Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Xasthur on June 26, 2008, 02:05:43 PM
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I will be working on this skin at the same time as my Ta 152 'Yellow 1' JG 301 skin.
This 190 A8 Sturmbock 'Rauhbautz VII' was flown by Leutnant Klaus Bretschneider who achieved 14 night-fighter kills and 17 'Sturm' kills, including one by ramming. Klaus was killed in action on 24 December in a dogfight with P-51s. He went down in 'Rauhbautz VII' somewhere near Kassel.
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk172/Wurger_1944/BretschneiderProfile.jpg)
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk172/Wurger_1944/Klaustwo.jpg)
I will produce more photos and screenshots as I make progress on this tribute.
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Great Paint Scheme - always liked JG300. :aok
(http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/5319/30520242uy8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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Beauty! Can't wait to see this :aok
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Great Paint Scheme - always liked JG300. :aok
(http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/5319/30520242uy8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
LOVE those top two paintings. My good 'ole 303rd BG bombers are in it :D
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Gunna be a nice skin.
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Jester, they are magnificent. Thanks very much, mate, I really appreciate that.
I'll be sure to do it justice.
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Progress on this skin is coming along slowly but surely. I'm on the final stretch now and I've done 90% of the tedious and boring stuff.
I am currently working on the 'Rauhbautz VII' marking on the port cockpit armour plate and I've hit a wall with it.
With my current photoshop skills I'm really struggling to reproduce this in a manner that doesn't end up looking like a pixelated and jagged mess. As this is one of more individual aspects of this aircraft, I want it to be perfect or as close to perfect as possible.
So, I ask for the help of the skilled with techniques for creating this piece of the skin. I've looked up a few tutes online and tried their smooth edge approach but I can't seem to get much to work given the narrowness of what I'm working with. All of the tutes deal with 400 pixel wide stuff, I'm working with 1 and 2 pixels at final size.
I've tried working at 4 times the size, smoothing, re-sizing down to no avail and I've run out of ideas on how to get this looking acceptable.
This is the image I am currently working from.
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/Skins/bretschneider2.jpg)
Any methods you guys have for creating quality looking nose art would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks lads,
-Arch
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Working on Red 8 right now. :aok
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Arch,
The limitations are the pixels obviously there is only so much you can do. Remember this is not a photo or painting, people are not going to be standing 3 feet away (in game) looking at the aircraft.
Cheers
Fencer
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Salute Arch,
I have written this reply about 3 times now :) I hope I dont sound condensending as that is not my intent. I dont know your level of expertise with graphics in different enviornments (Raster graphics vs. Vectored graphics.) It sounds like you are reaching the limits of rasterization at the actual needed size of your graphic.
Raster:
The nature of a raster graphic (Photoshop) is the use of colored pixels working together to produce output, when viewed, that generates an overall impression. When you get into the 1 or 2 pixel size at actual, you lose detail. An example of this is when you magnify a Rastered graphic, it blurs and looks unsavory. The more you resize a Raster (up or down) the detail starts to dwindle.
Vector:
The nature of a Vectored graphic (Illustrator, Freehand, ect.) is a series of mathematical lines that are given assignment to the graphic. No matter how much you resize a Vector, the mathematical assignment of the lines do not change. The graphic is just as clear (or crisp) no matter the final output size.
Now, the problem skinners run into is that no matter the source we use to create our skins, the final output MUST be rastered (8x indexed bitmap.) There is no single technique that will allow you to have a perfectly crisp graphic (in your case, the noseart) at the end item size you require. Some detail is going to be lost due to the final rastering of the skin. I will optimize my nosearts as much as I can, but a lot of the time the noseart has to be balanced at the reduced size to give the "illusion" of being crisp. Now this isnt necessarily the case with the particular graphic you are talking about. Being the graphic is handpainted line-art, at that particular size, I would do it like this...
Step 1.
Using a vectoring program, I would create the graphic at a larger than needed size, say 256x256. Being the final output size is so small, I would only use the primary color (in this example..red) with no outline color. Once the graphic is created, I would export that vectored graphic as a .tif format.
Step 2.
