Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Skuzzy on March 31, 2010, 02:59:16 PM

Title: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Skuzzy on March 31, 2010, 02:59:16 PM
World War I planes have a special requirement for skinning.  Please read this before you submit any World War I plane skins (http://www.hitechcreations.com/skinning/ww1/skinning.html).  Thank you.
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Krusty on March 31, 2010, 03:12:18 PM
I was wondering how that would work. Thanks for the "thousands of words"  :D

I have 2 questions:

If the skinner is advanced enough, would HTC allow them to map their own damage out, or would you prefer to have a more standardized damage that folks will recognize as the same from skin to skin?

Going forward, do you know if WW2 planes will eventually follow suit, or is this only for the cloth covered biplanes?
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Skuzzy on March 31, 2010, 03:14:43 PM
Do not try and make your own mask.  We are providing the masks because they have to be precisely what we used.  WW1 planes are the only ones who will have this.

"Thousands of words"??
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Spikes on March 31, 2010, 03:20:11 PM

"Thousands of words"??
Think he means a picture's worth a thousand words. :)
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Krusty on March 31, 2010, 03:20:35 PM
A picture is worth a thousand words  :aok

Thanks for the answer Re: damage layers
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on March 31, 2010, 10:09:14 PM
If I understand correctly We are to:
1. place the PNG damage mask over our new texture layers and compress it to a usable BMP for use in game giving us A new damage texture for our altered BMP.
2. We now have 2 two new BMPs. Our new texture /un damaged, along with our new texture with the new mask you have provided for our damaged texture
3 We do this for both the Wing BMP as well as the Fuselage section. giving us a total of 4 bmps to send in two undamaged two damaged in the case of a D7 files : (D71.bmp)(D71D.bmp)(D72.bmp)(D72D.bmp)
 
If I have that right This is the result when I tested of line.
 
Below is after the mask was added to the damage BMP.you can see  pink in from external view on wing supports wont show if zoomed in fro wide view it shows only.... If I paint over the supports on the new mask the same color as the supports it disappears... Is that a bug?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-8/809754/2010-90-20-12-58-2-ahss30.jpg)
 
This Is what I get if I don't use the new damage mask. Still an issue there, you can see the original wings, as I left the layer on for the internals to show.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-8/809754/2010-90-20-12-58-3-ahss32.jpg)
 
Here is what it looks like with the new mask added to my new texture damage bmp.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-8/809754/ahss31.jpg)
 
Did I do something wrong, or is there a problem with the mask?
 
Please advise. .
Thanks In advance RaVe
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Krusty on March 31, 2010, 10:23:58 PM
I suspect when you flatten your bitmap down to 256 colors it's shifting the color the alpha uses. Try using a sample of the pink alpha, creating a small square paint bucket fill somewhere on your skin (between mapped areas) then down-sample it to 256 colors.

Compare the RGB values on the skin and on the template, merge these layers (may need to switch back to RGB again after downsamping, merge, re-downsample???).

Seems like an extra step in there, but should be something you can figure out. I had the same problem in the past with old Ah skins that use alpha colors in them, like the P-40E and the old 109E. It can be a pain, but it's doable.
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Greebo on April 01, 2010, 02:14:52 AM
To make the damage bmps work offline you also need to alter two text files, in the case of the Camel these are camel1d.txt and camel2d.txt. These are included in the bunch of files you get when you get the default files for a skin. They contain the palette number of the pink colour used for the transparent areas.

To find out what palette number to use in the text file I opened each camelxD.bmp file in Paint Shop Pro, selected colour/edit palette and clicked on the pink colour in the palette. The palette index number is the one you enter into the text file. Every time you make any alteration to the skin you will need to alter this number to get damage to work offline again.
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Skuzzy on April 01, 2010, 06:23:14 AM
Hmmm.  I can see where a problem might occur with a color shift in the damage mask.

Just a thought, but what about finding one pixel that is not being used in the regular texture and coloring it the damage mask color?  This way your texture should not be resampled when you add the damage mask to it.

I could be clueless here as I am still sucking down the first cup of coffee.
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on April 01, 2010, 06:59:00 AM


Just woke up too, this is bouncing off my brain. :confused:

Ill come back to check later.

 :bolt:
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Mus51 on April 01, 2010, 07:51:38 AM
I've got the same problem:

(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5720/grab160kopie.jpg)
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on April 01, 2010, 08:55:18 AM
To make the damage bmps work offline you also need to alter two text files, in the case of the Camel these are camel1d.txt and camel2d.txt. These are included in the bunch of files you get when you get the default files for a skin. They contain the palette number of the pink colour used for the transparent areas.

