Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Special Events General => Topic started by: Imoutfishing on February 26, 2007, 12:23:14 AM
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Post up with your thought's on running an event on Sunday nights. What would you like to see or have a new concept? Post it we are looking for feedback from you all.
I know I had a good time... what about you?
MGD
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My only real complaint/suggestion would be to break the stream up (and the escorts) between several targets. So many planes in one spot, I had a couple times I let a kill get away because my framerates dropped to nothing, including one that went on to get 2 buffs. Plus it would make it a bit more accurate in having the Luftwaffe have to decide which effort to counter, or split between all of them.
Another "might be nice" would be to allow the Luftwaffe to reup to simulate later waves of attackers, and to let the USAAF who've gone down up a later group fighters as withdrawal ecort- in reality there would be an escort on the way in, a second force escort over the target and the first leg of withdrawal, and then a third force to relieve them and protect the bombers out over the North Sea or the Channel. And the Luftwaffe would have a second and even third force waiting to hit the bombers in their turn away from the target, and again at about the time the escorts were being relieved. It wasn't that "all or nothing" single mass attack.
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"Another "might be nice" would be to allow the Luftwaffe to reup to simulate later waves of attackers"
We discussed that point after the scenario ... And It will be given alot of thought
2 or 3 lives would be an option especially against buff formations, or even a different plane option for a second life .
Btw the logs are up http://ahevents.org/eventlogs.html (http://ahevents.org/eventlogs.html)
there in the "Snapshot" section .
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I say have more than 1 group of B17s. Too many in 1 spot was killing framerates. Besides, 2nd wave could clean up after first wave. Have 2nd wave maybe 1/2 sector behind.
Fighters could then be split to cover both groups.
Enemy could do a full attack against 1 group or maybe divide and attack both groups.
2nd lives for the Luftwaffe could be fun too, but maybe have them reup together at a specific point in time, airspawn even.
Also have the allied fighters carry less fuel to simulate the bombers flying outside the range of allied fighters. Would be a massacure for the bombers dudes. Would be fun.
Also, have the Axis get a 110 up high and follow the Bomber group, that way he can report bomber positions any time someone asks.
Also, during exit, the bombers were at full throttle, thereby not letting the ones in the back catch up.
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
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I liked it a lot. Thanks to the organizers for making it happen!
Also, I liked the Sunday time slot -- I have an easier time for a Sunday time slot than any other day.
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Kermit is fixed on that fact that we would run the same mission every week. This would not be the case of course.
The feed back we need is more geared to a Sunday night event that everyone will enjoy yet let walkons & squads get envolved.
Kermit managed to get Betty killed off way to early so advise on tonight's activity is null & void :)
MGD
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174 logged pilots, that's exceptionally good for a SEA Snapshot.
Surprised only 10 pilot difference between Allied (92)(53%) and Axis (82) (47%).... seemed a lot worse, from Axis side, but that was a coordination effort on Axis side. Actually pretty close to 50/50....better than usual.
30 Bomber flights? Sheesshhhh.... 90 bombers about, not counting 60-some escorts, to Axis 82 pilots total. IIRC, late war missions were typically 1 fighter for every 2 bombers. After a certain number, that 3-plane bomber flight starts to overwhelm the Axis.
About frame rate. Can't tailor events for lowest common denominator as far as hardware and connections. If you know you've got frame rate problems, you need to adjust for it. In a case such as this, hunting for stragglers would work. Also, very hard to know what the turn out will be for any Snapshot event.
Obvious problems: late comers. People showing up 5 minutes or less before take off and barrage of "what we doing" questions. People that have not looked at the posted write up for the event. No way to stop that from happening for snapshots.
If some CO's and XO's can be identified BEFORE the event, and able to do a little coordinating, it can make up for the late comers.
Heard some complaints about Allied airspawn, but that was really the only way to get them to historical operating altitudes for the senerio in time allotted. Not really a problem, I got an A8 to altitude easily enough with 100% fuel and DT. (110's needed the airspawn up north). The Axis airspawn may have been too far north if anything.
AXIS:
Okay, this is all in hind sight, and I thought I'd be flying Allied as a buff driver, but the numbers were pretty lopsided when I logged in, so I flew Axis.
* CO's/XO's identified earlier would have simplified the plane-types, fields, runway spawns and loadouts. Just a little prep work by a couple individuals, or a squadron that want to take on the duty prior to the event. These Field CO's /XO's and overall Axis CO could have kept each other informed as to population at each starting field. Try to balance things for "squadrons". As new players joined, they would have been directed to the proper field, and conduct a lot of the prep work in local channel.
* Not Concentrated: Should have concentrated more forces just west of the targets closer in and sent out 4 plane scouts to locate the enemy bombers along probably radar gaps, and investigate flashing dars. Axis attacks against the buffs were too thin against all the P-38's and P47 escorts. Axis was in several concentrations, but all over the map, and out of position when attacks began.
* Communication or coordination problem. Some Axis planes got spread all over the skies. As bombers were on run to first target, a number of planes were far to the west near V77. Unsure if they were looking for second group, or never saw the updates in the text buffers about sightings. Just like a real war in that aspect.
* Plane types 110's got kills, but considering the altitudes and escorts, perhaps higher percentage of Fw 190-A5's might have been better choice.
Allied
Nice box formation. Very similar to first one FiLtH ran some time ago. A larger percentage of the escorts stayed on station with the buffs even late on the return trip, than what is typical for missions in game. Good discipline.
Allies stats:
Pilots: 92 Kills: 69 Assists: 93
Objects Destroyed: 281 Deaths: 17 Landed: 57
Bailed: 2 Captured: 11 Crashed: 14
Ditched: 1 Disco'd: 4
Axis stats:
Pilots: 82 Kills: 50 Assists: 17
Objects Destroyed: 1 Deaths: 44 Landed: 36
Bailed: 21 Captured: 0 Crashed: 5
Ditched: 4 Disco'd: 3
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I totally disagree with Kermit, who said, "Also, during exit, the bombers were at full throttle, thereby not letting the ones in the back catch up.
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast."
Last event I flew, the bombers all went back to target because someone had two eggs left. We all had to slow down and wait. Then the Axis showed up and decimated us. All for two eggs and 1 plane. We would have, most likely, been out of the sector and 14 more bombers would have made it home.
Drop and get. Thats how it was done then. That's how it should be done now, and I would feel the same if I was tail end charlie and got blasted, if it saved a bunch of others.
