Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Stryker on August 27, 2009, 07:29:55 PM
-
I have a request, ive come across a B-25H called "Powerhouse" (noted in my previous post about the noseart)
but this is a formal request for one of the "few" b25h skinners out there to skin powerhouse for me
heres a link ive found that has quite a bit of information on the plane and its captain
http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/roy_powerhouse.html
-Gambit :salute
-
Its a nice noseart Stryker, but without a tail number for the aircraft it was applied to there isn't enough info to make a skin of it.
-
There were several tail numbers in there towards the bottom....
Admittedly they were best guesses by the author tho.
-
B-25H "Powerhouse" tail number 43-4498
-Gambit :salute
-
B-25H "Powerhouse" tail number 43-4498
-Gambit :salute
No that is Dutch.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/659c5dc2ee.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
-
No that is Dutch.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/659c5dc2ee.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
look at that tail number again lyric.. Dutch is "34"-4498
Powerhouse is "43"-4498..
-Gambit :salute
-
look at that tail number again lyric.. Dutch is "34"-4498
Powerhouse is "43"-4498..
-Gambit :salute
Sorry no. Tail numbers don't list the decade on the actual aircraft in most cases so the first digit 4 would represent the fourties then they also don't show the dash on the aircraft. The second number is 3 that would be the year of the decade so 1943 is the year of this aircrafts manufacturing date. So in this case Dutch is 43-4498. They abbreviate the number on the plane so all you see on Dutch is 34498 you added a # 4 by mistake.
-
bump bump
still searching for a good info depo on powerhouse, got to see this b25 in the game.. i'd never stop flyin it
-
STILL lookin... if anyone wants to help find info on this plane i'd greatly appreciate it, maybe a lost cause.. but for H flyers like myself it feels worth it. think it'd be a popular skin in the game
-
You should ask Dan/GuppyJr. he's our resident military historian detective, if it can be found, he'll find it.
ack-ack
-
STILL lookin... if anyone wants to help find info on this plane I'd greatly appreciate it, maybe a lost cause.. but for H flyers like myself it feels worth it. think it'd be a popular skin in the game
The simplest & best way to find this out to me is in the photo of Dutch.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_roy2.jpg)
Now based off the info the nephew collected about his uncle he has done his home work but has hit a brick wall.
http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/roy_powerhouse.html http://forum.armyairforces.com/Update-on-the-B25-Powerhouse-m104947.aspx
I think based off what I can ascertain from his web page the pictures of Powerhouse came from his cousins. So the original photo of Dutch above is from a fellow crew member Donald C Robertson who left them to his son. I have tried to blow this picture up larger & it is just to messy to get a read of the tail number in the back ground.
So you need to try & get the original photo or even better the negative & see if you can get a clearer photo of the plane in the back ground & I think Mr Robertson JR has the answer to finding the tail # to Powerhouse.
How do I come to this conclusion? Well here we go.
(PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT A PHOTO SHOP KIND OF GUY SO YOU MAY HAVE TO SAVE THESE PHOTOS & PLAY WITH THEM TO SEE WHAT I AM SEEING)
If you note in this first picture in the back ground you can see a small tent & you can see the canvas & tent polls as well as the rope coming off the poles most likely pegged in to the ground.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_roy2a.jpg)
Now in this photo note the forked tree & what looks like materials of some kind tool boxes maybe? & possibly a kneeling mechanic as well as one sitting besides him under the aircraft near the rear ladder of the plane. Now take a look at the right lower engine cowling it is not there & also there seems to be an access panel removed to the engine nacelle. Clearly this aircraft is being worked on.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_roy2b-1.jpg)
OK now lets look at one of the close up pictures of Dutch.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_crew2b.jpg)
Now if you look to the left you can see the same forked tree with the tail of a B25 in the back ground. Shame the fellow in the white hat with the cigar is not a foot or so to the right as he is hiding your tail number. Now look at this picture of the lower right side of the above photo looking over the top of the right wheel of the plane.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_crew2bc.jpg)
In my opinion that is the canvas of the tent as well as its tent pole & supporting equipment from the first photo.
