!   I will now name my first child after you!!!!!
Title: Perfect
Post by: Loddar on September 15, 2006, 08:34:07 AM
Thanks for the new arenas HTC :aok
Looking for that for years. ;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: richard_rd on September 15, 2006, 08:37:36 AM
Suggestion for tanks in the new Arena format.

Add the Panzer to the EWA, and perk it lightly like 25 perks.

The Tiger in the LWA should remain at 50 Perks like it is now.

But change the Tiger Perks in the MWA so it costs like 200 Perks.

This will lead to less Tigers in the MWA, and will add some Panzers in the EWA to add some more spice to the currently T34 vs T34 only tank battles  in the EWA.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mystic2 on September 15, 2006, 08:38:19 AM
I have given this a couple of days and to be honest, I dont like the changes as they are now.... the room CAP limits are way off, it makes it hard to find your squadies, and the list just keeps getting bigger.   I am trying to give this the benefit of the doubt, and see how things progress, but I find that I am not as anxious to get online and fly as I previously was.... I have gone from spending hours to  barely 45 minutes before I am ready to log... something has got to give.... just my 2 cents
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 15, 2006, 08:49:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by richard_rd
This will lead to less Tigers in the MWA, and will add some Panzers in the EWA to add some more spice to the currently T34 vs T34 only tank battles  in the EWA.

I don't play the GV game but I can see why T34 v T34 will get old fast. The late MkIV we currently have owns the early T34 we currently have, so it must be eliminated from the EW arena for the sake of the game. We could do MkIIIs, Crusaders, and Matildas, but building an entirely new GV model takes a lot of resources.

Modding the MkIV to take the short 75mm should take far less time. The early MkIV could then do battle with the T34 in the EW.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: jamesdeanoo7 on September 15, 2006, 08:50:56 AM
Heres what I dont understand......If so many people are moaning about the new format and threatening to leave and you are convinced it will bring in new blood and eventually be better, why not xcompromise and monitor the situation. You could leave the main arena as it was and still add these other arenas. Personally I think you are totally wrong ax is your reasoning and heres why. To say new comers are put off by the size of the main arena as was doesnt make sense. On a large map you could roam and never see anyone....you had ft for those guys that just liked dogfighting...tt for those in gvs and a huge potential for a variety of missions. This format with smaller maps puts everyone in the same small area making it impossible for newbs. All thats happened to me since this change is a constant mobbing by large numbers when completely outnumbered. Its a platform game... a shootemup...there is no stratedgy... its a who can grab the most land fastest game...if you dont believe me....play the game as we do for a few hours. And whats with the field guns not being able to be manned???? when did that occur in the war....??? I love this game too much to leave it but it has completely changed the way I play. Now first I have to see if I am on my own in an arena against 10 or 20 others. Thatsc after trying to find my squad mates. I have read these other quotes and thats even more confusing because I have the moans in the arena at about 10-1 against this new format.... You know the strange thing...most of those are guys I call vets... people who have been in here playing a long time. Anyway to get back to my first point. Why not leave the main arena as it was, you could even leave the fighter town map up permanently...no one will ever win it lol. These are just my thoughts... justv personal and I will carry on playing no matter what you do... a vote might be nice at some stage.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FiLtH on September 15, 2006, 09:01:56 AM
I guess I liked the variety of the old MA better than I thought I did. Each fight was different, as the planes had to be fought differently. After a couple days in the early war arena, one that I really looked forward to, Ive seen alot of the same couple of planes, creating the same type of fights over and over.
 
    I know many like it, so who am I to say it shouldnt be this way. But theres is something this little change has done to my interest level, either the fact there are less people and less fights, too much time flying around, or the scattering of people. I dont know what it is, but for me its become a negative experience.

   I would suggest an early arena, and the standard MA as the available arenas. An effort to keep atleast 300 people in one of each.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mini D on September 15, 2006, 09:05:33 AM
Some general observations:

1) Logging in and not being able to get into an arena is a bad thing. This is not something that would be "good for new customers".

2) The riff between "strat" and "furball" is getting bigger and the communitiy is now divided more than it's ever been. Eventually things will calm down, as soon as one side leaves for greener pastures. I hope that none (greener pastures) present themselves.

3) Very few of the people posting about "whining" are thinking of anyone but them and theirs. It's unfortunate that being catered to trumps what's best for the game. You'd think that since many of these people played Warbirds that they'd see the foley in this.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ghi on September 15, 2006, 09:11:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by richard_rd



Bish 60 players
Rook 48 Players
Knights 25 players

   Knights would always get crushed by rook/bish gang banging and no ENY penalties to be found anywhere.


   
They couldn't keep the teams even in 1 arena and 3 teams: now are 4 arenas and 12 teams , go in every arena and look at the roster, its'a mess
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 15, 2006, 09:41:49 AM
this is silly (but fun).

the people complaining that they can't fly with 50 or 60 of their closest brothers and lovers.....

That was the problem.. the squad limit was to stop this crap.  They figured I suppose that of a 30 player squad... maybe 10 would ever be up at one time.  not enought to destroy gameplay.   the mega squad guys defeated that..

They took any drunk with a mouse who would sign up and used em for cannon fodder to roll over the gameplay.   People were getting disgusted...

the new gameplay was horde and fast planes... you dived at the runway and if you didn't auger in... you might get your one kill for that hour... if the othe 40 guys diving in didn't...  

people were getting disgusted and no solution was in sight... no new planes could be developed unless they were the performance equivilent of say an LA7... otherwise...  only suckers and lovers of flight sims would use em... you might see one spit one a month in the old ma.   lots of "choice" eh?

Now.. the guys who said quit complaining...everything was fine no need for change... are crying like little girls (big surprise there eh?)  because....

Because what?    Because they can't horde... they can't runnway dive and they can't find completely outclassed planes to gangbang who can't run away?

Oh.. and all you newbies threatening Ht and co.... I have been around long enough to know... that is probly not the best tact.

and triumph... don't lie... seen you and you were having a ball..

and...everyone loves each other now... I went bish just to mix with the BOP and was welcomed like a long lost relative... they even threw a party for me!

The gladiator movies were ok but I left when they brought out the male stripper.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 15, 2006, 09:55:35 AM
what it seems a lot of the guys that are whining are saying is that...

The great "chess player" sqadies and late war plane lovers are too stupid to see that there is a choice and that they don't have to click on the first arena they see... even tho it is all explained to em when they log on...

Then... these witless girlymen... even if they do find the late war nirvana.... are to unsportmanlike to figure out a way to use an arena so that there can be fair and fun fights even with 50-100 guys on?

We all would like some tweaking...  I wouldn't mind closer fields at the early arena because of the speed of the planes say...  more planes introduced... ways to even the sides... etc.   we just have to wait and see.

Point was... everyone seemed to be having a great time last nite in the early arena.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Yeager on September 15, 2006, 09:55:53 AM
lazs has is correct.

Im just s'prised it took HTC so long.  Maybe it was the appearance of the first genuine LA7 air division (5 or 6 squadrons all banned together by name and purpose, flying nothing but ultra uber rides) that finally brought the MA down.

I dont know, I dont care.  AH finally has some genuine choice now, thats all that matters.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Eagler on September 15, 2006, 10:01:48 AM
my guess is that the breakup also has to do with CT
example:
I picture us floundering around in early war when the message comes across the text buffer stating a raid is inbound to field X. Launching from field X sends you through a wormhole into the action of CT. After the mission, you land, die and are reborn back into the original early war arena.
Given CT is mission based, I don't see it running 24/7 like ma rooms do now but a series of scheduled (announced) and maybe unscheduled missions that those that want to jump into can and those that don't can continue on as before.  
maybe?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 15, 2006, 10:14:21 AM
I agree with Yeager and Lazs on the balance/inbalance of the sides here, the PLAYERS are the cause of that not HTC. The only thing that needs to be done is that the timer that restricts team changing needs to be shortened to 30 minutes or eliminated altogether.

Last night when I logged on the EW was pretty balanced, I switched to Bish to fly with a squaddie and within an hour or so the Bish were about 50% of the arena population. I did not like being ENY limited because my team started ganging, it was as bad as being part of the gang in the first place. I prefer to fight the lamers in the gang than be a part of it, but I could not switch back.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Hawco on September 15, 2006, 10:16:39 AM
Still think what happened was a bunch of furballers with way to much time on their hands turned up at the convention and droned on about the need to change things.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mustaine on September 15, 2006, 10:23:08 AM
since I can't play and try it I don't know if it has changed.... but I have a question to HTC:

changing arenas in the past required a complete exit-out of the game, then come back in to the arena you choose. is that still required?

if so, I would make the suggestion to change it somehow in the situation a friend or squadmate logs in to a different arena and you'd like to join them, or have them join you. I know it is all about what terrain is loaded in memory and all, but I was hoping there was some "coad" you could put in to dump the loaded terrain on exit of that arena.


also, there has been talk about a multiple arena wide squad channel for inter-arena communication. perhaps now is the time to re-visit the radio. many times others have been asking for another vox / text channel. I would suggest a tunable text only channel for tuning in the 300-400 range or something.. a channel where you can talk cross country / arena. with that not only could squads find each other, but buddies too.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Puck on September 15, 2006, 10:32:59 AM
Is there a new ETA or feature list on the inter-arena communications plan?  Dale's hopefully must have run into a bug.

Looks like they've already started some minor tweakage.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mini D on September 15, 2006, 10:38:06 AM
The really smart thing to do is to insult the players that don't like the changes and run them off as people "you didn't want in the arena anyways". Yeppers, that's a recipe for success.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mathman on September 15, 2006, 10:42:34 AM
I do wish that there was a lower time limit on switching sides.  That would go a long way to balancing out the side numbers in the arenas.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 15, 2006, 10:44:33 AM
Is that what ran you off all those years ago mini?   Seems there are lots of people in the world to choose from tho.  

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New Areanas
Post by: HGCeech on September 15, 2006, 10:56:03 AM
Doug,this new areanas you forced on us is very very unfair,in that it splits up our squad and the pilots in our squad.We all came over here from Fighter ACE because they did the same thing and ruined that game,we came here because it was what we wanted but you changed that,we would like it to go back like it was.I could not get into a areana because it was all full and i could not get the plane i wanted in the other areanas.You people here at AH were doing a great job but you changed that,your reasons for the change are not valid at all,and the membership should of voted on this change since we are paying  to play.You just took it upon yourself to change it..PLEASE put it back the way it was...Or have a full plane set for a main areana.the early war has only a few planes to fly .AH is splitting up the membership for sure....NOT GOOD...Thanks for your time sir=S=HGCeech(HiredGuns Squad)BXO....:mad:
Title: Re: New Areanas
Post by: Lusche on September 15, 2006, 11:03:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by HGCeech
and the membership should of voted on this change since we are paying  to play.


Sorry, even if I have similar feelings about this changes, this part of your statement is utter nonsense.
You cant run a company by votes.  You & me are free to take our money elswhere. Its a product HTC offers and you can always reject that offer.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Yeager on September 15, 2006, 11:11:24 AM
HGCeech,

Many understand what your saying, HTC apparently felt that they needed to make this change.  Ive played AH since 99 and WB before that starting in 96.  I can tell you that these guys are deliberate and thoughtful about change and make changes to their business as they deem best.   No amount of complaining will sway them.  They are confident in what they do, they need to be in order to survive in this busienss and they know it.  They dont do this sort of stuff then backtrack.  Forget it.

I guess Im just trying to help you here, you ought to put your effort into coping and adjusting with the change because complaining and getting red faced about it is just going to put you further and further behind the curve of people already learning how to exploit the changes to their advantage.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 15, 2006, 11:14:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by twitchy
I just logged in for the first time since the new arena change... Who's idea was that crap? How long is it going to stay like that? Is that a half-baked attempt at a Tour of Duty, or is because the Server can't handle the traffic? One of the big attractions of the game for me was being able to fly any of the planes with my squad man, this BLOWS. If I wanted limted plane sets, I'd fly the Combat Theatre, having it shoved down my throat like this seems rather indignant. I know there's alot of people here on the board that seem to like it, but then again, there's alot of people that like Brussel Sprouts and BBW's too.
Is this permanent!??!


If nothing else, you have to love this sort of panic.

 It doesn't matter if ****ty gameplay got rammed down everyone else's throat; it just matters when it happens to you, right?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mustaine on September 15, 2006, 11:22:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by twitchy
there's alot of people that like Brussel Sprouts and BBW's too
hey fat chicks need love too. they just have to pay.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 15, 2006, 11:30:33 AM
As the Blue Knights Minister of Propaganda, and Spokesman for the Furballer Emergency Action Committee, I would like to publicly thank HTC for taking the report generated by said committee in its entirity without ammendment. The Furballer Emergency Action Committee went into Double Secret emergency session to generate this report on sudden notice, and under severe pressure came through with what can only be described as the "Magna Carta" of Aces High.

Respectfully,

Grits

This message paid for and approved by the Furballer Emergency Action Committee
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: toon on September 15, 2006, 11:31:24 AM
last nite was just like it was for me in the beginning....log on around 9pm est. ...have to get up early so a couple hours tops......12:45 am est. shocked ...logged off ... sorry for the ones who cant find enjoyment but i had a dagblasted, doggone,eat poopie and howl at the moon swell time. but im still only gonna give it a couple of weeks before i make my final judgement.;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Hades55 on September 15, 2006, 11:45:02 AM
Time for .....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Beaufighter

http://www.acepilots.com/planes/p39_airacobra.html
http://www.warbirdalley.com/p39.htm

http://www.warbirdalley.com/buffalo.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavochkin_LaGG-3
http://www.pioneeraero.co.nz/lagg-3_lavochkin.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yak-1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-36_Hawk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polikarpov_I-16

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Duxford2002/Gladiator/index.html <--- Gladiator

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Wellington

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Stirling

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_Halifax
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Manchester

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorts_Sunderland
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: NAVCAD on September 15, 2006, 11:52:00 AM
Don't know if this has been covered in any or all of the comments, and considering the fact that there are over 4 pages worth....BUT....

Skuzzy,

Can you enable the guns on the ships in all of the arenas?  Last night I was in the early arena and non of the guns were man-able on the ships (8" or 5" Flak).

Haven't spent a whole lot of tiime with the new set-up, but it looks promising once the bugs are worked out.

NAVCAD
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 999000 on September 15, 2006, 11:57:35 AM
Yeager sometimes great people get it wrong!
999000
Last night you can't fly B17's in the early war where most of the compitition was.........ok I go then to the mid years......great enemy thing can't up B17...great again.....go to late war attack closest base where I hope to find a bad guy...About the most exciting thing that happened was a acorn fell out of a tree! at least make it so we can shoot the good guys down!
999000 BTW I still have not seen the data which this change was based on!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mathman on September 15, 2006, 11:58:11 AM
I don't know if the current setup is the answer, but I do feel like the old MA had become as stale as three week-old bread.  I welcome a change and hope to see this work.  If it doesn't, I hope that more changes are made so a good solution is found and more life is put into this sim.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Overlag on September 15, 2006, 12:08:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
why didnt HTC just make two MA's

1:
one with large maps, and all planes with a 600 cap.
basicaly the standard MA

2:
one with small maps, and early planes (39-43) with a 400 cap.
a new arena, with the only small maps... some people prefer the smaller maps... And they still get a good range of planes.



im sure this would make the European players happier...since flying against 8 players is boring..... if i wanted that id cancel my sub, and fly free arena's;)

so why not go to only 2 arena's, and only bring in a midwar arena when numbers outgrow two servers?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 15, 2006, 12:09:11 PM
NAVCAD, I was in the EW arena last night and can assure you the guns on the fleet that I was at (Bish fleet near A1, prime-time) were mannable.

Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
so why not go to only 2 arena's, and only bring in a midwar arena when numbers outgrow two servers?

So what if some folks like the MW arena, you want to force folks to play the way you want them to? I think choice is a good thing, so more choices are more gooder :D
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: BlkKnit on September 15, 2006, 12:14:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
im sure this would make the European players happier...since flying against 8 players is boring..... if i wanted that id cancel my sub, and fly free arena's;)

so why not go to only 2 arena's, and only bring in a midwar arena when numbers outgrow two servers?


Well, I prefer a mid-war arena now.  Why dont they add your arena on later :p
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: KAntti on September 15, 2006, 12:19:25 PM
Even though I find the change, a change to better, I must say, all this is very educational reading, all 20 or so pages of it.

I think people who have been flying AH for a long time generally applaude change, any change, because the change is what still keeps them around. Thats why so many Internet based games, or any game with or without multiplayer functionality will only last as long as people find it interesting (re-playability). To keep it interesting there must allways be something new that stimulates the player.

If one could only see the benefits in how much a change stimulates him or her, one would not make such a noise as heard (or read) here. I mean look at your selves! You all have made a giant effort defending your way of thinking (even if it was frustrating) and at the same time found something totally new to this game.

This is why AH has generally survived as long as it has and keeps surviving and evolving to ever better. AH offers it's users (not merely players) something to get happy, fulfilled, pleased and last but in no case least angry about. Not only does it offer this for a defined period of time like most of games but by a method of radical and not so radical evolving, keeps us glued to our seats or getting back to the game to see what the heck have they done this time.

So please do understand, that even if you now feel that "change is baaaaaad, because i just joined a huge squad and learned how to vulch and now vulching is made harder to do". You are only better off, because you will now become a better vulcher ;)

Please do not pick on the vulch issue, because it is only a poor example of a point :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Yeager on September 15, 2006, 12:23:08 PM
999000
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Overlag on September 15, 2006, 12:28:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert1
NAVCAD, I was in the EW arena last night and can assure you the guns on the fleet that I was at (Bish fleet near A1, prime-time) were mannable.

 
So what if some folks like the MW arena, you want to force folks to play the way you want them to? I think choice is a good thing, so more choices are more gooder :D


its great for milk runners cos theres no defenders.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Bear69 on September 15, 2006, 12:44:18 PM
Ok, Time to add my thoughts to all this ...... so "Bear"with me.  I liek the idea for the MOST part.  I do have a coupe reccomendations i'd like to see hTC take under consideration.  
1.  During the daytime hours (e.s.t morning) there are less than 100 people online at times and with 4 arenas running it's very very sad, and hard to enjoy the game at all with 20 people in an arena.  Would it be possible to open and close arenas depending on the number of players online?  if there is only 100 online force them into 1 arena maybe?  The game has lost much of it's attraction when you have to go LOOK for someone to fight.

2.  If the idea of a Early war arena is going to continue we need more options than just 1 tank.  a little more variety would be nice to add.  Those are just the thoughts i've had so far, besides that i really like the idea , i think it just needs some modifications.

Bear69
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Bear69 on September 15, 2006, 12:46:45 PM
I neglected to proof read or spell check, lol
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Overlag on September 15, 2006, 01:00:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BlkKnit
Well, I prefer a mid-war arena now.  Why dont they add your arena on later :p


its not about "removing" anything.

you still get your planes.

you cant remove early or late arenas or there would be NOWHERE to fly them planes.



with a early/late arena setup the mid war planes would be perk rides in early arena, or low ENY rides in late.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Bear69 on September 15, 2006, 01:03:44 PM
that would also be a good idea, but you can CLOSE arena's during certain times of the day when numbers are low.  Keep 2 of the 4 closed during off peak hours and just have an early and late war.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Iceman24 on September 15, 2006, 01:27:21 PM
"Yeager sometimes great people get it wrong!
999000
Last night you can't fly B17's in the early war where most of the compitition was.........ok I go then to the mid years......great enemy thing can't up B17...great again.....go to late war attack closest base where I hope to find a bad guy...About the most exciting thing that happened was a acorn fell out of a tree! at least make it so we can shoot the good guys down!
999000 BTW I still have not seen the data which this change was based on!"


I agree 100%, I was over there with you, boring is all I can say unless you want to fly in the early war arena... what was really funny was when I logged into the early war arena I couldn't up anything because the ENY was at like 47 or something rediculous... basically unless all you want to do is furball in the early war arena your game got hurt.... why don't we just make an early war arena and a regular MA. I myself like to furball everynow in then in a Piece of crap plane like a hurri or P40, but mainly I like to fly P38's and P51's, If I want to fly anything but an early war plane I'm stuck with just flying in and doing useless attack sorties, nobody ups to defend bases, they don't even bring out flak guns or M16's, why ? because nobody is in the freaking arena, everyone is in the early war. basically all that's happened is this has turned into an arena for furballing, an arena for porking/stratting with no resistance, and an arena to go take undefended bases over and over again... I played for 3-4 hours last night and the only good fights I had in late war were 2 times versus uptown and some of his buddies, other than that I just wasted 3 hours flying around. Then when I go to early war, there's people on country channel recruiting others to go to mid war and late war 2 to just take bases to reset the map... sorry for venting but I do not see 1 single improvent this new arena system has created. I don't take bases, I don't care who wins the war, I don't care about the AVA arena, and I could care less about TOD, The main arena is all jacked up now, and that is the main reason I started playing this game a long time ago, now its all messed up, can anyone tell me why ? I have read several of the posts by people saying this is for the better and haven't seen 1 example as to how, you give me 1 reason why the new arena system is better and I'll give you 10 as to why its not. This will be my last post on the subject, gonna give it 1 more month to see if it works out then I'm gonna split, has nothing to do with the 15 bux a month, its more about taking a great thing and ruinining it just to suit 5 or 6 players. When I was playing AW and they made the changes it ruined the game, the fight, and mainly the community and that's what's happening here... AH staff, you don't even have to read the BBS complaints to see this is a bad idea, just simply login to any arena and you'll hear nothing but complaints from everybody, and if you login to any arena but early war you probably won't here anything at all because the only people that are in mid-late war are padding scores or just taking bases for points. As I said earlier this is my last post on the subject, will give it another month to see if things pan out, if they don't I'll just have to dig my xbox back out. I wasn't trying to be negative but everyone else if voicing there opinion on here and I thought I'd at my 2 cents for what its worth.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 15, 2006, 01:35:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
I guess I liked the variety of the old MA better than I thought I did. Each fight was different, as the planes had to be fought differently. After a couple days in the early war arena, one that I really looked forward to, Ive seen alot of the same couple of planes, creating the same type of fights over and over.
 
    I know many like it, so who am I to say it shouldnt be this way. But theres is something this little change has done to my interest level, either the fact there are less people and less fights, too much time flying around, or the scattering of people. I dont know what it is, but for me its become a negative experience.

   I would suggest an early arena, and the standard MA as the available arenas. An effort to keep atleast 300 people in one of each.


It really shouldnt surprise anyone that this was what was going to happen...most of all HTC. Im pretty sure they knew this was exactly the way things would shake out. I have to also speculate and guess that a turn over to the next generation of palyers was/is fully expected. Its a biz decision, carefully thought out. And as much as it might seem hurtfull of insensitive to some...It's really of no concern to HTC of how it might effect 200 players or so. Its about where it all headed in the long haul that matters to a business.

I would suggest an early arena, and the standard MA as the available arenas. An effort to keep atleast 300 people in one of each. This is where it's all headed basically. Sure there will be 3 MA's available at log in. But watch the numbers and you will see that basically there will in effect be 2 Arenas as you have suggested, and the planeset in the New Improved, Merged LW1 and LW2 arenas already offer nearly a full plane set..:aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: icemaw on September 15, 2006, 01:43:25 PM
DATELINE GRAPEVINE TEXAS.
 A large vocal protest broke out at a small software company. The angry mob could be heard chanting.
 
 WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN THERES NO MORE MAIN ARENA!!!!!


A armed yellow RV8 air craft could been seen orbiting overhead.

Click on link for photos.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/57/29/85/kashmirarg445.jpg
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 15, 2006, 01:48:38 PM
maybe I am still not understanding the complaints...

Every single plane is enabled at one field or another in one arena or another.

If you like late war fluffs or tanks or whatever... go to that arena.  

I don't understand the no players whine either...  If there are 50 on then that is twice as much as AvA uses to have great fights with non stop action...

But wait.... you want to play with 50-100 of your closests friends in life right?   That was what was wrong with the old MA...  Us BK's will even fight each other..  be surprised how fun that is.

You all claim you want the 500 people community but...  you never fly with more than 125 or so anyway... you pick a chess peice and a mega squad and put on the old blinders.... never to even meet and fly with anyone from another chess piece...  Try switching around a little to even up numbers and see how you like really meeting some of the other players.

I have heard that allmost all planes were unavailable to some of you.... No kidding?   Why is that?  Cause you had your head so far up your chesspiece and buddies that you couldn't balance the numbers no matter how much it would have enhanced gameplay.

Sure... we need some more ways to even up the sides and maybe some less of a time limit to switch countries but ... this new idea is a great one and will only get better...

The old MA could only get more stale every day.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 68Ripper on September 15, 2006, 01:51:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by KAntti
Even though I find the change, a change to better, I must say, all this is very educational reading, all 20 or so pages of it.

I think people who have been flying AH for a long time generally applaude change, any change, because the change is what still keeps them around. Thats why so many Internet based games, or any game with or without multiplayer functionality will only last as long as people find it interesting (re-playability). To keep it interesting there must allways be something new that stimulates the player.

If one could only see the benefits in how much a change stimulates him or her, one would not make such a noise as heard (or read) here. I mean look at your selves! You all have made a giant effort defending your way of thinking (even if it was frustrating) and at the same time found something totally new to this game.

This is why AH has generally survived as long as it has and keeps surviving and evolving to ever better. AH offers it's users (not merely players) something to get happy, fulfilled, pleased and last but in no case least angry about. Not only does it offer this for a defined period of time like most of games but by a method of radical and not so radical evolving, keeps us glued to our seats or getting back to the game to see what the heck have they done this time.

So please do understand, that even if you now feel that "change is baaaaaad, because i just joined a huge squad and learned how to vulch and now vulching is made harder to do". You are only better off, because you will now become a better vulcher ;)

Please do not pick on the vulch issue, because it is only a poor example of a point :)


I think your missing the gist of most of these complaints, A lot of prople like change however when change is thrust upon them with a untested enviroment, that doesn't work for everyone, well people just get a bit pissed. especially when ENY is so high the only thing you can up to defend your base is a B5N2, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe this plane even has guns.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Overlag on September 15, 2006, 01:59:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 68Ripper
I think your missing the gist of most of these complaints, A lot of prople like change however when change is thrust upon them with a untested enviroment, that doesn't work for everyone, well people just get a bit pissed. especially when ENY is so high the only thing you can up to defend your base is a B5N2, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe this plane even has guns.


i don't like the changes due to amount of players.

8 players to defend the fronts is stupid. Id understand if this game had the player base to fill 3 arena's, but it doesn't, it rarely filled 1 arena lately.

i welcome the splitting of plane-sets, and I've liked flying in an arena with no La7's, Niki's Dora's etc.

but in like 5hours of play today, i only saw 6 enemy planes and probably 3 friendly.... not exactly fun.



70 players spread between 3 arena's and 3 sides in each arena's is bloody boring.[/u] :cry
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 15, 2006, 02:06:42 PM
What change have we ever had that "worked for everyone".

You would think a FT would have been such... you could take it or leave it but... that caused an uproar....  "wasting resources"  

Every change in the game changes gameplay... some people hate any change in gameplay that doesn't enhance the way they like to play.  

Put the fields closer... half the players will whine... put em farther the other half will.... leave em the same.... you still get half the people complaining.

Some fine tuning needs to be done but as it is...

You can fly any plane you like from one arena or chess piece or another.

The only thing you can't do is pad your score with the early war planes vulching.

The biggest thing I have noticed is that in the old MA....  90% or better of my deaths were trying to land or take off...

In the new arenas.. 90% are in a real fight.

You want to kill me?  fine but... you might have to actualy fight me to do it now.

In early war the ack and the slow planes took care of the wussy vulthers hovering over a field.. they actualy got pushed back numerous times!  this is a huge improvement to me.   More fights halfway between fields at various alts.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 15, 2006, 02:09:27 PM
Oh...and I do think that maybe something should be done about the off peak hours for the your-0-peeans and such but even then...

I fail to see why 70 guys couldn't pick one arena and split into 2 or 3 countries and have a blast... the AVA has a third of that and has great fights.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Bear69 on September 15, 2006, 02:10:57 PM
I like the arena changes, but 9 people per side on a map this size is just plan ridiculous!  We need some serious work on what to do when there are not many people online, or the daytime may end up empty completely.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Lusche on September 15, 2006, 02:25:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2


I fail to see why 70 guys couldn't pick one arena and split into 2 or 3 countries and have a blast... the AVA has a third of that and has great fights.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


If you are  a kind of purist who just lives for the pure aerial fight, if you like prearranged extended 1v1 or 2v2 fights, then its great. But many players just love the big "epic" (ok, now Im exaggerating a bit) battles for bases, combined GV/fighter buff actions with much more participants.

Im fond of a good furball or a hard fought duel from time to time, but its getting boring very fast for me.

Also AvA numbers dropped of considerably after a short time, I think that may be one reason for this...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ByeBye on September 15, 2006, 02:33:05 PM
Here is my assement.

The changes were done without testing or thinking thrugh some key issues, like ENY, squad communications, arena caps

The arena caps being used to "force" players to try the new arenas after their first choice was full. This is probably the most maddening to me.

I would have not one problem with the new arenas, had the original MA just been left as it was. I don't see any reason that this could not have been the case, since Pyro has stated that the issues driving the change had nothing to do with the server, connection or anu technical issue.

The MA should have been left and the others added. The palyer base is smart enough to fly were they want, withought being coerced into a decision.

Also, the small maps seem like a step backward.

After being a customer for 5 years, I think this change was implemented in a terrible, thoughtless way.

I closed my account for now.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 15, 2006, 02:46:23 PM
lusche... I am still not getting it...

Are you saying that the total number of players on durring off peak hours has dropped or that the number is about the same but the 3 arenas are splitting it up?

If it is the former that's bad... the latter... the players should be able to fix.   simply all go to the same arena... choose up sides and it should be as good or better than it was in the old MA.

I admit that I don't play durring those hours so don't know how it works.   In the old MA did you guys split up the 70 pretty evenly between countries or were 60 bish and 5 each of the other?

Did you all go in different directions and milkrun or.... fight?   See my point?

The arenas were huge...  70 or 100 could hide from each other forever if they wanted to.   all late war all the time meant you could runway dive with impunity....  ack can't track the fast planes..  

Sooooo... it seems to me that even before... the off peak play was what you made of it.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Overlag on September 15, 2006, 02:49:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Oh...and I do think that maybe something should be done about the off peak hours for the your-0-peeans and such but even then...

I fail to see why 70 guys couldn't pick one arena and split into 2 or 3 countries and have a blast... the AVA has a third of that and has great fights.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


cos you think a fight is 1on1.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Guppy35 on September 15, 2006, 02:57:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Oh...and I do think that maybe something should be done about the off peak hours for the your-0-peeans and such but even then...

I fail to see why 70 guys couldn't pick one arena and split into 2 or 3 countries and have a blast... the AVA has a third of that and has great fights.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


It seems this isn't about great fights though Laz.  This is about being able to dominate and 'win the war!  It isn't about even sides, it's about power and  control.

It isn't even furball vs land grab so much as it's those who see AH as a game and the people they play the game with as potential friends, and those who see the game as 'war!" and the other players not attached to their chess piece as enemies in a real sense of the word.

HTC just gave us a chance to change that and rebuild the community to be a better place for new folks coming in which in the end can only help build the player base and fuel more growth for HTC.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 15, 2006, 03:11:53 PM
The only real issues I see are squad communication for legitimate squads, gaps in the vehicle/planeset, and ENY/sidebalancing. It seems that HTC already considered these, and are working on sorting things out.

Guess I should threaten to quit if all of these issues aren't fixed by yesterday.

With regards to the idea being "untested"- it's being tested now.

Since no one knows exactly how this will work out, why don't we all relax, quit screaming, and try to have some fun with this. Besides, with what the BKs spent on expensive scotch, Hamm's, and Krispy Kremes in the last month... you might as well adapt to your new cartoon reality.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: DaPup on September 15, 2006, 03:12:11 PM
I'm not so sure about your reasoning there Dan, I liked having 500 people in the arena but didn't really care for the land grab. If I wanted to have good 1 on 1 fights I went to the DA.

I'm sure the change won't bother me a bit but all the people knocking the other players down for voicing their opinions is about as helpful as them complaining about a change they have no control over.


Not everyone is going to like the changes and keep their accounts active...that's life...there was, and is, more to the game though than just "good fights", if there wasn't then why have the ability to record a rank and "win" the war.

I think in the long term this will make alot more people happy than unhappy and any kinks will be worked out...give them time.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Overlag on September 15, 2006, 03:14:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
It seems this isn't about great fights though Laz.  This is about being able to dominate and 'win the war!  It isn't about even sides, it's about power and  control.



no, its about something MORE than just 1on1's.

the idea of this game is to have fun, whatever way you find fun. some find flying around empty maps doing 1on1's fun (DA was for this)..... some find taking bases in a full blown "war" fun. some find both fun.

its not about imbalance and dominating.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 15, 2006, 03:19:01 PM
I don't really like one on ones much either for the most part... I love 5 on 7's or 7 on 7's...   or 30 on 25's or whatever.   why couldn't that happen?

My point is that you have the same planes to choose from and the same amount of players to use these resources yet.... you can't play the way you want?  

What do you want?  you are going to have to lay it out for me cause I don't understand.   70 people is still 70 people.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Guppy35 on September 15, 2006, 03:19:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DaPup
I'm not so sure about your reasoning there Dan, I liked having 500 people in the arena but didn't really care for the land grab. If I wanted to have good 1 on 1 fights I went to the DA.

I'm sure the change won't bother me a bit but all the people knocking the other players down for voicing their opinions is about as helpful as them complaining about a change they have no control over.


Not everyone is going to like the changes and keep their accounts active...that's life...there was, and is, more to the game though than just "good fights", if there wasn't then why have the ability to record a rank and "win" the war.

I think in the long term this will make alot more people happy than unhappy and any kinks will be worked out...give them time.


I guess I should clarify it better.  I have no problem with folks reasonably voicing their concerns.  Certainly there will be tweaks and changes as this goes along and that's all good.

I'm speaking more of the tantrums "I'm going to take my ball and go home" guys unwilling to give anything new a chance.  

A quick stop in to the arenas this afternoon and it appears the single latewar MA is exactly what the MA used to be with all the planes enabled just not 500 people.  

Skuzzy was referring to changes in the plane sets etc.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: LYNX on September 15, 2006, 03:19:56 PM
OK, end of day 2 of the new set up.  After reviewing my initial thoughts which are still in favour of the change. There are factors that I'm not best pleased with.

Yer it's HTC's business & I'm just renting player time but as a customer I feel I've taken a bit of a slap in the face.

No heads up on changes..... fair enough.  He prolly didn't want the flak before we even seen or experienced the changes.

No detailed reasoning for adults to grasp.  We get the briefist of explinations.  Some of which talks of "data", "figures" that I hope haven't been founded on helium squeekers on their 6 weeks off school, or Influences by marketeers saying why they should pump more money into TV ads

No new features such as period peaces per arena or gaming features to aid squad chat.  Nothing to supplement the changes.  We get a promise of "things to come" and the 2 week thing is wearing a tad thin mates.

My thoughts are thus... not professional to stomp on your customers.  Not professional to implement changes without added features / suplements and "HOW RUDE"

No I'm not cancelling me sub.  Yes I'll hang in there. Do I expect things to settle down yes.  HTC will iron out ENY and no mannable cv / ack in time but the slap in a customers face is well.....RUDE

I guess it was easier to implement this change than perk the hord planes and code out dive bombing, suicider bombers.
:O
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Eagler on September 15, 2006, 03:21:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ByeBye
The MA should have been left and the others added. The palyer base is smart enough to fly were they want, withought being coerced into a decision.


well, that's where you are  wrong .. bye byebye
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: DaPup on September 15, 2006, 03:25:14 PM
Yes Dan, I think Skuzzy had mentioned something along the lines of late war having everything enabled...which I think is good. I also think that asking for the old MA to be put up with the combination of the new arenas would fail miserably since I truly believe that the majority of players would end up in there again and we would have 3 new AvA arenas with 20 people on.

This will take time to get used to and to work out the kinks, lets bear with it and give 'em some time guys.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: rod367th on September 15, 2006, 03:28:00 PM
THE SKY IS FALLING
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Iron_Cross on September 15, 2006, 03:49:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
If you are  a kind of purist who just lives for the pure aerial fight, if you like prearranged extended 1v1 or 2v2 fights, then it�s great. But many players just love the big "epic" (ok, now I�m exaggerating a bit) battles for bases, combined GV/fighter buff actions with much more participants.

I�m fond of a good furball or a hard fought duel from time to time, but it�s getting boring very fast for me.

Also AvA numbers dropped of considerably after a short time, I think that may be one reason for this...


1.  The only placed for "Prearranged" fights is TA or DA, so that argument will go in the circular file for now.

2.  Obviously you did not see the "epic" battle in the Early Arena, between A1 and A2.  Again your argument finds no purchase.

3.  YMMV

4.  AvA numbers droped because IMHO things got stale, with the narrow restricted planesets.  Yes we have a restricted planeset, but a much wider selection than the 4 or 5 planes you could have selected in the AvA arena.  Also if you didn't like the setup at that particular time, you didn't log in to AvA you logged into the Main, another reason the AvA arena had low numbers.

IMHO this is great for the community in general, despite the nay sayers.  You still get to fly the planes you want.  If you want to fly a Spit I, you can, and not have to worry about getting totaly OWNED by the 4-6 La-7's/Niki's/Dora's looking to pad their score.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 68Ripper on September 15, 2006, 03:53:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DaPup
. I also think that asking for the old MA to be put up with the combination of the new arenas would fail miserably since I truly believe that the majority of players would end up in there again and we would have 3 new AvA arenas with 20 people on.



:huh

going out on a limb here, but you think there might be a GOOD REASON why most would go back to the MA?? Maybe because they don't want to be forced to fly planes they don't want to fly simply because the Arena that has their favorites is either full or empty?? Geez
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Domin on September 15, 2006, 04:01:07 PM
Well the late arena now has the full planeset. And it is also by far the most populated arena. How could that be? Maybe people were not just looking for attention and really did like main? Interesting. Now we have the best of both worlds.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Overlag on September 15, 2006, 04:01:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I don't really like one on ones much either for the most part... I love 5 on 7's or 7 on 7's...   or 30 on 25's or whatever.   why couldn't that happen?

My point is that you have the same planes to choose from and the same amount of players to use these resources yet.... you can't play the way you want?  

What do you want?  you are going to have to lay it out for me cause I don't understand.   70 people is still 70 people.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


have you not noticed that they are now spread between 3 arena's?!?! ;)

70 players IS NOT 70 in one arena now, its 20 in one, 15 in another, and 35 in another.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SIK1 on September 15, 2006, 04:02:42 PM
Truthfuly I don't think I would ever go back to the old MA as long as there is a EW, and MW arena. Flying in the MW arena last night was refreshing, the chatter on 200 was civil, if not friendly. The fights for the most part were good, no lala's picken and runnin'. Numbers were about even between sides.

Kind of reminded me of the old AW days, and I think just about everybody will agree that AW had one heck of a community.

Sure HTC has some tweaking to do, but all in all a great move to improve both the game and the community that is the true heart of the game.

SIK1
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Baine on September 15, 2006, 04:03:54 PM
So let me get this straight: the main problem with the old MA was that Lazs couldn't take off or land?
Maybe HiTech shoulda given him some flying lessons and left the MA alone.
Or maybe with 17645 posts he shoulda spent some more time flying and less posting. Who knows?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 68Ripper on September 15, 2006, 04:04:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
lusche... I am still not getting it...

Are you saying that the total number of players on durring off peak hours has dropped or that the number is about the same but the 3 arenas are splitting it up?

If it is the former that's bad... the latter... the players should be able to fix.   simply all go to the same arena... choose up sides and it should be as good or better than it was in the old MA.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's





So it's sounds to me like the off peak hour guys have to pay to play in a arena they don't want to be in because it doesn't have their plane set in there, just to try to have a good time   :confused:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 15, 2006, 04:09:22 PM
No, what they're saying is that with more choices, other people are logging into other arenas, so it's harder to force them to play the same way it was just a few days ago.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: rogerdee on September 15, 2006, 04:16:24 PM
i came on went in ea arena not many people mostly on one side  spent 20 minutes  looking for a fight   all i found was  a horde  vulching 1 filed and not wanting to fight.the arena  reset itself  and we all got booted.

went in to middle arena 70 guys but  one side still out numberd 4 to 1 and still no onw wanted  to fight.

finaly went  to late  which is just like the old MA now bit only with 250 guys.

if its  going to be a cap on a erna at least make it  a country cap
eg  210 players allowed in so thats 70 per side.

i like flying early war planes  but its not fun when only 25 people there  and then when it did get busy couldnt get in because it was full and ended in the miiddle  with 40 guys .

sucks
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 15, 2006, 04:16:27 PM
I will reserve judgment on the new setup for a later date.
gonna give it some time and a chance first.

I just wish I could still have my 109F in the late war arena
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Overlag on September 15, 2006, 04:18:58 PM
whats all this talk about forcing people into doing things?
Title: HiTech Creations, inc Where are you???
Post by: lefty2 on September 15, 2006, 04:21:24 PM
HiTech management your last response to this thread was yesterday afternoon, and was a limited response at that. Are the issues razed here not important to you?

Squad members and friends are leaving the game, this is very disappointing to me. Do you care? How would I know, if you did or did not care. Think about it. A bulletin board is used to communicate.

I don't know what you are doing or why. The statement as to why seem to me, to be vague and undefined. My monthly subscription to you is well defined. I believe that monthly loyalty entitles me to at least a statement as to the direction Aces High is being taken and some definition of the future. (what is going on and what are you doing? the why would be nice to ) Perhaps a news letter would do.

Most important, I firmly believe the owners and management at Hitech Creations inc, has miscalculated and blundered stupendously! I ask, have you ever had a service that you pay for change overnight with out notice? This is a game service that I pay for, not a game show full of surprises. "What we have here is a failure to communicate" The question is will this arrogance continue? Is it that the community (subscribers) knows nothing or is it just "its good to be the king"?

Hitech I call on you, you owe the community and or subscribers at large a heartfelt and sincere apology. The changes you have made have caused a great deal of confusion, discontent and all around unhappiness. The reason I call for this apology is because it could have all been avoided if you had simply brought this matter up early and dealt with it before hand, not to mention that it appears you were ill prepared to make the changes  you did.

Check your history, failure to interact with your customers in an effective fashion almost always leads to disaster!

As for the changes them selves time will tell. Some good ideas I'm sure, however I have seen some better ideas posted on the message boards. Would it be taken against me, if I were to use that word arrogance, again. If you are indeed planning expansion the failure to source the most valuable commodity ideas would be a tremendous loss. There are most definitely good ideas here on this board although they need development.

On that note of expansion, that would be more satisfied, happy subscribers rather than less subscribers that were disgruntled and unhappy. Given this episode you might want to consider a public relations consultant, if so I am available. But remember, more happy subscribers is the key to expansion and success.

sincerely
Lefty
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: twitchy on September 15, 2006, 04:23:53 PM
There were Four knights in the Late War Arena this Morning defending against 18 Bish who just rolled us up and took base after base. I got so sick of that I logged off leaving three knights to defend and honestly I don't know if I want to get back on until this CRAP is fixed.
There were players literally begging for people to up so they could find a fight and the perk bonus when I logged was 7 something. My squad was spread out across three arenas with no way to organize or communicate.
Absolute Rubbish.
For the first time in Six Years I gave some serious thought to canceling my subsciption. If this is going to permanent, I think I will.
Change is good sometimes, but Jesus H, if it isn't broke...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ridley1 on September 15, 2006, 04:25:02 PM
Early impressons on the set up:

Enable all early war units in Mid-War

Enable all in Late war.

Increase the plane set

Let me get into a field gun (ENY of 1?).The ratings are all out of whack

Give me enough strength to get through the time it'll take for arena popualtions to stabalize.

$50 says that inj three months, these boards will be full of insults between early, mid and late arena flyers
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: jamesdeanoo7 on September 15, 2006, 04:26:48 PM
I still havent heard one honest, lucid reason why if you really believe most people like this and want the change you dont leave one ma arena up.Whats wrong with 2 types of customer ??? why are we arguing ??? With the amount of different customers why not have a bigger product to offer. I am sure you would find fairly quickly which product gained most revenue. Also maybe they would gradually move between both arenas. Personally after being gang banged for 3 days by hoards and out numbered I promise you I would never leave an ma for this. As for swopping sides to even things up...are you really from this game???? the comradship and team spirit is why I am here , oh I see because there are 20 of us and 6 of them some of us should join them and kill our friends  ??? I think you are on a different wave length to the rest of us. If you and your squasd find that amusing it just shows me that you really are a minority.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: twitchy on September 15, 2006, 04:28:03 PM
Just out of curiosity, how many of you people that are supporting this 'change' actually have and are paying for an account? If you aren't a paying subscriber, then your point is kind of moot. :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Lusche on September 15, 2006, 04:28:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Iron_Cross
1.  The only placed for "Prearranged" fights is TA or DA, so that argument will go in the circular file for now.

2.  Obviously you did not see the "epic" battle in the Early Arena, between A1 and A2.  Again your argument finds no purchase.


 



If you dont mind, i will get my arguments back out of the circular file again

1. The only placed for "Prearranged" fights is TA or DA, so that argument will go in the circular file for now.

While only place intended to be for prearranged fights are TA & DA, exactly that happened the last two days. People not interested in Milkrunning were callign out on ch 200 were they could be found. Not hard to understand when someone bears in mind the low number of players onlin

2. Obviously you did not see the "epic" battle in the Early Arena, between A1 and A2. Again your argument finds no purchase.

Obviously you did not note the time I am talking about in my posts. Sorry, but at the times Im talking about there were no such battles. They could be found only at times when the majority of US players were starting to log on.  

And I  watched all arenas the last 2 days, hopping around at every time of the day (much to my wifes chagrin ...)


EDIT:
I think I have beaten this horse to dust now... Time to leave this thread alone .. Ive become very repetitive ;)

All nay- and yay- sayers! :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Domin on September 15, 2006, 04:46:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I will reserve judgment on the new setup for a later date.
gonna give it some time and a chance first.

I just wish I could still have my 109F in the late war arena


 You can the late war arena is just like main (FULL planeset) except for the cap limit now. Only thing is it will be hard to get into during prime time.

BTW, arenas are closed right now...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 15, 2006, 04:50:15 PM
ok.. just checked out of early war... were 70 or so on..

Great fight between two fields with 4 on 3 an 5 on 4 fights.   Got 4 kills in maybe 15 miunutes... one sortie had two kills after chasing around a bit...

How is this bad?  seems the guys doing it were having a blast... a6m... f4f and hurri 1 and some 109e and f....

Sooo... how many times you guys see those planes in the "everything goes" ma?   you don't.

You guys that hate it either are in mega squads and can't go to the bathroom by yourself or... you like having the fastest plane in the game and hunting down those stupid enough to enjoy early war planes...  

Somebody asked... I like the arenas for the most part and yes.... I have a subscription....  I have never heard of most of the guys complaining but I bet a look at their stats would show what they liked to do and why they don't want choice.

lazs
Public Relatiions Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 15, 2006, 04:52:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by twitchy
Just out of curiosity, how many of you people that are supporting this 'change' actually have and are paying for an account? If you aren't a paying subscriber, then your point is kind of moot. :aok


I like the whining so much, I created an account on general principle!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: betty on September 15, 2006, 04:54:38 PM
ok, i guess i could put my 2 cents in here too, everyone else is...

i don't like the changes, only cuz i can't fly my tiff and fly with the rest of my squadies, alot of my squadies like the EA better and my tiff is in the LA, so i choose to fly with my squadies in the EA cuz thats what makes the game. i must admit that if it wasn't for the changes that have happened, i prolly would have never flown the f4f - 4 or the a - 5 whatever it is, yes i miss my main ride and when i'm the only one on, then i fly in the LA, but when everyone else is on, i either fly with them in planes i'm not used to or i just sit in the tower and bs with everyone. i'm not gonna whine or cry bout how HTC is providing their services, i'm gonna give it a month or so, see how things end up after all the drama settles and if i'm not happy then, well, there is always the RL thing ( god forbid ) or there are other games online that r like this one like warbirds. looks like cool game, i might have to give that a try if my relationship with HTC doesn't quite work out :)

who knows how this will all turn out....no one knows till you give it a try. i'm sure if HTC see's that its not really workin the way they had hoped, that they will make other changes to see if they can improve it for everyone. who knows....

good luck to yall that rn't happy, and <> to yall that r happy

i'm neutral at this point

<>

betty
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 15, 2006, 04:55:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rod367th
THE SKY IS FALLING

Whaaaaaa....i'm offended....whaaaaa...HTC is a bunch of meanies....whaaaaa...i'm going to cancel my account.....whaaaaa...we're all gonna die!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 68Ripper on September 15, 2006, 04:55:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
maybe I am still not understanding the complaints...

Every single plane is enabled at one field or another in one arena or another.

If you like late war fluffs or tanks or whatever... go to that arena.  

I don't understand the no players whine either...  If there are 50 on then that is twice as much as AvA uses to have great fights with non stop action...

But wait.... you want to play with 50-100 of your closests friends in life right?   That was what was wrong with the old MA...  Us BK's will even fight each other..  be surprised how fun that is.

You all claim you want the 500 people community but...  you never fly with more than 125 or so anyway... you pick a chess peice and a mega squad and put on the old blinders.... never to even meet and fly with anyone from another chess piece...  Try switching around a little to even up numbers and see how you like really meeting some of the other players.

I have heard that allmost all planes were unavailable to some of you.... No kidding?   Why is that?  Cause you had your head so far up your chesspiece and buddies that you couldn't balance the numbers no matter how much it would have enhanced gameplay.

Sure... we need some more ways to even up the sides and maybe some less of a time limit to switch countries but ... this new idea is a great one and will only get better...

The old MA could only get more stale every day.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's



This ladies and gentlemen is the type clientele these new Arenas were designed around and for. :furious :furious :furious
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: KAntti on September 15, 2006, 04:59:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 68Ripper
I think your missing the gist of most of these complaints, A lot of prople like change however when change is thrust upon them with a untested enviroment, that doesn't work for everyone, well people just get a bit pissed. especially when ENY is so high the only thing you can up to defend your base is a B5N2, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe this plane even has guns.


Let me get my self straight (sober? can't be done). I totally understand and respect (like I had any say in this) your point. What I will be screaming in the next couple of paragraphs will propably explain. I my self, in my humble opinion do not expect every one to cope with something unproven and un- "beta tested" or such -half-way-there product-, especially when one is already paying hard cash to receive (or ecpecting to continue receiving) good entertainment. In this case, and even though HTC has never after the AH beta let me down, I must admit this change has presented ONE FUNDAMENTAL FLAW, that should have been adressed before introduction.

THE ENY-VALUE
There are only three parties all fighting each other in four arenas, so even it seems mathematically extremely impropable that one of these sides would lack strength altogether, this can, AND WILL HAPPEN! I witnessed it this evening. The ENY value was designed for the late-MA (let us call it the LMA) with its large CAP in mind. In smaller CAP and dispersed partipancy however, this results in sides, say Knights and Rooks fighting each other with C47's, because theres no one defending Bishop country. MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR PROBLEM!!!!

PYRO, this really needs to be fixed now, not tomorrow.

There are couple of possibilities I would suggest (again, in the humblest way imaginable:) :

1. Eliminate the ENY.
This most propably is not applicable as the time to time empty arenas will screw up the initial scores due to arena hopping scorehores.

2. Introduce a third party value (like there is in the game it self) into the calculation.
Not only should the ENY value be changed due to defending value of A country. Have the defending value calculate the arena total. 3 rooks against 3 knights against 0 bishops will result in tie. If the knights are smart, (and expansionists as proven) they will in turn zero out the expansion of the rooks and vice versa. Or the Bish country will be out for pickings for both one of them like race to Berlin.
This arrangement will also outrule the empty arena milkruns as resulting one third majority will effectively kill the attackers intentions.

3. Have the ENY value increase only and only on the bomber, attack and field capture capable planes. This way two country's can fight, have fun and keep it simple without fear of abusing field capture opportunities if there's no defending party in the third. This also rules out the milkruns, but does not support field capture and therefor true "fight to the end" competition between any and only two parties participating.

