Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Open Beta Test => Topic started by: Rondar on September 10, 2016, 08:30:22 PM
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My opinion, there are just way to many trees. Jimany Christmas, you almost cant see your barrel in a gv from all the trees everywhere.
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Get out of the city and take a look around.
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It's amazing how quickly we adapt to it. Give it a chance and you'll never want to go back.
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I initially thought the trees in AH3 were overdone as well (biased because they kill my frame rate). But being OCD with too much time on my hands I went ahead and measured the tree density in AH3 and compared it to tree density of "real life", for the European terrain set. The tree density in AH3 is actually on the low side of the range in real life. (This is because there is almost no natural forests left, every tree has been cut down and whats left is a semi managed forest with higher tree density for economic purposes.)
A separate issue, of course, is the affect on GV game play. As Easyscor mentioned the people who attend the AvA Thursday Night Tank Fights have been adapting after first complaining that there's way too many trees. If after several months of GVing in forests people still have trouble finding each other to the point that it adversely affects game play, then maybe that would be the time to lobby HTC to cut some of them down.
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I initially thought the trees in AH3 were overdone as well (biased because they kill my frame rate). But being OCD with too much time on my hands I went ahead and measured the tree density in AH3 and compared it to tree density of "real life", for the European terrain set. The tree density in AH3 is actually on the low side of the range in real life. (This is because there is almost no natural forests left, every tree has been cut down and whats left is a semi managed forest with higher tree density for economic purposes.)
A separate issue, of course, is the affect on GV game play. As Easyscor mentioned the people who attend the AvA Thursday Night Tank Fights have been adapting after first complaining that there's way too many trees. If after several months of GVing in forests people still have trouble finding each other to the point that it adversely affects game play, then maybe that would be the time to lobby HTC to cut some of them down.
Yup! And for all those who BI and complain about "bomb****s", all those trees really help. Its a lot more difficult to find a gv, when its parked under the trees or in the hedge rows! In AHII when I would take up my stealth bomber (Spit XVI) it was pretty easy to keep an eye one the GVs to line up a bomb run. In AHIII, if they are moving and I see them on a fly by, all they need do is kill there engine and disappear. Yes this worked in AHII, but nowhere near as well as in AHIII
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I have come to learn that GV-ing in AH3 is deeply personal - if you know there is a GV out there to kill. You need to get up close and personal. I have been enjoying that aspect of the game quite a lot. I have also learned that spawn camping from 2000-2500 yds away (even 1500-1800 in some cases) is not possible with the trees. Which doesn't bother me much. Also, even though the crater in AH3 has a rim and it looks like a crater, it's not the same CraterMA. There really are too many trees in the crater. I think the terrain is fine, but the tree density needs to be adjusted downward if we hope to improve over AH2's CraterMA. Finding enjoyable game play in the current AH3 crater is really tough. Other than that, AH3 is an order of magnitude better than AH2.
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I've also been considering a ring on the map (about a mile in radius but will be a host setting) that turns red if there is an enemy in that mile.
HiTech
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Move the trees around the field 88's not allowing you to depress guns in a large area of their protection zone. Or make it so I can blow the darn things out of the way. :) Fixed field guns would have a full 360 deg. clear field of fire.
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I like the trees--except when I try to ditch. Lol
But I am a tree person in real life.
Once get my rig updated I am going max settings on the trees! :rock
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I was thinking after having a few drives and chasing a GV through all that stuff that it would be nice if the small shrubby trees you can drive through would flatten to the ground for a set amount of time.... this could be a visual cue that a GV has been through recently...
My initial thought was damn...the guy I'm chasing could just sit on the other side of one of these tree rows and wait for me to pop through....I would not have seen him till too late.. I was definitely thankful for the air con who could tell me that he was still on the move away from me
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Yup That could be fun, sort of like how bomb craters hang around for a time. Even just tread marks across fields would help. I will admit though, I am more the "bomb****ER" than "bomb****EE" lol Easier to see them buggers from the air! Well used to be ;0
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I was thinking after having a few drives and chasing a GV through all that stuff that it would be nice if the small shrubby trees you can drive through would flatten to the ground for a set amount of time.... this could be a visual cue that a GV has been through recently...