Now that I have my .tif, I would open it in Photoshop. Once opened in Photoshop, remove the white background that surrounds the lineart. The easy way to do this is to use a Photoshop plug-in called "remove white." You can find that at Simmerspaintshop.com. Once all white is removed, select all. Copy, create new document with a transparent background, paste. Save new document as a .png with alpha transparency.
Step 3.
Open your original skin .psd and find the "end size" you need the lineart to be. I generally do this by using the square marquee, drawing the marquee on the skin in the position and size needed. Select the background layer, then edit/copy. Create new document. This will give you the final dementions the lineart needs to be. Press cancel as you dont need this new document, you only needed the size.
Step 4.
Using the transparent .png, resize it using the navigator box window. This is done by pressing the "-" (minus) button on the left of that box window. It will give you an immediate feedback on what that graphic will look like at that size you reduced to. If it looks blocky, click filter/blur/gaussian blur. Only base your adjustments for every 25% of minimization. For example, 50% will look good. However, 66.7% will look bad. Use small increments of adjustment in the blur menu. If it still looks good, but still too large, do the same thing again. Reduce, blur, ect. Once at the size you feel is right, and crispness you feel is right...press the print screen button on your keyboard.
Step5.
Ceate new document. Edit/Paste. Using the square marquee again, select only the borders of the lineart (it will be at the reduced size you did by using the navigator window. Edit/Crop. You now will only have the lineart selected with a white background. Use "remove white" again or Select all. Using the Magic Wand tool, press and hold the Alt key. Select the outside white borders of the lineart. Once all selected, you will see that only the lineart itself has the "dancing ants" from the marquee. Using the arrow keys on your keyboard, move the lineart up one pixel, then back down 1 pixel to the original place. Edit/Copy. Create new document. Paste.
You should now have the new lineart at correct size and crispness. Just copy that layer with the graphic on it and paste it into your skin. Resize or do any fine tuning needed and you should be good. Make sure that you are not indexing your final work for test by using the Photoshop plugin for indexing. You should use a 3rd party utility like "Bright", also found at Simmerspaintshop.
This is just a generalization of how I do it bud. Your mileage may vary :D Hope this helped point you in a direction you hadn't thought of.
ReDhAwK
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Heh. Or what Fencer said :) Very to the point IMO.
(he replied while I was writing)
ReDhAwK
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Brilliant, thank you for the quick replies gents.
I'll let you know how I go with your highly informative method, Redhawk. :salute
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This took me about 10 minutes to work up. I tested it on the 190A8 template and it should be about the right size. Its not perfect but its something you could work off of. If you want I have one sized up about twice as big.
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/Rauhbautz.png)
Here's the full size one. I have a few pictures of it some show it in red some in yellow. I don't really know which one was right so I just did the yellow.
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/RauhbautzII.png)
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BoSoxfan, that is absolutely amazing... Thank you so much.
:salute
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Here's a little better version.
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/RauhbautzIII.png)
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Cheers mate, you're a champion.
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Progress shots
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/Skins/ahss3-1.jpg)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/Skins/ahss4-1.jpg)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/Skins/ahss5-1.jpg)
I'm not so sure about the red lower cowl... all the artists impressions seem to show it as being red but I have one photo showing it RLM 76.... a replacement cowl or pre-painting perhaps? I'm undecided on that part.
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<S> Xasthur. Really a fine looking skin so far. I know its a work in progress and I do believe its going to come out to be quite a stunner.
A few thoughts, which perhaps you just haven't got to yet, but in any case:
- the dark grey/lt grey border between camo and base color I think could be a bit more feathered (based on your artwork profiles). I used a size 9 or 13 feathered edge paintbrush in Photoshop and go over the border in a separate layer to acheive this affect - when I get it looking right I merge the layers.
- the red seems to intense to me - I think dialing down the saturation and opacity would make it look less stark against the rest of the skin.
- the iron crosses seem exactly right on; I think the black in the cross is done just right as a dark dark grey, but missing from upper wing surfaces
- the black rectangle on the side of the nose just aft the cowling is too dark - there should be some detail of vents within according to your profiles - and in the formation painting, the dark square isn't present at all - its just a darkened area with heavy exhaust stains.