In any case, THIS IS A MAJOR ISSUE PYRO! I am pro change, but the ENY value, as it is, EFFECTIVELY PROHIBITES even a FAIR FIGHT between any given two thirds.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Hammy on September 15, 2006, 05:04:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Meddog:

Here is an idea. Maybe Hitech should shut the game down for a week to teach you dweebs who owns this game. He has the right to make what ever changes he sees fit and you have two choices here either play the game in the format inwhich it is designed or find another game, it's that simple. either way I dont care. I dont know if this change is good, bad or indiffernet, it's too soon to tell and i'm willing to give HiTech ample time to sort out the bugs. I'm sure Hitech will welcome any suggestions or constructive critisism that the community may have but the attitude that some of you seem to have that some how paying $15 a month gives you some sort of right to tell Hitech how to run his business, the old "do it my way or i'm taking my toys and going home" routine takes some audacaciouse set of Kahoonas nor did I see any thing that remotely resembled mandating that HiTech confer with its membership or certain players within before any changes are implemented when I signed up for my membership. If it were me, ide tell you to go to hell and take your $15 with you and dont let the door hit you on the butt on the way out. Like I said if you have something constructive to say thats great but if all your going to do is ***** and complain than i sugget you shut your pie hole and/or leave. And no i dont beleive in political correctness so if I hurt your feelings or offended you, TOUGH.


erm.........have i just found Hitechs shades account?????:rofl

Im not going to be judgemental about the changes just yet, im prepared to give them a chance but there is 1 thing i DONT agree with;

Why take away the choice of the old MA?:furious

you could have left it and added the new arenas.

but i KNOW why.

Because the "patronage" (similiar to patronise huh?)  wouldnt have gone to the arenas and humble pie aint so tasty huh?:rolleyes:

At least give the "patronage" the choice.:aok

why fix something that aint broke? :noid
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: KAntti on September 15, 2006, 05:14:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
If you are  a kind of purist who just lives for the pure aerial fight, if you like prearranged extended 1v1 or 2v2 fights, then its great. But many players just love the big "epic" (ok, now Im exaggerating a bit) battles for bases, combined GV/fighter buff actions with much more participants.

Im fond of a good furball or a hard fought duel from time to time, but its getting boring very fast for me.

Also AvA numbers dropped of considerably after a short time, I think that may be one reason for this...


Reason why AvA died "very" quiqly is that it did not offer much to the enthusiastic participants. The first yells of "Yeii! We get to fight Spits and Hurris with 109 Es and 110 4s" died very quickly because there was nothing after that. We didn't have maps nor the planes to actually represent the historical equivalent plane sets in historically "accurate" maps, other than the BOB. Like I stated before, this is a dead end. Nothing to improve on or new to offer to the playing community will kill the game.

The reason for MA being so great in participant numbers is -IT'S EASY-. This is perfectly alright, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN ENJOYING A HOBBY. What went off course with MA was the -easy factor- sucking in new players who never found out how to fly a plane or figured out that there even was something else to the game than MA and gave up as soon as the clock said "two weeks".

Now I love a good field capture mission, but I will not tolerate people who will feed the undertrained neewbs to cannons and gather the glory following in.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 15, 2006, 05:19:54 PM
Just logged in to give it another go. Late war arena, Only 25 or so knits. The only red dar was 2 sectors from our front line. The Bish and Rooks were fighting each other and basically ignoring us.  Please just give us the MA back and an Early and Mid-war Arena...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Lusche on September 15, 2006, 05:27:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Just logged in to give it another go. Late war arena, Only 25 or so knits. The only red dar was 2 sectors from our front line. The Bish and Rooks were fighting each other and basically ignoring us.  Please just give us the MA back and an Early and Mid-war Arena...


Oh, we just had a server reset. We had lots more ppl before that.
Title: Re: HiTech Creations, inc Where are you???
Post by: Jaccpot on September 15, 2006, 05:34:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lefty2
HiTech management your last response to this thread was yesterday afternoon, and was a limited response at that. Are the issues razed here not important to you?

Squad members and friends are leaving the game, this is very disappointing to me. Do you care? How would I know, if you did or did not care. Think about it. A bulletin board is used to communicate.

I don't know what you are doing or why. The statement as to why seem to me, to be vague and undefined. My monthly subscription to you is well defined. I believe that monthly loyalty entitles me to at least a statement as to the direction Aces High is being taken and some definition of the future. (what is going on and what are you doing? the why would be nice to ) Perhaps a news letter would do.

Most important, I firmly believe the owners and management at Hitech Creations inc, has miscalculated and blundered stupendously! I ask, have you ever had a service that you pay for change overnight with out notice? This is a game service that I pay for, not a game show full of surprises. "What we have here is a failure to communicate" The question is will this arrogance continue? Is it that the community (subscribers) knows nothing or is it just "its good to be the king"?

Hitech I call on you, you owe the community and or subscribers at large a heartfelt and sincere apology. The changes you have made have caused a great deal of confusion, discontent and all around unhappiness. The reason I call for this apology is because it could have all been avoided if you had simply brought this matter up early and dealt with it before hand, not to mention that it appears you were ill prepared to make the changes  you did.

Check your history, failure to interact with your customers in an effective fashion almost always leads to disaster!

As for the changes them selves time will tell. Some good ideas I'm sure, however I have seen some better ideas posted on the message boards. Would it be taken against me, if I were to use that word arrogance, again. If you are indeed planning expansion the failure to source the most valuable commodity ideas would be a tremendous loss. There are most definitely good ideas here on this board although they need development.

On that note of expansion, that would be more satisfied, happy subscribers rather than less subscribers that were disgruntled and unhappy. Given this episode you might want to consider a public relations consultant, if so I am available. But remember, more happy subscribers is the key to expansion and success.

sincerely
Lefty


Best Said Lefty. Couldn't have said it better.:aok :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ROC on September 15, 2006, 05:38:13 PM
ppssstt  there is more than This thread for information.  Check "Announcements"
____
 Host changes

We made the following host changes today to address some of the issues that have come up so far.

Added a dot command to find other players online. The command is ".f playerID" typed into your text buffer with playerID being the ID of the person you are looking for.

Added a dot command to send a page to another player in a different arena. The command is ".p playerID message text" with playerID being the ID of the person you want to page and message text being the message you want to send.

Your squad text channel now works across all arenas that your squad is established. (Will work across all Main Arenas, perhaps other arenas as well)

A player can now belong to a separate country for each type of main arena. Country change times are also independent between main arena types.

Fixed issues in the ENY side balancing system that was disabling field guns and could disable all planes if sides became too unbalanced.

Some early planes are no longer retired from service in the mid and late arenas.

Hangar hardness in the early war arena is 75% of the mid and late war arenas.

A new main arena of the same type will be added to the arena list when an arena becomes 90% full.

__________________

Pyro

__

Dunno, looks to me like they are paying pretty close attention, and modifying things as they fine tune Real Time over Concept.  

Continue ranting, didn't mean to interrupt :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Jaccpot on September 15, 2006, 05:45:36 PM
Sounds like the whinning is paying off.:cry SWEET :aok :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Spatula on September 15, 2006, 06:03:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bear69
that would also be a good idea, but you can CLOSE arena's during certain times of the day when numbers are low.  Keep 2 of the 4 closed during off peak hours and just have an early and late war.


Yup, this is my biggest and only real problem with the set up. I have suggested this in a previous post. Only hope people are listening. When i was on last night (early morning US time) there was stuff all people on and it WAS very hard to find nearly anyone. And when you did you normally had 3 or 4 other friendlies see the dar bars and come hoarding in, then it turned into a 1v1 to a 4v1 and the 1 then logs off thens theres nothing. Repeat.
Nearly everyone on line at that time shared the same sentiments on chnl 200 and were getting VERY frustrated! A lot of quit talk...

Thanks HTC for closing one of the late war arenas - that was MUCH MUCH needed, but the best possible outcome would be perhaps during certain times only periods shutdown mid-war arena (there were 4 people in it) and make those planes avail as perks in the EW and free in the LW and put the perks up on things in the LW maybe?? maybe think about perking la7s spit16s ponys etc but at low low prices to make the mid-war machines more competitive??
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Domin on September 15, 2006, 06:06:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ROC
ppssstt  there is more than This thread for information.  Check "Announcements"
____
 Host changes

We made the following host changes today to address some of the issues that have come up so far.

Added a dot command to find other players online. The command is ".f playerID" typed into your text buffer with playerID being the ID of the person you are looking for.

Added a dot command to send a page to another player in a different arena. The command is ".p playerID message text" with playerID being the ID of the person you want to page and message text being the message you want to send.

Your squad text channel now works across all arenas that your squad is established. (Will work across all Main Arenas, perhaps other arenas as well)

A player can now belong to a separate country for each type of main arena. Country change times are also independent between main arena types.

Fixed issues in the ENY side balancing system that was disabling field guns and could disable all planes if sides became too unbalanced.

Some early planes are no longer retired from service in the mid and late arenas.

Hangar hardness in the early war arena is 75% of the mid and late war arenas.

A new main arena of the same type will be added to the arena list when an arena becomes 90% full.

__________________

Pyro

__

Dunno, looks to me like they are paying pretty close attention, and modifying things as they fine tune Real Time over Concept.  

Continue ranting, didn't mean to interrupt :)


I'm happy now, thanks htc :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Spatula on September 15, 2006, 06:10:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
lusche... I am still not getting it...
the latter... the players should be able to fix.   simply all go to the same arena...


Just how do you suggest organising that?? with people coming and going from arenas, and its seems at the moment most want to do the early war slow turn fight furball thing. And even if you could organise it, not everyone would want to. You basically cant consolidate the low numbers into one arena without shutting the other two. Simple as that.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 15, 2006, 06:11:22 PM
Sudz, HiTech, and their netgimp all on at the same time, responding to concerns and addressing issues within the new setup. I like that. :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 15, 2006, 06:25:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hammy
why fix something that aint broke? :noid

Because it WAS broke, has been since attendance reached over 350-400 players.

and...not directed at you Hammy...

For all those naysayers who think this was rushed into place without much thought...and no testing (which is occuring rioght now while you pi$$ and moan)...you have no idea how HTC does their job...or in fact who Dale and Doug are...if you actually beleive such drivel.

For all those who want the old MA back...it is still there...the late war arena has nearly every ride enabled...if ENY is a problem it is due to the players not the game designers...sure it has a cap, but that is not a factor since it is less popular...I don't think it has ever been full since the change...what you miss is in fact ganging with your 30+ squaddies...and milkrunning undefended (or at least underdefended) bases in uber-rides...because those things are all that has really been reduced.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Spatula on September 15, 2006, 06:30:24 PM
How about this for a suggestion:

Have 2 Main Arenas. Early War, and a Late War. Difference is that there are no plane limitations in either arena. Use the existing perk system to balance the arenas. But this time use the perk system with some nads for a change. In the EW you enable 1939 - 1942 aircraft, and in the LW you enable ALL aircraft. In the EW for each plane introduced after 1940 are perked and progressively get more expensive the later they were introduced. Do the same thing in the LW arena but start at 1942 etc.

My point is have two arenas, one which allows early to mid planes, but all mid planes cost. The other you allow mid to late and all late planes cost.

What do you think?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: The Fugitive on September 15, 2006, 06:35:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Jaccpot
Sounds like the whinning is paying off.:cry SWEET :aok :aok


Quote
Originally posted by Domin
I'm happy now, thanks htc  


If you guys had read the original post by Pyro.... 1000 posts ago... instead of spending all your time here crying you would have seen that they were working on this stuff and trying to get it implemented ASAP. Thats why so many people are saying "give it a chance" because HTC is very good at updates and fixes. They know they won't get it right the first time without any bugs.... heck Skuzzy's STILL tripping over the power cord !

Give it a few weeks, and you'll see think start to settle down.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 15, 2006, 06:35:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Domin
You can the late war arena is just like main (FULL planeset) except for the cap limit now. Only thing is it will be hard to get into during prime time.

BTW, arenas are closed right now...


Tried last night
109F was disabled
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 15, 2006, 06:47:09 PM
Well was disabled LAST NIGHT lol
Might not be any mo
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 15, 2006, 06:52:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Spatula
How about this for a suggestion:

Have 2 Main Arenas. Early War, and a Late War. Difference is that there are no plane limitations in either arena. Use the existing perk system to balance the arenas. But this time use the perk system with some nads for a change. In the EW you enable 1939 - 1942 aircraft, and in the LW you enable ALL aircraft. In the EW for each plane introduced after 1940 are perked and progressively get more expensive the later they were introduced. Do the same thing in the LW arena but start at 1942 etc.

My point is have two arenas, one which allows early to mid planes, but all mid planes cost. The other you allow mid to late and all late planes cost.

What do you think?


It wouldn't work any better in smaller arenas than it would have in the MA. The performance/armament disparities are more pronounced in the EW planes, and giving every vet or vulcher free reign in perk rides vs all the noobs in EW planes would be a recipe for frustration.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Panzzer on September 15, 2006, 06:54:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by KAntti
Reason why AvA died .....
But it ain't dead yet. Had some good fights in there today, even after the Main Arenas came back. :)

People seem to think that an arena with less than 100 people (or whatever the limit) is dead, usually I could find a better fight faster in the AvA (even with only 2 people in there) than in the MA, now in the Early War arena furballing seems to be a hit. I still haven't been to the other arenas yet. But the change looks good to me.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Tilt on September 15, 2006, 07:01:25 PM
I think I would prefer the EW arena to draw the line for all vehicles and  ac at  the end of Dec 41.

Perking the Spit V and the Hurri IIc

This would leave the M3 and the Jeep as the only 2 vehicles in this arena.


I think I would prefer the MW arena to draw the line for all vehicles and  ac at  the end of Dec 43.  Possibly make an exception for the Panzer MkIV to let it in.

Maybe perk the MkVIII and the Typhoon (if it becomes unbalancing)

Some of the mid to late 44  stuff flying in the mid war is silly some stuff even later than the La7!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Lusche on September 15, 2006, 07:16:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tilt
I think I would prefer the EW arena to draw the line for all vehicles and  ac at  the end of Dec 41.

Perking the Spit V and the Hurri IIc

This would leave the M3 and the Jeep as the only 2 vehicles in this arena.

 


But I always thought  the T34 was already in use 1941?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: zorstorer on September 15, 2006, 07:21:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I don't really like one on ones much either for the most part... I love 5 on 7's or 7 on 7's...   or 30 on 25's or whatever.   why couldn't that happen?

My point is that you have the same planes to choose from and the same amount of players to use these resources yet.... you can't play the way you want?  

What do you want?  you are going to have to lay it out for me cause I don't understand.   70 people is still 70 people.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


I can answer that....tell me what arena to log into to get the chance to shoot down a la7 or spit16 with a hurri mk1?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 68Ripper on September 15, 2006, 07:31:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert1
Because it WAS broke, has been since attendance reached over 350-400 players.

and...not directed at you Hammy...

For all those naysayers who think this was rushed into place without much thought...and no testing (which is occuring rioght now while you pi$$ and moan)...you have no idea how HTC does their job...or in fact who Dale and Doug are...if you actually beleive such drivel.

For all those who want the old MA back...it is still there...the late war arena has nearly every ride enabled...if ENY is a problem it is due to the players not the game designers...sure it has a cap, but that is not a factor since it is less popular...I don't think it has ever been full since the change...what you miss is in fact ganging with your 30+ squaddies...and milkrunning undefended (or at least underdefended) bases in uber-rides...because those things are all that has really been reduced.


All right Mr brilliance, you sound like the type of person that someone could sell a car to, take your money and then tell you oh by the way this is just a proto type there may be a few bugs like the transmission may fall out or the engine may quit on you but hey you bought it and we will watch and see how your new purchase turns out. And by the way your Old car was just smashed in our compactor.

Change is good but you should never put a untested product out to your customer base. Just doesn't make sense. People have concerns about the game most have been playing for years. And just like you they have a right to voice those concerns.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 15, 2006, 07:40:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert1
I agree with Yeager and Lazs on the balance/inbalance of the sides here, the PLAYERS are the cause of that not HTC. The only thing that needs to be done is that the timer that restricts team changing needs to be shortened to 30 minutes or eliminated altogether.

Last night when I logged on the EW was pretty balanced, I switched to Bish to fly with a squaddie and within an hour or so the Bish were about 50% of the arena population. I did not like being ENY limited because my team started ganging, it was as bad as being part of the gang in the first place. I prefer to fight the lamers in the gang than be a part of it, but I could not switch back.



As you mention.. swapping sides constantly to try and keep numbers even is difficult.   And.. that is using the thought process of only being interested in Air to Air fights, not field capture etc. which is important to some flyers.  

For squads of any size to swap back and forth, it becomes very difficult.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Tilt on September 15, 2006, 07:43:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
But I always thought  the T34 was already in use 1941?


Ours is late 42/early 43 version
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Overlag on September 15, 2006, 07:58:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert1
...and milkrunning undefended (or at least underdefended) bases in uber-rides...because those things are all that has really been reduced.


you just summed up the new arenas
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 15, 2006, 08:40:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
you just summed up the new arenas

Maybe the LW/MW arenas, I cannot comment since I've only flown in the EW since the change. But I did not see any milkrunning of undefended bases last night (US prime-time), although I'll acknowlege that may be different in GMT prime-time.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 15, 2006, 08:42:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 68Ripper
All right Mr brilliance, you sound like the type of person that someone could sell a car to, take your money and then tell you oh by the way this is just a proto type there may be a few bugs like the transmission may fall out or the engine may quit on you but hey you bought it and we will watch and see how your new purchase turns out. And by the way your Old car was just smashed in our compactor.
 

 Lighten up Francis, have you been watching the Oxygen channel or Lifetime? Cut the drama for a while. Or are you suggesting the addition of two arenas and a population cap on the old one is the equivalent of a transmission falling out of a new car? Nevermind, it is clear you are equating the two.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 15, 2006, 09:18:00 PM
just experienced my first lockout. Tried LW1 where 6 or so squadies are conducting ops..couldnt get in. Thought..welp maybe we move to LW2..oops  only 40 players in there..and our 6 or 8 will only make it 48 or so..sound like fun? [size= huge]B O R I N I G[/size]:mad: :mad: :mad:  While it is true i have a choice..There is nothing on the shelf that fits or is apealing.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: baine1 on September 15, 2006, 09:21:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by The Fugitive
If you guys had read the original post by Pyro.... 1000 posts ago... instead of spending all your time here crying you would have seen that they were working on this stuff and trying to get it implemented ASAP. Thats why so many people are saying "give it a chance" because HTC is very good at updates and fixes. They know they won't get it right the first time without any bugs.... heck Skuzzy's STILL tripping over the power cord !

Give it a few weeks, and you'll see think start to settle down.


So let's see, you buy a car that doesn't have any wheels, but give Ford some time, they'll fix it?
My complaint about this whole thing is that many, many, many of these problems could have been forseen and addressed before the first person entered the new arenas and yet they were not. It's not like this had to happen NOW. They could have waited a week and addressed all possible bugs.
If you want to implement something new and get people to give it a chance, then you take a look at the forseeable problems and fix them before they occur. If you want to get them extraordinarily pissed off and closed minded about the whole thing, role out a half-assed version and let the fireworks begin.
The way this thing was rolled out is either an example of laziness or total disregard for the customer base. I'd expected better.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 15, 2006, 10:04:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
maybe I am still not understanding the complaints...

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Of course you not silly. :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 15, 2006, 10:10:32 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Hammy
why fix something that aint broke?  

Quote
Originally posted by Edbert1
Because it WAS broke, has been since attendance reached over 350-400 players.

 

In all you infinite wizdomness...explain what was broke about it.
I see a lot of posters that think that it was not broke. This implies that they were enjoying themselves the way thing were. Pyro already said it wasn't a technical problem. This means it was an opinion. Share yours as to exactly what or why there was a problem.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 15, 2006, 10:18:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
just experienced my first lockout. Tried LW1 where 6 or so squadies are conducting ops..couldnt get in. Thought..welp maybe we move to LW2..oops  only 40 players in there..and our 6 or 8 will only make it 48 or so..sound like fun? [size= huge]B O R I N I G[/size]:mad: :mad: :mad:  While it is true i have a choice..There is nothing on the shelf that fits or is apealing.


Mugz.. that is unfortunate.. I was in LW1 and the sides were almost dead even.. good fights...  add the 46 in LW2 when I came out and we had nearly 300 flyers in the LW arenas.  

Same time we had about 160 in the EW and 48 in MW.

Oh and the dot commands for finding squaddies and paging... DON'T WORK!
Neither does squad text channel.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Guppy35 on September 15, 2006, 10:31:00 PM
Having bounced to all three arenas tonite, I'll throw in the following observations, purely my own.

Late War is the old MA.  Same thing.  Every third line on country  was "MISSION UP!".  The Dar bars were one sided with one base or the other the target of the horde and the fast movers.

So the guys screaming for the old MA have it.  But now the cry has changed to it's not enough numbers.  In the end we're still talking about the mega squads wanting to have their guys all in one place.

Early war is much more furball oriented.  Didn't see any mission calls.  Wasn't in there that long though cause it seemed similar to mid-war but more bodies.

Mid-war, which is my preference both here and with all the history interest is still the thinnest in numbers but the fights to be had were good ones for the most part.  Some ack hugging and some 3 v 1 kinda stuff.  Only saw one base taken while I was in there.

Bottom line is the three arenas feed three fairly distinct types of AH.  I still believe it is a good thing, but then again I've never taken to the land grab, mission up! type of AH.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 15, 2006, 11:01:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
In all you infinite wizdomness...explain what was broke about it.
I see a lot of posters that think that it was not broke. This implies that they were enjoying themselves the way thing were. Pyro already said it wasn't a technical problem. This means it was an opinion. Share yours as to exactly what or why there was a problem.


I will take a stab at it. It was broken because there was a large minority that didnt like your style of gameplay but there was no alternative. That had been obvious to us, though since we were a minority, you and the "strategery" types refused to see it. You still refuse to admit there was a problem even after HT changed, fundamentally, his game because of it. We didnt matter to you, so our problems werent really a problem.

The problem for you is, HT saw it as a problem and fixed it. Now, stop crying and get over it, its not going back.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kongkyuk on September 15, 2006, 11:18:41 PM
Okay, I haven't read all the posts, so if this is a repeat sry in advance.

I've played all the arenas and I like the new set up:aok

The only problem is the limited number lock outs:mad:

Alot of players are mad at the low numbers and not being able to squad up.  Which I have a problem with also.

Why not open all the arenas to 700 and see where the crowd goes?

Is there a tech. issue with opening up the arenas to 700 or does the AH staff want to test the new set up by forcing arena play and avoiding one mass MA?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: AKWarp on September 15, 2006, 11:27:06 PM
So, in essence, the minority wins.  Great way to run a business....not.  However, I doubt that was the deciding criteria.

Either way, matters none.  I paid for a game I liked and now I don't like what has been done to it.  I don't need to hear how I should give it time, etc.  That time costs $$$.  I've been hearing for a long time "give it time" and "we're working on it", but the pay off hasn't really occured.  

There were issues in the old MA for sure, but instead of addressing them directly as many requested, we get a typical management type decision..change it all around completely so now it's all messed up.

Part of what I really liked were the big numbers of people in the same arena.  It's boring to play when only 50 or so are in, or 150 at best.  150 might be OK if there were only two teams, but there aren't.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 16, 2006, 12:15:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kongkyuk
Okay, I haven't read all the posts, so if this is a repeat sry in advance.

I've played all the arenas and I like the new set up:aok

The only problem is the limited number lock outs:mad:

Alot of players are mad at the low numbers and not being able to squad up.  Which I have a problem with also.

Why not open all the arenas to 700 and see where the crowd goes?

Is there a tech. issue with opening up the arenas to 700 or does the AH staff want to test the new set up by forcing arena play and avoiding one mass MA?
Well sir...No there isnt a technical issue.  

Quote
Originally posted by Pyro

Is this being done for technical reasons?

No.  While some people on lower end machines may see some performance benefit, it’s not for technical reasons that the change is being made.  
 

because in HTCs opinion...we must not like it. Otherwise why would we even be discussing it here on this thread.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 16, 2006, 12:21:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Mugz.. that is unfortunate.. I was in LW1 and the sides were almost dead even.. good fights...  add the 46 in LW2 when I came out and we had nearly 300 flyers in the LW arenas.  

Same time we had about 160 in the EW and 48 in MW.

Oh and the dot commands for finding squaddies and paging... DON'T WORK!
Neither does squad text channel.
If they insist on keeping the Caps low so that we are forced to fly something or keeping us from squading up due to the arena caps..im outa here.

Quote
Originally posted by Pyro

The caps need to be adjusted.

The cap numbers as well as the numbers of arenas will undergo adjustment as needed.  During the transition, we feel its important not to make them too large in order to overcome habit and herding behavior.  Things will change as we move through the transition period and people begin to regain their comfort level.


 

You see ...this is wherein lies the problem..
Even still...for the good of the rest of the guys.. a "DOT" command to find ALL squad mates would be nice   .f (Squad name) then a full list of who of the squad is on and where they are.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MIShill on September 16, 2006, 01:16:55 AM
With a limited ENY in EW arena tonight, the only plane avail. to me was a Hurri I. I just went away. I presume that did not "improve game play" to have one less participant. When numbers in the arena are low the ENY lockout can occur with a country difference of THREE people. That does'nt work.
-MI-
Title: My Lamentation
Post by: RipT327 on September 16, 2006, 03:33:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by scottydawg


I'm a little surprised by that... I wonder if anyone had any idea the early war arena would be the most popular.


    Majority of the Players were in the Early arena first day..I believe this was coincidental due to it was put in the MA slot on the login Screen.. And face it some of us  just really aren't that bright! :(  Today since the New addition of old planes in Late War arena it was the  Majority.  :)

    With the initial change I was ready to Play my membership out and let it go, untill today when I seen the Late war is Identical to The MA..Call it whatever you will Late war, MA, Dogpile whatever..Thanks HTC for listening to your Customers..If the old WWII buffs (The guys who know every plane and year yada yada yada) Let them have their Arena i'm Sure it will attract old and new.. :) I still dont see the Need for 2 Late War arenas....but....
It seems to be a Helluva Place to Milkrun and Pad your RANK!!!  I could probably ramble on and Lament about more, except its getting late and there are not Enough in any one Arena to have fun with so I'll just go to bed....Usually I would be flying, But late nights SUCK now! Rooks and the 327th.........
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Tilt on September 16, 2006, 03:58:02 AM
I have to say that EW was fun..........

I still do not believe the D5 and the spit IX should be there at all.

The match up between the 109 F the Spit V and the HurriIIC was fun and even the old Martlet (F4F) was fun agin a Hurri IIC.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on September 16, 2006, 04:17:45 AM
Umm.. I didn't have time to read all the posts, but I think this step is the infant cry of TOD. I think HT has a gradual development process in mind where you can gradually advance from timeperiod to another through some storyline and the different timeperiod arenas are a testing ground to that.

Just my guess.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 101ABN on September 16, 2006, 08:10:17 AM
well i have read through about 50 posts here.... too many to read.  I must agree with some of the guys when they say "bring more aircraft and vehicles into the game"... for GVs, i think the Panzer 3 would be a good add to the early arena.. countered by the M3 stewart.  

I havent tried the new version yet but i see good things in the future with this change... one, more people will join the game.. so that will increase numbers in the various arenas.. two, more planes and gvs can be added to the mix.  nobody wanted the sherman tank because it wouldnt last long against the T34 or Tiger... well now the sherman can have a home in the early arena.  

PYRO, what are the odds of us getting new toys added to each arena??
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 16, 2006, 08:19:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
quote:
In all you infinite wizdomness...explain what was broke about it.
I see a lot of posters that think that it was not broke. This implies that they were enjoying themselves the way thing were. Pyro already said it wasn't a technical problem. This means it was an opinion. Share yours as to exactly what or why there was a problem.

I see it like this...
The base capture methods have evolved steadilly over the last ten years. There have been numerous points where it became too easy and it was made a little harder via game design and mechanics. There was a time when 2 -3 guys could take a field in about 60 seconds! The last major things done in AH to make it harder was the limiting of porkage and the creation of cities with a maproom. This sorta had things at a good middle ground. Five players could still capture a field in under five minutes. Seen it done dozens of times, even participated in a few. But if defenders upped against the five attackers (and had any skills and/or determination) they could prevent the capture. So folks started attacking with 10 guys, then 20 then 30. Even a 30-man attack can be easilly thwarted but it takes a larger number of skilled and/or determined pile-its to stop them. Large numbers of skilled and determined pile-its has been becomming rare in any single location over the last year or two. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it doesn't happen as much as it used to.

So when one large group of guys who are willing to fight to take a base meets another large group who are willing to fight to defend it you have a...gasp...FIGHT on your hands. Sometimes they turned into large and long lived furballs in between the two bases that could last for hours, with some ebb and tide as the fight moved back and forth. Now, I'm sure many of the folks b1tching about this change would say that is not fun, and it is an ineffective way to take a base. I'm sure many of them would do one of two things:
1.) Take up a group of 12-21 fluffs from another base, come in at 15K or higher and go pulverise the FHs, thus killing the furball and all the fun so many of those guys were having.
2.) Look on the strategery map and find another base that had little or no bardar and go attack it instead, thus avoiding the fight.

What was wrong with the game is too complicated to boil down concisely into a sound bite for you but it had mainly to do with maps and squads that were too large for the existing strat mechanics to deal with. The game mechanics therefore were literally encouraging folks to avoid a fight. I see that as a big problem in any combat sim of any genre. I mean if you only want to blow stuff up, you can play offline, or pick up a boxed sim and do co-op missions with vox to your heart's content. So, in a nutshell...the MMOL combat sim was intended to allow you to FIGHT other human opponents. The evloution of AH-MA, and the influx of new players, and the huge populations in the MA were all consipiring to make these fights less and less common.

Also I should add...HTC has made it clear that they too recognized the game was in need of a fix, so this is not the opinion only of oldtimers and the BKs.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 16, 2006, 08:19:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Umm.. I didn't have time to read all the posts, but I think this step is the infant cry of TOD. I think HT has a gradual development process in mind where you can gradually advance from timeperiod to another through some storyline and the different timeperiod arenas are a testing ground to that.

Just my guess.


Well I am glad that I am being offered the opportunity to pay for the right to be part of the development team !:(
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Overlag on September 16, 2006, 08:23:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35

Late War is the old MA.  Same thing.  Every third line on country  was "MISSION UP!".  


what the hell is wrong with team work these days?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 16, 2006, 08:26:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKWarp
It's boring to play when only 50 or so are in, or 150 at best.  150 might be OK if there were only two teams, but there aren't.

The problem is not as simple as the numbers. I can tell you I've had great fun and fantastic fights with as few as 50 in arena. All it takes to have fun is guys who are willing to fight. If you have 150 folks in one of these small maps and cannot find a fun fight then you cannot blame HTC, AH, or any management decision. The blame for that rests solely on the players who wont fight.

Fun fights were sometimes hard to find with 500+ players on. You could look at the map and clrearly see four or five hordes all taking bases and avoiding each other. The new arena caps and the use of small maps make it hard to get a group of 40 people together to attack any one base AND make it very hard for multiple "attack forces" (I still call any group of friendlies over 15 within icon range a horde) to avoid each other.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 16, 2006, 08:30:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert

What was wrong with the game is too complicated to boil down concisely into a sound bite for you but it had mainly to do with maps and squads that were too large for the existing strat mechanics to deal with.


Also I should add...HTC has made it clear that they too recognized the game was in need of a fix, so this is not the opinion only of oldtimers and the BKs.


Well.. when you have a game design that rewards map resetting....
seems a bit ironic that one then laments the tactics that are most effective at resetting a map.   I am not a land grab proponent.  I've disliked the real estate agent nature of AH for a long time.  But ... who designed the game?

Perhaps if there were more rewards for the country that shot down the most aircraft or had the best K/D or things of such nature... shifting the bragging right emphasis from land grab it might change.

Also the other two complaints I hear from my peer group (the guys that have flown for over 10 years) is the HO and Cherry Pick.

Flew in the EW for two nights, and trust me... the HO is alive and well as is the Cherry Pick.

I know we are sorting through the settings and difficulties, but I can't help but echo a lot of comments here.  Many of the problems we are experiencing (ENY, FGs not working, etc) are just simply shoddy implementation.  

As for the BKs and if this was their idea...  who cares!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 16, 2006, 08:31:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Well I am glad that I am being offered the opportunity to pay for the right to be part of the development team !:(

Why look at this as a negative? AH has been under continual development for over nine years, and online for over seven. Name for me any currently active game of any genre that can say the same. The ~$0.50 per day this costs is nothing, what would you do with all that loot if you didn't play, buy a coke?

Here's to hoping we all get to be part of it for another decade, I expect Dale will want to retire by then anyway.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Sketch on September 16, 2006, 08:53:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Perhaps if there were more rewards for the country that shot down the most aircraft or had the best K/D or things of such nature... shifting the bragging right emphasis from land grab it might change.


This might bring into the fact no one would want to fight though... just hit and run like the good ol' cherry pickers.  Might work and I like the idea, as we would get more rewards for the win, but then you have the score-mongers who want to pad thier precious score.

Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Also the other two complaints I hear from my peer group (the guys that have flown for over 10 years) is the HO and Cherry Pick.

Flew in the EW for two nights, and trust me... the HO is alive and well as is the Cherry Pick.


Once again, your right here Soup! Was in an F4U-1 and came across three of the best at it: Spit 16, Lgay-7 & Niki.... I dive down and roll up and there they are, all three of them with guns a blazzing for a HO shot at me. Man I must be better in that -1 than I thought! :rofl
The same crap no matter where you go, they perk the Tiffie in the Mid-War but not the La-7, Spit 16 or Niki? WTF!  :rolleyes:  Makes no sense to me, but it is not my game nor did I design it.  I just live with it and if I have to... I just HO back!

Quote
Originally posted by 4510
As for the BKs and if this was their idea...  who cares! [/B]


I didn't know the Burger King's played this game! :lol  So do they have to have it 'Their Way' :rofl
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 16, 2006, 09:11:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Well sir...No there isnt a technical issue.  

 
because in HTCs opinion...we must not like it. Otherwise why would we even be discussing it here on this thread.



Well considering half of this BBS if full of whines from players crying how FUBARed the game play was in the MA, maybe HiTech was responding to community whines...err I mean crying..errr demands to do something.  

I guess some just can't live without their La7s and the security blanket of the hord.


ack-ack
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: The Fugitive on September 16, 2006, 09:34:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 68Ripper
All right Mr brilliance, you sound like the type of person that someone could sell a car to, take your money and then tell you oh by the way this is just a proto type there may be a few bugs like the transmission may fall out or the engine may quit on you but hey you bought it and we will watch and see how your new purchase turns out. And by the way your Old car was just smashed in our compactor.

Change is good but you should never put a untested product out to your customer base. Just doesn't make sense. People have concerns about the game most have been playing for years. And just like you they have a right to voice those concerns.


Ripper, acording to that analogy "they are forcing you to buy that car" HTC isn't forcing you to fly, you can quit or leave at any time.

...oh and btw, why don't you call Ford, Chevy, or Dodge and let them know YOU don't like the head lights they are using on there cars, and if they don't change them right away, your not going to buy any more cars!!!  Im sure they will jump right to it for you.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 16, 2006, 09:44:39 AM
"what is wrong with teamwork"

It killed gameplay.    That's what's wrong with it...  bear with me here..

What is teamwork?  On a team it is working together granted but.. it is against other teams if it is to be a game.

Our "teamwork" consisted of 50 ant like drones all steamrolling undefended or... at best... defended by diverse individuals all playing for different reasons...    that is not a game... That is griefing on a grand scale... slums.

If everyone formed up teams and fought each other then you would have a war... we don't have that...  you have many people with many different ways to have fun.... all being steamrolled by a group of 50 here and 50 there with no real "game" involved..  no competion and no fun for anyone but the steamrollers..

The solution?  the steamrollers say... just form your own mega squads and stop us...  That is the problem not the solution...  oddly as it sounds.. the mega squads, while organized and tight... were the minoritiy... only a fraction of the player base wanted to play that way.

The result?   they had no opposition that mattered and they simply ruined the gameplay.. they rolled over fields that no one cared to bother to defend against them or be vulched at..

The ack is useless against late war planes so...all the newbies and griefers and hordes flew em....  you could runway dive with impunity.. that was slum behavior.... never learning to fight... these same people... when forced to defend themselves resorted to the HO... slum behavior...  Never haveing a chance at a kill.... any lone red was swarmed by at least 6-10 green all firing over each others shoulders and shooting the plane even after there were no wings on it to steal it from their other skilless and hungry for a kill teamates... slum behavior.

It is individualism that was threatened... join the whorde or die or don't have fun.   If we catch you sneaking off and having fun we will bomb your FH... now... those who bragged about that are crying like babies with "tremling fingers" and threatening to quit?  

I have even seen one guy say that he can no longer kill La7's and spit 16's with his hurri one?   LOL   let's all be honest here.... how many of you guys reading this seen hurri ones in the old MA?

How can HT develop new planes if all you will fly is the runway diving late war monster cause it is the only viable plane?

Look at the EW.... it is full of planes that no one ever used and the guys are having a blast flying em... as more are added.. it will be even more fun.

There will be more variety in the EW of actual planes seen than there ever was in the old MA...allmost is now.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: Changes
Post by: kudzu on September 16, 2006, 10:01:31 AM
It's about what you perceive as future market and (potential) growth is it?So what about the people that brought you to this stage? Remember us? An old politician once said "I'm staying with the one that brought me to the dance" in referrerance to who elected them and a party change..." Now, if what you perceive as "best for the game" marginalizes the "core" of your clientele...how does that improve anything? and the effects word of mouth concerning the changes AHII is going through is impacting those droves you expect to show up.

Change is inevitiable...but radical change often brings about such turmoil and dissatisfaction...such are humans and cattle as we have been referred to. I don't know whether to applaude or be insulted at the "herding" comment, but since you are appearing to approach this scientifically...so shall I.

In theory, what you are attempting mighyt, in the long run, be good for the game. But it wouldn't have hurt to give us a heads up and "break it to us slowly" as the man said. Cognitive dissonance aside...the game doesn't support the relatively few members you currently have (remeber the dance?) and why not scale back your plans for a phase-in? I abhor the hordes as much as anyone and applaude the ghetto comment as well, but the extreme situation of finding 15 people in an arena isn't acceptable either.

Many of us spend quite a few hours on the game as you know...and this kind of backlash just seems logicial--surely it was discussed.

Please consider scaling back your grandiose plans to levels that current members can live with and phase in the changes.

What it really boils down to is the money it cost you to ramp up for this change and you wanted to minimize that, that makes good business sense. But like I said, if it marginalizes your core--how logical is that?

Just my 3 cents marked up for inflation and the time it took to try and be objective about something that deeply supercedes into the subjective. I LOVE THIS GAME AND YOU WENT AND BROKE IT. There...I fell better. I suppose I will move along to the feeder yard and wait for the guy with the baseball bat. Oh wait..he's already here.

Please reconsider these changes--scale back to half and phase in this tremendous growth when the rest of the world catches on to the BEST flight sim game ever. Anything else defies logic. A dialogue with your customers wouldn't have hurt you--nor would waiting and doing it on a gradual basis. Please consider it.

Respectfully Numb,

Kudzu31

CO 308th FG/31st Bomber Barons





cattle
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Laurie on September 16, 2006, 10:57:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
Sorry, but for me there is currently too much space.
I was playin on & off the whole day. Was desperatly looking for any kind of bigger battles we used to have.

But thats hard to find when there are no more 150 but only about 40 or much even less people in an arena. Only now, at 11pm CET (time zone I am living) EA is getting about 150 players.

While I see many ways lots of other minor shortcomings could & will be corrected in near future, this is a real issue to me.

Change itself may be necessary, and i can surely adapt and make compromises. Heck, I dont like that "historical" planeset at all, but I could live with it for sure.

But the fights I did enjoy so much are not there anymore. Only small scale dogfights or even constant milkruns.

And I simply cant see how that can be fixed without getting rid of the split arenas concept , because I am sure the will be no sudden rise in player numbers at non-us times.

As I stated before: I guess I am simply out of luck here.


you hit the nail on the head buddy, this stinks now, i just fly around bored to death. sadly this is starting to cause a dvision between players and squads. high tech please get sumthing sorted to suit a majority please!,i live in england so the numbers in arenas suck. back to the tried and tested i say.

laurei--hulse2
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: airspro on September 16, 2006, 11:00:26 AM
I waited a few days to give it a chance . Seems better now . How's that ?

I can fly in Late War1 now with like minded people . Thanks for fixing that part :) Seems alot of new players already , that's good for u and for us players .
 

I like the .f and .p works good so far .
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Eagler on September 16, 2006, 11:03:07 AM
AH has never been better
then again 500 in a room with half of them in la7s and spit16s with 3/4's of them spraying and praying was never my idea of fun
thanks again for the changes HT!!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 16, 2006, 11:08:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
"
Look at the EW.... it is full of planes that no one ever used and the guys are having a blast flying em... as more are added.. it will be even more fun.

There will be more variety in the EW of actual planes seen than there ever was in the old MA...allmost is now.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


Ah, but as you point out in all that I snipped.... we had one extreme before... we are close to the opposite extreme now.  The initial change this week didn't even come close to being in the middle.  

Now last night... had there been one LW with a higher cap... the larger number of flyers would have been in there.  EW wasn't full, LW 1 was with spillage into LW2.

So raise the limit on LW1... apparently we can leave EW where it is as it wasn't full.  Both ends of the discussion will have the game experience they are comfortable with and we move forward.  That is of course if you are interested in a middle ground that appeals to all types of flyers.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 16, 2006, 11:47:28 AM
4510... yep... soon HTC will treat us all like numbers if this keeps up...


I don't get your point?   There were times when EW was full and the I couldn't get on... we just spilled over to the mid war.  

The late war is now simply the old MA..  it is sometimes full.. mostly not.. if you take the mid and early war you see that they often outnumber the old MA style...  even if they didn't tho...

It should be clear that many, if not most... were not content to simply play in the old MA environment with early and mid war planes.   They didn't enjoy flying aginst the la las and spit 16's and such.

The early war planes are being used and people are having fun.   When more early war planes are developed....  even more people will have a reason to try em out... the way things were....

What was the point of developing new planes that would pretty much sit on the shelf and not be used?  even by people who loved those planes.

There seems to have been at least half the community that was not thrilled with the old MA and is having fun with the new arenas...  you should be glad that now you can play with like minded virtual pilots... I know I am.

One thing for sure..... instead of 90% of my deaths coming from taking off or landing vultches in the old MA....   90% of my deaths now come from real fights in the EW....  Lots of people are enjoying that aspect... the slum factor in that regard is only in the late war arena now.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 16, 2006, 12:03:44 PM
I keep seeing the idea that the MA was perfect as it was being the sole reason to ditch the new setup. That's fine, that's your opinion. However, many of us think it was broken, and I personally feel it was broken by the sheer numbers of people playing. That's my opinion, and that's fine too.
But when the only guys who actually can see the numbers, the subscriptions cancelled and created, the email and phone calls... when those guys say it needs fixed, and needs fixed now if they are to be able to keep things going... why does no one accept that as being an honest statement?

Are you really that narrow minded to think that HTC did this just to suit a few of us? Can you really form an opinion without actually looking around? Can anyone really say the MA was the best thing ever, when it was all there was?

Seriously, calm down and give it a bit. If you can't calm down, won't try to adapt, won't even try the game out, then what exactly are you doing here? Whining on the bbs didn't change the game, and whining even more isn't going to change it back.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Guppy35 on September 16, 2006, 12:18:14 PM
I was thinking about it a bit last night after I logged off having visited all three.

It struck me that for the first time in my AH flying I was up in an F4F Wildcat in the EW.

Now I'm pretty much a dedicated 38G driver, but in EW that seems a bit much.  There was a carrier off a badguy airbase so I joined in in a Wildcat and had fun,

Even more of a surprise was that I found myself in an SBD, another bird I'd never flown in AH.  Again it was the idea that I had some potential survivability in it, and there weren't going to be hordes of LAs and 16s jumping me.

I think that's one of the keys here too.  You have this large planeset, that contains so many planes that never or rarely get used in the old MA environment due to the lack of survivability against the late war stuff.  No one has any incentive to learn them and never finds out how fun they can be  to fly.

The EW and MW arenas give those birds more survivability and encourages the chance for folks to use them too.

And as I mentioned previously.  My trip to the LW arena last night showed exactly the same things as the old MA, hordes, missions up! and latewar big cannon fast movers.

So it's all here.  And as Pyro mentioned, they'll adjust the cap accordingly as things settle in so what's the problem? :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Guppy35 on September 16, 2006, 12:21:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
what the hell is wrong with team work these days?


I don't recall saying there was anything wrong with it.  My point is, if that's the AH you want, it's still there.  If hording a base is your bit, you can still do it.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Guppy35 on September 16, 2006, 12:26:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Laurie
you hit the nail on the head buddy, this stinks now, i just fly around bored to death. sadly this is starting to cause a dvision between players and squads. high tech please get sumthing sorted to suit a majority please!,i live in england so the numbers in arenas suck. back to the tried and tested i say.

laurei--hulse2


So what's to stop the crowd at that particular time from all congregating in the LW arena that's just like the old MA?, theold tried and tested as you put it?  If the numbers are low at that time fo you anyway, no arena should keep you locked out.

So it would actually be better for the Euro crowd when the numbers are lower that they would be on a smaller map with less areas to get lost.  There should actually be more fights.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Bruno on September 16, 2006, 12:43:39 PM
Quote
Even more of a surprise was that I found myself in an SBD,


Well the SBD-5 is a bit of a stretch for 'early war'. I guess you could pretend it's an SBD-3 that had its .30cals in the tail removed and replaced with .50s and only run at mil power max. :)

However in the AvA arena (back when it was still the CT) they used to stick the SBD in for Allies on the BoB set-ups and with its forward .50s, rear .50s and dive speed in was problematic even for the 109E-4. In early PAC stuff (vesres A6M2s) it's dive speed and its rear firing .50s made even more a threat then the F4Fs.

In the Midway Scenario a while back we saw SBD bouncing whole flights of A6M2s and killing most of them. Since the EWA has a few mixed in mid-war AC it may not be a big deal but the SBD-5 entered service in mid '43. March '41 for the SBD-3

AH needs and an SBC and SBD-3... :p
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 16, 2006, 12:56:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2


There seems to have been at least half the community that was not thrilled with the old MA and is having fun with the new arenas...  you should be glad that now you can play with like minded virtual pilots... I know I am.

One thing for sure..... instead of 90% of my deaths coming from taking off or landing vultches in the old MA....   90% of my deaths now come from real fights in the EW....  Lots of people are enjoying that aspect... the slum factor in that regard is only in the late war arena now.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


If we stay status quo with the limits on the Arenas lifted to 600 or so I have no beef at all.  

I am all for options and CHOICE...

I do not support the "my way is a better way of flying" school of thought.  Regardless if I dislike how someone flys.  

Also, I don't find the EW any different than say the LW... save the vultching aspect.  Seems to me the last time I saw you in the EW... I was in a low fight... out numbered... and you in an F4F and another Spit jumped me.
I fail to see the difference between that and the LW... except perhaps the type of airplane.  I can't say I saw a lot of 1v1... I saw two hordes crashing into each other with people piling on from an alt advantage.  That to me is hardly ACM and pilot skill.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 16, 2006, 12:58:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
So what's to stop the crowd at that particular time from all congregating in the LW arena that's just like the old MA?, theold tried and tested as you put it?  If the numbers are low at that time fo you anyway, no arena should keep you locked out.

So it would actually be better for the Euro crowd when the numbers are lower that they would be on a smaller map with less areas to get lost.  There should actually be more fights.


Can you say an arena cap of 250?

Other than that.. nothing...and I just left the LW...which 2x the number of flyers in it than any other arena....
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Guppy35 on September 16, 2006, 01:01:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Can you say an arena cap of 250?

Other than that.. nothing...and I just left the LW...which 2x the number of flyers in it than any other arena....


Just stopped in to the arenas to see if any squadies were flying.  None of the arenas were full and EW was not far behind LW in numbers with MW coming in third.  But LW was not twice of EW by any means.

My response though was to a Euro flyer who wouldn't be seeing a locked out arena at his flying times anyway.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 16, 2006, 01:05:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510

I am all for options and CHOICE...



You mean 3 arenas is not enough of a choice for you?


ack-ack
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Guppy35 on September 16, 2006, 01:52:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Can you say an arena cap of 250?

Other than that.. nothing...and I just left the LW...which 2x the number of flyers in it than any other arena....


Soup,

Why did you fly FR back in the AW days, in particular in the AOL days.  I remember seeing you in there all the time when there were 20-30 tops on a good day while the RR arena was full.

I rememeber my first squad splitting over the choice of RR v FR.  Some of us didn't want to leave the friendly and known confines of RR Euro for the FR arena.  That reminds me of this now.  Folks were comfortable in what they knew of the old MA cause that's all they knew, just like all we knew was the RR arenas.

I think if you went back through the NGs and posting back then, you'd see that the same de-evolution of the game was going on in the RR arenas as AW grew on AOL when it went free.  And the same discussion was going on about it too.  Land grab, hording, non-stop vulching etc had replaced what had been more of an air combat game.

I'm betting, that you left that part of the game for FR because you wanted something besides the status quo or worse as it had become.  A lot of us wanted something more then too and moved to FR, somewhat grudgingly, but finally figuring out that it was better despite our earlier misgivings about leaving what we were used to.

I believe that folks will find the same now as well despite the initial resistance.
Title: Idea for yet another arena
Post by: ozrocker on September 16, 2006, 01:54:31 PM
Yo HT, or Pyro, How about adding a "GV only" arena?
                                                Oz
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Chalenge on September 16, 2006, 02:06:32 PM
If you created a Spit only arena maybe the guys holding our ENY so high would disappear and my squad could have fun again. We are at this moment limited to a handful of planes. ENY wont cause people to change countries to even things out because they dont understand what ENY even is. Later today well be stuck with goons and m3s again and oh what fun that will be!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Citabria on September 16, 2006, 02:31:30 PM
Early War Arena is my favorite
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 16, 2006, 02:33:36 PM
4500 you don't really make any sense to me...  you say that all you want is 1 v1?  And... that you liked the old MA?   that is silly.  there were no 1 v 1

You say that the EW isn't 1 v 1 (of course not) so you don't like it because it is a bunch of planes all fighting each other?  

you got jumped by my f4f and a spit and couldn't fight or get away (what were you in a jeep?)???  that is so much worse than the Old MA?  the old MA you were lucky if you didn't have 6 planes diving on you while you took off or landed.

most of the time I have seen there was room in the LW for more people.. why not just go there.

You have told us what you don't like..   lots of planes fighting each other...

How bout you tell us what you liked about the old MA?  and... why you can't still do it?

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 16, 2006, 02:35:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2


One thing for sure..... instead of 90% of my deaths coming from taking off or landing vultches in the old MA....   90% of my deaths now come from real fights in the EW....  Lots of people are enjoying that aspect... the slum factor in that regard is only in the late war arena now.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


I am not buying into the EW is more popular than LW.  LW seems to be always full at peak hours and EW seems to always have room.  Wonder if your biased? Oh nevermind, just saw that 90% vulch rate comment. Jeez, either your a really horrible pilot or an even worse exaggerator/liar...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 16, 2006, 02:38:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
I see it like this...
The base capture methods have evolved steadilly over the last ten years. There have been numerous points where it became too easy and it was made a little harder via game design and mechanics. There was a time when 2 -3 guys could take a field in about 60 seconds! The last major things done in AH to make it harder was the limiting of porkage and the creation of cities with a maproom. This sorta had things at a good middle ground. Five players could still capture a field in under five minutes. Seen it done dozens of times, even participated in a few. But if defenders upped against the five attackers (and had any skills and/or determination) they could prevent the capture. So folks started attacking with 10 guys, then 20 then 30. Even a 30-man attack can be easilly thwarted but it takes a larger number of skilled and/or determined pile-its to stop them. Large numbers of skilled and determined pile-its has been becomming rare in any single location over the last year or two. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it doesn't happen as much as it used to.

