Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RufusLeaking on January 11, 2011, 08:44:37 AM
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There has been some discussion of ‘hordes’ and ‘picking’ lately. I am guilty of both in my sordid past, but last night, I tried to ask on local vox before I dove in.
One time, I was third in a green conga line behind a red guy, and announced I was holding fire. My immediate thinking was that if the other two broke off, I would take the shot. (No claims on right thinking.)
Another time there were a few shooting a set of B-24s from the six o’clock, and, without any radio calls, I slashed through and bagged one.
A third time, there was a siren P-38J, pulling green guys out to sea and killing them. Finally, I participated in a three man gang to bring him down.
Another time, I asked a friendly who I knew could here me, but was unsure if he had a mic. I dove in when it looked like he was getting shot.
So, if one goes beyond the “anything goes” philosophy, what is a practical set of standards with regards to taking a shot, or jumping into a fight?
At what point in a furball does etiquette go out the window?
At what point against a killer ace is ganging acceptable?
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If there is a hoarde of friendlies already on a red, I love to swoop in and put the red out of his misery. Denying a hoarde of a kill?
I enjoy it.
If there is a 1v1 or 2v1, I'll normally stay out of the fight, or ask if they need help first.
For me, it's very complicated and hard to put into words. Simply put, it depends solely on the situation and what I feel is the
right reaction.
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The MA is a cage match and their are no hard rules or etiquette. So break out the folding chair and smack them when they aren't looking! With that said I think Eskimo said it well enough: it varies situation to situation. If there is two or more on a con, I tend to go look for prey elsewhere.
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Yesterday, I was on the dead 6 of a spit16, with a greenie off my rear trying to get the kill shot. My own channel highlighted "guy", without asking dived in right in front of me just as i got the kill shot and was firing guns, goodness know where he came from or why. I blasted the spit16 into pieces but in the process, almost kill shot myself, my right wing riddled with holes. I'm mentally prepared for greenies being crazy knuckle dragging bastages, that chase and shoot at anything, but from someone on channel... I found it too difficult not to vent my annoyance. I personally don't mind support, but blatant unbridaled stupidity i am definately in opposition to.
"If your the third guy on a contact, your in the wrong place!"
Some standards are a good thing to have in this game. And those that have them :salute
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Ask, wait for the answer:
1-if no answer, kill it (buy a mic or get yours fixed)
2-if answer is Yes or HEEEEEELLLLLPPPPP MMMMMEEEEE!!!!! kill it
3-if answer is No then by all means stay the hell out....unless you can see he is gonna die and just doesn't know it THEN kill it
4-if no answer and the green guy is taking on 5 on the deck alone (read: JUGgler or PotNPans) kill it because they dont know any better than to be there in the first place in a -25 or a 205 or are to busy pushing flap buttons and deploying landing gear to push the range key. I know things.
Changeup
There's nothing like having 4 sets of tracers firing over your canopy at a con you are #1 on! I will start pulling up into the ammo streams from now on! lmao!
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BUt killing gangers is soo much fun!! this one time at bandcamp....and this one time at bandcamp.........lol i jk
once i killed 4 or 5 nme in like 3 seconds-they were all ina bunched up ball trying to kill Limbo0 HAHAHA :lol killed them all but Limbo0 didn make it :(
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4-if no answer and the green guy is taking on 5 on the deck alone (read: JUGgler or PotNPans) kill it because they dont know any better than to be there in the first place in a -25 or a 205 or are to busy pushing flap buttons and deploying landing gear to push the range key. I know things.
I've seen him fight, he's like :joystick: ...... :lol
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Always ask first.......If no response.. take it as a yes come on in :D
If there is 3 or 4 greenies chasing a red guy, join the bandwagon! (he's gonna die anyways).
Always stay out of 1 v 1.
If someone is screeming help, then do what he says! Get the easy kill :devil
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Occasionally, I'll thank a green guy for clearing my 12.
You set your own code of gameplay, no one else has to follow it. That said, I appreciate when green guys ask first. Usually I will. Unless the red guy made a pass at me and I want him really dead.
HONK!
