Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Randy1 on September 02, 2014, 07:07:18 AM
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In the P-38 manual the fuel tank selection is Aux for the first 15 minutes to create room for carburetor vapor not plane balance. Then you start working on the wing tanks. AH auto fuel tank selection starts with the Aux tanks as well then LM RM albeit AH does not need to make room for the vapors.
In my first attempts at manual tank selection I have run out of fuel twice in the heat of battle because I failed to switch tanks.
In general or plane specific, is manual fuel tank selection a good task to master? Does it really make a difference in AH?
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It is plane dependent. For the P-47, you have a small aux tank that is rarely damaged and a large main tank that is frequently damaged. The normal order burns the aux tank first, leaving you with no reserve when your main tank gets holed.
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It's useful for manipulating the CG to make your aircraft perform to your liking.
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It's useful for manipulating the CG to make your aircraft perform to your liking.
Skyr, I probably need to go in offline practice and run a few test on things like roll rate.
It is plane dependent. For the P-47, you have a small aux tank that is rarely damaged and a large main tank that is frequently damaged. The normal order burns the aux tank first, leaving you with no reserve when your main tank gets holed.
Caldera, that is a good point on the 47.
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Manual tank selection can make A HUGE difference depending on the plane. in the Spits, there are a top and bottom tank, (and wing tanks in the 8). I burn the wings first, as they are easily damaged. then burn the top, to lower my center of gravity. sometimes i'll leave 1/4 in the top as a reserve cause I have a tendency to ignore the gauge while engaged. In planes that have wing tanks, and torque issues (like corsairs) you want to burn the wings first, and Leave 1/4 to 1/8 in the wing opposite the engine torque to help counter it. then switch to main.
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Manual tank selection can make A HUGE difference depending on the plane. in the Spits, there are a top and bottom tank, (and wing tanks in the 8). I burn the wings first, as they are easily damaged. then burn the top, to lower my center of gravity. sometimes i'll leave 1/4 in the top as a reserve cause I have a tendency to ignore the gauge while engaged. In planes that have wing tanks, and torque issues (like corsairs) you want to burn the wings first, and Leave 1/4 to 1/8 in the wing opposite the engine torque to help counter it. then switch to main.
Now I ask you, what Combat/Flight Sim allows you to perform such specific, Aircraft specific actions? None that I know of.
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It is plane dependent. For the P-47, you have a small aux tank that is rarely damaged and a large main tank that is frequently damaged. The normal order burns the aux tank first, leaving you with no reserve when your main tank gets holed.
this!!!!
I fly the jug M and D-40 full of fuel and switch on take off to main,, gives me a 10 minute reserve with the aux tank! just recently, I got hit in both tanks,, I don't remember that ever happening before but even so, I flew for almost ten minutes!
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In the P-38, it's best to leave it at auto-fuel instead of doing it manually.
ack-ack
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I have a related question about fuel tank and tanks leaking. Does the AH damage model take into account the self-sealing tanks that many of our aircraft had?
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I have a related question about fuel tank and tanks leaking. Does the AH damage model take into account the self-sealing tanks that many of our aircraft had?
It does in terms of the damage model, although by only making it less likely to spring a leak (or catch on fire) when taking damage to the region of a fuel tank, and then also in how fast you're loosing fuel out of the leak (I notice smaller bullets to planes with self sealing tanks can sometimes result in a slower leak, but it is as random as it is reliable). So it's numbers as applied within the model I think: a lower percentage for damage to that component, a longer time for it to drain sometimes.
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In the P-38, it's best to leave it at auto-fuel instead of doing it manually.
ack-ack
So far I can't tell a big difference. I will follow your advice on the 38 and go auto. Beats running out of fuel at the most embarrassing times.
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In the 190-d ALWAYS select front tank first and keep the rear as reserve. Unless you take 100% then I drain the rear at least halfway.
The front tank will get shot out first leaving you with no fuel if you ran out the rear when leaving fuel on auto. This is most noticeable when hit by ack. :eek:
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In the 190-d ALWAYS select front tank first and keep the rear as reserve. Unless you take 100% then I drain the rear at least halfway.