So when one large group of guys who are willing to fight to take a base meets another large group who are willing to fight to defend it you have a...gasp...FIGHT on your hands. Sometimes they turned into large and long lived furballs in between the two bases that could last for hours, with some ebb and tide as the fight moved back and forth. Now, I'm sure many of the folks b1tching about this change would say that is not fun, and it is an ineffective way to take a base. I'm sure many of them would do one of two things:
1.) Take up a group of 12-21 fluffs from another base, come in at 15K or higher and go pulverise the FHs, thus killing the furball and all the fun so many of those guys were having.
2.) Look on the strategery map and find another base that had little or no bardar and go attack it instead, thus avoiding the fight.

What was wrong with the game is too complicated to boil down concisely into a sound bite for you but it had mainly to do with maps and squads that were too large for the existing strat mechanics to deal with. The game mechanics therefore were literally encouraging folks to avoid a fight. I see that as a big problem in any combat sim of any genre. I mean if you only want to blow stuff up, you can play offline, or pick up a boxed sim and do co-op missions with vox to your heart's content. So, in a nutshell...the MMOL combat sim was intended to allow you to FIGHT other human opponents. The evloution of AH-MA, and the influx of new players, and the huge populations in the MA were all consipiring to make these fights less and less common.

Also I should add...HTC has made it clear that they too recognized the game was in need of a fix, so this is not the opinion only of oldtimers and the BKs.
Well..im so glad you and HTC are in the same corner. But it is "OPINION" oriented. And from the post on both threads and the text in ALL of the new arenas, i see that your opinion is in the minority. You may or may not agree with this fact...but any reasonable person can see that the majority was enjoying the game the way it was.
So it is their opinion that it wasnt broke. Lucky for you, you agree with the entity that controls change in this matter. Having said all that. I will say that I personally have never claimed that "Period" arenas was a problem...my complaint is player CAP preventing squads that conduct Ops 2 or 3 nights a week would be separated. Whether HTC thinks this is "Healthy" for me or not is of none effect. I will decide what is "Healthy" for my relationships...on and offline. So you see my dear eddy...AH has done so much more "Community wise" by pulling players together on a more personal basis than any other game out there. This was achieved by adding a recognized Squad Roster database...Adding a mission planner... Squad radio, VOX ect. So for many it IS..."Just a game" But for many more I think, its so much more than that. No worries though...this is going exactly where "I" said it would when my squad mate called me in a panic the first day this stupidity started. LW will be the dominant arena (Last night it was to capacity and opened the backup LW)... the plane set WILL be full for all intents and purposes (When LW1 and LW2 were combined LW1 & LW2 plane sets were combined)...and the players CAPS will be adjusted so Squads will be able to conduct ops "Together" the way it was intended. One a final thought. I fully understand the desire that folks like you have for a dreamland of "Fair fights". HT's decision of who he will cater to will decide who leaves and who stay's, I am certain that he knows this. So its simply a matter of which direction HT wants to see this game go. Massive crazynessor orderly Dog fighting. One is fun for some...the other is fun for others. War is about numbershas always been, and will always be... History tells us that. So until AH becomes a game of uncapturable bases, numbers will always Pick, BnZ, HitnRun and pound you to the dirt.
PS. follow the Threads on this issue, examine the trend of changes...and you will see which group of subscribers must be buttering the bread. This is my opinion. Fortunantly..its being backed up by the action's of HTC..not hot air. All in all im sure they will find the middle ground in there somewhere. If they dont...we all have options. Now to the part of all this that is most comical to me. HTC had to know the rift that this would cause. Yet they had the balls to do anyway. Im not sure if i should be Pissed...or amazed.
:rofl :rofl  Now that funny right there...I dont care who ya R
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: BTW on September 16, 2006, 02:39:15 PM
It reminds me of a doctor telling me "this won't hurt a bit"

It reminds me of the insurance agent telling me "This isn't a rate increase."

It reminds me of a politician telling me "Its not ethical to keep all promises."

"Two main arenas may seem like an oxymoron, but it isn't."

Er I think it is. But I'm sure it won't hurt a bit:aok

Seriously, I hope it isn't over management. I've seen web sites and games die because of over management. "This goes here, that goes there - get this out of here and put it over there! What - we only got THREE theres! We need more! Make 40 topics! Make 20 arenas! More is better!" Pretty soon people say ^&*$% it - cya.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: BaldEagl on September 16, 2006, 02:51:58 PM
I just want to offer my opinion for what it's worth after a couple of days of this.

1.  I think you should have limited it to early-mid war and mid-late war arenas.  So far the mid-war arena seems sparsly populated plus, once this change was accepted adding a mid-war arena later would be easier.

2.  Please bring back the large arenas soon.  I've always thought as I logged on; "Damn, we're in one of those stupid small arenas".  Imagine how I feel now knowing that's all there is.

3.  I'm looking forward to possibly seeing WW1 and Korea again (ala Air Warriors).  It's been a long time.

4.  What ever happened to the A-26?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 16, 2006, 02:53:48 PM
mugs and raider... first off.. I never said that any arena would be more popular than any other.... I think that new planes will be added and they will be early war and that will make for some influx.

even so.. the early and mid war arenas are easily as many people as the late..  even if they were only a third... that means that at least 1/3 to more than half either was fed up with the old ma and behavior or...  just wants to fly early planes without 190d's B &Zing em..   it was boring and frustrating to most of us who flew the slower planes.

The fixes that HT included were ones that everyone asked for not just the newbie former MA lovers and 190d, lala and 51 guys.  They were good changes and I am glad that it helped you round up all your soul mates so that you wouldn't get all lonely and such..

They were changes everyone wanted and they were needed.

and... please..  break up your posts with some paragraphs.. I probly missed half what you said.

oh... and someone wondered about the runway kills... like they never seen runway divers?  I fly an FM2 mostly and.. in the old MA.. the only fights mostly included some sort of a capped field... no real fights ever broke out unless by accident and when they did... the runway divers were allways there in short order to get in some risk free vultches... caurse... they were just flying "realisticaly" I suppose.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 16, 2006, 02:55:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Well considering half of this BBS if full of whines from players crying how FUBARed the game play was in the MA, maybe HiTech was responding to community whines...err I mean crying..errr demands to do something.  

I guess some just can't live without their La7s and the security blanket of the hord.


ack-ack
Well. actually the whines of the past were from the "Pure fighter" guys...now that the otherside of the community are being effected..we see many many guys are responding that rarely have posted before.
In light of that i think we can all see who the constant cry babies of the HTC BBS are. Opinions of the few... ;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 16, 2006, 03:02:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
mugs and raider... first off.. I never said that any arena would be more popular than any other.... I think that new planes will be added and they will be early war and that will make for some influx.

even so.. the early and mid war arenas are easily as many people as the late..  even if they were only a third... that means that at least 1/3 to more than half either was fed up with the old ma and behavior or...  just wants to fly early planes without 190d's B &Zing em..   it was boring and frustrating to most of us who flew the slower planes.

The fixes that HT included were ones that everyone asked for not just the newbie former MA lovers and 190d, lala and 51 guys.  They were good changes and I am glad that it helped you round up all your soul mates so that you wouldn't get all lonely and such..

They were changes everyone wanted and they were needed.

and... please..  break up your posts with some paragraphs.. I probly missed half what you said.

oh... and someone wondered about the runway kills... like they never seen runway divers?  I fly an FM2 mostly and.. in the old MA.. the only fights mostly included some sort of a capped field... no real fights ever broke out unless by accident and when they did... the runway divers were allways there in short order to get in some risk free vultches... caurse... they were just flying "realisticaly" I suppose.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

If I were being graded on grammar and writing skills, i would give a chit. But I am not. So I don't
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 16, 2006, 03:07:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2


oh... and someone wondered about the runway kills... like they never seen runway divers?  I fly an FM2 mostly and.. in the old MA.. the only fights mostly included some sort of a capped field... no real fights ever broke out unless by accident and when they did... the runway divers were allways there in short order to get in some risk free vultches... caurse... they were just flying "realisticaly" I suppose.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's



Isn't your K/D like 4:1? Not exactly the stats I would expect from someone who gets vulched all the time. Perhaps you are exaggerating or lying to reinforce your position on the EW arena???? Hmmm? me thinks so...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 16, 2006, 03:14:54 PM
My last post. all:)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 16, 2006, 03:31:41 PM
Even more conspiracy and "HT's just trying to piss us off" posts. This is phenomenal.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Guppy35 on September 16, 2006, 03:38:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Well. actually the whines of the past were from the "Pure fighter" guys...now that the otherside of the community are being effected..we see many many guys are responding that rarely have posted before.
In light of that i think we can all see who the constant cry babies of the HTC BBS are. Opinions of the few... ;)


How is the 'other side' affected?  LW is still the same as the MA was.  So it's not 500 people.  There is nothing stopping you from doing exactly what you like to do.

In fact, there is nothing in the other arenas from stopping you doing it as well other then the late war high speed cannon beasts aren't there.

So again, what was lost?  The potential for 500 people in an arena.  That's it.  And last I saw Pyro said they'd adjust the arena caps as needed once things settled.

So what was lost?

Now there is more choice and a better opportunity for all the planes to get used.  What is wrong with that?

And don't tell me that you could do that in the old MA.  Taking a Spit 1 up against 16s, N1Ks and LA7s is NOT the same as taking it up against 109Es, Zekes etc.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: USRanger on September 16, 2006, 03:42:52 PM
I think the addition of a GV arena is a good one, since we no longer have our beloved tanktown map(s).  And I KNOW TT was popular!  I also think the GV arena maps would/could be some of the neatest maps we'd have.  Current options for GVers, since the change, to have a good big ol' brawl is very limited.  It would also get us outta the pure-flyboys' hairs!
:D
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: iculus on September 16, 2006, 03:48:01 PM
I was surprised to log on and see this format. I'm absolutely loving it. I was considering killing my subscription to AH because I never flew in the MA... just the 8-player. The old MA was too plain-jane... same ol' same ol' every time.

I've never had this much fun with AH since the beta days. I can't wait to explore the new arrangement.

Thanks!!
-IC
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: skernsk on September 16, 2006, 04:02:22 PM
I love the new arenas, leave them alone, don't go back to the old MA style.

Now get cracking on some new 'small' terrains for 250 players max and get some decent 'squad comms' where a player can log in and see where his squaddies are before selecting an arena.

Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Sloehand on September 16, 2006, 04:47:41 PM
Nothing wrong with the basic concept of the new arenas, and its great HiTech fixed some things today.
However, my squad is find two significant problems still.  First, don't know for sure, but buildings, hangars and strat doesn't seem to stay down as long as it used to.  Has it been changed? And if so, to what?
Biggest problem is though, with smaller limits and 3 arenas the numbers get out of wack quickly, especially as the ENY limits are still set for larger limit arenas.  In the Late War, which is the only place to take up a Niki among others, the ENY, though it does fluctuate, has been too consistantly at 20 to 26.  This with the high side having 70 and the low side having maybe45-50.  Lots of players play this game for a small set of planes, and if you can't get them in the Late War Arena you're pretty much done playing.
In other words, the ENY is condition is too sensitive now, and with the smaller arenas, may not be as important a leveling factor as it was.  Maybe, it should be revised a bit.
I see no point in playing in the Late Arena, if all you can do is fight the better planes with older planes.  And as many people have no interest in flying the older planes, it's sit and wait for the ENY to come down or do nothing.  It's just the same problem as before, just happens more often on a smaller scale.  It's a game killer for many people.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Have on September 16, 2006, 04:59:20 PM
Flew today first time in the new early war arena and really like it! Great planes and great fights, yay! This was an excellent change and a definite improvement over the earlier MA :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: KAntti on September 16, 2006, 05:08:07 PM
I say this: screuw the old MA, the EWA RULEZ!!! :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Sloehand on September 16, 2006, 05:08:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
How is the 'other side' affected?  LW is still the same as the MA was.  So it's not 500 people.  There is nothing stopping you from doing exactly what you like to do.

In fact, there is nothing in the other arenas from stopping you doing it as well other then the late war high speed cannon beasts aren't there.

So again, what was lost?  The potential for 500 people in an arena.  That's it.  And last I saw Pyro said they'd adjust the arena caps as needed once things settled.

So what was lost?

Now there is more choice and a better opportunity for all the planes to get used.  What is wrong with that?

And don't tell me that you could do that in the old MA.  Taking a Spit 1 up against 16s, N1Ks and LA7s is NOT the same as taking it up against 109Es, Zekes etc.


Note my earlier post.  The ENY restritions are more pronounced now, with the smaller limits.  This means many planes are not available for quite a large peroid of the day.  Many of those are planes you can ony fly in the Late Arena so you can't go somewhere else to satisfy your desire to fly a certain plane or mission.  Fact is, the ENY fluctuates so much at times you seem to spend more time in the hangar trying to ifind out what you can take up.  You get up in a high ENY plane, tell everyone anything under 20 is not available, and someone says it just dropped to 6, and your preferred ride is now availble again.  That is, until you finish your early model mission, then ENY is back up to 26, and you're toast again.  All day long to day that's been happening.
So, the LW is NOT quite the same asl the old MA.  It's worse, but could be better if a few things were fixed.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: zorstorer on September 16, 2006, 05:10:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
...And don't tell me that you could do that in the old MA.  Taking a Spit 1 up against 16s, N1Ks and LA7s is NOT the same as taking it up against 109Es, Zekes etc...


You are right, it was better ;)
Title: Re: My Lamentation
Post by: KAntti on September 16, 2006, 05:41:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by RipT327
Majority of the Players were in the Early arena first day..I believe this was coincidental due to it was put in the MA slot on the login Screen.. And face it some of us  just really aren't that bright! :(  Today since the New addition of old planes in Late War arena it was the  Majority.  :)

    With the initial change I was ready to Play my membership out and let it go, untill today when I seen the Late war is Identical to The MA..Call it whatever you will Late war, MA, Dogpile whatever..Thanks HTC for listening to your Customers..If the old WWII buffs (The guys who know every plane and year yada yada yada) Let them have their Arena i'm Sure it will attract old and new.. :) I still dont see the Need for 2 Late War arenas....but....
It seems to be a Helluva Place to Milkrun and Pad your RANK!!!  I could probably ramble on and Lament about more, except its getting late and there are not Enough in any one Arena to have fun with so I'll just go to bed....Usually I would be flying, But late nights SUCK now! Rooks and the 327th.........


Please do not pick on the EWA just because you like to fly the Lgay7's. There is a reason why EWA shares popularity with the LWA and that is: It's fun and theres skill involved! You can actually win a fight if you have the skill: there will be no Lgay-7's or peeee 51's or tiffies haunting you after you've slaughtered 4 gang banging poor flyin 109F's with a C202, and that is the point of the arena.  Some want opposite from this, but then late war riders usually do not care for cut down performance as the balanced fight will need and most definately brings out skill as well.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Panzzer on September 16, 2006, 05:53:20 PM
KAntti, Have....

You're my squadmates, how come you like the Early War Arena that much better than the setups that were being offered in the AvA?

Cheers, I hope you'll continue to be my squadmates despite the arena we'll fly in. :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: zorstorer on September 16, 2006, 05:56:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Panzzer
KAntti, Have....

You're my squadmates, how come you like the Early War Arena that much better than the setups that were being offered in the AvA?

Cheers, I hope you'll continue to be my squadmates despite the arena we'll fly in. :)


Are the flying Finns breaking up?? :(
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 16, 2006, 06:06:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You mean 3 arenas is not enough of a choice for you?


ack-ack


With the full plane set in LW... I have no complaints....
We do need a higher cap... when the crowds showup 250 is still too low.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: thndregg on September 16, 2006, 06:08:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by USRanger
I think the addition of a GV arena is a good one, since we no longer have our beloved tanktown map(s).  And I KNOW TT was popular!  I also think the GV arena maps would/could be some of the neatest maps we'd have.  Current options for GVers, since the change, to have a good big ol' brawl is very limited.  It would also get us outta the pure-flyboys' hairs!
:D


I'm not a tanker, I absolutely suck at it, but an exlusive GV arena would be great. Tanks vs. tanks, no dive-bombers.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 16, 2006, 06:11:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Soup,

Why did you fly FR back in the AW days, in particular in the AOL days.  I remember seeing you in there all the time when there were 20-30 tops on a good day while the RR arena was full.

 


I always flew FR... from day one.... before AOL.

I am not sure what needs to be done to fix a "problem" that is due to the fundamental design of the game.

Some of the same things that are cited for this change were cited for the ENY decision.  

But as long as arena resets are the goal...  landgrab, vultching, etc. will continue.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 16, 2006, 06:17:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
4500 you don't really make any sense to me...  you say that all you want is 1 v1?  And... that you liked the old MA?   that is silly.  there were no 1 v 1

You say that the EW isn't 1 v 1 (of course not) so you don't like it because it is a bunch of planes all fighting each other?  

you got jumped by my f4f and a spit and couldn't fight or get away (what were you in a jeep?)???  that is so much worse than the Old MA?  the old MA you were lucky if you didn't have 6 planes diving on you while you took off or landed.

most of the time I have seen there was room in the LW for more people.. why not just go there.

You have told us what you don't like..   lots of planes fighting each other...

How bout you tell us what you liked about the old MA?  and... why you can't still do it?

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


Ah.. Lazs.. you are confusing me!

I don't have a problem with the EW, MW or LW.  As long as LW has the full plane set and ALL arenas have a high cap (600 or so).  Then let folks play where they like.

The point I was trying to make was... those folks in favor of the change and dismantling of a full plane set in LW point to better fights in EW.
The fights in EW look just the same to me except no one was hauling any eggs.  I saw as many HO's, folks jumping in on existing fights, etc.

Actually... EW reminded me of FT in the old MA.  ( I wonder why that is?)

So bottomline.. if they up the caps on the three arenas, full planeset in the LW... I've no beef.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 16, 2006, 06:34:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
How is the 'other side' affected?  LW is still the same as the MA was.  So it's not 500 people.  There is nothing stopping you from doing exactly what you like to do.

In fact, there is nothing in the other arenas from stopping you doing it as well other then the late war high speed cannon beasts aren't there.

So again, what was lost?  The potential for 500 people in an arena.  That's it.  And last I saw Pyro said they'd adjust the arena caps as needed once things settled.

So what was lost?

Now there is more choice and a better opportunity for all the planes to get used.  What is wrong with that?

And don't tell me that you could do that in the old MA.  Taking a Spit 1 up against 16s, N1Ks and LA7s is NOT the same as taking it up against 109Es, Zekes etc.

I have made it clear that I understand HTC will make the adjustments needed. So therefore the other side is only temporarily effected.

   Its obvious that we are already headed to a more populated MA. Last night proved my prediction that LW MA will be the old AH2 we once knew.

 Last night for example.LW1 was maxed..LW2 kicked in as backup. So i am confident that all will be happy after HTC raises the CAP in LW1 to around 400. But when we arrive at so said happiness, let's re-examine what has actually changed.

   All will see that the LW Arena will so much represent the old MA (plane set and population) that HTC created a whole lota watermelon for nothing.  This coulda been done so much more discretely that is it laughable.
And damn it! This IS my last post.
cheers all
:)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 16, 2006, 06:51:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
I have made it clear that I understand HTC will make the adjustments needed. So therefore the other side is only temporarily effected.

   Its obvious that we are already headed to a more populated MA. Last night proved my prediction that LW MA will be the old AH2 we once knew.

 Last night for example.LW1 was maxed..LW2 kicked in as backup. So i am confident that all will be happy after HTC raises the CAP in LW1 to around 400. But when we arrive at so said happiness, let's re-examine what has actually changed.

   All will see that the LW Arena will so much represent the old MA (plane set and population) that HTC created a whole lota watermelon for nothing.  This coulda been done so much more discretely that is it laughable.
And damn it! This IS my last post.
cheers all
:)


You're just creatures of habit. You have no idea which setup is better, or worse, because you only know one. HT could call the AvA the Main Arena, and you guys would flock to it. That doesn't mean it's better.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 16, 2006, 07:00:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
You're just creatures of habit. You have no idea which setup is better, or worse, because you only know one. HT could call the AvA the Main Arena, and you guys would flock to it. That doesn't mean it's better.


Pretty broad statement....

Speaking for myself I've played in every arena save the MidWar.  (too sparsely populated)  

I like the AvA when it has the rolling planeset ETO.  PTO planeset is boring to me.

EW is ok... but the "Elitist" attitude of some of the folks flying there is a bit over the top.  

But this isn't my first rodeo... if there is one thing I am sure of, I don't need others telling me what I should and shouldn't like.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: BansheCH on September 16, 2006, 07:03:23 PM
Pyro I think the changes are great except for one thing. Your setup is when one arena is caped a 2nd arena opens. This is a problem for our squad. We have 4 divisions with a total of over 70 members. Our problem is on squad nights we are haveing members that cant get in the arena we are in. That is disapointing to our squad members and we dont want to split them up into other arenas. There is a way to fix this I think. If you made it so that when numbers get high in one arena but the other main arenas or any arena numbers are low allow the cap to raise or lower itself to make up for memebers that want to be in that arena so they can get in. Then when that arena is at its max cap allowed or another arena needs the slots allow the 2nd arena to open. Then it would be a adjustable system. Do you see where im going with this? Is this possible to do and will it help or hurt things?
Title: Country imbalance
Post by: OrionV on September 16, 2006, 08:19:19 PM
Overall I like these changes, however, two big problems.  First is the squad thing, I know that being worked on. Second, imbalance of players in arena toward one or two countries.  It is a flaw, and, it will be abused.  We all look for an advantage.  My thought is change the way eny works.  Instead of limiting available aircraft, let them all fly.  Perk everything and when eny kicks in, then, the perk costs kick in.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 16, 2006, 08:27:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Pretty broad statement....

Speaking for myself I've played in every arena save the MidWar.  (too sparsely populated)  

I like the AvA when it has the rolling planeset ETO.  PTO planeset is boring to me.

EW is ok... but the "Elitist" attitude of some of the folks flying there is a bit over the top.  

But this isn't my first rodeo... if there is one thing I am sure of, I don't need others telling me what I should and shouldn't like.


 I wasn't addressing you specifically, and that was pretty clear. However, it's an accurate statement, as evidenced by the panicked shrieking and nailbiting before anyone had spent more than an hour with the new setup.

Now, if you'd care to point out my elitist attitude, and where I tell you what you should and should not like...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: AKWarp on September 16, 2006, 08:43:11 PM
You guys don't get it...my opinion is the only one that counts!!

BWAHA...seriously though, glad some folks like the new, boring setup.   As I said before, the furballers should be quite happy, no real base taking, buffing, or any of that going on to interupt your endless twirling about the sky.

To each there own I suppose, and that's ok.  HT is doing wha the thinks he has to.  It just so happens I don't like what he's doing, so I'm taking my leave.

Been fun (the second time around).  Maybe I'll crank up the account again  some day....

'til then, blue skies and fun for all....
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Anchor on September 16, 2006, 09:02:34 PM
I'm hanging on..but I agree with you completely. It is good for some...I just wish it was good for me (greedy ain't I).

I am doubly ticked about it if your bailing. I had a hell of a lot of fun flying with you.

Kilo16




Quote
Originally posted by AKWarp
You guys don't get it...my opinion is the only one that counts!!

BWAHA...seriously though, glad some folks like the new, boring setup.   As I said before, the furballers should be quite happy, no real base taking, buffing, or any of that going on to interupt your endless twirling about the sky.

To each there own I suppose, and that's ok.  HT is doing wha the thinks he has to.  It just so happens I don't like what he's doing, so I'm taking my leave.

Been fun (the second time around).  Maybe I'll crank up the account again  some day....

'til then, blue skies and fun for all....
Title: Re: Country imbalance
Post by: Chalenge on September 16, 2006, 09:50:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by OrionV
Overall I like these changes, however, two big problems.  First is the squad thing, I know that being worked on. Second, imbalance of players in arena toward one or two countries.  It is a flaw, and, it will be abused.  We all look for an advantage.  My thought is change the way eny works.  Instead of limiting available aircraft, let them all fly.  Perk everything and when eny kicks in, then, the perk costs kick in.


I like this idea but Id like to see the ENY take into consideraton rank distributions for each country overall. That way a country with thirty high ranking guys versus a country with three high rankers wont have a harsh ENY advantage AND advantage of ability. Fly one sortie with ten dweebs and watch them all die in seconds and youll know what Im trying to get at.
Title: Re: Re: Country imbalance
Post by: bj229r on September 16, 2006, 10:10:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chalenge
I like this idea but Id like to see the ENY take into consideraton rank distributions for each country overall. That way a country with thirty high ranking guys versus a country with three high rankers wont have a harsh ENY advantage AND advantage of ability. Fly one sortie with ten dweebs and watch them all die in seconds and youll know what Im trying to get at.


Some of the best fiter pilots in here have poor overall ranks because they don't care to fly anything ELSE
Title: Re: Re: Country imbalance
Post by: pluck on September 16, 2006, 10:31:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chalenge
I like this idea but Id like to see the ENY take into consideraton rank distributions for each country overall. That way a country with thirty high ranking guys versus a country with three high rankers wont have a harsh ENY advantage AND advantage of ability. Fly one sortie with ten dweebs and watch them all die in seconds and youll know what Im trying to get at.


assuming rank means anything.....i'd rather have some poorly ranked guys watching my six then most of the guys with good rank.  rank doesn't matter, numbers do though.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 16, 2006, 11:01:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
I wasn't addressing you specifically, and that was pretty clear. However, it's an accurate statement, as evidenced by the panicked shrieking and nailbiting before anyone had spent more than an hour with the new setup.

Now, if you'd care to point out my elitist attitude, and where I tell you what you should and should not like...


Seemed pretty clear to me who you were addressing.. since I don't hide the fact that I feel the LW MA should be like the OLD MA and your statement included plural terms.... I just lumped myself into the plural...

When the new setup first arrived it lacked the full plane setup in LW.  Still does.  CAP in place to force people to fly elsewhere.  I don't begrudge people saying whether they like that or not.

Elitist attitude.. not intended to you directly... I refered to elements in the EW.  If it hit close to home that would be for you to determine.
Title: Is Anyone There?????????
Post by: aerosaber on September 16, 2006, 11:08:55 PM
This is turning into a greek tragedy. ENY values are changing every thirty seconds. Sometimes you have no planes to fly, unless you want to be cannon fodder. What have you done to this game?????? And CVs forget it, the whole attack aquadron is sometimes unavailable.

I really love AH, and paid in advance. I have sighned up several family members, and referred others. Please fix this thing.

The multi arena thing is neat, but I don't think it was properly tested before dropping it on the PEOPLE WHO ARE PAYING FOR A SERVICE!!!!!!!!!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: soupcan on September 16, 2006, 11:17:25 PM
i have been playing in the MW and although the numbers have been
a bit low... i'm lovin it.

have had a chance to engage in some really fun 1v1 fights. you almost have to force me now to fly a buff lol.

one thing i found today (due to env restrictions) is that the ki61 is a pretty
cool ride. although i had tried the ki61 a few times in the old MA...just
couldn't seem to get any kills in it. now the ki61 is starting to rival the hurri2c
as my favorite ride.

please dont go back to a single arena.

i do think the cap should be raised on all the arenas to at least 400.

just my .02
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: soupcan on September 16, 2006, 11:25:37 PM
1 other point that i forgot to mention.....

part of the beauty of this is ..if you don't like the map, or the numbers, or
the type of gameplay going on, ect. ......

you can switch to another arena!:aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: DrDea on September 16, 2006, 11:35:05 PM
Seems to me the people that like the changes arent here talking about it.Its always the minority that clogs up the forums with their " I speak for my Squad and many others" that get so wound up.Give it time.try it out.Chill.It just might be the best thing that HT ever did.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MrDick on September 16, 2006, 11:39:47 PM
If "everyone" is happy with a small arena, why not up the pop cap on the LW arena?

Both parties could be happy this way.  One arena dedicated to the masses one arena dedicated to the few.

Let's run a expirement: EW pop cap at 250.  Lw pop cap at 600.  Scrub the MW it is always sub 100 flyers or at least add it to EW.  Shouldn't create any capacity issues since MA had 700 capacity before and was rarely above 600.

After two weeks determine which arena is utilized more.

All subscribers should have a voice.

And PS it really sucks that AKWarp is leaving :mad:

-MrD
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 17, 2006, 12:23:46 AM
So, MrDick, 4510... did you enjoy your time in the EWA?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MrDick on September 17, 2006, 12:56:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
So, MrDick, 4510... did you enjoy your time in the EWA?


Not really.  It was mainly Fighter vs. Fighter mostly spit5s or 109s.

No bomber flights to attack.

No tank battles to engage in.

No carrier ops

No squad coordinated game play.

No squad mates.

No life.

-- but I think this is all an artifact of low population.

The LW arena is usually full.  Second LW with 60 pilots is not what I am looking for.

I think the small maps need at least > 350 pilots to be meaningful.

Split the arenas sure, my complaint is with the artifically low pop caps in the arenas.

I also think most good pilots will be in EWA, which means pilots in LWA will never get any better.

Ironically... I *never* see any of the most vocal pro-arena split posters online.

-MrD
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: soupcan on September 17, 2006, 01:54:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MrDick


 Scrub the MW it is always sub 100 flyers or at least add it to EW.  


why not "scrub" rooks, knights, and bish and instead have
2 countries. name these new 2 countries something other than
chess pieces so no one has to feel "hey how come my chess piece
was eliminated".
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MrDick on September 17, 2006, 01:59:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by soupcan
why not "scrub" rooks, knights, and bish and instead have
2 countries. name these new 2 countries something other than
chess pieces so no one has to feel "hey how come my chess piece
was eliminated".


I think this is also a valid option.  Three countries usually turned into 2 vs 1 anyway.

-MrD
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MIShill on September 17, 2006, 02:06:33 AM
Let's eliminate Bish.....today!

;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

-MI-
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: TexInVa on September 17, 2006, 07:36:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MrDick
Ironically... I *never* see any of the most vocal pro-arena split posters online.

-MrD


I saw you yesterday.

As for being a "pro-arena split" poster, I think I should be classified more as a "stop panicking and freaking out, I don't think they're going to change it back, so make the best of it" poster.

It's good to see that almost all of the little fixes and tweaks that have been asked for have been implemented. There are still some minor things that need to be worked out. I was flying for my country when I found that I couldn't up a hurri because of the ENY. I went to a different country and flew for them until the numbers started leveling out. This took something under a half hour. So I tried to go back to my country of origin, and imagine my suprise when I found out that I had to wait another 249 minutes (that's 4 hours and 9 minutes) before I could switch back. That's not going to happen again. I'll stand outside the tower with my .45 and shoot at you as you fly by before I try that again, unless the time limit is dropped to an hour or so.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: TexMurphy on September 17, 2006, 07:44:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MrDick
I also think most good pilots will be in EWA, which means pilots in LWA will never get any better.


Ironic how well that models the war...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 17, 2006, 08:32:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
So what was lost?

I think I can answer that from the POV of the other side...

Two things were potentially lost here:
1.) During prime-time US some of the squads with 30-60 online at one time (shudder) cannot all get into the same arena at the same time due to the cap of 250.
2.) During European prime-time having three arenas disperses the population, making areans even less populated than it was before.

My opinion, in response to the first,  if one squad had 20-25% of the arena population that would be an issue. In response to the second, I think the players have the ability and choices necessary to congregate in one or two arenas to increase the numbers. But the smaller maps should help, if an arena only had 40 folks on a 512X512 map fights would be much harder to find. I have had hours of enjoyment from 50-75 players on a 256X26 map.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 17, 2006, 09:34:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
So, MrDick, 4510... did you enjoy your time in the EWA?


I flew about 40% of my time yesterday in the EWA yesterday and hated every minute of it.   (only kidding)

I don't think I've ever said the EWA needs to go away or that it isn't fun.  I just don't see what everyone is raving about.  The EWA is just an arena that allows a given plane set to "compete".  I don't see any difference in the tactics.  I saw all the negative things people complain about, whether it is ganging, HO, vultch, tanks on the runway, you name it.  Matter of fact the HO part is even more humorous in the EWA because most of that plane set SHOULD be able to maneuver well enough to gain a position of advantage.  Instead the HOICANES just go flailing by spraying.

The ENY limiter was still a pain and I logged because of it.

Numbers in the LW were consistently higher than the EWA all evening, tho the Rooks were at a disadvantage in the LW all day.

That's what I saw... what did you see?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 17, 2006, 09:36:22 AM
4510...  I don't know how you get that a bunch of people all saying that the EW is the best fights they have ever had and that they are having the most fun they have had in years to mean "elitist" attitude...   Perhaps being on the other end of your B & Z 190 was not as much fun in the old MA as you thought it was?

I think another thing that people may be missing is that the large maps were made because of the population density... too many people on for the small maps...  so... the small maps went away.

The big maps got stale... players tried to make maps and... except for Festers excellent map and one little section (FT) on another... they were a disaster... horrible.

Now...  we will get lots of maps...players can make small maps and are doing so as we speak... but..  You got to have a cap... maybe 250 players...

The guys who loved to cherry pick in lalas and 190d's and such say that the new LW is just like the old MA and is full... well... it is not allways full and it is not like the old MA at all... it is small maps... it is like the old MA before the whordes.   This change has even improved late war gameplay.

I bet if you put the big maps in the LW it would be the most boring arena ever with a 250 cap.... you guys were afraid to fite when it was 500...  with 250 no one would ever see another plane.

It is all good...  only the worst aspects have been removed and things can only get better from here.   People are enjoying flying planes they never even considered because it would have been suicide....  I would see maybe 1 other FM2 in a month and he was usually someone who chose it out of a mistake or because he thought it might be a good plane to take off from the carrier... he would fly  it once and say "the hell with this"  now... we see the pooch od an f4f ferchrisakes having a great time in the EW.

It is all good... more planes will be developed.  They will also get used.. What at concept!   useful early and mid war planes!   Before....  why would you bother with all the work to make an early war plane that no one ever used?

and raider...what about runway vultches and my K/D is mutualy exclusive..  it only means that once I got airborne... I did ok.... imagine my K/D if I had a high threshold for gaminess and boredom and only flew 190d's for instance...  now.... I don't have to fly em and I don't have to see em.... best of both worlds.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: baine1 on September 17, 2006, 09:39:12 AM
The LW arena is usually full.  Second LW with 60 pilots is not what I am looking for.

I think the small maps need at least > 350 pilots to be meaningful.

What he said.
My complaint with this setup, other than the way it appears to have been implemented without any thought given to the myriad headaches that could have been easily corrected before the thing was put in place, is that it's tough to find a good fight and that now there's a chance that the other 10 guys in my squad will have a hard time all logging in to the same place to fly.
I think the idea of, at least for the moment, breaking it down to two countries might help.
I've yet to spend any real time in the MW arena, the one I think would be the most enjoyable, because every time I log in to it, the numbers are very low. Divide those numbers by three, and that means lots of flying and little fighting. That forces me into the LW arena, bumping out other folk who might actually enjoy flying in there.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Oldman731 on September 17, 2006, 09:41:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by soupcan
why not "scrub" rooks, knights, and bish and instead have
2 countries. name these new 2 countries something other than
chess pieces so no one has to feel "hey how come my chess piece
was eliminated".

Good idea.  In combination with the smaller maps that should lie in our future, this would go a long way to focusing the fights.

I stopped into midwar again last night.  The plane set is very good, but the people were scattered all over the map, doing their own little things.  Often this can be solved with player interaction ("hey, let's meet at so-and-so"), but that was less successful, at least last night, than it is in AvA.  Smaller maps would help here, and so would two sides instead of three.

I would wait to implement that for awhile.  Adding such a big change to the new arena setup would probably put some people over the edge.

- oldman
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 17, 2006, 09:47:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert1
I think I can answer that from the POV of the other side...

Two things were potentially lost here:
1.) During prime-time US some of the squads with 30-60 online at one time (shudder) cannot all get into the same arena at the same time due to the cap of 250.
2.) During European prime-time having three arenas disperses the population, making areans even less populated than it was before.

My opinion, in response to the first,  if one squad had 20-25% of the arena population that would be an issue. In response to the second, I think the players have the ability and choices necessary to congregate in one or two arenas to increase the numbers. But the smaller maps should help, if an arena only had 40 folks on a 512X512 map fights would be much harder to find. I have had hours of enjoyment from 50-75 players on a 256X26 map.


Its interesting that AH has had to constantly evolve to deemphasis teamwork.  Don't you think so?

The ENY exists because of the negative reaction to the Rooks developing a very organized country.  Big squads weren't formed, rather multiple squads agreed to cooperate under a central command staff.  The presence of all these multiple squads skewed the numbers and voila, there were complaints and ENY came into existence.

So we had the first user uprising over game play restructure....

Then, some folks developed HUGE squads.  These squads don't necessarily skew the numbers in the arena so the ENY cannot deemphasis their impact.  However, with their organization or agreed upon cooperation, at the point of attack they have a very large numbers advantage.  So the complaints start yet again and we have the multiple arenas thrust upon us.

Now we have the second user uprising over game play restructure....

I know I am quite interested in seeing how things will evolve.  As long as the map reset is the reason for the season, I think we will just see another permutation of teamwork.  It just hasn't fleshed itself out yet.  Even last night in the EWA the Bishops started.  All the fighting was focused primarily around Western center of the map.  However, the Bish went up to the extreme north and for a long time was just a Bish horde vs several Rooks.  The only thing that slowed a Bish steamroller was the difficulty imposed by the plane/tank set in getting the job done.  

As far as choices to congregate.  If each night we see a second LW opening up, then we are doing it wrong.  The cap needs to be lifted on the LW.  The players are making a choice and we are artificially restricting it.  The other players that don't like the LW have their options now.  It is spiteful to keep the LW cap low.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 17, 2006, 10:11:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
4510...  I don't know how you get that a bunch of people all saying that the EW is the best fights they have ever had and that they are having the most fun they have had in years to mean "elitist" attitude...   Perhaps being on the other end of your B & Z 190 was not as much fun in the old MA as you thought it was?

I think another thing that people may be missing is that the large maps were made because of the population density... too many people on for the small maps...  so... the small maps went away.

The big maps got stale... players tried to make maps and... except for Festers excellent map and one little section (FT) on another... they were a disaster... horrible.

Now...  we will get lots of maps...players can make small maps and are doing so as we speak... but..  You got to have a cap... maybe 250 players...

The guys who loved to cherry pick in lalas and 190d's and such say that the new LW is just like the old MA and is full... well... it is not allways full and it is not like the old MA at all... it is small maps... it is like the old MA before the whordes.   This change has even improved late war gameplay.

I bet if you put the big maps in the LW it would be the most boring arena ever with a 250 cap.... you guys were afraid to fite when it was 500...  with 250 no one would ever see another plane.

It is all good...  only the worst aspects have been removed and things can only get better from here.   People are enjoying flying planes they never even considered because it would have been suicide....  I would see maybe 1 other FM2 in a month and he was usually someone who chose it out of a mistake or because he thought it might be a good plane to take off from the carrier... he would fly  it once and say "the hell with this"  now... we see the pooch od an f4f ferchrisakes having a great time in the EW.

It is all good... more planes will be developed.  They will also get used.. What at concept!   useful early and mid war planes!   Before....  why would you bother with all the work to make an early war plane that no one ever used?

and raider...what about runway vultches and my K/D is mutualy exclusive..  it only means that once I got airborne... I did ok.... imagine my K/D if I had a high threshold for gaminess and boredom and only flew 190d's for instance...  now.... I don't have to fly em and I don't have to see em.... best of both worlds.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


My dearest Laz,

I don't get my elitist opinon based upon people's appraisal of the EWA.  Actually I get it from some of the condescending or personal attack tactics used in forum posts.  No what I mean Vern? :huh

As far as your thinly veiled 190d comments.  It's a great airplane. :aok   And if you take the time to look at how it compares against the rest of the plane set on speed, climb, turn, acceleration, lethality, etc. you will see the plane turns like a bus, period.  That climb, acceleration and speed are its only assets and in the LW it isn't the best in ANY of those categories.  How would you suggest it be flown?  ( I can only imagine)

As for the BnZ with it.  You are welcome to check my kill stats, tho it will be a bit skewed now with my time in the EWA.  I don't know the exact percentage but the plane types that I had double digit kills of were all the BnZ type planes.  P51s, LA7s, and Spit MK XVIs.  You don't see a lot of Hurricanes, KIs, 109s, F6Fs etc.  So it isn't like I am jumping the poor slow guy going in circles.  Rather I am chasing the fast guys that fight the BnZ fight.  

Do you know what altitude the D9 will/can outrun an La7?  Do you know what alt the D9 can outclimb the La7 and Pony?  Do know when it loses that advantage?  Do you know such information about your own ride?  Or is the solution to just TURN... and if that doesn't work replane?

You are right, a large map with a cap of 250 would be boring.  BUT the cap of 250 is artificial.  As we can make a choice to have a small map, we can make a choice to have a higher cap.  The only difference is you prefer the smaller cap and I think player participation should dictate the cap.  Oh, and of course you are aligned with what HiTech wants to do and I am at odds with it.  I would suggest your position is less frustrating than mine.  MBaaaahhhhh

As for the F4F... they are the minority in the EWA.  Its Hurricanes, Zekes, and Spits, with a few 109s, fewer 38s (all flown high and BnZ) and then a 190 here or there.  I see more 109s than I do F4Fs.  Matter of fact, last night I saw more 38s.  But, don't think of my position as anti-EWA.  It isn't, tho I don't see the EWA as "all that".  I am anti CAP and the derision being aimed at folks that like the LWA.  How could I not like the EWA?  Except when I can't get one because of ENY the FW190A5 is a harvesting MACHINE in the EWA!

Finally, more airplanes added to the set.  Bring 'em on!  Maybe their development will entice people out of the LWA.  You know, develop the product before you force people to adopt the game style necessary to accomodate the new product?  Entice instead of dictate?
Title: Re: Re: Re: Country imbalance
Post by: 4510 on September 17, 2006, 10:28:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
Some of the best fiter pilots in here have poor overall ranks because they don't care to fly anything ELSE


Hey, maybe we are on to something here.....

Instead of just doing arenas so people are forced into flying a certain style of fight or year of plane... we could set it up so folks have to "fly" the other platforms as well.

You know.. no more than 40% of your hops can be in fighters.  Once you hit that CAP you have to fly bombers for a certain percentage or GVs for a certain percentage!  

DAMN BJ !  I think you've broken the code !  Then everyone will have an appreciation for the other guys that don't do exactly what they do!

Wonder how we can get this enacted :huh
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Country imbalance
Post by: SlapShot on September 17, 2006, 10:53:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Hey, maybe we are on to something here.....

Instead of just doing arenas so people are forced into flying a certain style of fight or year of plane... we could set it up so folks have to "fly" the other platforms as well.

You know.. no more than 40% of your hops can be in fighters.  Once you hit that CAP you have to fly bombers for a certain percentage or GVs for a certain percentage!  

DAMN BJ !  I think you've broken the code !  Then everyone will have an appreciation for the other guys that don't do exactly what they do!

Wonder how we can get this enacted :huh


I  have already done it all ... Fighters ... GVs ... Bombers ... I prefer flying fighters ... I like an occasional run in GVs ... could care less about bombers.

Those that haven't "tried it all" ... are probably the lowest in percentge of the total population.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Country imbalance
Post by: bj229r on September 17, 2006, 11:02:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Hey, maybe we are on to something here.....

Instead of just doing arenas so people are forced into flying a certain style of fight or year of plane... we could set it up so folks have to "fly" the other platforms as well.

You know.. no more than 40% of your hops can be in fighters.  Once you hit that CAP you have to fly bombers for a certain percentage or GVs for a certain percentage!  

DAMN BJ !  I think you've broken the code !  Then everyone will have an appreciation for the other guys that don't do exactly what they do!

Wonder how we can get this enacted :huh


YYYYYup, I'm smart that way
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 17, 2006, 11:15:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Well. actually the whines of the past were from the "Pure fighter" guys...now that the otherside of the community are being effected..we see many many guys are responding that rarely have posted before.
In light of that i think we can all see who the constant cry babies of the HTC BBS are. Opinions of the few... ;)



Actually, if you notice the "Pure fighther" players are the ones that approve of the arena changes.  


ack-ack
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 17, 2006, 11:23:11 AM
ok 4510...  why do you fly the d9?    I know that in any really fast plane like the tempest or lala or peee51 or whatever... you had a great chance of not ever getting caught if you paid the slightest bit of attention and/or hung out with/above the horde.. you could allways run... why would anyone chase you or.. how could they catch you?   boring stuff tho.

I think the reasons for the changes are good.   I think more adjusting will happen... some you will like... some I will like.

I don't think you were in the EW long enough or enough into the spirit of it to judge.   That seems obvious...  there seem to be layers in it... I fly low and slow... avoid getting into the fight till it comes down.   In the low furball the 109's aren't around too much they run... know what i mean vern?

I can see that your style would not work out for the early war.   I can see how some new guys might like the LW and the chance to at least kill with lots of cannon..  I can see how some might like preying on said newbies.

Just not what I like to do..  apparently there are a lot of guys who feel the same.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Tumor on September 17, 2006, 12:34:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Actually, if you notice the "Pure fighther" players are the ones that approve of the arena changes.  


ack-ack


nuhuh!!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: cav58d on September 17, 2006, 12:44:40 PM
Lazs-  You keep telling everyone to suck it up, and switch sides if needed...Well your wrong...I have been a rook for four years...I have switched sides maybe 5 or 6 times, and that was for the mininum time frame...Why?  Because I am faithful to the team I play on...I like flying with friends...Friends is one of the main reasons I stay in this game...Yea, I could prolly fly against them and have a good fight...But it wont be half as much fun as having my two favorite wingmen next to me, instead of inside my gunsight....Im sorry but a lot of us are set in our ways, and take this game to seriously and will not be changing sides...

on another note, all I have seen is hordes....worse then the old MA ever was.....


BLAH:rolleyes:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 17, 2006, 12:50:36 PM
so cav... if you play touch football or baseball or something.... if everyone wants to play with their buds do you just have teams that are say 15 to 1?

or do you just leave and not play?

You might be surprised that going to the bathroom without a girlfriend holding your hand is scary but... rewarding...  you might find that all those guys on the other team..

They are just as good a guys as the ones that you hang out with day after day after day after....

Cracks me up... the guys saying this is breaking up the community... never fly with more than one chess piece.. never get to know anyone..

What a waste of a multiplayer game...  for all you know the other chesspieces are just Ai

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Connery on September 17, 2006, 01:03:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro


Why didn’t you take a poll or announce it earlier?

It wouldn’t be useful to us for this change.  We know it’s going to be controversial.  The real test is not whether people think they’re going to like it or dislike it, it’s what happens after we make the transition and things are settled.  I didn’t like beer the first time I tried it but I’ve grown quite fond of it since then.  The transition is the worst part and we have no interest in dragging that out opening up a conflict of speculation before it even starts. We ultimately have to do what we think is best for the game.


I think you got this wrong here, I think you should be doing all that you can to satisfy your customers/subscribers, as without them you have no game.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 17, 2006, 01:16:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
ok 4510...  why do you fly the d9?    

I don't think you were in the EW long enough or enough into the spirit of it to judge.  

I can see that your style would not work out for the early war.


Just not what I like to do..  apparently there are a lot of guys who feel the same.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


I fly German... also fly the A5 and 109-F4 in LW.
As far as paying attention to what is around me... it's called Situational Awareness (SA).

Judging.. I've flown some time in the EWA everyday I've flown since the change was made.  I LIKE the EWA.

EW and my "style", yeah you are right.  I was landing 4 kills hops continously.  Only time I didn't I got rammed.

It's what I like to do.. apparently there are a lot of guys who feel the same.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hitech on September 17, 2006, 01:19:28 PM
Quote
I think you should be doing all that you can to satisfy your customers/subscribers, as without them you have no game.



I 100% agree with this statement.

But along with that comes a fiew pieces of knowledge.

1. Satisfing some one verses giving them what they ask for are not the same thing.

2. It is almost imposible to satisfy everyone.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 17, 2006, 01:22:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MrDick
 Scrub the MW it is always sub 100 flyers or at least add it to EW.

-MrD


Why scrub it or add it to the EWA?  It's by far the best of the three arenas and the low numbers make for some excellent 1v1 fights that you can't find in any of the other two arenas.


ack-ack
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: betty on September 17, 2006, 01:26:22 PM
i agree hitech, we're human, and human nature is that we r never satisfied with anything, at all...its just the way life works.

i personally don't mind the changes now that i can squad text to my squadies in other arenas, i just wish that we could use squad vox across the other arenas or even if u could put the rosters together.....like have the roster go :


Early War

blah
blah
blah


Mid War

blah
blah
blah


Late War

blah
blah
blah

so that was u can at least see if ur squad is on instead of tryin to .f them to locate them...just a suggestion, but the squad vox thing would b cool...just my 2 cents :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: LEADPIG on September 17, 2006, 01:40:39 PM
I think you should be doing all that you can to satisfy your customers/subscribers, as without them you have no game.


Quote
Originally posted by hitech
I 100% agree with this statement.

But along with that comes a fiew pieces of knowledge.

1. Satisfing some one verses giving them what they ask for are not the same thing.

2. It is almost imposible to satisfy everyone.


Hi-Tech hit the nail on the head with this one. I totally respect their trying a new idea, but if it dosen't work just go back to the drawing board. I honestly wish HTC would forget screwing with the arenas and just fix up Combat Tour. I understand that was anounced since before the birth of Christ. lol  :lol
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ByeBye on September 17, 2006, 01:55:48 PM
Leave the MA the way it was. Exactly the way it was with the same cap.

Cap the new arenas at 250 and have duplicates spawn after 90%.

I think this would solve every one of my issues with the changes, and probably keep the guys that like the EW, MW arenas happy as well.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: KTM520guy on September 17, 2006, 02:19:49 PM
The new system could work very well. The biggest draw back is the cap limits followed by ENY as a close second. I just came from the Mid War Arena and you could not fly any mid war planes :mad: ENY should be disabled and cap limits set to 1000. The current system of opening a second arena when one gets close to full is just plain stupid. If 260 guys want to go to Late War only 250 get in and 10 get put in another room. Might as well just log aff if you are unlucky enough to get in the big room.

I say this just to vent a litle and for the sake of discussion. I know very well that nothing will done to correct these flaws and I accept that.

Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 17, 2006, 02:52:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 5tu4rt
I think you got this wrong here, I think you should be doing all that you can to satisfy your customers/subscribers, as without them you have no game.

There's nothing you can do that will make everyone happy, running your business with that (trying to make everyone happy) as the top priority is a disaster. Your top priority should be the long-term health of the game.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Hap on September 17, 2006, 02:53:03 PM
I jumped to the end.  Are folks still civil?

hap
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Connery on September 17, 2006, 02:54:43 PM
HTC - Where did I say that you should give the people what they want ?  Reason I ask is your reply seems to presume that was my intention.

Also with regards to the subscribers who aren't happy, I would be interested to know how you feel about the situation, I mean of course this isn't an ideal world, but are you really prepared to potentially lose business for those guys who feel the current situation doesn't suit them ?

Either way for me it doesn't even matter, I don't even know why I am posting here as I myself am no longer a subscriber and doubt I will return (even thought I've came back like 3-4 times before.)

I hope you find a solution to the problem as the game is so strong because of the playerbase you have and the community and squads within the game, to "break them up" seems a shame.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: gatt on September 17, 2006, 03:07:41 PM
BTW, thank you for an early war arena with the Spitfire IX but not the 109G-2 ... thats even worst than the wrong rollin plane set I played with the old Warbirds.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: straffo on September 17, 2006, 03:09:32 PM
btw F4U4 is free in mid war arena ... eekkk
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Connery on September 17, 2006, 03:38:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert1
There's nothing you can do that will make everyone happy, running your business with that (trying to make everyone happy) as the top priority is a disaster. Your top priority should be the long-term health of the game.


So wrong - Based on the assumption that HTC is earning a living from this game of course his priority should be his customers/subscribers. No customers = no $ and no food on the table.

I understand u cant please all of the people all the time, but there should be a compromise that can be reached.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MWL on September 17, 2006, 04:01:58 PM
Greetings,

  Ah, yes, you can also go broke trying to please everyone - and probly quicker.  Been down that road, tried it and stopped before it got to expensive.  Went back to what I knew made sense.  Lots of people think they know how to run your business.  Problem is, it ain't their money.

  AH has been doing this a while.  From the looks, they have been fairly successful and will continue to be so.

