Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Open Beta Test => Topic started by: TheRapier on September 05, 2016, 10:46:04 PM
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Use TIR and can't lock my head in the forward view or look around the armor plate at all, no matter how far I lean out to the side. I've messed with TIR and AHIII and nada. Worked fine in AHII.
Figure someone must have worked this out :).
Thanks!
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Hmmm...I think mine worked without doing anything extra. Ive had it not register that the game was on but that happend a few times on AH2 also. Your profile didnt get switched did it?
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Thanks Pluto!
I can look around fine in TIR. I just can't hold my head in forward view to see where the bullets should go. Makes shooting difficult. :)
I can't figure out how to look back at all. Right now its worse than the AW mirror view. At least then you saw something. This is like having a wall behind your head. If that was how it was in WWII they never would have made bubble canopies for anything. :)
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Do you have tir relative view(I think that is what it's called) checked?
:salute
Sik
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It's very easy to create a "deadband" so you look forward in all axis within a couple of degrees, using the trackir program.
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What FOV are you using? Just a thought.
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YES! I had same problem as you. I used a look forward key to look around the nose in fights. AH2 view keys locked you to that view until you let up on key. To solve this I just set some dead zone in the curve section in TIR. Its pretty easy to find the true forward around nose position, as its in the dead zone. Hope this helped, if not, I can explain it more. Oh, the locking of views worked, up to and before we got the latest patch in beta. Guess it just carried over into AH3
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Thanks Pluto!
I can look around fine in TIR. I just can't hold my head in forward view to see where the bullets should go. Makes shooting difficult. :)
I can't figure out how to look back at all. Right now its worse than the AW mirror view. At least then you saw something. This is like having a wall behind your head. If that was how it was in WWII they never would have made bubble canopies for anything. :)
You should set your "X curves in TIR to a pretty fast movement. I have it set up like that and it works great. Just lean ato one side or the other. It does get confusing to keep upi with trailing cons, as leaning left and turning head shifts view to right side looking back.
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I just now discovered that my mic boom was interfering with my TIR boom......... doh :o Sorry, HiTech I was reporting that TIR was sticking as I looked down and tried to rotate through the cockpit. Just now discovered that the mic boom was positioned in the way. So, I am going to move one boom or the other to reversed side (whichever is the easiest to reconfigure).
Maybe this would be useful to some other TIR users.... but most likely only noob like me would have that problem.... :aok fixed!
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I am having a problem also with TIR. This is only with some of the f4u models. I feel like something was changed from AH2 to AH3. Every view in AH2 worked fine but with AH3 I can't get the x view to work correctly. My ingame head position just stays the same no matter how far I lean to the left or right. In every other plane I have tried it works correctly, only not in the Corsairs. The f4u-1 works correctly but as soon as I hop in a 1A or D it doesn't work. And it should work exactly the same as I have changed nothing from one plane to the next. I hope that someone can figure this out.
Coot
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Thanks Pluto!
I can look around fine in TIR. I just can't hold my head in forward view to see where the bullets should go. Makes shooting difficult. :)
I can't figure out how to look back at all. Right now its worse than the AW mirror view. At least then you saw something. This is like having a wall behind your head. If that was how it was in WWII they never would have made bubble canopies for anything. :)
TIR works the same for me in AH3 but in AH2 the forward view would not over-ride the TIR like the other views do. Rear views and head movement still works the same. Did you copy your entire settings folder from AH2?
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In AH2 did you have your 12 o clock POV set to forward or Up/Forward?
If you set your AH3 12 o clock POV to forward then it should over ride TIR. If you set any other button to become the forward view (provided its a press and hold down suitable button) then it should also over ride TIR
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How views work with TIR has changed in AH3.
Your view keys no longer overide the TIR, instead it sets your body position with a view key.
So if you press left, you can still transpose and rotate your view with your track Ir as if your body was turned left.
HiTech
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Thanks all the suggestions! I will try them out.
Just a thought though. I'm wondering what is the gain? What is the particular advantage of the new system that makes it a desirable change from the old? In the old system you just leaned out to the side and looked, no touching of keys. It seems under this system you hit the left key and turn. Isn't that one added key press?
It seems that which control overrides which control is an ordering issue. Just change the order and voila! there is no adaptation time or effort from AHII to AHIII. Seems like a win-win.
Much appreciated!
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Thanks all the suggestions! I will try them out.
Just a thought though. I'm wondering what is the gain? What is the particular advantage of the new system that makes it a desirable change from the old? In the old system you just leaned out to the side and looked, no touching of keys. It seems under this system you hit the left key and turn. Isn't that one added key press?
It seems that which control overrides which control is an ordering issue. Just change the order and voila! there is no adaptation time or effort from AHII to AHIII. Seems like a win-win.
Much appreciated!
Before when you looked left it was a fixed view that only allowed head position movement. Now when you look left you can look around and see more of your surroundings as well as move your head position.
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Wow, some of you guys are describing TIR in ways I cant seem to imagine. I have to do ABSOLUTELY nothing with key boards or stick buttons. Its just like looking around out of game...look forward- look front hold still, look back- turn head till full back look position. look back up/turn to full back tilt head up. Need to look around head rest-lean. Its all in the curves in TIR. No keys needed!!! True you can set keys for some reasons that help for your own style of using TIR,(like forward view while leaning around nose of plane in AH2) but it IS NOT necessary. I really don't understand why it is so hard to grasp. Even with my squad mates, some liked it and some couldn't get it to work as they thought it should. I am disabled with limited feeling in hands so typing can suck. Same with hitting keys on keyboards and hat switches. My hat is off to those who mastered this game having to use keys and hat switches! That to me seems like a miraculous achievement!! The only curve I don't use is roll. I also don't use Trueview,in TIR, or Object relative in game. Head positions can still be set with TIR,you just need to pause the TrackIR. Pause it, adjust your head position, F10, and un pause...VOILA! This is in forward view only for my set up,btw. All curves can be used to maximize effect of body movement, depending on how much exercise you wish to do. So if you are like me, and this game consumes all your free time? Watch what you eat, this will be the most exercise you will get!
