Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Phil on January 18, 2010, 12:15:37 PM
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Gents....
Met an acquaintance today and told him that I wasn't flying R/C WWII birds because of ACES HIGH :rock
He replied: " Ya should try Il2 ! "
My responce was: "lots of players in AH have been/ were playing IL2. They mentioned many good points about the graphics BUT the overall play was better in ACES HIGH. "
Now I couldn't provide him with more details because I'm only reliying on hearsay.... I havent played IL2 and have no intentions.
Now I gave him the web site etc and he will look into it. He will be coming to my residence and watch me in action :aok
I told him to READ the forum before jumping in and using the free trial period.
I have used the "search" tab and couldn't find any thread that I want him to read about the PROS and CONS....
Any players out here that can briefly list the GOODs and BADs between the two ? (professional comments please !)
I don't want to TRASH any flight sim !!!!
Phil / OPP7755
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IL2 Flight model blows, graphics are good. You can fly a 190 and a A6M and they feel the same.
Aces High FM is awesome, graphics are great with the new update.
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Oh boy, here we go again...
IL2 Flight model blows, graphics are good. You can fly a 190 and a A6M and they feel the same.
I'll respectfully disagree here. When I fly AH after playing another flight sim, there is a way in which the aircraft feel the same, but that is because AH has a distinct feel. Il-2 also has a distinct feel, but after you've played it a bit, you laugh when people say the aircraft feel the same. AH has the riding on rails feeling, while Il-2 feels slippery (best analogy I can think of). Both have excellent flight models in my opinion, and I've played more than a dozen flight sims since the late '80s.
Secondly, with the latest Il-2 mods, e.g. HSFX, AH is still way behind in graphics, especially with clouds, fires, and optical effects.
I also think it's silly to compare the two sims too strictly because what they offer is so different. Il-2 does not have MMP, AH does. Many Il-2 servers offer historical matchups with semi-accurate maps (some with snow or desert), goals for each side to accomplish, etc.; AH offers big fictonal maps where almost anything goes.
Edit: I forgot to mention that gunnery is more difficult in Il-2, and that makes a big difference for gameplay. While it's no big woop to see someone land seven or eight kills in AH, I get excited over three or four (human opponents) in Il-2.
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just different FMs wise and i am not prepared to debate which is "better" ...
however ...
The biggest difference IMO is that AH is truly MMOL and lends itself to the kind of crazy huge numbers that allows us to represent what imo is the thing that makes WW2 unique in the history of Air Combat which is the sheer number of planes contesting the same airspace ...
there are good and bad aspects to this high number thing, but it is fun ...
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I havent played IL2 and have no intentions.
Why not? It's worth a try at such a bargain. Don't worry, AH will still love you. :P
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Phil,
since he plays IL2, let him go ahead and use his free trial period to make up his own mind......
he should adapt pretty quickly, if he has played IL2 for any length of time.........
tell him to check out the snapshots, or the SatKOTH coming up this weekend, or if he sticks around....point him toward ahevents.org and let him read up on the scenarios.... what other sim can ya have reenactments of WWII aerial battles with 500 to 700 participants?
I always find it funny about the "on rails" comments.......
I have heard that to be said about every flight sim since 1996...... all of them.......... it's just the fanboi syndrome :airplane: :D
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Few differences...
* IL2 Graphics are more cartooney in style some like it some dont (Im one of the later).
* IL2 clouds are much better
* IL2 has more detailed avoionics with cowl flaps and other stuff that is not implemented in AH2
* IL2 has a more detailed damage model.
* AH2s new cockpits are much nicer but old are worse
* AH2 has best view system in all sims. IL2 View system is head on stick (at least without TIR) which makes it lot worse.
* AH2 supports 500+ players per server IL2 is 64 max (or is it even just 32)
* AH2 has a better flight model.
* AH2 has built in coms.
* IL2 is not supported by the original developers.
* AH2 has full development support.
Tex
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Oh boy, here we go again...
I'll respectfully disagree here. When I fly AH after playing another flight sim, there is a way in which the aircraft feel the same, but that is because AH has a distinct feel. Il-2 also has a distinct feel, but after you've played it a bit, you laugh when people say the aircraft feel the same. AH has the riding on rails feeling, while Il-2 feels slippery (best analogy I can think of). Both have excellent flight models in my opinion, and I've played more than a dozen flight sims since the late '80s.
Secondly, with the latest Il-2 mods, e.g. HSFX, AH is still way behind in graphics, especially with clouds, fires, and optical effects.
I also think it's silly to compare the two sims too strictly because what they offer is so different. Il-2 does not have MMP, AH does. Many Il-2 servers offer historical matchups with semi-accurate maps (some with snow or desert), goals for each side to accomplish, etc.; AH offers big fictonal maps where almost anything goes.
Edit: I forgot to mention that gunnery is more difficult in Il-2, and that makes a big difference for gameplay. While it's no big woop to see someone land seven or eight kills in AH, I get excited over three or four (human opponents) in Il-2.
Am only speaking from what I've read from others in the past. Don't have the game and don't really want it.
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coming from WB and thinking i would hate the view system in AH which sounded overly complicated and clumsy ...
i must say i like it much better than i thought i would ...
i don't think it is the totally perfect solution but it does offset the choice to use of opaque bars pretty well ...
kudos to HTC for a workable solution to the dilemma of the cyclops vs stereo vision and cockpit bars reality debate ...
