Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Ripsnort on November 18, 2001, 06:55:00 PM
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None for me, but others said they may not make it...
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It's a no-go for me.
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I actually expect this to be a slight problem. So far I have had two pilots say they can not make it do to Thanksgiving. I expect at least maybe 1 to 2 more to also not make it for this reason .. which is not crippling for my squad since we would have fielded 18 last frame so we should stay in the teens but it could impact other squads more heavily.
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Good point rip. I am all ears, and I see two reasonable options.
1. Hold the TOD, but I will not look at the numbers so squad would not have to worry about having less than 66%.
2. Cancel the TOD another week and put up a Snapshot as a replacement event for those that will be around.
Any more thoughts on this?
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I'm not going to be able to make it Friday either, fyi.
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I'd vote for #2 since more than 3 of my flyers cannot make it.
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It's not a problem for me; I'm not going to be around for it.
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The 416 has been very supportive of the TOD series since a number of us come
from the Select Scenarios of Warbirds. There have been a series of
technical problems and design issues that have turned some of the squad away
from TOD and actually caused one member to leave AH all together. I think
we all understand that there are growing pains to get the whole thing going
smoothly, but there has been much more agony than ecstasy at this point.
Between getting stuck with downloading terrain when entering the arena and
losing out on take-off time and whatever happened last weekend with the
arena crashing and combining that with missions that are designed for
disaster, we are currently deciding if our squad will continue with TODs.
What we are looking for is the following:
1) Less technical problems. Terrain available for download from the host
site and announcements of downloads in advance of the event, for example.
2) Better command structure that would allow squads to work together
(bombers getting escorts would be a nice start).
3) Better design of the events to make them a bit more playable. I love
historical accuracy, but who wants to play Custer?
4) Better attitude towards participants. For example, we understand that
these events are getting organized and are trying to be patient, but the CMs
need to have the same attitude towards the participants.
As a CM for Warbirds and having experience in terrain and scenario design,
I have offered my services to help these events and have been ignored for
whatever reason. I only mention this because my goal has been to promote
these events and offer my services and not just my opinions.
Hening
416 RCAF
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I disagree with your post Hening. First of all it's completely off the topic of this thread and best suited for a private email. Second I don't understand your list of complaints.
1. I've only seen one major technical problem.
2. If you're not getting escort, your CO is to blame. Not "command structure", but the commander.
3. Scenarios have been very balanced so far. It may swing back and forth from frame to frame, but the scoring totals have been pretty close.
4. I haven't seen this at all. If anything the participants are the ones needing the attitude adjustment.
I hope you guys stick around though.
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Last Friday nite was the first "glitch" we've ever had in a scenario regarding the problem they had, that in 2 yrs.
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A hold for one week would be a big help for the Tas.
Sax
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daddog:
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1. Hold the TOD, but I will not look at the numbers so squad would not have to worry about having less than 66%.
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I don't think a frame with a very bad turnout would be much fun.
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2. Cancel the TOD another week and put up a Snapshot as a replacement event for those that will be around.
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I'd be up for this--especially if it had a 'Bigweek' theme. It would also give any squads who wanted it an opportunity to get a little practice in. (in tune with your position in another thread that the MA is practice for weekly events, and weekly events practice for scenarios :) )
anRky
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Originally posted by Hening:
What we are looking for is the following:
1) Less technical problems.
Yes, we had a major problem with the event on Friday. It could not be forseen and therefore a contigency plan was not in place.
Terrain available for download from the host
site and announcements of downloads in advance of the event, for example.
Terrain was available for the Philippines a day before the event.
2) Better command structure that would allow squads to work together
(bombers getting escorts would be a nice start).
We give "General Orders" to the frame C.O. and it is up to that person to give out specific squad orders. If you have a problem with the orders you should e-mail the frame C.O. with your suggestions.
3) Better design of the events to make them a bit more playable. I love
historical accuracy, but who wants to play Custer?
TOD's are designed to be "based on historical events". A truely historic event is very involved and we run those every 3 months or so.
4) Better attitude towards participants. For example, we understand that
these events are getting organized and are trying to be patient, but the CMs
need to have the same attitude towards the participants.
Please be more specific. Are you saying that CM's are hostile towards the participants?
As a CM for Warbirds and having experience in terrain and scenario design,
I have offered my services to help these events and have been ignored for
whatever reason. I only mention this because my goal has been to promote
these events and offer my services and not just my opinions.
There are only so many CM spots available. Get in touch with banana and give him your name. When a slot opens up perhaps he will keep you in mind
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: skernsk ]
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i'll be out of town.
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Henig's post aside we are trying to get an idea on who can make it and who cannot.
Please let us know so we can make a decision on whether to postpone or run the event.
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Well the turnout for the Nightmares is a little lighter than usual so far but I have not gotten an answer from everyone one.
So far I have:
12 Confirmed
1 maybe
3 no
7 unheard from
So we definitely have enough numbers to make a go of it. But I think it really swings on how all the other squads are doing for turnout.