To find out what palette number to use in the text file I opened each camelxD.bmp file in Paint Shop Pro, selected colour/edit palette and clicked on the pink colour in the palette. The palette index number is the one you enter into the text file. Every time you make any alteration to the skin you will need to alter this number to get damage to work offline again.

Thanks MR Greebo and Skuzzy.. More awake now

Then I should include that altered text file with my submission? so It will work of line as well?
RaVe
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Krusty on April 01, 2010, 09:32:32 AM
That would depend on what HTC wants. Do they want that specific mask color used for their damage system to work, or do they just want that damage pattern used as the mask?

If they want that color it gets tricky. If they just want that pattern, then it's okay if the color shifts a bit as long as you get the right number in your camel1d.txt and camel2d.txt files.
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Skuzzy on April 01, 2010, 10:19:54 AM
Ok, here is a step by step for you who have not figured it out.

1) Create your two textures for your skin.
2) Save them down as 8 bit indexed bitmaps.
3) Edit the bitmaps and find a 4 pixel area not used in the texture and make it the color of the damage mask.
4) Save it.
5) Now, load the bitmaps and copy them to a new 32 bit file.
6) Lay the damage mask on top of that texture as a new layer.
7) Flatten and convert the texture to a bitmap.  

The RGB of the color in the mask is 255, 0, 255.  It cannot be deviated from.

What I missed was the text files containing the index value of the mask color from the bitmap.  It will vary.  No way to prevent that from happening.  You have to get the index value, from the bitmap, where the mask color is stored.  Once you have that value, you will have to edit the corresponding text files and change it.

EDIT: I  have modified the instructions at the link in the first post.
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: USRanger on April 01, 2010, 04:25:17 PM
(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1511/dunce.gif) (http://img227.imageshack.us/i/dunce.gif/)

This should be...fun.

 :)
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on April 01, 2010, 09:41:59 PM
No Joy.  Even with the step by step I cant seem to manage it

I'm feeling very stupid and frustrated at this point ....

Working in Photo shop eliments

"1) Create your two textures for your skin."
RGRT, did It

"2) Save them down as 8 bit indexed bitmaps."
RGR ,I compress To a 1 meg bmp, like all skins

"3) Edit the bitmaps and find a 4 pixel area not used in the texture and make it the color of the damage mask."
I take that to mean, edit=open the bmp.. put a 4 pix 255 0 255 dot on the a blank section of the texture ie the grey back ground.
I placed the 255 0 255 4 pix dot on the compressed BMP. in order to see it as pink, I needed to change the BMP to RGB for it to show pink. If it stays a BMP 255 0 255 shows white greyish.

"4) Save it."

Did That

"5) Now, load the bitmaps and copy them to a new 32 bit file

Load? I select all on the bmp, copy it, and opened a new 1024x1024 rgb and pasted it.

"6) Lay the damage mask on top of that texture as a new layer."

Did, that gives, me two layers mask and Clean BMP

"7) Flatten and convert the texture to a bitmap."

flattened it and compressed it to 8bit 1 meg file

"What I missed was the text files containing the index value of the mask color from the bitmap."  
isn't the index value of the mask 255 0 255?

"It will vary.  No way to prevent that from happening."
After I did all the steps the mask always remained 255 0 255 when I selected it with the eye dropper tool.

"You have to get the index value, from the bitmap, where the mask color is stored."Not sure what that means, I thought when I selected with eye dropper I got that info.. I'm using photo shop elements

"Once you have that value, you will have to edit the corresponding text files and change it."

There are only 3 numbers in that tex file  in the default txt for a D7
If  the index value is 255 0 255 would I just use 255 i tried it every witch way from sunday...

I did this on both  the damaged and undamaged files  I also tried it on only the file for the damage mask as well as only the undamaged file. 5 hrs trying to figure this out, even with instructions given.  It cant be that hard.
Seems easy, I don't understand the problem. I never see the value of that pink dot change.
I think I'm missing the boat on the instructions sorry to be on the short bus here, but I'm clueless, not to Strong on the transparency stuff. :o
were did I screw it up?
RaVe





Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Krusty on April 01, 2010, 11:19:00 PM
When you save the file as 8-bit it indexes those colors. On the color palette every color is given an index, like an array of numbers, only instead of numbers it's an array of color values.

The value you put in the .txt file is not the RGB colors, but rather their position in that color array.

So when you use the eyedropper on your 8-bit image, it should tell you under the info page RGB and index. That index is what you put in the text file.

It will be a number anywhere from 0 to 255, since you have 256 colors. It can change any time you re-save the file, especially if you change or add any colors.