Wait...I have been tail end charlie and led the "bad guys" away from the main bomber stream.
I am not overly wild on the drop three here drop three there method.
Would prefer to see each bomber flight have a designated target, and salvo 1 or salvo all would be fine, but they must all be dropped on one target in one pass, then beat feet for home.
However, I did enjoy this event a whole bunch. to the CM Team that put it together and ran it.
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Originally posted by tedrbr
About frame rate. Can't tailor events for lowest common denominator as far as hardware and connections. If you know you've got frame rate problems, you need to adjust for it. In a case such as this, hunting for stragglers would work. Also, very hard to know what the turn out will be for any Snapshot event.
System had nothing to do with it. I consistently get over 70, usually as high as 85, in any terrain and in the massive furballs of the MA.
At one point in the fight, I had to break off a 190 when I was getting a framerate of 5 over the bomber box. Pulled out to the side about 4,000 yards away from the bombers and it was back up over 60. Out hunting 110s that were trailing the stream, back to the normal 85.
Going in to land with all the fighters and bombers taxiing in to park and lining up to land, was back down to 10 or lower.
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ok heres my opinon on tonights events....
i had fun..concidering what happened. the front group of 17's didnt throttle back enuff for all of us to form up. kermit didnt get me killed, it was everyone else that didnt wait up for us that got me killed. if we had been in a better formation, then we could have helped each other alot better..example..everyone in the front group managed to pretty much survive the attacts cuz they were tight..thus leavin the ones that were in the back open to any and all attacks. had everyone throttled back and waited then formed up we would have been fine. kermit survived cuz he had a few escorts helpin him out after myself and fianna were attacked so badly. this is my 2 cents and thats all it is, i'm not pointin fingers at anyone. my suggestion, next time, bombers need to be tighter formation.
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Had a great time. Managed to get home with 2/3 bombers and hit a decent number of targets.
My only complaint would be that on one bomb run my bombs hit buildings that had been targetted by someone else. Theirs hit first unfortunately for me.
Curval <- Flying as SAMWAM on my son's account.
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It was short but fun for my gruppe. At 30 K feet our 190 A5's were stretched to the maximum. Sadly our 5 fighters found the allied mass first. We were quickly dispatched by the jugs but just the sight of all those bombers was worth a look. All in all it was very cool and I wouldn't hesitate to participate in another like event. Salute to all who participated on both sides.
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Had lots of fun.
*If* large #s do split up the strike into 2 "bomber groups" though...
Have a strict frame end time limit, then call a frame 2 if there is interest.
Was good to see 100+ ? in a Snapshot. :aok
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I had a great time in the event, even with frame rates often in the single digits near the bombers. That was a great event, amazing attendance too - at one point I counted 151 players in the arena.:aok
A couple of suggestions though:
-Identifying the CO's & XO's early would help a lot to clear up the initial confusion for players coming in to the event.
-Having the CO's name GL's for the different aircraft types would also clear up a lot of confusion for players coming in to the event and improve coordination between players. From the allied perspective last night the LW seemed hamstrung by not attacking the allied formations as a group. Had they done so I think they would have done a lot more damage to the bombers and not felt so overwhelmed by the size of the grouped allied players.
-If the attendance warrants it, laying in additional roles or targets such as a fighter sweep ahead of the bomber box, or breaking the attackers up into groups and assign specific targets to each group in the target area.
Cheers,
asw
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Seen the posts about straggler Bomber flights, what MAN was the formation trying to hold? Or better yet, what % of maximum power settings where you at?
I noticed the stragglers too late on my run in, or I'd have targeted them instead of the rear of the main group. Still, I had no real chance with all those P38's and Jugs on station.
To keep a formation together, and help stragglers, I've found that running buffs at 80% of full MAN is reasonable. At 15 to 25K that will translate at 35 to 40 MAN. Maybe 30 MAN even higher.
Have to disagree with those that say drop and run. You break and run, you will split up all over the sky, you make it harder on the escorts, and make it easier to pick off stragglers. Bomber formation's strength is not it's speed, but it's overlapping fields of fire from a formation (and it's altitude to some degree). You fight your way in and you fight your way out.
How did that many bombers doing an Airspawn work out? Did you spawn by Group? Did fighters wait to spawn separately to avoid FR problems? Did fighters lift from ground and catch up to bombers en route?
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Overall, I think Sunday Nights have the capability of becoming a great Snapshot Night. Turnouts seems to be well above average, and this was the first run.
As to concepts:
Maybe the next one or two should not focus on bomber formations, until issues about numbers and FR have been hashed out? Time for a Pacific Theater fight? Midway? Coral Sea? The Slot? Okinawa?
JABO run and interception? Battle of Britain dogfight? Mossie Raid? Something Early War, or from the Eastern Front? North Africa?
Or if high numbers say consistent, pick a medium bomber with no formations for an event?
Maybe an Eastern Front fight with GV's included to bring the Heavy Metal Monday boys into it? GV's, Attack planes. Heavy cloud cover with low ceiling, limited vis? Fog? Smaller battle area. A down-in-the-mud, miserable conditions, fight. This is more of a slug fest, 2 life type of event?
It was nice to see snow terrain again. Been a long time since I have seen snow in an online arena.
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Had a great time :aok
I think Bombing and escort will be fine if targets were more distant apart and flights broke up , The map also i think is one of the hardest FPS hitting in the game which brought down frames more.
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From a design point of view, here is what we were hoping for.
Going into this, we knew it was an experiment. The other events you can pretty much count on attendance, and interest, and skill level, so it's getting easier to build events.
We had no clue as to how this would be recieved. We had a Positive And Negative end to the time slot. It is in the Peak of a most popular MA time period. This gives us the Advantage of a large audience looking at the SEA and saying..HMM what's going on here? It also can be a great place for the organized missions that so many don't see in the MA. It also can Remove a good amount of people From the MA on the most popular squad night time slot. So we have some good and bad effects here to contend with.
We chose a mission that wasn't too complicated, and afforded the ability to run the mission should 40 people show or a couple hundred. We were Thrilled with the turnout, and can taylor events to anything you guys want to run. I saw a great many familiar faces and was pleased as could be with the level of professionalism throughout the event, even as "basic" as it was.
Knowing this would be off the cuff and we needed to be fluid and flexible, we did the unusual this time. We had given the CO slots to 4 CMs. We normally don't do that, as it's for the players. But we wanted Banshe and 4XTCH to run the Axis, MGD and Roscoroo to run the Allies. That way we could get a good feel from Nef and I at the door, and those guys at the helm, for a clear read on the reaction to the good and bad aspects. They did a good job.