- rivets on the landing gear doors stand out too much
- the tail surface could use a bit more mottling; perhaps with a hint of Guassian blur filter thrown in to soften the edges.
Just my thoughts - I've not done a Luftwaffe skin myself. Again, I know its a WIP shot and you probably just haven't got to some details yet. I think its a great-looking scheme and expect it will be a popular ride for A8 drivers.
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Unless you have photos that show it the way you've skinned it, I wouldn't make the camo different on the side armor panel. It should be seamless, for the most part (not counting that fuel/whatever stain dripping down the rear edge)
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Thanks Oboe, all of the fine details you mentioned are just stop-gaps so I can see how it all comes together. I still need to smooth edges out and desaturate a few things.
Thanks for the suggestions though, they're always appreciated. :salute
Krusty, I see what you're saying but I think it's a fairly accurate representation of the actual armour plate.
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/Skins/bretschneider2.jpg)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/WWII/fw190a_r1.jpg)
The aircraft was painted before the plate was added, so the field painter has obvioulsy tried to blend it in a little.
Perhaps I need to mottle the section between the exhaust and the armour plate a little more. Cheers for the heads up.
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Hi Xasthur,
First of all, unfortunately those newer Osprey colour plates aren't always known for their accuracy. That particular profile is a good example of that. :(
Couple of things that come to mind:
- If that underside of the cowl was painted in any colour differing from light grey (RLM 76) it was yellow, not red.
- Also the spinner should be black instead of red. It can be seen from the picture that you posted:
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/WWII/fw190a_r1.jpg)
As you can see, the spinner and the tactical number red 1 (which we know is red) have a very distinct shade difference. Also in place of those two "onion rings" that have been copied from the default A-8 skin over and over again should be a spiral which starts from the tip of the spinner. The guy who did the default skins for A-8 and the D-9 probably just looked at a side profile and "connected the dots" wrongly. The onion rings look pretty silly in flight while the spiral just looks plain cool. Like I said, so far everyone has just copied the default skin maker's mistake, no one has gotten it right yet.
Here's a picture how they were appied in JG 1 but it shows how it basically should look. Bad quality JPG, but it shows what it needs to show:
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y134/IIJG2_Harbauer/JG1spinner.jpg)
- I wouldn't use different shade on that side armour plate. IMO that pic doesn't really show that there should be any shade differences between the armour plate and the rest of the fuselage after all same paints were used to paint both, no matter when the plate was attached to the aircraft. What could be done is a little shade to the edge of the armour plate to make it come off of the surface of the fuselage.
- Right now the area behind the exhaust stacks looks like a pitch black retangle with very little detail on it. The black area should reach higher...to where the MG cover starts. Also a bit lighter shade with more detail would look better.
I wouldn't normally tell a skinner to look reference from a plastic model but IMO this guy has done very good job and I agree with his interpretations on how this plane should look. There are very cool weathering effects on the model like the oily DT and oil streaks around the cowling, red primer blotches on the cowl, etc. Check out the link:
http://hsfeatures.com/features04/fw190a8rauhbautzcw_1.htm (http://hsfeatures.com/features04/fw190a8rauhbautzcw_1.htm)
(http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/fw190a8raubautzcw_26.jpg)
Here a real photo showing similar oiling of the cowling used in the model...
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/dibujorn4.jpg)
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As you can see, the spinner and the tactical number red 1 (which we know is red) have a very distinct shade difference. Also in place of those two "onion rings" that have been copied from the default A-8 skin over and over again should be a spiral which starts from the tip of the spinner. The guy who did the default skins for A-8 and the D-9 probably just looked at a side profile and "connected the dots" wrongly. The onion rings look pretty silly in flight while the spiral just looks plain cool. Like I said, so far everyone has just copied the default skin maker's mistake, no one has gotten it right yet.
Unfortunately it's impossible to do a spiral on the 190 skins (beside the Ta152) because only half of the skinner is mapped, which is mirrored on the skin, making it impossible to do a spiral. The 'onion ring' is simply the next best thing.
