Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Hotwire on August 29, 2017, 02:19:37 PM
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After more than 5 years, I've completely worn out my Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals and now am faced with which is the best replacement for the money.
Thrustmaster TFRP Flight Rudder Pedals seem to be more stable and smooth because of it's slide system and are less than the Saitek.
Your thoughts, experiences and ideas would be greatly appreciated.
"Gremlin"
162nd Fighter Group
Purple Heart Squadron
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If you have the bucks the MFG Crosswinds are super smooth and really well built.
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VKB T-Rudder Mk IV also very good pedals, on par with the Crosswinds and with a smaller footprint for those that don't have much foot room under the computer desk.
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Bought TFRP when my old CH Pros wore out. I cannot recommend The Thrustmaster since they have weak springs, narrow spacing and short throw. I haven't tried the Saitek.
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I can't speak for later Saitek builds which seem to have had quality control issues since MadCatz bought out Saitek and now Logitech owns Saitek... but my original pedals from so many years ago (October 2007) are still working 100% on both toe-brake axes and the main rudder axes with no spiking at all in JoyTester2. The only parts that have broken are the spring loaded detents that allow adjusting the pedal length. So my pedals sit at minimum size due to gravity and can slide when I go to rest my feet on them. Some people mod them to get rid of the center detent and change the centering feel for flying helicopters (DCS World fans). But I have had no trouble using these pedals for flying anything in any sim after using them so many years. I use a small deadband around the center of the rudder axis through the Windows Game Controller Settings, but other than that I never use any curves or programming. In some games, the toe brakes need to be inverted. Sometimes I need a deadband to assure that no brakes are applied when no pressure is on the toe brakes, but usually the rudder axis is the only one that has any sort of deadband, and that is very small.
The big advantage of the Saitek pedals is the spacing. They are exactly far enough apart that both of my legs are parallel from the knees down to the pedals and don't interfere with my center pedestal mounted Warthog stick with a 15 cm extension. The intent was to model the geometry of an F-4 Phantom cockpit, and these pedals fit the dimensions I needed almost perfectly. It would literally cost me thousands of dollars to get a pedal setup that more accurately represented the form and function of real F-4 rudder pedals. But when these finally fail, I will probably try MFG Crosswind combat pedals (if they are ever put into production) or one of their all-metal but otherwise similar competitors. I will not give up having toe brakes, which eliminates the VKB pedals. Too many of the aircraft I fly across many different sims use them.
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I will not give up having toe brakes, which eliminates the VKB pedals. Too many of the aircraft I fly across many different sims use them.
With the VKB software, you can program toe brakes to the pedals.
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MFG Crosswinds will end your quest for rudder pedals. You will be hard pressed to find negative reviews of these pedals. :aok
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I have the MFG crosswinds and I love them. I want the get a set of Slaw's pedals when I have some money to burn they look awesome.
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I have a race rig / flight rig, the reason I bought the ThrustMaster T.flight pedals is because there smaller, have straight line of action and fit in with my race pedals and narrow enough to fit in the rig itself (19 inches wide), fits my needs but never tried any other. Being able to swap over from car to plane in a matter of seconds is nice, and there not too expensive. They also have removable heel supports.
*Edit* The rig is 19 inches. the pedals are only 12 inches, so yea very small, but for me it was a good thing.
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The MFG Crosswinds and its similar competitors do not have the linear slide motion of the Saitek pedals. The real world pedals and the very high end ($3,500) usb pedals for airliner simulators stay at the same spacing. Again the Saitek pedals were the most cost effective way of simulating high end geometry that mimics real life applications. This is what I would get if I had money to burn (complete with the little hand crank for adjusting pedal depth for leg length): http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/components/b737ng/b737ng-flight-controls/b737ng-rudder-pedals/
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Crosswinds do slide and have toe brakes. The VKB pedals don't slide but brakes can be applied using a modifier button on the stick.
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MFG do not slide. The pedals are attached to two parallel bars that pivot. By definition, when the bars pivot to any angle other than neutral, the distance between the pedals has to decrease. If the parallel bars are deflected by 30 degrees, the distance between the pedals has to be Cosine (30 deg) = 86.6% of the normal parallel distance. If the bars are 10-inches long, they are nearly 1.5 inches closer together. I don't have them and don't know how long the parallel bars are or what the maximum deflection angle is. If it was only say 15 degrees, then the decrease is only 4.5% of the length of the parallel bars rather than the 14.4% of a 30 degree deflection.
The Saitek pedals are constrained to move along fixed tracks rather then using any kind of center mounted pivoting lever to connect the pedals.
The real pedals and high end replicas have a radically different way of generating motion. The pedals are suspended in above the floor from the top and rotate forward or back much like a weight hanging from a string. They are geared together so that when one pedal goes forward (pushed towards the nose), the other rotates toward the pilot.
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This video illustrates exactly how the MFG pedals move. It looks like the parallel bars are about 8 inches long and deflect about 45 degrees. In the video, you can clearly see the pedals move closer to the center when deflected. If the bars are 8 inches and deflect 45 degrees, the total distance between the pedals will decrease by 8 - 8 * cos(45deg) = 2.3 inches, i.e. each pedal will move towards the center by about 1.15 inches. With my setup, that means my leg moving toward me would probably rub on the center pedestal where my stick is mounted, which was built to scale to represent the metal housing around a real F-4 stick. The clearance between my legs and the pedestal on each side is about 3/4 in, which is plenty of clearance for the Saitek pedals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJJ9PukSq80
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Dude I own them. I didn't know I needed a calculator to yaw left.
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