We "Clearly" want something on Sunday that is a bit Less Formal than a full blown FSO, but more orgainized at the helm with COs in advance. Then again, if you guys want a more rigid and structured event like an FSO, we'll do that as well, but it doesn't open up the event for walkons as much. If we have Strong leadership from you guys that love this stuff and want to drive it, then we can build a great event that can take advantage of the walkons that will get used to seeing something active happening in this time slot.
I've offered the Team Speak server for the CM team as one tool for the core leadership group to have access to, so that we can discuss events and leadership roles With the more active leaders not only in this event, but for the snapshots and FSOs if desired. Those that continually take the lead in our events would be invited to use the server, and attend regular meetings to help promote these types of events.
There is wiggle room around the start time. Might want to go at it an hour earlier, it's on the table, this only works if you guys want to attend.
In a nutshell, this was a grand experiment to test Interest, and it seems the interest is there. We have a strong desire to bring a regular event to you in this time slot. We are more than eager to hear all of your ideas, desires, feedback that will get us to this goal.
Thanks so much for coming out last night.
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Don't have time to post in any detail about it, but had a few Mongrels show up (4 with 4 guests as gunners) and we had to launch about 5 min after the main group. Was disappointed we could not take the B-24, but it was listed in the write up.
We were wiped out by some 110's. Our own fault for being late and not having any escort. Really it was fun. Great turn out.
Will post more later on the "Monthly Mission" idea. As I told Nef a couple weeks ago in a PM I think you guys are on to something here.
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Overall I thought it was really immersive and had a great time..
The only thing i'd like to see change though, and alot of people might not agree, is to remove formations from the buff pilots.
In my opinion it gives them 3 lives as opposed to everyone else's single life, and kinda takes a little away from the realism factor. 30 single bombers grouped up should have been able to defend themselves pretty well, especially with the amount of escorts they had.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to make it happen, and i really look foward to the next one.
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I had a blast.
I'd suggest a second attack wave for the axis, and any allies that die can come back as gunners if they want to.
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This was my first SE so I have no real opinions on how to improve it. It was defnatly the most immersive experience I have had in Aces High. I particularly liked not having the red and green radar dots on the map. It was much more realistic than the MA.
As far as the bombers go, all I can say is that when I rolled down on them it was like midnight over Bagdahd with all those rounds seeking me. After the mission the guys and me discussed things and we thought we came up empty handed. Then today I found the mission logs on the SE website (way cool) and found I was credited with a B-17 kill shortly before BlueKitty relieved me of my left wing. I knew I had gotten hits but couldn't even look back at the time because of all the tracers and diving fighters around me. I thought it was great and look forward to more of the same.
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Can definitely see how so often there was rampant overclaiming, what with 69 kills and 93 assists, and 50 kills to 17 assists. I'm sure most of those assists would have been faithfully claimed as kills, as was one of mine. Blew up a low 190A8 and got credited with an asist.
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This is the first event I have tried in a long time. It was great fun, and look forward to more.
An event every other night in this time slot would be well attended I think.
Frodo
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The bombers were set at manifold 40 (which is not a position my throttle likes, but with a little adjustment now and then I was able to stay right in the pack.) FiLtH and MGD did a great job of trying to keep us bunched up, but when the bad guys show up and you go to the guns, it is easy to drift away from the bomber stream and get behind a bit, hence the reason for holding 40 on the manifold throughout the run, to allow those who have gotten behind or way off to one side a chance to get caught up in a reasonably short time.
All turns were called from the nose gun position using rudders, and the turns were called well in advance, so everyone should have had ample time to prepare and follow. Again, to FiLtH for doing all he could to keep it together, and to the escort pilots who were everywhere they needed to be when they needed to be there.
When I said earlier, drop and run, I did not mean every bomber pilot should dart off by his or her self. What I was trying to say was that after the last drop, the group should take a few minutes to reform and then skeedaddle for the cold drinks as a group, as opposed to lingering in the area while someone makes one more pass.
In this event, each bomber had a "specific" location to drop, ie. I was center right, others center left, far left and far right, and we only dropped three of our twelve at each of the four locations. What we did not think of was to further specify center right near, center right far, which might have helped the guys who dropped on buildings that had already been targeted. Perhaps a salvo 3 instead of the 1,1,1 might be a better way to go for this type of run, or salvo 12 (or whatever the load out is) on each target by 1/4 of the group.
In any event, I truely had a blast, and offer a big to the axis side for doing the best they could with the planes they had near us at any given time. I think a mass attack might have lead to more bombers going down, but the ability to locate us and then form into a mass attack might have not been possible for whatever reasons. The 190's sure made a valiant effort to do maximum damage, from what I saw. :aok
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Originally posted by Speed55
The only thing i'd like to see change though, and alot of people might not agree, is to remove formations from the buff pilots.
In my opinion it gives them 3 lives as opposed to everyone else's single life, and kinda takes a little away from the realism factor. 30 single bombers grouped up should have been able to defend themselves pretty well, especially with the amount of escorts they had.
Thanks Speed55
Well that very reply was part of the Post Snapshot discussion amongst the CM team.
Some compelling arguments to be made on both sides.
650 cannons in the A8.... formidable yes... 200 to take one plane...but he gets a gun on yours ...He gets a fresh one and still has 2.. new elevation so you chase and get the 2nd but now he's got your elevator and another fresh plane...and your down to your last 200 cannons.. you get the 3rd but now he's pinged your oil and radiator and effectively your nights over. Is that fair? I don't know, but he only did have 1 gunner, 2 if you include the pilot. Not all the Buff pilots on Sunday had the priviledge of having the extra gunner I'm sure. What about all of the other Buffs that were close enough to have all 3 of their planes shooting at you as well? That and the wall of escorts made getting to the Buffs a challenge. I'm also quite confident that a few of the 190 pilots that flew against the 17's in WWII got wacked pretty good and many never made it home with all those gunner positions filled.
Do you feel that you would want to fly a single Buff with only one gunner on board?
How about limiting the total #'s of Buffs with the formations enabled?
There are many different options available to the players in the SEA that we can offer, and this is the Forum to begin these discussions about what you would like to see in a Sunday night event.
Keep them coming please:aok
4XTCH
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This is for ROC or Nef.