Gooss
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I think there are a lot of variables that go into the decision. If I happen across a 1v1 someplace I'll usually ask the friendly if he wants help, if I get no answer I'll stay out unless it looks like he/she is losing. There are exceptions of course that factor in, if I know the players involved in the fight, if either one would like the 1v1 regardless of the outcome I also tend to stay out of it. If we're all engaged in a big furball (with multiple planes on each side) I'm less likely to acknowledge a 1v1. I caught some flak the other night for picking a fight, and pick I did but my reasons were that we were facing a steady stream of higher cons and eliminating them as efficiently and quickly as possible was the only thing keeping us from being overrun. So there's a lot that goes into the decision, right down to how grumpy I'm feeling that particular night. :)
In many cases in the MA being the 3rd, 4th, 5th guy in is actually not in your best interest tying up too many planes on one opponent is often a tactical mistake.
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The MA is a cage match and their are no hard rules or etiquette. So break out the folding chair and smack them when they aren't looking!
Do you wear a cape with your tights?
But seriously, I am seeing that this is a gray area. Ten guys will have ten opinions. It is also situational.
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If I come upon a 1v1 "in progress" I will not get involved even if the friendly is screaming for help, "I may have a good laugh" but I will not alter the outcome that both of these guys are trying to achieve. It is easy enough to get a new plane. If I enter a fight vs multiple cons at the outset then I've just signed up for being ganged "which I do regularly"and will not grief over it. I will actually go out of my way to give grief to friendlies who
pile on" a lone con! Now if the victor was the red guy, It is reasonable to go ahead and scoop him off the deck after they've finished, even if that victor is me :aok
What is exactly the point of jumping someone who has been fighting a 1v1 for a bit? Both of those guys have their tactics set for 1v1, to be "the odd man in" after their fight has degraded to a low slow slugfest is very selfish and disrespectfull IMHO
I freely give grief when I've been jumped by peeps whom I believe are "good players" and should know better!
I do not grief them if I've entered the 1vs horde by my own choice unless they are basecamping or vulching!
The best fights are always the ones when the opponents are "known" and of "quality" as this breeds an air of respect and acknowledgement that "you will be able to finish your 1v1" unmolested! These contests are always played out in unspoken respectfull appreciation for the quality of fight each peep is allowing to play out! Sadly many "quality" peeps these days disregard this attitude, but there are a few Oldschool hold outs and I for 1 appreciate them <S>
The rest of the styles of play are just silly.
Also if you are a good stick, it is time to stop HOing.
JUGgler
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Ask, wait for the answer:
1-if no answer, kill it (buy a mic or get yours fixed)
2-if answer is Yes or HEEEEEELLLLLPPPPP MMMMMEEEEE!!!!! kill it
3-if answer is No then by all means stay the hell out....unless you can see he is gonna die and just doesn't know it THEN kill it
4-if no answer and the green guy is taking on 5 on the deck alone (read: JUGgler or PotNPans) kill it because they dont know any better than to be there in the first place in a -25 or a 205 or are to busy pushing flap buttons and deploying landing gear to push the range key. I know things.
Changeup
There's nothing like having 4 sets of tracers firing over your canopy at a con you are #1 on! I will start pulling up into the ammo streams from now on! lmao!
:aok +1
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There has been some discussion of ‘hordes’ and ‘picking’ lately.
you must be new here......
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If it is Mensa you are flying with, it is perfectly acceptable to clear his 12 o'clock. After he dies to the one at his 6 o'clock. you can kill that one too.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the MA, your SA has failed you. They do not exist... Personally, once I know someone I respect is in the area, I will make every attempt to keep the fight enjoyable for him, a good example was BillyD the other night. I knew he was in the area in a 109K, so I gave that 109K every courtesy I possibly could, including climbing up to a co alt/E status with me. This is tougher when someone isn't in the same model plane each flight, like Agent was doing later.
There is little point in having 3+ guys gang a con, it just increases the risk of friendly fire and it isn't much fun for the one being abused. However, diving into multiple cons and then complaining about being ganged on 200 is pretty stupid too.
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Hmm... let's see if we can keep this one short by cutting to the chase...