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Wow, some of you guys are describing TIR in ways I cant seem to imagine. I have to do ABSOLUTELY nothing with key boards or stick buttons. Its just like looking around out of game...look forward- look front hold still, look back- turn head till full back look position. look back up/turn to full back tilt head up. Need to look around head rest-lean. Its all in the curves in TIR. No keys needed!!! True you can set keys for some reasons that help for your own style of using TIR,(like forward view while leaning around nose of plane in AH2) but it IS NOT necessary. I really don't understand why it is so hard to grasp. Even with my squad mates, some liked it and some couldn't get it to work as they thought it should. I am disabled with limited feeling in hands so typing can suck. Same with hitting keys on keyboards and hat switches. My hat is off to those who mastered this game having to use keys and hat switches! That to me seems like a miraculous achievement!! The only curve I don't use is roll. I also don't use Trueview,in TIR, or Object relative in game. Head positions can still be set with TIR,you just need to pause the TrackIR. Pause it, adjust your head position, F10, and un pause...VOILA! This is in forward view only for my set up,btw. All curves can be used to maximize effect of body movement, depending on how much exercise you wish to do. So if you are like me, and this game consumes all your free time? Watch what you eat, this will be the most exercise you will get!
The issue is raising your head to see over the nose. The forward view is not over-riding the TIR front view.
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The issue is raising your head to see over the nose. The forward view is not over-riding the TIR front view.
Right! I got that, and asked about it a while/a few patches ago. It has to be reliant on a lean(X) curve in TIR now,instead of a high head position on look forward button setting. I set head position as high as I can and still see gun sight but could set it at max height, I prefer to still see gunsight. Its not quite the same but bridges the gap when used in conjunction with the lean (X) axis in TIR
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Perhaps it could be fixed for the players who want to use it.
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I do not notice any difference in how my TIR performs in II or III
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I do not notice any difference in how my TIR performs in II or III
Right! Its pretty much the same, well in the tracks anyway. Its just that view keys don't overwrite head movement in III. In II if you pushed say 6 on keypad, your view was down the wing to the right,and locked there until you released the 6 key. Now it rotates your body right and head tracking starts with to the right as your NEW look forward position. Turning or tilting your head still works thus no override of TIR. I used a look forwar button on my stick in II to lock my view to an around the nose/side of plane, hit button and no matter what I did with my head it stayed straight down the nose. With III now I just used deadzone to help steady the around the nose view and lean with "X" axis.
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hmmm.
I do not use any view buttons at all, just tracker. I do have an issue with some planes giving odd results, the P47M in AHII and the P51 in AHIII when looking behind and then to the front again however I managed to fix most of that problem by turning off the Y axis in Trackir. Means I cannot look over the nose like I used to but it stops the issue of being stuck in my lap view which is much more of a problem.
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hmmm.
I do not use any view buttons at all, just tracker. I do have an issue with some planes giving odd results, the P47M in AHII and the P51 in AHIII when looking behind and then to the front again however I managed to fix most of that problem by turning off the Y axis in Trackir. Means I cannot look over the nose like I used to but it stops the issue of being stuck in my lap view which is much more of a problem.
This might be why you had transition anomalies. If you turn on the "Y" axis again, check to see if maybe you haven't move your head position back to neutral before turning back around? I have had that happen as weel. I noticed though that even turning to look back Then sit up a bit,looks different if you sit up higher THEN look back. Its same with the "Z" axis. If I leaned back to see more cockpit gauges and didn't go back to neutral, the seat back was a whole lot closer than if I had done the reverse first.
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I am using TrackIR and I think AH3 handles TIR the best out of any game I have ever played! I have my FOV set to 90 in AH3. My TrackIR is set to smooth profile One:One. I suggest only having Yaw and Pitch enabled (checked) and to uncheck the rest. No reason to roll or look with the other axis since AH3 did a good job of forcing the view over the nose and giving you a good look outside the plane when looking front/left, or front/right. Very snappy too!
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I agree, it works great, but I use TIR only with no view buttons or hat switches involved. Never could get that down. All my hat switches are for other things. With adjustment you can get very precise head controls to cover every view possible without other buttons. Its all in the curves. Of coarse I don't have the muscle memory of playing AH with hat switch views only, so it was hard to compete with the long time players, until I found TIR!
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I've had to up my light filter threshold to 175 due to the game's light effects "transient lighting" reflecting off my glasses lenses. I thought the game was having TIR problems with random view direction glitches. Some of the light effects from the monitor are very bright and caused the random direction changes.
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I've had to up my light filter threshold to 175 due to the game's light effects "transient lighting" reflecting off my glasses lenses. I thought the game was having TIR problems with random view direction glitches. Some of the light effects from the monitor are very bright and caused the random direction changes.
Dang it BUSTR! There ya go again, finding fixes to same problems I have!!! I have never heard of this either. Is it a monitor setting or a graphics card setting, and where can I find it! The last fix with invidia and HDMI was a life saver,maybe can have another one
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Camera tab in the TIR software when you start it up.
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I find TIR weird when using external view.
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I find TIR weird when using external view.
I enjoy it when trying to taxi to the re-arm. I no longer have to use a set key to look up and over the nose when trying to taxi to the rearm and avoid the buildings. Also helps when landing goons to maneuver around trees.
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Just started using TIR. One thing I'm noticing is the head position for different views appears to be independent of my saved positions. For instance, without TIR my "look back" position in the N1K2 is moved forward so that I can see quite a lot around the headrest. With TIR enabled, the "look back" position is right up against the headrest so that I have to physically move my head to see around it (and then can't see as much as with no TIR).
Is this correct, or am I missing something?
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Just started using TIR. One thing I'm noticing is the head position for different views appears to be independent of my saved positions. For instance, without TIR my "look back" position in the N1K2 is moved forward so that I can see quite a lot around the headrest. With TIR enabled, the "look back" position is right up against the headrest so that I have to physically move my head to see around it (and then can't see as much as with no TIR).
Is this correct, or am I missing something?
That is correct behavior. When you scale the response curves in TIR you can easily get good views around the headrest. You can also disable the TIR axis except pitch and yaw and it will use your saved head positions but I prefer everything on except roll.