My initial thought was damn...the guy I'm chasing could just sit on the other side of one of these tree rows and wait for me to pop through....I would not have seen him till too late.. I was definitely thankful for the air con who could tell me that he was still on the move away from me
hmmm, dust trail (smoke) that doesn't vanish immediately and can be seen from the air.
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The next Thursday Night Tank Night will be on the tankland terrain in the AvA.
Come get some practice and have fun at the same time. All are welcome!
It starts at 8pm EST, on September 15th.
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I've also been considering a ring on the map (about a mile in radius but will be a host setting) that turns red if there is an enemy in that mile.
HiTech
That may only help planes find the hiding M3 or tank faster just to drop and egg on it. A GV only ring will probably just have 2 GV's sitting static waiting for someone to start up and drive into the others gun sight.
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To me the maps I've seen look like beautiful green Pacific terrain. I don't GV much but I get pleasure looking at the terrain from the air.
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Just finished updating to about 200+ tanks on my gunnery terrain in the Hogan Ally drive through areas. I couldn't see any that were past 600yds under trees in the shadows, so I added more to bring the number up to about 200+. I did a drive through and all the tanks near by 100-600 yds you could see. Then I turned off shadows and no tank was hidden very well by any groups of trees or bushes. And you could see them out to 2000yds on hill tops and under trees.
Shadows are a bit binary black and white, none to little gradation relative to light saturation. The amount of trees is not the problem, it's the all or nothing shadows.
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I've also been considering a ring on the map (about a mile in radius but will be a host setting) that turns red if there is an enemy in that mile.
HiTech
No need. If you bring up the menu and it it is green where you end sortie, there are no gv's nearby, or any a/c either. If it is red, some thing is close.
Most of the regular GV'ers figured that out right away. :)
:salute
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I really like the trees. I use the M-8 allot and it is really difficult for the planes to pop your turret or bomb you if they cannot find you. if they do find you the dense leaves provide lots of cover.
I think if everyone gives the trees a chance they will adapt. It took me awhile to figure how to drive through dense trees really fast. It is also very hard to camp
a gv spawn now with trees surrounding it. This is quite an improvement over AH2.
:salute
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Lol I agree just a tad too many trees... It's like having a war in the state of Oregon.. Not to mention they're some anti tank snare trees..I was parked next to a tree firing on manos t34 when the tree branch picked me up.. Hung me upside down for 20 seconds.. probably waiting until all my pocket change fell out of my pants... Then dropped me on my head upside down.. And no I wasn't drinking or high! I felt violated :bhead.. And Yes I'm being serious.. Next I was parked between two trees not moving engine stopped and it side shifted me very slowly thru the trees until it spit me out the other side.. It was like tanking in a Alfred Hitchcock movie
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I was in an ostwind yesterday shooting at planes overhead. I slewed the turret to the left, leading the target, when wham! I hit a branch over head with a round and I turreted myself.
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Scott that may be Hitech's recent solution to getting stuck when you run into trees. When someone posted they got stuck after that patch, he asked them how much time did they give the situation before exiting the game.
If you turn off shadows, you can see tanks under trees with no problems.
When AHIII goes live I will publish my offline gunnery training terrain. It has 2 miles of farmland and three villages set next to the tank town object. And I salted all of it with tanks so you can drive through to practice seeing them. You can test with shadows on then shadows off. In tank town with shadows on tanks just off the road are almost invisible until you get inside of 600. With shadows off, you wonder why a tank is sitting exposed trying to hide behind a few trees. There are two spawns onto the tank town roads. I also have a mile of tree bordered farm fields with a spawn at the far side of them from a regular town object for you to drive through. And then the town filled with tanks.
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I'm in! I have shadows off and post lighting I just thought it was funny getting hung upside down it was funny...I will say it's a whole new ballgame gv wise.. Trying to judge distance and trajectory..is 74 feet from manos butt and missed.. apparently shot over him
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One of the problems I have with the terrain editor placing down tank objects, I cannot turn of shadows. So when I inspect my handy work from a road after hiding a tank in some trees with the help of shadows, the tank is hidden in plain sight. Online with shadows off, you almost cannot place a tank far enough off the road to hide it.