I personally say Nightmares would not have a problem either way. Another week would give us more practice time and more time to turn more people out. Not to mention that 2 weeks would give Pyroman a better chance of finding a computer to at least fly in the TOD he planned for the allies.
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Wow, just a few fast replies.
The question was if your squad was going to be present. My reply was "no" and then an explaination of why. Along with the explaination came a bit of constructive critique formulated by reactions of members of our squad. I have no idea to whom or why this should be a personal email?
The terrain download being part of the entrance to the arena two weeks ago was a nightmare. I am considering it a technical glitch since a number of our squad got to the event late because of the slow download time and were not granted permission to take off. Iwas there one half our early and did not make it. The download of the terrain was choked since so many were trying to get it at once. Okay, if it isn't a technical glitch it must be considered an organizational issue since none of us were aware that either the terrain needed to be downloaded or that so many would be downloading at the same time or the server could not handle the traffic. A problem by any other name.
I only hope that the defensive tone of replies still alows those in control to possibly take note. These observations are those of our squad not just me. If this post doesn't belong here, do me a favour and cut and paste it to the area of the BBS you feel it should be.
As a CM in another sim, I've already made my points personally to any CM that treats a player as if they are doing the player a favour. The goal should be to get numbers in these events.
I have already submitted my name and experience and will hopefully make the list at some point.
Please forgive all the personal answers that are in fact off topic, but I felt compelled to respond to the fact that my original post was turned into such a personal reaction.
Cheers,
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Hening, with the release of V1.08 and DX8 within, that hosed a bunch of terrains. Consider it technology advancement on the glitch two weeks ago. :)
As for the CM group as a whole, they are alot further advanced than WB's was at 2 years old, I know, I was there...they will do just fine, teething is always part of growing.
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Incidently, we all should be open minded about constructive critism, it only makes the sim better.
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Hening in retrospect you're right about your comments not being off topic. I retract my statement to that effect. I truly hope that you will become a CM and that 416 will continue to partipate in the TOD.
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Hello, I am a member of Hening's Squad and wanted to back up what he's saying.
We really enjoy the TODs and Scenarios. Myself and Abunabi are late night guys, these guys hit the sack earlier than us, so we do not get to fly as a squad as often as we would like. Thus why we look forward to the TODs and plan our lifestyles accordingly for that. (Those poor guys are drinking foamy cups of java to keep up with us NightOwls). So, when the TOD goes FUBAR for a variety of reasons, its a real disappointment for our guys.
First, let's talk about the CM stuff. I know you guys do a lot of work on this, and you also remind all participants about all the work you do on it. So, suffice to say, we understand its not an easy task. But, if I may, I'd like to suggest some "protocol" that makes things easier for everyone.
First, if late walk-ons are a faux-pas for CMs, then late orders and terrains should be to. Ideally, everything needed for all players to play the weekly TOD should be out the door the Monday before, so Squads can practice and develop their skills. For us, and I'm sure others, it becomes part of our Squad Practice sessions.
Further, this gives the Flight/Squad Leads of each Squadron a chance to link up and communicate with their follow players...for example, escorts can open a dialogue with their bombers.
It just seems to me that if anyone speaks harshly of the previous weeks TOD, they are shoved the "oh we work so hard on these TODs" and then the flame war begins. I'd like to think the TOD Scenario folks have rugged egos and can accept the suggestions. Again, I know the scenario folks do a lot, we're simply asking that certain protocols and deadlines be enforced, so squads can have what they need prior to play, and hopefully be less stress on the CMs
Speaking on my behalf, we've tried to be really patient with the recent issues with the TODs. We ALSO put a lot of time and planning into being there.
So, with that said, let's help each other out so that the TOD's continue to be a popular and packed event.
Please, no flames :)
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A couple of points I'd like to make LePaul.
First, if late walk-ons are a faux-pas for CMs, then late orders and terrains should be to. Ideally, everything needed for all players to play the weekly TOD should be out the door the Monday before, so Squads can practice and develop their skills.
I am in charge of this TOD. I do the behind the scenes stuff which is everything BUT the set-up on the day of the event.
For frame 1 I sent the General Orders on Saturday leaving a week for the Frame C.O. to send orders out to his squads. I did the samw thing for frame 2 and sent the General Orders out on the Saturday. We usually want the orders out by Monday and try to do that.
As for the terrian it had a few bugs that we squashed. Unfortunately we had a bug built into the table that caused us nightmares last Friday. It happens...and we decided to cancel.
It just seems to me that if anyone speaks harshly of the previous weeks TOD, they are shoved the "oh we work so hard on these TODs" and then the flame war begins.
Well when you spend several hours on the TOD and a guy is squeaking that he had to wait for a download he could have gotten a day before the event it would piss you off too I'm sure. On that issue we even had it posted that the terrian was available for download in the SEA and if it wasn't contact a CM and he will load it into the SEA for you to download. My question...what were people doing a day before the event? My guess was they were in the MA and could have spent the few mins to download the terrain and then go furballing. This is the only complaint I saw regarding the present TOD. If there are more shoot me a private maessage.
I'd like to think the TOD Scenario folks have rugged egos and can accept the suggestions.