What about enabling friendly collisions after launch? Obviously it would have to be across the board, and I'm not sure that it will work but it would spread out the formations a bit.
Does that particular setting affect or include the drones as well?
Just a random thought is all.
4XTCH
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I had alot of fun!
I was a 110 among others who ended up stuck on the fringe unable to find main bomber group and or get to it when it was reported. but we managed to kill everything we did find and lost very few from our group.
1 thought.
In previous snapshots I've participated in, hosted by WMlute I believe, there were anonymous reports given by the CM I think, presumed to have come from high command as reported by sympathetic civilians on the ground or fishing boats on the ocean such as:
Fishing boat reports Large group of bomber heading west from sector 9,12.etc...
The helps make sure that the battle that we're recreating does occur. Which I think is the point of snapshots. To replay and thereby give us the feel of the historic battle we attempt to recreate. As opposed to FSO where the stage is set and the sides have the opportunity to rewrite the battles with a new outcome.
My perception is that these "open to walkons" events known as Snapshots, are about experiencing the battles of history. Where the FSO type events, with preplanning and communication between organized groups of squads are more about the outcome and the victory hopefully.
So my feedback, assuming the intention is to give us a snapshot of a historic battle, would be to make sure we all have enough info to make reasonably sure that contact is made and the battle actually occurs.
After that it is the COs responsibilty to assure that the intel is acted upon correctly.
Thank you for putting it on, and asking for our feedback!
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It was a hoot flying that mission.
Like ROC pointed out you have to watch how formal you make so we can allow walkons. That in it's self is a problem. People that fly the FSO's will be used to orders and the knowledge of what the other guy's on your side are up to. The walkons might not be ready for the formality a FSO . So we looked for a blend.
The best way we I saw do deal with this was a overall mission. It's to bad we can't set up more then one set of way points. We could have sent out flights here & there as we saw fit while using the same mission.
So it's a work in progress. What you guy's tell us I'm banking will have a lot to do with the finished product.
Betty no offence to anyone but you did suffer following kermit. I know you had a connection issue but Kermit had no chance to stay with the pack he wasn't making the turns & running reduced speed. The buffs flew at 40 manifold the entire way until we hit the last target. I know both of you would have had no problem forming up if you wanted to. Thats all I have to say about the mission.
There were also some people the elected to climb higher then 18k so they also fell behind.
Then there were some guy's that were just plain new at this... it's a amazing we did our air launch so well. I was expecting loads of problems with that.
One last thing. That map seems to be hard on everyones hardware. Frame rate are going to suffer a bit no matter what.
Great job last night Allies... Axis there is always next time :) J/K
MGD
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reguardless......i had fun, and kermit is my favorite wingman and i will follow him anyday...no offense to anyone else. no it didnt help that i lost udp right off the get go, it was frustrating for me to try to keep up with kermit. but i managed somehow to keep formation with him with the warping issue i was having.
i will b in the SEA for any events that i can attend, that is what makes the game fun for me lately. <> to all the CM's, u guys did do a great job on this event and i do look forward to many more.
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Originally posted by 4XTCH
This is for ROC or Nef.
What about enabling friendly collisions after launch? Obviously it would have to be across the board, and I'm not sure that it will work but it would spread out the formations a bit.
Does that particular setting affect or include the drones as well?
Just a random thought is all.
4XTCH
i'll anser this one ... With friendly collisions enabled In a HUGE buff type mission or air start .. We end up loosing alot of players to "Warp collisions" ,, now if this was more spread out with smaller sorties it wouldnt have been so bad ... also we're catoring to getting walk-on players into this .. nothing is more irritating to a new player then to die for no reason other then a warp collision or miss judgement of speed .
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Next time We'll get more percise with the orders .and/or split the missions up so we dont suffer the huge fps hit /stutter as much.
How are you guys Set for Night flying ???
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Very few events can handle friendly collisions. On some of the more rigid, realistic events it might be something to consider, but that is strictly for the die hards and come with more intense settings across the board.
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In RL, pilots have peripheral vision, which you dont have in AH (or other flight sims), and as a result, friendly collisions are much more likely to occur. I think enemy collisions are enough.
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
How are you guys Set for Night flying ???
Thanks Roscoroo.. I get it
<---- hates night flying..JMHO... But how about a night launch with a dawn target approach?
4XTCH
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/thumbs/301_1172606761_ahss102a.jpg) (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/picpopup.php?ImgId=41641)
clic me....
Thats why I dont have any problem with Night missions .. I dont have to tweek anything . Its alot of fun from my pov.
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Imagine the icons were off...
Now look at it. You can't see crap. When you're attacking an enemy you need to know which way his wings are banked, if he's diving, zooming, spinning, rolling, or whatever. You literally can't see jack except the icon. Forget if he pulls up directly into the black sky and loops over you, or is hidden against the black waters below. The only time you'll ever be able to see your target is if he's against a cloud or the moon. I've done quite a few might missions.
All of them are foolish to the extreme.
You're not recreating anything historic with icons on, and with them off you'll never find anybody, ever. This game just isn't a night fighting game. That might be an interesting offline game (maybe EA or Janes can make it) but it would have to encompass so many things and be built from the ground-up with those things in mind.
AH wasn't built that way, it doesn't include aspects of night fighting, and at this rate it never will.
Night missions are a waste, IMO.
EDIT: FYI sorry I missed this Sunday thing. It looked like it was fun. Now that I know I'll keep an eye out for next Sunday.
EDIT 2: Oh, now I know why, Battlestar Gallactica was on.. I might have been watching TV.
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Originally posted by Krusty
EDIT: FYI sorry I missed this Sunday thing. It looked like it was fun. Now that I know I'll keep an eye out for next Sunday.
EDIT 2: Oh, now I know why, Battlestar Gallactica was on.. I might have been watching TV.
Ok..... If the Simpsons were on I could understand you missing it, but Battlestar Gallactica?:rofl
I will hold you to that for the next Sunday event Krusty :cool:
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Sunday Nite SEA was just awesome guys...but the framerate thing messed up my aiming when my FW190 screamed thru the large buff foramtion.
It sure felt real to me, for a moment I believe I was actually flying in WW11.
Great job & to the CM Team and all .. :aok
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I had a great time Sunday that was a great Snapshot event and I look forward to more of them on Sundays.
Special Kudos to everyone who landed and taxied in afterwards, that was just awesome.
As to framerates. I wonder what systems people are using, I have a 256mb GE6600, 1MB ram, in a AMD Athlon 64 3700+ processor running at 2.41ghz.