So if I am correct these two photos were taken at about the same time but from two differant positions by the same photographer on the same day. The fact that the same tree and two B25's & a tent as well as two of the same people in the same clothes all in two differant photos is just to coincidental.
Now there is a third picture of Dutch. Not a lot to go on other than similar trees in the back ground same man in all four pictures & the sun is out. Where in the other three it must have been overcast at the time as there is not much in the way of shadows.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_roy1.jpg)
OK so now lets get to Powerhouse & how I think this all ties in.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/roy3.jpg)
As you can see the trees in the back ground look some what the same also there appears to be tool boxes & equipment under the plane again clearly some one is working on this plane as in the first photo of Dutch. Now in the first photo you can see the canvas tarps are on the top turret as well as the cockpit area of the plane. Not much point in them being there if you want a picture of some one sitting in the cockpit with it's cool nose art right?
Now to me this is the clincher :aok on the ground notice the square shaped material with a round like curve to it.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/roy3-1.jpg)
I think that is the access panel to the right engine nacelle of the plane in the back ground of Dutch in the first photo.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_roy2b-1.jpg)
So in conclusion I believe all these photos were taken at the same time by the same photographer & if that little bit of skin is the access panel it is just to much evidence to be coincidental & therefore I think you have a picture complete of Powerhouse. All you need is a better photo to get that tail #.
Let the debate begin. :bolt:
-
Awesome piece of deduction Lyric1.....CSI Aces High. :D
-
:lol I guess I missed my calling in becoming a machinist huh Greebo?
Just wanted to add these two picture of the right side of two B25J's from the local airport here in Urbana Ohio I took a few years back. The panel looks about the same size as that one on the ground?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000_3637.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000_3639.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000_3635.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000_3640.jpg)
In this last photo you can see they have both panels off to access the engine nacelle.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000_3809.jpg)
-
Didn't get it done in time from the previous edit :furious zoomed up this pic. Only the panel in question is removed. Also in the Powerhouse photo I zoomed up the panel on the ground to see what is sitting on it I think it is steel tubing with couplings on the end of it.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/s.jpg)
-
Ok...I was just looking at this photo in PSP...it almost looks like a tail number of 5544, or 2544 (those are only the last four digits of it, and a bit of a guess).
-
The simplest & best way to find this out to me is in the photo of Dutch.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_roy2.jpg)
Now based off the info the nephew collected about his uncle he has done his home work but has hit a brick wall.
http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/roy_powerhouse.html http://forum.armyairforces.com/Update-on-the-B25-Powerhouse-m104947.aspx
I think based off what I can ascertain from his web page the pictures of Powerhouse came from his cousins. So the original photo of Dutch above is from a fellow crew member Donald C Robertson who left them to his son. I have tried to blow this picture up larger & it is just to messy to get a read of the tail number in the back ground.
So you need to try & get the original photo or even better the negative & see if you can get a clearer photo of the plane in the back ground & I think Mr Robertson JR has the answer to finding the tail # to Powerhouse.
How do I come to this conclusion? Well here we go.
(PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT A PHOTO SHOP KIND OF GUY SO YOU MAY HAVE TO SAVE THESE PHOTOS & PLAY WITH THEM TO SEE WHAT I AM SEEING)
If you note in this first picture in the back ground you can see a small tent & you can see the canvas & tent polls as well as the rope coming off the poles most likely pegged in to the ground.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_roy2a.jpg)
Now in this photo note the forked tree & what looks like materials of some kind tool boxes maybe? & possibly a kneeling mechanic as well as one sitting besides him under the aircraft near the rear ladder of the plane. Now take a look at the right lower engine cowling it is not there & also there seems to be an access panel removed to the engine nacelle. Clearly this aircraft is being worked on.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_roy2b-1.jpg)
OK now lets look at one of the close up pictures of Dutch.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_crew2b.jpg)
Now if you look to the left you can see the same forked tree with the tail of a B25 in the back ground. Shame the fellow in the white hat with the cigar is not a foot or so to the right as he is hiding your tail number. Now look at this picture of the lower right side of the above photo looking over the top of the right wheel of the plane.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_crew2bc.jpg)
In my opinion that is the canvas of the tent as well as its tent pole & supporting equipment from the first photo.