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* IL2 Graphics are more cartooney in style some like it some dont (Im one of the later).
You have reasonable opinions, but I'm a little confused about this one.
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It really comes down to personal preference.
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Use different sims to fill different voids. Don't just limit yourself to one. I have a list of sims I fly, dependent on what I feel like doing.
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I enjoy Il-2 to fill that void that AvA ought to fill in Aces High, but doesn't.
I totally agree with the flies on rails vs. slippery comments about FM's. I'm not sure which is more "right".
I strongly prefer Il-2's apparent damage model.
I'm not so sure I'd catagorize Il-2's graphics as better than AH's anymore; not since the latest updates. Maybe the clouds are better in Il-2, but the terrain isn't. I haven't seen this HFX thing that Anax. refers to.
Il-2 is practically free now. No reason not to give it a go just to check it out.
I've never flown it online though. I'd like to try that sometime.
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I'll never purchase IL2. I enjoy the "small company" feel to HTC. They take care of any "messes" that occasionally happen and ENCOURAGE feedback on Bugs, etc.
It'll be 8 years in April and I don't plan on leaving anytime soon.
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I have one reason you will not see me in the IL-2 servers. "The nicest guy in IL-2" just doesn't sound right. :D
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Overall world war 2 air combatness:
IL-2 = 6/10
AH2 = 9/10
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For me, a major element is being able to fly against a lot of other humans (I have no desire to fly offline or against AI or against just a handful of other pilots) and to fly in scenarios (which, for me, provides a whole new dimension to online flying and is my main hobby).
Aces High is by far the leader in those things.
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Spikes....I would love to answer you but I can't concentrate after reading any post you make....please send my regards to your cosmetic surgeon and get a neurology referral for me from him as I only become "fixated" and neanderathal-like when seeing your avatar.
Best wishes and don't go changin for me,
Changeup
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Am only speaking from what I've read from others in the past. Don't have the game and don't really want it.
That really takes the cake spikes. You speak negatively about one of the classic flight sims of the decade without having tried it?
Use different sims to fill different voids. Don't just limit yourself to one. I have a list of sims I fly, dependent on what I feel like doing.
Stated perfectly.
I'm not so sure I'd catagorize Il-2's graphics as better than AH's anymore; not since the latest updates. Maybe the clouds are better in Il-2, but the terrain isn't. I haven't seen this HFX thing that Anax. refers to.
I highly recommend HSFX. It will drastically change your experience. For one, you can fly over a beautiful channel terrain, complete with London and the cliffs of Dover. Two, the update to clouds and other textures is stunning. There's also a boatload of new maps and terrains where important battles of the war took place, with snow, sand, etc.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4040/4285445613_5cef27f49d_o.png)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/4286187116_e19177aab7_o.png)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2723/4286187296_f91ebdbded_o.png)
...and an example of the new explosion textures:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/0201201019-51-20.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/0201201019-51-21.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/0201201019-51-22.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/0201201019-51-24.jpg)
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Wow, that IS nice! I'll have to google that and figure it all out.
I totally understand why folks don't "do" Il-2. If you fly AH alot and it fills your flight sim fix then that's great.
I fly AH when I'm looking for that type of experience. Sometimes it's fun to go up and dogfight in the MA. Sometimes I'm looking for something different. The other night I was totally craving getting in an SBD with about 10 other dudes with a fighter escort of F4F's and go hunting that CV east of C111. Not likely to happen in AH2. But I can fire up Il-2 and fly a "mission" in my Navy plane against Japanese planes and it's a different experience.
I have a whole HD of flight sims- just about any that are/were worth mention. Some get more play than others. There's nothing wrong with being a well-rounded simmer.
Doesn't really answer the OP's question, but I don't see why one has to be anti-Il-2 or anti-AH. It's ok to like more than one sim, right?
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Just got IL-2 1946..Graphics are amazing but the models need some updates. Some planes arnt even realistic ex: how can a B-29 be in a german skin? :headscratch: That i dont get but otherwise the game is good but not as good as AH.
:salute
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Well because the Germans bombed pearl harbor, and near the end of the war they captured a B29.
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The view system in AH is so much better that it is kind of funny.
The feel of taking off in a 109 from a small grass strip with a cross wind in IL2 is so much better its funny.
Its almost like they are different games that should be of interest to anyone that has an interest in their common topic....
Get the new mods for Il2, like the island of Malta, get all the skins to play a Spit V climbing up to a formation of inbound 88s and Machis.
It really is a fantastic immersive experience.
And you get to play both!
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Well because the Germans bombed pearl harbor, and near the end of the war they captured a B29.
Yep and the Japs captured France.
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Well because the Germans bombed pearl harbor, and near the end of the war they captured a B29.
The turning point was when the Apaches defeated them at Little Bighorn. Once pushed back past Las Vegas, the germanese lost so much income they were unable to continue at their prior strength. Many went on strike when paychecks started to bounce. The Apache push was slowed by manned kamikazee whales but in the end the horseless dugouts prevailed.
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The feel of taking off in a 109 from a small grass strip with a cross wind in IL2 is so much better its funny.
Aces High has many options for winds and has a LOT of potential for terrains. However building terrains for Aces High is kind of unrewarding because it typically is rendered obsolete after major updates (2.14, 2.06, etc).