I never had a problem not even when I was flying through the buff stream chasing a 190.
Is my system that good? Or does setting vis range lower like I did really help?
Cheers
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I was at shift-F3 until I gave up and pulled away from the stream a few miles to hunt further out. It was like watching a slideshow on my end.
The terrain gave me problems down low, but nowhere near as bad as that buff flight did.
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Nefari and I are discussing the next event, and coming up with a few nuggets to chew on.
For a topic of discussion, we are thinking about simply reversing the roles, have the Axis on the advance with a massive bomber campaign.
Few things to test here, first is a different terrain to see if the impact is Load or Terrain, second is how the Axis turns out if it's perceived as the aggressor and not on defense.
Also, we are discussing the CMs putting the missions up. Log in, mission is ready to go, and if you come in late it's still up and you can grab a slot and climb out.
This has some pro's and con's, it's how Close Escort on Sunday is ran.
The missions would have the plane and loadout selected, and the general area to patrol, bomb etc, it would still require GLs to lead and maintain the formations, assign targets etc.
Thoughts?
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Been a busy few days.
Lots of good advice, not all I agree with. This arm chair CM would suggest the following.
1 – When ever possible try to make the design with bombers, escorts VS interceptors. I think that lends to the tastes of a variety of events players.
2- The idea of using CM’s as C.O.’s I was never in favor of, but I think for an event like this it would work. Of course if you have a community member that wants to C.O. they should get first crack at it.
3 – Having a variety of aircraft to choose from is a great idea. Couple that along with allowing the players (under the confines of the C.O.) pick what ride they want is a huge burden of management off the hosting CM and the C.O.’s. Brilliant! Who’s idea was that? Nef?
4 – CM’s putting up missions is a fine idea as they do in Close Escort. Would save a lot of head aches. I would run with that idea ROC. Yes I would also reverse the rolls. Ju88’s escorted by some 109’s or 190’s. Or maybe some 110’s. Mid or early war or the Ju88’s would be toast. Same thing for the PAC. Ki-67’s with escorts in a mid war frame.
5 – You guys need to setup a page for this event separate from the Snapshots ASAP. These are not Snapshots and you don’t want to start changing the Snapshots. Name the event. Get a page up and start posting the events write up’s so players can have a link to the event. Heck with walk on’s allowed you might have numbers equal to the FSO.
6 – Avoid the night time events. In other words I would not run them at night very often.
7 – Actively pursue another icon option with HTC. Icons off for enemy would ROCK! ;) I think the events community would find it very immersive.
You guys going to run this every Sunday or once a month?
Well done gents. I could see a dozen Mongrels participating in this on a regular basis once you get it going.
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I am against using missions as it requires use of the default skin. Many squadrons have skins available in game for their aircraft. The 4th FG all took 4th P-47D11s, but when I closed on some of the 56th guys they all had the default 78th FG skins from the mission planner. Sorta kills the atmosphere if everyone of the B-17s all look alike etc etc.
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the only thing i have to disagree with it Icons off ...
Im sorry but turn them off to my old Welder ruined eyes... And I'm done .. If you want that kind of emersion you have Icon toggle in game you as a player can use .
CM's as CO's was just a 1st run ,there needed to be some direction as for there isnt that many players stepping up to the plate .
We do need input on what direction you the players would like to see in a sunday night event ... Buff missions , dogfights, sea battles, gv fights , ect or would you like a mix of everything ???
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Hmm, Skins, good point.
More discussion coming, keep it flowing :)
Thanks DD :)
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1) Can there be missions for those who just want to fly in the event without much thinking. And for those that are planning on showing early be allowed to fly along in a custom skin? Missions can still be viewed so as to get info, like, plane, loadout, route.
2) I saw many individuals on the allied side who were not part of the "CM Team" that would and could lead the bomber/fighter groups. Most of them showed up early.
3) Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
4) Who wants to live throughout the event without getting a few kills first? I say, let them come at a group of B17s. Going at speeds less than full speed allows the other guys to have more fun as the Allied fighter escorts as well as B17 gunners. More fun for all.
5) 90 bomber planes in 1 group is not a good idea. So, if I had to pick a max amount, why not no more than 21.
6) Betty was a gunner of mine that gave me many six calls that saved me many times. Heck, it allowed me to shoot a few down and also get even more assists. Then again, a few Allied escorts really did stay off my wing and protect me. So, what I'm trying to say is, gunners really do help the B17s. Try to encourage those that die, to become a gunner for someone, instead of leaving.
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HB555, I've had to turn a group around for 2 squadies that werent' able to drop once, because they had to man their guns. Myself and the rest slowed down and did a full circle. Yes, we lost a few more planes, but everyone had at least 1 plane left in the end. We also got to land kills, each and every one of us. By going slow, we were able to do things smoothly as a group. By going smoothly, we were effectively going fast as a group. Any faster and it wouldn't have gone as smooth thereby causing us to go slower to stay smooth as a group. What are you going to do with this info HB555? I'm curious. As you can see, you can have 2 different outcomes. I'd like to continue this discussion further.
MGD, I'm confused. Can you please state the type of opinions and ideas you'd like?:)
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Again all do respect,
No kermit I will not. I was clear as I intended to be with your tactics and there results.
It just doesn't matter at the end of the day.
I know you are well versed in flying a bomber. You know what I'm trying to say. Nothing else needs to be said.
Daddog great bullet points! I agree 110% with all of it. I'm sorry we missed the B24's in the mission but that would have ended up messing up the formations a touch anyway so I guess with the mission planner the way it is it turned out for the best anyway.
MGD
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How about disabling formations? That can actually be fun, to run a close-knit group of bombers, but no formations. Also means you can jink more (no drones to lose) -- Ju88s were noted as quite manuverable.
How about '42/'43 channel region, spitVs, hurr2s, Ju88s, 109Fs&Gs, maybe 190a5s? Maybe a few 190a5s and spit9s for each side (keep 'em rare)?
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Oh, and what time are they being run next week? I didn't catch them this time so I don't know.
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I like the idea of having formations off. That would do a few things.
1. Make smaller groups for fps
2. More dead guys to be gunners
3. Get rid of the horrid drone warp
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I do not understand your behaviour towards me in this thread. I understand an argument is uncalled for, but can we at least have a discussion?
You asked for people to give thoughts, ideas or new concepts and I've done that. I'm no different than the rest who have posted in this thread tossing up ideas at you and anyone else who can make a difference.