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I'll try the "pitch and yaw only" setup. Thanks! :aok
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I could never get the hang of AH hat switch views. I still cant wrap my head around why, when you have 6 axis of head tracking, you would still want to use hat switches for head placement settings. I know, its what most are use too. I use TIR only,not a single button or hat switch for views. It is just natural for me, turn head left look left, ect ect. To look around head rest Z axis curves are set to fairly fast. Lean a wee bit left or right and no head rest. Every curve in TIR is programmable. You can even set curves to be slower in response to head movement (dead zones) for first 110 degrees of movement, and then fast for the remainder till 180. Or just twitch head left and look at seat back. Every point along a given axis's curve is programmable. Like I said before, for me, TIR is just way more natural for me then using hat switches. Not saying my way is best, to each their own, but with a bit of tinkering its just like real life. Hard to understand how anyone would have un enjoyable experience with TIR. I really LOVE it. It was a life saver. I hear folk say they lose cons in dog fights, and don't get that either. I can keep track of any thing with extremely small head movements. Yes it requires some effort to program it to your specific needs, but it is well worth it. It just befuddles my mind as to why you wouldn't use the totality of the TIR system. Oh, they make a Trackclip to mount on a headset,if you don't like hats. It is way more accurate at tracking head movement too! That may be a lot of the issue with dissatisfaction? Even the camera can be placed in numerable different positions to work with just about any set up.Its well worth the extra bucks for the Track clip option,if you don't have it. I always buy that as well, no need to send a TIR system to someone and cut them off at the knees, by not including it. Pretty sure that will cause me to regret that habit...one day!! When he gets it just right anyway! lol
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As I said, I'm new to TIR so haven't developed a good technique with it.
For me, the main difference between TIR and using specific views controlled with the hat is that with TIR I lose a sense of the attitude of my airplane since the TIR view is not "fixed" relative to the airplane as the "hat views" are. I'm guessing that with practice and experience that problem can be overcome, but it's been a frustrating process. Especially since I can switch back to the hat and feel much more in control.
I'm interested to see how the "pitch and yaw only" TIR integrates with the hat views.
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As I said, I'm new to TIR so haven't developed a good technique with it.
For me, the main difference between TIR and using specific views controlled with the hat is that with TIR I lose a sense of the attitude of my airplane since the TIR view is not "fixed" relative to the airplane as the "hat views" are. I'm guessing that with practice and experience that problem can be overcome, but it's been a frustrating process. Especially since I can switch back to the hat and feel much more in control.
I'm interested to see how the "pitch and yaw only" TIR integrates with the hat views.
Right! I get you! In the curves section of TIR, start with the "dead zone" profile or second best for me the"smooth" under the motion adjustment panel, in axis- profiles tab at top of grid. You need to make sure the axis you are setting is the one indicated in the axis tab. With the deadzone profile the view will stay lock a bit before head movement will take effect. I use this deadzone profile in all axis to some degree or another, but its my starting point. Its set to pretty long delay in both YAW and PITCH. In Y I have the mirror unchecked so as to get slower response in sitting up or crouching(one to one )works ok as well. in X I have a small amoumt of dead zone but after that its really fast thru points along the curve, a slight lean and my in game lean is around 25 degrees, it isn't that far in game as cockpit will stop you, this makes it easy to look around nose or head rest with minimal chair yoga. Z is one to one for me, I don't use it as much, its zoom pretty much, lean forward or back, can help if head is set too close to instruments or headrest. I do not use the ROLL or true view. maybe this will help when you get around to setting your curves. In my center view,in game, I pause the TIR and scoot head about 2 or 3 touches on the up arrow, and as many pgup's till my gunsight is just under half way to top of reticle. This sets a descent back view distance from head rest.
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An easy way to show how my curves work is this. In the Motion adjust tab where you see Axis box and profile box then the individual axis boxes? Pitch is selected.Mirror is checked then in the x y point boxes set the points to theses values, I am working from the NEGATIVE sid of the X graph,with mirror the other side will set by default: center or point zero set x to 0.0 y 0.0, point 1 set x-4.0 ,y0.0 other side of curve will automatically set as+ 4 , 0 : point 2 x -6.5 . 3.6 y point 3 x -22.5 , y 6.0 point 4 x -30 , y 6.0. it will look like a wild curve way different from the base curves. but its how I have mine and may help out when you get around to experimenting with your own curves. You can in put the numbers into the boxes directly as long as you click on the corresponding dot on graph. so click on points in graph(left side of graph) and these values will set it up like I have it
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Thanks for the info, I'll check out your curve.
But first...
I tried the "pitch and yaw only" TIR and it was VERY jerky. Seemed like it was shifting from one static view to the next. So, okay that didn't work. Reset to my original curves with all DoF enabled and THEY are now jerky. Not as bad as the P&YO, but not the smooth panning I had before. Online and offline. Even flying around without TIR turned on is now jerky. Not sure what to think. Is it possible that the trying the P&YO TIR has somehow corrupted the AH video interface? :bhead
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I wouldn't think so? The in game view system may have changed, as in VIEW MODE I believe its called? CONTROL I, where you see in game FPS. Pretty sure you know what I mean, you have been here longer than I,lol. It changes in my setup a lot, mainly from hitting the wrong buttons. I use to use the default Pause key with TIR which was F9, and changed view system from instant to pan. Could be the problem.?
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Thanks for the info, I'll check out your curve.
But first...
I tried the "pitch and yaw only" TIR and it was VERY jerky. Seemed like it was shifting from one static view to the next. So, okay that didn't work. Reset to my original curves with all DoF enabled and THEY are now jerky. Not as bad as the P&YO, but not the smooth panning I had before. Online and offline. Even flying around without TIR turned on is now jerky. Not sure what to think. Is it possible that the trying the P&YO TIR has somehow corrupted the AH video interface? :bhead
Could it be using snap views?
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Thanks for the info, I'll check out your curve.
But first...