If a guy with a bomb hunting for a GV in the trees has shadows off, he will find you if any part of you is exposed to sunlight. With shadows off, tanks light up in the sunlight. Tank town has four high hills covered with trees that are the best sniper hides in the place.
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So it looks better with shadows ..if your rig can handle it...but if they are off you get the advantage gving..it sounds like it needs tweaking so folks don't get too gamey with all detail down.
If I'm hiding I should be hiding right??
Kinda need a level playing field
.
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I've also been considering a ring on the map (about a mile in radius but will be a host setting) that turns red if there is an enemy in that mile.
HiTech
I don't know HT seens like armourd warfare where the targeting can see enemy thru trees and rocks
I think it's fine like it is
but I could be wrong---besides the base flashing already tells you an enemy is close
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So I wonder if shadows "off and on" replaces all those view types we used to have, normal all the way to that one all tankers used so you almost could see through hills. Or if you wanted to find tanks hidden in trees to bomb.
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Don't you dare go in there and practice Scotty. You are one of my favorite targets. :D :D :D
:joystick: :neener:
:salute Sir
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Don't you dare go in there and practice Scotty. You are one of my favorite targets. :D :D :D
:joystick: :neener:
:salute Sir
if I'm invited I'm going!! Bustr will make me great! Then yours and tyfoos days are numbered buddy :neener: you two are going to spend so much time in the tower you might as well change your address! :devil
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When Hitech does the go live for real, I will package it in it's own zip installer. It is an offline only gunnery training terrain for anyone to download and play with to learn your sights, ranging, wander through tank infested terrain and way much more. It is only one country with all objects destroy able. Mano, I doubt Skuzzy would make it available in the terrain list for custom arenas.
Last night I officially got burnt out placing tanks on the terrain, I haven't got a clue if there are too many or not enough. I'm seeing the buggers in my sleep now.
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I was in an ostwind yesterday shooting at planes overhead. I slewed the turret to the left, leading the target, when wham! I hit a branch over head with a round and I turreted myself.
I have done that sitting to close to an ammo bunker on a v base.
I like to have the trees on one side of my Ostie to protect my six, but I do keep some distance from the trees to avoid turreting myself. A big clump of trees prevents a tank from shooting you as well. They cannot shoot through trees in this version of AH.
:salute
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I can get used to the trees although I agree there are too many in some cases. It appears they got rid of the mounds we used to hide behind and replaced them with a bunch of trees. What really bothers me is the fact they have armor plated leaves. I don't get that at all? In fact you can't even shoot through the objects you can drive through? If a real tank could not put a round through brush they would just scrap them. I have even had numerous incidents where I am next to a bush, my canon barrel is clear by a country mile, and I still can't shoot past the tree or bush, or even a single leaf? To me that is an issue that needs to be resolved.
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The tree density for terrain editor default tiles ranges from open grass to partial tree and bushes, to dense trees. It's up to how the terrain builder decided to paint those on. As for tank town, there are as many dense tree areas as open grass areas. And then the roads for fast transit which it seems like you guys don't want to use. So it sounds like you are all trying to hide in the dense tree areas while sneeking around through them hiding from each other trying to bushwhack each other, getting nowhere fast because they are dense trees.
If you turn off shadows, its very easy to see other tanks through the tree trunks.
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Hey, I forgot to mention, I got my first tank kill at 3,000+ yds in AH3 yesterday.
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Hey, I forgot to mention, I got my first tank kill at 3,000+ yds in AH3 yesterday.
WTG!
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And then the roads for fast transit which it seems like you guys don't want to use.
So Bustr, are you saying you would drive a tank down an open road knowing there are enemies around. Can't think of a better way to get killed fast. :O
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Yep, normally you would find 10+ players in tank town now maybe 4-5.
GVing is nearly ruined by too many trees and the inability to see incoming rounds.
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then the roads for fast transit which it seems like you guys don't want to use. So it sounds like you are all trying to hide in the dense tree areas while sneeking around through them hiding from each other trying to bushwhack each other, getting nowhere fast because they are dense trees.