  Yes, some people will leave, some won't, more will appear.  Know your target audience and appeal to them - especially the next set of customers.  Keeping your base while expanding to new customers, that is the trick.  Again, based on history, looks like AH knows what they are doing.

  From the numbers, looks to me like more people are playing at night (US) than since I restarted playing.  Congrats AH!

Regards,
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Murdr on September 17, 2006, 04:16:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Why scrub it or add it to the EWA?  It's by far the best of the three arenas and the low numbers make for some excellent 1v1 fights that you can't find in any of the other two arenas.


ack-ack

I think its culture shock AKAK.  When numbers are low one has to extend a bit of respect to enemy players if they wish to find fights.  (vulch and pick too often, and they will go elsewhere to fight).  I was in Mid about 2 hours.  I accumulated 23 kills.  Helps to not be a jerk if you want opponents to come back and try again.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Jackal1 on September 17, 2006, 04:25:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 5tu4rt

I understand u cant please all of the people all the time, but there should be a compromise that can be reached.


This is the compromise.  :rolleyes:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 17, 2006, 04:31:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
That's what I saw... what did you see?


I saw you in a 6 on 1 flying for the Rooks, which were the high-numbers country at that time. Also, at the times I saw you and MrDick in the EWA, the LW arenas were not full, with LW1 at 230, and LW2 at 35 or 40.

Given that, I'm not sure that your comments on gameplay being unchanged are relevant or not. Sure, you're still doing that kind of thing, and so are others, but I didn't see the same level of hangar dropping and horde missions that I was never able to avoid in the old MA. I've had a lot more fun in a few hours in the new setup than I had in months in game, and so I consider that to be an improvement.


5tuart- the game is the only product HT offers. It is the only thing that attracts customers. The customers may make him money, but that doesn't mean that they will stay on for years, no matter how hard he works at pleasing only them. However, by focusing on making the game a better product, he will always have new customers, even if he loses a few along the way.

As an example, when AH2 went live, and people realized they'd need to upgrade computers and have better hardware than before, numbers dropped dramatically. There was a great deal of panic then, as people prophecied the immediate death of HTC.

A few years later, here we are still playing the game, with more players than ever before, and more on the way. HT could have worked very hard to maintain that old core of AH1 customers, and he would probably still have been unable to keep them all interested, and would never have had the opportunity for the kind of growth that I've witnessed in that time.

That compromise you mention, IMO, is making the game (the product that brought those customers in the first place) better and better.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Connery on September 17, 2006, 04:37:39 PM
No this has been forced upon the players - or so it seems.

Anyway im done posting now I think I made my point.

GL everyone :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ByeBye on September 17, 2006, 04:39:29 PM
The most logical solution to 99.9% of all the whines resulting from the change is:

1. MA (LW)  arena with no cap, unchanged from original MA

2. New arenas ( EW, MW) with 250 player cap.....duplicates after 90%


How could anyone cry about that setup?

Even Lazs couldn't find a bad thing about it.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Shuffler on September 17, 2006, 04:50:15 PM
My thoughts at this time? The Jury is still out and the clock is running. I've had some great fights recently and on the flip side I was grounded by ENY (which has now been fixed so I am told).

I believe if we keep the gripes to ourselves and introduce truely productive ideas on improvement, we can help HTC to make our community better. Some will succeed in working hard and helping, others will bail when the going gets tough. It's a choice each of the folks in our community can freely make and we should not throw rocks at anyone no matter what their choice is.

Well enough typing for now....


Time will tell... meanwhile, I'll meet yall in the MW :D
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 17, 2006, 04:54:17 PM
Nobody's actually read anything but the last page, have they?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ByeBye on September 17, 2006, 04:55:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Nobody's actually read anything but the last page, have they?


I've read every post in both threads.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ByeBye on September 17, 2006, 05:00:02 PM
Anyone have a better idea than mine?

1. leave the original MA exactly the way it was, but no cap

2. have the EW and MW just as they are now, except add duplicate arenas after 90% of 250 cap.


Even Lazs should approve.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ByeBye on September 17, 2006, 05:06:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ByeBye
Anyone have a better idea than mine?

1. leave the original MA exactly the way it was, but no cap

2. have the EW and MW just as they are now, except add duplicate arenas after 90% of 250 cap.


Even Lazs should approve.


Well Bye Bye, the only thing I would say against this argument is that nobody get punished/coerced or locked out of arenas and that's a major problem for me.

:lol
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: stephen on September 17, 2006, 05:07:50 PM
new system is taking man power away and turning the arenas into non fluid fighter fests, though im sure this is fine with most i for one am sick of fighting over A43 in the only arena where i can fly every plane, late-war should have an expanded # allowable, nice try with the new format but its killing the war aspect of the game...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Codeman05 on September 17, 2006, 05:11:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ByeBye
Well Bye Bye, the only thing I would say against this argument is that nobody get punished/coerced or locked out of arenas and that's a major problem for me.

:lol



...Talking to yourself? Thats not a good sign :eek:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: TinmanX on September 17, 2006, 05:14:14 PM
It's called "forgetting to log out of your shade"
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 17, 2006, 05:15:33 PM
:lol  First rule of BBS shades : remember which one you're logged in under.

     Second rule of BBS shades: don't talk to yourself.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ByeBye on September 17, 2006, 05:20:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

Somebody asked... I like the arenas for the most part and yes.... I have a subscription....  I have never heard of most of the guys complaining but I bet a look at their stats would show what they liked to do and why they don't want choice.

lazs
Public Relatiions Officer for the BK's


In the MA of old, everyone had the same choice. What exactly was your problem when the old MA was all there was? What choices were limited? All planes were available for all players.

Maybe you didn't like that you chose to fly an Fm2 and most  others chose to fly other planes? You are all about choice, right?

Your are funny. Now you are happy that the nanny gave you your safe playground to play in.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ByeBye on September 17, 2006, 05:22:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TinmanX
It's called "forgetting to log out of your shade"


I quoted myself on purpose. Satire.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MrDick on September 17, 2006, 05:26:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MWL
Problem is, it ain't their money.



$14.95 a month says it is.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ByeBye on September 17, 2006, 05:31:27 PM
Lazs is a vocal person here. He says he wants choice.

Lets say we have only one arena, and all planes are enabled .

That would be a completely open arena, and anyone could fly whatever plane they wanted. Laz had that arena, but he said that it destroyed his choices? LOL!

Laz, what you really wanted was a nanny arena, so you could fly your Fm2 ( which was available before) and not have all the better planes bothering you. Am I reading you correctly?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MrDick on September 17, 2006, 05:32:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
I saw you in a 6 on 1 flying for the Rooks, which were the high-numbers country at that time. Also, at the times I saw you and MrDick in the EWA, the LW arenas were not full, with LW1 at 230, and LW2 at 35 or 40.



The arena populations are a point in time.  Just because the pop is currently low when *you* looked doesn't mean it was the same when *I* joined.

I have already plainly stated that an arena with 35-40 pilots is ridiculous.  My ideal population is 350-400 pilots.

Besides hubs, your play time logged is 0:00:00 for this tour and last tour, unless your post ID is different.  So what is your game ID?

-MrD
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 17, 2006, 05:44:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MrDick
The arena populations are a point in time.  Just because the pop is currently low when *you* looked doesn't mean it was the same when *I* joined.

I have already plainly stated that an arena with 35-40 pilots is ridiculous.  My ideal population is 350-400 pilots.

Besides hubs, your play time logged is 0:00:00 for this tour and last tour, unless your post ID is different.  So what is your game ID?

-MrD


Then why not fly in the LW arena? It wasn't maxed during the time I was on. 5 hours, 19 minutes, and some odd seconds. I don't care what you do, really, as long as you're not bothering me. I was just suggesting that if the larger arena is really what you want, and it's there... ya know, make use of it.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: ByeBye on September 17, 2006, 05:47:08 PM
Lazs wants choice and has poked fun/whined about people who fly fast planes.

The fast plane guys just stubornly flew their rides, while Lazs was forced against his will to fly an FM2 against them. Lazs had no other choice, until the nanny arena opened up.

Lazs only flys the early war planes because he likes them. The guys that fly the late war planes are just idiots.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MWL on September 17, 2006, 06:07:04 PM
Greetings,

This comment post by MR D:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MWL
Problem is, it ain't their money.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



$14.95 a month says it is.
---------------------

 Totally taken out of context.  Yes, your 15 dollars is yours - and would run a server for what?  10min?  buy 10 min of health coverage, cover the salvary of one programer for 10 min, pay the rent for 2 hours?  

  The 10s to 100s of thousands AH used for initial funding etc . . . . ain't yours, nor mine.   You got a better idea?  Great, fund it and build it.  Then you get to decide how to spend the company's money, target what population, purchase what equipment, decide on format of the game etc . . . .  and I will certainly check it out, and if I like the product, buy a subscription.

Regards,
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Enduro on September 17, 2006, 06:41:53 PM
This may have been asked for a thousand times already, but here's request # 1,001:

We definitely need a command that finds all online squaddies.
example: .L =GHOSTS= would list all the Ghosts that are online & the arenas that they're in.

Thanks.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: KTM520guy on September 17, 2006, 07:08:52 PM
What would really help to find your squadies would for the roster to list all players and what arena they are in. It would like one stop shopping.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 17, 2006, 08:00:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by stephen
new system is taking man power away and turning the arenas into non fluid fighter fests...nice try with the new format but its killing the war aspect of the game...


Good.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Iron_Cross on September 17, 2006, 08:37:27 PM
For those who think  that you had "choice" in the old MA, what drugs are you taking?  The only choice you had was the LA-7, NIK1, or Spit XVI.  You ither flew the ubercannon machines, or you were fodder for them, that is some choice. Fly with the 40-50 strong horde, or get pounded into snail snot by them, again another choice.  

I like what Hitech did.  I like that now we don't have to worry about facing LaLa's, Niki's, and the horde.  The arena cap is excelent, it has done more to improve gameplay than anything HT has done in the past.  

The spliting the arenas into three time periods is also another stroke of genius.  You can still fly what you want, and not be totaly outclassed.

ENY needs to be adressed in all arenas, but that will be worked out eventually.

What Hitech has done has been nothing short of excising a cancer at the heart of the old style of "gameplay".  Gone are the 40-60 La-7 air divisions, the MEGASQUADs, the 20 Tiffy raids.  If you manage to get all of  your squad in the same arena you probably will overbalance the arena, and kick in the ENY limit.

Hitech was right, the MA was becoming a slum.  A slum that was increasingly being ruled by the HORDE.  The horde like any gang of hooligans, went after the easy targets.  The lightly/un defended bases fell before them, and succes bred a certain disrespect for the game.  I've been playing this game on and off for 6 years, I welcome back the game I started out playing.  The horde is dead, long live the community.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: KTM520guy on September 17, 2006, 08:56:49 PM
How can anyone think the Spit XVI and NIK1 are uber?:huh
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: The Fugitive on September 17, 2006, 09:39:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ByeBye
Anyone have a better idea than mine?

1. leave the original MA exactly the way it was, but no cap

2. have the EW and MW just as they are now, except add duplicate arenas after 90% of 250 cap.


Even Lazs should approve.


I think what HTC did is far better than your idea. Pyro said they made the changes due to the health of the MA. Now wether you belive that or not, thats the reason they gave :D  I happen to agree with them. For years the the game play has become more and more stagnet. You either joined the horde, or were trampled by it. You flew the "uber" planes, or you got creamed by a bunch of them. Either possition doesn't really sound like fun to me.

I've flown sims for years AW, FA, WB, AH and I've never seen it get this bad. The game was turning into  one of those first person shooter games my kids play.... jump into the room firering everything you got as you dodge, roll, and leap your way thru a room... hoping you make it, and if you don't you try it over and over and over! There is no skill, just luck. AH had turned into pretty much the same thing, up a plane with the horde chase down a bad guy WITH the horde ducking and dodging hoping not to get kill shot and praying you get enough rounds into him before the other 12 guys do. If not, you up a new plane and try again, over and over, and over.

Now with the multiple arenas the fights are back! 1 vs 1 1 vs 2. People congratulate and salute each other from country to country, they come back again and again to fight the same 3 guys, some time winning, some times not. I havn't seen the "land grab" much, but have hooked up with a couple other to grab a base or two. Spent over an hour with 3-4 others trying to take a Vbase from 3-4 LTAR's lots of fun had by all.

You guys who have only flown a year or so don't know the trill of real compitition in the arenas. All you know is the horde. I've flow both, and let me tell you the "old way" was much better. How do you think these "old timers""vets" got to be so good?  The compition is better when your not in the horde, when the fight comes down to YOUR skill, not being saved by 15 "friendly's" trying to cherry pick the guy on your butt.... with out giving you a check 6 I might add  :)

My vote, should HTC ever call for one is surely to go for the new arenas, as the old MA was getting really old.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: JB88 on September 17, 2006, 09:43:53 PM
my guess is that new squads will evolve and choose certain arenas to excell at.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Stang on September 17, 2006, 10:40:13 PM
LOL busted shadez!

Retard.



:lol
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Baine on September 17, 2006, 10:56:30 PM
Quote
when AH2 went live, and people realized they'd need to upgrade computers and have better hardware than before, numbers dropped dramatically. There was a great deal of panic then, as people prophecied the immediate death of HTC.

But let's not forget that after AHII came out, and more and more eye candy was added, there was a great deal of panic, that panic eventually led to the implementing of the optimization code that helped to solve a lot of the FR problems, precisely because people moaned and groaned that AHII as presented, was driving a lot of people away.
Now this shows, that like any good business, HTC recognized that they were in danger of losing loyal customers and did something to address the problem.
But it also shows that HTC is not the great and powerful Oz, always right and never making a mistake.
That's why these forums are valuable, because when they do have a problem, they get immediate and impassioned feedback.
For a couple of months now they'd been hearing from the horde haters about how the game was going to hell in a handbasket.
Now they are hearing from the people who don't like the new setup.
Sure, some hate it just on principal, but there are others who are saying that the changes as implemented, contain fundamental flaws (such as the screwed up ENY, the problem of being able to fly with your virtual friends  and the way that the community is spread over so many arenas that sometimes it is just plain boring out there) that must be addressed ASAP so folks can settle down and give this thing a real chance.

People might not like change, but people who are happily flying don't have time to haunt the boards.



Not one of those problems is reason enough to ditch this whole thing, but they are things that should have been addressed a week ago, and since they were not, they should be addressed with all possible speed.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MIShill on September 18, 2006, 01:20:54 AM
The idea of squads settling into a "preferred" arena should happen pretty rapidly. That may allow HTC to modify-somewhat- the size of the arenas without returning to the prior problems. All in all I'm pleased with the changes.
-MI-
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: soupcan on September 18, 2006, 01:33:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by stephen
new system is taking man power away and turning the arenas into non fluid fighter fests, though im sure this is fine with most i for one am sick of fighting over A43 in the only arena where i can fly every plane, late-war should have an expanded # allowable, nice try with the new format but its killing the war aspect of the game...


:huh
i completely disagree....

have been flying in midwar arena and have not found any shortage
of fights/captures ect, EVEN with the low numbers.

want a fight? check dar bar/base flashing.

sorry but i haven't found the "war aspect" to have died at all.

lastly you say your sick of fighting over a43.....
guess what...GO somewhere else on the map then ..yikes.

i cant believe i'm gonna  say this but it seems i'm starting to warm up to some of laz's comments. whats the world coming to?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: soupcan on September 18, 2006, 01:36:10 AM
o ya missed 1 comment.....

u say u must fly in the arena with all planes enabled....

please do tell what your most common ride is.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: bozon on September 18, 2006, 05:39:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Enduro
This may have been asked for a thousand times already, but here's request # 1,001:

We definitely need a command that finds all online squaddies.
example: .L =GHOSTS= would list all the Ghosts that are online & the arenas that they're in.

Quote
What would really help to find your squadies would for the roster to list all players and what arena they are in. It would like one stop shopping.


In the "Roster" page on the clipboard add a button "other areana" then you can select to view the roster of any other areana. I'm not sure how simple is this to implement though.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: twiggs on September 18, 2006, 05:43:22 AM
I still say HTC needs to put 1 arena and just make it a role plane set, then that will make up the 3 arena's when planes r out and what not and give every1 a chance to fly early,mid and late planes. and keep all planes out also. I have it like the old MA but with a twist..roll plane set. plain and simple.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: bozon on September 18, 2006, 06:07:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ByeBye
Lets say we have only one arena, and all planes are enabled .

That would be a completely open arena, and anyone could fly whatever plane they wanted. Laz had that arena, but he said that it destroyed his choices? LOL!

Laz, what you really wanted was a nanny arena, so you could fly your Fm2 ( which was available before) and not have all the better planes bothering you. Am I reading you correctly?

That areana, you had before and still have. Its name was changed from "main areana" to "late war". YOUR options have not changed.

On the other hand, what were your options if you wanted to fly P40B or JU87? In principle you COULD fly them in the old MA but how fun is it to fight planes whose stall speed is close to you cruise speed? about 2/3 of AH plane set was crowned "hangar queens".

So yes, now you do have more options. You can go to the LWA and keep doing what you were doing, or try MWA/EWA and fly a hangar queen with the other royalty and actually enjoy it. just look at it! people are having a blast with wildcats, P40s, 109E. When was the last time you saw B5N, SBD, Stuka used as attack planes?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: gatt on September 18, 2006, 06:48:20 AM
Bozon,

if we had not the actual arena limits you would see 80% of players entering the arena with the biggest numbers, no matter what phase of war it is. Thats the way it was and thats the reason why the AvA and DA were almost always empty.

I dont like our new early war arena. We miss so many [edit] 1940-41 fighters and bombers that the plane set is filled even with Spitfire IX and 190A-5. Now someone is even asking for the F4U-1 ... go figure.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Shifty on September 18, 2006, 07:25:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TinmanX
It's called "forgetting to log out of your shade"

LOL:rofl
Exactly
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 18, 2006, 07:35:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Iron_Cross
For those who think  that you had "choice" in the old MA, what drugs are you taking?  The only choice you had was the LA-7, NIK1, or Spit XVI.  You ither flew the ubercannon machines, or you were fodder for them, that is some choice. Fly with the 40-50 strong horde, or get pounded into snail snot by them, again another choice.  

I like what Hitech did.  I like that now we don't have to worry about facing LaLa's, Niki's, and the horde.  The arena cap is excelent, it has done more to improve gameplay than anything HT has done in the past.  

The spliting the arenas into three time periods is also another stroke of genius.  You can still fly what you want, and not be totaly outclassed.

ENY needs to be adressed in all arenas, but that will be worked out eventually.

What Hitech has done has been nothing short of excising a cancer at the heart of the old style of "gameplay".  Gone are the 40-60 La-7 air divisions, the MEGASQUADs, the 20 Tiffy raids.  If you manage to get all of  your squad in the same arena you probably will overbalance the arena, and kick in the ENY limit.

Hitech was right, the MA was becoming a slum.  A slum that was increasingly being ruled by the HORDE.  The horde like any gang of hooligans, went after the easy targets.  The lightly/un defended bases fell before them, and succes bred a certain disrespect for the game.  I've been playing this game on and off for 6 years, I welcome back the game I started out playing.  The horde is dead, long live the community.


Great post!

DMF, did you send this guy an invite yet?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: save on September 18, 2006, 07:36:54 AM
flying a spit1 or a hurri1 and early allied biuffs vs anything else but an me109e ( bob period), ju88 , he111 do17 stuka -87 would be insane - all would man  the
late planes within the period.

"another game" had an arena ( bob) with only contemporary aircraft -was a joy to fly in there - unfortunately without allied BoB buffs.

another way to do it is with an early war RPS, mid war RPS ,and a late-war RPS
arenas
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert1 on September 18, 2006, 07:44:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Stang
LOL busted shadez!

Retard.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the use of Shades against the EULA of this BBS? I know for a fact Skuzzy has a distaste for those who have conversations with themselves here. Maybe that is why he names his shade account "ByeBye"?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 18, 2006, 08:27:18 AM
bye bye... bye bye.  you need to come  clean...  it makes your case better.

Just read your whine.   You seem to have not read the reasons that were stated by pyro for the change.    That was not my idea it was HTC's

The choice to fly a spit one in the old main was....no choice at all.    I flew the FM2 because it was about the lowest perfoming plane you could get and still not get slaughtered by all the lalas and 190d's and such.

leaving the old MA would not work on the small maps so Iwould assume that you mean bring back the old MA with large maps and no cap right?

Are you hoping that more will go to that than go to the lW combined arenas because it seems to me that 90% of the time there is room in the LW arena for anyone who wants it which is.... no cap in essence.   The EW and MW arenas have more combined players than LW sooo..

No matter what, you aren't gonna have the old MA ever again so long as people have choice... unless they are forced to fly with you... they won't.

Even 4510 and such have found that they can still find the fastest best climbing plane in the EW and fly riskless in the EW.

To sum it up...  you really have no cap now in the LW arena cause it is rarely full

The EW and MW combined have more players.

The small maps won't support much more than the caps are now sooo.. you would have to go to large maps... say you got 300 in the LW with large maps...  90% of the time it would be more like 100-200  can you imagine how lonely a large map with that many players on would be?

Even before... the MA was allmost fun in the small maps but the whorde would kill em too fast... how would that change if LW kept the small maps?   it is a no win situation... you either need some sort of cap or.... large maps again.   The new maps developed will be small ones... the new planes developed will most likely be mostly early and mid war ones...

Taking more players from the LW.

No matter how you look at it.. the genie is out of the bottle... people like the "choice" of not flying early and mid war planes against the gamey late war ones.   People don't like the mega whordes.

Even a lot of the people who fly in LW don't do it out of choice... they do it cause they think they have to... they think that they have to in order to be a good "squaddie".

The mega squads were a bad thing for the game..  they were in essence a cheat...  the rules said 30 guys.. that kept a community...some decided that they didn't like that rule so gamed it and then proceeded to grief the game.   They did such a good job that it pointed out flaws in the whole honor system anything goes one MA setup.  they gloated about it and now they are crying.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Eagler on September 18, 2006, 09:09:19 AM
what about score? shouldn't it be broke up EW, MW & LW now? and is there going to be top dogs in each era whose names are listed on the website?
figure I can redirect the whining .... :)
Title: New Arenas
Post by: Patches1 on September 18, 2006, 09:10:32 AM
Initially, I was against this change and I voiced my displeasure! However, after flying it for a few days I find it rather pleasant. I can still find a fight (so far) even during low number periods and am enjoying myself a bit more than I was in the MA.

I think there is room for much growth and potential within this new system.

I apologise to HT and his crew for my knee-jerk reaction. Keep up the good work, Folks!

Patches
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: KAntti on September 18, 2006, 09:31:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Panzzer
KAntti, Have....

You're my squadmates, how come you like the Early War Arena that much better than the setups that were being offered in the AvA?

Cheers, I hope you'll continue to be my squadmates despite the arena we'll fly in. :)


Panzzer, it's a matter of plane selection and diversity. Absolutely: AvA gives the balanced fight and the great fights. BUT, after a while you (I mean I) get tired flying the same maps, or A map with AND against the same few balanced plane setups over and over. In EWA, even if one flys the same plane all the time (like I do), the opposition is diverse enough not to repeat it self too often.

Same thing goes with SEA. Mostly latewar stuff whistling trough the air, because we lack the balanced early war plane selection to produce diverse SE's.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SkyRock on September 18, 2006, 11:09:07 AM
I bumped into some of the changes HT made last night.  They were flyin in a group about 8k above A2.  They dove down on me with great fury trying to pick my lowly spitV.  I ended up owning every one of them and even got PM'd by the LW1  and his bud LW2.  So I took them both to the DA and kicked the crap out of them both within 10 seconds after first merge!  I wouldn't even worry about the changes, to me they're nothing but cannon fodder!:rolleyes:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 18, 2006, 11:13:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BansheCH
Pyro I think the changes are great except for one thing. Your setup is when one arena is caped a 2nd arena opens. This is a problem for our squad. We have 4 divisions with a total of over 70 members. Our problem is on squad nights we are haveing members that cant get in the arena we are in. That is disapointing to our squad members and we dont want to split them up into other arenas.  

Perhaps there was a reason for limiting a squad to 32 players, perhaps the reason was not an arbitrary one. Perhaps you guys creating these mega-skwadz are gaming the game and thus at least part of the reason for the lowered caps.

...just thinking out loud...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 68Ripper on September 18, 2006, 11:57:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
Perhaps there was a reason for limiting a squad to 32 players, perhaps the reason was not an arbitrary one. Perhaps you guys creating these mega-skwadz are gaming the game and thus at least part of the reason for the lowered caps.

...just thinking out loud...


I believe the question was addressed to Pyro, not you Dilbert

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 18, 2006, 12:19:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 68Ripper
I believe the question was addressed to Pyro, not you Dilbert
 

Oh I see, a private question posted in a public forum, thanks for clearing that up.
:rolleyes:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Lye-El on September 18, 2006, 01:13:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 68Ripper
I believe the question was addressed to Pyro, not you Dilbert

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl


Pehaps email would be a better way of handling it then.....it keeps the agenda on th QT better that way. :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 18, 2006, 02:57:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

The EW and MW combined have more players.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


And MW + LW have more combined than early, Your point?

Again I look and see that LW is wayyy more populated than EW. Maybe it's just when I look, but LW always has more than Early. Right now, it even has more than EW + MW.  

38 EW

68 MW

163 LW


Have your EW arena, but drop the caps off the LW. I just don't undertand this.

HTC, Some of us like EPIC missions. Some of us Like the WAR. Some of us like Capturing bases. I am hanging on here hoping you will up the CAPs. With low caps and low #'s, it makes the things above just about impossible if the sides are anywhere close to balanced.

Maybe the MA needed some fixes, such as an EW arena, but these CAP's are not making for fun, IMO. All you did was take away what I saw as the the very thing that made this game UNIQUE!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Enduro on September 18, 2006, 03:20:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
Perhaps there was a reason for limiting a squad to 32 players, perhaps the reason was not an arbitrary one. Perhaps you guys creating these mega-skwadz are gaming the game and thus at least part of the reason for the lowered caps.

...just thinking out loud...


Thank you.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: gatt on September 18, 2006, 03:46:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Have your EW arena, but drop the caps off the LW. I just don't undertand this.

HTC, Some of us like EPIC missions. Some of us Like the WAR. Some of us like Capturing bases. I am hanging on here hoping you will up the CAPs. With low caps and low #'s, it makes the things above just about impossible if the sides are anywhere close to balanced.

Maybe the MA needed some fixes, such as an EW arena, but these CAP's are not making for fun, IMO. All you did was take away what I saw as the the very thing that made this game UNIQUE!


Why? If you drop the cap in LW everybody will go and play there. Thats why. You know, some die hard furballers and 1vs1 players have not the balls to populate an arena by themselves. So, here we are.  

This is the first time I feel kicked in my arse by the sim I've always considered as the best and I've always supported since 1999 beta.
Title: new Areanas
Post by: HGCeech on September 18, 2006, 03:49:08 PM
What Pyro is saying is ,its my bat and ball and if you want to play do it my way.For example today  late war 10 rooks,25 knights 45 bishops.Mid war  18 rooks,45 knights and  38 bishops,where is the logic there??Splitting up everyone is not the way to go,early war i did not go into.Bottom line is with all these  areanas and different plane sets,only surves the crybabies..:mad: :mad: :mad: Bring it back to where it was..
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Iron_Cross on September 18, 2006, 03:55:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Have your EW arena, but drop the caps off the LW. I just don't undertand this.

HTC, Some of us like EPIC missions. Some of us Like the WAR. Some of us like Capturing bases. I am hanging on here hoping you will up the CAPs. With low caps and low #'s, it makes the things above just about impossible if the sides are anywhere close to balanced.

Maybe the MA needed some fixes, such as an EW arena, but these CAP's are not making for fun, IMO. All you did was take away what I saw as the the very thing that made this game UNIQUE!


Listen, the lack of a cap in the old MA is what caused this horde mentality to form in the first place.  The ENY limit in the old MA was a bandaid at best, and useless at worst.  Simply adding a EWA and/or a MWA, was not going to fix the fundamental flaw with an unlimited cap on the MA.  The EWA/MWA would see about as much use as the AvA arena, if there was still the old MA in existance.

The root of the problem was the horde.  The horde was all the old MA was about.  To have any chance against the horde, you had to fly the uber cannon machines in order to make any dent in the horde, you had to form the MEGASQUAD(basically an organised horde) to turn back the other horde.  The horde was the 800 Lb. Gorilla, that did what it wanted in the MA.  You ether got out of it's way, or it sat on you.  That was the reason for this (some say drastic) change.  

Hitech has killed that 800 Lb. gorilla named HORDE, and the only people complaining are the parasites that fed off it.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 18, 2006, 04:02:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
HTC, Some of us like EPIC missions. Some of us Like the WAR. Some of us like Capturing bases. I am hanging on here hoping you will up the CAPs. With low caps and low #'s, it makes the things above just about impossible if the sides are anywhere close to balanced.

Listen to yourself...reread that please...

You are saying that the game is better when you can roll as an overwhelming horde and outnumber the opposition. You are saying that balanced gameplay is not a good thing. You are saying that the recent changes have hampered your ability to grief, and we are to beleive that is a bad thing. Do you not see the error, or at least the simple selfishness in your desires?

I think this is a classic example of what was wrong with 400+ players in one arena, and that the changes were implemented for the long term viability of the game itself. As a protection to future players from folks with the same mentality as you, these changes were definitely what the doctor ordered. Thank you HTC!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Domin on September 18, 2006, 04:10:57 PM
I dont know but I am sure loving all the 1v1s! I was against it at first now I am starting to like it. HTC
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Shifty on September 18, 2006, 04:12:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by gatt
You know, some die hard furballers and 1vs1 players have not the balls to populate an arena by themselves. So, here we are.  

 


It this is true, why does it seem all you mongel horde types are complaining about lack of people in arenas?:huh
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: DaPup on September 18, 2006, 04:19:38 PM
By the same token, if it wasn't true then why were the DA and AvA always empty :huh
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: gatt on September 18, 2006, 04:20:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shifty
It this is true, why does it seem all you mongel horde types are complaining about lack of people in arenas?:huh


I've never been in a horde, nor my squad. The only big complains I've been hearing lately (before the big arena change) are by FT boys about bombers ruining their game and by furballers about someone B&Zing their pretty low and slow fights.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Shifty on September 18, 2006, 04:32:47 PM
If your not a horde type.......... Whats the problem? Unless you feel the need for a 90 man super squad , I don't understand what all the complaining is about?

Plus doing things like purposely porking FT fields that were put on a map for the specific purpose to be used for furballing, and 90 man squads are  more to blame for the changes than the furball guys.

 So look to the domination junkies to point fingers of blame at. Epic battles are only epic when the both sides ahve a chance to win. Seal clubbbing is just that...............Seal clubbing.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Murdr on September 18, 2006, 04:37:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
HTC, Some of us like EPIC missions. Some of us Like the WAR. Some of us like Capturing bases. I am hanging on here hoping you will up the CAPs. With low caps and low #'s, it makes the things above just about impossible if the sides are anywhere close to balanced.

Quote
Originally posted by hitech
We make a game around WWII planes and vehicles. We do not try to simulate WWII. Simulation of WWII is one of   CT's goal's.
...But if you try taylor things in the main to be a recreation of WWII tatics, you start to run into major fun limiting restrictions.
------------------------------
Simply put Aces high is a game. If you ask what type of game is it. Its an air combat sim.
------------------------------
We do our best to try accuratly simulate the PERFORMANCE of aircraft ,vehicles, and amunition. In general game play we do not try simulate WWII.
...The historical aspects are used because they provide enjoyment to a portion of our customer base. But historical events are not a goal by itself,nore is it a goal to have more people fly in a historical settings,historical settings are done only because they brings enjoyment to a portion of our players.

So choosing what is to be simulated , how much historical aspect to give, and balancing everything is by no meens a simple task. It encompass looking at a lot of issues,from maintaining community,atracting new customers,to continualy trying to make the game more detailed ,with out eliminating the fun aspect.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: JMFJ on September 18, 2006, 04:56:29 PM
It doesn't take 400 players in the same arena to create a horde.  When there is only 50 people in an arena and 25 of them are on the same country, you've got a horde.  If anything the changes only ensured that the horde ratio will still continue to happen just in smaller #'s.  Instead of being 100 guys against 50, it will be 50 against 25.  I've seen guys already switching arena's just so they can be in one where the horde is in their favor.

Most of the big squads are just going to go to whatever arena they can fit all of there squadies in and start rolling in hordes and squashing the oppositon.

I really don't see why the late war arena can't be converted back into what the MA was.  Unlock all of the planes and vehicles, raise the amount of players that can be in there back to 700.  Basically put it back to exactly what it was before the arena change occured.

Some say that everyone will flock back to it (herd mentality), I don't necessarily agree they will.  But if they did wouldn't that be solid proof of which way the majority of the ***PAYING*** players prefer it.  Besides if they did that would just gaurantee that the guys looking for the 1 v.s. 1 fights will get just what they want in the early war arena.

Which means the furballers would get what they want (EWA), the horders/big squads would get what they want (LWA/MA), and HT would get what they want (split arena's)

In big business that is what is referred to as a WIN-WIN.  What we have now is a WIN-LOSE.

JMFJ
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 18, 2006, 04:57:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Iron_Cross

  To have any chance against the horde, you had to fly the uber cannon machines in order to make any dent in the horde, you had to form the MEGASQUAD(basically an organised horde) to turn back the other horde.  The horde was the 800 Lb. Gorilla, that did what it wanted in the MA.  You ether got out of it's way, or it sat on you.  That was the reason for this (some say drastic) change.  

 


You ever hear of a fighter sweep?

Enemy Hordes never bothered me, just more targets...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 18, 2006, 05:05:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
Listen to yourself...reread that please...

You are saying that the game is better when you can roll as an overwhelming horde and outnumber the opposition. You are saying that balanced gameplay is not a good thing. You are saying that the recent changes have hampered your ability to grief, and we are to beleive that is a bad thing. Do you not see the error, or at least the simple selfishness in your desires?

I think this is a classic example of what was wrong with 400+ players in one arena, and that the changes were implemented for the long term viability of the game itself. As a protection to future players from folks with the same mentality as you, these changes were definitely what the doctor ordered. Thank you HTC!


I said no such thing. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Also your condescending attitude is not the least bit helpful...

I said I like EPIC missions not 1 sided steam rolls. Epic Missions that involved being intercepted by enemey fighters. One of my favorite  was when our NOE mission got intercepted by on oncoming NOE mission. Friggin blast... Now it seems like the lines are stagnant unless one side IS outnumbered.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 18, 2006, 05:19:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
I said no such thing. Thanks for putting words in my mouth.


You said the the population caps prevent your "EPIC" missions (what do you mean by "epic" if not what the rest of us call a horde?), and that when the sides are balanced it prevents you from doing what you enjoy.

Those are your words bro, I did not write them, or put them in your mouth.
Title: Population Control
Post by: OrionV on September 18, 2006, 06:15:17 PM
I'm still thinking perking all weapons when eny kicks in is best.  Nothing works better than making someone pull some cash from their wallet.  I've been in late main 1 for about 3 hours this date and rooks been outnumbered by 3 or 4 to 1.  Squelch me Skuzzy but it true.  Lots of potential in this setup, but if you leave a flaw, it will be taken advantage of.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: The Fugitive on September 18, 2006, 06:20:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
And MW + LW have more combined than early, Your point?

Again I look and see that LW is wayyy more populated than EW. Maybe it's just when I look, but LW always has more than Early. Right now, it even has more than EW + MW.  

38 EW

68 MW

163 LW


Have your EW arena, but drop the caps off the LW. I just don't undertand this.

HTC, Some of us like EPIC missions. Some of us Like the WAR. Some of us like Capturing bases. I am hanging on here hoping you will up the CAPs. With low caps and low #'s, it makes the things above just about impossible if the sides are anywhere close to balanced.

Maybe the MA needed some fixes, such as an EW arena, but these CAP's are not making for fun, IMO. All you did was take away what I saw as the the very thing that made this game UNIQUE!


This is a direct quote, all I did was highlight what you said in red.... So your saying you can't play with out hordeing and totally out numbering the enemy? You can't WIIN a war without hording, nor can you capture bases with out great difficulty without hording. This what your saying in the above statement correct? I'm not putting words into your mouth correct?

Doesn't that sound just a bit lame? The "Epic" battle can still happen, you don't need hugh numbers to take bases, win a war, heck even have fun. We had 4 guys working at a Vbase, and the only reason we didn't capture it was it was defended by LTAR's. I hate to say it, but you take the planes away from LTAR's athey can really shine:D

The point is, learn to fight, learn some stratigy, stop depending on the "horde" and you'll find alot more enjoyment in this game than you thought possible!  
Title: Re: Population Control
Post by: hubsonfire on September 18, 2006, 06:31:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by OrionV
I'm still thinking perking all weapons when eny kicks in is best.  Nothing works better than making someone pull some cash from their wallet.  I've been in late main 1 for about 3 hours this date and rooks been outnumbered by 3 or 4 to 1.  Squelch me Skuzzy but it true.  Lots of potential in this setup, but if you leave a flaw, it will be taken advantage of.


Perking only works on people who care about perks. Judging by the number of A5s and 38s I see vulching with the ack and VH up, it's not enough of an issue to change gameplay and habits.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: pluck on September 18, 2006, 06:32:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JMFJ


I really don't see why the late war arena can't be converted back into what the MA was.  Unlock all of the planes and vehicles, raise the amount of players that can be in there back to 700.  Basically put it back to exactly what it was before the arena change occured.


In big business that is what is referred to as a WIN-WIN.  What we have now is a WIN-LOSE.

JMFJ


then you don't understand why HTC made the changes in the first place, so maybe you should read why.....then you'll see why the arena can't be converted back.

what we have now is a win-win.  there is nothing you can't do, it's just more competitive that's all.  like i've said before, some like competition, some like "fighting" in the guise of it.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 18, 2006, 07:03:43 PM
I can't believe that it has taken over 1000 posts for me to post this.

Guys you know who you are... here it comes... you get a ride in the
(http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/waaaambulance-23284.jpg)

Kudos to HT and Co.  I was on the fence about this change for a while, but I see how it will benefit the game and the players in the long run.  Good jorb, guys.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 18, 2006, 07:18:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
You said the the population caps prevent your "EPIC" missions (what do you mean by "epic" if not what the rest of us call a horde?), and that when the sides are balanced it prevents you from doing what you enjoy.

Those are your words bro, I did not write them, or put them in your mouth.


I said with Low Caps AND Low Numbers...

With low caps and low #'s, it makes the things above just about impossible if the sides are anywhere close to balanced.

With only 50 people on my side how are we supposed to get a HUGE mission together? I have seen a few misisons but they are all 5 or 10 people. It just blows...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 18, 2006, 07:30:03 PM
How many people do you need to milkrun an undefended base?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 18, 2006, 07:32:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
I said with Low Caps AND Low Numbers...

With low caps and low #'s, it makes the things above just about impossible if the sides are anywhere close to balanced.

With only 50 people on my side how are we supposed to get a HUGE mission together? I have seen a few misisons but they are all 5 or 10 people. It just blows...

Well at least we agree on what you said and what you meant. Thanks for your honesty, but I stand by my assesment of your playing style and your desires for the game. It appears I am not alone.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 18, 2006, 07:35:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by The Fugitive
This is a direct quote, all I did was highlight what you said in red.... So your saying you can't play with out hordeing and totally out numbering the enemy? You can't WIIN a war without hording, nor can you capture bases with out great difficulty without hording. This what your saying in the above statement correct? I'm not putting words into your mouth correct?

Doesn't that sound just a bit lame? The "Epic" battle can still happen, you don't need hugh numbers to take bases, win a war, heck even have fun. We had 4 guys working at a Vbase, and the only reason we didn't capture it was it was defended by LTAR's. I hate to say it, but you take the planes away from LTAR's athey can really shine:D

The point is, learn to fight, learn some stratigy, stop depending on the "horde" and you'll find alot more enjoyment in this game than you thought possible!  


No, That "red highlight" is taking things out of context.

This is what I said.

With low caps and low #'s, it makes the things above just about impossible if the sides are anywhere close to balanced.

Notice Low caps and LOW NUMBERS>>>

70 on a side just doesn't do it for me.... I like LARGE missions. I like running into other LARGE Missions. I do not like furballing. You guys do. It's ok. But you shouldn't really put down people who want more than just a furball...

As for the Epic battle "can still happen" no, I am afraid it seems to be gone. I haven't seen 1 HUGE bomber/escort mission since the change. The largest I have seen since the change was 4 sets of Buffs with 1 escort. They might still occur but I havent seen one...

I don't "Depend"  on the horde, I fly solo most of the time. I think you are missing my point, which is that it was fun with 50 guys all going on a mission together. That fun now seems gone and that sucks...but it's just my opinion and I hope they will fix it by upping the caps...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 18, 2006, 07:39:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
Well at least we agree on what you said and what you meant. Thanks for your honesty, but I stand by my assesment of your playing style and your desires for the game. It appears I am not alone.


LOL all you know is I like to fly in large bomber/escort missions.  That I think the LOW caps and Population have killed that off.

I seriously doubt I am the only person who enjoyed Huge Buff Raids...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Iron_Cross on September 18, 2006, 07:58:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
You ever hear of a fighter sweep?

Enemy Hordes never bothered me, just more targets...


Yea, I've heard of a fighter sweep.  I've even participated in a few.  They usually consist of about five to six people trying to stop the 40-50 strong La-7/Tiffy raid.  Yea more targets to shoot, but as soon as you shoot down one, or if your lucky two of them, the six or seven behind you shoot you down.  Rinse, repeat, BLARGH!  

If you do manage to slow down the horde, so that more of your buddies up to defend said base, they go away to find easier pickings.  That is more along the lines of WWI trench warfare.  

"OK chaps over the top, well show them by throwing our bodies at their guns and overwhelm them with our numbers!"

It was insaine then, and it is still insaine today.  

The horde was a ***** sandwich, and everybody in the MA had to take a bite, or log off and not play at all.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Oldman731 on September 18, 2006, 08:04:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
How many people do you need to milkrun an undefended base?

LOL.

- oldman (well....thirty?)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Oldman731 on September 18, 2006, 08:06:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Iron_Cross
Yea, I've heard of a fighter sweep.  I've even participated in a few.  They usually consist of about five to six people trying to stop the 40-50 strong La-7/Tiffy raid.  Yea more targets to shoot, but as soon as you shoot down one, or if your lucky two of them, the six or seven behind you shoot you down.  Rinse, repeat, BLARGH!  

My friend....this is the structure of war...

- oldman
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 18, 2006, 08:14:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Iron_Cross
Yea, I've heard of a fighter sweep.  I've even participated in a few.  They usually consist of about five to six people trying to stop the 40-50 strong La-7/Tiffy raid.  Yea more targets to shoot, but as soon as you shoot down one, or if your lucky two of them, the six or seven behind you shoot you down.  Rinse, repeat, BLARGH!  
 


5 guys attack a 50 man mission and get squashed and you are complaining about getting shot down. You could have made a mission for a fighter sweep, got your own 50 man mission and went after them.  But whatever those days are gone now I guess. Seems the "pure fighter guys" won out over the "We like to do everything crowd"...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: The Fugitive on September 18, 2006, 08:45:20 PM
Welll there's were I misunderstood you. By "Epic Mission" I thought you ment "memorible", "challanging", hard fought battle. My bad :confused:

I too am one of those "likes to do it all" tho my squad is really more a fighter group. Im ranked what, someplace in the 300's. This by no means discribes "how good a pilot I am" because Im an average pilot at best, but it does show I do a bit of everything, I go where the fun is.

Getting 10 guys together can be just as much fun as 50, and when you run into 6 defenders with a bit of alt, your in for a heavy fight. The fun is still there, the challange is now there more so, and this will lead to "memorible fights", of course this MY idea of Epic, tho it could be yours too.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 18, 2006, 09:06:39 PM
He's got to be trolling. Never believe anything from anyone who complains about roughly even numbers on all sides.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: vorticon on September 18, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
"Seems the "pure fighter guys" won out over the "We like to do everything crowd"..."


seems to me, that other than upping with 50 other guys to run a missun... and lets face it, you only need 10-15 to capture a base, and your when your 50 man missun hits the other 50 man missun, your not going to see or engage more than 10-15 of them before you die or run anyway...and with 250 in the late arena, theres a max of just over 80 per side, im certain that if everyone in the late arena wanted to be in a big missun, as you seem to be claiming they most certainly do, you could easily orginize and run one...and theres a helluva lot more to everything than just missions and furballing.

"5 guys attack a 50 man mission and get squashed and you are complaining about getting shot down"

hitech makes one change, and those 5 guys and 10-20 of your mission guys go and do, or at least try and do something else - and your complaining about HITECH changing how people play?

you have more options for doing everything than ever before, and theres a lot more to the game than just furballing and base-capture, hell furballers rely on base capture to move the furball around a bit, wether they admit it or not, they get bored fighting the same people over the same terrain all the time.

give the other gameplay and slower planes a try, at least-

whats the matter, mission boy? afraid you might kill something?

oh, and i just checked the arena numbers, there was just under 600 on, with about 53% in the latewar arenas, and 47% in the early and mid arenas...i figure this nearly 50-50 split is what it will look like most nights, with one or the other being larger depending, that hitech could safely raise the 250 cap to 350.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 999000 on September 18, 2006, 09:25:42 PM
Say hub, People have asked you this before ....  and I'm not sure if I missed it or what? but what is your game ID?..someone said you have flown -0- hours for months...but that must be a mistake because you have alot to say.  So help me out.... what is your game ID.?....and if its proprietary data I'll understand 999000 my ID of course is 999000
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 18, 2006, 09:31:06 PM
Whats that got to do with anything? I havent flown in months either, does that mean that I dont have as much say as someone who flies 200hrs?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: E25280 on September 18, 2006, 09:33:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 999000
Say hub, People have asked you this before ....  and I'm not sure if I missed it or what? but what is your game ID?..someone said you have flown -0- hours for months...but that must be a mistake because you have alot to say.  So help me out.... what is your game ID.?....and if its proprietary data I'll understand 999000 my ID of course is 999000
Try Hubks.  But he stopped playing late last month.  Obviously the catalyst for change . . .
Title: Pining for the Horde . . .
Post by: E25280 on September 18, 2006, 09:37:42 PM
Cnuk: A28 is in deep now.
Moil:  Wow, this base is flat!
Cnuk: VH was the first thing down, should be back up in one minute.
Moil: OK, everyone get cleared up.  Meet at A28 tower.

Moil: I wouldnt if I were you . . .

Moil:  This place is capped.  Just hang tight.
Rokit:  Why havent they taken the base yet?
Cnuk:  Ghi killed three goons already  . . .

Deth whoa, nasty . . .
Rifle:  How many are out there?
Moil: Gotta be fifty at least.
Rogue:  Wont be for long . . .
Cnuk:  Thirty Seconds!
Moil:  We have everyone here?
Stud:  Just landing.

Stud:  Back.
Raptr:  Bout time.
Medc: fellas.  Whats up?
Moil: Base defense, A28.
Medc: Be right there.
Rukus: Troops dead A32, bailing . . .
Rifle:  Typhies, LA-7s, Ponies, Doras . . .
Rokit:  Town looks flat from here.  Dont see any friendlies airborne.
Moil: Copy that, Rokit.  I will need two to head for the city in case a goon gets through.
GHI:  Goon 4 dead.  Come on Bish, need help at A28.  Zone base!
Cnuk: VH UP!
Moil:  OK, GUNS UP! CLEAR THE SKIES!

Rifle: Uh-oh!  He needed that!
Moil: Fan out!  Keep the lead flying!
Stud: Typhie down.
Raptr:  190 dead.

Moil:  Get the Pony on the vulch!

Target: Darn assists . . .

Moil: Get the LA-7!

Cnuk: Heading to town . . .
Rifle: Following Cnuk.
Rukus: LA-7 down.
Deth: Typh diving . . . My turrets out!
Rokit: Typh down.
Moil: Keep up the fire!


Target: Im Down!
Medc:  Come on, 190, get some!
Rifle: Hes thinking about it . . .

Moil: Uh-oh!
Rokit: Muahahaha!
Deth: I think theyre breaking up!
Rukus:  Fighter hanger up!

Cnuk: Goon at the town! Still 1K out!

Rukus: Goons going to drop troops!
Target:  In on goon . . .  
Cnuk: Check 6 target!
Rukus: Typhy diving, Target!
Target: (silently counting troops exiting C-47 one, two, three) Almost there . . . (four)
Cnuk: Break, Target!
Target: (five, six too late for you!)



Target: (from tower) Did I get him?


Moil:  Another nice base defense, folks.  Well done.












Hordes are no problem.  In fact, theyre fun!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 18, 2006, 09:44:47 PM
The last time I actually played the game was.... um.... September 16, 2006.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: E25280 on September 18, 2006, 09:51:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
The last time I actually played the game was.... um.... September 16, 2006.
Thought you said you quit -- "News a lot of you want to hear" thread.  Sorry for misunderstanding.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 18, 2006, 10:00:01 PM
Unfortunately, he came back all too soon.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Rondar on September 18, 2006, 10:07:01 PM
Not to interfere with the griping you guys are doing at each other, but I'd like to gripe just a bit about the eny.  Most of the time in  Trinity map in the Mid war (I'm a Rook) we cant up a panzer because of eny.  Sure wish we could have something besides a t34 against the bombers in there and tigers on other side, let alone the panzers they get to up.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Meatwad on September 18, 2006, 10:15:33 PM
If there was a really massive raid to the likes of ww2, you would have so many crybabies here on the forums it would boggle your mind.  (100+ planes in a single mission)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kurt on September 19, 2006, 12:01:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by E25280
Thought you said you quit -- "News a lot of you want to hear" thread.  Sorry for misunderstanding.


He meant to call that thread 'I just want attention' ...

He spelled it incorrectly.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kurt on September 19, 2006, 12:02:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by scottydawg

(http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/waaaambulance-23284.jpg)
 


I bet George Michael drives that... I never liked him...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 19, 2006, 12:09:57 AM
I quit, and then opened an account upon learning of the changes HTC made. I hadn't liked the direction the game was heading, and, upon consideration, believed the change was a good idea. Some folks said they'd cancel their accounts to show HTC they didn't like the idea. I opened one to show that I did. Sue me.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: JB88 on September 19, 2006, 01:13:11 AM
seems alright, but alot quieter than i remember.  

is it just me or are people talking less?

:confused:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 19, 2006, 02:06:17 AM
In my experience, there's a lot less talking ****, and a lot more just playing the game. it's a bit weird at first, but it's kind of nice. tonight was 2 guys pursefighting for an hour, rosco offering tips to guys getting shot down, a few guys asking questions, a few logical replies, then more blessed silence. I suppose as people break the ice, the rest will warm up, but I have to say, it's a refreshing change from the norm, at least in the EWA.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SkyRock on September 19, 2006, 07:47:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
In my experience, there's a lot less talking ****, and a lot more just playing the game. it's a bit weird at first, but it's kind of nice. tonight was 2 guys pursefighting for an hour, rosco offering tips to guys getting shot down, a few guys asking questions, a few logical replies, then more blessed silence. I suppose as people break the ice, the rest will warm up, but I have to say, it's a refreshing change from the norm, at least in the EWA.
I find it just the way you described most of the time................ when you're not logged in!:noid
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 19, 2006, 07:52:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
In my experience, there's a lot less talking ****, and a lot more just playing the game. it's a bit weird at first, but it's kind of nice. tonight was 2 guys pursefighting for an hour, rosco offering tips to guys getting shot down, a few guys asking questions, a few logical replies, then more blessed silence. I suppose as people break the ice, the rest will warm up, but I have to say, it's a refreshing change from the norm, at least in the EWA.