I tried the "pitch and yaw only" TIR and it was VERY jerky. Seemed like it was shifting from one static view to the next. So, okay that didn't work. Reset to my original curves with all DoF enabled and THEY are now jerky. Not as bad as the P&YO, but not the smooth panning I had before. Online and offline. Even flying around without TIR turned on is now jerky. Not sure what to think. Is it possible that the trying the P&YO TIR has somehow corrupted the AH video interface? :bhead
Let's fix the jerky issue first. This would seem like a TIR issue rather than an in game one. I would be checking for:
- Are there any light sources affecting TIR? Look at the camera view in TIR and all you should see is the 3 dots for your clip reflectors. If you see any other reflections in that view they can cause interference and make it appear jerky. Eliminate the other light source or play with the sensitivity settings in TIR to filter it out
- Are you moving your head in such a manner that the tracking is lost? Look at the light on the left of the TIR sensor on top of your monitor. Notice if you look up too much the light will go out, meaning you have moved to an extent the sensor loses contact with the clip reflectors. That will cause freezes in game views.
I have tried many TIR profiles and none of them are inherently jerky which is why I think it is a set up issue rather than a game issue.
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Yes!! That would definitely cause the "JERKY"! I didn't go there first,probably should have. I was going by the 2 axis use, still using hat switch, on snap it caused jumping and jerking for me, so I assumed. I know, nice pick up FESS! Assuming is like trusting a fart, ought to know better by now! lol
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I agree, it works great, but I use TIR only with no view buttons or hat switches involved. Never could get that down. All my hat switches are for other things. With adjustment you can get very precise head controls to cover every view possible without other buttons. Its all in the curves. Of coarse I don't have the muscle memory of playing AH with hat switch views only, so it was hard to compete with the long time players, until I found TIR!
I am the same way. I grew up in the 90's using hat switches, and they were great back then. But now I couldn't imagine using them to look. I actually try playing once in a while without the TrackIR on, and when I make a turn I get dizzy because I am so used to peeking slightly left with my head to see forward/left on a turn that when the screen doesnt move I get dizzy.
I programmed hat switch up to autopilot climb mode, hat switch down autopilot level. hat switch left - right is flaps up - down. Some people use the hat switch as a trim tab if not using combat trim, which I believe is how certain real world aircraft operate.
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I am the same way. I grew up in the 90's using hat switches, and they were great back then. But now I couldn't imagine using them to look. I actually try playing once in a while without the TrackIR on, and when I make a turn I get dizzy because I am so used to peeking slightly left with my head to see forward/left on a turn that when the screen doesnt move I get dizzy.
I programmed hat switch up to autopilot climb mode, hat switch down autopilot level. hat switch left - right is flaps up - down. Some people use the hat switch as a trim tab if not using combat trim, which I believe is how certain real world aircraft operate.
ABSOLUTELY! Have you exited out of the game, to turn on TIR after take-off? In a DUCE!!!!! I have...cant leave home with out it. I know....DUMBASH!!! I hear that a lot, cant see flying without it, from a lot of guys. The ones who use it like we do anyway. Even some on my squad couldn't get into it, but those that did...lets just say trouble has happened. Somehow SQUAD LEADER even forgot to turn it on for an FSO frame, oops. Luckily he caught it before the fields closed lol Seems more of the long time players are the ones who dislike it. I am almost ready to give VR a try. I see a few complaints but hope its the same situation with some and TIR. Just adverse to change!
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Sorry, have been fighting with some graphics card issues. Now I can look at this again.
My apologies, maybe I'm not getting how people are setting this, but I'm not at all seeing yet how this system is an improvement over the AHII system of the view key over riding the TIR. The ordering seems contrived and leaves it so there is NO reason to have view keys programmed at all. I started flying with the view keys back on AW in 1990 and I can still fall back to them easily. They are really a MMO flying sim standard. I use it for shooting and I use it for when TIR fails (as it will) during a critical moment. TIR is helpful for immersion but it definitely doesn't make you a better pilot until you equate head position to where you are looking from the plane.
I have tried FLS's idea of holding the right or left key to look around the headrest but its not working at all. I might as well have my head buried in a can for all the view that is possible. All you see is dark. How are you setting the rear view/X axis to get the movement? It will start to move outward and then just snap back to the center of the headrest, negating the whole point of TIR. Right now it seems like TIR's main functionality is ogling the landscape but it really should help you look around and fly the plane as a weapon. Don't get me wrong, I like the beauty of what I'm seeing but my appreciation would be much greater if I could hit what I was aiming at or see what was going to shoot me :).
View forward is equally hopeless for different reasons. It is almost impossible to hold my head absolutely still so that I have anything that looks like a gunsight. If you can't tell where the bullets are going you really can't be very accurate in gunnery. Try shooting a rifle without any sights or even a barrel to look down. That is what shooting is like now. Also, the guns appear to shoot very high from where they were in AHII.
So two questions would help me to understand how the view system is supposed to work:
- How do you accomplish looking around a headrest in the rear view, i.e. how to you lean out to the side?
:). - How do you lock your head in a forward view so you can have a gunsight? Tiny variations in head movement put the center in the next county. You are left using the guns like a water hose and walking the stream into the target. That is super inefficient
I'm sure that the game would be much more enjoyable if these things can be figured out. Right now all the eye candy in the world can't make up for the functionality. I'm looking forward to figuring out how that works so that I can let other folks know.
Thanks!
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I have tried FLS's idea of holding the right or left key to look around the headrest but its not working at all.
While it's possible to look back or forward holding the left or right view key with the new system I don't advocate it. That was simply a description of the difference with the old system. What I advise is leaning left or right before looking back with the rear view key.
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Rapier,
- Looking around the headrest - the trick here is to turn then lean. It actually is very easy to do one you have the hang of it. Try to be smooth, I find the more excitable I get with my head movement the less accurate the response.
- Locking forward view - The best way to achieve this is build in a small deadzone in your curve. It will snap your view to the forward view and only break that once you move past your deadzone.
I have to say there are little glitches in AH3 with the TIR but you should be able to get better functionality than you are reporting.
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Once I found the Relative view checkbox(it has moved to the VR settings area) all my TIR problems have cleared up.
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Once I found the Relative view checkbox(it has moved to the VR settings area) all my TIR problems have cleared up.
What does "relative view" do?
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Makes the head movements relative toyour perspective as apposed to the vehicles I believe. When it is unchecked leaning side to side while looking any direction but forwards is confusing.