Seems you were not in a ground combat unit where your platoon sgt would kick your asz if he caught you walking down a path/trail/road/clearings etc. A quick way to die on patrol. Ambushes are set to catch the lazy who won't slog thru creeks and bogs and flank positions covering clear approaches.
You want trees ? Here is a pic of my company on the cambodian border in 1968. Seeing a direction where incoming fire is coming from in that terrain is near impossible tracers or not. Areas like that is where 'spray and pray' is a given and why every swinging charlie carried extra 250rd belts for the m60's. My C.O. is on the right with the glasses and the handsome young man to his right is myself. :rofl
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2hqarts.jpg)
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So Bustr, are you saying you would drive a tank down an open road knowing there are enemies around. Can't think of a better way to get killed fast. :O
I'll release my offline gunnery training terrain on Monday with a self installer. I've placed tanks in just about every hiding place on the tank town object feasible. Truning off shadows makes most of them stand out like a sore thumb. Some of the TT issue is you guys really need a clipboard map for that object with elevation topo for the hills, and start marking off the ambush spots. While setting up the TT Hogan's Ally drive through I've gotten lost many times having to use F3 to figure out where I was. Since your tank doesn't have an attached support unit with some kind of a scouting detachment like many tank units did in WW2, Hitech might want to enable F3 mode for tanks since you guys want to play lone wolf GVballing. Or create some new kind of limited scout view for GVs.
Hmmmmm, Since I have access to a TT in the terrain editor I should probably make a map for you gents. I was thinking about including one for the three villages at the south spawn from TT on my terrain. (Most of you will probably bushwack and find the tanks I setup to ambush you for bushwhacking.) Since the terrain builder can lay down the 2milex2mile tank town object in 4 direction orientations, I'll use something like Roy's for the key orientation. Realism sucked for tanks in WW2.
redcathcer,
This is a video game, turn off shadows and much of the hide in trees for tanks is removed. I've bushwhacked Asian bamboo thickets where you had to climb the one lone skinny tree to see over the top and find your way out. Not all bamboo is the same around Asia, depending on the strain of bamboo you can't see 6 inches or you can see 30 yards because of the big green stems. Nor are all forests, especially the palm forest and strangler fig from the terrain editor Pac terrain set. You should see my TT using the Euro terrain tile set with conifers and deciduous. Almost two years ago when Hitech first dropped tank town in the NDisles center island on us, the trees were 120ft tall and so thick you couldn't see a tank 600 yards off the road. He spent a while density testing for FPS and it thinned out the trees and clutter in the process. Shadows are now the real reason you cannot see tanks hiding in the trees 600 yards away. Everywhere you are driving on NDisles, I've driven infinitude during the last 2 years testing including creating my own gunnery training terrain.
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[quote author=bustr link=topic=381404.msg5081009#msg5081009 date=14740473
redcathcer,
This is a video game, turn off shadows and much of the hide in trees for tanks is removed. I've bushwhacked Asian bamboo thickets where you had to climb the one lone skinny tree to see over the top and find your way out. Not all bamboo is the same around Asia, depending on the strain of bamboo you can't see 6 inches or you can see 30 yards because of the big green stems.
[/quote]
I was just commenting on not using the roads no matter how enticing. I think the tree density is fine and have no problems other than the foilage setting off a tank shell like its a leaf proximity fuse. Once you get used to moving and looking/listening the tree/forest design is great in my opinion. Having been killed numerous times by 8thjinx who uses a tank with some of the worst optics in these forests you can see it's 80% method compared to 20% visibility. Again, no problem with the trees or vision in the foilage, really evens the playing field.
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Bustr, I'm glad to know we will have your offline gunnery training terrain soon. I'm anxious to try it and appreciate all the work you have put into the game. :salute
I have to turn off shadows to get decent FPS with my HD 6950 but it doesn't seem to help with seeing tanks in trees. Last night a tank was firing at me from the trees across the road and I could see his rounds but not a trace of his tank. He fired 6 times before he hit me so I had plenty of time to look. I had the tree detail all the way to the left because in any other position the trees shimmer with any movement in my point of view. So the trunks were pretty bare with lots of space between them but no tank. (Object detail slider was all the way to the right.) I'm not saying your observation is wrong but suspect it may be video card related or caused by some other difference in our graphics settings.