I agree, I think it is because the fights are more skill-based and involved, when you get shot down it's usually not because you got cherry-picked or BnZ'ed at 500+ mph.  It's more of a SA based fight than an ACM fight in the EWA.  Doesn't mean I'm any good at either though ;)
Title: ho hum
Post by: yanksfan on September 19, 2006, 07:58:38 AM
Well, I do understand your running a bussiness and we are playing a game,is it the screwed up eny's that don't allow me to take out a panzer at times,is it the small boring maps that i have always hated, is it the 3 main arenas (main?), is it the communication difficultys, or am i just bored.
 i will admit that change and i don't get on well, but so far this just isn't fun.Seems the more players the more fun,might i suggest that rather then early, mid and late war arenas, you set up fighter freindly and gv freindly arenas, add new gv's, add new bombers, fighters,put a pilot rescue mode in gv's add a rescue plane add an infantry squad that can auto attack gv's,placed at towns or where ever let them last on the ground like supplys do for a given period of time.
 there are alot of things you can do to keep it fresh.and to grow.Have a european ,pacific arenas with only those plane which went aganst each other.
 increase the player numbers to each arena,add feachers to new arenas not available in others,i know these are growing pains,everyone has an opinion,but i haven't heard anyone in any arena say "oh golly this is great" i have heard alot,most griping about it,thats not good.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 19, 2006, 08:18:33 AM
raider..  I have never seen you in the game so you must go by something other than raider179...

But... I seriously doubt that you fly "alone" to attack the horde  And if you fly at all by yourself I doubt that you do it in anything less than a spit 16 or lala...

I also flew in the MA so don't blow smoke... the whordes did not fight each other... they avoided each other....  30-50 guys in the whorde all milkrunning fields in planes that could do it with 5 or 6...  runway diving in planes that the ack couldn't hit because they were too fast...  They didn't attack other whordes and everyone knows it..  the first thing they want down in the radar so they can sneak all those guys into an undefended base... if they ever were to meet any opposition they would be slaughtered and you know it.

slum behavior...  gameing the game.... the limit for squads was 32 but the griefers had to game it... had to figure out a way to whorde fields with 90 of their closest mouse weilding friends and lovers...  now you are crying because you forced a fix.  A fix for behavior that only a small percentage of people approved of.

You have stated what you like to do and it makes it impossible for a new person to enjoy this game or... anyone who like air combat sims.  

I would say that more people in the mega squads than you know will be dropping out when they see how fun real gameplay can be...  I would say that they are populating the LW arena because they are forced to be by squad affiliation...

the mega squads are bad for the game.   They are bad for the players and the gameplay and my guess is... they were beggining to impact HTC's bussines.   Now, they think that they can bully things back the way they were the same way they take undefended fields.

The mega squads had/have no real purpose other than to grief the game...  

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 19, 2006, 11:16:20 AM
Been away for a while but had my first taste of the new setup last night.

Impressions -
1) It has fractured the community more than ENY or any other issue has.
2) The ENY limits swing WILDY.
3) Caps are too low.

Overall, don't think I like it -

I miss the HUGE mega furballs that occured in the 'old' MA.
Never get another Cat 5 furball in the current setup.

Having to try again and again to get into an arena to join the squad for squad night sucks.

Dunno, something is missing now. (not talking about the hoards).

Maybe as has been suggested -
Have EW, MW arenas as they are currently setup.
Re-instate the old MA under its previous setup.
See what happens, and should keep EVERYONE happy.

[edit] If things stay this way there's no reason why HQ shouldn't go back to its 'old' settings
i.e. Partly and fully down, old hardness settings.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 96Delta on September 19, 2006, 01:11:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Iron_Cross
Hitech has killed that 800 Lb. gorilla named HORDE, and the only people complaining are the parasites that fed off it.


This kinda makes sense to me.
Always got that feeling in the MA.

It reminded me of a swarm of flys just buzzing around.
One enemy with 22 guys chasing him.
No use of over half the planeset.
No tactics..just arcade.

I now fly exclusively in the Early war arena.
Lots of good dogfights in there.  Most fur I've
see was like 15 total combatants including
all sides.  MUCH more historical than the megahordes
in the old (good riddens) MA.

And the caliber of character is unbvelievable now.
I feel like I've found an adult simulation where the
cooperative efforts add a new dimension to the
game that I seldom experienced in the MA.

To be blunt, AH now seems like a new game
to me.  Its is certainly more fair now.  A good
pilot can hold his own against a comparably
matched enemy combatant.  No more P-40
vs. LA7.

I, for one, LOVE the new setup.  Thank you.
I'm finally learning how to dogfight.  :D

David "96Delta"
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Guppy35 on September 19, 2006, 01:28:58 PM
Points to the post above.  If this isn't proof it's working, nothing is :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 96Delta on September 19, 2006, 01:29:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ByeBye
Anyone have a better idea than mine?

1. leave the original MA exactly the way it was, but no cap

2. have the EW and MW just as they are now, except add duplicate arenas after 90% of 250 cap.


Even Lazs should approve.


Ya gotta have a CAP in all arenas.
Its essential to keep people from "hoarding" the game.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 96Delta on September 19, 2006, 01:30:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Points to the post above.  If this isn't proof it's working, nothing is :)


Come on into the EW Guppy.
They got a P-38 for ya to fly in there.

Hope to cross paths with ya there.  ;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 19, 2006, 01:42:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 96Delta
Ya gotta have a CAP in all arenas.
Its essential to keep people from "hoarding" the game.


Why?

No-one would be forcing people into an uncapped arena, it would be a choice.

Whereas currently you are coerced.

Or is it that if there was an uncapped MA again, most people would be in there, thus showing the current set-up is unfavourable?
Never know for sure unless it is at least trialled for a few weeks.

In the current setup something has been lost, and I can't quite put my finger on it yet. (no it's not the hoards).
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: soupcan on September 19, 2006, 01:45:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th



Maybe as has been suggested -
Have EW, MW arenas as they are currently setup.
Re-instate the old MA under its previous setup.
See what happens, and should keep EVERYONE happy.



sure why not?

heck bump the cap to 1000 if u like on the old MA..........

i'd be willing to bet money that those who are currently enjoying
the EW and MW will not be logging into the "old"MA.

for myself i have not been to the LW since i "discovered" the MW.:aok
i feel confident that HTC will find a good formula for dealing with the ENV
issues soon.

until then i will deal with the ENV situation  and enjoy its pleasant
surprizes.................... ........
............... such as finding out that u can bring down a P38G in a Hurri1


:D
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Killjoy2 on September 19, 2006, 02:17:12 PM
I again suggest one arena with three features.

Fighter Town

Tank Town

Historical Town

Historical town gives us early war and mid war setups.  You could even set it for historical rivals.  How difficult is this?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 19, 2006, 02:24:06 PM
I don't really know but when we had numbers of 200 or so in the old MA we had small maps.   I don't know what the limit is but when we got much over that....

The small maps were dumped.   I would think that much over 250 and the arenas would need to do the same as before and go to the big maps. sooo...

You would have big maps in the LW and small in the EW and MW...  unless they became over 250....  I guess the point is that the small maps work for 0-250 but not well for over that...

conversly, the large maps don't work all that great for 0-250...  It would be reall lonely for LW guys on any time other than peak with 50-100 guys on...

seems the maps are the bottleneck... you can't raise the limit too much in any of the arenas with small maps and none seem to draw enough players to justify large maps all the time soooo...  seems HTC came up with a pretty good comprimise with limits.  

That is not to say that the limits are at max now.  I wouldn't know what that would be.   Either way... not my decision.

I tend to think tho that if you raise the limits in the LW you will encourage the lousy game play and have people desert it for what is now...  viable options of good gameplay in the mid and early war arenas.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 19, 2006, 02:30:04 PM
lazs et al,

If I'm not mistaken, the primary reason for the changes aside from the 'unhealthiness' of the MA was for future expansion.

If there are small maps and big maps, why can't there be medium maps, ones that would work better for 250-400 users?  Or even dynamic maps that would expand or contract depending on the arena population?  I would venture to guess that the arena spawning that occurs when an arena fills up is just a stopgap measure until they all start to get busy on a regular basis (or one is dropped and thothers fill in the gap) and then perhaps all caps would go up simultaneously...  just a wild guess on my part, but it kinda makes sense to me.

edit:  the concept of dynamic map sizing is kind of intriguing, isn't it?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 19, 2006, 02:52:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 96Delta
I now fly exclusively in the Early war arena.
Lots of good dogfights in there.  Most fur I've
see was like 15 total combatants including
all sides.  MUCH more historical than the megahordes
in the old (good riddens) MA.

 How so?
Quote
Originally posted by 96Delta

And the caliber of character is unbvelievable now.
I feel like I've found an adult simulation where the
cooperative efforts add a new dimension to the
game that I seldom experienced in the MA.


 Selective reading no doubt. I have seen the same ridecule in the EW and the LW as we seen in MA of old. Will film next time and be sure to enlighten you. ;)
 While true is is to much less extent, give it time as the numbers are still relatively low at this time.

Quote
Originally posted by 96Delta

I, for one, LOVE the new setup.  Thank you.
I'm finally learning how to dogfight.  :D

David "96Delta"

 Ignorance (or blindness) is bliss so it has been said.
 But if it makes you happy, that is a good thing.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 19, 2006, 03:09:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I don't really know but when we had numbers of 200 or so in the old MA we had small maps.   I don't know what the limit is but when we got much over that....

The small maps were dumped.   I would think that much over 250 and the arenas would need to do the same as before and go to the big maps. sooo...

You would have big maps in the LW and small in the EW and MW...  unless they became over 250....  I guess the point is that the small maps work for 0-250 but not well for over that...

conversly, the large maps don't work all that great for 0-250...  It would be reall lonely for LW guys on any time other than peak with 50-100 guys on...

seems the maps are the bottleneck... you can't raise the limit too much in any of the arenas with small maps and none seem to draw enough players to justify large maps all the time soooo...  seems HTC came up with a pretty good comprimise with limits.  

That is not to say that the limits are at max now.  I wouldn't know what that would be.   Either way... not my decision.

I tend to think tho that if you raise the limits in the LW you will encourage the lousy game play and have people desert it for what is now...  viable options of good gameplay in the mid and early war arenas.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

 
 This is his idea of proper paragraphing :rolleyes:  :rofl

 I am not sure why map size matters in any event other than over population. Even 10 players can fight on a large map.

 There are two scenarios that come to mind where maps are concerned.

1. Too small, and there is no elbow room to get creative or even off the runway. (Yes vulching is alive and well in ALL the new arenas.)

   This of course should be fine with Laz from reading all his post's

2. Too large and the map cant be reset.

   Again should be fine with Laz.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 19, 2006, 03:20:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

I tend to think tho that if you raise the limits in the LW you will encourage the lousy game play and have people desert it for what is now...  viable options of good gameplay in the mid and early war arenas.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


In that case an unlimited cap on the LW arena shouldn't be a problem.
You don't like it you can go to another arena.
I would rather have choice than none at all.

Of course your view of "good gameplay" doesn't neccesarily co-incide with someone elses view.

LW seems to be the biggest used, so it would seem logical that it would need either a much higher limit or unlimited cap.

Unusual that this is really the only major change that has been foisted on us unannouced.
Can't recall anything as major as this change not being announced ahead of time.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Panzullo on September 19, 2006, 03:53:11 PM
It appears to me the new change has destroyed our "the customer" ability to fly what type of plane and when we want to fly. Mostly if the "customer" has grown accustom to any type or mode of flying. New players wont notice this and will just integrate.

For the longer term players here a year or longer and the ones that have formed friendships in the squads it has destroyed the atmosphere.

The lone reclusive flyers and people that have no interest in the strategic part of the game "base captures" will not notice the social change and wonder why the complaints are still coming in.      

With the lack of time to play the game in general, the time we do have to play is consumed with:
 
1. dealing with the dreaded ENY
2. Flying the entire map looking for fights
3. "Most Important" Unable to fly with squadies      

Not blaming HTC for running the business the way they see or feel works best for them, But the method it was done appears HTC is looking for mass influx related to the new movie "Fly Boys" due to be released and will focus on the new accounts that have no clue of the old arena.

HTC throw us a bone do something to make the server situation better the mini micro warps and freezes are out of hand.

Herbalife
http://www.anthemwellness.com
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 19, 2006, 04:14:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Panzullo
It appears to me the new change has destroyed our "the customer" ability to fly what type of plane and when we want to fly. Mostly if the "customer" has grown accustom to any type or mode of flying. New players wont notice this and will just integrate.

For the longer term players here a year or longer and the ones that have formed friendships in the squads it has destroyed the atmosphere.

The lone reclusive flyers and people that have no interest in the strategic part of the game "base captures" will not notice the social change and wonder why the complaints are still coming in.      

With the lack of time to play the game in general, the time we do have to play is consumed with:
 
1. dealing with the dreaded ENY
2. Flying the entire map looking for fights
3. "Most Important" Unable to fly with squadies      

Not blaming HTC for running the business the way they see or feel works best for them, But the method it was done appears HTC is looking for mass influx related to the new movie "Fly Boys" due to be released and will focus on the new accounts that have no clue of the old arena.

HTC throw us a bone do something to make the server situation better the mini micro warps and freezes are out of hand.

Herbalife
http://www.anthemwellness.com


First of all, please take the blatant commercial advertisement out of your signature.  That's just lame and probably against the terms of use for the board.

Second, I think your conjecture that this is in some way related to an unreleased WWI movie is kind of a stretch, i.e. silly (in case you missed it in 6th grade history, there were TWO world wars).  I wonder if they changed the game right before 'Pearl Harbor'?  Or 'Saving Private Ryan'?  Kinda doubt it.  I don't understand why people can't just read what HTC wrote about the reasons for the changes, ACCEPT IT, and adapt and keep playing or move on to something else.  These conspiracy theories are getting seriously stupid.


It's not like we're now flying bananas or donuts in CandyLand, the changes aren't that huge, get a grip!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: DipStick on September 19, 2006, 04:33:11 PM
Deleted
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 19, 2006, 04:33:31 PM
For those concerned about the ENY, and the changes' effects on large squads, something to consider.....


Change is GOING to happen, its a fundamental characteristic of living things. Since any change affects us differently, there's going to be natural tensions.

In groups, the best solutions are those that negotiate a balance between competing priorities, so that neither is completely happy and neither is really mad.

So the goal here should be to find a way that adequately meets all our needs. The problems coming up most are large squad effects and ENY effects


HT has said smaller arenas help people get to know each other. Large squads -- that (probably) know their members well have trouble flying together. Is there a way that both needs can be met? Sure!

Think about a pickup football game. When a bunch of friends get together for a fun time, do they all expect to be on the same side? Do you get 20 guys all on the same side of the ball becaiuse "we're friends"? Ridiculous! Tehy play each other, they trry to best each other, they complement good plays. And they have fun doing it.

Same thing would work here. That solution can meet everyone's needs. Megasquads can go into "scrimmage" mode and have a blast, if they're willing to be just a little flexible. Doing that helps everyone else too, and as HT has said, ebery game starts with even sides.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: DipStick on September 19, 2006, 04:37:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 96Delta
It reminded me of a swarm of flys just buzzing around.
One enemy with 22 guys chasing him.
No use of over half the planeset.
No tactics..just arcade.

Main reason I quit. Sure tempted to pop in and see how it's looking. The squad seems pleased.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 19, 2006, 04:48:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
raider..  I have never seen you in the game so you must go by something other than raider179...

But... I seriously doubt that you fly "alone" to attack the horde  And if you fly at all by yourself I doubt that you do it in anything less than a spit 16 or lala...

 


FatSacks...

I never fly spits and only rarely get into an LA7... Mostly fly bombers, 110's, C47s, F4-D's and The dora, although I do like the ki-84 on occasion...

So take your "serious doubt" and stick it up your FM2...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 19, 2006, 04:51:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
For those concerned about the ENY, and the changes' effects on large squads, something to consider.....


Change is GOING to happen, its a fundamental characteristic of living things. Since any change affects us differently, there's going to be natural tensions.

In groups, the best solutions are those that negotiate a balance between competing priorities, so that neither is completely happy and neither is really mad.

So the goal here should be to find a way that adequately meets all our needs. The problems coming up most are large squad effects and ENY effects


HT has said smaller arenas help people get to know each other. Large squads -- that (probably) know their members well have trouble flying together. Is there a way that both needs can be met? Sure!

Think about a pickup football game. When a bunch of friends get together for a fun time, do they all expect to be on the same side? Do you get 20 guys all on the same side of the ball becaiuse "we're friends"? Ridiculous! Tehy play each other, they trry to best each other, they complement good plays. And they have fun doing it.

Same thing would work here. That solution can meet everyone's needs. Megasquads can go into "scrimmage" mode and have a blast, if they're willing to be just a little flexible. Doing that helps everyone else too, and as HT has said, ebery game starts with even sides.


Try looking at it from the other side -

1) Game is never, EVER, EVER going to have even sides, nature of the beast.
2) Most squads prefer to fight together, unless in the DA for a laugh.
3) There isn't even a middle ground in the current setup - people either like or hate it.
4) It just doesn't affect mega squads, real pain trying to log in to be a part of SQUAD NIGHT, to keep getting the host connection lost message. (only 10 squaddies on)

We've gone from an MA with no choice, to multiple arenas with coerced/no choices.

Fixed easily by removing the cap on the LW arena. You then have a choice.
Hell, remove the cap on all arenas, see what the community goes for.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Panzullo on September 19, 2006, 05:02:34 PM
Deleted=Thrown out sliding into homeplate!


Herblife
http://www.anthemwellness.com
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Shuffler on September 19, 2006, 05:26:55 PM
Hitech is adjusting....

The difference between working at a company and owning one...
being willing to take that big step...

:aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 19, 2006, 06:32:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Panzullo
Mostly if the "customer" has grown accustom to any type or mode of flying. New players wont notice this and will just integrate.

For the longer term players here a year or longer and the ones that have formed friendships in the squads it has destroyed the atmosphere.

-=SNIPPAGE=-

But the method it was done appears HTC is looking for mass influx related to the new movie "Fly Boys" due to be released and will focus on the new accounts that have no clue of the old arena.


Just have to mention the irony I see here in what you posted.

See, many of us had grown accustomed to having "fights" in AH against human opponents that maneuvered and shot back not just toolsheds. I'd say if you came to AH within the last three to four years that you are the one's who don't know how it used to be, and that it is you who have intergrated into the horde mentality, which we real old timers see as "destroying the atmosphere" (your term). There were three influxes of people into AH; first one was the slow demise of WB, second was the faster demise of AW, third was the influx from the commercials on the history/military channels. Each influx brought change to the environment of the MA, and gameplay slowly but steadilly degraded, until last week when it was put back to the way it used to be (for a large part).

There is still the ability to up any plane you want in the LW arena as long as your chesspeice does not significantly outnumber the other chesspeices. You really have not lost anything, you are being coerced into learning a new way to play is all.

(note: I think the side-switching limits need to be relaxed drastically since you can get into an ENY problem through no fault of your own and are restricted from changing sides to even things out)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 19, 2006, 07:43:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
Just have to mention the irony I see here in what you posted.

See, many of us had grown accustomed to having "fights" in AH against human opponents that maneuvered and shot back not just toolsheds. I'd say if you came to AH within the last three to four years that you are the one's who don't know how it used to be, and that it is you who have intergrated into the horde mentality, which we real old timers see as "destroying the atmosphere" (your term). There were three influxes of people into AH; first one was the slow demise of WB, second was the faster demise of AW, third was the influx from the commercials on the history/military channels. Each influx brought change to the environment of the MA, and gameplay slowly but steadilly degraded, until last week when it was put back to the way it used to be (for a large part).

There is still the ability to up any plane you want in the LW arena as long as your chesspeice does not significantly outnumber the other chesspeices. You really have not lost anything, you are being coerced into learning a new way to play is all.

(note: I think the side-switching limits need to be relaxed drastically since you can get into an ENY problem through no fault of your own and are restricted from changing sides to even things out)


Yup it's all my fault, I seen the commercial about 4 years ago.

How about just removing the cap which is contributing to the imbalance.

Think about it -
Guys who would normally log off to go do something probably now go AFK for exteneded periods in case they can't get back in.
Works against both the high and low numbered teams.

Or whats next -
HOST: You have now been in this arena too long and are being logged out.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: JB88 on September 19, 2006, 07:43:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert

(note: I think the side-switching limits need to be relaxed drastically since you can get into an ENY problem through no fault of your own and are restricted from changing sides to even things out)


when you're a jet, you're a jet to the end.

well, no, actually, i agree on the side switch part...but i can also see where that might cause intelligence issues.

schitzo running around...i'm zee german, no, i am britsh, no, wait...uh...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: pluck on September 19, 2006, 07:49:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th


Or whats next -
HOST: You have now been in this arena too long and are being logged out.


good idea, there are games that will log you out for inactivity.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: bj229r on September 19, 2006, 08:07:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Killjoy2
I again suggest one arena with three features.

Fighter Town

Tank Town

Historical Town

Historical town gives us early war and mid war setups.  You could even set it for historical rivals.  How difficult is this?


The dedicated dweeb-squads would bring in Lancs and flatten everything that wasnt dedicated to battling buildings and undefended bases
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SuperDud on September 19, 2006, 08:12:22 PM
I like the new set up. Those who say it'll destroy the community either:

A) Never played AW which had the best communtiy I've ever seen.

B) Are poopy heads.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 19, 2006, 08:14:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Panzullo
Deleted=Thrown out sliding into homeplate!


Herblife
http://www.iamabigloser.com


Man you either have big brass balls or are mind-blowingly stupid, going back in and re-editing something hitech deleted.

See ya.
Title: HTC Please READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: RipT327 on September 19, 2006, 08:58:11 PM
OK HTC I say you need to FIX this Crap Or I and im sure a Good chunk of others WILL TAKE THEIR SCATTAGORIES and Play Somewhere Else!  I Pay just like everyone else, WHY CANT I GET INTO the Arena I would like to Join.  I dont want to go fly in the Early Arena cuz I dont want to SEE 100 Hurricaines flyin around. I dont want to fly in Mid Arena cuz there are only 50 people on.  I want into the Late arena 1  Obviously because its just like MA except it can only HOld 250 players but...........Of course it is maxed out and can't get in and Low and behold when you try and join it ,, it says HOST CONNECTION Loss and CLoses out the GAME how GAY is that?
And I dont want to fly in Late Arena 2 cuz why again 50 players BORING!!!!
I have been playing this game faithfully EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR 2yrs now.  This is the Worst thing I have seen done to this AWESOME GAME> Please keep reading that was my VENT! Now on with some points and Measures/

But Since this new Format I see a decrease in the number of players by atleast  150 players this cant be good for business.  The majority of Players want to fly in an arena where all available planes are available. The numbers in the Late arena PROVE That! why Sacrifice the the Majority for 150 subscribers that want to fly their little slow no killin give me assists planes.  What happend to the dayz of MAJORITY RULES is this a thing of the past?  

On another note I found it to be very discouraging to enter the Mid arena just for the TT map.  To get in there after the first time I was killed I get a minimum 10 eny And I cant even Up a Panzer so I have to up a t34 which of course doesnt stand a chance against the 3 panzers and 5 tigers we are up against. then I finally get panzer back for a few kills then another death low and behold a minimum of 20 ENY  there were less than 60 people in the arena we had 28, knits had 17 and bish had 21 we were the only ones with ENY cap. WTF is that!  I Play This game for a good time If I wanted put up with a bunch of hassle and discouragement I would be in the living ROOM with my WIFE :) But on a serious note I dont want to Leave this GAME cuz im addicted to it and I enjoy hangin out with Online buddies.  Now had this been a Free game Then I would feel like I have no say in what happens to it.  But WE the Paying Customers whatever the cost .50 cents per day or 50 dollars a day we are still paying customers.  Customer Service is my Occupation by choice.  And as far as I can see Saying This is for the greater Good of "OUR" HTC  Game we dont care if we lose one veteren to 5 Newbs that is not Customer Service..Who do you think brings in the Newbs I bet its safe to Say its the Vets Talking to there Freinds...  Yes Games Evolve Yes Some cant handle Change Yes Change is Good but not when it Discourages or Aggravates We are People just tryin to have a good time.  If people want to fly Old planes against Old planes let them do it on another server but why Sacrifice the Majority of the Other playes that dont care about What year a Plane was Used  MOST of us dont just fly one plane day in and Day out.  Alot of us might fly a Hurricaine one minute then jump in a Niki or a Zeke the next etc etc.  We just want an action packed game that gives a thrill a minute and challenges us in all directions.  A good virtual pilot will adapt and overcome disadvantages whether  it be me flyin an A6m against an La 7 I live for those moments when I get to Kill that la7 with my Zeke and brag about it to my Friends.

   All in all this is still the best Flyin  game on the NET.  However there really needs to be some reconsideration of the Latest Changes.  I say Screw the Jury and Listen to the PEOPLE!
Title: Side Switching
Post by: RipT327 on September 19, 2006, 09:03:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
well, no, actually, i agree on the side switch part...but i can also see where that might cause intelligence issues.




I say Side switching is Horrible.  Let us Choose our Country at the beginning of a Tour or at every new start of a map. Then thats it your stuck with your choice no matter what. Fight for the reset or Live with your own demise and Choice.  It is an intelligence issue it sucks to know you have some people that change to another side before they log off for the night. Then Return 2morrow to make notes of where things are such as CV's Missions then Change sides and go on a STATS padding Venture. It is weak and very Unhonorable to do this but im sorry it happens QUITE frequently. :(
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Overlag on September 19, 2006, 09:21:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
I like the new set up. Those who say it'll destroy the community either:

A) Never played AW which had the best communtiy I've ever seen.

B) Are poopy heads.


:rolleyes:

someone has a different opinium to you and they are poopy heads?

please.


200 player cap = milk runners heaven...... so many undefended bases its great, not to mention euro game play time when theres a max of 60 people online, divided by 3 arenas and 3 sides, its a very very sad idea of a multiplayer game when you cant FIND anyone
Title: Scottydawg
Post by: Panzullo on September 19, 2006, 09:41:16 PM
scottydawg

Grow up and get your nose out of everyones ***. Also try writing something worth reading all your posts sound like an angry Democrats rant!  

Herblife
http://www.anthemwellness.com
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Toad on September 19, 2006, 09:43:06 PM
HT and Company:

Finally got my stick working. Just flew EW.

All I can say is THANK YOU!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: bj229r on September 19, 2006, 10:07:01 PM
Ok...have my first complaint. Flew LW for 1st time tonite...P47N's nmy is same as LA7?--4 kills = 1.6 perks with Rooks outnumbed 100+ to 70+ to 60somethin. Aside from that, does it seem like lethality is lessened in EW? Bursts from 6-.50 cal planes just dont take down stuff like they would in MA--I assume a Browning 50 in 1942 is same as 1945?
Title: It was our stagnant slum
Post by: snakeplissken on September 19, 2006, 10:09:33 PM
Hey Pyro, I almost never post.  Maybe you will listen to a calmer voice.  You got to put it back man.  The squads never fly together.  When we do fly the eny keeps us from upping the planes we want.  I can't get into late war so I have to log into Late2 with 20 guys and no squaddies.  Here's what you forgot. You have invented and you own.... darts.  The game is something I do to log on at nite and hang with my buds.  You have a chatroom with something to do.  And now you have limited it.  Yeah, it may have been in your words a stagnant slum, but it was ours.  Please , put it back.  Here's the deal.  There were no T34's in early war.  Make some Crusaders and Lee/Grants and He111's.  Turn Midwar back into the MA with limits of 750.  Keep late war but make it Korea with Yak's with 23mm's, F8 Bearcats, Mig 15's, F86's and B29's.  You won't be able to spend all the profit! - Pliss
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Toad on September 19, 2006, 10:10:05 PM
.50's on the Wildcat seemed to work normally in EW.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 20, 2006, 12:06:43 AM
Toad lies. EW lethality changes at random so that the disgruntled LW crowd will have something else to freak out about.
Title: RIPT327 IS MY NEW HERO
Post by: yanksfan on September 20, 2006, 05:56:20 AM
Wow, ript327 put in words what i have been hearing all over the ma, um,LW, i hate even saying LW, give em what they want,take the limits off the LW, fix the eny,stop trying to tell me this is good when it is no fun anymore, i'll bet i haven't played more then 3 hours total since this change, the maps are boring, the game is boring without large numbers, the reason the ma,ummmpppffff Lw is always full is thats what most people want, face it, fix it!
Title: Re: It was our stagnant slum
Post by: Shifty on September 20, 2006, 06:00:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by snakeplissken
Hey Pyro, I almost never post.  Maybe you will listen to a calmer voice.  You got to put it back man.  



Calmer huh? :lol
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: gatt on September 20, 2006, 06:13:10 AM
Just out of curiosity: no one is posting about an early war arena with 190A-5, Spitfire IX and P-38 in the planeset. Nothing weird for you?

Our early war arena suffers from two things: a lack of 1940-41 aircraft and, paradoxically, "only" 3 arenas. If we had a 4th arena and enuff aircraft we could have a decent 1940-41 plane set: I mean from the Battle of France, thru the Battle of Britain to the 1941 clash over South England, western France, North Africa and early Pacific. Now, if I do manage to enter the EWA and find Spitfires IX and 190A-5 (even highly perked) with no free 109G-2 I say to myself: WTF, this is worst than Warbirds' RPS!

And no, I dont want a 4th arena. A Main, an AvA, a Duel and regular scenarios were enuff, IMHO. I was just pointing out how our planeset was not ready for such a change.  

Another thing: 3 years waiting for the real TOD and what I found back from holidays? A weird 3 capped little mains, with ENY, system.

The danger for the future of AH2 is much more higher in this new system than in the old Main, regularly held scenarios, the TOD (is still there and alive?), the AvA, the Duel, a complete plane set and the new much needed graphics for many a/c. All things *needed* and (for the most part) *promised*.

What I dont understand is if this new system is a stop gap, a weak tentative, or a permanent solution to the lack of resources for new planes, graphics and TOD.
Title: Re: HTC Please READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: The Fugitive on September 20, 2006, 06:27:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RipT327
OK HTC I say you need to FIX this Crap Or I and im sure a Good chunk of others WILL TAKE THEIR SCATTAGORIES and Play Somewhere Else!  I Pay just like everyone else, WHY CANT I GET INTO the Arena I would like to Join.  I dont want to go fly in the Early Arena cuz I dont want to SEE 100 Hurricaines flyin around. I dont want to fly in Mid Arena cuz there are only 50 people on.  I want into the Late arena 1  Obviously because its just like MA except it can only HOld 250 players but...........Of course it is maxed out and can't get in and Low and behold when you try and join it ,, it says HOST CONNECTION Loss and CLoses out the GAME how GAY is that?
And I dont want to fly in Late Arena 2 cuz why again 50 players BORING!!!!
I have been playing this game faithfully EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR 2yrs now.  This is the Worst thing I have seen done to this AWESOME GAME> Please keep reading that was my VENT! Now on with some points and Measures/

But Since this new Format I see a decrease in the number of players by atleast  150 players this cant be good for business.  The majority of Players want to fly in an arena where all available planes are available. The numbers in the Late arena PROVE That! why Sacrifice the the Majority for 150 subscribers that want to fly their little slow no killin give me assists planes.  What happend to the dayz of MAJORITY RULES is this a thing of the past?  

On another note I found it to be very discouraging to enter the Mid arena just for the TT map.  To get in there after the first time I was killed I get a minimum 10 eny And I cant even Up a Panzer so I have to up a t34 which of course doesnt stand a chance against the 3 panzers and 5 tigers we are up against. then I finally get panzer back for a few kills then another death low and behold a minimum of 20 ENY  there were less than 60 people in the arena we had 28, knits had 17 and bish had 21 we were the only ones with ENY cap. WTF is that!  I Play This game for a good time If I wanted put up with a bunch of hassle and discouragement I would be in the living ROOM with my WIFE :) But on a serious note I dont want to Leave this GAME cuz im addicted to it and I enjoy hangin out with Online buddies.  Now had this been a Free game Then I would feel like I have no say in what happens to it.  But WE the Paying Customers whatever the cost .50 cents per day or 50 dollars a day we are still paying customers.  Customer Service is my Occupation by choice.  And as far as I can see Saying This is for the greater Good of "OUR" HTC  Game we dont care if we lose one veteren to 5 Newbs that is not Customer Service..Who do you think brings in the Newbs I bet its safe to Say its the Vets Talking to there Freinds...  Yes Games Evolve Yes Some cant handle Change Yes Change is Good but not when it Discourages or Aggravates We are People just tryin to have a good time.  If people want to fly Old planes against Old planes let them do it on another server but why Sacrifice the Majority of the Other playes that dont care about What year a Plane was Used  MOST of us dont just fly one plane day in and Day out.  Alot of us might fly a Hurricaine one minute then jump in a Niki or a Zeke the next etc etc.  We just want an action packed game that gives a thrill a minute and challenges us in all directions.  A good virtual pilot will adapt and overcome disadvantages whether  it be me flyin an A6m against an La 7 I live for those moments when I get to Kill that la7 with my Zeke and brag about it to my Friends.

   All in all this is still the best Flyin  game on the NET.  However there really needs to be some reconsideration of the Latest Changes.  I say Screw the Jury and Listen to the PEOPLE!



LOL!!! When will you guys learn???? "I'm going to take my $15 and go someplace else" Please do !!! jeez all the whining and complaining! I can understand you not likeing the changes, but a simple "I agree with xxxxx" is enough.

I havn't seen this huge number drop your talking about. There is still the same 400-500 people on when I log on. Of course if your getting other information 999 is going to be upset :lol

If you love this game, are addicted to it as you say, then learn to adapt, find the fun in what you have. Your only other choice is to leave. Decide, and stop whining about it. Like Niki says "Just do it!"
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: stephen on September 20, 2006, 06:35:27 AM
Late war doesnt suck now, but they have lowerd the total number of players allowed, really dont see how this helps anybody, sure early war is a nice distraction, what I have seen is that my country cant raise enough planes to either stop the other teams from getting a base, or capture a base...ive got a great idea though, two words, ROLLING PLANESET, devide the months into thirds and allow only that era's planes.........geez im a brainy one.:aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SuperDud on September 20, 2006, 06:58:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
:rolleyes:

someone has a different opinium to you and they are poopy heads?

please.


200 player cap = milk runners heaven...... so many undefended bases its great, not to mention euro game play time when theres a max of 60 people online, divided by 3 arenas and 3 sides, its a very very sad idea of a multiplayer game when you cant FIND anyone


JEEBUS!!! I guess we aren't allowed to have humor anymore??? Overlag I think you need to take a couple of deep breathes bud. Do you really think I would call someone a "poopy head" as a true insult? I have a much better vocabulary than that such as frog kisser!

Maybe it's the fact I forgot the smiley so here it is: :D. Just pretend that's in my other post.
Title: Re: Re: HTC Please READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: 4510 on September 20, 2006, 07:07:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by The Fugitive


If you love this game, are addicted to it as you say, then learn to adapt, find the fun in what you have. Your only other choice is to leave. Decide, and stop whining about it. Like Niki says "Just do it!"


Or in otherwords....

If you don't agree with me... and voice a different opinion.... then your opinion or request is nothing more than a whine.
Title: Re: Re: HTC Please READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Edbert on September 20, 2006, 07:12:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by The Fugitive
Of course if your getting other information 999 is going to be upset

:rofl

<--- grabs a kleenex to wipe coffee off his screen
Title: Re: HTC Please READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Grits on September 20, 2006, 07:53:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RipT327
What happend to the dayz of MAJORITY RULES is this a thing of the past?


AH is not a democracy. You have two choices, stay or go. Its HT's company and he can do with it what he wants. I know if I[/i] was him I sure wouldnt want us idiots making business decisions.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 20, 2006, 08:02:20 AM
Ding!

Grits wins the thread.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 20, 2006, 08:03:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by gatt
.........snip........

What I dont understand is if this new system is a stop gap, a weak tentative, or a permanent solution to the lack of resources for new planes, graphics and TOD.



Or, maybe it is what HTC said it is...and effort to maintain community by grouping a huge mass of players into neighborhoods.

And maybe the large influx expected is every bit as obvious. After all, TOD/CT has apparently entered late alpha development, and I bet closed beta isnt far behind. Once the fabled CT sees light of day, wouldnt it make sense to run an advertising blitz?
Title: Re: HTC Please READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Edbert on September 20, 2006, 08:04:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RipT327
What happend to the dayz of MAJORITY RULES is this a thing of the past?

Actually it "is a thing of" your imagination not "the past". HTC has never made business decisions based upon votes/polls/democracy, ask them if you don't beleive me. There is no human being on the planet with more experience making online flight sims than either Dale or Doug alone, and HTC has them COMBINED! Don't get me wrong, I am no sycophant, there are things that I wish were tweaked in my favor, has always been that way, probably always will be.

But at least I am honest enough to admit that the things I'd prefer to see done differently are because I am selfish and want the game catered to my tastes. Can you say the same about your wish list?


Edit: Simaril, I could obviously be wrong, but I beleive closed beta has been underway for some time, I know of one idivdual involved but wont name him until I get an okay.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 20, 2006, 08:13:18 AM
raider179 or "fatsack"   let's take a look at your stats so that we can put your complaints into perspective...

You fly buffs and use GV's a lot.    You wouldn't want to evern see a early war arena... nothing for you to do there.

But... we are talking about AC here so, let's look at what and how you fly.   You fly F4u and Dora and nik and Ki 84 and the spit 16....  

You get killed twice for every time that you kill someone but....  you play allmost 50 hours a month in fighters and.... you spend most of your time flying around doing nothing... you get 2 kills an hour... that means..

you do nothing most of the time.   I don' t think that you have much of a right to say that the old MA was fine.  I don't think that your style of gameplay is what most want in a combat air sim.

not singling you out but you are one of the few complaining that even gives his real handle.

It seems that the whorde is the safety net that a lot of the guys who spend hours a day flying think they need.

fatsack... get into the early war in a hurri or spit or whatever and I gurantee that you will get into a lot of fights that will improve your abilities to the point that when you meet another plane.... it won't be a two to one chance he will own you even tho you are in a better plane.

lazs
Public Realations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Dichotomy on September 20, 2006, 08:18:50 AM
ummm Laz... I get less than 2 kills an hour and I don't fly that way.... just sayin ;)

Oh that and I'm absolutely godawful at this game :)

PS.. Superdud is a poopyhead :p
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 20, 2006, 08:35:14 AM
well...  my point is that the guys complaining that there is nothing to do but fly around now never did anything anyway... when they did they drove tanks like mugzee and fluffs and when they flew...

They flew late war planes so that they could run away from fites and vultch.  they spent most of their time not fighting at all.   They haven't gotten any better cause they won't try.

They want late war big arenas to hide in with their girlfriends... when they get a kill it is of someone in a plane half as good as theirs tied up with 6 of their significant others.

They complain that the large squads are hurt.   What?   A "large" squad in AH is 32 guys... if you have more somehow then you are being a griefer and ruining the game.  

new guys don't stand a chance with these griefers on...  they never get a chance to play in a fair atmosphere.

I flew the FM2 in the old MA... couldn't get away from anyone.   I never met a type of plane that I didn't kill at least 2 to one... I ran kills into the 10-15 an hour range and I am saying that it sucked flying in the old MA.

I have more of a right to talk about how bad it was for early and slow planes than they do cause I did it and.... I could hold my own or better.   Iam probly doing worse in the EW arena but loving it more.

So what if I killed 10 la7's in the old MA for every one that killed me?   they were all the worst guys virtual pilots around... not much fun.   For my efforts in the old MA I got to dodge these morons and their whordes, killing the ones dumb enough to not just run away when they missed their sissy little high speed kick at me or allowed me to take off from the field they were capping.

The fights are at least 10 times better in the new ew and mw arenas.  

maybe the caps out to stay on anyway till the slum like behavior just dies out.

let new guys coming in see a variety of behavior.

I do feel sorry for those who fly at odd hours tho... something should be done for them but... they need to cooperate for now and go to the same arena and even up the sides.

I seen people in the EW switching (gasp!) chesspieces in order to have better gameplay...  

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Dichotomy on September 20, 2006, 08:37:01 AM
I know Laz :D

Just feeling a bit humorous this morning.. ignore me till I get grumpy again
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 20, 2006, 09:13:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

I do feel sorry for those who fly at odd hours tho... something should be done for them but... they need to cooperate for now and go to the same arena and even up the sides.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


I had an idea about dynamic map sizing...  not sure of the implementation, but a map that added or removed sector rings depending on population...

Bad idea?
Title: PEOPLE
Post by: jtdragon on September 20, 2006, 09:20:08 AM
I started plawing AH for flying, had fun, met new people, people who I liked to work with and new how to work togather, people working togather to take a base or map, it takes time to build groups like that.  We are losing that now with the caps on number of people, and 3 different areans. sides are very mismatched most of the times but trying force people to change side is wrong.

 
Now in the evening after 8pm EST you have a hard time getting on, (I like the LA because it plays like old MA when near full}. I have to to go to a different arena with people I not know and because we are having to move around now won't get to know them and how to work togather.:(

This is becoming a 1+1 game for a large part. I do not think I would have stay long if it had been like that when I started. I'm getting bored a times and that has not happened in the 4 years I've been here.

Things I would like to see happen, only have 2 arenas, EA/LA
400 cap
New maps designed for air, ground and sea operations
only two sides

Remember that our oversea friends play early morning and  daytime

to the people who do not like us saying we don't like things the way they are now, I've not read one person telling you to shut up so maybe ya'll are the ones that need to leave.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 20, 2006, 09:22:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
well...  my point is that the guys complaining that there is nothing to do but fly around now never did anything anyway... when they did they drove tanks like mugzee and fluffs and when they flew...

They flew late war planes so that they could run away from fites and vultch.  they spent most of their time not fighting at all.   They haven't gotten any better cause they won't try.

They want late war big arenas to hide in with their girlfriends... when they get a kill it is of someone in a plane half as good as theirs tied up with 6 of their significant others.

They complain that the large squads are hurt.   What?   A "large" squad in AH is 32 guys... if you have more somehow then you are being a griefer and ruining the game.  

new guys don't stand a chance with these griefers on...  they never get a chance to play in a fair atmosphere.

I flew the FM2 in the old MA... couldn't get away from anyone.   I never met a type of plane that I didn't kill at least 2 to one... I ran kills into the 10-15 an hour range and I am saying that it sucked flying in the old MA.

I have more of a right to talk about how bad it was for early and slow planes than they do cause I did it and.... I could hold my own or better.   Iam probly doing worse in the EW arena but loving it more.

So what if I killed 10 la7's in the old MA for every one that killed me?   they were all the worst guys virtual pilots around... not much fun.   For my efforts in the old MA I got to dodge these morons and their whordes, killing the ones dumb enough to not just run away when they missed their sissy little high speed kick at me or allowed me to take off from the field they were capping.

The fights are at least 10 times better in the new ew and mw arenas.  

maybe the caps out to stay on anyway till the slum like behavior just dies out.

let new guys coming in see a variety of behavior.

I do feel sorry for those who fly at odd hours tho... something should be done for them but... they need to cooperate for now and go to the same arena and even up the sides.

I seen people in the EW switching (gasp!) chesspieces in order to have better gameplay...  

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


Typical Laz - You drive a GV or fly 'fluffs' your somehow lower than him.
Sorry Laz it's attitudes like that that contributed to the MA as you put it 'slum'.
Everyone plays the game they way they want to, doesn't make it right or wrong, I've tried explaining that on various threads, guess it hasn't sunk in yet.
Or pay everyones fee and we'll all fly the way you would like us to.

Had my 2nd night in the new arenas since my return so an update -

EW - Too quiet, but still managed to run into a 3 v 1 all higher (of course).
MW and LW - No different form the old MA, but with numbers caps

Overall the LW1 and 2 tended to have twice the number of players of EW an MW combined. So I guess you can say LW is what MOST people want.

No probs with the new arenas, but the caps have to go, it is actually contributing to side imbalances.

Yes you can a say "swap sides", but think on this -
1) Perk multiplier - To encourage people to swap sides
2) ENY - To encourage people to swap sides
3) Lowered side swap time - To encourage people to swap sides

Did they work - NO, so I guess people don't want to swap sides, and even this new format won't change it.
Title: laz wiening again
Post by: HGCeech on September 20, 2006, 09:25:35 AM
Laz i am new to this game,say about 5 months,i came here from FA,because the game had what i and my squad wanted,but its getting to sound like the crybabies in FA,you just seem to downgrade everyone who does not agree with you and the rotton changes AH made.It seems most of the Pilots Like the LW but it needs to have the cap removed so more then 250 can join.I have been flying flight sims since air warrior days and AH seems to be the best out there,but i fly with my mates and as of yet i cant get into a areana where they fly,and that is LW areana.You are being very nasty to a lot of people who do not agree with you,not nice sir.This eny stuff is bad also.I am strickley a Buff driver B17s and B24s,i cant fly fighters ,tried but cant do it.So please use your influence with AH and do one of two thinks ,change it back or take away that eny and encrese the cap on the LW areana..Thanks for your time sir....:cool: :) :furious
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 20, 2006, 09:31:50 AM
kev... all I can say is that if you don't want to switch sides or you can't play without having a huge advantage in aircraft ability or numbers...

I really don't want to play in the same game as you anyway.

The new format gives me the opportunity to do just that... not play your game.

I think it will be far healthier for the new guys too... they will have a choice when before... they had none..

all this bad behavior was the only option for em unless they had exceptional charachter.

To the credit of a lot of new guys....  a lot of em did... they avoided the mega squad "take anyone with a mouse" like the plauge and fought in early or mid war planes.... now they are in the EW or mid war and having a good time.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 20, 2006, 09:42:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
kev... all I can say is that if you don't want to switch sides or you can't play without having a huge advantage in aircraft ability or numbers...

I really don't want to play in the same game as you anyway.

The new format gives me the opportunity to do just that... not play your game.

I think it will be far healthier for the new guys too... they will have a choice when before... they had none..

all this bad behavior was the only option for em unless they had exceptional charachter.

To the credit of a lot of new guys....  a lot of em did... they avoided the mega squad "take anyone with a mouse" like the plauge and fought in early or mid war planes.... now they are in the EW or mid war and having a good time.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


Lazs - I have been Bish through the good times and the bad. If you actually knew me you'd know I don't always fly with the hoard, more than likely find me/squad intercepting, or defending a field against the hoard.

New format (i.e. multi arenas) I don't have a problem with, it's the caps. It has actually made LW1 worse than the MA because people can't get in, so the imbalance swings wildly.

Choice - to be able to enter ANY arena regardless of numbers already in it. This one small change alone would most likely keep EVERYONE happy.
It won't affect the EW/MW and allow the majority of players to play a single LW.
Title: numbers
Post by: jtdragon on September 20, 2006, 10:01:29 AM
just a note on my other post on day time play, right now there is less then 120 on in three arenas, this is how its been for the new arenas at this time of day, before the change there would have been 200 by now, that should say something is wrong.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 20, 2006, 10:12:52 AM
Kev...

Play styles aside, truth is that the old way had problems -- I think we all have to admit that. The new way has some problems too. We can both make big lists on both sides of the question.

But we can't stop time, and we can't stop change. We cant freeze things at one point; even if we could, how can we pick which point to stop it at? The Old Onez would say go back to AH1 early days, you would say go back to a month ago. Can you honestly say that you're right and they're wrong?

Now about country loyalty. You DO realize that most online games have a "side balancing" option for forum administrators that works just fine, right? Most combat games can flat out force you to change sides to even the experience for all. And even if AH CHOOSES not to do that, there is a huge difference between admitting that the sides will never be exactly equal, and saying they can be as unequal as they want.

Think some more. What if the HTC business plan expected an influx of, say, another couple thousand players when CT opens. That might mean another 200-300 online at a time. If things grew without artificial external controls, the AH2 you liked best would be just as extinct as Air Warrior.

So lets not even consider the "don't change anything" alternative. Ir's not going to happen, because life just doesnt work that way.  Instead, if you don't like what HT's done, try to see it from the company's perspective, not just your own. Suggestions should account for all playing styles, not just the way you want things to be. (And that includes your expectation that you should never change countries. That isnt a right.)
Title: Re: numbers
Post by: SlapShot on September 20, 2006, 10:14:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by jtdragon
just a note on my other post on day time play, right now there is less then 120 on in three arenas, this is how its been for the new arenas at this time of day, before the change there would have been 200 by now, that should say something is wrong.


Your gonna need more sampling data over a longer period of time to try and squeak this by as valid data sampling.

Why do people assume that HTC is not watching this kind of stuff and will or will not make adjustments as time passes ... its called tweaking and HT and Co. are very good at it.

Way too many Chicken Littles running around the barn yard at the moment.
Title: Re: laz wiening again
Post by: 68Ripper on September 20, 2006, 10:49:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by HGCeech
Laz i am new to this game,say about 5 months,i came here from FA,because the game had what i and my squad wanted,but its getting to sound like the crybabies in FA,you just seem to downgrade everyone who does not agree with you and the rotton changes AH made.It seems most of the Pilots Like the LW but it needs to have the cap removed so more then 250 can join.I have been flying flight sims since air warrior days and AH seems to be the best out there,but i fly with my mates and as of yet i cant get into a areana where they fly,and that is LW areana.You are being very nasty to a lot of people who do not agree with you,not nice sir.This eny stuff is bad also.I am strickley a Buff driver B17s and B24s,i cant fly fighters ,tried but cant do it.So please use your influence with AH and do one of two thinks ,change it back or take away that eny and encrese the cap on the LW areana..Thanks for your time sir....:cool: :) :furious


What? you didn't get the memo? Lazs2 and the rest of the BK's are the self appointed spokespeople for HTC.

 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 20, 2006, 10:52:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th

Yes you can a say "swap sides", but think on this -
1) Perk multiplier - To encourage people to swap sides
2) ENY - To encourage people to swap sides
3) Lowered side swap time - To encourage people to swap sides

I find it enlightening that you are right about this, that these techniques invented to encourage fair-play are not always working as we'd hope. The arenas often have a lack of balanced sides (did in the 500-player MA too), which leads directly to a lack of fairness, which when drastic enough leads to a lack of fun for those outnumbered. But don't you see, can't you admit, that this unfairness is the result of the players themselves? The players are using their free choice to create an arena out of balance and thus unfair, DESPITE being offered incentives to play fair. You may call it a symptom of "teh 1337 g4m3rz" from Quake, but I call it simply "greifing".

I think this is a classic example of "slum behavior", a group of folks who want to play a game and then intentionally create a situation that is unfair to their opponents. I am suprised to see so many folks voicing their desires to cheat (playing unfair is tantamount to cheating in my book) in an online game, and now they are literally upset that actions were taken to limit such counterproductive behavior. If you don't like the term cheat then you have to admit it is gaming-the-game at best.

When you see unbalanced sides in any AH arenas please understand this is created by THE PLAYERS using their own freedom of choice.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 20, 2006, 11:35:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
I find it enlightening that you are right about this, that these techniques invented to encourage fair-play are not always working as we'd hope. The arenas often have a lack of balanced sides (did in the 500-player MA too), which leads directly to a lack of fairness, which when drastic enough leads to a lack of fun for those outnumbered. But don't you see, can't you admit, that this unfairness is the result of the players themselves? The players are using their free choice to create an arena out of balance and thus unfair, DESPITE being offered incentives to play fair. You may call it a symptom of "teh 1337 g4m3rz" from Quake, but I call it simply "greifing".

I think this is a classic example of "slum behavior", a group of folks who want to play a game and then intentionally create a situation that is unfair to their opponents. I am suprised to see so many folks voicing their desires to cheat (playing unfair is tantamount to cheating in my book) in an online game, and now they are literally upset that actions were taken to limit such counterproductive behavior. If you don't like the term cheat then you have to admit it is gaming-the-game at best.

When you see unbalanced sides in any AH arenas please understand this is created by THE PLAYERS using their own freedom of choice.


I think you've hit the nail right on the head, Edbert.  I believe that the attitude you describe is a DIRECT result of the 'Quake l33ter cheater' mentality, win by any means necessary.  What is missing from these players' understanding it that it is more about PLAYING the game than WINNING the game, as there's really no MA 'winner'.  Map resets, yeah, I suppose that is going to be considered a 'win'.  Since there's really no 'hacking' AH2 (in the sense of code cheats, etc.), they've found the only hack they can work and that's overwhelming numbers.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 20, 2006, 12:06:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
raider179 or "fatsack"   let's take a look at your stats so that we can put your complaints into perspective...

You fly buffs and use GV's a lot.    You wouldn't want to evern see a early war arena... nothing for you to do there.

But... we are talking about AC here so, let's look at what and how you fly.   You fly F4u and Dora and nik and Ki 84 and the spit 16....  

You get killed twice for every time that you kill someone but....  you play allmost 50 hours a month in fighters and.... you spend most of your time flying around doing nothing... you get 2 kills an hour... that means..

you do nothing most of the time.   I don' t think that you have much of a right to say that the old MA was fine.  I don't think that your style of gameplay is what most want in a combat air sim.

not singling you out but you are one of the few complaining that even gives his real handle.