Everyone puts the line in a different spot for what they will and will not do in a fight ingame. Do what you believe is right for you, and ignore everyone who whines about your style of play. Appreciate so-called 'honorable play' if you like it, but don't expect it from anybody in the MA.
Delirium, if it's alright, YOINK!
Wiley.
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<S> to all good fights
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Delirium, if it's alright, YOINK!
I don't understand... maybe I'm just having a low caffeine blood level today.
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That's sig material right there. I wanted to yoink that quote for my sig, is all I was saying.
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I don't understand... maybe I'm just having a low caffeine blood level today.
Check his siggy :aok
*edit He beat me to it! I must be far more tired than I thought :D
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I try and make a point of asking when I see a guy having at it with a badun. No point in ruining his fun unless he asks for help. I tend to throw myself in front of the conga line to clear a friendly too. Seems safe enough since I don't really die, and it's fun to see if I can get them all to break.
If I know there is a good 1 v 1 going on I'll try and type on 200 that 'the 38G is out" so they know I'm not going to bounce the fight.
I also make very good bait, and I'll do my best to drag a conga line as straight as I can for friendlies to shoot. I don't always survive those, but it's amazing how many multiple kill passes I can provide :)
In the end, the more of us having fun the better, so I figure a little courtesy won't hurt.
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If it is Mensa you are flying with, it is perfectly acceptable to clear his 12 o'clock. After he dies to the one at his 6 o'clock. you can kill that one too.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the MA, your SA has failed you. They do not exist... Personally, once I know someone I respect is in the area, I will make every attempt to keep the fight enjoyable for him, a good example was BillyD the other night. I knew he was in the area in a 109K, so I gave that 109K every courtesy I possibly could, including climbing up to a co alt/E status with me. This is tougher when someone isn't in the same model plane each flight, like Agent was doing later.
There is little point in having 3+ guys gang a con, it just increases the risk of friendly fire and it isn't much fun for the one being abused. However, diving into multiple cons and then complaining about being ganged on 200 is pretty stupid too.
Man that was an interesting night to say the least in AH, it went from just a few people battling it out to a full on horde over A239. Good fun tho Del....I appreciate the courtesy for what it is worth. I look forward to fighting you soon, you are one of the toughest and more creative 38 drivers I've met in cartoon combat.
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I let the 1v1's fight it out - don't want to ruin it for either the green guy or or the red guy. I' let the friendly know on range. And if multiples are on a single I'll just keep my alt. F4U climbs to friggin' slow to go wh*ring after an assist.
Different in a furball of course, and when close to an enemy base with cons upping. Or if the red guy is a Dora...hate those things.
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I simply ask if someone needs help in the 1v1 situations. Even in 2v1, I ask. In a gigantic furball....If it is obvious someone is on the fray in 1v1, I ask. In the total chaos of a prairie dust devil.....now that is tough, I am way too busy giving Check 6 and responding on local vox to various things....then I don't ask.
Just kind of raised this way and is the way I like to play. If others enjoy playing differently then that's fine with me.
Side note: If there ever could be a "GV Furball" then the rules could apply I suppose. GV battles in my mind are dog-eat-dog and if I see ANYTHING I am taking the shot.
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If it is Mensa you are flying with, it is perfectly acceptable to clear his 12 o'clock. After he dies to the one at his 6 o'clock. you can kill that one too.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the MA, your SA has failed you. They do not exist... Personally, once I know someone I respect is in the area, I will make every attempt to keep the fight enjoyable for him,
+1
Del gets "it". :aok
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If it is Mensa you are flying with, it is perfectly acceptable to clear his 12 o'clock. After he dies to the one at his 6 o'clock. you can kill that one too.
+1
Del gets "it". :aok
Mensa doesn't like it tho.
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Mensa doesn't like it tho.
I challenge my fellow muppets to steal my kills. Kappa and Sunbat love clearing my twelve. :D
If I can't kill the guy in due time, I don't deserve it, that's how I see it. :aok
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I think the AH version of the golden rule works best.
HO, Vulch, Pick, bomb****, Hoard, RUN, Gang, Ram, unto others as you'd like to be, HO'ed, Vulched, Picked, bomb****ed, Hoarded, RUN from, Ganged, Ramed.