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Unfortunately it's impossible to do a spiral on the 190 skins (beside the Ta152) because only half of the skinner is mapped, which is mirrored on the skin, making it impossible to do a spiral. The 'onion ring' is simply the next best thing.
Aw man! :( I didn't know that. Quite frankly that is not the smartest way to map spinners for planes that so often had spiraled spinners (Even the default skin after all!). :confused: Anyway, personally I think just plain straight stripes with a small white area in the tip of the spinner would look a lot better.
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Aw man! :( I didn't know that. Quite frankly that is not the smartest way to map spinners for planes that so often had spiraled spinners (Even the default skin after all!). :confused: Anyway, personally I think just plain straight stripes with a small white area in the tip of the spinner would look a lot better.
Yeah, the 109 skin, even the old C.2 skins (and I imagine a lot more, haven't messed with many others) have both sides of the spinner so you can do a spiral (though for some reason there's 2-3 inches of spinner on the ends of the fuselage of the 109, the rest of it on a different part of the bitmap all together.... :huh just makes the annoying and difficult process of doing a spiral even more annoying and difficult... ), I can't figure out any reason why HTC would have mapped it that way, as I remember the 190 skin isn't that strapped for space but... oh well. As far as doing straight lines instead of diagonals, that's just 'tradition' I guess, much like omitting the Swastika altogether on German skins has become 'tradition' instead of replacing it with a black square (as per the default Ta152 skin) or an Iron Cross or something. IMO the diagonal lines kind of give the illusion of being a spiral, but it's all in the eyes of the beholder.
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Yeh, I knew about the 109 spinner being split between the fuselage and the true spinner halves. The reason why I would rather see straight lines is because then it wouldn't look so stupid when the prop turns. I just took a look to the A-8 skin. It is pretty full of stuff but even with just the space used by one spinner half a better solution would be a round texture which would then "wrap around the spinner from above".
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/190A81.jpg)
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Yeh, I knew about the 109 spinner being split between the fuselage and the true spinner halves. The reason why I would rather see straight lines is because then it wouldn't look so stupid when the prop turns. I just took a look to the A-8 skin. Even just with the space used by one spinner half a better solution would be a round which would then "wrap around the spinner from above".
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/190A81.jpg)
HTC saw this solution and implemented it with the Ta-152 skin. However changing it on the other 190's now would mean that all the skins currently made for the 190's would no longer work, and have to be redone.
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still think it looks beautiful
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Hi Xasthur,
First of all, unfortunately those newer Osprey colour plates aren't always known for their accuracy. That particular profile is a good example of that. :(
Couple of things that come to mind:
- If that underside of the cowl was painted in any colour differing from light grey (RLM 76) it was yellow, not red.
- Also the spinner should be black instead of red. It can be seen from the picture that you posted:
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/WWII/fw190a_r1.jpg)
- I wouldn't use different shade on that side armour plate. IMO that pic doesn't really show that there should be any shade differences between the armour plate and the rest of the fuselage after all same paints were used to paint both, no matter when the plate was attached to the aircraft. What could be done is a little shade to the edge of the armour plate to make it come off of the surface of the fuselage.
- Right now the area behind the exhaust stacks looks like a pitch black retangle with very little detail on it. The black area should reach higher...to where the MG cover starts. Also a bit lighter shade with more detail would look better.
Thanks for the suggestions, Wmaker.
- I have a photo of the lower cowl showing it to be RLM 76. I had hoped to find something that depicts a red cowl but it seems that this will not be the case. The same for the spinner.
- The armour plate is not painted thickly enough, it does look a little too light. I think the photo looks like the armour plate is slightly less opaque than the fuselage but you're right, it should be darker.
- The exhaust stack is just a black blob, I have done nothing to it at all yet. See my 190 A5 skin for what it will look like when I've done that part.
Thanks for the suggestions mate. :salute
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Hi again Xasthur,
Found Claes Sundin's profile from the depths of my HD:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/FW190A-8R2.gif)
It matches pretty nicely with the photos and the model with some small differences.
All in all, it's about ten times better than the one from Osprey. :)
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Thanks mate.