The front tank will get shot out first leaving you with no fuel if you ran out the rear when leaving fuel on auto. This is most noticeable when hit by ack. :eek:
that happens me alot lately...
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this!!!!
I fly the jug M and D-40 full of fuel and switch on take off to main,, gives me a 10 minute reserve with the aux tank! just recently, I got hit in both tanks,, I don't remember that ever happening before but even so, I flew for almost ten minutes!
I find that a full aux tank in the P47 makes it a little more difficult to control in stalling maneuvers. If I leave fuel in the AUX it is no more than 25% - this can still carry you quite a long way if you can fly at reduced RPM (i.e. disengage from combat before the main tank runs dry).
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In the 190-d ALWAYS select front tank first and keep the rear as reserve. Unless you take 100% then I drain the rear at least halfway.
The front tank will get shot out first leaving you with no fuel if you ran out the rear when leaving fuel on auto. This is most noticeable when hit by ack. :eek:
I think burning off the front will leave you a little more maneuverable but more marginally stable as well. As for anything with wing tanks, generally, it helps to burn 'em early because the decrease in roll inertia will significantly help in the break.
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Manual tank selection is like manual trim I have found out in that it takes a bit of practice to make it second nature. I use manual trim all of the time now. Manual tank selection on the two planes I fly most, the 38 and 47 do not seem to gain much with manual tank selection from the replies I have received.
For now it is back to auto tank selection.
One thing I did learn from manual is good understanding of the auto tank rotation. This helps when checking the gauge for remaining fuel. I know if it is on the LM as an example, I know the aux is empty and because the tanks change often, the gauge is right wither it is LM or RM.
Thanks for all the replies.
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It is plane dependent. For the P-47, you have a small aux tank that is rarely damaged and a large main tank that is frequently damaged. The normal order burns the aux tank first, leaving you with no reserve when your main tank gets holed.
Hmm... thanx for this..
Wrngway
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In the 190-d ALWAYS select front tank first and keep the rear as reserve. Unless you take 100% then I drain the rear at least halfway.
The front tank will get shot out first leaving you with no fuel if you ran out the rear when leaving fuel on auto. This is most noticeable when hit by ack. :eek:
Is this optimal for the 190 from a CG/handling perspective? I had always assumed that it would be better to burn the aft tank first.
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Is this optimal for the 190 from a CG/handling perspective? I had always assumed that it would be better to burn the aft tank first.
I think you are right from a center of gravity point of veiw. You can burn the aft down to 1/4 and still have enough to make it back to a friendly base if not too far. I would still keep some in the aft tank because handling really goes away when the engine cuts out. :uhoh
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It is plane dependent. For the P-47, you have a small aux tank that is rarely damaged and a large main tank that is frequently damaged. The normal order burns the aux tank first, leaving you with no reserve when your main tank gets holed.
:aok exactly
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I find that a full aux tank in the P47 makes it a little more difficult to control in stalling maneuvers. If I leave fuel in the AUX it is no more than 25% - this can still carry you quite a long way if you can fly at reduced RPM (i.e. disengage from combat before the main tank runs dry).
I haven't noticed that but I am now curious. I will pay attention for a few sorties and see. Thanks mate
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It seems to help the stability of the Ta152 to burn the aft tank first if you take over 50% fuel....not that the 152 can be considered stable even with it burned, but it helps. ;)
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I primarily fly the Fw-190A5 and -D9. With both birds, I always burn the 'forward' tank down to 50% then shift back into automatic burn. I always take the drop tank as well, which means when I shift to automatic it will burn the drop tank, then to 'auxiliary,' then to 'forward.' When I get to 'forward' I have roughly 10 minutes to disengage and land.
With the 'forward' tank full the 190 is relatively unstable when it comes to firing. You will notice the nose porpoising around at key moments. Drop the 'forward' fuel to 50% and it is much more stable.
Similar discussion with the PonyD. With the 'auxiliary' tank full ACM habits are rough. Once you have burned the 'auxiliary tank to empty the PonyD is pretty agile. The difference between the burn of the 190 and PonyD is that the 'auxillary' tank is the first one to burn in both birds. Stay in auto mode with the PonyD, shift tanks in the 190.
The Ta-152 is a different story, or so I am told.