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What does "relative view" do?
Since your screen does not rotate with you in track IR which way is left and right when looking behind you depends on your mental state.
One way is to see yourself is the chair is the air plane, if you are looking back and left in your chair, you would lean to the left side of the chair to move your head closer to the glass.
The other way is to think that your monitor is the plane so then when looking back left on the monitor you will see the canopy on the right side of the monitor, so you would lean to the right/font side of the chair to move your head closer to the glass.
Which you choose is simply what your mental picture is. There is no write or wrong.
The Object Relative is the 2nd type of view thinking.
HiTech
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Hitech,
Is there a reason why only 2-axis TIR can inherit the HPS file settings for PoV?
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Hitech,
Is there a reason why only 2-axis TIR can inherit the HPS file settings for PoV?
This is all ready changed for the next patch. In the new patch the head origen for both VR and TIR is what is save in the settings.
HiTech
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I did a quick movie. You can see at the start I turn my head and look back normally (turn then lean) and then I do it incorrectly. See how that ends up looking into the seat. After that I fly around and turn my head way too often but just to show you it can be done. In my forward view you can see when shooting the view is pretty stable due to a small deadband.
You can see the view jump now and again in the forward view. That is because I have my TIR re-centre button mapped to my stick so if I fee I am out of alignment when lining up shots I can instantly re-centre.
There is an artefact in the P51 which shows as a big dark grey canopy outline. I will post in the bugs section for that.
https://youtu.be/yHRpDeIJSLg (https://youtu.be/yHRpDeIJSLg)
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I did a quick movie. You can see at the start I turn my head and look back normally (turn then lean) and then I do it incorrectly. See how that ends up looking into the seat. After that I fly around and turn my head way too often but just to show you it can be done. In my forward view you can see when shooting the view is pretty stable due to a small deadband.
You can see the view jump now and again in the forward view. That is because I have my TIR re-centre button mapped to my stick so if I fee I am out of alignment when lining up shots I can instantly re-centre.
There is an artefact in the P51 which shows as a big dark grey canopy outline. I will post in the bugs section for that.
https://youtu.be/yHRpDeIJSLg (https://youtu.be/yHRpDeIJSLg)
We just need to adjust the head bounding box on the p51d or any other airplane with the issue.
HiTech
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Nice! Yup, exactly how I use it. Easier to show than describe! That's it though, fellers! Its all about customizing the curves in each axis, to your needs. Deadband goes along way in defeating jerky or unstable viewing! Again, WELL DONE FESS
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I use f7 precision..
Seems to tighten it up
Also try slowing speed and smoothness
Might help
And have a button mapped to center view
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I use TIR and I just discovered the rear view in the P-38G is poorer than either the J or L. I dont seem able to move my head as far forward in the 38G's cockpit before I turn to look behind - I *think* this may be due to the armorplate glass in the G's cockpit, which the J and L do not have?
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Thank for the help for those that posted. I got a chance to look at this and I'm very sorry but its just . . . wrong.
I can look behind my now. That is a relief! However, the way this works is you lean to the left to look out the right side of the canopy and vice versa. This isn't just counter intuitive, its just plain wrong. I've flown bubble canopied sailplanes in real life and that just plain isn't how it works. That is disorienting in the extreme. You should look and lean left to see down the left side all the way to the tail. Same for the right.
Then it is small amounts of turning, with massive amounts of lean to look to the side. The head box just seems very constricting. If you turn around far enough you just look at the headrest no matter how far you lean. That isn't right either. If you have leaned to the point of putting your head on the canopy and turn to see behind, you should see behind. There is just no two ways about it.
As to the forward view, it is impossible to lock your head forward. Keep in mind the differences between a real pilot and computer pilot. A real pilot is strapped into a non-moving chair and so looking forward is relatively constrained. A real pilot has limited movement and finding forward is easy. A computer pilot sits in a rolling and tilting chair and so having zero relative movement between the chair and the TIR sensor is a nice thought but not really achievable. Throw in rudder pedals and body English and keeping the forward view becomes its OWN game with shooting becoming secondary.
A computer pilot needs to be able to lock the view forward to shoot and KNOW that its in the exact right position for shooting right NOW, not hunting around to find the right place.
The aim point and bullet drop seem to be off, particularly compared to AH2. The bullets drop so far that high angle deflection shots are almost impossible since the relative position of the aim point and bullet impact are very disconnected.
I love the eye candy! But control of the view is the game issue. The graphics are beautiful but with these issues, air combat is more like rolling dice than it is about control. Throw in the fact that the game seems to lose the graphics drivers on a regular basis every 20 minutes or so and a person wonders what they are doing with trying to make this work. IMHO, air combat is about precision. The pilot needs to be able to KNOW exactly what they are doing with their computer body in the computer plane and not guess.
It seems very much like the simple solution is to look at the view keys locking the view. Its time honored, having been used for years and the pilot will always KNOW exactly what view they locked to, and not have it wavering around with random head movements. The update doesn't really add anything and actually subtracts from what a computer pilot has to do. You can work around it but it the same way you would work around flying while sitting on a basketball. It can be done but it doesn't really help the experience :).
Thanks!
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The aim point and bullet drop seem to be off, particularly compared to AH2. The bullets drop so far that high angle deflection shots are almost impossible since the relative position of the aim point and bullet impact are very disconnected. . .
I don't think that's right. I made a custom sight a long time ago for hitting at 800 yards with high deflection angles (unloaded) and it works exactly like it did in AH2.
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Thank for the help for those that posted. I got a chance to look at this and I'm very sorry but its just . . . wrong.
I can look behind my now. That is a relief! However, the way this works is you lean to the left to look out the right side of the canopy and vice versa. This isn't just counter intuitive, its just plain wrong. I've flown bubble canopied sailplanes in real life and that just plain isn't how it works. That is disorienting in the extreme. You should look and lean left to see down the left side all the way to the tail. Same for the right.
Then it is small amounts of turning, with massive amounts of lean to look to the side. The head box just seems very constricting. If you turn around far enough you just look at the headrest no matter how far you lean. That isn't right either. If you have leaned to the point of putting your head on the canopy and turn to see behind, you should see behind. There is just no two ways about it.