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There are differences in the way the different aircraft handle, but there's still a sense of genericness. I haven't played any mods, but ALL aircraft in the vanilla game have the same flap positions: Up, Combat, Takeoff, Landing regardless of what the historical planes had. This leads to the feeling of many aircraft being modeled the same. Engine overheats are overmodeled. I like that they tried to make the gauges more accurate, however some aircraft are also missing a few needles (the F4U's airspeed indicator, for example, had separate needles for both the inner and outer tracks, whereas in Il-2 you have one needle, making gauging your airspeed difficult). I don't like how you hear the radio chatter for course headings and altitudes for ALL flights in the area, not just your own. Confusing as hell when your orders are to head 240 at an altitude of 10,000ft, when the radio is blaring "Heading 159, Altitude 1." Which oh yeah, I wish that the radio cues for altitude matched your instruments. It's GREAT that aircraft with metric instrumentation use metric, while aircraft with Imperial units use that system. Too bad the audio cues are all in metric (which the resulting confusing is exactly the reason HTC standardized measurements to Imperial for all planes).
Assigning stick axes is awkward (honestly, why should you be able to MAP an axis inverted, rather than map an axis and then have a separate check box to reverse it which is 1000x's more intuitive?) and I always feel like some of my analog controls over-compensate. I've given up on trying to set my RPMs for cruise. Even with the axis fully calibrated and working normally,adjusting it even a little bit causes my RPMs to fall like a rock.
That's not to say it's all bad. Even without mods Il-2 is gorgeous. The aircraft modeling is beautiful, and there's nothing more breathtaking than soaring 15,000ft over the South Pacific with a CAVU sky. I like the added complexity of the engine management (set supercharger, fuel mixture, magnetos, etc) and the more robust damage modeling (although sometimes it seems a bit flaky how aircraft respond to damage). I like that in planes like the F4F you need to literally crank your gear up and down. Oh, and do NOT suddenly slam your throttle to firewall in the Corsair at low altitude if you're stalling out on landing approach (although beyond that, the Corsair flies almost exactly as she does in AH2, which makes me very happy. Just add in the more difficult gunnery and "slippery" controls. As Gavagai said, in Il-2 your nose is a LOT less stable than in AH. Much slewing around with even a little control input).
I'd play it more often if I just wanted a quick fix, but the game has a nasty tendency of crashing on me after playing for a bit.
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I find it funny when folks claim the IL2 flight model is the one with "unique" qualities for each plane. Clearly every plane has the same stall, spin, and mush behavior. The airspeed at which these happen might vary slightly from plane to plane, but they all fly exactly the same when you get to that point.
Even the P-38s (no torque) had torque and spins for quite a while before Oleg got off his butt and hard-coded a fix for it (meaning he faked the results, rather than coded in the real effect).
Taking off in IL2 I never had a problem ever. Even with no engine and serious battle damage you can land a plane missing half its parts, most of a wing, a stabilizer, and roll to a safe stop without a sweat.
In AH I crashed repeatedly when I first started the game up and tried to take off. I moved in from WB, as well, which was fairly close to AH1. Flying in AH induces stalls, snap stalls, sudden wing drops, side skids, accelerated stalls, and many other things, on top of which each plane has different characteristics as to when it will snap stall or dip. 190 wings will snap before they'll mush, for example. You get a real sense for when a plane is bleeding E vs retaining E.
In IL2, the most you get is mush stalls and some accelerated stalls (more like accelerated mushes). I can't see how you claim AH is on rails when IL2 is nearly identical (thus IMO more to the definition of "on rails" ??). The only real difference are the way the game cues in stalls (the sounds and the head shake from vibrations). I think IL2 captured the sound better than AH's stall horn. But that's just trickery, not an actual flight model. It's just the sounds. Look past that and you won't be impressed.
So please define "on rails" when you say AH flies on rails. I've described how they fly in my own words, an why I feel that is inaccurate. I'd like to see if it's just the phrase "on rails" itself that's putting me off, or what.
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The turning point was when the Apaches defeated them at Little Bighorn. Once pushed back past Las Vegas, the germanese lost so much income they were unable to continue at their prior strength. Many went on strike when paychecks started to bounce. The Apache push was slowed by manned kamikazee whales but in the end the horseless dugouts prevailed.
This video illustrates the differences best I believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skl1A21XnqY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skl1A21XnqY)
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Dang, I hate it when I agree with Krusty. ;) :D
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Dang, I hate it when I agree with Krusty. ;) :D
Funny, I didn't even read his post but I read all of the others in this thread. ;)
FYI, as for the B-29, in Il-2 any aircraft can be given the markings of any country. So you can have a Spit with German crosses, or a P-51 with Japanese meatballs, etc. It's not actually a feature of the aircraft skins themselves.
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I enjoy the "small company" feel to HTC. They take care of any "messes" that occasionally happen and ENCOURAGE feedback on Bugs, etc.
+1
Further, we have a great Air Racing League, Massive Squad Op Night, Snapshots, Historic Scenarios, and A WWI ARENA COMING!!!
AH2 = :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
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I definitely agree with Krusty on the stall behavior. In Aces High I'll be in a maneuver and suddenly one wing starts to drop without much warning (particularly alarming when you're in a right-hand turn and all the sudden the plane is snapping over to the left). I've never experienced this in Il-2. The plane just sort of slowly falls off to one side (as much as some people say the Corsair's stall is too docile in Aces High, I HAVE spun her a number of times. I've NEVER spun a Corsair in Il-2, and I fly her the same in both games). In fact, I've never even been able to snap-roll in Il-2, in any aircraft. As soon as I try the plane's nose sort of pitches up slightly for a moment and drops.