The only real problem I see with flattening the clean layer, creating a new file, and reimporting the damage layer, is that you're adding new colors with the damage layer! You still have to down-sample them when saving as 8-bit.

It's not an insurmountable task, but still something that (once in a blue moon?) might color shift the pink areas.
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Skuzzy on April 02, 2010, 07:27:54 AM
When you save the file as 8-bit it indexes those colors. On the color palette every color is given an index, like an array of numbers, only instead of numbers it's an array of color values.

The value you put in the .txt file is not the RGB colors, but rather their position in that color array.

So when you use the eyedropper on your 8-bit image, it should tell you under the info page RGB and index. That index is what you put in the text file.

It will be a number anywhere from 0 to 255, since you have 256 colors. It can change any time you re-save the file, especially if you change or add any colors.





The only real problem I see with flattening the clean layer, creating a new file, and reimporting the damage layer, is that you're adding new colors with the damage layer! You still have to down-sample them when saving as 8-bit.

It's not an insurmountable task, but still something that (once in a blue moon?) might color shift the pink areas.

Krusty, that is why you add the damage mask color directly into your base skin.  This way when you flatten it down and save it as a bitmap, the color for the damage mask is already in the index.  Then when you lay the dmage mask over the skin it will not be a new color being added.

If you look at the damage mask and see other colors not in your skin, just insert the colors into the base skin textures.

Raven, Krusty is correct about the "255,0,255".  That is the RGB values.  The index in the bitmap is where that color is located.
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on April 02, 2010, 08:21:28 AM
 Thanks Krusty I found the index page under windows in photoshop elements thanks for pointing me to it..

Thanks Skuzzy ...Just to be sure, and sorry to be a Big PITA...

Lets see if I have it now, As I think I'm overcomplicating a simple process .

1. I compress all my original layers to 8 bmp.

2. Then I open that compressed Bmp.

3. I change mode from index to RGB and put a 4 pix dot of 255 0 255 in a blank spot.(OR DO I PUT THE 4 PIX DOT WIEL ITS IN INDEX MODE)

4.I re-compress to a 8 bmp index again

5. reopen the 8bmp change mode to rgb? i think..?, ad the damage mask as a new layer then re compress to 8bmp
(AGAIN NOT SURE IF I LEAVE THE REOPEND LAYER AS INDEX AND AD THE png DAMAGE MASK OR CHANGE MODE TO RGB AND AD THE MASK)

6. Then re open it again put the eye dropper on the dot and go to the index page under "window" in eliments, to see the index value

7. place that value in the apropreate txt file. in the default folder.. (or do I place the text file in my New skin folder as I would a material file..?)

Correct me is I'm wrong ..... this only done for the damage mask BMP's ?  the case of a D7 the D71D.bmp D72D.bmp ..
don't do it for  D71.bmp or D72.bmp

Thanks Rave
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Krusty on April 02, 2010, 03:05:25 PM
Krusty, that is why you add the damage mask color directly into your base skin.  This way when you flatten it down and save it as a bitmap, the color for the damage mask is already in the index.  Then when you lay the dmage mask over the skin it will not be a new color being added.

True. I brought it up just as a cautionary note because the damage mask isn't just a single color. It's got the browns and the shades for all the wood ribs showing through. All of these need to be reoganized/downsampled into the final file. Unless you devote a square area for all of them like you did for the pink color.

I suppose putting a chunk of the wood pattern onto your "undamaged" skin -- like putting a patch of the pink color -- before merging with the damage layer should remove that issue, for the most part.
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on April 02, 2010, 04:38:32 PM
Anybody going to confirm?  :pray
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: zmeg on April 02, 2010, 07:45:48 PM


    There is a much easier way to do this and you don't have to add dots to the originals or edit the alpha text. When you convert to indexed color there is an option to "force" custom colors. Just force 255,0,255 in the 0 position on the color map. After that you can overlay the damage mask without any additional steps.
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on April 02, 2010, 10:03:27 PM
Thanks Guys, Got It. :aok
With greebos input as well as Skuzzy and krusty
Had to locate the "info" page in my old eliments program. After Krusty pointed me to look for the info page, I could find the index value to plug in.
Then all fell into place per Skuzzys instructions.

 
Thanks to all involved
  RaVe
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: Yeager on June 11, 2010, 01:29:30 PM
I DO look forward to seeing WW1 skins.  Skins have always added another layer of interest/attraction/fascination to the game.

The only other thing I could add would be "Please release some new WW1 skins soon".
Title: Re: Skinning World War I Planes
Post by: PropHawk on July 08, 2010, 10:06:25 PM
I'll get on it. Anyone want an all scarlet triplane? :)