As to the forward view, it is impossible to lock your head forward. Keep in mind the differences between a real pilot and computer pilot. A real pilot is strapped into a non-moving chair and so looking forward is relatively constrained. A real pilot has limited movement and finding forward is easy. A computer pilot sits in a rolling and tilting chair and so having zero relative movement between the chair and the TIR sensor is a nice thought but not really achievable. Throw in rudder pedals and body English and keeping the forward view becomes its OWN game with shooting becoming secondary.
A computer pilot needs to be able to lock the view forward to shoot and KNOW that its in the exact right position for shooting right NOW, not hunting around to find the right place.
The aim point and bullet drop seem to be off, particularly compared to AH2. The bullets drop so far that high angle deflection shots are almost impossible since the relative position of the aim point and bullet impact are very disconnected.
I love the eye candy! But control of the view is the game issue. The graphics are beautiful but with these issues, air combat is more like rolling dice than it is about control. Throw in the fact that the game seems to lose the graphics drivers on a regular basis every 20 minutes or so and a person wonders what they are doing with trying to make this work. IMHO, air combat is about precision. The pilot needs to be able to KNOW exactly what they are doing with their computer body in the computer plane and not guess.
It seems very much like the simple solution is to look at the view keys locking the view. Its time honored, having been used for years and the pilot will always KNOW exactly what view they locked to, and not have it wavering around with random head movements. The update doesn't really add anything and actually subtracts from what a computer pilot has to do. You can work around it but it the same way you would work around flying while sitting on a basketball. It can be done but it doesn't really help the experience :).
Thanks!
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Brother, every single view is adjustable in TIR! This isn't a complete flight simulator. It is however just about the best combat simulator out there. True, AH2's view keys I liked, as I used a look forward button to slave views to a dot on my screen and I miss it! Just a bit of dead band solves this problem though. With all the new tech out there, its pretty hard to get a game that can accommodate everyone's desires. Sure the look back view is a bit off setting, but you will get used to it. Pretty sure that this game will never be as close to real life as DCS, and I am fine with that! I don't really need to know how to go through the start up processes before take off. Being that you have "REAL WORLD" experience flying maybe you are expecting a bit too much? This Is only 15 bucks a month, so I am more than willing to give up a few real world situations. Not sure as to where you are coming from when you say ballistics are different? You should have been here for the ALPHA and BETA testing! At least now we have VERY noticeable hit sprites, and ca see the tracers. As to why you cant get TIR set up to suit you, I am befuddled! Looking around the head rest is pretty easy,, Pause TIR and adjust your head placement(for me three clicks) and set your X axis to a fast curve, and you never even see the headrest. Every point in the curves are adjustable, with 6 axis and several other options, I have a hard time understanding why anyone cant figure it out. This will never compare to real life experiences, it is a game! The flight models are spot on, as far as I know. It is still a work in progress, just like AH2. Yes AH2 was a pay to play, but bugs were still found after years of play. This game version has been in testing for about 2 years, and a lot of stuff has been improved. You will just need to adjust your attitude a bit and be willing to adapt! I can send you my settings in TIR, or you can get it from a previous post on this thread, if you like.
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Thank for the help for those that posted. I got a chance to look at this and I'm very sorry but its just . . . wrong.
I can look behind my now. That is a relief! However, the way this works is you lean to the left to look out the right side of the canopy and vice versa. This isn't just counter intuitive, its just plain wrong. I've flown bubble canopied sailplanes in real life and that just plain isn't how it works. That is disorienting in the extreme. You should look and lean left to see down the left side all the way to the tail. Same for the right.
Then it is small amounts of turning, with massive amounts of lean to look to the side. The head box just seems very constricting. If you turn around far enough you just look at the headrest no matter how far you lean. That isn't right either. If you have leaned to the point of putting your head on the canopy and turn to see behind, you should see behind. There is just no two ways about it.
As to the forward view, it is impossible to lock your head forward. Keep in mind the differences between a real pilot and computer pilot. A real pilot is strapped into a non-moving chair and so looking forward is relatively constrained. A real pilot has limited movement and finding forward is easy. A computer pilot sits in a rolling and tilting chair and so having zero relative movement between the chair and the TIR sensor is a nice thought but not really achievable. Throw in rudder pedals and body English and keeping the forward view becomes its OWN game with shooting becoming secondary.
A computer pilot needs to be able to lock the view forward to shoot and KNOW that its in the exact right position for shooting right NOW, not hunting around to find the right place.
The aim point and bullet drop seem to be off, particularly compared to AH2. The bullets drop so far that high angle deflection shots are almost impossible since the relative position of the aim point and bullet impact are very disconnected.
I love the eye candy! But control of the view is the game issue. The graphics are beautiful but with these issues, air combat is more like rolling dice than it is about control. Throw in the fact that the game seems to lose the graphics drivers on a regular basis every 20 minutes or so and a person wonders what they are doing with trying to make this work. IMHO, air combat is about precision. The pilot needs to be able to KNOW exactly what they are doing with their computer body in the computer plane and not guess.
It seems very much like the simple solution is to look at the view keys locking the view. Its time honored, having been used for years and the pilot will always KNOW exactly what view they locked to, and not have it wavering around with random head movements. The update doesn't really add anything and actually subtracts from what a computer pilot has to do. You can work around it but it the same way you would work around flying while sitting on a basketball. It can be done but it doesn't really help the experience :).
Thanks!
!
Some planes just have crappy back visibility! You get way more head motion in the game than you ever would in real life. If you cant get that result, the more head movement) then you are not using TIR to the max! Looks like you are just going with default curve settings? Dead band will keep ypur view steady if you are one of those that just cant let go of the old hat switch ways. I use absolutely NO buttons for views at all
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As far as aim point and ballistics go...you should have been here in the earlier days. Tracers were almost non visible! The gunnery problem is very easy to overcome! Learn to get in close! Outside of 400 yards gunnery gets tricky, especially in a deflection situation. I don't think that is a game issue but more of a pilot problem. I have zero problem getting good results with guns, but this is new graphics engine and some things just look different. WE have visible tracers now and way brighter hit sprites! Tracers may not be as visable as some would like, but seems to me to be a bit more realistic. You need to learn how to shoot here, as watching tracers and adjusting isn't as effective now.