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Sax, you and I must be playing different games. That's all I can say to explain it.
What version are you describing?
Edit: I've watched my son spin just about every aircraft in Il-2. :lol
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Definetley show your friend all the organized events we have online.
I've also heard someone complain that there isn't any reason to fly above like 7k in IL2, which sounds like a shame and a limitation compared to AH..
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Dang, I hate it when I agree with Krusty. ;) :D
You can be shot for that FYI ;)
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You can be shot for that FYI ;)
Yipe!!! :bolt:
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Thanks for the input guys !
I will point out this thread for him to read...
I'm anxious to see what will be his responces/comments
Thanks again !
:salute
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I find it funny when folks claim the IL2 flight model is the one with "unique" qualities for each plane. Clearly every plane has the same stall, spin, and mush behavior. The airspeed at which these happen might vary slightly from plane to plane, but they all fly exactly the same when you get to that point.
Even the P-38s (no torque) had torque and spins for quite a while before Oleg got off his butt and hard-coded a fix for it (meaning he faked the results, rather than coded in the real effect).
Taking off in IL2 I never had a problem ever. Even with no engine and serious battle damage you can land a plane missing half its parts, most of a wing, a stabilizer, and roll to a safe stop without a sweat.
In AH I crashed repeatedly when I first started the game up and tried to take off. I moved in from WB, as well, which was fairly close to AH1. Flying in AH induces stalls, snap stalls, sudden wing drops, side skids, accelerated stalls, and many other things, on top of which each plane has different characteristics as to when it will snap stall or dip. 190 wings will snap before they'll mush, for example. You get a real sense for when a plane is bleeding E vs retaining E.
In IL2, the most you get is mush stalls and some accelerated stalls (more like accelerated mushes). I can't see how you claim AH is on rails when IL2 is nearly identical (thus IMO more to the definition of "on rails" ??). The only real difference are the way the game cues in stalls (the sounds and the head shake from vibrations). I think IL2 captured the sound better than AH's stall horn. But that's just trickery, not an actual flight model. It's just the sounds. Look past that and you won't be impressed.
So please define "on rails" when you say AH flies on rails. I've described how they fly in my own words, an why I feel that is inaccurate. I'd like to see if it's just the phrase "on rails" itself that's putting me off, or what.
Wow... I actually agree with you this one... :banana:
Got the flight model spot on... :aok I've always said it was mushy.. Slippery just doesn't define it.. Mushy is a lot more accurate..
I also don't like the way IL2 handles the sound portion of the game.. Even with the best soundpacks available, the sound engine itself doesn't
do a good sound of setting things up.. For instance, the higher pitched engine sounds are much too high and the lower pitch engine sounds are much too low..
You can actually hear steps in between pitch as well.. Not the smooth increase in rpm you hear in AH..
It doesn't do a good job at reproducing the doppler effect either..
My likes of the game are definitely the eye candy.. Some of the newer mods available almost change the look of the game entirely..
I like that the lead computing gunsight option(only available on historical aircraft) is actually the gunsight, not some X on the screen..
But again, even gunnery feels mushy.. It's just mushy.. All of it.. Except the graphics.. Those are a few steps ahead of AH..
But I think AH is better all around..
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Aces High has the best package by far and development support.
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Sax, you and I must be playing different games. That's all I can say to explain it.
What version are you describing?
Edit: I've watched my son spin just about every aircraft in Il-2. :lol
4.08m.
As I said, I even TRIED by executing a snap-roll (in an F4U, which should snap-roll like freakin' crazy). The thing just wouldn't kick over. She kind of mushed a bit, then nothing.
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coming from WB and thinking i would hate the view system in AH which sounded overly complicated and clumsy ...
i must say i like it much better than i thought i would ...
i don't think it is the totally perfect solution but it does offset the choice to use of opaque bars pretty well ...
kudos to HTC for a workable solution to the dilemma of the cyclops vs stereo vision and cockpit bars reality debate ...
Yeah, I still think letting you see the icon after the plane dot passes behind a frame might not be a bad idea. It gets annoying, especially in the 190. Unfortunately, Il2 does even worse things to the 190's forward view.
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Problems with Il2:
1. The viewing system is the worst. The snap-views are awkward, the "head" moves slowly, and you basically don't have rearward views. Fly an A-20 in AHII, don't use F3 or gunner view. That is about how much awareness of your six you can have in Il2 in *any* plane. TIR results in a great improvement, however, who wants a game that forces them to buy that piece of equipment?
2. I find the nose of the planes unstable and bouncy no matter what I do with trim and joystick adjustments.
3. Oleg has a beef with .50 cals apparently. The .50s are about as effective as the .30s in Il2. Its ridiculous. You can hose down Ki-43s and watch them fly on unharmed. OTOH, you DO get to shoot at a Ki-43...
4. The engine modeling is wonky. Let me put it this way...a P&W R-2800 ain't gonna fail after 15 minutes of balls-to-the-wall. Period. Having it do so is unrealistic. Hitech's solution is technically speaking, also "unrealistic"...limiting WEP usage to book limits, shutting it off automatically. Realistic engine modeling OTOH would effectively mean unlimited WEP for most powerplants. Virtual pile-its ain't concerned with the maintanence schedules.
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Taking off in IL2 I never had a problem ever. Even with no engine and serious battle damage you can land a plane missing half its parts, most of a wing, a stabilizer, and roll to a safe stop without a sweat.