Boo
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I believe the auto fuel tank selection is based on maintaining the proper CG for the aircraft. As mentioned there are good reasons to keep a little fuel in reserve in an separate tank.
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I believe the auto fuel tank selection is based on maintaining the proper CG for the aircraft. As mentioned there are good reasons to keep a little fuel in reserve in an separate tank.
No, not in every plane. The P-38 pulls fuel out of the aux to make room for carburetor venting. The tanks are ran for 15 minutes then switched to drain the mains.
Why would you call a tank an auxiliary if you drain it first?
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Randy I think you're confusing Aces High auto fuel selection with the recommendations for real aircraft.
The P-38G has main and reserve tanks. The L and later J models add wing tanks. In AH the reserve tank is labeled A, presumably for aux tank.
The wing tanks are apparently combined with either the aux or main tanks. I haven't tested to find out which one.
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Randy I think you're confusing Aces High auto fuel selection with the recommendations for real aircraft.
My point was although it might have been vague, is that draining the aux first in a P38 is not for plane cg purpose in AH or in real life.
With balls to the wall, in AH with 75% fuel the aux tank will be just about empty in fifteen minutes. Of course in real life full throttle for the first fifteen minutes would not be the case in a noncombat situation.
What would be nice albeit a low priority would be in in AH for the 38 would be an auto tanks selection would be to start with the main tanks then aux. Or maybe a scaled back real life model with say 5 minutes on the aux then auto switch to the mains.
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Does the CG to center of lift improve or get worse when the aux tank is burned first?
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Does the CG to center of lift improve or get worse when the aux tank is burned first?
I would say no. Draining the wing tanks would seem to make the most difference in a J in real life but in AH Ak-Ak post no advantage. Hard to argue with Ak-Ak on a P-38 AH question. I go with his answer.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Zhr0dOODb7w/VBNTompVQTI/AAAAAAAACcA/KV0J8_iQETk/s1600/lockheed-p-38-lightning-cutaway-drawing.jpg)
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According to HiTech, IIRC, the auto fuel selection sequence is coded to maintain the CG.
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There may be reasons to manually switch fuel tanks but it's not going to give you a noticeable edge in performance or suddenly make you an ace. If you can't overcome what slight differences might exist you have bigger problems.
I just leave every plane on auto switching.
Also, FLS is correct, the auto switching is programmed to maintain balance.
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Yeah I remember HTC stating that auto fuel tank select switches automatically to maintain cg. I just wanted to add that drop tanks do not take damage.
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There may be reasons to manually switch fuel tanks but it's not going to give you a noticeable edge in performance or suddenly make you an ace. If you can't overcome what slight differences might exist you have bigger problems.
Agreed.
Reminds me of the people who shoot off all their .30 caliber ammunition as soon as they take off, to save weight.
- oldman
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There may be reasons to manually switch fuel tanks but it's not going to give you a noticeable edge in performance or suddenly make you an ace. If you can't overcome what slight differences might exist you have bigger problems.
I just leave every plane on auto switching.
Also, FLS is correct, the auto switching is programmed to maintain balance.
In some cases though it is plane dependent. IIRC, it's recommended to drain the tank aft of the cockpit first in the Mustang.
ack-ack
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In some cases though it is plane dependent. IIRC, it's recommended to drain the tank aft of the cockpit first in the Mustang.
ack-ack
Unless you have drop tanks the aux tank is auto drained first on the P-51. Since it switches based on CG the sequence varies with aircraft.
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I like to change fuel tanks before they run dry. I get shot a lot and this helps me make it back home.
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In B-17 i always burn down AUX tank to almost empty first of all. Its the one getting hit 90% of the time and it had saved many missions when only a few gallons leak out of the already empty tank.
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In some cases though it is plane dependent. IIRC, it's recommended to drain the tank aft of the cockpit first in the Mustang.
ack-ack
You are correct. It improves the C.G. and performance. If memory serves correctly, the pilot's manual recommends leaving 25 gals in the fuselage tank for optimum performance.
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In the 152 I drain the FWD tank dry once LW and RW hit 25% to save me when I get a fuel leak, it makes it slightly more unstable (or so it feels) but that can be used to your advantage.