If what you are about to do, would make you PO'ed to have it happen to you, don't do it.
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I think the AH version of the golden rule works best.
HO, Vulch, Pick, bomber, Hoard, RUN, Gang, Ram, unto others as you'd like to be, HO'ed, Vulched, Picked, bombered, Hoarded, RUN from, Ganged, Ramed.
If what you are about to do, would make you PO'ed to have it happen to you, don't do it.
On the other side of the coin.
What if you are engaged with several baddies, when another baddy comes in from his perch and HO shoots you from 1000 out?
Do you not have the right to track him down and try to return the favor?
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http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/do.htm
:angel: Give it a read :)
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+1
Del gets "it". :aok
Sounds like Muppet material to me.
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Do you not have the right to track him down and try to return the favor?
Personally I find going back and out-flying that individual for a good kill, is much more gratifying than going back and giving him a HO shot.
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Personally I find going back and out-flying that individual for a good kill, is much more gratifying than going back and giving him a HO shot.
Point taken. Best to keep a level head.
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Do you wear a cape with your tights?
Howdy Ruf! Only on Titanic Tuesdays! :rofl
(http://www.sillylobster.com/m_pictures/thumbs/pig_costume_43645456.jpg)
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Point taken. Best to keep a level head.
It definitely feels better to outfly them and kill them 'right' if the option presents itself. Myself, I've been finding lately that quite a few people I run into are flying in a crowd, or just ahead of a crowd, and coming straight in for the HO. In that case, I generally oblige them, reasoning that that's all they're worth, then I can get back to engaging the other bandits in the area.
Waystin- :huh That's... quite the outfit.
Wiley.
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In that case, I generally oblige them, reasoning that that's all they're worth, then I can get back to engaging the other bandits in the area.
Wiley.
so basically, you're a HO'tard yourself. at least you admit it, which is the first step to recovery.
ack-ack
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Not precisely, Ack. If I'm merging and I see a little bit of deflection, I don't HO them. If they're alone, I don't HO them.
However, if they're the lead plane in a crowd and all I can see from 3000 out to 2000 out is a + because they have absolutely no intention of doing anything other than face shooting me, then yes, I oblige them.
Apparently that makes me a HO'tard. I guess I'll just have to live with that. I will attempt to sleep through the tears.
Wiley.
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If I can't kill the guy in due time, I don't deserve it, that's how I see it. :aok
Its easy to say that when the last time you missed a shot was in 1982.
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I will not interfere with a 1vs1, if the guy asks for help, I will unless he is on my tard list then I just let him die, my tard list is WAY longer then the respected list, if I am in a 1vs1 you know damn well id rather die then get help, I dont think I have ever asked for help. in a "furball" there are no rules except kill as you can, if I am fighting multi cons well then I wont care if someone jumps in, I also wont care if they dont join, I DISAGREE with Del there are plenty of 1vs1's in the mains, and If im in a 1vs1 and see a green guy comming in I ask him to stay out before he gets a chance to interfer, if he ignores me, I break off from the con I was fighting to let him contend with the new threat, I dont care how any one flyes, just how I fly, I do wish more ingame, brought Honor to the game but it is what it is.
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Ive always been fortunate that if I'm engaged 1vs1 and asked ppl to stay out..they always do. People have even returned the courtesy to make sure others don't interupt either.
Sometimes it sucks because you get a good dance going with that rare guy who doesn't ho and just wants to fight and next turn, you find 2 or 3 other friendlies pouncing on it (Mir, that was fun last night 38 vs 205 fight we had going on btw.)
Occasionally you get that LA or pony that every merge, starts spraying at 2k for your head and to that I say...Hes all yours if you can get him.
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I DISAGREE with Del there are plenty of 1vs1's in the mains
I personally feel the more accurate way to put that would be, 'There are varying levels of distance from the nearest help in the mains' :D
Wiley.
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1 vs. 1's are to be treasured in the MA's. They simply do not occur that often. When they do, enjoy the hell out of them! :aok
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There has been some discussion of ‘hordes’ and ‘picking’ lately. I am guilty of both in my sordid past, but last night, I tried to ask on local vox before I dove in.