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Oh! One more tidbit. If you will sit in a chair and turn your head as far as you can in any direction and then lean in that direction, do you think you could see a con crossing perpendicular to your flight path? I cant! With TIR it solves this!!! Looking left and leaning left, lets yo see the con as he crosses your flight path from left to right. Then its a simple head neutral, lean right and track him!
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Thank for the help for those that posted. I got a chance to look at this and I'm very sorry but its just . . . wrong.
I can look behind my now. That is a relief! However, the way this works is you lean to the left to look out the right side of the canopy and vice versa. This isn't just counter intuitive, its just plain wrong. I've flown bubble canopied sailplanes in real life and that just plain isn't how it works. That is disorienting in the extreme. You should look and lean left to see down the left side all the way to the tail. Same for the right...
I'm pretty new to TrackIR and am going through the some of the same issues. Here are the instructions that solved my "Look over the right shoulder to see back to the left" problem - its a simple settings change:
In TrackIR under Advanced Settings/Profiles tab in the "Motion Adjustment" section - make sure the "TrueView" box is checked.
In AH3, under Options/Preferences/VR, make sure the "TrackIR Object Relative Move" box is checked.
That will enable you to look back and right by leaning forward and looking back to the right. Same for the left - its back to being intuitive.
Unfortunately, some planes just have terrible 6 views, like the Hellcat and the razorback P-47. Using a hat switch for views, you could enable a head position to optimize the 6 views as much as possible in these aircraft. However with TrackIR, I think its much closer to real life, and that's probably why the bubble-canopy aircraft were such an advancement. I think there's no doubt about it, in some a/c, the realism of TrackIR puts players at a disadvantage compared to those using instant views with a hat switch.
Another tip, I mapped my JS pinkie switch to the 'Center' action in the Hotkeys section of the TrackIR profile. I find I have to recenter my head position for TRackIR often, and have a button on the JS mapped to this function is critical.
A big part of it is just getting accustomed to using TrackIR - my neck still gets sore when I play for an hour or so. Buts its getting better, and the immersion of not having to use hat switch views has me hooked.
<S>!
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Thank for the help for those that posted. I got a chance to look at this and I'm very sorry but its just . . . wrong.
I can look behind my now. That is a relief! However, the way this works is you lean to the left to look out the right side of the canopy and vice versa. This isn't just counter intuitive, its just plain wrong. I've flown bubble canopied sailplanes in real life and that just plain isn't how it works. That is disorienting in the extreme. You should look and lean left to see down the left side all the way to the tail. Same for the right.
Then it is small amounts of turning, with massive amounts of lean to look to the side. The head box just seems very constricting. If you turn around far enough you just look at the headrest no matter how far you lean. That isn't right either. If you have leaned to the point of putting your head on the canopy and turn to see behind, you should see behind. There is just no two ways about it.
As to the forward view, it is impossible to lock your head forward. Keep in mind the differences between a real pilot and computer pilot. A real pilot is strapped into a non-moving chair and so looking forward is relatively constrained. A real pilot has limited movement and finding forward is easy. A computer pilot sits in a rolling and tilting chair and so having zero relative movement between the chair and the TIR sensor is a nice thought but not really achievable. Throw in rudder pedals and body English and keeping the forward view becomes its OWN game with shooting becoming secondary.
A computer pilot needs to be able to lock the view forward to shoot and KNOW that its in the exact right position for shooting right NOW, not hunting around to find the right place.
The aim point and bullet drop seem to be off, particularly compared to AH2. The bullets drop so far that high angle deflection shots are almost impossible since the relative position of the aim point and bullet impact are very disconnected.
I love the eye candy! But control of the view is the game issue. The graphics are beautiful but with these issues, air combat is more like rolling dice than it is about control. Throw in the fact that the game seems to lose the graphics drivers on a regular basis every 20 minutes or so and a person wonders what they are doing with trying to make this work. IMHO, air combat is about precision. The pilot needs to be able to KNOW exactly what they are doing with their computer body in the computer plane and not guess.
It seems very much like the simple solution is to look at the view keys locking the view. Its time honored, having been used for years and the pilot will always KNOW exactly what view they locked to, and not have it wavering around with random head movements. The update doesn't really add anything and actually subtracts from what a computer pilot has to do. You can work around it but it the same way you would work around flying while sitting on a basketball. It can be done but it doesn't really help the experience :).
Thanks!
Read oboe's post for how to make the turn / lean left feel intuitive.
Re-read my post about putting a dead band in for the forward view - I can make it so that it is completely locked in the forward aspect by the use of deadbands in each axis
If you feel so inclined perhaps ask someone to share their TIR profile with you and then tweak that to your preference
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Hey Oboe!
Thanks for a super helpful post! Putting the actual path to setting really makes it possible to change it! I'll set this up this afternoon.
As to the deadband, this is a term that is tossed out there by a number of people. I would be happy to take a look at their TIR profiles to see how they are accomplishing it. What I'm doing is sticking a flat part in the Yaw curve that corresponds to the dead forward looking position. I'm using the center and its first two sections to make this flat part. What I see is that TIR is very sensitive to the width and the amount of curvature that is used. Is anyone making that deadband wider than that?
Hey Fess!
From what you are saying, you are actually deadbanding in 3 axes? or just in X and Y? How wide do you make it?
1stPar, please take this the right way. IMHO, just saying it should be better is nice but its not the most helpful thing. I have been doing this for a quarter century and I've seen a few things come and go. Everyone here had a game called AHII that for its same $14.95 per month, delivered the features that are being asked for. It is natural when you are paying the same price for less functionality to ask, why? The answer either satisfies or you do something else with that money. It is literally that simple. I have friends that are saying this is the end of the road for them. The stuff that it takes to get this game working acceptably again is too great. You can say good riddance but I'd like to actually be able to show them how to get it working. In looking at the AH community, I honestly don't see how it can get any smaller and survive in any viable form. Each person we save is a possible viral phenomena for the game.