Does anybody really need to post pics of shot-to-hell SBDs missing half a wing coming in to safe landings in AH?
In AH I crashed repeatedly when I first started the game up and tried to take off. I moved in from WB, as well, which was fairly close to AH1. Flying in AH induces stalls, snap stalls, sudden wing drops, side skids, accelerated stalls, and many other things, on top of which each plane has different characteristics as to when it will snap stall or dip. 190 wings will snap before they'll mush, for example. You get a real sense for when a plane is bleeding E vs retaining E.
In IL2, the most you get is mush stalls and some accelerated stalls (more like accelerated mushes).
You, sir, are absolutely insane, or you're flying on baby difficulty, or perhaps your default stick settings are not giving you full control authority. I once ticked off my roomie because I erupted in a sudden blue streak of swearing so incensed and inspired it rivaled the eloquence of Homeric verse- all because I had ALMOST had a shot on a Zero in a high speed, hard turn right on the deck when my F4F Wildcat abruptly pushed a hair beyond her performance envelope and suffered a snap roll right into the #@^!*&$ waves. (My roomie had his prim Christian girlfriend over; but I've always maintained his irritability during that incident was due in part to other issues. :banana: )
As I said, I even TRIED by executing a snap-roll (in an F4U, which should snap-roll like freakin' crazy). The thing just wouldn't kick over. She kind of mushed a bit, then nothing.
I have to echo Anax here in saying that you're playing a completely different game. When I first decided to experiment with snap-rolls, I read up on how to do them, (stick all the way back and hard right or left rudder,) started IL-2, hauled back on the stick while giving it hard right rudder, and promptly got a snap roll. The stall behavior of the P-39 is especially nasty, vis a vis historical examples; the snap roll becomes a flat spin in short order and you're boned. The one thing I DON'T like about that is that eventually they figured out why they P-39 did the flat spin (improper weight balancing in the forward gun compartment,) so it vexes me that later P-39 models still do that.
The IL-2 flight model is superb, and you people trying to insist that it's extremely sub-par to AH just mystify me.
But IL-2 does piss me off sometimes:
Problems with Il2:
1. The viewing system is the worst. The snap-views are awkward, the "head" moves slowly, and you basically don't have rearward views.
THIS. TEN THOUSAND TIMES.
The "rear views" have you looking at an angle on the side you're looking back at- which irritates me immensely because even a pilot strapped in his seat should be able to rubberneck enough for a straight-back view of his six. Turning on snap-view solves the slow head problem, but the padlock system will murder you, because when enemies are near the centerline of your plane the view will start flipping out back and forth like you're spastic or something; which makes me auger in when I'm locked in the scissors. TIR is indeed required to get any use out of it.
2. I find the nose of the planes unstable and bouncy no matter what I do with trim and joystick adjustments.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one experiencing this. Some ships can be very stable right UNTIL you get ready to take your shot, at which point they start bouncing or fishtailing, making the shot with IL-2s realistic gunnery %^&@!# impossible.
3. Oleg has a beef with .50 cals apparently. The .50s are about as effective as the .30s in Il2. Its ridiculous. You can hose down Ki-43s and watch them fly on unharmed. OTOH, you DO get to shoot at a Ki-43...
My bugaboo is the KI-27 for some reason. For some reason, that HATEFUL ship is 1. seemingly impossible to get a steady bead on and 2. capable of soaking up way too much damage for an early war Japanese bird. I just hate it so much.
.50 caliber damage seems to be fine to me though. What I hate is that Russian aircraft are overmodeled, and the P-51 turns like a ruptured elephant on roller skates. (IL-2 shares ground with AH in this respect.) I am so fed up with this new "LOL MUSTANG CAN'T TURN" vibe going around with the sim developers. It makes me rage.
In short Oleg models the planes from the viewpoint of the russian's historical views of the planes named, with predictable results.
4. The engine modeling is wonky. Let me put it this way...a P&W R-2800 ain't gonna fail after 15 minutes of balls-to-the-wall. Period.
Did you open your radiator? :rofl
Having it do so is unrealistic. Hitech's solution is technically speaking, also "unrealistic"...limiting WEP usage to book limits, shutting it off automatically. Realistic engine modeling OTOH would effectively mean unlimited WEP for most powerplants.
Actually, "most" powerplants did use water- or water-methnohol- injection to increase engine power. The water supplies carried on board were finite.
Early war birds tended to have the "boost" option as "redlining the throttle," i.e. pushing it past the safe "military power" settings for an extra ten pounds of boost, and the accompanying power.
One last gripe about IL-2- I've noticed that for some reason it's detection and calibration of my stick is random. I start the game, and enter the hardware menu to look at the joystick readouts. Half the time my rudder or aerilons detected position is way the heck out there from it's actual position. I have to restart the game once or twice till it detects it properly. I think that has caused me lots of problems with aiming instability; once I caught on my gunnery issues declined quite a bit.
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It has been a long while since I had IL2 on my HD.The only thing IL2 beats AH in is it's prettier.The flight model isn't that good,but who am I to question the reality of a airplane when I have never flown one.You would think some of the fellas in AH have flown some of these ol warbirds,the way they inform us all whilst playing the game.Gunnery is much harder in IL2,but then I'm a poor shot in AH.In RL I'm a excellent shot,go figure.The online IL2 is a real cluster---- imho.AH is the best overall flight sim I've been involved with,but Air Warrior is my choice for the most fun,and best crowd.I didn't care for Warbirds or Fighter Ace.Your friend will like AH and hopefully he will stick around.