It seems that the whorde is the safety net that a lot of the guys who spend hours a day flying think they need.

fatsack... get into the early war in a hurri or spit or whatever and I gurantee that you will get into a lot of fights that will improve your abilities to the point that when you meet another plane.... it won't be a two to one chance he will own you even tho you are in a better plane.

lazs
Public Realations Officer for the BK's


It's FatSacks....

Also, I NEVER fly Spits... Not sure where you are looking but you got the wrong data....

I spend a lot of time flying to targets, Because unlike you, I don't up from a capped base. Probably why I don't get vulched 90% of the time as you "CLAIM" you do.

Not sure where you are looking but I went to AH scores at the top there...

I played 73 hours last tour...

46 hours in fighters 27 hours in BUffs and GVs Combined....

Avg 2.8 kills/hr in fighters...That's 1 kill every 20 minutes or so. Sorry but if that is "flying around doing nothing" I bet you never have flown above 5k...

BTW it doesn't matter what you think I have a right to say. But you seem to be one of those "elitist" jerks everyone talks about...

So you saying this change fixed the horde? LMAO LMAO LMAO

I am not a great fighter pilot but I try sorry If I haven't played for 50 years like you have, but that's nice your willing to drag my name through the mud with false stats , and then try to convince me to fly your way.  You want to help people don't be such an elitist jerk...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: wipass on September 20, 2006, 12:13:01 PM
Well said raider

wipass
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 999000 on September 20, 2006, 12:16:21 PM
Raider179......Welcome to the biggest drag of the Game..the BK's.... Blue Knights....go to their home page..It reads something like "we don't fly bombers, we don't do base captures, we don't do Gv's" ...and if you find them rude ....they are proud of it.
999000
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: bsdaddict on September 20, 2006, 12:32:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by scottydawg
... they've found the only hack they can work and that's overwhelming numbers.


dunno about that.  is warping intentional?  seems awfully suspicious when as soon as you get the upper hand on somebody they all of a sudden start warping...  

BAN WARPERS!!!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 20, 2006, 12:45:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
I find it enlightening that you are right about this, that these techniques invented to encourage fair-play are not always working as we'd hope. The arenas often have a lack of balanced sides (did in the 500-player MA too), which leads directly to a lack of fairness, which when drastic enough leads to a lack of fun for those outnumbered. But don't you see, can't you admit, that this unfairness is the result of the players themselves? The players are using their free choice to create an arena out of balance and thus unfair, DESPITE being offered incentives to play fair. You may call it a symptom of "teh 1337 g4m3rz" from Quake, but I call it simply "greifing".

I think this is a classic example of "slum behavior", a group of folks who want to play a game and then intentionally create a situation that is unfair to their opponents. I am suprised to see so many folks voicing their desires to cheat (playing unfair is tantamount to cheating in my book) in an online game, and now they are literally upset that actions were taken to limit such counterproductive behavior. If you don't like the term cheat then you have to admit it is gaming-the-game at best.

When you see unbalanced sides in any AH arenas please understand this is created by THE PLAYERS using their own freedom of choice.


Totally agree, but can't you see that in the current numbers capped arenas it is making the situation WORSE.

Example from last night -
LW1 - Rooks pretty much well outnumbered, arena full
LW2 - Rooks had the numbers

Combine them you have a more even LW arena.

Never seen ENY's as high in some arenas as I have the last two days I've been back, and the caps are making it worse, NOT better.

For all those who thought it mean't the end of hoard - how wrong can you be lol.
Granted they are not as big, but ratio wise they are still a hoard.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 20, 2006, 01:10:43 PM
1) The ENY formula is under HTC's control.

2) HT has said elsewhere that "every game is based on fairness between the sides" or something to that effect.

3) ENY has seemed more restrictive to those who refuse to change sides.



Can you draw any conclusions about what HTC thinks ought to happen? HT doesnt like forcing arbitrarily, but he's willing to put in some pretty stiff incentives to have US balance ourselves. And despite your argument that the arena limits force inequity, the truth is that ANY of the people logged into an arena can cahnge sides of they choose. We CAN even the sides regardless of the total numbers.[edit: total numbers in the arena]

And if you argue "they've never worked before" I have to ask you -- if we as a community refuse to make things roughly fair on our own, do you think he'll give up , or do you think he'll make tougher rules?


You really may want to think about this.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 20, 2006, 01:23:06 PM
Agreed again Kev. So since we both agree that blame for the lack of balance lies at the feet of the players and not HTC. What is with all the complaints about ENY? Not just you of course, I don't mean to single you out for being so reasonable here, but the majority of the complaints in this thread about "not being able to fly any plane I want" are pertaining to an ENY situation right? What else can they (HTC) do short of having a randomizer that logs you into whatever chesspeice is currently outnumbered like so many other online games have. At least this way if ENY is kicking you in the shorts it is because of a choice you made. Your thoughts?

...and, 999000 why such a broad brush there? So you have "issues" with some of the folks in the skwad I'm in...fine. But why make such glaringly prejudicial remarks about how the BKs are "the biggest drag on the game" and all just because you and a few individuals can't play nice? Yeah we got some...uhhhh...vociferous members...who doesn't? I for one try always to show respect for other players, I've never had a conflict with you that I can think of and then you go painting me with tar like that...confusing.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SlapShot on September 20, 2006, 01:30:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 999000
Raider179......Welcome to the biggest drag of the Game..the BK's.... Blue Knights....go to their home page..It reads something like "we don't fly bombers, we don't do base captures, we don't do Gv's" ...and if you find them rude ....they are proud of it.
999000


You need to remove that hair across your bellybutton ... HT slapped you once ... I wouldn't want to get slapped again.

I have been around here for quite some time (as a MAW, 13th TAS, and now a BK) ... even before you ... and I have never voiced an idea or an opinion that deserves to be called one of the "biggest drags of the Game".

You need to take some deep breaths and repeat over and over ... it's only a game.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mustaine on September 20, 2006, 02:18:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
I'm the biggest drag queen of the Game



























:p :D
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Sloehand on September 20, 2006, 02:25:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
1) The ENY formula is under HTC's control.

2) HT has said elsewhere that "every game is based on fairness between the sides" or something to that effect.

3) ENY has seemed more restrictive to those who refuse to change sides.



Can you draw any conclusions about what HTC thinks ought to happen? HT doesnt like forcing arbitrarily, but he's willing to put in some pretty stiff incentives to have US balance ourselves. And despite your argument that the arena limits force inequity, the truth is that ANY of the people logged into an arena can cahnge sides of they choose. We CAN even the sides regardless of the total numbers.[edit: total numbers in the arena]

And if you argue "they've never worked before" I have to ask you -- if we as a community refuse to make things roughly fair on our own, do you think he'll give up , or do you think he'll make tougher rules?


You really may want to think about this.


This is for Edbert, the BK's and everyone else yapping about numbers balance.   I thoroughly understand the need for balance, and your belief that changing sides is the solution.  Unfortunately there are other considereations that make this imposible for many.  

Many people are naturally loyal by nature and are committed to playing for one side only.  This is the way they want to play, and is no better or worse than those who jump back and forth.  Squadrons are provided by AH, so most people join one (the very greater majority), and fly together, sometimes in very large groups.  All of this is normal, natural and PREDICTABLE human behavior, and another perfect acceptable way to play the game.  

Some people play to win the map as opposed to just hunting for furballs and perk points -- both acceptable game play.  AH provides the 'Win the map' strategy and functionality, so no one is doing something they shouldn't if they do everything they can to take bases and win.  To imply anything different is wrong.  The game (i.e. HiTech) provides it, so by default, they encourage and endorse it.  You can't make it go away. It never will, unless HiTEch scraps the game itself and starts over.

Some people play to fly fighters.  Some to bomb in buffs.  Some to tank in GV's.  AH provides all this, so it is again reasonable that people do this, and since they take EVERYONES money, it behooves HiTech to find the best solutions that help and enhance everyones game, not just a few (BK's are you listening).  If HiTech takes your money over time, there is some obligation on their part to let you continue to play the game you thought you were purchasing, or at least announce that major game elements were changing so you could decide to stay or go.  And this does not mean some changes shouldn't occur over time to improve the game, but to fundamentally change the gameplay (I'd say recreating the Arena format qualifies) in mid-stream makes it difficult for many people to still enjoy themselves, especially when ther are a number if ill-considered flaws in the new format.  

On that point, I think it would have served HiTech's stated purpose to simply have added the Early Arena, keeping the original MA.  The numbers right now suggest that would have drawn off 150 or more people from the MA during peak hours.  Later, if their expected influx of new players required it, the could further divide the arenas, and with some experience and additiaonal insight from the first split.  Unfortunately they went for the extreme, cold turkey approach.
 
As for numbers imbalance (which is more prevelant and extreme than before), basically, people are not going to voluntarily switch sides (at least not enough) cause that's not normal behavior.  Only those who feel no loyalty to anything or anyone, and just want to fight their own little fight, will do the side switching.  And that's OK for them.

There will always be some imbalance, sometimes extreme.  The trick is not to increase the problem (as this format does) and find small, less disruptive ways to minimize it.  ENY is one way that has some passably acceptable characteristics, but it needs to be implemented less onerously.

In my experience, HiTech is notable for killing mosquitoes (apologies to Mossie drivers) with sledgehammers, instead of finessing with a flyswatter.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 20, 2006, 02:36:31 PM
Like I said... I wasn't really singling you out but you prove my point....  45 hours in fighters... 80 total... that is a lot of time in the game in a month and...  as you say... less than three kills in an hour...

And no... I do not think that spending 20 minutes flying around doing nothing is any fun.   I may only have an hour to play that whole day.   I don't want 95% of that time to be spend doing nothing.

You also fly only the latest and fastest planes and if you kill something.... it is a slower early plane... I can see how you wouldn't want em removed.

That is maybe the problem.. different goals... if "winning the war" is so important to you then I can see how winning at all costs can become so consuming that you would favor overwhelming numbers and other gamey type stuff.

I use your stats as an example... you are saying one thing and I another.... your stats show how you play and mine the way I play.   people listening to us should know what we mean when we say things like "lots of fites" or "good fites"...

They mean completely different things to the two of us.

The cheating of the squad limits caused a lot of the problems we have now...  

The inability of the community to police itself and change sides and side balance instead of whorde caused the problems.

the eny may get people to do the right thing...  carrot.... stick... make em quit... I don't care... I just want good gameplay.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: Re: Re: Re: HTC Please READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 20, 2006, 02:37:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Or in otherwords....

If you don't agree with me... and voice a different opinion.... then your opinion or request is nothing more than a whine.


No, he's just pointing out that you do have a choice...you can either play or not play.  It's all rather simple really.



ack-ack
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 20, 2006, 02:44:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
Agreed again Kev. So since we both agree that blame for the lack of balance lies at the feet of the players and not HTC. What is with all the complaints about ENY? Not just you of course, I don't mean to single you out for being so reasonable here, but the majority of the complaints in this thread about "not being able to fly any plane I want" are pertaining to an ENY situation right? What else can they (HTC) do short of having a randomizer that logs you into whatever chesspeice is currently outnumbered like so many other online games have. At least this way if ENY is kicking you in the shorts it is because of a choice you made. Your thoughts


My thoughts -

Well, the imbalance is going to continue to be a part of the game, thats a given.
Everything thats been tried to 'fix' it has failed, no reason why anything new should work.

So the aim should be to make it as small as possible.

The current cap on at least LW1 isn't doing this, in fact it's making it worse than the MA ever was. My example from earlier shows this -
LW1 - Rooks outnumbered, arena full

LW2 - Rooks had the numbers, 50 players or so total, of which 30+ were Rooks.

So in this case HT is responsible for making the imbalance even worse than it previously was.
Combine them the sides would have been more even.

What is confusing -
It was deemed neccesary to have a lower limit before ENY kicked in (200 I believe) prior to this. Now suddenly it has been removed TOTALLY, not reduced, but removed.

Dunno, I think if you remove the caps on the arenas it would keep 90%+ happy.
Wouldn't really affect the EW / MW arenas so shouldn't really be any objections.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 20, 2006, 02:54:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sloehand
This is for Edbert, the BK's and everyone else yapping about numbers balance.   I thoroughly understand the need for balance, and your belief that changing sides is the solution.  Unfortunately there are other considereations that make this imposible for many.  

Many people are naturally loyal by nature and are committed to playing for one side only.  This is the way they want to play, and is no better or worse than those who jump back and forth.  Squadrons are provided by AH, so most people join one (the very greater majority), and fly together, sometimes in very large groups.  All of this is normal, natural and PREDICTABLE human behavior, and another perfect acceptable way to play the game.  

The real question is, how large of a unit should claim our loyalty? In war, its pretty clear that loyalties come down to the small unit -- the squad. Thats what soldiers fight for, their buddies.

There is NOTHING natural about a lifetime affiliation with a chesspiece.

Some people play to win the map as opposed to just hunting for furballs and perk points -- both acceptable game play.  AH provides the 'Win the map' strategy and functionality, so no one is doing something they shouldn't if they do everything they can to take bases and win.  

To use your logic, since HTC allows for country change every 6 hours, we ought to cahgne countries frequently! After all, the country change is just as much part of the system as the base capture!

And I emphasize again, you can capture bases for the other side, and still have the capture fun. It's a game, like pickup football....so act like it!

Some people play to fly fighters.  Some to bomb in buffs.  Some to tank in GV's.  AH provides all this, so it is again reasonable that people do this, and since they take EVERYONES money, it behooves HiTech to find the best solutions that help and enhance everyones game,

 OK, here we're getting somewhere. There are thousands of people in the game, and when CT starts there will be hundreds more. That means the old MA game -- which you love -- would change ANYWAY. So, what changes will allow EVERYONE -- not just the war guys, not just the furballers -- to keep having fun?

Nothing has cahnged in the capture mechanics, but hordes are harder to put together with lower numbers. So, the changes DO mean you have to do something different, and that can be uncomfortable. Now you have to be smarter, snaekier, and more skillful than before. That's all it means, you have to change tactics. YOu can do everything you could before.

 If HiTech takes your money over time, there is some obligation on their part to let you continue to play the game you thought you were purchasing, or at least announce that major game elements were changing so you could decide to stay or go.  

 Not really. If a TV show you watch suddenly kills off your favorite character, have you been robbed? No, thinking that would be silly, If you dont like the changes, you go somewhere else. If the show is still worth watching, you watch it.

...snip...

On that point, I think it would have served HiTech's stated purpose to simply have added the Early Arena, keeping the original MA.  The numbers right now suggest that would have drawn off 150 or more people from the MA during peak hours.  Later, if their expected influx of new players required it, the could further divide the arenas, and with some experience and additiaonal insight from the first split.  Unfortunately they went for the extreme, cold turkey approach.
 
As for numbers imbalance (which is more prevelant and extreme than before), basically, people are not going to voluntarily switch sides (at least not enough) cause that's not normal behavior.  


 I strongly disagree. Why cant a squad (with intense  loyalty to each other) swing back and forth to the lower side? Why cant attitudes change JUST A LITTLE BIT so that winning the war becomes more like winning a pickup football game -- with friends on both sides? 1


Only those who feel no loyalty to anything or anyone, and just want to fight their own little fight, will do the side switching.  And that's OK for them.

 This is both judgemental and silly. Silly -- because I dont know of a squad with more layalty to each other than the 80th FS (including Corky/Dan and friends), and they go to the low side often, jsut to keepo things fair. Judgemental -- Kinda like "Some people are in favor of apartheid, and that's OK for them."

There will always be some imbalance, sometimes extreme.  The trick is not to increase the problem (as this format does) and find small, less disruptive ways to minimize it.  ENY is one way that has some passably acceptable characteristics, but it needs to be implemented less onerously.

 How will implementing it less onerously help even the sides?

In my experience, HiTech is notable for killing mosquitoes (apologies to Mossie drivers) with sledgehammers, instead of finessing with a flyswatter.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 20, 2006, 02:58:53 PM
Sloe,

I agree that there are many tastes, and different ways to enjoy this game, and that none of them are inherently right versus wrong, although the incessant gangbanging is close to being always "wrong" in my book. I agree with a large portion of what you wrote, and aside from the "yapping" comment, thought it was reasonable and rational and without insult. I have no problem with winning the war types, or buff drivers, or GVers. I roll 99.99% of my sorties in single engine fighters, you fly/drive whatever makes you happy. I just am happy to see steps being taken to encourage fairness in numbers/planetypes is all. The modest enticements did not work, it took years for that it to be realised that it was not working, so stiffer measures were taken. Only time will tell if they are sufficient or not, I expect it might take 3-6 months to know for sure.

I guess the only things you and I have to add or disagree on is the issue of those who choose "loyalty" to their chesspeice over fairness and then complain about ENY since they do in fact have a choice in the matter. If you choose to fly on the side with overwhelming numerical superiority then you should not complain about ENY, simple as that. Whining about a choice you made is just silly.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 20, 2006, 03:06:10 PM
Nevermind the blow by blow.

You have a right to pick your plane, and fly for the country you want.

Some guy on Knights has a right to fly against a fair number of enemies, and to have an equal chance to win the "war." and HE doesnt want to change countries.

How can we find a solution that's fair to EVERYONE, not just the guys on your squad/country?

Simple question.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 20, 2006, 03:11:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Panzullo
It appears to me the new change has destroyed our "the customer" ability to fly what type of plane and when we want to fly. Mostly if the "customer" has grown accustom to any type or mode of flying.  



How has the new change destroyed what you can fly or how you fly?  You can still fly the La7 and gang with the hord to your merry hearts content in the Late War arena.



ack-ack
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SlapShot on September 20, 2006, 03:15:25 PM
This is for Edbert, the BK's and everyone else yapping about numbers balance. I thoroughly understand the need for balance, and your belief that changing sides is the solution. Unfortunately there are other considereations that make this imposible for many.

It's not impossible.

Many people are naturally loyal by nature and are committed to playing for one side only. This is the way they want to play, and is no better or worse than those who jump back and forth. Squadrons are provided by AH, so most people join one (the very greater majority), and fly together, sometimes in very large groups. All of this is normal, natural and PREDICTABLE human behavior, and another perfect acceptable way to play the game.

Very true ... no argument here ... but in this game there are consequences for this behavior.

Some people play to fly fighters. Some to bomb in buffs. Some to tank in GV's. AH provides all this, so it is again reasonable that people do this, and since they take EVERYONES money, it behooves HiTech to find the best solutions that help and enhance everyones game, not just a few (BK's are you listening). If HiTech takes your money over time, there is some obligation on their part to let you continue to play the game you thought you were purchasing, or at least announce that major game elements were changing so you could decide to stay or go. And this does not mean some changes shouldn't occur over time to improve the game, but to fundamentally change the gameplay (I'd say recreating the Arena format qualifies) in mid-stream makes it difficult for many people to still enjoy themselves, especially when ther are a number if ill-considered flaws in the new format.

I'm tired of this crap ... "BKs are you listening" ... too freakin' bad that we chose to voice our opinions. I don't know if you have ever met HT or Pyro, I have, and they are not easily swayed by any individual or groups of individuals, no matter how loud they yell and stamp their feet. The posts on this BBS may raise red flags for them, but I have yet to see them make any change as a knee-jerk reaction, to our posts.

The BKs only part in all of this was to voice our opinions and/or suggestions ... and we weren't the only ones ... it just so happens that the majority of our squad choose to participate on this BBS so it appears that we are the vocal majority, but don't kid yourself. Read the vast amount of post where those who had knee jerk reactions to the changes have changed their tune drastically, or the post by long forgotten names that are now re-signing back up due to the recent changes.

I happen to own a copy of Microsoft XP ... I NEVER was asked by Bill Gates that if the changes that are coming in Vista are to my liking. It just doesn't work that way and it never will. HTC will do what it is they think is best for their company and employees. If they gave a crap what every one of us thought was best for their business ...  they wouldn't have lasted this long.

When is their a good time for change ? When everyone here or all the subscribers weighed in on the change ... not a good business plan. We don't know our butts from a hole in the ground when it comes to maintaing a game such as this ... and from what I can see ... HTC is the ONLY one in this genre that has longevity and is the best of breed in this genre. To try and tell them what's best is ludicrious at best.

Ill-consider flaws ... such is the life of computer software and architecture.

On that point, I think it would have served HiTech's stated purpose to simply have added the Early Arena, keeping the original MA. The numbers right now suggest that would have drawn off 150 or more people from the MA during peak hours. Later, if their expected influx of new players required it, the could further divide the arenas, and with some experience and additiaonal insight from the first split. Unfortunately they went for the extreme, cold turkey approach.

Well ... here you are voicing your opinion ... just like all the rest of us have done over the past few months ... shall I slam you for putting forth this opinion ?

As for numbers imbalance (which is more prevelant and extreme than before), basically, people are not going to voluntarily switch sides (at least not enough) cause that's not normal behavior. Only those who feel no loyalty to anything or anyone, and just want to fight their own little fight, will do the side switching. And that's OK for them.

That is their choice ... don't balance ... then you don't get the choice rides. Nobody is being forced to switch side ... they are being enticed to switch sides ... simple as that. They are in control of their own destiny.

Don't try to lay an un-loyal tag on those who switch sides ... some of us do it because its the right thing to do ... and in the past it was to find a decent fight or a just a fight period.

There will always be some imbalance, sometimes extreme. The trick is not to increase the problem (as this format does) and find small, less disruptive ways to minimize it. ENY is one way that has some passably acceptable characteristics, but it needs to be implemented less onerously.

So true ... and I believe that HT is looking at this and we will see changes in the near future to deal with it ... but its not going to come any quicker by fools jumping up and down holding their collective breaths ... it will come when HT is ready.

In my experience, HiTech is notable for killing mosquitoes (apologies to Mossie drivers) with sledgehammers, instead of finessing with a flyswatter.

Well ... I guess that his techniques work ... I think that HTC and this game's longevity prove it.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 20, 2006, 03:26:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 999000
Raider179......Welcome to the biggest drag of the Game..the BK's.... Blue Knights....go to their home page..It reads something like "we don't fly bombers, we don't do base captures, we don't do Gv's" ...and if you find them rude ....they are proud of it.
999000



:lol  numbers, you've made one statement since the change that is factually correct. That statement was your claim to being the village idiot. <> respected halfwit!
Title: Re: Re: Re: HTC Please READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: The Fugitive on September 20, 2006, 03:32:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Or in otherwords....

If you don't agree with me... and voice a different opinion.... then your opinion or request is nothing more than a whine.


I don't have a problem with a DIFFERENT opinion at all, and by all means voice one ! The first part of my post was...

LOL!!! When will you guys learn???? "I'm going to take my $15 and go someplace else" Please do !!! jeez all the whining and complaining! I can understand you not likeing the changes, but a simple "I agree with xxxxx" is enough.

I was pointing out in that part of the post that whining and crying about the same thing over and over isn't going to get you any where, just put "I agree with so-and-so" and let it go at that.

As for the rest of the post, as Ack-Ack said, its a simple choice, play or don't.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 20, 2006, 03:52:59 PM
Well i have stayed off the boards for about 4 days and the same guys are insulting in here..let me address some concepts here....


1)  Hordes are "safety nets"

Large squads are not safety nets...they are groups of guys who like each other and like to hang out...flying with a purpose is not a bad thing..in fact it adds to some folks' gameplay.

2)  Furballing is superior to basetaking

Im sorry but neither are great or realistic...they are both arcade...no ww2 fiter pilot lived if he insisted on slow turnfiting multiple enemy aircraft...and i dont know of any air force base capture mission ever.  so both are artificial non-historical ways to have fun.   i.e. noone wins this argument...even if you type longer or insult better...they are both gamey and there are tricks to both that can be easily taught and used.

3) your just mad because you can't fly the la7

Here is the secret from playing long before there were la7s....THERE IS ALWAYS A BETTER PLANE....and that better plane will always be denigrated for being better and frustrating others....already in EW arena you can see this and the NEW insults...HOicane...Picking 190a5...Porking ju88's...in airwarrior with a similar planes set there were constant insults between "B-n-Zers" and "Turnfiters"...

so what i boils down too for me is this...i play to hang out with my friends (many guys i have flown with for over 4 years)...i have known more about their day to day lives then i have some of my real life friends...hell we have had 3 members die and that was hard as well...

my squad has grown large not by design but by the fact that we laugh and joke and goof around and dont take ourselves too seriously..but mainly because we sincerely like each other...Hitech created this large arena concept..we just grew within it.

But on Sept 13th the game completely changed...i compare it to playing everquest and havign it switched to world of warcraft...my main reason for flying as much as i did has been compromised.  That is why i am angry..i could care less if they did away with base takes or la7s...im upset because they created a barrier to seeing all my friends...i think anyone even in smaller squads knows what i mean...

I have flown less in the last week then i have flown in 9 years...and that was not a purposeful statement on my part..its a sincere lack of interest...what made this game great was the comraderie...this game will never and can never compete with xbox graphics or stand alone RPGs...what it does offer is the opportunity for true friendships.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 20, 2006, 03:53:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2


You also fly only the latest and fastest planes and if you kill something.... it is a slower early plane... I can see how you wouldn't want em removed.

I use your stats as an example... you are saying one thing and I another.... your stats show how you play and mine the way I play.   people listening to us should know what we mean when we say things like "lots of fites" or "good fites"...


lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


This is my last response to you because you are blatantly lying about my stats in order to further your own agenda. And I hope everyone sees right through you.

Tour 79

Top Planes I kill in order Highest to lowest

1) La- 7      20 kills

2)Niki         20 kills

3)Spit XVI  15 kills

4)P-51D     14 Kills

5)B-24J      13 kills

Use my stats for whatever example you want, But stop lying about them.

You claim I flew the Spit XVI my stats show I NEVER DO.

You  claim all I do is shoot down slow early planes, My stats show that is not true at all.

I really don't care what you think of MY stats or MY time in the game. You have proven that you are willing to boldly lie to promote your agenda.

All I want is the POP cap upped on the LW arena. You can keep your little elite EW arena for all I care, Which I don't...

The only reason YOU want the POP caps is to force people to fly in an arena that YOU like, even if THEY don't.  Talk about selfish...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hitech on September 20, 2006, 03:59:03 PM
FALCONWING: Ask your self one question.

How many members of your squad can you personaly name with out looking at the squad roster.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 20, 2006, 04:20:00 PM
kite777 (6 years together)
bushlt
fungi987 (3 years)
hotdogmn (3+ years)
shubie      (3+ years)
thundregg
flaydone
airjer      (since awc)
camador
solar10
mctoast
viper215  (too long)
sullie
banshee  (since my first day in air warrior classic) was ban69
usranger
red420
reverand
pops949
rain000
flyy            (since awc rre4 circa 1995)
tcfkas
gary6
mailbox
talonII
POW        (. 3years)
choperen
badcarma
JollyFe
Goaly
99mecinf
UFO
Beagle
2old2fly
Monti       (since awc as well)
Jpeg
Ink
Locochal
Donzo
Cablemender
Bayonet
Worid1
waldo

okay im sure i left otu a bunch but wanted to do this quickly
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 20, 2006, 04:23:11 PM
oops forgot dog398 who is also slycer

beagle if if orgot him onother list

also some new bops i forgot would be gghost and phenom

jpeg too if i forgot him
thrila..miss spork...but he has been MIA


Want to do this with how many bishops i can name?:aok
Title: Squad size
Post by: Jolly on September 20, 2006, 04:24:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
FALCONWING: Ask your self one question.

How many members of your squad can you personaly name with out looking at the squad roster.


Well Hitech, I am Jolly31 of the 31st bomber barons. We have a squad over your limit of 32 players. However to support our players who can't play ever day we broke down into 3 squad and had many full time players join the squads to have room to grow.

The names without squad roster.

GMC, ADog, Kudzu, Chief, TD, TC, Blackcloud, MrStick, Zeek, Phantomz, Brick, Memen, Reaper, Raptor, Grayhawk, Slopoke, Casey, Mars, JAG, jason.

We have many more part time players, who are your paying customers.

We have about 40 players in all, so you want us to disband and only make one squad and let our part time members go, when the main thing they logon for is to fly with squad.

HOW ABOUT A DEAL HITECH, KEEP THE SQUAD SIZE THE SAME, YOU JUST MOVE HALF OF YOUR OFFICE STAFF TO ANOTHER BUILDING AND YOU CAN'T TALK TO THEM.

That is what the squad size limit is doing to any group over 32 players in the game.

Jolly
Title: Way to go FALCONWING
Post by: Jolly on September 20, 2006, 04:31:16 PM
Way to go  FALCONWING, HITECH does not seem to understand that a larger part of playing ACII is being in a group, a squad and enjoying the friendship that brings.

Take that away and this game is not worth $15 a month.

Jolly
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 20, 2006, 04:35:41 PM
Hell, i coulda named at least 1/3rd of that list and i have never been a BOP's member.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 20, 2006, 04:36:01 PM
I think HT just got you guys to emphasize his point.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 999000 on September 20, 2006, 04:38:56 PM
<-------- 999   Slaps Falconwing on the back!...By the way Falconwing is one of those respect guys who is very fun to fly with or against! and adds positivity to the game!
999000
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hitech on September 20, 2006, 04:43:38 PM
FALCONWING: So you are so close to your squad members that you could only name about 1/2 of them.

Jolly: I understand about flying with a group of friends.

Let see, the friends I made flying 16 years ago are still my absolute closest.

And quite frankly thinking I do not is almost an insult after having created 2 online games and communities.

And quite frankly friends and community is the main point of the down sizeing of arena.

When you can only name 1/2 your squad, I would have to say, that there realy is no way the other 1/2 could be considered friends, wrather only people you have met occasionaly.  

And that is the main issue we are trying to address.

The cause of many issures were created by us not limiting arena sizes sooner. Lets take a look back and see some changes we made to AH do to trying to create a bigger arena.

1. Channel 1.
   Because of the population people started to have the anoumous feel like a big city. This removes most of the pier pressure /self regulation that smaller groups have.

2. We created larger maps because things were just to congested on smaller ones.

   To decongest we had to make more points of attack. Well this sounds all well and good, the effect is that it would always create areas that were undefended. Now because of bigger population bigger groups formed. And they would go attack the undefended places. Hence the creation of the "Horde syndrome".
  With smaller maps and smaller groups, individuals could get several friends and have an effect on the group attacks.  With attack groups numbering 50 or more, small groups defending can't even offer resistance and so they don't bother.One person can no longer create an adhock  response to defend, so none even tries.

3. We eliminated kill messages just do to text trafic overload.
   This delays a new comer from his first "Reward/congratlations" that is always a good motivator.

5. We implement monitor-players because once again, we crossed a threshhold of community VS self regulation.

6. We implemented a reporting system because once again to big of numbers, no self regulation.

7. We implemented ENY, once again, to big of numbers, no self regulation.

8. I stoped doing admin Q&A sessions in the arena, just to many people to begin to keep up.

In conclusion.
When we started this game we knew  that  ,if we succeded at it, we would eventulay have to break up arenas, weather at 200, 500, 750 or 1000th or even more.

What we did not know, because we hadn't tried before was, where was the max arena size that worked.

We now have a pretty good guess of the limits.

HiTech
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: DipStick on September 20, 2006, 04:45:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
I think HT just got you guys to emphasize his point.

Hehehe... he's smarter than the average bear --- booboo. ;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: airspro on September 20, 2006, 04:45:43 PM
Quote
Well i have stayed off the boards for about 4 days and the same guys are insulting in here..let me address some concepts here....


That's very well said imo :(  

Wonder what the new players think of this ?

I was going to write more but deleted it . Why bother

:furious
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 999000 on September 20, 2006, 04:46:44 PM
edbert, Your right I  said several but not all Bk's your not one of them....But please explain to me how I don't play nice??
The horde, dweeb planes, vulchers,  porkers,  gv guys fighter jocks etc none of that bothers me.....What bothers me is when someone else tries to tell anyone else that they are playing the game wrong!!!!ie not their way!
Sir 999000
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 999000 on September 20, 2006, 04:59:30 PM
<--- 999000 Really beginning to think that Hitech is a BK!
Sir Hitech.......I know..... I'll go suck and egg...I'm actually considering buying a chicken farm here in Minnesota.
Seriously....all this fuss should be seen as a good thing.... people are excited good and bad about the game right now and thats not entirely a negative thing....Really hoping good comes out of these conversations.
999000
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 20, 2006, 05:06:24 PM
On a related note, Skuzzy was a BK for a few days, but had to be booted from the squad for being disruptive.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hitech on September 20, 2006, 05:33:52 PM
999000: I would sugest a turkey farm instead, its a much better money maker.

And I never said talking and staiting views is a bad thing, but posting in a respectfull manner , with out attacking the person is what will win discussions and gain you respect.


HiTech
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 20, 2006, 06:01:11 PM
The fact of the matter is, Flaconwng is a very valuable asset to HTC and AH.

  He and his squad has always encouraged fun and light hearted game play.

  They have always pulled out the welcome matt to noobs and vets alike.

 The simple fact is, when you are on Vox with the bops. The fun is ever prevalent. This was as prevalent in the early days (Before they were so large) as it is today.

  HT, If before your challenge to FALC was posted, you were challenged to name 10 players in game who was most responsible for helping your community/clientele grow and keep them interested, Would have FalconWng been one of them?

  I can assure that as far as the country he has flown for the last 3 years, Falconwng is at the very TOP of the list of individual's that has kept a many of player having fun and seeing the bright side of the game.

  And yes Yeager this was long before the BOPS squad was as big as they are. I contend that the reason for their squad size is more about fun and "game" than any other reason.

   The fact is. Falcon realizes that this is more about a "game" than 90%of the guys saying its "Just a game"

  I think it very fair of him and his squad to have expressed their concerns at the onset, then play it out for 3 or 4 days while keeping silent on the BBS, and now coming back with a point of view based on trial.

 IF...and I say IF HT was trying to prove the "Point" that a certain BK was eluding to, then I have to think he would be implying that maybe the squad should be half the size it is.

  This would of course imply that there is actually a "Conspiracy" to break up "squads"/"friends" from playing "together" in game. This of course doesnt effect or friendships

  Otherwise HT was simply was challenging Falcons loyalty to friends/squad by insinuating that IF he couldnt name 100% of them, then he actually dont think as much of them as he claims.

  I hope it is the former and not the latter.

  In any case, if HT is attempting to breakup the hoard (* screw those that dont like this spelling*):p  I can assure you IT WILL NOT WORK. It is a failure of a plan from the gitgo.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Dead Man Flying on September 20, 2006, 06:11:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 999000
Raider179......Welcome to the biggest drag of the Game..the BK's.... Blue Knights....go to their home page..It reads something like "we don't fly bombers, we don't do base captures, we don't do Gv's" ...and if you find them rude ....they are proud of it.
999000


Interesting.  The actual quote on the Blue Knights homepage states:

The Blue Knights came into being in April of 1992.
This squad has no ranks, no chain of command, no officers, nor do we have a squad night.  We don't fly missions, we don't drop bombs, we don't take bases.

We fight.
We're good at it.


But improperly paraphrasing it to suit you works too I suppose.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 20, 2006, 06:24:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech


2. We created larger maps because things were just to congested on smaller ones.

   To decongest we had to make more points of attack. Well this sounds all well and good, the effect is that it would always create areas that were undefended. Now because of bigger population bigger groups formed. And they would go attack the undefended places. Hence the creation of the "Horde syndrome".
  With smaller maps and smaller groups, individuals could get several friends and have an effect on the group attacks.  With attack groups numbering 50 or more, small groups defending can't even offer resistance and so they don't bother.One person can no longer create an adhock  response to defend, so none even tries.


In conclusion.
When we started this game we knew  that  ,if we succeded at it, we would eventulay have to break up arenas, weather at 200, 500, 750 or 1000th or even more.

What we did not know, because we hadn't tried before was, where was the max arena size that worked.

We now have a pretty good guess of the limits.

HiTech


Only difference now is the size of the hoard, ratio ways (attacker/defender) it's very similar.

Cap on the LW has made the numbers imbalance worse than ever, never seen some ENY limits as high as they are, thats including RJO nights and close to resets.

Undefended base taking is rampant, even worse than the MA ever was.

Dunno HT, I know what your trying to do, but sorry it aint working.

Overall numbers seem down also.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 20, 2006, 06:27:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
FALCONWING: So you are so close to your squad members that you could only name about 1/2 of them.


System:you shot down FALCONWNG
System:HiTech landed 3 killz in an F4U-4
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 20, 2006, 06:31:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech

When you can only name 1/2 your squad, I would have to say, that there realy is no way the other 1/2 could be considered friends, wrather only people you have met occasionaly.  
HiTech


   Quite frankly Dale i find using someones ability to recall 100+ names at the drop of a hat, as a guage of the loyalty to their "freindship's", rather childish and rude for that matter.  
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: BTW on September 20, 2006, 07:08:41 PM
If there was something tangible to connect arenas, would it still work? I'm thinking scenarios over the early, mid and late war. I think having the three arenas not affecting each other is a problem. I'm thinking thats half an answer as long as the three arena have nothing to do with one another (other than a summation of scores). If there were goals in the EW that would affect plane sets in the mid and late wars, the idea of 3 arenas might make more sense. If team A is bashing team C in the early war arena, team C has a problem with plane sets in the mid and late war arenas. It would be like a holographic war with the early , mid and late wars going on at the same time but still affecting each other. It would be complicated to implement, but it would connect the three arenas. Imagine 7 people going over to the early war arena, fighting it out and affecting what is available in the mid and late war arenas. I think all arenas would get a bunch of use. Team C should have to make gains in the early or mid wars to bring their victory to fruition in the late war. The arenas need to be linked.

A team would have to win the war in the late war arena. But things they do in the early and mid war arenas would affect what is available to win the late war arena. Strategy would become a lot more important and ALL arenas would be important. No question - all three arenas need to be  strategically linked. Like chess- you have the opening, mid game and end game, but in AH, have them all going on at once.

I think it would work, solve all the problems and open up new strategic possibilities and remove the synthetic "eny"

Think about this. I don't know how hard it would be to code, but the possibilities and delightful complications to winning a war would be interesting.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 20, 2006, 07:23:01 PM
I dont know Mugzee...

I dont think HT was saying that Falc is a bad person (I know I dont think he is!), but that huge squads dont really support close personal relationships. Even if you COULD name 100 people on your country, does that mean that your relationship with them that it would be immoral to split you up? I dont think so.

At some point, friendship becomes aquaintance. Both are good, but aquaintances just arent as close. In that sense, moving into another circle (liek flying with another country) BROADENS your circle of aquaintances, it without taking any of them away.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 20, 2006, 07:37:55 PM
As I try to put myself in Falconwings' shoes, I begin to understand another part of the frustration. No matter what you think of BOP, you cant deny that it took a lot of time and invested energy to build it. It's been around a long time. Each person who's joined, even if they since have left the squad or AH, represented a very real relational investment.

And now, the ground has moved under them. Not only has the environment changed, but the dynamic that made the organization possible has totally shifted. Guys who have been there a very long time have to face some fundamental questions about the squad's future.

That cant be comfortable, and I can really understand why there'd be anger. I think I might feel cheated, like somebody changed the rules unfairly. I imagine it would feel like being the world's best turntable manufacturer, and watching the CD revolution happen in front of you.

Not easy at all, and very understandably frustrating.



In a sense, BOP was one solution to the depersonalization of the MA. Falc took anybody in, and gave them a social and support structure in the game. They had fun. That's all for the good. But I wonder if HTC is saying that the large squad answer does not completely solve the game's problems with community, and that something different is needed for the long term.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 20, 2006, 07:53:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 999000
But please explain to me how I don't play nice??

It's a two way street you and Hubs are on, one I'd rather not travel down myself.

The BKs are a very diverse group, our love of heads-up fighter versus fighter ACM being probably the only common denominator. They do not speak for me, nor I for them. I just take exception with us all being lumped together iin any category other than the one I mentioned. I appreciate knowing you know the difference.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: viper215 on September 20, 2006, 08:11:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
FALCONWING: Ask your self one question.

How many members of your squad can you personaly name with out looking at the squad roster.




Why would you even say that???

OK allright ive had it...ill probably get banned from the boards or persona non grata for this but im done. WHAT are you kidding me??? I agree with falcnwng I flew this game to have fun and meet new people...yea I can lose it on 200 sometimes and your WONDER idea of spliting us off from our fiends is really stupid yea STUPID. You made this game so people can have fun  and you fly with people yea lets see how many people you can name from this game without looking at your suscribers roster. Ive made a stand here this game has gone down from here sept 13th. Ok what are you guys going to say now? stop crying and quit already...no im going to stay in this game...yea im going to hate it with this 3 crap arena thing where the sides are REALLY uneaven...yea 30 bish 40 rooks 8 knits 9/20/06 at 4pm YEA thats a fun fight.


:furious
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SuperDud on September 20, 2006, 08:16:03 PM
Nice one. Not overdramatic and to the point. Well played sir.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 20, 2006, 08:17:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by viper215
yea im going to hate it with this 3 crap arena thing where the sides are REALLY uneaven...yea 30 bish 40 rooks 8 knits 9/20/06 at 4pm YEA thats a fun fight.

Viper, are you skipping over much of this thread or do you just want to continue blaming HTC for the unbalanced sides instead of assigning blame for that to the PLAYERS?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Stang on September 20, 2006, 08:21:05 PM
Vipy, take a deep breath, then go finish that algebra homework.

;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: USRanger on September 20, 2006, 08:21:49 PM
Quote
When you can only name 1/2 your squad, I would have to say, that there realy is no way the other 1/2 could be considered friends, wrather only people you have met occasionaly. -HiTech



What the he11 was that?!?  UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!
:mad:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: thndregg on September 20, 2006, 08:23:38 PM
Thanks loads, I'm sure.:huh
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Stang on September 20, 2006, 08:29:42 PM
Hell, I can only name one or two guys in my squad.  Hub for sure... so ugly, how could I ever forget him.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MINNOW on September 20, 2006, 08:34:27 PM
I cant believe I am gonna say this......

But I agree with Falc on this one..

From day one when I first started this game, Its been about the guys I have flown with and the friendships created.

Now as a CO of a large squad... I also have not flown very much in this "modified arena" Setup....  Personally I think it sucks.

Half of my squad is in one arena, 4 are in another and the rest arent even signing on anymore cause of the BS.....

The worst thing is that there arent many good fights, just a bunch of guys in crap planes with an ENY of 30.

I dont know what all it takes to make this game what it is, but to me it seems like at least the OPTION of the new arenas with the old MA would be fun.  Would at least give people the option to do what they want to do instead of just going where you can actually get in.


And yes, I can name the guys in my squad also.... The worst part is naming the guys that are leaving the game cause of this.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 20, 2006, 08:43:47 PM
HITECH:  boy are you insulting...not even to me really

I can assure any BoPs whose CPID i didnt name in the 2 minutes i had to respond quickly after HT challenge that i value their friendship as well....

A little secret for hitech before he breaks his arm slapping himself on the back....about 30 names on the roster have not been active for several months and about 10 are guys who changed cpids and rejoined under their new ones.  There are also about 5 guys who are brand new to the squad since the arena split and i didnt know to name them (dstyve for example)  I am actually closer to 80% in the number of names i produced of BoPs.

I wonder how many players who dont post on the BBS YOU could have named HITECH???  (no looking at your income tables first please)

Well played sir Hitech..you confirm that the community is the last thing you care about...i hope your pursuit of what is financially most rewarding brings you the success you need...

Mugz and simaril and others...thank you for understanding what BoPs under my leadership tried to provide...i have felt i kept many folks in the game who would have left and trained many fantastic pilots who continue to help others.  (would the BKs please let me know which newbies they have trained recently?)  There are so many x-bops still in the game who are awesome peeps..some running great squads modeled after the fun we have...

All good things have to end however...i think insulting my devotion to friendship has been a shock to me...i never asked for recognition...but similarly i never expected derision.:(
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: USRanger on September 20, 2006, 08:56:58 PM
Yeah! Derision!.....I need an encyclopedia.
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/903/violentsmiley044mf2.gif) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 20, 2006, 08:59:41 PM
I know a lot of people don't think I'm the greatest guy in the world, but I can say this: I know all of my friends' names.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Baylor on September 20, 2006, 09:01:46 PM
I can name the players in my squad..Souless(not played for 2 months) and Fester.  

What do I win?
Title: a twisted quote
Post by: yanksfan on September 20, 2006, 09:07:50 PM
Never before in the course of human history have so many, been so screwed, by so few!
 last word i will have on the subject,the game has been changed,for better or for worse,changed.It's all a matter of perspective.Like it or not,lets move on,I personally don't like it,but I wasn't asked and dout i will be.
 So for what its worth,i'll adjust,one way or another,but i will adjust,im taking a breather from the game maybe some time away will help,i'll leave the account open and see how things go.
 I really can't understand how any business person can think they can disreguard the opinions of such a large number of their clients and not feel the effects of that.
 The MA is gone and it aint coming back,no more big furballs, no more big gv battles,no more even matchs, scores have never meant less, its pointless to worry about rank,means nothing at all.
 I just hope,that things work out for all,I hope that the powers that be are as brave enough to fix it as they were to change it.
 And remember players,it's a game!
 And HT,Remember your bussiness is a game!
 And games that aren't fun,don't get played!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Donzo on September 20, 2006, 09:07:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
I know a lot of people don't think I'm the greatest guy in the world, but I can say this: I know all of my friends' names.


Remembering one guy's name is not a big accomplishment.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: mussie on September 20, 2006, 09:18:51 PM
Man this thread just aint gonna die..

To quote what the character Newt from Aliens said when she was saved by hudson from the face huggers in Med Lab after she and Ripley were locked in by Burke....

"Kill it... KILL IT


:p
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Waffle on September 20, 2006, 09:20:25 PM
Hey Falconwing...Did you ever stop to think that the reason HT posted "that you don't know 1/2 your squads roster", and then followed it with "a turkey farm would be more profitable" is the fact that Hitech's shades account has been a BOP for the last year?   Why do you think I left????? :p


Btw- the large squads aren't the problem...it's the "Mission Planner" which allows you to make a mission as large as one of the current arenas to overwhelm the enemys! :rofl
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 20, 2006, 09:23:05 PM
(http://www.ondmis.dk/billeder/forumpics/tryingtobefunny.jpg)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Waffle on September 20, 2006, 09:23:55 PM
Seriously Mangina - I'm gonna kick your arse. Edbert will probably help to.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: fungi987 on September 20, 2006, 09:24:18 PM
WTG HT   your smug remarks towards Falc tells me one thing.

The guy in control of the community doesnt know jack about the community.

Fungi
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: fungi987 on September 20, 2006, 09:27:13 PM
Btw- the large squads aren't the problem...it's the "Mission Planner" which allows you to make a mission as large as one of the current arenas to overwhelm the enemys!

Oh Great Waffle   now HT is gonna ban GHI !!!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 20, 2006, 09:28:29 PM
Are you serious waffle?  I thought the turkey farm comment was curious...but that would be hard to swallow:confused:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: viper215 on September 20, 2006, 09:29:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by fungi987
WTG HT   your smug remarks towards Falc tells me one thing.

The guy in control of the community doesnt know jack about the community.

Fungi



Bet you $20 he cant name 1/2 the people on tis game without lookin at a paper.....how does it feel?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Stang on September 20, 2006, 09:44:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
(would the BKs please let me know which newbies they have trained recently?)
Oh please Falc, I didn't expect this kind of drivel from you.  You know better.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 20, 2006, 09:45:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
Seriously Mangina - I'm gonna kick your arse. Edbert will probably help to.


I took too long finding that pic. It was in response to Donzo's clever post.
Go back to the buffet and be still.
Title: I waited even longer than...
Post by: rshubert on September 20, 2006, 09:58:08 PM
most of the BoPs to get back into this discussion, because I really wanted to give this new setup a chance to work.  Unfortunately, we all seem to agree (but for different reasons) that it DOES NOT WORK.

Hitech, I make my living rolling out various types of control, product tracking, and automation systems.  I would venture to guess that, in the last 25 years or so, I have led or been a team member on more system rollouts than you have game versions, including all the games you have been involved with.  I have seen implementations fail, and I have seen them succeed.  Technically, this implementation is a success.  Politically, however...

You have screwed the pooch on this one.  Here's how:

You failed to secure the most important part of any new system rollout, CUSTOMER BUYIN.  Hell, you didn't even announce it--you just did it.

You failed to plan the rollout.  The lack of the cross-arena features on startup shows that.  The retention and continued problems with the ENY system shows that.

You didn't SELL the idea.  Your vague references to "health of the community" issues don't hold water, without some detail and explanation.  People don't like it when you blow smoke.

I understand that moving people out of their comfort zone is always difficult.  What you did may even be needed.  The way you did it was, to use a term I have used before, arrogant.  I hope it doesn't pull the rug out from under the community, because the community's loyalty is your only real company asset.
Title: Sure its a game
Post by: aerosaber on September 20, 2006, 10:04:47 PM
I know it's a game. It's a military/ semi-historical simulation. I prefer to stay with one country. I'm a Rook, I started as a Rook and will stay a Rook. I think that games like these are also about comrads, honor, and loyalty. I liked flying with people I know, even if our paths crossed on limited occasions.

Common folks, tell me it aint fun to see a freindly icon on the ground or in the air? To Pass along greetings, then fly together. Thats called a community, thats what we had, thats what we need to get back. The new setup is not that bad. I really like the mid-war arena.

I'm sure HT will work this out. I also think we have a rocky road ahead.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 999000 on September 20, 2006, 10:09:42 PM
Viper215, Hitech plays this game very little.. maybe 30 hours in the last year? put his name in the pilot score see what you find....He might not be as familiar with the community as you might think. I've assumed many things in life and been wrong.
999000
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 20, 2006, 10:12:55 PM
Getting back to the nitty gritty -

The problems isn't the arenas themselves, it's the caps, especially on the LW arenas that the overwhelming majority play.

Prime example -

LW1 - One side badly outnumbered.
LW2 - They have the overwhelming numbers.

Combine them, pretty much even.
Happens regularly.

So instead of making things more even, it has made them worse.

Min cap for LW1 needs to be around 350-400, if there is to be a cap of any kind.
I'm also pretty sure that sort of setup would more than likely satisfy EVERYONE.
Leave low caps on the MW / EW if needed. (do they ever get full?)

Apart from that the different arena idea is fine, it's just the implementation that is slightly flawed.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 20, 2006, 10:19:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 999000
Viper215, Hitech plays this game very little.. maybe 30 hours in the last year? put his name in the pilot score see what you find....He might not be as familiar with the community as you might think. I've assumed many things in life and been wrong.
999000


Just a thought, but, maybe they fly under different names (shadez) so they can watch what goes on without being noticed? How much do you think they could observe when they are being bombarded with a thousand stoopid questions about "can I have my perk points back if I disco in a 262?". Think about it, its not a stretch.

If you think HT and Pyro dont know what is going on in their game you are kidding yourself.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 20, 2006, 10:22:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
kite777 (6 years together)
bushlt
fungi987 (3 years)
hotdogmn (3+ years)
shubie      (3+ years)
thundregg
flaydone
airjer      (since awc)
camador
solar10
mctoast
viper215  (too long)
sullie
banshee  (since my first day in air warrior classic) was ban69
usranger
red420
reverand
pops949
rain000
flyy            (since awc rre4 circa 1995)
tcfkas
gary6
mailbox
talonII
POW        (. 3years)
choperen
badcarma
JollyFe
Goaly
99mecinf
UFO
Beagle
2old2fly
Monti       (since awc as well)
Jpeg
Ink
Locochal
Donzo
Cablemender
Bayonet
Worid1
waldo

okay im sure i left otu a bunch but wanted to do this quickly


Good response !
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 20, 2006, 10:32:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Interesting.  The actual quote on the Blue Knights homepage states:

The Blue Knights came into being in April of 1992.
This squad has no ranks, no chain of command, no officers, nor do we have a squad night.  We don't fly missions, we don't drop bombs, we don't take bases.

We fight.
We're good at it.


But improperly paraphrasing it to suit you works too I suppose.

-- Todd/Leviathn


  Actually the BK's squad persona is played out more on the BBS than anywhere else.

  I kinda think of the BK's as the AH Forums squad. :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 20, 2006, 10:40:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Getting back to the nitty gritty -

The problems isn't the arenas themselves, it's the caps, especially on the LW arenas that the overwhelming majority play.