Telling anyone to "just feel better" is IMHO an empty phrase. I'd much rather give them concrete things to try. One of the things I'm not sure everyone is aware of, is that HALF of the people who were playing AH (an already small number), are trying to decide to make the jump or not. This is WHERE we can lose a huge number of people. I'm not Mr. Wonderfulguy but I AM here and asking questions. There are many who are not and won't. IMHO, there should be an active outreach into AHII to pull those folks over. Many are cancelling or will cancel by the end of the month. Once lost, how will anyone communicate with them? Like it or not, this game has a older demographic with lots of players in their 60s and 70s. You throw a major curve at these folks and they just QUIT. They don't need the aggravation of trying to get it all working again.
IMHO.
Thanks!
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They can always simplify it by reducing their TIR profile to pitch and yaw while they are getting used to AHIII. Pitch and yaw 2-axis will inherit their saved head positions as they mover their head around on two axis. Gives the best 6-view possible for the really bad 6-view planes.
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Thanks all the suggestions! I will try them out.
Just a thought though. I'm wondering what is the gain? What is the particular advantage of the new system that makes it a desirable change from the old? In the old system you just leaned out to the side and looked, no touching of keys. It seems under this system you hit the left key and turn. Isn't that one added key press?
It seems that which control overrides which control is an ordering issue. Just change the order and voila! there is no adaptation time or effort from AHII to AHIII. Seems like a win-win.
Much appreciated!
Track IR is working fine for me, I use all default settings, like I did in AH2, I don't touch keys or press keys, I just look or lean and look. If it ever isn't working properly it usually is interference from a stray light source for me.
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I do not use the Y axis nor roll. I find that makes it more like the old style button views. I know that not using the Y axis means I cannot look over the nose however I find with it enabled it often places me on the floor of the cockpit which is worse than not having it on.
In this profile the deadbands are small but just drag them out to flatten the start of the curve.
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Rapier, I don't take much personally in here. No worries, not really sure about the nice is ok but doesn't help? I have a curve mapping post in this thread if you want to see how I set deadband. I understand that most real time pilots con spot the difference in AHIII a mile away! There have been a lot of tips on this thread to help alleviate some of your problems with TIR. So please don't take this the wrong way either, but we are trying to helpyou out here and it seems you either don't understand what we are saying, or just too set in your ways to try and fix it. Personally, If you throw out an I am a pilot and have been for xx amount of time, doesn't really help much either. This isn't real life, its just a game that tries to incorporate as much modeling as they can with out making it to hard to pick up for some players. I would play DCS if it wasn't so complicated, not sure how many would be in this game it WAS more realistic. The help has been given and explained the best I can so I am at a loss on how else to help.
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I don't understand why this thread has gone five pages? My TrackIR was broken and unusable during Beta (just never sent it off until near the end), but when it got fixed and returned to me I installed the Aces High profile (smooth) and BOOM, I was in business. Leaning works with no problem. It's intuitive. Really.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkcaVmToMOU
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Had to read just WAY too many posts.
It sounds like you need to go through and readjust your camera and head position to make sure the IR emitters are centered to the camera. Do that first, and then worry about curves. I would think after that you can do everything by trial and error, but just to be on the safe side you can follow along on YouTube with Gerry Abbott as he works out the curves for DCS A10 (sorry, but I just don't have time to make a video on this topic even though I had planned to do so).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TASEXUd4Oto
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Rapier, I don't take much personally in here. No worries, not really sure about the nice is ok but doesn't help? I have a curve mapping post in this thread if you want to see how I set deadband. I understand that most real time pilots con spot the difference in AHIII a mile away! There have been a lot of tips on this thread to help alleviate some of your problems with TIR. So please don't take this the wrong way either, but we are trying to helpyou out here and it seems you either don't understand what we are saying, or just too set in your ways to try and fix it. Personally, If you throw out an I am a pilot and have been for xx amount of time, doesn't really help much either. This isn't real life, its just a game that tries to incorporate as much modeling as they can with out making it to hard to pick up for some players. I would play DCS if it wasn't so complicated, not sure how many would be in this game it WAS more realistic. The help has been given and explained the best I can so I am at a loss on how else to help.
Could you post a copy of your xml file he so we can drop it in to our profiles and get it a test run to see how you have your set?
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Absolutely! I have XML docs in attachment. Also here are my point coordinates for the curves I have customized. This works with the mirror box checked, as one side is positive x values and the other is -x values you can also do it by hand if that works better for you. I use The Track Clip pro and not the hat clip by the way. Camera is top of monitor centered. These curves will look odd and seem far too fast when seeing them in the TIR motion adjustment graph but in game it is a lot smoother.
In axis adjustment, works better for me, if I uncheck all the other axis squares except the one I am adjusting. You can have any template up, doesn't matter really as will be moving the points manually. Have mirror on and now just input theses values in the X point and y point boxes. zero point is the shared point by both sides of graph set as 0.0 - 0.0 in all curves.
Click on the first point to positive side of graph and adjust points to 6.7 - 0.0 second point is, 14.0-4.0, third is 23.0-6.0. fourth point is 35.0-7.0. fith point is 49.0-7.0. and yaw is set.
Now select pitch , uncheck the yaw box and check pitch box, every thing else is same as before. point 0 is 0.0-0.0 Point 1 is 4.0-0.0, point 2 is 6.5-3.6. point 3 is 22.5-6.0. point 4 is 32.5-6.0. point 5 is 45.5-6.0. I do not use the roll axis. Now X axis selected point 0 is 0.0-0.0. Point 1 is 3.0-0.0. point 2 is 10.0-3.0. point 3 is 22.0-6.0. point 4 is 30.0-6.0. point 5 is 40.0-6.0. Now for the y axis and Z axis iuse the default ONE TO ONE templates. I do not use the true view option. So with these axis all set up I will have a check in boxes fur Yaw,Pitch,X,Y, and Z boxes. You can save this as a new profile if you choose, I do and have it as exclusive profile. Hope this helps. Pretty sure there is an easier way to do this, but I am no computer whizz lol.
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I have just tweaked my profile. I think it is better. Rapier, this one has pretty large deadzones that may be to your liking.