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Just a little update:
I'm hugely busy at the moment... but I've decided to start back on working on this skin. I can only spare a couple of hours every other week, though, so it will probably be pretty slow progess.
With my fresh eyes I've noticed that the fuselage armor patern I was using was completely wrong, so I've just spent some time re-doing that to come up with a shape that reflects what I have in my photos of the aircraft.
Apparently taking extended breaks from skinning is good for that sort of thing... fresh eye for details.
Anyway, this skin isn't dead and most of the hard work is done.
The fuselage cammo including mottling and dirt is almost completely done and the wings are done.
I just need to get the national markings right and fix up the camo on a few other surfaces... then sort out the visibility of hatches and latches and all that.
It shouldn't be too much more than a month away I think.
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Just for the benefit of anyone wanting to do a sturmbock, this is what I settled on as an accurate representation of the fuselage armor:
(http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/fw190a832bg_7.jpg)
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Archaius....when you do the canopy the front windscreen has what the LW called "blinkers" installed.
Heavy bullit proof glass on the front of windsreen and the two side panels of the same.
Start looks great!
You may be able to show this by making the front canopy frames (3 frames 1 front two sides 1left and 1right)
black and giving them depth.
190A8/R8s had these blinkers installed.
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The 'blinkers' were interesting.
I'm not sure how one would go about doing them on a skin without making them look awful... There isn't much room to play with the actual 'glass' area of the canopy, is there?
In any case, Klaus had the blinkers removed from his aircraft so I hadn't planned on including them.
Most of the photos I have of the JG 300 aircraft show them sans blinkers.
The cockpit armor was definitely there, though.
Cheers mate.
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Archaius....when you do the canopy the front windscreen has what the LW called "blinkers" installed.
Heavy bullit proof glass on the front of windsreen and the two side panels of the same.
Start looks great!
You may be able to show this by making the front canopy frames (3 frames 1 front two sides 1left and 1right)
black and giving them depth.
190A8/R8s had these blinkers installed.
Do you suppose you could find an image of these? I am curious as to what they look like!
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Do you suppose you could find an image of these? I am curious as to what they look like!
It's just extra panels of armored glass on the canopy.
Model stuff:
(http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/fw190a8r848bg_19.jpg)
(http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/fw190a8r848bg_36.jpg)
Real thing:
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/193/fw190panzerglasvj9.jpg)
Often "deleted" for visibility reasons, i believe.
wrongway
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It's just extra panels of armored glass on the canopy.
Model stuff:
(http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/fw190a8r848bg_19.jpg)
(http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/fw190a8r848bg_36.jpg)
Real thing:
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/193/fw190panzerglasvj9.jpg)
Often "deleted" for visibility reasons, i believe.
wrongway
Spot on, good images.
The 'Blinkers' are the panels that mounted onto the side of the canopy. The gap between the armored glass panels and the actual canopy had a tendency to ice up and essentially limit the visibility of a Sturmbock pilot to directly in front and directly above.
Combined with the weight penalty the advantages of the extra protection were not seen to worth the visibility and performance loss.
Many also removed the armor plates that were mounted to the fuselage too.
The cowling MGs were removed in an effort to offset the weight penalty of the extra metal but even then, when faced with marauding P-51s, the A8 pilots often ditched as much as they could in order to lighten up.
Serenity, if you're looking for a book on this Osprey's 'Luftwaffe Sturmgruppen' by John Weal is a delightful read. Easy read, great photos, good information.
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I've successfully completed my studies, so now I return to the world of full-time work and having some free time! :banana:
I have resumed work on this Fw 190 skin and should have it done shortly.
I haven't really felt the itch to play too much... I think I'm going to need to upgrade my machine to play with level of graphics that I was used to anyway... so in the mean time... I'll be resuming work on the skins.
I want to revisit my 109K4 skins, I've already submitted a different material file for Yellow 1 (the current file over-exposes the colours a la NrRaven's skins)
(http://www.netaces.org/skins/109k4/skin1.jpg)
And I'm not really happy with this one either:
(http://www.netaces.org/skins/109k4/skin14.jpg)
So I'll have my hands full with these before I move onto the Ta 152 I've also begun work on.
:salute