I guess what you are trying to say is, do not comment on how to make the last mission better, but what kind of mission I'd like to do with a bunch of people with little overheard so that walkons may get involved very quickly. If this is the case, then why only me when everyone else seems to be on the wrong topic?
Yes, I did have a good time, and thank you to those responsible for putting this together.
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I aint mad at ya Kermie ... I'm listening ...
As for manifold at 40 ...sometimes that is alittle fast for others to keep up . and we see that 35-40 buff formations is alittle over welming on that particular terrain ... we Have better luck with the BOB terrain for that many buff sets .
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Kermit,
you stated:
"HB555, I've had to turn a group around for 2 squadies that werent' able to drop once, because they had to man their guns. Myself and the rest slowed down and did a full circle. Yes, we lost a few more planes, but everyone had at least 1 plane left in the end. We also got to land kills, each and every one of us. By going slow, we were able to do things smoothly as a group. By going smoothly, we were effectively going fast as a group. Any faster and it wouldn't have gone as smooth thereby causing us to go slower to stay smooth as a group. What are you going to do with this info HB555? I'm curious. As you can see, you can have 2 different outcomes. I'd like to continue this discussion further."
What I would propose to do with your information is about what I would have proposed to you had you written nothing more than what worked and what was fun for you, and that is the following:
I will follow your lead and do it your way if you are my bomber leader, I would expect you to do it my way and follow my lead if I were your bomber leader.
Neither of us is totally wrong or totally right for all situations.
I was only pointing out my thoughts on how to get the assigned mission accomplished with the largest rate of survival for bomber crews based on my experiences in scenarios, snapshots, close escorts, main arenas and many other events over the past 15 years of flying them, 45 plus years of reading about WWII bomber missions, and being fortunate enough to have been able to talk to, and become friends of, a number of bomber crewmen who actually flew in the ETO and PTO during the years of the war.
My idea of fun is to try to get the mission done to the best of my ability, and as a leader, try to get as many of my group home as is possible.
Getting kills is not my primary mission as a bomber crewman, pilot or gunner. It is the primary mission of the escorts to get the kills, for they have no other reason to be above or around my bomber group but to kill the "bad guys" so that I can accomplish my mission.
As a pilot and/or a group leader, it is my primary mission to deliver as many of my/our bombs on target and on time as I can, and get myself and my group home in one piece. Only as a necessity, and for stricktly defensive purposes, will I step to the rear of my plane and take up a gunner position.
Never for the sake of being able to say I landed "a kill", and especially never for the sake of being able to say I landed "a kill" and it only cost me two bomber aircraft and the lives of ten crew
See, just a difference in what is important to, and what is fun for, each of us.
Now wasn't that simple?
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HB555:
You said what works for me and what makes it fun for me is totally in disagreement with what works for you and is fun for you in regards to that statement you quoted me on. You totally disagree with me. Okay. Yet then say that we are both right/wrong. If you know that we are both right/wrong, then why give an example of you showing why I'm wrong and then giving an example that demonstrates historical similarities to your example so that you somehow prove I'm totally wrong.
Otherside of coin:
I'm sure you have heard of real stories of bomber groups, combat wings all flying over the target again because not all dropped their bombs. They sometimes ALL went back over the target, or would circle at a rally point. Then they would leave home together. (At full throttle? I don't think so)
I'm currently thinking that by you disagreeing with me,you believe that I'm wrong. I really don't care whether you agree or not, but to try to say I'm wrong by giving biased historical information isn't good.
Regarding other things you've said.
Some fighter escorts give priority to their squadron over the bombers. If the squadron gets home alive then mission accomplished while others would rather see the bombers make it out alive and yet still, others would be happy if they each got 1 kill and stayed alive as a fighter squadron.
Some bomber groups would be happy to hit their target on the ground as well as get a few kills as well as make it out with as many planes as possible.
Again, this is just arguing about differences in what makes these events fun for others as I'm sure you are fully aware of being as CM.
(My example about getting a lot of kills and losing some planes was just an example. Kills vs drones lost on that mission must have been 3:1. Odds were not with us, but we survived. You might want to forget what you think is "important and fun" for me.)
Instead of trying to prove me wrong with biased historical information as well as a baised AH example, you can just give out ideas of what You would like to see, add or change in these Sunday's events?
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<-- Grabs some popcorn and a six-pack. ;)
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Kermit,
I can see that there is no point in continueing this "discussion."
Where oh WHERE did I use the phrese "at full throttle?"
You are 100% right and I am 100% wrong. I am all biased, unknowing, and wasting your time and mine.
Gaming and real life are never exactly the same, so again, as I said before, I say, you do it your way and have fun, I'll do it mine and have an equal amount of fun.
You win.
Have fun.
End of discussion.
End of responses.
This game is over.
Score:
Kermit de frog 7,045,963
Snoopy 0
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All parties will cease hostilities at once.
Frankly I'm just glad to see people willing to fly bombers. There are alot of guys who will ONLY fly fighters, who to be honest should be in bombers.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
All parties will cease hostilities at once.
Frankly I'm just glad to see people willing to fly bombers. There are alot of guys who will ONLY fly fighters, who to be honest should be in bombers.
Filth..HB555..Kermit
Well done guys!. Lets face it, you guys kicked our back sides all the way to Wiesbaden.
In response to your discussion about events that took place, I had to ask myself this question:
What good will come from rehashing events that took place after the fact?Decisions were made , events unfolded. end of story
I did it too, so I'm just as guilty as the next guy.
What I think we are trying to do exclusively in this forum is to try to gather new ideas for Sunday night events.
I enjoyed the event, but do I want to see the same one run week after week? Nope
I'm diggin the enthuseasim though... you got to love this:aok
4XTCH
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Originally posted by HB555
I totally disagree with Kermit, who said, "Also, during exit, the bombers were at full throttle, thereby not letting the ones in the back catch up.
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast."
Drop and get. Thats how it was done then. That's how it should be done now, and I would feel the same if I was tail end charlie and got blasted, if it saved a bunch of others.
As you can see, you quoted me on not liking the "full throttle" during exit and you then say you "totally disagree" with that so therefore, you wish to go full throttle. It is possible that you didn't mean that. But this is not the point.
The point is "Instead of trying to prove me wrong with biased historical information, as well as a baised AH example, can you just try give out ideas of what You would like to see, add or change in these Sunday's events?" The answer to this question should be "yeah, I made a mistake, sorry about that, to contribute to this thread, I'd like an event with ..."