ID
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Did you open your radiator? :rofl
Before everyone jumps all over you for saying this about the R-2800, when you adjust your cowl flaps in Il-2 the system message still says "radiator."
As for views, I don't have track IR either. Using a hat switch for views in Il-2 is obviously inferior to AH. Like Demetrious says, padlock also sucks. The best option I've found is to use the mouse for views <gasp>. I upped the sensitivity and can look around very efficiently after practicing at it over the course of a week. It sounds crazy, but it works very well.
RoF has an interesting view system that's kind of a cross between AH and Il-2. You can adjust all of your view positions like AH, but you can't move your head 360 degrees. The speed at which the snap views move can be changed, which is very cool. I mentioned the similarity to AH in their forums, and Lefty admitted straight out that they studied the AH viewing system before implementing their own in RoF.
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.50 caliber damage seems to be fine to me though. What I hate is that Russian aircraft are overmodeled, and the P-51 turns like a ruptured elephant on roller skates. (IL-2 shares ground with AH in this respect.) I am so fed up with this new "LOL MUSTANG CAN'T TURN" vibe going around with the sim developers. It makes me rage.
Actually, I find the 'Stangs in Il2 can turn well enough to give 109Gs a fight, are actually more maneuverable than the 47s, etc. AHII is the only WWII sim I've ever run into where the P-51 was less maneuverable than the P-47.
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Agree with BnZs. It's a fantasy that Russian aircraft are overdone in Il-2. If anything, they are worse than in AH. Fire up Il-2, dive an La-7 to 450mph ias (no g load) and tell me what happens.
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Agree with BnZs. It's a fantasy that Russian aircraft are overdone in Il-2. If anything, they are worse than in AH. Fire up Il-2, dive an La-7 to 450mph (no g load) and tell me what happens.
Yes...I rather like the way high IAS has more effects on control stiffness and structural damage in Il2. 109s being able to pull blackout turns at 400mph IAS seems abit in AHII seems abit much.
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Demetrious,
That's EXACTLY how I tried to snap-roll in IL-2. Full hard back stick and simultaneous full left rudder (the Corsair snap-rolls better to the left due to the engine torque. At least in AH). All I ended up with was the nose kind of mushing around a bit.
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I hate to ask the silly question, but did you double check your difficulty settings?
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I would always customize my settings so that the flight model was not handicapped, but other things might be (i.e. no cockpit toggle, unlimited ammo, or no engine overheats, etc -- just to make the offline missions more bearable), and I experienced the same things.
It's not a settings issue.
EDIT: I've flown it on full difficulty as well.
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I hate to ask the silly question, but did you double check your difficulty settings?
The only difficulty setting I turned off is the engine overheats. Everything else should be set to full.
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Actually, I find the 'Stangs in Il2 can turn well enough to give 109Gs a fight, are actually more maneuverable than the 47s, etc. AHII is the only WWII sim I've ever run into where the P-51 was less maneuverable than the P-47.
No kidding?
I'm using Hardballs' benchmarking program as my primary reference (I've spent much more IL-2 hours in the P-40, because it forced me to learn how to manage E,) and it gives the P-51 horrible turn ratings...
...though, I wouldn't be surprised if that benchmark was taken with the P-51 at full fuel load. I used to rage at the horrible handling of the 51 until I realized I was starting in the air with 100% fuel load- including the fuselage auxiliary tank. :rofl If it can really turn good enough to compete with a Gustav... that'd be on par with it's historical performance, in fact. And since I'd been focusing on improving my E management skills, I never tried extended turning fights with it. Well, I know what I'm doing tonight- validating this theory!
Agree with BnZs. It's a fantasy that Russian aircraft are overdone in Il-2. If anything, they are worse than in AH. Fire up Il-2, dive an La-7 to 450mph ias (no g load) and tell me what happens.
I took about an hour to investigate this claim and I think you have a point- IL-2 performance of Russian planes seems to match Russian historical performance tests- not the tests, or estimates, of other nations. Perhaps it's just that other aircraft are under-modeled, but in my time in American birds I've never had any gripes that didn't match the historical grumbles, so perhaps I've been too hasty in my assessments there.
Also, I also use the mouse for views. I use a desktop-replacement laptop as my main computer, and since the touchpad is always under my thumb, it's actually a pretty quick way to adjust the view.
That's EXACTLY how I tried to snap-roll in IL-2. Full hard back stick and simultaneous full left rudder (the Corsair snap-rolls better to the left due to the engine torque. At least in AH). All I ended up with was the nose kind of mushing around a bit.
I'd put it down to your control settings, then. As I said, IL-2 can be iffy when it comes to stick input detection on start-up. It must be this, because I just went into IL-2 and performed a right-hand snap-roll in an F4U-D with no problem whatsoever. When I tried a left-handed snap-roll the nose came up a bit and then she broke to the right anyways as the engine torque had it's way (perhaps the direction of torque is mismodeled in either IL-2 or AH?) I'll post the video of this test tomorrow.
EDIT: Also whoever said that "all planes" have the "same flap settings" clearly spent less then ten minutes with the game. IL-2 just labels various flap settings with "take-off, landing," etc, instead of setting 1, 2, 3, or 20, 30, 40, degrees, etc. I'd rather have degrees but whatever. You take up a Spit, and you'll see the flap control toggle do just that- toggle. Flaps will go between "landing" (full setting) and "up."