So if I am correct these two photos were taken at about the same time but from two differant positions by the same photographer on the same day. The fact that the same tree and two B25's & a tent as well as two of the same people in the same clothes all in two differant photos is just to coincidental.
Now there is a third picture of Dutch. Not a lot to go on other than similar trees in the back ground same man in all four pictures & the sun is out. Where in the other three it must have been overcast at the time as there is not much in the way of shadows.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_roy1.jpg)
OK so now lets get to Powerhouse & how I think this all ties in.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/roy3.jpg)
As you can see the trees in the back ground look some what the same also there appears to be tool boxes & equipment under the plane again clearly some one is working on this plane as in the first photo of Dutch. Now in the first photo you can see the canvas tarps are on the top turret as well as the cockpit area of the plane. Not much point in them being there if you want a picture of some one sitting in the cockpit with it's cool nose art right?
Now to me this is the clincher :aok on the ground notice the square shaped material with a round like curve to it.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/roy3-1.jpg)
I think that is the access panel to the right engine nacelle of the plane in the back ground of Dutch in the first photo.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_roy2b-1.jpg)
So in conclusion I believe all these photos were taken at the same time by the same photographer & if that little bit of skin is the access panel it is just to much evidence to be coincidental & therefore I think you have a picture complete of Powerhouse. All you need is a better photo to get that tail #.
Let the debate begin. :bolt:
I did the same thing trying to zoom sharpen sharpen sharpen the tail on the background plane last night. I think I can make out the last 4 numbers 2549. I think you are correct in you deductions and the times the pictures were taken. 2549 does not match up on the list of planes the fellow lists though.
Ok...I was just looking at this photo in PSP...it almost looks like a tail number of 5544, or 2544 (those are only the last four digits of it, and a bit of a guess).
and a good guess I think, very similar to what I got.
-
From his website, maybe 545 then? That's the closest to both of our guesses.
Also, a few things about these pictures of 'Dutch' and 'Powerhouse':
http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/roy3.jpg (http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/roy3.jpg)
http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/dutch_roy1.jpg (http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/dutch_roy1.jpg)
Does anyone else think the gun barrels in the picture of 'Powerhouse' look a little strange? Also, the landing gear doors appear to be completely different sizes. Both images seem to be taken from a similar perspective, and even though the 'Powerhouse' one is rather washed out I still think the doors are different. This is also shown by this picture of 'Dutch':
http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/dutch_roy2.jpg (http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/dutch_roy2.jpg)
Does anyone know why this is?
-
Sent this link off to Mr Anderson who in turn forwarded it on to Mr Robertson Jr & he will go back through the photos to see what they may or may not have. We should hear something back in a week or two. :aok
Another pic of Dutch I got off the web Via Mr Andersons web site.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutch_crew3.jpg)
-
From his website, maybe 545 then? That's the closest to both of our guesses.
Also, a few things about these pictures of 'Dutch' and 'Powerhouse':
http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/roy3.jpg (http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/roy3.jpg)
http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/dutch_roy1.jpg (http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/dutch_roy1.jpg)
Does anyone else think the gun barrels in the picture of 'Powerhouse' look a little strange? Also, the landing gear doors appear to be completely different sizes. Both images seem to be taken from a similar perspective, and even though the 'Powerhouse' one is rather washed out I still think the doors are different. This is also shown by this picture of 'Dutch':
http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/dutch_roy2.jpg (http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/dutch_roy2.jpg)
Does anyone know why this is?
The first number of the plane in the back ground(if formatted the same as Dutch)could only be a three or a four as that is the only years B25H's were made to the best of my knowledge. I would say it is a three seeing it is a sister ship to Dutch.
The strange guns on Powerhouse are sleeves to keep dirt out. If your talking about the nose door hatch? I think your right it looks differant smaller? I think that may be due to the fact the photographer is standing on something to get him self level with the pilot so it looks smaller from that angle? Or he grew a couple of feet :lol. Now in the last picture of Dutch I don't see a wheel well door at all maybe off for repairs? Don't know.