Prime example -

LW1 - One side badly outnumbered.
LW2 - They have the overwhelming numbers.

Combine them, pretty much even.
Happens regularly.

So instead of making things more even, it has made them worse.

Min cap for LW1 needs to be around 350-400, if there is to be a cap of any kind.
I'm also pretty sure that sort of setup would more than likely satisfy EVERYONE.
Leave low caps on the MW / EW if needed. (do they ever get full?)

Apart from that the different arena idea is fine, it's just the implementation that is slightly flawed.


 Thats it kev...keep it on task.  :aok
  EW has been maxed a few times..MW i think never.
PS..currently unemployed lets me keep an eye on the Arena counts constantly. Those that know me know i never sleep!  LOL

  I think you are on the money as far as what would satisfy most of the players feeling the brunt of the change.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 20, 2006, 11:22:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Stang
Oh please Falc, I didn't expect this kind of drivel from you.  You know better.


sorry stang...you know i love you!!!

guess being confronted by hitech when he lets your squaddies spew venom right and left got me flustered...

:aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 20, 2006, 11:27:01 PM
oh and a quick note...i am not planning on quitting...

i may get banned but im not quitting...BoPs will adapt...we always have..

Logged on to main arena to "did you hear Falc quit?"  from nonsquad guys...

"Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated":t
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MIShill on September 20, 2006, 11:31:12 PM
Not to reiterate the point- I am though- another night of two sides ganging up on one. This functionally turns it into an offense- gang- bang side of 70% vs. a defense side of 30%. I know you can "always switch sides" but that only exascerbates the problem because everyone gets tired of 100% defense after a while so nobody switches to the defense side.
-MI-
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 21, 2006, 12:20:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
im not quitting...BoPs will adapt...we always have..


I'm glad to hear that (seriously). With respect though, that should have been your attitude from the begining. If you guys are a tight as you say, and I have no reason to doubt you, you will find ways to get the squad together.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 21, 2006, 12:33:05 AM
There's a reason why MMO games always put "game play may change without notice" in their EULA.  

For those of you that are huffing and puffing trying to blow the house down while crying the sky is falling and quit AH, can I have your stuff?  Figure I can sell all the knock off flight gear on eBay for some beer money.


ack-ack
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 21, 2006, 12:38:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
I'm glad to hear that (seriously). With respect though, that should have been your attitude from the begining. If you guys are a tight as you say, and I have no reason to doubt you, you will find ways to get the squad together.


  Actually i havent read that Falc was quiting anywhere.



Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
Well i have stayed off the boards for about 4 days and the same guys are insulting in here..let me address some concepts here....


1)  Hordes are "safety nets"

Large squads are not safety nets...they are groups of guys who like each other and like to hang out...flying with a purpose is not a bad thing..in fact it adds to some folks' gameplay.

2)  Furballing is superior to basetaking

Im sorry but neither are great or realistic...they are both arcade...no ww2 fiter pilot lived if he insisted on slow turnfiting multiple enemy aircraft...and i dont know of any air force base capture mission ever.  so both are artificial non-historical ways to have fun.   i.e. noone wins this argument...even if you type longer or insult better...they are both gamey and there are tricks to both that can be easily taught and used.

3) your just mad because you can't fly the la7

Here is the secret from playing long before there were la7s....THERE IS ALWAYS A BETTER PLANE....and that better plane will always be denigrated for being better and frustrating others....already in EW arena you can see this and the NEW insults...HOicane...Picking 190a5...Porking ju88's...in airwarrior with a similar planes set there were constant insults between "B-n-Zers" and "Turnfiters"...

so what i boils down too for me is this...i play to hang out with my friends (many guys i have flown with for over 4 years)...i have known more about their day to day lives then i have some of my real life friends...hell we have had 3 members die and that was hard as well...

my squad has grown large not by design but by the fact that we laugh and joke and goof around and dont take ourselves too seriously..but mainly because we sincerely like each other...Hitech created this large arena concept..we just grew within it.

But on Sept 13th the game completely changed...i compare it to playing everquest and havign it switched to world of warcraft...my main reason for flying as much as i did has been compromised.  That is why i am angry..i could care less if they did away with base takes or la7s...im upset because they created a barrier to seeing all my friends...i think anyone even in smaller squads knows what i mean...

I have flown less in the last week then i have flown in 9 years...and that was not a purposeful statement on my part..its a sincere lack of interest...what made this game great was the comraderie...this game will never and can never compete with xbox graphics or stand alone RPGs...what it does offer is the opportunity for true friendships.


Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
kite777 (6 years together)
bushlt
fungi987 (3 years)
hotdogmn (3+ years)
shubie      (3+ years)
thundregg
flaydone
airjer      (since awc)
camador
solar10
mctoast
viper215  (too long)
sullie
banshee  (since my first day in air warrior classic) was ban69
usranger
red420
reverand
pops949
rain000
flyy            (since awc rre4 circa 1995)
tcfkas
gary6
mailbox
talonII
POW        (. 3years)
choperen
badcarma
JollyFe
Goaly
99mecinf
UFO
Beagle
2old2fly
Monti       (since awc as well)
Jpeg
Ink
Locochal
Donzo
Cablemender
Bayonet
Worid1
waldo

okay im sure i left otu a bunch but wanted to do this quickly


Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
oops forgot dog398 who is also slycer

beagle if if orgot him onother list

also some new bops i forgot would be gghost and phenom

jpeg too if i forgot him
thrila..miss spork...but he has been MIA


Want to do this with how many bishops i can name?:aok


Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
HITECH:  boy are you insulting...not even to me really

I can assure any BoPs whose CPID i didnt name in the 2 minutes i had to respond quickly after HT challenge that i value their friendship as well....

A little secret for hitech before he breaks his arm slapping himself on the back....about 30 names on the roster have not been active for several months and about 10 are guys who changed cpids and rejoined under their new ones.  There are also about 5 guys who are brand new to the squad since the arena split and i didnt know to name them (dstyve for example)  I am actually closer to 80% in the number of names i produced of BoPs.

I wonder how many players who dont post on the BBS YOU could have named HITECH???  (no looking at your income tables first please)

Well played sir Hitech..you confirm that the community is the last thing you care about...i hope your pursuit of what is financially most rewarding brings you the success you need...

Mugz and simaril and others...thank you for understanding what BoPs under my leadership tried to provide...i have felt i kept many folks in the game who would have left and trained many fantastic pilots who continue to help others.  (would the BKs please let me know which newbies they have trained recently?)  There are so many x-bops still in the game who are awesome peeps..some running great squads modeled after the fun we have...

All good things have to end however...i think insulting my devotion to friendship has been a shock to me...i never asked for recognition...but similarly i never expected derision.:(


Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
Are you serious waffle?  I thought the turkey farm comment was curious...but that would be hard to swallow:confused:


Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
sorry stang...you know i love you!!!

guess being confronted by hitech when he lets your squaddies spew venom right and left got me flustered...

:aok


Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
oh and a quick note...i am not planning on quitting...

i may get banned but im not quitting...BoPs will adapt...we always have..

Logged on to main arena to "did you hear Falc quit?"  from nonsquad guys...

"Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated":t


Yep...im sure of it.

Hubs. Maybe if you spent less time trying to be provoking, insulting, flame baiting, flame trolling and ridiculing. You might actually be an asset to the issues at hand.

I for one wish you would just shut your keyboard/mouth if all you can do is  provoke people to anger.

It is very obvious that you have nothing more to offer on the subject than an attempt to get a rise out of anyone that you can.


 A "Glad to hear it Falcn" woulda done nicely.

;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MWL on September 21, 2006, 12:52:52 AM
Greetings,

  After a week (of fairly constant flying) I have had fun 2 nights.  After a couple of nights, the bloom is off the rose.  Flew with a some friends one night.  Even switched side to even out the population in the MW arena.  

  What have I found?
    The EW arena is just as bad as I remember the MA  for disrepectful comments on 200.
    Self appointed Kings want to establish artificial rules in on what is manly and what ain't.  I ended up squelching 200.
    MW arena vacant, tought to find a fight on 2 or 3 nights.  
    LW, just like old MA.

  Of course, I tend to fly the 110 in the EW and 47s in the LW, would be okay if I could find a wingie to clear my 6 once in a while.  However, there ain't that much cooperation anymore.

  What made this game the most interesting was the interaction with the people and the sense of team work.

  Am I gonna quit AH?  No.  I like the concept and want to stay with it.  besides, I really like FSOs and want to participate in a scenario!  

  Am I gonna go look for another game to play a couple of days a week?  Maybe I need a break, so yes.

Regards,
Title: Re: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Clutz on September 21, 2006, 02:01:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro


Why did you make this change?

We made this change because it will allow us to support an unlimited amount of players in a much healthier online environment that gives us better long-term growth.  The single MA has grown to the point of being unhealthy.  This is not a subjective evaluation, it is quantifiable and they are numbers that we look at every day.  It’s obvious that we simply cannot keep pumping more players into a single arena without hitting a stagnation point.  

I have been working on my pc so I just found out about this format change.


Sorry Pyro, but this whole paragraph sounds like a load of dribble to me. Its just a bunch of words with only a vague meaning at best. My college English teacher would have just put a big red X threw the whole thing. It seems obvious to me AH has an agenda they are not sharing with us. And that is their right I'm sure. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

But can anybody tell me what was "unhealthy" and how this change might  make it more "healthy"? Also, what is this "stagnantion point" they are talking about? I just don't get it. I'm just curious is all.

First thought that crossed my mind is that this change means no more Fighter Town. Dangit. Fighter Town was the best fun and now its gone.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FrodeMk3 on September 21, 2006, 02:16:40 AM
I was sitting back and thinking to myself..."Wow, Frode, almost all of AH has posted on this thread."(scrolling over the now 16 pages on this topic)"Jeez! If all these guys were to get together at an AH convention right now...blood would be running in the gutters!" Really. I mean, I've seen monkey**** fights at the zoo with less screaming, insults, flung poo...and then it dawned on me. Hitech and Pyro were letting this all take place. They have been monitoring the boards, responding to different people...they have been letting this go on, even though it has broken some of the rules of posting in the thread. I sat up bolt upright. Quite by chance, I'd happened over a thread in the announcements...You know, the one that people never look at. It was asking for Alpha testers. on 9/8/06. CT is swinging into gear...Arena's have been reconfigured, allowing for some space on the server. Hitech, I would just have to ask...Is this whole thing to keep attention away from CT? I know that people have been bugging you about it, and that you are looking at possibly getting some new accounts with it...I can understand that right now, It is in a delicate phase, so that you might want to keep the community preoccupied with something else. But, I would ask, If you look at the smoldering wreckage of this thread, If it was worth fighting a war to start a battle? We would all like to see the finished product...We don't really mind being kept in the dark about it. If you ask, we'll keep our mouths shut. If one of the things that had to be done for the developement was to split up the MA...We would all be for it. But, please don't destroy the community to hide CT from us, It will be considerably tarnished when it's finally unvailed.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Jackal1 on September 21, 2006, 03:27:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
I was sitting back and thinking to myself..."Wow, Frode, almost all of AH has posted on this thread."(scrolling over the now 16 pages on this topic)"Jeez! If all these guys were to get together at an AH convention right now...blood would be running in the gutters!" Really. I mean, I've seen monkey**** fights at the zoo with less screaming, insults, flung poo...and then it dawned on me. Hitech and Pyro were letting this all take place. They have been monitoring the boards, responding to different people...they have been letting this go on, even though it has broken some of the rules of posting in the thread. I sat up bolt upright. Quite by chance, I'd happened over a thread in the announcements...You know, the one that people never look at. It was asking for Alpha testers. on 9/8/06. CT is swinging into gear...Arena's have been reconfigured, allowing for some space on the server. Hitech, I would just have to ask...Is this whole thing to keep attention away from CT? I know that people have been bugging you about it, and that you are looking at possibly getting some new accounts with it...I can understand that right now, It is in a delicate phase, so that you might want to keep the community preoccupied with something else. But, I would ask, If you look at the smoldering wreckage of this thread, If it was worth fighting a war to start a battle? We would all like to see the finished product...We don't really mind being kept in the dark about it. If you ask, we'll keep our mouths shut. If one of the things that had to be done for the developement was to split up the MA...We would all be for it. But, please don't destroy the community to hide CT from us, It will be considerably tarnished when it's finally unvailed.


The CT conspiracy of 2006. :rofl
Skuzzy wasn`t on the grassy knoll.
He was in the depository when he tripped over the cord.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 21, 2006, 03:50:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1
The CT conspiracy of 2006. :rofl
Skuzzy wasn`t on the grassy knoll.
He was in the depository when he tripped over the cord.


Lol or is that suppository?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Sloehand on September 21, 2006, 04:20:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
Sloe,

I agree that there are many tastes, and different ways to enjoy this game, and that none of them are inherently right versus wrong, although the incessant gangbanging is close to being always "wrong" in my book. I agree with a large portion of what you wrote, and aside from the "yapping" comment, thought it was reasonable and rational and without insult. I have no problem with winning the war types, or buff drivers, or GVers. I roll 99.99% of my sorties in single engine fighters, you fly/drive whatever makes you happy. I just am happy to see steps being taken to encourage fairness in numbers/planetypes is all. The modest enticements did not work, it took years for that it to be realised that it was not working, so stiffer measures were taken. Only time will tell if they are sufficient or not, I expect it might take 3-6 months to know for sure.

I guess the only things you and I have to add or disagree on is the issue of those who choose "loyalty" to their chesspeice over fairness and then complain about ENY since they do in fact have a choice in the matter. If you choose to fly on the side with overwhelming numerical superiority then you should not complain about ENY, simple as that. Whining about a choice you made is just silly.


Edbert & Simaril, et al -

My apologies if I edged towards insult to anyone, but in this frustrating debate (both the topic and the medium in which it is conducted) its hard not to pick up some of the... um, colorful invectives and tone used by others.  In serious discussions I do try hard not to go off the deep end.

I also appreciate and respect your comments and opinions, and I spent some time thinking about it.  And, what you say is not totally unreasonable viewed from one perspective, but I don't think my points are either, or that they are that uncommon within the community.
 
It's hard to explain what makes it near impossible for some people to change sides.  Right or wrong, for me and I think others, the "loyalty' element is part of what makes this game fun for us.  It's an important factor in, and an extension of, the concept of teamwork, cooperation and achievement of a common objective.  All of which is part of this game.  Alot to the structure of AH that not only allows, but encourages this.  So it seems paradoxical for HiTech and others such as yourself to say what essentially sounds like, "forget the loyalty thing, just jump sides" or "go to another arena.  Don't help your friends or squaddies here, just go away."  I guess we can't get you  understand how inherently offensive that can be.  It's like saying to someone, "you don't really count.  You're enjoyment or concerns about he game are less important than anyone else."

I don't want ANYONE to suffer under an extreme numbers imbalance in an arena, even for a moment, though it can't ever be completely avoided.  Truthfully, I always prefer an even and fair fight to see if I (or my team/squad, etc) can meet the challenge.  I've come to believe that it may not be possible to really manage it without serious detriment to everyone.  I just don't know.

What I do know is that the new format, which as a concept I initially favor, has been implemented with some serious flaws.  I'm not one who says abandon it completely.  I like having choice, which is why I hate being forced out of playing where, when and the way I want for any reason.  Especially, when others are getting to play their way while I'm not.  

I do like the idea of reducing the MA numbers down a bit, I just think a 250 limit in the LW (or any arena) isn't really helping and is too extreme.  In fact, it's doing just the opposite of help the arena numbers, given the other problems that have arisen that make the imbalance significantly worse, not better.  

Or, put another way, the more extreme changes in numbers (on a percentage basis), and greater freguency of fluctuation in the ENY do to the arena limit is, in itself, getting very disruptive to the gameplay now.  For some this is not a problem, but for many it is.  Some like a reasonably stable gameplay for at least longer than three minutes... or less, and think some higher level of stability in gameplay than we have now is necessary.  Additionally, I don't think the Mid-war Arena is really necessary... yet, and may also be contributing the increased imbalance problem by splitting the players up too much.  The new format simply needs some serious tweaks,  not necessarily abandonment.

As an example, during one 20 minute period I stayed in the hangar checking between the roster (for country #'s) and the ENY limitation.  With roughly about 125 to 150 people in the arena (unevenly split, of course), I watched as the change of even one person in or out of the arena on any side immediately changed the ENY for my country by 1 point.  I watched the ENY repeatedly bounce up and down in those 20 minutes from 9 to 26.  It changed at least 14 times in that period.  I don't ever remember such a wild fluctuation up and down under the old MA in so short a time, or for so long a period.  It continued more or less that way for a couple of hours.  

This meant no one could know from one minute to the next, and back again, what kind of aircraft was available to them.  I spent more time trying to find an aircraft that would do the mission I wanted to do, and that would meet the ENY, than I did actually flying.  I know the ENY must go up and down, but it was just too mercurial to do any mission planning, and too annoying trying to sustain a consistent defense or attack.  And this situation has occurred every day in the LW for extended periods of time.

I spent two days playing in the LW (and I usually play 2 to 5 hours nearly every day), where I got to take up all of maybe four Niki's the entire time.  Yesterday, it got better, but I worry that the situation will reoccur too often and for too long.  I fly other planes as well, but by and large enjoy the Nikki the most.  I don't have to be in it all the time (and I'm usually not), but I'd like to fly it alot more than I think I'm going to get to as things stand now.  Getting to fly it is part of why I play the game.   Why shouldn't I expect to get that choice, as I have for a year and a half?  If that's taken away by the new scenario, why shouldn't I be upset and voice my complaint?  But since the Niki (and some others) are only available in the LW, not being able to take up a prefered aircraft at least half (heck, even a quarter) of the time you are on, is an undescribable pain.

I agree we must expect some change in the game over time, but there is such a thing as too much shock to the system.  And while we know some of the mechanisms of the game do require that we be flexible as we play, on the other hand, people have come to expect some stability in the experience.   But the now greater fluctuations during play are more annoying than helpful.  For alot of us, it's just not that fun, and I think that is more the norm for most players.  

To go further on the ENY problem, at one point, we could not take up any main battle tank, so we defended against multiple panzers and tigers with Osti's and M8's, and no ordinance.  It was admittedly an interesting, though frustrating experience.  However, it's the type of thing that's maybe fun once, but quickly becomes terminally annoying as you realize you're totally helpless to defend.  And this has happened twice so far that I know of.

I don't believe ENY was intended to make one side pretty much defenseless like that, but I could be wrong.  Since this occured during our squad night, changing sides was really not an option.  And after an hour or so of this, people started to leave and squad night ended early.  Believe me, people REALLY complained afterward about it, and still are.  If you don't understand why this is a bad thing for everyone, then I can't explain it to you beyond what I've already said in previous posts.

Now, I don't know about others, but I find something inherently wrong in any solution that requires people to leave where they want to play, and go somewhere else that to them is second best.  I don't believe people will like being forced out like that, or having their plane choices limited that much or that often.  Especially if they can't understand or accept the reasoning for it.  

And if it actually turns out that HiTech doesn't care whether some of it's players stay or go, well, that's so stupid and wrong, I don't even have the words for it.  The only other business that I know of that can afford that kind of callous attitude towards it's customers involves Controlled Substances.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Baylor on September 21, 2006, 04:56:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING


"Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated":t


Thats a good tune...Rise Against is the poo
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 21, 2006, 06:55:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
.

And now, the ground has moved under them. Not only has the environment changed, but the dynamic that made the organization possible has totally shifted. Guys who have been there a very long time have to face some fundamental questions about the squad's future.

That cant be comfortable, and I can really understand why there'd be anger. I think I might feel cheated, like somebody changed the rules unfairly. I imagine it would feel like being the world's best turntable manufacturer, and watching the CD revolution happen in front of you.
 


Right on simaril:aok   except as a long term flight sim veteran i would have to compare this to being the best CD player manufaturer and having the government insist we return to turntables.  

1.   Air Warrior was played using this sort of model..small arenas....setup encouraging more small battles...limitd numbers per arena...but there were still "megasquads" "hording" and such.  even then we liked it...but we hadnt known any better setup.   The setup we just left (large MA) was better for squad fun...BoPs always had 15-30 guys on each night...lots of funny chatter and relaxation on vox..im sure other squads were similar...guys joined us because it was fun...not because one night a week we organized and rolled some bases.

2.   I have asked for years for maps with only limited number of bases that could  be taken...to remove in essence the ability to "win" a war.   this alone would have helped the "horde" issue by removing the tactics needed for capture and preventing one country being "rolled".  it may come as a shock but our tatcics were developed years ago when bish were always outmanned and we had to recapture bases quickly to avoid "reset".

3.   This change was too rushed....they keep saying they have been planning this for a long time...well where are the arena appropriate maps???  Air Warrior used small maps with limited nearby fields and a central 3 airbases (like fiter town)...they had increased strat targets so buffing had its own life.  instead we have the same "rollable" maps with areas of large distances between fights and lower player numbers to fill those distances.

But simaril your reply was thoughtful and much appreciated. i too have put myself in the other guys shoes and tried to respect their gameplay.  we did not capture fitertown or tanktown as part of our missions because i NEVER purposefully tried to ruin another man's fun.  BoPs also rarely contributed to gangbanging a country...when nits numbers were down over the last year we flew almost exclusively against rooks as they were the bigger threat and fielded the better respnses.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 21, 2006, 07:00:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Baylor
Thats a good tune...Rise Against is the poo


hehe...im sure they are but i was quoting Mark Twain;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 21, 2006, 07:54:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Actually the BK's squad persona is played out more on the BBS than anywhere else.

  I kinda think of the BK's as the AH Forums squad. :)



OK, now THAT'S funny!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mystic2 on September 21, 2006, 07:58:28 AM
Having flown for the last week trying to give this new setup an honest evaluation, I find that its not getting better.  Our squad emails are filled with complaints over the fact that we cant fly together as we did in the old MA, it takes forever to find fights, and when you can find em, you cant fly the plane you want due to ENY.  As a squad, we always tried to make things interesting, if numbers were low on one country, we would fight the other to keep from "hording".  Granted, even tho we are one of the larger squads, consisting of 3 wings, we usually only fielded about 15-20 at our peak hours.  Now we are lucky if we can get 3-6 together due to all of the restrictions....
From talking to people all over the game, the general concensus is simple..... There needs to be a fix and quickly.  I have friends that have played this game for several years that are considering leaving.   HT needs to find a way to fix this and quickly, or he stands to lose a once great game.  And for the record,  not everyone is looking forward to the new CT...... JMHO
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 21, 2006, 08:09:44 AM
OK, lets leave the right or wrong of it aside for a minute.


The arena changes have happened. They are there, the MA is history. I strongly suspect that when HT made the change he knew there's be a ruckus, and he was completely prepared to weather the storm without flinching.

I also stroingly suspect that there are things going on in the background, future changes maybe, that would make this seem more reasonable to even the biggest doubter.


But the current setup is the REALITY. It is, quite honestly, VERY unlikely to change.

How will the community make the best of it?

Imbalances HAVE been bigger since implementation. But that is absolutely not HT's fault. He's made it clear that we have the freedom to choose sides, and he's given us progressively stronger incentive to do so. He's said that games should be (roughly) fair and even.

Those of you who have for years held strong allegiance to one side have some important questions to answer to yourselves.  

Alliegance to a country is fine; is it more important to you than fairness to others? Is it important enough to leave the game?

Even if you cant bring yourself to switch, are you going to formbid squadmates to flip back and forth, if their feelings arent so strong?

Are you so commited to your country that you'd risk HT implementing something really nasty, like forced side balancing? Remember, his priority is making the experience best for the 4000+ subscribers, not just for your squad.




Things are different. We WILL have to change. The only question is, how much change will it take, and who will end up making the change happen.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 21, 2006, 08:17:58 AM
I don't know falc...  I know him by his avatar and his posts.

He  calls himself and his illegal squad the "fun police"... he is anti fun.. he gives his location as "under your mom"

he brags about ruining others fun with the ability to cheat the squad numbers which....

He claims are 80-100 of his closest friends in life of which... he can't even name and has probly never met but a dozen of.

He goes apopleptic if he thinks he is being insulted or if some game element ruins his fun...  maybe HT could call himself the "fun police" and then it would be all good?

He speaks of loyalty and, with catch in  voice and tear in eye, talks of the "community" of taking undefended bases with 90 of his blood brothers and life partners yet... can't name half of em and at the same time.... is pretty much shutting himself..... and them... from the other 5000 players who are every bit as good a guys.

His style of play is no play at all...  to ruin gamepay... he might as well be playing a boxed game or... a football game where he and his 10 buddies are against 1 bad guy who lives on the next block that they will never get to know.

I don't want to be part of his boring whorde and I don't want to be steamrolled by it.

The mega squads are bad for the community.   period.   Why have a 32 limit if a few squads can cheat it so easy?

in all this time I have never seen two base taking whordes run into each other and fite.   I have fought some of the whorde members... they are amung the worst players in the game.  They aren't any good and they will never get better in the whorde.

he threatens to quit and then in the next post takes it back.... Like I said.. don't know the guy but.... from the posts and, mostly, the way he plays the game ...  don't want to.   I used to say that I never met a flight sim guy that I din't like when we met... this new breed of mega squad guys....  not so sure if that is true now.

Those who will not play honorably and who are cheating the rules need to have their behavior modified.   If they quit cause they can't cheat anymore....  I for one won't miss em.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Cable on September 21, 2006, 08:29:32 AM
Quote
in all this time I have never seen two base taking whordes run into each other and fite.


Well, if 13 people constitutes a "horde," and 16 people coming the opposite direction constitutes an opposing "horde," then what you never see happened twice last week.  And there was a helluva good fight, both times.  Happens more than you think it does.


Adopting a "switch sides to be fair" thing is dreaming.  For every one who'd switch to balance a fight, there's another who would switch to the numbers side to have advantage.  That's just how people are; some will always pursue the easy, less-work option.

It would be nice if it could be that way, I grant you that, but the reality is that people won't.  Before this change people could have done that on the nights Rooks (for example) would hold a 50-70 person advantage and already owned 75% of the map... but they never did, did they?

Falconwing IS a great advocate for this game, and it was pathetic to see such a poor attempt to slight him over naming squad members.  Not only Falc, but a lot of others in the Bops work to encorage fun and good game play.  Schubie, for example, loves to do missions with the older plane sets and it isn't horde base takes.  Might just be a mission to go pork ord near a CV or get rid of an invading CV.  ThunderEgg, Flaydone, and many of the others are good folks who teach people and encourage others.  Flayd spent many hours working on a map that gave everyone from furballers to gv-ers a place and posted his work-in-progress on the bbs and couldn't even get an answer for months on whether it was good/bad/workable.  Seems like whenever guys try to help make it more fun, the answer is ignore them or ridicule them.  Nice community we have here.

These guys post a mission it draws people like a magnet, and it could be to deliver the mail to a base and it wouldn't matter.  People flock to their missions because they are fun and the guys themselves are fun to fly with.  Course, we can't have that - it doesn't fit the template. :rolleyes:

It has to be ONLY to roll undefended bases with large numbers against nothing. :rolleyes:
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: zorstorer on September 21, 2006, 08:49:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I don't know falc...  I know him by his avatar and his posts.

He  calls himself and his illegal squad the "fun police"... he is anti fun.. he gives his location as "under your mom"

he brags about ruining others fun with the ability to cheat the squad numbers which....

He claims are 80-100 of his closest friends in life of which... he can't even name and has probly never met but a dozen of.

He goes apopleptic if he thinks he is being insulted or if some game element ruins his fun...  maybe HT could call himself the "fun police" and then it would be all good?

He speaks of loyalty and, with catch in  voice and tear in eye, talks of the "community" of taking undefended bases with 90 of his blood brothers and life partners yet... can't name half of em and at the same time.... is pretty much shutting himself..... and them... from the other 5000 players who are every bit as good a guys.

His style of play is no play at all...  to ruin gamepay... he might as well be playing a boxed game or... a football game where he and his 10 buddies are against 1 bad guy who lives on the next block that they will never get to know.

I don't want to be part of his boring whorde and I don't want to be steamrolled by it.

The mega squads are bad for the community.   period.   Why have a 32 limit if a few squads can cheat it so easy?

in all this time I have never seen two base taking whordes run into each other and fite.   I have fought some of the whorde members... they are amung the worst players in the game.  They aren't any good and they will never get better in the whorde.

he threatens to quit and then in the next post takes it back.... Like I said.. don't know the guy but.... from the posts and, mostly, the way he plays the game ...  don't want to.   I used to say that I never met a flight sim guy that I din't like when we met... this new breed of mega squad guys....  not so sure if that is true now.

Those who will not play honorably and who are cheating the rules need to have their behavior modified.   If they quit cause they can't cheat anymore....  I for one won't miss em.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


I don't know where to start with this sophmoric attempt at a slight.

It's now like little kid yelling at another kid "no, you are!!"

Try better next time laz, not much water left in the bucket ;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 21, 2006, 08:50:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Actually the BK's squad persona is played out more on the BBS than anywhere else.

  I kinda think of the BK's as the AH Forums squad. :)

That wasn't always true, we used to have 10-12 guys online at a time, and I'm sure you'll admit that having 6-10 BKs in one place at one time had an affect on whatever area. It was glorious, guys came out of the weeds to whack us, or die trying.  Definitely made for some fun fights and long-lived furballs, at least until some whittle generalz came along and whacked all the FHs.

But now, considering how many of us have burned out on the MA -style of whording and simply play less, on been PNG'ed, or are now running around as scantilly-clad female elves in MMOLRPG-land, or flying phag-jet sims, or being the star-wars-nerds in another MMOLRPG-land....you may be close to accurate there Mugz. On a good night I'll see 2-4 of us online, often only see myself, and I am also to blame for the decline, I'm only logging a few hours a month too. We still hang out on the BBS, and this thread aside, I bet >50% of my posts are in the private forum.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MINNOW on September 21, 2006, 08:51:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

in all this time I have never seen two base taking whordes run into each other and fite.   I have fought some of the whorde members... they are amung the worst players in the game.  They aren't any good and they will never get better in the whorde.



Well.... I know for a fact my squad and Falc's squad fight all the time.... The battles are a blast.

Being a former BOP, and knowing most of those guys... I think its kind of unfair that the finger is being pointed directly at them. They arent the only mega squad in this game but they are the most effective...

For 2 years now all I have heard is how people have to play the game their way cause someone elses way isnt the "right" way....

At least in the MA you could find "Your" way....

Falc & Bops....
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 21, 2006, 08:51:57 AM
start anywhere zorstor... I'm up for it.  Oh wait...  you got nothing.   Maybe you can get all your buds together and come up with something?

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Donzo on September 21, 2006, 08:52:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I don't know falc...  I know him by his avatar and his posts.

He  calls himself and his illegal squad the "fun police"... he is anti fun.. he gives his location as "under your mom"

he brags about ruining others fun with the ability to cheat the squad numbers which....

He claims are 80-100 of his closest friends in life of which... he can't even name and has probly never met but a dozen of.

He goes apopleptic if he thinks he is being insulted or if some game element ruins his fun...  maybe HT could call himself the "fun police" and then it would be all good?

He speaks of loyalty and, with catch in  voice and tear in eye, talks of the "community" of taking undefended bases with 90 of his blood brothers and life partners yet... can't name half of em and at the same time.... is pretty much shutting himself..... and them... from the other 5000 players who are every bit as good a guys.

His style of play is no play at all...  to ruin gamepay... he might as well be playing a boxed game or... a football game where he and his 10 buddies are against 1 bad guy who lives on the next block that they will never get to know.

I don't want to be part of his boring whorde and I don't want to be steamrolled by it.

The mega squads are bad for the community.   period.   Why have a 32 limit if a few squads can cheat it so easy?

in all this time I have never seen two base taking whordes run into each other and fite.   I have fought some of the whorde members... they are amung the worst players in the game.  They aren't any good and they will never get better in the whorde.

he threatens to quit and then in the next post takes it back.... Like I said.. don't know the guy but.... from the posts and, mostly, the way he plays the game ...  don't want to.   I used to say that I never met a flight sim guy that I din't like when we met... this new breed of mega squad guys....  not so sure if that is true now.

Those who will not play honorably and who are cheating the rules need to have their behavior modified.   If they quit cause they can't cheat anymore....  I for one won't miss em.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


You throw that "c" word around quite liberally....HT you listening?

Explain to me how anyone is "cheating squad numbers"?  

It's nothing more than a bunch of guys getting together on a vox channel and doing things together.  Hell, most of the time everyone's on the same vox channel but they are doing their own thing.  

There is no "cheating squad numbers" as you say.  Squads are limited to 32 players and I do not see any squads exceeding that number....do you?
So what if different squads decide to hang out together and on occasion do something together?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 21, 2006, 08:58:28 AM
so donzo... these guys who claim to have 40-100 guys in their "squad(s) are what?  Lying?

You do realize how silly your use of semantics here is?   they are gaming the squad limits pure and simple.   to me that is a form of cheating.   Is that clear enough?  

I guess if you can do it then it isn't cheating but... I have seen people get away with other forms and eventually it got shut down because it was bad for the game.   I think the mega squad it just another example of a bad idea...  a loophole that needs to be fixed.   They are maybe more of a bug but a cheat...

But.... what do you call someone who exploits a bug?  and brags about it.... and then whines when it is addressed?

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: lazs2 on September 21, 2006, 09:01:28 AM
anyhow... this is getting repetitive...  I have not changed my mind and have stated all my reasons.   I will not respond to this thread anymore.

what I had to say is out.   what the megasquad and "fun police" had to say it out.

Anyone reading the thread has more than enough of this to think about.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Donzo on September 21, 2006, 09:18:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
so donzo... these guys who claim to have 40-100 guys in their "squad(s) are what?  Lying?

No, not lying.  Maybe it is more accurate to say that the BoP are a collection of legal squads in AHII.  


You do realize how silly your use of semantics here is?   they are gaming the squad limits pure and simple.   to me that is a form of cheating.   Is that clear enough?  


The only thing clear enough is your warped logic.  What is the difference between what you perceive as a problem and a bunch of guys getting together and doing something as a group?


I guess if you can do it then it isn't cheating but... I have seen people get away with other forms and eventually it got shut down because it was bad for the game.   I think the mega squad it just another example of a bad idea...  a loophole that needs to be fixed.   They are maybe more of a bug but a cheat...


What's your suggestion for a fix?  Eliminate squads?  So what...what's to stop a group of guys all in the default tower cooking something up on range vox while in the tower.  Afterwards they decide to move as a group somewhere else.  See any difference there?


But.... what do you call someone who exploits a bug?  and brags about it.... and then whines when it is addressed?


I see no bug.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's [/B]



Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
anyhow... this is getting repetitive...  I have not changed my mind and have stated all my reasons.   I will not respond to this thread anymore.

what I had to say is out.   what the megasquad and "fun police" had to say it out.

Anyone reading the thread has more than enough of this to think about.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


OMG, are you a woman?  

That sounds just like a response I'd get from my wife once a valid point has been made that there is not a response to.

"I will not respond to this thread anymore.

what I had to say is out. "

Please, give me a break.  You seem to always have plenty to say...just not this time?  After something logical has been thrown your way?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 4510 on September 21, 2006, 09:22:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
so donzo... these guys who claim to have 40-100 guys in their "squad(s) are what?  Lying?

You do realize how silly your use of semantics here is?   they are gaming the squad limits pure and simple.   to me that is a form of cheating.   Is that clear enough?  

I guess if you can do it then it isn't cheating but... I have seen people get away with other forms and eventually it got shut down because it was bad for the game.   I think the mega squad it just another example of a bad idea...  a loophole that needs to be fixed.   They are maybe more of a bug but a cheat...

But.... what do you call someone who exploits a bug?  and brags about it.... and then whines when it is addressed?

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


Whether it is separate squads that agree to work together (think Rook Joint Ops) or an organization that is large and calls itself one squad.. what is the difference?

What we are seeing in all of this is a human nature and fundamental flaws in the game design... at least as it relates to human nature.  You aren't going to get a level playing field unless you mandate specifically how many people can be in an arena, force which side they come in on, if someone logs, and unbalances the sides, someone on the high side gets ejected, etc.  

:O

So the next best thing is for folks to be vocal and make sure that "their" brand of AH is represented.  With this change I think the pure "ACM" ( and I use that term loosely) folks get what they want and the large arena folks get what they want.  The cap limits.... obviously trying to break old habits... or afraid that if they are returned to higher limits ... the grand experiment will fail.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Viking on September 21, 2006, 09:36:31 AM
I like the new Arenas. :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: BTW on September 21, 2006, 09:40:11 AM
People complaining about large squads mustn't have been around for DOS Air Warrior. The Musketeers--)------------------ were an enormous squad if you figure there were only about 150 people flying.

You want 20 member squads with 1200-1500 people flying?

Just who here is kidding themselves?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hitech on September 21, 2006, 09:45:13 AM
FALCONWING:

1st I realy didn't itend for you to try post your members, hence why I said ask yourself the question.

2nd The question was in no way ment to insult, degrade, or say you are not loyal to your friends. The question was ment to show basic human behavior.

That behavior is realy simple, once a group grows above a certain number, they are no longer all a close group of friends. And once again ask yourself, do I realy belive someone is a close friend, (dosn't mean you have any ill in anyway to them) if I can not name them. I would once again sugest that the people you could not name are realy just people you wish could also be your friends, but they are realy not your friends, just people who could be.

That statement is in no way a slander on your squad. It is mearly a simple fact proven by my original question.  Because you could not name them is not in anyway an insult to you, I'm sure you wish you could know all them personaly. And that is the hole point, when a group gets to big ,people can not realy form close personal bonds with everyone. A person just does not have the time to perform the interaction required with everone.

It apears to me ( I could be wrong) is that you belive, enorder to remain a llarge group, you must all fly together. My guess is that on a squad night, you could have 35 - 50 peole wishing to fly.

Let me make a sugestion, break your orinzation into 3 groups, chosen by your members. Then have each group choose a different country, or roll some dice for the country.

Now on squad night  you might just have great fun fighting missions against eachother. Notice your still the group, your still all flying together, you can still call yourselves the same thing, all wanting to have fun in the same way. Now you can even have fun bantering back and forth about the outcomes.

And finaly, do you realy belive loyalty to your squad should outway the needs of the rest of the AH community?
My guess would be that you do not belive that. But your current arguments about," my large squad should be able to do what they wish just like they used to ", yes that a very liberal paraphrase, and I know that isn't what you realy belive, but your arguments have been comming across that way.

To simply put my postion, at this time the needs of the many "All AH Players" are outwaying the needs few "Your Squad"

HiTech
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Bogie603rd on September 21, 2006, 09:57:47 AM
My goodness, I think this is the fastest growing thread I have EVER seen on any forum.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: T0J0 on September 21, 2006, 10:06:46 AM
Last night was first time in new format...

Went early war, good even knife fights, no yelling on range channel, no La-7 hords urining on my fun.... Most fun I have had in a year...  I used to login, spend a couple sorties never finding an even fight and then just logout in disgust...
Best change I have seen so far, I look forward to actually flying this weekend for a change... Nice Job HT..

OP. The large squads are ruining the game play so I view the arena caps as a great idea if it breaks up the hord squads somewhat. "again is OP"

Snapshot was a blast as well even with the disorganization....
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 21, 2006, 10:11:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Now on squad night  you might just have great fun fighting missions against eachother. Notice your still the group, your still all flying together, you can still call yourselves the same thing, all wanting to have fun in the same way.

Yes! You can still have your fun, you can share vox, you can run missions, you can get 30-50 guys, but if you try to get 50 guys all on one side you'll have to pay the price of the ENY.

Seriously, give it some time, give it a try. Some of the best squad nights I've ever had were fighting amongst ourselves, I can assure you I almost always come out on the short end with those guys too.

This game is big enough and diverse enough for everyone to have their brand of fun, unless it involves gaming the game or greifing the rest of the community. The change just makes it much harder to continue to have their brand of fun at the expense of the rest of the players.

===============

Bogie, look up the Voss thread sometime, it holds the AH-BBS record. On other forums I have seen threads that last for years and have millions (!) of posts.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: scottydawg on September 21, 2006, 10:16:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bogie603rd
My goodness, I think this is the fastest growing thread I have EVER seen on any forum.


You obviously have never seen a political thread on fark.com.  Proof-positive that the internet makes you stupid.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: rod367th on September 21, 2006, 10:16:37 AM
Dale   idea of three arenas is great, Except for 1 reason Knights do not have numbers during day to compete is 3 arenas. Have i changed to nit to fight horde yes. but alot don't want to be on losing side. I think a 2 sided game with 2 new team names would solve problem. Then both sides have to fight instead of bish , rooks ganging on 3 nits in arenas.



 You have to make 2 new team names. that way no whining always been a NIT bish or rook. Make arenas 2 sided but not axies allied. That will force teams squads to even fight. No bullying little guys... but than i only have a penny so my 2 cents not worth it...............
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Oldman731 on September 21, 2006, 10:19:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Cable
Seems like whenever guys try to help make it more fun, the answer is ignore them or ridicule them.  Nice community we have here.

Please re-read that.

Simaril, chief among others, has pleasantly and repeatedly tried to make the point that the change has occurred; that change would occur sometime in the future, anyway; and that there's no going back.  Yet these boards are STILL full of "please change it back" posts.

It's not going to get changed back.  You know it, I know it.

Instead of complaining about that, why not "try to help make it more fun"?  Everyone can agree that that is a worthy goal.

- oldman
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 21, 2006, 10:47:09 AM
Change is scary. It's a lot easier to sit here, threaten to quit, and then insult everybody who doesn't agree with you than it is to embrace something new and different.

But, what do I know? I'm a BK. I'm no asset to the community. I'm just a customer who has a singular interest in having fun in a game.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 21, 2006, 11:03:22 AM
Won't even begin to get into it with Laz...he knows what i think of him and his groups behaviors...enuf said

As for "cheating" or "exploiting"...please show me the rule book here..i am lost..sounds like someone created a rule just to spew more venom.  there had to be a cap on how many get invited into a group..pick a number..make it low or high...that has nothing to do with how guys choose to associate themselves....there have always been Bish, Knit and rook coalitions and they will continue...give them a formal name or not they exist.  Noone is cheating.:rolleyes: multiwing squads existed in AW and were here when BoPs moved to AH.

If you want to defeat the purpose of forming coalitions then change the objectives of the game...again i formally ask for base taking to be removed. people do what is fun...im sure if all there was left was fighting then people would follow what is fun and smaller engagements would more naturally ensue...the reason to use large numbers is because currently it only takes a few pilots to stop a base take...the way to overcome them is to overwhelm them...thats why you need large numbers (you could also have a timer to prevent constantly reupping so when you kilt someone they couldnt showup 2 seconds later and need to be killed again...that would take away the need for overpowering with large numbers)

and Hitech..noone is stopping us from dominating an arena now.  We can choose any arena we want and choose to fly there...it will just be harder to stop us unless we distort the balance enuf for eny to hurt us.  As i have said...BoPs will adapt...i dont think there are any of us that are too stressed about it...feel free to visit our forums..i know some of you guys are registered their as users...noone has done anything but come up with ways for us to work thru this...we only field about 25 a night so the caps dont limit us...but it may not be great for wherever we choose to work unless Minnow brings his squad there as well.

minnow and VMF..those fights were great..hope you fly some more...fiind the arena we choose to work in and fire it up.

My postings here have more to do with the community at large because i do miss seeing other bish squads we associate with...and some of my members who fly different arenas...

BTW i cant even name all my office staff...or all the doctors at the hospital but i still value them and their association with me.  In real life i would be very upset as well if the Administration said..you should only have "x" number people on staff because there is no way you can know them all intimately...it would hinder growth and the "opportunity" to discover how great some of them are.  

i never said everyone in my squad were my "best" friends in the world...but i do value a suprisingly large number of them given that this is a virtual world.  I have plenty of friends in the real world and acquaintances..but i wouldnt start refusing to answer acquaintances phonecalls or go to their parties becuz i had to "concentrate" on a select few.  would you?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: doc1kelley on September 21, 2006, 11:19:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
so donzo... these guys who claim to have 40-100 guys in their "squad(s) are what?  Lying?

You do realize how silly your use of semantics here is?   they are gaming the squad limits pure and simple.   to me that is a form of cheating.   Is that clear enough?  

I guess if you can do it then it isn't cheating but... I have seen people get away with other forms and eventually it got shut down because it was bad for the game.   I think the mega squad it just another example of a bad idea...  a loophole that needs to be fixed.   They are maybe more of a bug but a cheat...

But.... what do you call someone who exploits a bug?  and brags about it.... and then whines when it is addressed?

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


When I first came here there were several "mega squads" and we didn't hear this blaming the demise of the game on them then.  You now are violating the rules of the bbs with impunity with your accusations of "c**ating".  Then you degress into the well if it isn't that, it's bad for the game and I guess next you'll want to ban folks from flying together as a group of not more than how many folks?  Yes Laz, how many people do you want the game to limit to fly in proximity to each other now and just what are the limits of the proximity?  This is clearly an immature rant on your behalf against those that aren't playing the game "YOUR WAY".  This is NOT Burger King although you surely wish it that way, it's just not and never will be.  You wonder why most of us just hate the BK's, it's because of the childish rants and insults and just pure venom that comes from a few of you guys.  Let's talk about the bug you are now claming it to be... A squad is limited to X amount of players and is set by HTC, say they limit it to 4 and you have 12 guys that used to fly together and they will now make three squads and still fly together, what you gonna do about it?  You are gonna accuse them of gaming the game.  Your arguement is the most outlandish drivel that I have seen here.  You want a first person shooter game using an airplane, a one on one all the time or an occasional few others just to throw into the mix.  Go find you a solitary game that you can just fight one player and be done and leave us in peace.  Now let's address your claim of those who have stated that they have members of squads in excess of the technical 32 person limit on a squad.  You are correct,  as no squads have more than 32 players, It's semantics at play, they are actually wings, a collection of several different squads into a wing.  Do you remember Manx's 4-wing?  It was here when I came back in 2002.  We still consider ourselves a squad even though our total numbers might at any given time online exceed the 32 single squad limit.  Sue us!  We like to fly together, we have fun together, it's not your fun, it's ours and we like it that way.  We can be limited by the cap of people in an arena at any given time, but it cannot change the game as a whole.  By your collection of post on this subject, the only recourse is to change the entire game to be nothing but a dueling arena with limitations that will only allow you to pick your one on one fight against who you choose.  That will not get it!

My only complaints on the recent changes are that the cap in the arenas are too small and the ENY needs to be redone, other than that... I have no complaints.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hitech on September 21, 2006, 11:33:31 AM
FALCONWING: Would you try manage 90 people directly, or would you break them into smaller manigible units, if so why?

That smaller unit is what a squad is all about. What you have called a squad, but realy it is more a group or wing in ah structure.

And once again this has nothing to do with the value of aquantences.


HiTech
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SlapShot on September 21, 2006, 11:35:12 AM
awDoc1 ...

Back in the day I use to fly with a Mega-Squad ... the MAW ... three wings of 32 ... and flew for the Knights (they still do)

On squad night, we would have close to 40-50 squaddies on at the same time.

If we went offensive, there was another Mega-Squad on the Bish that took great pride in trying to thwart our offensive push ... they were the Arabian Knights. Many times we would launch and on the "All" channel, we would say where we were going to attack ... just so the AKs and others would come and fight us.

If we went on the defensive, there was another Mega-Squad on the Bish that took great pride in trying to capture our bases ... they were the Arabian Knights. Many times we would hear the the AKs were at field blah-blah and we would launch an all out defense to stop them.

Such is not the case these days ... Mega-Squads, for the most part, don't want to run into each other ... they want to attack areas of the maps where they don't run into great conflict so that they can capture bases faster than greased lightening so that they can be the pivitol point in winning the war.

Had Mega-Squads taken the attitude of the MAW and the AKs of years gone by, this problem might not have reared it's ugly head ... but such is not the case and here we are ... and here we will stay ... with the new changes.

My only complaints on the recent changes are that the cap in the arenas are too small and the ENY needs to be redone, other than that... I have no complaints.

Check out my thread where I have put forth an idea that just might help solve the population max.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187937
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: doc1kelley on September 21, 2006, 11:55:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
FALCONWING: Would you try manage 90 people directly, or would you break them into smaller manigible units, if so why?

That smaller unit is what a squad is all about. What you have you call a squad, but realy it is more a group or wing in ah structure.

And once again this has nothing to do with the value of aquantences.


HiTech


Yes HT, it's true.  The BOPS actually only fly together on a given squad night, all other times our members are free to do their thing, some of us like to GV, some Buff and some just fly fighters and we have a great time.  The main thing is we have only two rules and that is we do fly together on squad night and we don't switch countries.  That makes it pretty well balanced.  We are NOT a structured wing, we have specialist and we bring them together once a week to put their skills together.  Oh, you'll find us flying together in small groups in different areas of the map on any other given time but never as a whole as it would be unmanageable all the time.  You'll find us fighting both sides at any given time other than a two hour period once a week.  We have been demonized in this thread as a "horde" and our "wing" just doesn't fit that description at all.  The majority of our "wing" started out together in AW and have drifted from squad to squad throughout the years and have found each other in here, the natural successor to AW but have also absorbed the refugees from some other wannabe communities that have failed to make the cut.  The bottom line is the "horde" is nothing more than a security blanket and it more embraced by new folks than any other because our community has NOT responded in embracing new folks into our culture.  Yes, we have trainers (I salute them), there aren't enough of them to go around and not enough hours in the day for them to be online.  The "horde" problem is NOT the mega squads, as most of em only are engaged in a single objective for a few hours at a time on a given day.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: doc1kelley on September 21, 2006, 12:09:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
awDoc1 ...

Back in the day I use to fly with a Mega-Squad ... the MAW ... three wings of 32 ... and flew for the Knights (they still do)

On squad night, we would have close to 40-50 squaddies on at the same time.

If we went offensive, there was another Mega-Squad on the Bish that took great pride in trying to thwart our offensive push ... they were the Arabian Knights. Many times we would launch and on the "All" channel, we would say where we were going to attack ... just so the AKs and others would come and fight us.

If we went on the defensive, there was another Mega-Squad on the Bish that took great pride in trying to capture our bases ... they were the Arabian Knights. Many times we would hear the the AKs were at field blah-blah and we would launch an all out defense to stop them.

Such is not the case these days ... Mega-Squads, for the most part, don't want to run into each other ... they want to attack areas of the maps where they don't run into great conflict so that they can capture bases faster than greased lightening so that they can be the pivitol point in winning the war.

Had Mega-Squads taken the attitude of the MAW and the AKs of years gone by, this problem might not have reared it's ugly head ... but such is not the case and here we are ... and here we will stay ... with the new changes.

My only complaints on the recent changes are that the cap in the arenas are too small and the ENY needs to be redone, other than that... I have no complaints.

Check out my thread where I have put forth an idea that just might help solve the population max.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187937


SlapShot
It's an interesting idea.   As far as the mega squads thing, yes I remember the MAW and AK fights, we also have them as we had some leave the BOPS and form the Angry Inches who went to the LGA and we have consistantly been fighting each other for the last two months and have had great fights and has been for mucho fun on squad nights.  Our "mega-Squad" or "wing" doesn't look for undefended terriroty to capture, we look for some fight and fun.  Who wants to RTB with no kills?  Who just wants to shoot a sitting target on the runway?  Not me!  It's been more challenging to us fighting against old squaddies that went rook in that they know our tactics and it makes it much more challenging.  This whole mega squad thing is smoke and mirrors as it isn't what the "horde" is made of.  

I hope some consideration is given to your thoughts on the population problem that you put forth in your thread.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 21, 2006, 12:15:17 PM
A question for the BOPs.

The other night, things were heavily out of balance it the MW. There was a brief 200 discussion (not a flame war!), and a squad or two shifted to the low side.

There was a lone BOP on, wont even recognize the name if you told me. He said, "I'd come over, but I'm in BOP and we're not allowed to leave Bish. If we ever do, we're not welcome back into the squad."

Comments?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: doc1kelley on September 21, 2006, 12:17:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
A question for the BOPs.

The other night, things were heavily out of balance it the MW. There was a brief 200 discussion (not a flame war!), and a squad or two shifted to the low side.

There was a lone BOP on, wont even recognize the name if you told me. He said, "I'd come over, but I'm in BOP and we're not allowed to leave Bish. If we ever do, we're not welcome back into the squad."