EDIT THE SECOND: Hilariously enough, I cannot manage to induce a snap-roll in a Corsair in AH (stall limiter off.) I probably need to monkey with input scaling again...
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I like both IL2 and AH. While some say AH is best or IL2 is best, it really comes down to what you prefer in a sim.
Graphics: IL2 wins this one hands down. Someone posted that IL2's graphics were "cartoony"... are you kidding me???
Damage Model: I like IL2 a lot better here, when you get big holes in your aircraft it decreases lift and increases drag like it should.
Flight Model: As far as handing goes, I'm not sure which flight model is more realistic as I have never flown an actual aircraft. But, if you like the realism of adjusting your inflight controls, IL2 has it all with settings for radiator, magneto, supercharger, etc... (if you choose to fly full realism).
Multiplayer: Max player limit in IL2 is limited but some prefer the smaller online experience. You really get to know who you are flying with and against. Of course, some prefer the huge arenas that AH offers so I would say this is player preference. In IL2 you can also find a server to fit you preferences, if you like realism, there are full realism servers where icons are disabled and you have to actually navigate on the map; or you can go the other way and find servers with radar icons to other aircraft and invisible cockpits / unobstructed views.
Depth of Sim: AH wins here if you want to do more than just fly. Personally, I like the large arenas of AH where you have ground, naval, and air battles all going at the same time. Of course, some people just prefer a flight sim dedicated to flying/dogfighting only.
Support and development: IL2 can't touch HTC/AH here. When was the last time IL2 was updated by the developers?
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EDIT THE SECOND: Hilariously enough, I cannot manage to induce a snap-roll in a Corsair in AH (stall limiter off.) I probably need to monkey with input scaling again...
Sliders all the way to the top... she'll snap roll.
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Damage Model: I like IL2 a lot better here, when you get big holes in your aircraft it decreases lift and increases drag like it should.
AH is coming up with new dameage modeling with the WW1 arena,i have very high hopes for this.
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AH is coming up with new dameage modeling with the WW1 arena,i have very high hopes for this.
Yup, we are getting the new damage model integrated into AH, but I won't be expectign it to be done anyitme soon, that's a lot of planes/vehicles to rework/test/critique.
The constant support and development of this game really make it a great flight sim and/or MMO game.
So has your friend checked it out yet?
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Dose Il2 have a skin profile like AH?
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beside all FM ,DM and graphics, IL2 has no official online server. its all about in private hands, shoot down the server admin and you get kicked! thats my experienece
AH2 is an MMO game, IL2 not! AH2 has much more options, and tons of events to offer, therefore its worth the money
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Dose Il2 have a skin profile like AH?
http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads2&c=143
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I think both sims are equally as good in there own way. Just have fun with them. I think the riding on the rails feel people might be referring to in Aces High could be just combat trim. Disable it and give it a go and you'll feel much more slippery.
Krusty I actually get the opposite feel as you about landings. I feel it is much harder in Il2. Especially with damage. As far as take offs, in Aces High all I use sometimes is rudder and throttle while I'm playing with my clipboard map. I find it more difficult in Il2. There's a lot of real world pilots in forums that say it is much harder to fly in Il2 than in real life because of the stall characteristics.( None of this is meant to be a flame just different opinions.) I've actually successfully landed in both sims with no elevators!
Both sims are a blast. Just remember Il2 is old so it has it's limitations but it's still fun. Storm of War will be much better. :rock
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I'm as much of an AH fan as anyone, having been with HiTech, Pyro & the guys since LONG before there was an AH. That don't mean I can't enjoy another game though.
I see a LOT of IL-2 bashing going on in this thread by guys who've obviously never played the game, or at least, certainly not lately. Anyone who's a true combat flight sim fan owes it to themselves to give the game a try.
Cartoony graphics? That's just utter ridiculousness. Doesn't even deserve to be addressed further.
Lack of support? Really? I just reloaded IL-2 (and AH) after a bit of a layoff. I needed to go and download a major patch that'd been released not too long ago, 8+ years after the game debuted. And the next one is due out early this year. This official patch, for a game that you can get for like $15 these days, added multiple maps, several flyable aircraft, as well as other tweaks & additions. Sounds pretty well supported to me, particularly since this was just the latest in a long line of official patches. All released for a game that only earns its income once, unlike the constant funding of a MMO like AH where updates are not just expected but DEMANDED. And beyond that, there's a HUGE modding community. The HSFX mod that's been mentioned here is a one-stop mod that combines a bunch of graphical upgrades, AI tweaks, lets you fly some of the planes which were AI-only, adds catapults to the CV's that had them, and a TON of other stuff.
Flight modeling? There's always room for debate here. There's a LOT that comes under scrutiny regarding AH's flight model. Do they feel a little different? Sure. Is either perfect? Certainly not. Is one more "correct" than the other? There's no way to tell. Do all of the planes in IL-2 fly the same? Hardly. Is quite a bit of the complaining that people do about both games due to stick setup? Likely.