I hope I'm not being too harsh HB555. Thanks for not going into name calling or getting any negative emotions over this.
As for MGD, I understand the point of this thread now, but my question still stands. Why the difference in treatment towards me when compared to others? I think I'm prepared to receive an answer from you. I gave hopefully some usefull ideas so that if you ever do another bomber/escort/interceptor mission, you'll have some ideas to improve that just like a few other individuals. If you do a GV mission, then I guess you can ignore me, because my tips would then be useless.
There is not one person in this thread that I do not respect.
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FiLtH,
The way you lead us, I would follow you to the end of the world...well, our virtual world.
Only thing I can think of to add (in retrospect) is go with a salvo 3 and also assign near and far drop areas to the left, left center, center etc., if we have enough to get the job done.
I love bombers, am pretty decent in them and am proud to be assigned to them.
Lead on!
Personally, I enjoyed flying with every pilot of both sides, and as far as 4XTCH's " Lets face it, you guys kicked our back sides all the way to Wiesbaden." I can only say that you "bad guys" just had a bad day and we look forward to our next encounter.
I think those of you who did find and attacked us did an outstanding job with what you had to work with, and all Axis pilots I saw flew with the professionalism one would expect from the highly skilled fighter pilots the Axis always fields.
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Those leading bomber formations in the future may find the following useful. The same information can be developed for any bomber.
Ruhr Valley Command staff - XO
(modified for E6B, was originally MP)
Requirements for the B-17:
To maintain level flight with some directional control and #4 engine out.
Conditions:
22,000 feet
50% fuel, 1394 gallons
Bomb load of 3,000 lbs (dump half the load)
Max inbound to target True Air Speed (TAS) for the group is 225 mph.
Max return to base TAS is 244 mph.
Two engines out -
Conditions:
22,000 feet
25% fuel, 692 gallons
Bomb load of zero
The B-17 can't maintain level flight or the necessary TAS at 22,000 feet with two engines out but it can successfully rtb at lower altitudes.
Orders applicable to situation:
Dive ahead of the bomber stream and exit left or right below dar to avoid enemy fighters following the bomber group.
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Daddog great bullet points! I agree 110% with all of it. I'm sorry we missed the B24's in the mission but that would have ended up messing up the formations a touch anyway so I guess with the mission planner the way it is it turned out for the best anyway.
Rgr MGD. I figured you guys had a good reason for it.
Roscoroo, get some glasses. :D
As for turning off formations. I would not like to see that. I think most in my squad, if not all would agree. For example we had a formation of 12 buffs last Sunday. Of the 4 formations, 3 had gunners (Some new players that are checking out our squad). All 12 bombers were shot down in about 2 minutes after a formation of Me-110's found us. IMHO players need the formations.
Mongrels are happy to fly anything, but if formations are turned we would probably not fly any bombers.
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Hate to say this, but maybe your gunners sucked?
110s have a decent chance of shooting down 1 formation, maybe... It's very hard to reposition for another attack and usually you fall into a dead-6 attack. Once there, you get chewed up and sometimes spit out.
Other times you just get digested.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Hate to say this, but maybe your gunners sucked?
110s have a decent chance of shooting down 1 formation, maybe... It's very hard to reposition for another attack and usually you fall into a dead-6 attack. Once there, you get chewed up and sometimes spit out.
Other times you just get digested.
Ahh but these 110s had uber pilots...they (the bombers) had no chance at survival.:t
To daddog's defense, there were almost as many 110s as there were bombers, and we had alt. there was 1 higher escort in the area but he died first and didn't seem to even know his bombers were nearby and in trouble.... We lost a couple 110s who had to rtb with damage and that wouldn't have happened if they had approached the bombers correctly.
110s would never have been relegated to a dead 6 attack Krusty. Only patience is required to avoid this, along with the correct approach and a few k alt adv. Why some fighters always go in on a buff's dead 6 I'll never understand. I guess maybe it's easier for them to aim, but likewise, it makes the gunners aim easier. 10, 2, 4, and 8 people!
Again, I would rather have died after finding and fighting the main group than live through the smaller groups we found and never be able to get to the main group.
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Hate to say this, but maybe your gunners sucked?
110s have a decent chance of shooting down 1 formation, maybe... It's very hard to reposition for another attack and usually you fall into a dead-6 attack. Once there, you get chewed up and sometimes spit out.
Other times you just get digested.
Sucked? LOL Average would be more accurate. No great bomber pilots in my squad. As Goose said they had about as many 110's as we had buffs. Was not long before we were all dead. As for your comment "110s have a decent chance of shooting down 1 formation, maybe..." What dream world do you live in? They took out 4.
Bomber formations are needed. If nothing else to help the gunners that suck. ;)
You of course Krusty are welcome to un-check your bomber formations. :D
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I like these discussions, it shows the focus and priorities that people have.
A few points though, before we stray too far into who can't aim or shoot :rofl
The hardest thing to grasp in an Event compared to the MA is Killing the other plane isn't always the objective.
Consider a massive bomber raid, where Every Single Bomber was left alive yet was distracted Just as they came to the point of calibration and were hit. They blew their calibration by rushing, jumping to guns, evading or whatever, and simply missed the target.
All bombers survive, all targets missed, Victory to the Axis, correct?
If the bombers have a wall of defenders up, and it's difficult to get in close to disrupt the bombers, then your attack fighter group needs to open a hole up. Now, you can take a weaker plane and "attack" the stronger plane by tempting them away, drawing them off and opening a hole for your bomber attack group to get into. Drawing away their defense is Equally Important as getting a kill, as the whole point of Killing the plane is to remove their defense.
There is more to this than what plane can kill the other plane. We've got to get out of the habit of comparing plane set to plane set in these things. There have been far too many side switch events where one team dominated both sides to justify the bad plane matchup argument. I rarely buy into that.
If we can maintain this concept, it will be far easier to keep people in the events for the duration, as well as make it easier to join up to a perceived "underdog" side when in fact the underdog position is a Frame of Mind, not a physical fact.
Every Plane has an advantage and disadvantage. There is not One plane that is so superior that it will Always Prevail, no matter what. It is important that as we leave the MA mentality behind in events, we leave them Fully and Completely. When the planeset is announced, find the Best and Worst of Both Planes and exploit it. You need to know what your opposition Can and Cannot do.