-
Also, the landing gear doors appear to be completely different sizes. Both images seem to be taken from a similar perspective, and even though the 'Powerhouse' one is rather washed out I still think the doors are different. This is also shown by this picture of 'Dutch':
http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/dutch_roy2.jpg (http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/pics/dutch_roy2.jpg)
Does anyone know why this is?
This answers your question we are looking at two differant things one is the nose door fully open as in this picture
note the bubble for the tire to rest in when the door is closed. This is what we are seeing on Powerhouse.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000_3809.jpg)
Now the door is closed but as you can see the wheel is down & there is a small vertical skirt of metal near the landing gear. That is what we are seeing on Dutch.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000_3637.jpg)
I guess they close the door after landing to keep animals out. This is the same aircraft in both pictures as well so that is not an issue.
-
I was sent an email from Mr Anderson I cut & pasted it below.
Please reply with an email address that I can send two attachments to you, one 620 kbytes in size, and the other 208 kbytes. What I did was find the photograph that Don Robertson, Jr., had first sent me, which is an actual older 3x5 photograph (and not a "modern" print made by digital reproduction like at the corner drugstore), and rescanned just the area of the tail of the other plane at 1200 dpi. The two files I want to send you are BMP images, one in "true color" (although the original print is B&W) and the other is grayscale. Maybe you or your modeler friends can do something with Photoshop or another program to enhance one of these while we are waiting to hear more from Don Robertson, Jr. The middle digit, a 5, is clearly evident, but hard to tell the others without enhancement, which I'm not set to do.
Kevin Anderson
OK here are the two pictures.
Grey.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/airplane_tail_1200dpi_grayscale.jpg)
True.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/airplane_tail_1200dpi_truecolor.jpg)
With what little ability I have to enhance these pictures I feel confident of the first three digits.
Spotlight.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/22.jpg)
All I did on the next two was play with lighting and shadow plus zooming in & out to find the best look & then I added the numbers over the top of the plane Numbers until I found the best match. Then I just slid them down under the original numbers & saved them at that position. The spacing of the numbers is not quite the same because I think the rudder is kicked to one side a little to the vertical fin.
True.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/airplane_tail_1200dpi_truecolor1.jpg)
Grey.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/airplane_tail_1200dpi_grayscale1.jpg)
Any way that is what I have come up with so far the last digit looks like a 3 but I would not bet any money on it.
Well the rest of you take a stab at it see what you get.
-
I got an email from Mr Anderson & there is no other pictures that will help. So I think I will put this link in the Aircraft & vehicles next week when I get back to see if some one else may have some ideas as to what the tail # is.
I would like to see Mr Anderson find the answer to his quest more so than getting this skin in to the game so if any one has any other ideas as to how resolve this aircraft puzzle post it as any help would be great.
-
I got an email from Mr Anderson & there is no other pictures that will help. So I think I will put this link in the Aircraft & vehicles next week when I get back to see if some one else may have some ideas as to what the tail # is.
I would like to see Mr Anderson find the answer to his quest more so than getting this skin in to the game so if any one has any other ideas as to how resolve this aircraft puzzle post it as any help would be great.
Just a thought: We have three digits of a tail number, and I believe, a squadron we know. Therefore, can we find a list of the serial #s of B-25Hs produced, and see if we can track which numbers went to which squadron, and work at it from that direction? I don't know what resources are available for B-25s, but I know I have tracked B-17s in a similar fashion.
-
could it be a 00 at the end
-
Actually we can narrow it down to a handful of aircraft Mr Anderson has done a lot of research & at the beginning of this post is the link explaining why he is looking for answers on this aircraft & has some excellent info on the B25H in general.
You will need to read through all of this thread & its links to understand where it is at & how it has got to this point.
http://home.mchsi.com/~anderson.kevin/roy_powerhouse.html
-
I might be able to help you if you have a serial number
-
I might be able to help you if you have a serial number
Serial number other than the tail number?
-
Serial number other than the tail number?
Yes, like a manufactoring serial number.
-
Yes, like a manufactoring serial number.
I may be wrong but I think the tail number is the serial number for the plane. Now individual parts would have a serial number identification plate or engraving of some type on them but I am not sure such a thing would exist for the plane as a whole?
Maybe some one else could help on that point.