Views? I went with a Track IR YEARS ago so they're all good to me. Seriously folks, if you have to not eat for a month in order to afford one, do so. You'll fit into all those jeans in the back of your closet and your simming experience will never be the same. ('Course you'll hafta download a 6DOF patch for IL-2.) You don't even hafta splurge for the new model 5. Get a used 4 from eBay or something. It's seriously the best simming purchase I've made, right after a joystick. As for the views realism, honestly, I think that AH is a little lenient. I donno about the rest of you, but I have been strapped into a cockpit while dogfighting (against HiTech, no less.) You simply aren't clambering around in your seat, twisting your head all akimbo in order to get that view behind you. Now maybe some guys left their straps loose for a little more maneuverability in the cockpit, but for my sake, when I'm hanging weightless at the top of a loop, I feel a lot more comfortable snug in the seat and not dangeling several inches outta it. :) Plus, it's hard to stomp down on that rudder pedal to get your crate's nose around when you've got no solid perch to give you something to press against.
Offline play? While offline missions in AH (FINALLY!) are great, they don't compare to the offline play in IL-2. This, IMO, is what IL-2 is for. Sometimes I just want to jump into a game and fly a P-40 at Pearl Harbor. Or a campaign as a Marine Major in the Pacific. Or blast away at Bf-110s in a P-80. I actually don't play IL-2 online at all. Finding a full-realism server with quality opponents is too much of a struggle.
There's room on at least THIS simmer's hard drive for both. I fly them for different reasons and enjoy them both equally, fully aware of the pros & cons of each. I'm well past the juvenile "my choice is better than yours" stage that many people seem to never leave. My PS3 exists happily alongside my Xbox 360. I own both Ford & GM. (Of course some choices don't fall into this. PC > Mac. And Atari computers were always better than Commodores. ;-) ) When I'm after one thing, I fly IL-2. When I'm after another, I fly AH.
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Excellent post Doberman - and I agree. Well except for the Atari > Commodore nonsens, hehe :)
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Doberman....who won the dogfight between you and Hitech? :D
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Excellent post Doberman - and I agree. Well except for the Atari > Commodore nonsens, hehe :)
I used to own an ST publicly I hated amigas but secretly I wanted one :rofl its took me years to come to terms with that! :bolt:
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Oh boy, here we go again...
I'll respectfully disagree here. When I fly AH after playing another flight sim, there is a way in which the aircraft feel the same, but that is because AH has a distinct feel. Il-2 also has a distinct feel, but after you've played it a bit, you laugh when people say the aircraft feel the same. AH has the riding on rails feeling, while Il-2 feels slippery (best analogy I can think of). Both have excellent flight models in my opinion, and I've played more than a dozen flight sims since the late '80s.
Secondly, with the latest Il-2 mods, e.g. HSFX, AH is still way behind in graphics, especially with clouds, fires, and optical effects.
I also think it's silly to compare the two sims too strictly because what they offer is so different. Il-2 does not have MMP, AH does. Many Il-2 servers offer historical matchups with semi-accurate maps (some with snow or desert), goals for each side to accomplish, etc.; AH offers big fictonal maps where almost anything goes.
Edit: I forgot to mention that gunnery is more difficult in Il-2, and that makes a big difference for gameplay. While it's no big woop to see someone land seven or eight kills in AH, I get excited over three or four (human opponents) in Il-2.
I actually agree with Anaxogoras...very well put sir. :salute
P.S. I do prefer AH due to the "human factor" nothing more...the recent upgrades have made it more interesting as well.
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Doberman....who won the dogfight between you and Hitech? :D
He did, though in my defense he never really got a clean shot at me in any of our fights. They devolved into descending fights that ended with me hitting the hard deck before him each time. In his support though, he made a better move at the merge each time and DID have an advantage. Not a HUGE one, but he was in command and would have likely either eventually gotten in the saddle or flew me into the ground.
Personally, I blame the losses on the many many aviation-themed shots he bought me the night before and the resulting hangover. I told them they shouldn't have scheduled the best fight of the day for 8:00 AM. :)
This was at a Fighter Pilots USA tournament about a decade ago, just before AH I think. We were still playing Warbirds back then. :)
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Yup, we are getting the new damage model integrated into AH, but I won't be expectign it to be done anyitme soon, that's a lot of planes/vehicles to rework/test/critique.
That's why the damage model is being tested out in the WW1, it will make the development and transition go that much quicker.
ack-ack
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Personally, I blame the losses on the many many aviation-themed shots he bought me the night before and the resulting hangover. I told them they shouldn't have scheduled the best fight of the day for 8:00 AM. :)
:rofl :aok
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Heh. So I haven't thought much about this in a while. I mention it here and then a coupla days later, I've got some air combat show playing on the Military Channel on my new cable package and I hear a voice I recognize. I turn around to the screen and there's Mouse. Robert Shaw, the man who wrote the book on fighter combat (the aptly named "Fighter Combat" ;) ). He came and hung out at the tournament and was out drinking with us the night before as well. Haven't seen him in forever. He still making it to the AH cons now and then?
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Whatever happened to the BoB version of Il-2?
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Whatever happened to the BoB version of Il-2?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQbCIT-aMnY
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQbCIT-aMnY
I'm already saving money to build a new box that can handle it. :cry :P
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I'm already saving money to build a new box that can handle it. :cry :P
From the looks of it, you'll have plenty of time to sock away those pennies. :) Looks amazing, but I'm not holding out hope for getting it anytime soon.
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I agree with Anax and Doby.
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Heya Kweassa,
here is the updated bbs links for your sig, Sir ( your links point to no where )
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,155592.msg1745324.html#msg1745324
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,166537.msg1889964.html#msg1889964
so you back playing Aces high these days?
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Unfortunately, no, Teq.
I'm just lingering around a smelly, silent fart that just won't go away
:devil