You will get as much out of the events as you put into them. Building a core group of active, aggressive, dedicated players who thrive on pushing the limits of the event design that has been handed to them will always get the most enjoyment out of the game. If you are stuck in a rut of One Method, One Way, then in events that are as fluid as we have, you are going to be very unhappy Most of the time. Events are supposed to break molds, break habits, force the unusual and extreme.
Keep these concepts in mind as we continue this experiment. There are far far more ways to win than a plane kill. Once you tap into these resources, you just increased your gaming experience 10 fold.
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Well, it looks like sticking to the facts really does help with discussions.
So, now that that is over. Will the next Sunday 9pm EST senario be this sunday? Every Sunday or the first sunday of the month? What will the next event be?
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I think we are going to try for the 25th. The next sunday after an off FSO weekend.
That will give us time to take in all the discussions, promote it more, build up for a better night.
There have been several requests for perhaps an hour earlier, 8pm EST.
Any thoughts on the Time Frame for these things?
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I prefer 9pm et. Sunday nights are funny and I need a lil extra time before I turn on the PC normally.
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With respect,
Why not capitalize on the interest generated sooner rather than later, why wait a month?
What difference does FSO have to do with a Snapshot on sunday night?
Hire more CMs if you need to.
Run a Snap on Sunday nights, seems popular, good attendance, we dont need a "big discussion" just run it.
Regards.
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Because we are trying to develop an event, not Run Snapshots on Sunday Night.
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Originally posted by Nefarious
Because we are trying to develop an event, not Run Snapshots on Sunday Night.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here...
It's an event even if it's just once every week. FSO is an event. KOTH is an event. I don't mean to be rude, I just honestly don't follow...
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Originally posted by Krusty
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here...
It's an event even if it's just once every week. FSO is an event. KOTH is an event. I don't mean to be rude, I just honestly don't follow...
And its an event even if its ran once a year.
I Don't want to run Snapshots on Sunday. I want to run a new event. Something that isnt FSO or Snapshots or Scenarios or Close Escort etc.
Thats why we are trying to develop an new event. Should of stated it a little better
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Originally posted by Krusty
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here...
It's an event even if it's just once every week. FSO is an event. KOTH is an event. I don't mean to be rude, I just honestly don't follow...
we're not trying to build a historic matchup Snapshot event , nor are we wanting another FSO .... were after something inbetween ... you may see historic battles , you may see something new and off the wall . :noid
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I like the Sunday-night time slot.
This one was fun. I'd like to see something like it run every Sunday but with a variety of genres: Germany, eastern front, Pacific theater, North Africa, Italy, bomber-escort missions, low-level missions, carrier battles, early war, mid war, late war, different plane sets, different countries, etc. -- even alternate-history stuff like US vs. Russia, Germany vs. Japan over the Rangoon area.
Ideally, I'd like something different every week -- but most importantly, I'd like to be able to fly in such an event every Sunday.
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This may be a good time to submit ideas for a name for this "event".
If I may interject my own personal opinion and thoughts on an aspect of bomber Vs. any attacker(s)...
What ROC mentioned earlier is very true, about disrupting a bomb run during calibration or drop time.
Keeping you SA is important as you approach your target. Knowing what is closing on you and how fast they are coming is critical to the timing of an accurate drop.
There have been times it was prudent for the success of the mission to give an attacker 1 or more of my planes to make a good drop, and then as soon as the bombs have been released, jump to the guns. By then, the attacker is either far enough out that you have time to relocate and set on him, or he is so darn close even a gunner that sucked could hit him.
In the meantime, your drop is good, target destroyed, mission listed as successful.
In the SEA, it pays to understand what points are worth giving up to accumulate more in another area. Targets worth more or RTB's worth more, as an example. In a 1 life event, is it more important to get the plane home for the next run, or more important to hit your assigned target?
The rules spell it all out, usually, so all you have to do is read and understand them (or ask someone who can and does).
End of personal opinion and thoughts.
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"Sunday Bash "
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"S.E.A. BASH"?..... Nah... sounded funnier in my head...
I like the "Sunday Bash" or "Sunday Night Bash"
4XTCH
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Originally posted by ROC
There have been several requests for perhaps an hour earlier, 8pm EST.
Any thoughts on the Time Frame for these things?
Well us Eastern Time Zone guys have work the next morning. That extra hour means alot for participation and reduced coffee intake the next morning.
ROC, you going to post any of the screen captures for advertising?
Cheers
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We need to do this (http://www.squadselectseries.com/) on sunday nights. Most right coasters would even be up for an 8:30 EST start time.
fighters and bombers and jabo's....oh my
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Thanks Fencer51
The Film and Screenshots for the event were Great! Not having had the chance to stay fully immersed in the event, I spent over an hour just watching the film and the event unfold, man that looked fun.
Here are a few pics Fencer51 sent of the mission.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/983_1172952787_1stengagementonbuffs.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/983_1172952811_4thfgoverbuffs.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/983_1172952835_boozerand190.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/983_1172952873_fencersecondkill.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/983_1172952898_filthandfencer.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/983_1172952936_firstipshotupbuffs.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/983_1172953010_ipfilthtakesthemin.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/983_1172953035_struckbythunder_tryingforhome.jpg)
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Originally posted by Brooke
I like the Sunday-night time slot.
This one was fun. I'd like to see something like it run every Sunday but with a variety of genres: Germany, eastern front, Pacific theater, North Africa, Italy, bomber-escort missions, low-level missions, carrier battles, early war, mid war, late war, different plane sets, different countries, etc. -- even alternate-history stuff like US vs. Russia, Germany vs. Japan over the Rangoon area.
Ideally, I'd like something different every week -- but most importantly, I'd like to be able to fly in such an event every Sunday.
Women are so smart.
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Women are so smart.
Yes, they are. But why quote Brookes comments and reply with this?
:D
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Kermit,
It just doesn't matter.
We are trying to make something happen on Sunday night's.
I did take offence to your comments and actions during the mission & I stand behind my observations. Next time you lead the flight I'll show you what my idea of follow a game plan. As dumb as you may feel the plan was... this one worked. It's always a gamble.
MGD
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For the record I like the name "Sunday Night Scramble"
MGD
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I felt at the time that the original plan was a good idea.
I followed the flight path and the main groups everyturn.
I step up only when necessary.
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MGD,
you've got mail.
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For the last time for kermits sake. It's well done & over with. I like your idea Filth but as usual that would be a command call.
We are going to nail this event down. Make sure to keep an eye out for future Sunday Night Events!
MGD
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I just want to know when the next one will be. :aok