-
Hey, try to look for pic of a B-25C nickname "patches" with the 321st BG.
-
Hey, try to look for pic of a B-25C nickname "patches" with the 321st BG.
HAHA never thought of that, We think too muc out of the box sometimes i think...im looking now
-
What branch of the military was "POWERHOUSE" in?? Im guessing Air force but i just want to confirm.
-
What branch of the military was "POWERHOUSE" in?? Im guessing Air force but i just want to confirm.
Jolly I think you need to go to the start of the thread & read it from the beginning. :aok It was with the Fifth Airforce.
-
ok thank you
-
HAHA never thought of that, We think too muc out of the box sometimes i think...im looking now
for a B-25 that "supposedly" is well know, it is sure hard to find anything about it but a short paragraph on it.
-
Found this picture on line at a web site about B-29's,clearly wrong I sent it on to the nephew who has never seen it before. See AHII bringing people together on family's lost history :aok
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/b25powerhouse.jpg)
-
Did you ever have any luck with the tail number of that one B-25?
-
Did you ever have any luck with the tail number of that one B-25?
No but the nephew has narrowed it down to three possibles based off of the numbers I found with my software from Kodak. I sent him a link from a forensics place that specialises in that sort of thing.
-
Another picture has emerged & it looks like the aircraft had a new paint job added towards wars end. From bare metal to what looks like OD/NG.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Powerhouse_aThirdPicture.jpg)
-
Frankly, striving to get the right number on the tail is nice, but it's a small detail when you have confirmation on all the other details being correct. IMO I say it's not wrong to skin Powerhouse using the tail code for Dutch.
You're getting a similar plane at the same time and same place, and you've done your best to get all the details right. If that one number is the ONLY thing keeping people from making the skin, I am of the much-though-out opinion (I have debated this internally several times before and always come out with the same answer) that the tail code just has to look right. 99% of people won't know it's wrong, and those that do probably have read this thread and will understand. It's not like you're picking random numbers for it. You're taking the number from one of the other planes it flew with.
-
Frankly, striving to get the right number on the tail is nice, but it's a small detail when you have confirmation on all the other details being correct. IMO I say it's not wrong to skin Powerhouse using the tail code for Dutch.
You're getting a similar plane at the same time and same place, and you've done your best to get all the details right. If that one number is the ONLY thing keeping people from making the skin, I am of the much-though-out opinion (I have debated this internally several times before and always come out with the same answer) that the tail code just has to look right. 99% of people won't know it's wrong, and those that do probably have read this thread and will understand. It's not like you're picking random numbers for it. You're taking the number from one of the other planes it flew with.
Well it has been narrowed down to three possibility's based off the assumption that the aircraft in the background of Dutch is Powerhouse. It was only possible to get a portion of the tail numbers & with what was legible it only left three possabilities. So it's up to you skinners if near enough is good enough on this one.
-
Well some one figured out the tail number. You can pick bare metal or OD green as well. :rock
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Mitchell%20B-25H/T2eC16VHJGkE9no8hl2BRYD-D0i6w60_57_zpsb0223615.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Mitchell%20B-25H/T2eC16VHJGkE9no8hl2BRYD-D0i6w60_57_zpsb0223615.jpg.html)
http://www.kitsworld.co.uk/index.php?CATEGORY=6&SUB=3&THISPAGE=1&RADIOSORT=4&PICFILE=292&STKNR=292&STRH=3332&ORDN=2538&RNZ=411507
I got three of them right.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Mitchell%20B-25H/airplane_tail_1200dpi_grayscale1.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Mitchell%20B-25H/airplane_tail_1200dpi_grayscale1.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Mitchell%20B-25H/roy3.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Mitchell%20B-25H/roy3.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Mitchell%20B-25H/Powerhouse_aThirdPicture.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Mitchell%20B-25H/Powerhouse_aThirdPicture.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Mitchell%20B-25H/b25powerhouse.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Mitchell%20B-25H/b25powerhouse.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Mitchell%20B-25H/powerhouse_artwork75_copyright_zpsf85ff45e.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Mitchell%20B-25H/powerhouse_artwork75_copyright_zpsf85ff45e.jpg.html)
-
Nice find!!