One time, I was third in a green conga line behind a red guy, and announced I was holding fire. My immediate thinking was that if the other two broke off, I would take the shot. (No claims on right thinking.)
Another time there were a few shooting a set of B-24s from the six o’clock, and, without any radio calls, I slashed through and bagged one.
A third time, there was a siren P-38J, pulling green guys out to sea and killing them. Finally, I participated in a three man gang to bring him down.
Another time, I asked a friendly who I knew could here me, but was unsure if he had a mic. I dove in when it looked like he was getting shot.
So, if one goes beyond the “anything goes” philosophy, what is a practical set of standards with regards to taking a shot, or jumping into a fight?
At what point in a furball does etiquette go out the window?
At what point against a killer ace is ganging acceptable?
Funny :lol Every one acts like they have no clue and playing dumb. But everyone does know, right? Because if you really don;t know, then I have no clue how you go about your every day life.
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Personally I find going back and out-flying that individual for a good kill, is much more gratifying than going back and giving him a HO shot.
Anyone worth the salt on their balls can defeat any HO. If not then they deserve it right to the face.
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Its easy to say that when the last time you missed a shot was in 1982.
:rofl My first reaction, as well.
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http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/do.htm
:angel: Give it a read :)
I like that :aok
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I will not interfere with a 1vs1, if the guy asks for help, I will unless he is on my tard list then I just let him die, my tard list is WAY longer then the respected list, if I am in a 1vs1 you know damn well id rather die then get help, I dont think I have ever asked for help. in a "furball" there are no rules except kill as you can, if I am fighting multi cons well then I wont care if someone jumps in, I also wont care if they dont join, I DISAGREE with Del there are plenty of 1vs1's in the mains, and If im in a 1vs1 and see a green guy comming in I ask him to stay out before he gets a chance to interfer, if he ignores me, I break off from the con I was fighting to let him contend with the new threat, I dont care how any one flyes, just how I fly, I do wish more ingame, brought Honor to the game but it is what it is.
OK I'm agreeing with Ink again. Lots of times once you know someone is in the area you try and slide out to the side to fight 1 v 1. JUGgler and I've done that fairly recently. Sunbat and I have not too long ago, etc. Expecting a 1v1 in the arena is probably hoping for too much, but when they happen, showing some courtesy to the guys fighting it, isn't asking too much...unless it's Mensa. Then just dive in and shoot :)
Bottom line is that it's still on each of us how we come to the fight and how we deal with it. Getting others to play your way, is going to be a tough one though. Some will, some won't. Expecting it is probably asking too much.
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I'm prolly a "non-standard" player in this regard.
I try to "check-6" everyone I see in danger of being flamed, mindset being: not everyone, especially new players has a good situational awareness and some folks can use all the help they can get so I err on the side of caution instead of letting everyone fend for themselves. I also do my best to clear every six I see in danger as best I can, being far from being a good stick myself.
Normally--I hollar out on VOX--"Hey [ID] ya need a hand over there?" If there's no reply and they look like they are on the short end of the fight I ask again. I try to be non-intrusive if the other greenie thinks they may have a shot of turning the fight around and flaming the red guy.
If they reply they need no help I leave that fight alone and it would be nice if others did as well.
For the most part it seems MA/LW is pretty much a free-for-all for furballs. I do not normally furball but most folks just seem to be out for themselves.
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http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/do.htm
:angel: Give it a read :)
I remember the first time I ever read that - bookmarked and every time I bring a new player into the game I throw them that link.
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Funny :lol Every one acts like they have no clue and playing dumb. But everyone does know, right? Because if you really don;t know, then I have no clue how you go about your every day life.
I fall down a lot...
The point of the OP is to get a range of opinions on the subject.
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There has been some discussion of ‘hordes’ and ‘picking’ lately. I am guilty of both in my sordid past, but last night, I tried to ask on local vox before I dove in.
One time, I was third in a green conga line behind a red guy, and announced I was holding fire. My immediate thinking was that if the other two broke off, I would take the shot. (No claims on right thinking.)
Another time there were a few shooting a set of B-24s from the six o’clock, and, without any radio calls, I slashed through and bagged one.