Comments?


Yes it's true, I wasn't there but the BOPS have only two rules, You fly together on squad night, and don't have to any other time and you cannot switch countries.  It's been those rules since back in AW.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 21, 2006, 12:25:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by doc1kelley
Yes it's true, I wasn't there but the BOPS have only two rules, You fly together on squad night, and don't have to any other time and you cannot switch countries.  It's been those rules since back in AW.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1


In the current environment, what purpose does this rule serve?

How does this have ANYTHING to do with community, friendship, etc? Can you honestly say that the guys who chose to fly for a different chess piece cannot be worth knowing -- that "If you're HIS friend, you can't be MY friend?"

I'd argue that attitudes like these fracture the community FAR FAR more than the arena changes ever could.

It seems to me that its nothing more than a control, a power issue.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 21, 2006, 12:29:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I don't know falc...  I know him by his avatar and his posts.

He  calls himself and his illegal squad the "fun police"... he is anti fun.. he gives his location as "under your mom"

he brags about ruining others fun with the ability to cheat the squad numbers which....

He claims are 80-100 of his closest friends in life of which... he can't even name and has probly never met but a dozen of.

He goes apopleptic if he thinks he is being insulted or if some game element ruins his fun...  maybe HT could call himself the "fun police" and then it would be all good?

He speaks of loyalty and, with catch in  voice and tear in eye, talks of the "community" of taking undefended bases with 90 of his blood brothers and life partners yet... can't name half of em and at the same time.... is pretty much shutting himself..... and them... from the other 5000 players who are every bit as good a guys.

His style of play is no play at all...  to ruin gamepay... he might as well be playing a boxed game or... a football game where he and his 10 buddies are against 1 bad guy who lives on the next block that they will never get to know.

I don't want to be part of his boring whorde and I don't want to be steamrolled by it.

The mega squads are bad for the community.   period.   Why have a 32 limit if a few squads can cheat it so easy?

in all this time I have never seen two base taking whordes run into each other and fite.   I have fought some of the whorde members... they are amung the worst players in the game.  They aren't any good and they will never get better in the whorde.

he threatens to quit and then in the next post takes it back.... Like I said.. don't know the guy but.... from the posts and, mostly, the way he plays the game ...  don't want to.   I used to say that I never met a flight sim guy that I din't like when we met... this new breed of mega squad guys....  not so sure if that is true now.

Those who will not play honorably and who are cheating the rules need to have their behavior modified.   If they quit cause they can't cheat anymore....  I for one won't miss em.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


Lets try not to cloud the truth.

As I see it. Falcs "Fun Police" logo was simply a twist of comedy after years of you and players like you and incessantly whining and crying about your fun being taken away. Falc is 100x the person/ gentlemen you could ever dream to be. So can it.

What? you think i am the only one that sees that you spend 99.8% (estimate) :P of your time trying to find a legal angle to insult ppl in the BBS?

Dont make me start copying and pasting the last 200 of your replies in one place. ;)

Then again...anyone that is honest and rational knows this to be factual already.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: doc1kelley on September 21, 2006, 12:30:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
In the current environment, what purpose does this rule serve?

How does this have ANYTHING to do with community, friendship, etc? Can you honestly say that the guys who chose to fly for a different chess piece cannot be worth knowing -- that "If you're HIS friend, you can't be MY friend?"

I'd argue that sttitude fractures the community FAR FAR more than the arena changes ever could.

It seems to me that its nothing more than a control, power issue.


I cannot explain this now, as this has been a rule since I was first a BOP in 1996 or so, times have changed and changed in a very dynamic way just recently and may or may not involve changing this rule, but I'm not the one who decides these things and it was recently  endorsed by the majority of the membership as of two weeks ago in an unrelated incident.  I'm sure it will be looked at by our membership closely in the very near future.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 21, 2006, 12:49:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
FALCONWING: Would you try manage 90 people directly, or would you break them into smaller manigible units, if so why?

That smaller unit is what a squad is all about. What you have called a squad, but realy it is more a group or wing in ah structure.

And once again this has nothing to do with the value of aquantences.


HiTech


HITECH:  as i addressed in an above post..we probably only have 60ish active BopS...perhaps to help people i can have my wing leaders clear out the rosters but a lot of guys showup after 6 mos of inactivity so we dont purge often

and again as i have already posted..on most nights we field about 20 players at a time...there are probably about 35-40 that cycle thru over 5pm to midnight est but in general around 15-20 are on channel at any given time.

except for mondays at 9-11pm est we dont have organized missions.  most nights there are 8-10 that are doing something organized...buff missions...base retakes...defending a field.  the only times i can think that we are really working hard together is if the bish are being pressed hard and we need concentration of forces to survive.  

i dont find 20 people hard to interact or coordinate with...but again we are mostly having funny conversations and joking about.

porbably 25% of BoPs are loners who do their own thing but like the chit-chat and remain on channel...they come when called or on squad night...but they are not mission joiners etc.

in essence, if i understand CT properly, then we are an existing form of that style of play that i do for free.  BoPs log on and ask what we need done and i'll ask them to up here or there or pork troops, grab an m3, etc.
I think that is what people like..comraderie and a sense of purpose to their hour on...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: BaldEagl on September 21, 2006, 12:49:55 PM
A few more observations:

It's probably due to the small maps but it's hard to find anything other than furballs going on now.  It used to be that I could find some nice one on one or one on two fights somewhere on the map.  Not anymore.

It's also difficult to do any type of high altitude bombing on these maps.  There's rarely enough room to get to altitude with a loaded bomber.  And speaking of high altitude bombers, doesn't the lack of 163's and 262's leave HQ vulnerable in the EW and MW arenas?

Speaking of the EW and MW arenas, it looks as though there really isn't much of a ground game.  The only tank available is the T-34?  Really?  Everyone used T-34's early in the war?  I thought Hitler blitzed Europe and Poland with Panzers?  Evidently not.  Evidently he used U.S. built T-34's.

One last thing.  If you click on an arena to go in and it's full or becomes full as you click to enter do you have to CTD?  Can't some kind of arena full message pop up so you don't have to re-launch the whole game?

No anger, no threats, just observations.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 21, 2006, 12:51:47 PM
when i say people..i am obviously referring to my squaddies and not everyone in the game..i undersatnd that everyone flies for different reasons
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 21, 2006, 01:02:53 PM
Falc --

What is your take on the "Never anything but Bish" rule?

Doc gave his thoughts, and implied that it might be worth reconsidering with all the changes.

Simaril
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 21, 2006, 01:03:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
In the current environment, what purpose does this rule serve?

How does this have ANYTHING to do with community, friendship, etc? Can you honestly say that the guys who chose to fly for a different chess piece cannot be worth knowing -- that "If you're HIS friend, you can't be MY friend?"

I'd argue that attitudes like these fracture the community FAR FAR more than the arena changes ever could.

It seems to me that its nothing more than a control, a power issue.


Simaril i respectfully disagree...flying with friends is what it is..i have plenty of friends on other "chess pieces" and they often come across and wing with me or they me and i do the same.

Noone was ever forced to join BoPs...we dont even recruit...when people ask the rules are explained and they are also told that you dont have to join to use our ch.  some choose to..some dont...many bish visit our ch all the time and so do friends from other countries.

I exert no "power"...but i also dont like treating this game in a manner that i consider to be arcadelike...if someone chooses to be on my team...then those are my boys...thats who we get to know...

If two football team showed up to play and one was stronger then the other...would you insist they swap players untiil there is statistical parity???  when one trained and worked hard to be a good team and the other just demanded that the "injustice" be corrected?

please dont feel the need to belittle our structure because there are inherent flaws in the design of these arenas...there are plaenty o f games like tribes/quake where you can play "pick up".  its the consistency in here that made it special.

you are right that i cannot begin to get to know 5000 people..so i choose to limit the ones i do get close to and hence my enjoyment.   i feel like i am getting hammered from both sides....is it "no way you can feel close to 90 guys" or is it "you must get to know 5000"?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 21, 2006, 01:03:48 PM
My apologies to Hubsonfire.

In an earlier post i replied to Grits

Quote
Originally posted by Grits
I'm glad to hear that (seriously). With respect though, that should have been your attitude from the begining. If you guys are a tight as you say, and I have no reason to doubt you, you will find ways to get the squad together.



With a long list of all of falcs post on this thread and a few fronm thread #1

folowed by........................... .........................


Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee



Yep...im sure of it.

Hubs. Maybe if you spent less time trying to be provoking, insulting, flame baiting, flame trolling and ridiculing. You might actually be an asset to the issues at hand.

I for one wish you would just shut your keyboard/mouth if all you can do is  provoke people to anger.

It is very obvious that you have nothing more to offer on the subject than an attempt to get a rise out of anyone that you can.


 A "Glad to hear it Falcn" woulda done nicely.

;)
\

Was supposed to be directed at grits
Sorry Hubs.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 21, 2006, 01:13:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Change is scary. It's a lot easier to sit here, threaten to quit, and then insult everybody who doesn't agree with you
 than it is to embrace something new and different.But, what do I know? I'm a BK. I'm no asset to the community. I'm just a customer who has a singular interest in having fun in a game.


Ya think?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hitech on September 21, 2006, 01:21:11 PM
Quote
they often come across and wing


So if BOB's have a no change country rule, do you not see the major issue here, some one else has to change country to wing with you? But god forbid the bob's do the same?

And falconwing: I realy wish you would answere Simaril question.

What you answered was not your thoughts on the rule, nore how it did anything good for the game or your squad. All you said was I have lots of friends who will wing with me even thow they are not in the squad, and nothing about the change country rule. You also implied (even thow it might not be the case) The friends must wing with me, I won't ever change countries to wing with them.

HiTech
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 21, 2006, 01:33:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I don't know falc...  I know him by his avatar and his posts.

He  calls himself and his illegal squad the "fun police"... he is anti fun.. he gives his location as "under your mom"

he brags about ruining others fun with the ability to cheat the squad numbers which....

He claims are 80-100 of his closest friends in life of which... he can't even name and has probly never met but a dozen of.

He goes apopleptic if he thinks he is being insulted or if some game element ruins his fun...  maybe HT could call himself the "fun police" and then it would be all good?

He speaks of loyalty and, with catch in  voice and tear in eye, talks of the "community" of taking undefended bases with 90 of his blood brothers and life partners yet... can't name half of em and at the same time.... is pretty much shutting himself..... and them... from the other 5000 players who are every bit as good a guys.

His style of play is no play at all...  to ruin gamepay... he might as well be playing a boxed game or... a football game where he and his 10 buddies are against 1 bad guy who lives on the next block that they will never get to know.

I don't want to be part of his boring whorde and I don't want to be steamrolled by it.

The mega squads are bad for the community.   period.   Why have a 32 limit if a few squads can cheat it so easy?

in all this time I have never seen two base taking whordes run into each other and fite.   I have fought some of the whorde members... they are amung the worst players in the game.  They aren't any good and they will never get better in the whorde.

he threatens to quit and then in the next post takes it back.... Like I said.. don't know the guy but.... from the posts and, mostly, the way he plays the game ...  don't want to.   I used to say that I never met a flight sim guy that I din't like when we met... this new breed of mega squad guys....  not so sure if that is true now.

Those who will not play honorably and who are cheating the rules need to have their behavior modified.   If they quit cause they can't cheat anymore....  I for one won't miss em.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


Lol, that has to be the biggest pile of horse manure you've ever spouted.
No, you obviously don't know Falconwing.

You think adding terms like "honorably" give your drivel any more credence or weight?
I don't, it's just a poor attempt at trying to justify it.

[edit] As I have said many time to you, just because players don't play the game the same way or with the same objectives as you, doesn't make you right and them wrong. Shame your honor OR courtesy doesn't extend that far.

HT/Skuzzy - I apologise in advance if you feel this post is too 'raw', but enough of the BK "holier than thou" attitude already.
[edit off]

Hey Laz, maybe if we all quit you can go play with yourself ;) .
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 21, 2006, 01:40:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
Simaril i respectfully disagree...flying with friends is what it is..i have plenty of friends on other "chess pieces" and they often come across and wing with me or they me and i do the same.

Noone was ever forced to join BoPs...we dont even recruit...when people ask the rules are explained and they are also told that you dont have to join to use our ch.  some choose to..some dont...many bish visit our ch all the time and so do friends from other countries.

I exert no "power"...but i also dont like treating this game in a manner that i consider to be arcadelike...if someone chooses to be on my team...then those are my boys...thats who we get to know...

If two football team showed up to play and one was stronger then the other...would you insist they swap players untiil there is statistical parity???  when one trained and worked hard to be a good team and the other just demanded that the "injustice" be corrected?

please dont feel the need to belittle our structure because there are inherent flaws in the design of these arenas...there are plaenty o f games like tribes/quake where you can play "pick up".  its the consistency in here that made it special.

you are right that i cannot begin to get to know 5000 people..so i choose to limit the ones i do get close to and hence my enjoyment.   i feel like i am getting hammered from both sides....is it "no way you can feel close to 90 guys" or is it "you must get to know 5000"?


First, I see where you're coming from, Falc. But I think you're being unnecessarily antagonistic. I never belittled you or yours....


Even so, I think your response may be revealing. My question was about squad rules, not about how you prefer to play; but you transitioned from what YOUR SQUAD has to do to what YOU want out of the game. Also with all due respect, those are not the same thing at all.

I'm really asking if its necessary for you to exert your CO power to ask your squaddies to limit themselves that way. Sure, they knew what they were getting into when they joined, but what that rule really does is to force applicants to choose between their desire to join, and any desire they might have to fly with other friends. The guys who join decided for BOP, but....would it be so harmful to the squad if they got to do both? Even though you obviously chose to always be bish?


I dont think you're being fair or even realistic when you use your sports analogy. Your description fits pretty well for an AH scenario, adn in that situation you're right.

But in the regular arenas, what's the joy in dsiciplined teamwork when no one else responds with the same? When 20 BOPS decide to attack, and there's no organized resistance (just random uppers), how can that be a measure of skill? Wouldnt it be more satisfying to measure yourselves against a real opponent of near equal strength? And if the BOPS are the best team squad (as ou seem to imply), whats so wicked about wings hitting wings?

To use your sports analogy: I have been in situations where my soccer team either outmatched, or was outmatched by opponents. And yes, I have forfeited games, and asked the other guys to divvy up so the kids can have some fun playing instead of jsut getting their faces rubbed into their inferiority. That's not arcadish, its sportsmanship.

I hear you say BOTH that the BOPS are all about having fun, AND that you're so seriously into winning the war that playing for another side efven once means you can never come back. So which is it -- fun or intense competition?


I've never cared what other squads do, figuring "to each their own." But times are different now. Squads that remain rigid about stuff like this hugely warp the arena balance for all of us, and thats a problem. We all need to adjust, in little ways and maybe in big ways, or decisions will be made FOR US. Just look at some of the other threads to see what I mean.

The old days WILL NOT come back. Arena limits WILL NOT go high enough to let 60 member big wings join a country without problems for everyone. It seems to me that a little flexibility may go a long way.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: thndregg on September 21, 2006, 01:41:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING

I think that is what people like..comraderie and a sense of purpose to their hour on...


THAT is EXACTLY why I subscribed. :aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 21, 2006, 01:55:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by thndregg
THAT is EXACTLY why I subscribed. :aok


Those are great things.

But why must they only be on one country, even if staying on that country robs everyone else in the game of the chance for fun?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Waffle on September 21, 2006, 01:58:17 PM
Walks in to the LSA meeting (Large Squads anonymous)

"Hello - my name is waffle - I used to be a B.O.P."  :)



Anyway - when I was in the Bops, the Sqaud was getting to big for the 32 player limit. So we were trying to figure out how to deal with that.

I proposed we follow the tried and true route of a 32 player squadron, broken down into 2 flights of 16, with that getting broken down into 4 elements of 4 players with those going down to 2 flights of 2 wingman each.

I was figuring that would allow the older guys to become leaders on one level or another, and then let the new guys fill in under them.  Anyway, the whole idea was that you'd get to know your wingman and the flight of 8 the best, because you'd try to fly with them on most nights. Then on Squad nights, the entire Wing would get together and run large missions.

I don't see anything wrong if a squad devlops like that over time. I dont see anything thing wrong with a group of people in a "wing" that has 3 squadrons of 32.

I don't see anything wrong with a country organizing a Mission using the mission editor and launching a large attack against an enemy. If more countrys used the mission editor instead of flying around in circles, there'd be more fierce battles.

You can't blame / label a large squad flying together any different than a 70 player mission being run by one country out of the Mission planner. Even if that squad switched countrys They'd still fly the same way..together.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 21, 2006, 01:59:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Was supposed to be directed at grits
Sorry Hubs.


Yeah, I figured that, but I still dont understand where you were going with all of Falcons posts. Did you think what I said was disrespectful or untrue? All I meant to say was that I was happy to see Falcon wasnt leaving, and that I thought he should have focused on how to adapt his squad to the new environment from day one[/b] instead of continuing this dead-end discussion. I dont see how that was disrespectful.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: E25280 on September 21, 2006, 02:04:25 PM
My unsolicited thoughts on a squad remaining bish / rook / nit whatever and making it a rule:

A simplified way of putting it, without dictating a particular country, is that we are a squad.  A squad is a team.  

In a team, you work together, not against each other.  Therefore, there is no place in a team for someone who will actively work against the team, for any reason.  Thus, no one on my team should ever switch sides.

Either the whole squad moves, or none of us does.  That would be my take.

Besides, in my squad's particular case, the second anyone saw an LTAR somewhere besides Bish, the screams of "Spy" would be deafening.  My ears couldn't take it.;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 21, 2006, 02:07:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by thndregg
THAT is EXACTLY why I subscribed. :aok

You did so by choice...of your own free will...and if the ENY hits you guys just remember...it is by your choice and of your own free will.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 21, 2006, 02:23:18 PM
Mugz
   When you make a good point with me, I'll acknowledge that point. Until then, you're just arguing to be difficult, not to demonstrate a better point of view. I'm not personally insulting, and if you do not wish to hear my opinions on a particular topic on an open discussion board, I suggest you put me in your ignore list.

And yes, I could have said "glad to hear it", but I really don't care. If anyone insists on encouraging a type of gameplay or an attitude that is damaging to the community, and makes it difficult for others to enjoy their own type of fun, then I'm not going to pretend to be pleased that they will neither quit nor change their ways.

Good day.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: E25280 on September 21, 2006, 02:31:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
If anyone insists on encouraging a type of gameplay or an attitude that is damaging to the community, and makes it difficult for others to enjoy their own type of fun, then I'm not going to pretend to be pleased that they will neither quit nor change their ways.
Yet, you put up with Lazs?:huh




:rofl
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: viper215 on September 21, 2006, 02:42:21 PM
Your not going to change the rule bops will be staying bish...you jump your out thats the way its been.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: doc1kelley on September 21, 2006, 02:45:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Mugz
   
And yes, I could have said "glad to hear it", but I really don't care. If anyone insists on encouraging a type of gameplay or an attitude that is damaging to the community, and makes it difficult for others to enjoy their own type of fun, then I'm not going to pretend to be pleased that they will neither quit nor change their ways.

Good day.


I'm sorry but this is the most blatant example of the Pot calling the Kettle Black that I've seen.  I thought you posted that you had quit because we weren't playing your way, I guess your back now that you are being able to play your way.  The BK's strike again...sheesh...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SlapShot on September 21, 2006, 03:01:20 PM
WOW ... hold parapharasion Batman.

He quit cause he believed the gameplay SUCKED ... simple as that.

The game has now changed ... and it doesn't SUCK as much as it use to ... from his point of view ... and alot of other peoples point of view too.

Many who have gone ... and have been gone for awhile ... have now come back because of the recent changes.

It was HT that made the change ... not Hub ... not the BKs ... and not anyone else who voiced disgust in the gameplay prior to the recent changes.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 21, 2006, 03:07:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by viper215
Your not going to change the rule bops will be staying bish...you jump your out thats the way its been.


I guess I dont understand why "the way its been" 'or "the way we want it" should outweigh the needs of others.  

Why should what you guys are used to somehow be so righteous and unchangeable that you won't adjust , even if it causes pain to yourselves (like ENY) and to everyone else (with massive side inequity).
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 21, 2006, 03:10:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by doc1kelley
I'm sorry but this is the most blatant example of the Pot calling the Kettle Black that I've seen.  I thought you posted that you had quit because we weren't playing your way, I guess your back now that you are being able to play your way.  The BK's strike again...sheesh...


Don't confuse what I say with how you interpret it.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 21, 2006, 03:11:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
I guess I dont understand why "the way its been" 'or "the way we want it" should outweigh the needs of others.  

Why should what you guys are used to somehow be so righteous and unchangeable that you won't adjust , even if it causes pain to yourselves (like ENY) and to everyone else (with massive side inequity).


This won't go over well, but I'll call the spade a spade. Because there are 100 of them, and 1 of you, Sim.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 21, 2006, 03:15:12 PM
Sigh...lets try this again.

First off..simaril if im not wrong you were asked out of your squad because you were jumping countries...thats the way i thought it was conveyed to me..apologies if im wrong

Point is BoPs are not the only squad with this rule...in fact most of the squads i know of have a form of this rule...now some will switch all together in rotation...but that is different as well.

The answer to the question HITECH is that is how I (falconwing, mike, solo yo) chose to form a squad.  I chose to form a squad that flew for one country from guys who had commitment to that country.  I elected to setup barriers to guys who jumped to whatever country was easiest.  Again BoP was fired under the furnace that was the MA 2 years ago when Bish were heavily outnumbered.  Please do a search and you will see that i posted in here at that time saying it was no fun being ganged by both countries.  the answer given ( i believe by many of the current posters) was to organize better and have alliances.  This is how we responded.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hitech on September 21, 2006, 03:19:13 PM
Sounds like a good resone for the rule, now use the exat same resone and only change the rule slightly.

You may not change to a country with more numbers.


HiTech
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 21, 2006, 03:27:46 PM
Hey, the BOPs can make whatever squad-rule they want. They can all stay bish/nit/rook for however long there IS a bish/nit/rook, I really don't care. What I DO care about is hearing the complaints that somebody is taking away their choices when the ENY kicks in hard, the rule is their choice, so is flying nothing but TBMs. You choose to overload a certain country then the ENY will make you and all your countrymen suffer for YOUR choices.

I suspect whichever country they fly for on squad night might become a little upset when the other non-BOP squads can only fly TBMs because of a personal choice the BOP squad made though.

Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 21, 2006, 03:30:18 PM
BTW Mugzee, I am insulted to have been confused with Hub. Hub is a tool.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SlapShot on September 21, 2006, 03:31:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
Hey, the BOPs can make whatever squad-rule they want. They can all stay bish/nit/rook for however long there IS a bish/nit/rook, I really don't care. What I DO care about is hearing the complaints that somebody is taking away their choices when the ENY kicks in hard, the rule is their choice, so is flying nothing but TBMs. You choose to overload a certain country then the ENY will make you and all your countrymen suffer for YOUR choices.

I suspect whichever country they fly for on squad night might become a little upset when the other non-BOP squads can only fly TBMs because of a personal choice the BOP squad made though.



If they all can get into the same arena ... DOH !!!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: zorstorer on September 21, 2006, 03:33:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
...Such is not the case these days ... Mega-Squads, for the most part, don't want to run into each other ... they want to attack areas of the maps where they don't run into great conflict so that they can capture bases faster than greased lightening so that they can be the pivitol point in winning the war.

Had Mega-Squads taken the attitude of the MAW and the AKs of years gone by, this problem might not have reared it's ugly head ... but such is not the case and here we are ... and here we will stay ... with the new changes...



I seem to recall hearing this alot, the "Angry Inch" were attacking somewhere on squad vox and then having most of the Bops that were on at the time up and try to stop them.  It was great fun.  I remember some nights 4 hours of flight time were logged either attacking or defending with the angry inch fighting it out.  Not sure where this is going :)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Edbert on September 21, 2006, 03:35:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
If they all can get into the same arena ... DOH !!!


Yeah, got a point there. But if there's 50 of them and they log on from the east coast time zone they should be able to jump into the LW arena before it fills up. They could always log into LW2 though, all 50 of them and share a vox channel to their heart's content. At least that way they would not have a negative imapct on sportsmanship and we wouldn't have to listen to them complain about their personal choices anymore.

==========

...lol @ grits
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SlapShot on September 21, 2006, 03:40:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by zorstorer
I seem to recall hearing this alot, the "Angry Inch" were attacking somewhere on squad vox and then having most of the Bops that were on at the time up and try to stop them.  It was great fun.  I remember some nights 4 hours of flight time were logged either attacking or defending with the angry inch fighting it out.  Not sure where this is going :)


If thats is/was the case then great !!!

My point was that I have seen (many times) ... a Knight horde steam-rolling undefended bases ... a Rook horde steam-rolling undefended bases ... a Bish horde steam-rolling undefended base ... all at the same time ... all avoiding each other ... scrambling to collect bases quicker than the others.

Such was not the case 3 to 5 years back.

In my case ... the MAW was the "protector" of the Knights (at least we felt that way) ... and the AKs were the "protectors" of the Bish ... they assumed the responsibilites to take and defend.

As of late ... most only participate on the "take" and could care less to "defend" ... it's all about who can "take" the fastest, with the most people.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 21, 2006, 04:47:02 PM
So this changed happened to break up the big squads? Is that what I am reading?

Might as well take away our missions, vox, text, and channels cause that is the only way you are going to stop it...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SlapShot on September 21, 2006, 04:50:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
So this changed happened to break up the big squads? Is that what I am reading?

Might as well take away our missions, vox, text, and channels cause that is the only way you are going to stop it...


Sounds like a challenge to HT ... watch what ya wish for.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: zorstorer on September 21, 2006, 05:10:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
If thats is/was the case then great !!!

My point was that I have seen (many times) ... a Knight horde steam-rolling undefended bases ... a Rook horde steam-rolling undefended bases ... a Bish horde steam-rolling undefended base ... all at the same time ... all avoiding each other ... scrambling to collect bases quicker than the others.

Such was not the case 3 to 5 years back.

In my case ... the MAW was the "protector" of the Knights (at least we felt that way) ... and the AKs were the "protectors" of the Bish ... they assumed the responsibilites to take and defend.

As of late ... most only participate on the "take" and could care less to "defend" ... it's all about who can "take" the fastest, with the most people.


I hear you, and it wasn't every night or even on squad night.  It was just usally one of us (bops) killing or being killed by an angry inch that started the "mega" squad fights.  I know for the most part I am usually off doing my own thing, I just enjoyed the back and forth banter with the squad.  Then again I would try to avoid squad nights until "it" was over.  Then it would settle down with 8 or 9 guys on usually when I played.

edit...I always enjoyed the MAW vs AK fights on pizza ;)

That last line of yours is so on, I am amazed how few folks would stay back to defend a newly taken base, even with troops and veh up at the enemy base that spawns in.  Then again the little generals that populate this place really annoy me ;)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Donzo on September 21, 2006, 05:14:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Sounds like a challenge to HT ... watch what ya wish for.



Isn't that what you wish for?  

One big deathmatch?

Here's the perfect furball arena:

No countries...just one.

No killshooter.

No airfields...deathmatch contestants are warped (or born) into the arena at a random alt between 1K and 2.5K going 200 kts.  This brithing area will be an invisible sphere that can only be flown through from the inside out.  

Landing bubbles....just fly in at any speed and it's considered a landing (no use wasting time landing when you could be getting your furball freak on.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 21, 2006, 05:15:24 PM
We seem to be getting BoPs confused with others here...i have never complained about the ENY...i agree with it conceptually and except for the inability for gvs to defend well with it...could really care less...

In fact i liked being outnumbered as bish in EW because you get to have the better planes and it balances out the number thing.  LW seems like it needs tweaking because i honestly dont  think 1 LA vs multiple f4u's or hurricanes makes up for the numbers difference.

And i guess ill state again..im not a deity...i have no special powers...noone has ever been forced to be BoP...free will exists (sorry presbyterians :t ) any player can do anything they want...but if you wish to wear the virtual BoP uniform and wing with us then you dont jump countries...

that being said many can attest to the fact that for those who have chosen to do so..when they return bish they are freely allowed on our channel and can wing with us to their hearts content...

I use the pronoun "I" in my responses about the squad not because I rule with an iron hand but because "I" take responsibility for our actions and decisions.  These "rules" have been hashed out often on our forums and the wing leaders and members have supported them.

Simariil i dont think BoPs need to be the solution to side balancing anymore then i dont think we are the problem.

I would have to guess that the purpose of any squad is to allow a group of folks who enjoy each others company and have similar goals to identify with each other and support each other.  besides one squad..i dont know of any that exist across countries simultaneously as communication and teamwork would be non-existent.  BoPs have often on squad night gone to the DA and split into different sides to furball...so there has always been a venue for that.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 21, 2006, 05:21:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
Sigh...lets try this again.

First off..simaril if im not wrong you were asked out of your squad because you were jumping countries...thats the way i thought it was conveyed to me..apologies if im wrong

Point is BoPs are not the only squad with this rule...in fact most of the squads i know of have a form of this rule...now some will switch all together in rotation...but that is different as well.

The answer to the question HITECH is that is how I (falconwing, mike, solo yo) chose to form a squad.  I chose to form a squad that flew for one country from guys who had commitment to that country.  I elected to setup barriers to guys who jumped to whatever country was easiest.  Again BoP was fired under the furnace that was the MA 2 years ago when Bish were heavily outnumbered.  Please do a search and you will see that i posted in here at that time saying it was no fun being ganged by both countries.  the answer given ( i believe by many of the current posters) was to organize better and have alliances.  This is how we responded.


I've no interest in a 1v1 here, and it does seem we're having a failure to communicate. So, I'll leave it at this.

EDIT
I dont have anything against BOP -- I dont care how squads operate, but I do care about AH. I havent ragged BOP at all, but I HAVE suggested that with such large numbers the big squads need to acknowledge -- and adjust themselves for -- their disproportionate effect on small arenas. /EDIT



If you know how bad it is to be horded, why do you penalize your members for trying to make things even? You are a member of what used to be called a "caring profession," where compassion is a virtue -- why can't you see (or maybe why dont you care about) the effects of your actions on the larger community of AH?

In short, why do you see the inconveniences done TO you and not the inconveniences you DO TO others by making the Bishop icon more important than the people you play with?




(and btw -- no, I was not asked to leave my squad for going to other countries.  Before I left rooks, I posted on our squad BBS that I was going to take a "grand tour of AH" to get to know more of the great folks in AH. The squad CO, Boozer, posted back that it was a good idea, and that I should meet as many as I could....and that I'd be welcome back when I was ready. If I recall, I even spent an evening flying with you, Falc.

Later in the month, there were some issues, that Boozer later apologized for on our forums -- and I will not go into the details of what happened, because its all meaningless water under the bridge. My decision to leave the 4th was entirely my own, and I was not asked to leave or ejected at all. Now I take my beatings from the guys of the 4th, and we throw the salutes liberally when we cross wings together.)
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 21, 2006, 05:23:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Donzo
Isn't that what you wish for?  

One big deathmatch?

Here's the perfect furball arena:

No counties...just one.

No killshooter.

No airfields...deathmatch contestants are warped (or born) into the arena at a random alt between 1K and 2.5K going 200 kts.  This brithing area will be an invisible sphere that can only be flown through from the inside out.  

Landing bubbles....just fly in at any speed and it's considered a landing (no use wasting time landing when you could be getting your furball freak on.


:huh  Try actually reading the posts as they are written, in the order they are written. I think that's where you're getting confused.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 21, 2006, 05:35:56 PM
Simaril

apologies again if what was conveyed to me was wrong...

You seem to feel that my actions and that of my squad somehow "ruins" the game...

when you were doing your grand tour you winged with us for a night..do you remember us hording?? or were we trying to retake a NW section of the map that was originally bish territory that the rooks were occupying?
if i remeber we were fairly evenly matched and fighting and dying alot...

that is most nights as a BoP... we WERE one of the defenders of bishland...we didnt gang the weaker country but focused on the stronger one...we didnt organize vulch trips or pick missions...we rarely pushed another country to reset...we spent alot of time porking frontline troops and thats how i got most of my kills.  we DO/DID use noe missions to reclaim territory because it was the most efficient.

try reading the posts about me on this board from guys who have flown with me as fellow bish or even the ones we fought...i dont see people posting such compliments for the guys who are hammering me.  I AM a nice guy who DOES care deeply about this community.  But i also believe that pure furballing is ultimately boring and loses people's interest..because i wont buy into their concept of fun i am being harangued.

Oh and LAZ..the fun police moniker came straight form being called that by the BKs...you all appointed us this so we made an avatar...i probably should change the under your mom thing tho..was done when the BBS was more fun:aok

BTW thanks from the heart for the guys who have posted compliments..means alot...it heartens me to want to find a way to make this work for us...and a big to minnow especially..i know we have not seen eye to eye alot so your posts mean even more:D
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SlapShot on September 21, 2006, 05:36:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Donzo
Isn't that what you wish for?  

One big deathmatch?

Here's the perfect furball arena:

No countries...just one.

No killshooter.

No airfields...deathmatch contestants are warped (or born) into the arena at a random alt between 1K and 2.5K going 200 kts.  This brithing area will be an invisible sphere that can only be flown through from the inside out.  

Landing bubbles....just fly in at any speed and it's considered a landing (no use wasting time landing when you could be getting your furball freak on.


A case of sour grapes if I have ever seen one.

Yeah ... its all the fault of the BKs and me ... I think I have the shoulders to carry the heavy burden of guilt ... I will sleep tonight.

Myself ... unlike you, have tried to think of ways to lighten the burden of these changes brought forth by HT and HT alone ... whereas all you can do is piss and moan, write post that mean nothing in the scheme of things, hoping that if you do it enough ... HT will change his mind ... guess what ... it ain't going back to what you held near and dear to you heart.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Raider179 on September 21, 2006, 05:55:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Sounds like a challenge to HT ... watch what ya wish for.


Personally I think that would spell the end of AH. I don't think HTC would even consider that. I am just pointing out as long as we can "talk" to each other, we are gonna fly together.


To HTC

Whether in a squad or not, a lot of people enjoy comraderie and flying in groups. Don't think so? Go look at the clipboard in the game and tell me you don't see streams of green... yeah you see a few dots off by themself, but they are usually pork-runners or strat guys.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SlapShot on September 21, 2006, 06:08:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Personally I think that would spell the end of AH. I don't think HTC would even consider that. I am just pointing out as long as we can "talk" to each other, we are gonna fly together.


To HTC

Whether in a squad or not, a lot of people enjoy comraderie and flying in groups. Don't think so? Go look at the clipboard in the game and tell me you don't see streams of green... yeah you see a few dots off by themself, but they are usually pork-runners or strat guys.


What you have described ... streams of green and a few dots off by themselfs ... is usually the horde and a few dots off by themselfs ... exactly what HT does not want.

HT probably would like to see many smaller streams of green all over the map ... not just concentrated in any one area.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 21, 2006, 06:27:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
I'm glad to hear that (seriously). With respect though, that should have been your attitude from the begining. If you guys are a tight as you say, and I have no reason to doubt you, you will find ways to get the squad together.


It speaks for its self.

You (are) a flame baiter at heart...everyone knows this to be true.

You say "With respect though" followed by a statement that implies something that Falconwng never said. What respect?

The reason for all the quote captures are...well lets just say...i figured i would end up having to do it anyways.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 21, 2006, 06:32:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
What you have described ... streams of green and a few dots off by themselfs ... is usually the horde and a few dots off by themselfs ... exactly what HT does not want.

HT probably would like to see many smaller streams of green all over the map ... not just concentrated in any one area.


I believe everyone would actually like smaller battles all over the map. Relitively speaking anyways.

I seriously doubt that this is the answer to adress that scenario.

umm...look at how things are in EW MW and LW...same ole game. nothing has really changed.

I know the giant squid has spewed his Ink screen for some...but if you really examine it...nothing has really changed as far as breaking up the "Hoard" "Horde" or what ever else we might call it.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Oldman731 on September 21, 2006, 06:32:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
You (are) a flame baiter at heart...everyone knows this to be true.

(Makes note:  Mugzee finally pushed over the edge.)

- oldman
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 21, 2006, 06:38:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
(Makes note:  Mugzee finally pushed over the edge.)

- oldman


I would be bothered if i wasnt able to prove it.

Notice there is no baiting on my part...Just pointing out the obvious.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SlapShot on September 21, 2006, 06:48:10 PM
umm...look at how things are in EW MW and LW...same ole game. nothing has really changed.

Then pray tell ... what is everybody pissin' and moanin' about then ?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Simaril on September 21, 2006, 06:49:46 PM
Falcon--

Look, this exchange has not gone the way I intended. I do NOT have anything against the BOPs or big squads in general -- and I dont ever remember slamming them to anyone.

And, if I came across as anti-BoP, my apologies. As my wife has often rightly told me, I'm not good at knowing when to shut up.

I'm flying knight because I find I generally like flying on the low side. Since the arena switch, I've been frustrated at times that sides may be 40:13:5, and no one will be willing to switch. If I give up and leave, it jsut makes it worse for everyone else.

Honestly, I wish more of the high side fliers would have the good manners and sportsmanship to come over and make the game fun for us, too. That wish focused on BoP in this thread, but it isnt ABOUT BoP at its core.

Just remember the rest of us, thats all I ask.



Simaril
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 21, 2006, 07:02:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
It speaks for its self.

You (are) a flame baiter at heart...everyone knows this to be true.

You say "With respect though" followed by a statement that implies something that Falconwng never said. What respect?

The reason for all the quote captures are...well lets just say...i figured i would end up having to do it anyways.


I admit, I bait sometimes, but the majority of the time I just call it like I see it without fear that it might hurt someones feelings.

Quote
With respect though, that should have been your attitude from the begining. If you guys are a tight as you say, and I have no reason to doubt you, you will find ways to get the squad together.


Is that not a true statement, and if not how so?

I said that because I feel it to be true. He has said they will adapt because they are a tight nit group, which is good. All I said was he SHOULD have been getting his squad going on ideas to adapt to the changes instead of this dead-end thread.

You were careful to leave out certain posts of Falcon:

Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
i have never seriously considered quitting this game but as i logged tonite it is a real possibility.


I said I was glad to hear he was not quitting because he had hinted that he might. Clear enough or do I need to explain more? You need to get your house in order before you start calling other flame baiters.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 21, 2006, 07:04:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
I would be bothered if i wasnt able to prove it.

Notice there is no baiting on my part...Just pointing out the obvious.


From where I sit I can say the same about myself, but YOU call it flamebaiting.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 21, 2006, 07:20:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
All I said was he SHOULD have been getting his squad going on ideas to adapt to the changes instead of this dead-end thread.


From what i have seen Falcon and his squad have already been working on adapting long before they actually posted anything in the thread.

Quote
Originally posted by Grits

You were careful to leave out certain posts of Falcon:


I assure you if i did it was on accident..But im certain i didnt leave out any that was posted prior to my reply you are refering to.

And i am confident that i am always a reactive as opposed to proactive where as insults or flamebaiting.

So as far as getting "My house in order"

I make no statement unless i am ready to pay the price.

You can take that any way you like.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Stang on September 21, 2006, 07:23:08 PM
Glad all that fun banter we have had in game is meaningless Falc, since I am part of that "group" that is so distasteful to you and some certain others.  Sad.

:(
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 21, 2006, 07:53:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
What you have described ... streams of green and a few dots off by themselfs ... is usually the horde and a few dots off by themselfs ... exactly what HT does not want.

HT probably would like to see many smaller streams of green all over the map ... not just concentrated in any one area.


Seem to remember HT himself saying he wasn't against a "concentration of forces".
So come on, when does a concentration of forces become a hoard in your opinion, 20 is OK, 21 is a hoard?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 21, 2006, 07:53:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
I assure you if i did it was on accident..But im certain i didnt leave out any that was posted prior to my reply you are refering to.


It was his first post on this subject in the first now locked thread. Maybe you didnt see that one, in that case I apologize for saying you intentionally left it out.
Quote


And i am confident that i am always a reactive as opposed to proactive where as insults or flamebaiting.

So as far as getting "My house in order"

I make no statement unless i am ready to pay the price.

You can take that any way you like. [/B]


As I said in a previous post, I will not deny that I occasionally bait people, but most of I write is just as you describe yourself above you just dont agree with what I say which is fine.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 21, 2006, 07:55:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
It was his first post on this subject in the first now locked thread. Maybe you didnt see that one, in that case I apologize for saying you intentionally left it out.


As I said in a previous post, I will not deny that I occasionally bait people, but most of I write is just as you describe yourself above you just dont agree with what I say which is fine.


Ahh ok..i see what you are refering to. No i didnt go to that thread. So in that regard i must extend my apologies to you. Sorry :(
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SuperDud on September 21, 2006, 07:56:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
20 is OK, 21 is a hoard?


Yes
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: rshubert on September 21, 2006, 08:01:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Mugz
   When you make a good point with me, I'll acknowledge that point. Until then, you're just arguing to be difficult, not to demonstrate a better point of view. I'm not personally insulting, and if you do not wish to hear my opinions on a particular topic on an open discussion board, I suggest you put me in your ignore list.

And yes, I could have said "glad to hear it", but I really don't care. If anyone insists on encouraging a type of gameplay or an attitude that is damaging to the community, and makes it difficult for others to enjoy their own type of fun, then I'm not going to pretend to be pleased that they will neither quit nor change their ways.

Good day.



Hub, look up the word "sanctimonious".  You will see where it applies.















On second thought, you probably won't see.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Kev367th on September 21, 2006, 08:04:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
Yes


Ah, OK.

We'll just have 2 sets of a "concentration of forces" then ;) .
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: FALCONWING on September 21, 2006, 08:05:45 PM
well played shubert:aok

Stang, I think you know i have respect for you.    just as i suspect all BoPs are not taking personally the things said on this board as being addressed to every member individually...then similarly im sure you know i was not referring to you:rolleyes:  silly!
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 21, 2006, 08:09:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Just to be sure. So it is your stand that your baiting is a reactive action as opposed to proactive action?


I dont stalk or seek out people just for an opportunity to throw an insult at them, I just dont care that much.

What I will do, without hesitation or regret, is to throw out a sarcastic or pointed comment when I see someone making a false statement or twisting someone elses words to suit their agenda.

I would call that reactive.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 21, 2006, 08:14:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Seem to remember HT himself saying he wasn't against a "concentration of forces".
So come on, when does a concentration of forces become a hoard in your opinion, 20 is OK, 21 is a hoard?


See kev. This is the problem with this entire system and the discussion based around it.:huh

I see HT's point.

But I also see plainly from the start that it really won't work with the current number distribution, without a LOT of tweaking.

What is HTC waiting for? Tweak already.

There are very legitimate complaints about the ENY and cap issues.

Why are we left to bash it out among ourselves?  HT can fix some of it at the drop of a hat all by his self?

The ENY is a place to start.

What is he waiting for?

He surely cant make people any more upset.

Tweak already!  

Git er done son.

If it doesnt work...tweak it again in 3 days.

We will be here typing our hearts...you just keep to the tweakin task.

:D
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: viper215 on September 21, 2006, 08:14:26 PM
I hate homework...
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: rshubert on September 21, 2006, 08:14:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
umm...look at how things are in EW MW and LW...same ole game. nothing has really changed.

Then pray tell ... what is everybody pissin' and moanin' about then ?


get a grip.  we're pissing and moaning about the fact that we can't all fly together, as we want to.

We're pissing and moaning about the effective change to the gameplay caused by the new number limitations.  

Denying the existence of the issues does not make them go away.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Stang on September 21, 2006, 08:31:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by viper215
I hate homework...
:D
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: thndregg on September 21, 2006, 08:43:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
What you have described ... streams of green and a few dots off by themselfs ... is usually the horde and a few dots off by themselfs ... exactly what HT does not want.

HT probably would like to see many smaller streams of green all over the map ... not just concentrated in any one area.


Better get rid of that mission planner, then. It's seldom used now.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 21, 2006, 08:47:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
I dont stalk or seek out people just for an opportunity to throw an insult at them, I just dont care that much.

What I will do, without hesitation or regret, is to throw out a sarcastic or pointed comment when I see someone making a false statement or twisting someone elses words to suit their agenda.

I would call that reactive.

:rofl :rofl
You responded exactly as i told my wife you would.

I had this already saved in MS word because i knew you couldnt resist.

 Given the context and chronology that Falcs replies leading up to his last reply.

Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
oh and a quick note...i am not planning on quitting...

i may get banned but im not quitting...BoPs will adapt...we always have..

Logged on to main arena to "did you hear Falc quit?"  from nonsquad guys...

"Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated":t


I still contend that you could have simply replied with Im glad to hear it falc

He woulda felt good. You woulda felt good and the readers woulda felt good.

In light of the way you handle my apology. Or ignored it.   I am left with my original thought.
You were indeed baiting falc with the respectfully though preface, and are indeed being insulting preying off someone heart felt
Concerns.  LOW

I am done with you now.
Title: Welllllllllllllllllllll
Post by: Clueso on September 21, 2006, 08:55:54 PM
I didn't read but a few of the posts.  I'm a long time pilot on about my 4th call sign.  AH had reached a point if it wasn't for  my AH buddies I probably would have quit.  We meet up each year for the Reno Air Races for face to face.  It was a bit of a shock to come home to the new arena setup.  As usual there is a bit of a learning curve when things change.  I welcome it.  I have had some very nice flights and we are having a good time so far.  It's much more the way it used to be with more one on one fights instead of the constant gang banging.
Thanks Hitech Crew

Clueso:aok
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: BTW on September 21, 2006, 09:07:33 PM
I'm curious how the numbers stack up - seriously, genuinely curious from a human behavior standpoint. It's the principle of people being aware they are being observed and not liking to be lab rats. And as another poster stated the abstract reasons sited for the change are in fact drivel- meaningless with no objective standard. My college English 101 teacher would have red "x'd" the paragraph as BS also. It was completely subjective trying to fake objective.
In my opinion, the fix offers nothing new. There is nothing in the fix that sparks interest. Its not a fix, but a corporate dictate. If you remove the groupies, its hard to find a reason why the fix is good. The suggestion I posted - skipped over - does make sense. Hard to implement ( many exploits in it) but a rational and competitive game strategy. And its not original. A 3-d chess game put out about 35 years ago did the same thing. You remember those black and white pictures of it in the Sears's toy catalogue? What happened on one board fell through to the lower boards. It was the three phases of a chess game going on at once. It would  be the same as have the three phases of WWII going on at once.  Each phase would effect the next phase. If the late war was going wrong, people could log into the early war to change things that would be happening in the middle and late wars. Why have eny when whats happens in EW can establish eny in MW and what happens in MW can establish eny in LW? This is richness. It would be hard to write, but it would be right. Why in the world would three arenas of different periods in the same game not affect one another if the goal was a joint community or a representation of history? Don't be quick to skip over the idea.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Mugzeee on September 21, 2006, 09:34:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
*

I only cite posts that are relavant to the content of my replies.

As far as what fuels the discussion?

This discussion has taken many twist's and turns. Usually brought on by taunting remarks of the likes of you. ;)

And i am done with you as well.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: hubsonfire on September 21, 2006, 09:36:30 PM
Hasty edit, as I just saw this.

Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Was supposed to be directed at grits
Sorry Hubs.


Anyway, for one who isn't interested in that kind of thing, I find it odd that you're so keen to jump on any post we make, often while ignoring relevant data.

And that's about the third time you've said you were done, and yet you keep coming back to snipe at me. See my prior comment about not making a point, and just trying to be a pain in the ass.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: bj229r on September 21, 2006, 09:58:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Personally I think that would spell the end of AH. I don't think HTC would even consider that. I am just pointing out as long as we can "talk" to each other, we are gonna fly together.


To HTC

Whether in a squad or not, a lot of people enjoy comraderie and flying in groups. Don't think so? Go look at the clipboard in the game and tell me you don't see streams of green... yeah you see a few dots off by themself, but they are usually pork-runners or strat guys.



Nothin wrong with flying in a group---squealing 50 plane MOB is dweebish, whether BOP's or Rook-RJO is doin it---no fun being IN the mob, DAMN sure no fun tryin to fight it---utterly unfun, makes me wanna do nothing but log. If you can't enjoy the game  unless  you're flyin with 50 or 60 of your closest friends and their LA7's, you need to go back to Quake
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: 999000 on September 21, 2006, 10:11:16 PM
I seriously don't believe big squads are a significant problem ....My squad has two guys in it tatertot and I,... we are always in good company especially when the other is not on...lol.....but flying alone does become a bore at times.......and I imagine there are other individuals and very small groups who really appreciate people who can organize an attack.

You might  mistakenly think Its Falconwings squad that is an issue...I have flow all three sides and I will tell you first the UNFORGIVEN is the most deadly challenging squad.

But what I really want to impress upon this conversation and what people negatively call "hordes" is that it is VERY RARE THE INDIVIDUAL WHO CAN COMMAND AN EFFECTIVE ATTACK....it is natural when these people are on that whether your a squad mate or not  to participate with them...they have your respect....again there are very few individuals  FALCONWING USGRIM and 68KO are three of the very  best!!!!!!!

When people try to  make guys like these out as the bad guys ...its dang humorous!

999000
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: MachNix on September 21, 2006, 10:11:36 PM
What is this game call Aces High suppose to be all about?

There are three countries but you are not allowed to be dedicated to any one country.  Were given the ability to form squads but are not suppose to be loyal to the other members.  We are given mission planning tools and VOX but we are not supposed to organize ourselves.  If you see a stream of green going to a fight, you cant follow because that might look like hording, nor can you go to an empty space on the map because youre not allowed to attack an undefended field.  We just spent a year debating Furballing vs Toolsheading and walked away with the idea that a single person should not be allowed to spoil the fun of others.  Now, HTC is saying that a single person should be allowed to spoil the fun of others as long as the others are BoPs and that we must sacrifice the BoP Horde (which turns out to be the few despite being a horde) for the sake of the many.  HTC even goes into what looks to me like a personal attack on Falc to see whether his loyalty to the squad is genuine.

HTC, if you would have stuck to the story about the arena spit was due to some server issues, I would have accepted that I didnt mind the change.  If the other countries truly could not get themselves organized to counter the BoPs, and if the BoPs where truly ruining the community by banding together, why didnt you just come and talk to us about it?  I dont know if we could have come to some solution but that approach would have been honest.  Doing this way, on the bbs, is giving me the message that you dont appreciate my patronage or my contributions to the skins.  When you attack Falc, youre attacking BoPs, and youre attacking me.

So, I ask again.  How are you supposed to play this game?
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SlapShot on September 21, 2006, 10:14:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rshubert
get a grip.  we're pissing and moaning about the fact that we can't all fly together, as we want to.

We're pissing and moaning about the effective change to the gameplay caused by the new number limitations.  

Denying the existence of the issues does not make them go away.


Shuby-do ... I think it is you who needs to get a grip.

I quoted him and it was he who was saying ... it looks like the same ole AH to him ... hence my response ... cause I truely know that you all are pissin' and moanin' and understand why you all are pissin' and moanin'.

It's not my fault you didn't get it.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: Grits on September 21, 2006, 10:25:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
I still contend that you could have simply replied with Im glad to hear it falc

He woulda felt good. You woulda felt good and the readers woulda felt good.


This is true, and maybe in hindsight if I had known it would have led to this I would have stopped there. I still dont honestly understand why you are so upset with the second part of that post, I didnt have any malicious intent with it and I am still somewhat puzzled that of all the things I have said, that got this reaction from you. Believe me, if I had wanted to get a rise I would have been much more direct about it.

Quote

In light of the way you handle my apology. Or ignored it.   I am left with my original thought.[/b]


I am sorry, I did not see it. After you posted this I went back and I saw missed this:

Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Ahh ok..i see what you are refering to. No i didnt go to that thread. So in that regard i must extend my apologies to you. Sorry :(


I didnt ignore it, I just missed it. My fault.

Quote
You were indeed baiting falc with the respectfully though preface, and are indeed being insulting preying off someone heart felt
Concerns.  LOW

I am done with you now. [/B]


I am sorry you got that from that post, but at this point all I can tell you is that was not my intention when I wrote it. I put the "respectfully" part in because I wanted to emphasise that I was trying to be serious. I guess it didnt work.
Title: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
Post by: SlapShot on September 21, 2006, 10:32:48 PM
Why don't you two get a room and get this over with ... makeup sex is always the best ... right ?