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Hopefully when I finish my 7zip self extractor file setup, you get a copy of this map file inside of your Maps folder to then manually update from inside the maps application on the clipboard. This map is oriented to how I laid down the TT object on my terrain. The 4pixel brown square in the left quadrant on the road down from the village is Roy's, with the Roy's sign on the front parking area. This was made from the skin viewer object so you can see the areas trees from any of the three tile sets will be. Once you drive around in there, then fly a storch over it, you can make notes about the terrain for your GV sneeking around or ambushes online. I really hope foliage of all kinds hasn't become a get out of jail god mode impervious card now for GVs.
(https://s20.postimg.org/er044wmfh/Tank_Town.jpg)
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Anyone notice that tank town looks like one of those retirement villages on a golf course in Texas?
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Adapted from a song called The Trees by Rush
There is unrest in the forest
There is trouble with the trees
For the players want more sunlight
And the trees ignore their pleas
There is trouble in the forest
And the creatures all have fled
As the players scream 'oppression!'
And the trees, just shake their heads (facepalm)
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I do not think it is that there are too many trees really. Some of The trees have long horizontal branches which makes them impossible to drive through and if you happen to rub the branch with the side of your tank you get stuck on it and the next thing you know you are in the middle of three or 4 trees all having those horizontal branches. Then you may as well tower because you are stuck for a very long time. I mean, seriously, in what war ever did a 6" tree branch even slow a tank's roll?
The other tree problem is they have armor plated leaves. (much better than that of your tank.)
With the better GV guys, if you do not kill them with the first shot you will die while you are reloading. I have had many shots where I can see a nice big chunk of the side of a tank, I fire, the round goes right where it is supposed to, then blows up before striking the tank Or hits a leaf and blows up. So he swings his gun while I'm loading and I'm dead. I can't even fire a machine gun through a leaf but a plane has no problem firing through them. Makes no sense. Not being able to shoot beyond some objects was an unresolved problem in AH2 also.
I really badly want to like this game.
It looks great, For the most part it feels great and I am convinced it will be a vast improvement over AH2 in time.
Other than a few issues I think the team that worked on this did a bang up job.
Thanks for listening
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I don't think there are too many trees. I just look at them as something to avoid, just like I try to avoid hitting parked cars when I drive mine. Of course I didn't have an issue with bushes flipping tanks in AH2 again, because I avoided them.
I think the biggest complainers are those that like to wheel around and just blast their big guns while they are flying around the battle field. Sorry, I think the game should be a bit more complicated than that.
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They reduced the number of trees but now spawn camping is in full swing just like ah2. Not good.
Poor HTC can't please us all at the same time.
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It's the suddenly finding themselves back to being newbies and whacked at every turn which is driving all of this screaming for Hitech to castrate AH3 terrain back to a compromised version of AH2. Solo tanking in this game is an absurd masochistic pastime. Due to the nature of the programed environment or limitations, there is never a consistency of what you can see versus what the guy sending you to the tower saw through the shadows, clutter and trees. You can only turn off shadows, reflections, clutter and turn the tree detail slider down to "0" so the none matching colors of a tank stands out. Yes, spawn camping, the sport of kings.
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It's the suddenly finding themselves back to being newbies and whacked at every turn which is driving all of this screaming for Hitech to castrate AH3 terrain back to a compromised version of AH2. Solo tanking in this game is an absurd masochistic pastime. Due to the nature of the programed environment or limitations, there is never a consistency of what you can see versus what the guy sending you to the tower saw through the shadows, clutter and trees. You can only turn off shadows, reflections, clutter and turn the tree detail slider down to "0" so the none matching colors of a tank stands out. Yes, spawn camping, the sport of kings.
After the first full weekend of near normal player numbers and many many deaths by seasoned GVers and new names on NDisles, the new graphics and terrain plus even the bugs where shells explode on leaves, trees grab you and ice skate you around, all I can say is GVing in AH3 ROCKS !