A third time, there was a siren P-38J, pulling green guys out to sea and killing them. Finally, I participated in a three man gang to bring him down.
Another time, I asked a friendly who I knew could here me, but was unsure if he had a mic. I dove in when it looked like he was getting shot.
So, if one goes beyond the “anything goes” philosophy, what is a practical set of standards with regards to taking a shot, or jumping into a fight?
At what point in a furball does etiquette go out the window?
At what point against a killer ace is ganging acceptable?
Discretion .
If you see a 1 V 1 away from the pack and no other enemies are around. and it seems like a reasonably fair fight Ask before you pounce.
In the middle of a furball. anything goes. Just kill em all.
With bombers. Anyone can kill em. I've never had anyone complain about me stealing a bomber kill.
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if you see me, please don't fly in between me and my target blocking my shot and clearing my 12 unless i ask , if i need help I'll call :salute
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"Hey do you need help with that ________?"
Its too easy to ask that over vox, if he answers respond accordingly....if he doesn't help him out when he gets in trouble.
If there is already 3 guys jumping 1 plane......your not needed.
Don't HO...Doesn't help anyone.
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"Hey do you need help with that ________?"
Its too easy to ask that over vox, if he answers respond accordingly....if he doesn't help him out when he gets in trouble.
If there is already 3 guys jumping 1 plane......your not needed.
Don't HO...Doesn't help anyone.
That's what i do it's called common courtesy, the translation has been lost in today's world
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I remember A fight one of those days I wasa just on, fought 4 I believe killed all four was bingo and headed home a 38 who was hovering above but diddnt interfere, swopped down I thought I was dead, he wiggled his wings and banked away. I was impressed. Lawnmower I think his name was. Instant respect list.
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I remember A fight one of those days I wasa just on, fought 4 I believe killed all four was bingo and headed home a 38 who was hovering above but diddnt interfere, swopped down I thought I was dead, he wiggled his wings and banked away. I was impressed. Lawnmower I think his name was. Instant respect list.
Yeah but you left out the part where you thought you reversed him and shot him as he passed by.
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Yeah but you left out the part where you thought you reversed him and shot him as he passed by.
Lolz.
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Whenever people ask me if I need help my answer would be no but I'm usually too busy to answer.
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billyD.....huh???? trying to make sence out of that, I guess grizz got it.....lets see gonna have to go reread it.....
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im a paranoid bastage,(dont mean they aint watchin me) diddnt I say I was bingo........:-P
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Whenever people ask me if I need help my answer would be no but I'm usually too busy to answer.
U should see Tec. He only texts in the game and can carry on an entire conversation about ice fishing while he is in a turn fight with two peeps at once.
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I always try to give the friendly guy a heads up on range vox, "yo, (insert name), I see you, Im dropping in". No reply I figure I'm good and I know he now knows he is about to get help and can act accordingly. If I get an "I'm ok with this guy", or something like that then I just hover and watch.
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I fall down a lot...
The point of the OP is to get a range of opinions on the subject.
That was my opinion on the subject ;)
Its like asking a boxer that has been going 12 rounds if it is OK to come in and through the winning punch or help him not get knocked out. Do you really need to ask what the range of opinions is there? As I said, we all know, we just play dumb ;)
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Lots of good answers so far. Your original post has good examples of proper thinking. My two cents is that there are no rules, just thoughtfulness, which is best backed up by checking on the radio. Folks talking on range about who is on which bandit, who is covering who, and what new threats are in the area, are IMHO, the best folks to fly with. That kind of behavior will lead to more effective killing/victories and a lot les confusion/frustration/conflict among the friendlies. And in the end probably a better time for the bandits as well.
Good radio communication clears up most issues, and is contagious Others learn from your example and will follow suit. Sounds like you are off to a great start. :aok
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I seem to default to the same rules. Ask the guy, no response: Kill the con if the friendly is losing. If I know the person and they're in it for the fight, then I'll stay out even if it means they die.
If they give an answer then the choice is obvious.
If it's a squad mate then it is imperative I kill the enemy before them, the importance is tripled if it is Del on the guy's six.