I'm always open to suggestions LePaul and as a rookie CM I am sure I have tons of areas that need improvment. And even though I type in blue in the SEA I am still a player of Aces High and am no better than you or Henig or anyone else out there.
It does get frustrating when you "think" ya done good and someone rains on your parade over the most ridiculous thing.
Another thing that I like is the fact that some squads take the TOD events we run quite seriously. Since we are the ones particiapating anything that can make them run better or smoother is fair game.
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I think the TOD people are great! It takes alot of work (personal time) to run one of these things.
Also I expect a few things to go wrong, nothing is ever perfect. I guess it is just me to look at the positive things in these scenarios than the negative. Makes for better flying!
I am to be out of town Friday and unfortunatealy cannot make the TOD.
Good Post, Im glad someone got this out in the open.
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Thanks for responding kindly :)
To your points:
I am in charge of this TOD. I do the behind the scenes stuff which is everything BUT the set-up on the day of the event.
For frame 1 I sent the General Orders on Saturday leaving a week for the Frame C.O. to send orders out to his squads. I did the samw thing for frame 2 and sent the General Orders out on the Saturday. We usually want the orders out by Monday and try to do that.
As for the terrian it had a few bugs that we squashed. Unfortunately we had a bug built into the table that caused us nightmares last Friday. It happens...and we decided to cancel.
I appreciate your promptness. As I pointed out, many of us base our squad practice, as well as what we fly in the Main Arena, on what our orders are. The sooner we have that data, the sooner we can get up to snuff on that particular airplane.
Well when you spend several hours on the TOD and a guy is squeaking that he had to wait for a download he could have gotten a day before the event it would piss you off too I'm sure. On that issue we even had it posted that the terrian was available for download in the SEA and if it wasn't contact a CM and he will load it into the SEA for you to download. My question...what were people doing a day before the event? My guess was they were in the MA and could have spent the few mins to download the terrain and then go furballing. This is the only complaint I saw regarding the present TOD. If there are more shoot me a private maessage.
Hening, myself and a few of our other members didn't see that we had to download the map, and usually map downloads are very fast. Hening's download never finished, nor did mine or the other gents.
Problem is, we didnt (I didn't!) know we had to download a map prior to the event. Could that be something as a logon message to the Main Area, as a reminder? Not everyone cruises the BBS or knows to look in here. Just a suggestion to reduce this problem from happening again.
I'm always open to suggestions LePaul and as a rookie CM I am sure I have tons of areas that need improvment. And even though I type in blue in the SEA I am still a player of Aces High and am no better than you or Henig or anyone else out there.
It does get frustrating when you "think" ya done good and someone rains on your parade over the most ridiculous thing.
Another thing that I like is the fact that some squads take the TOD events we run quite seriously. Since we are the ones particiapating anything that can make them run better or smoother is fair game.
Well, we do take the TOD/Scenarios very seriously. Its our evening out with the boys, so to speak, and naturally, we like it to be a good time for all. Likewise, its great if everyone can be level-headed and open to input. Poor Hening made a few good points that were composed out of OUR thoughts, as a group....he didn't just dream these up on his own. I've seen some of the blasts were taken back, but it goes to show that if you complain about the Scenarios, sometimes you get labeled a whiner for pointing out things that others are thinking too.
Keep at it Rookie, and thanks for listening.
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Well LePaul there was one thing that we could have done and that is send an e-mail to all squad C.O's that the terrian was available for download.
Since most if not all are seen here posting fairly regularily I assumed that the message was recieved here.
Another thing was that the terrain needs to be "blessed" by HTC before it can be used. We got the word from HTC that it was accepted and decided that there should be sufficient time for all to download it.
One thing about the TOD's you "serious players" must know. A TOD is never going to be 100% ACCURATE. It is not there for that reason. Instead a TOD is designed as one in which groups or squads can participate and have fun working as a group or with other such groups. It is not there for historians.
When participating in a TOD keep this in mind. You will be given objectives and a strat map. It is up to you to make the orders out for your "team" of squads to achieve those objectives. This way you get to be involved in more ways than just show up and fly.
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Thanks for the constructive criticism, guys. We hear you and will try to get better.
Hehe, ok I can see that everyone knows that we work our butts off to make these events run. I guess I'll stop adding that to every post I make. Point taken. :)
Hening, is Holder in your squad? He recently turned down my offer to join the CM team because of lack of free time. So, I still have one spot open. If you're interested, please send me a private message.
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Yes banana I am. See my latest private message to you about rotation to the bottom of the CM list.
Holder
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Hi Holder, I got your message, will do.
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Holder, could you please ask Hening to private message me and tell me if he's interested in taking the spot that was going to you? Thanks.
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I vote to put it off one week if possible <S>. I am not sure if I will be able to make it due to thanksgiving.
Hey how do you get the experince needed to become one of these CM's ?? Any one want to take a new guy under their wing LOL.. Teach him the Scenerio design ropes ??
[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: MrKil ]
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out of curiousity am I on that list?
I think I volunteered back when there was a shortage of CMs
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You were not on mine moose, but you are now. :) As you are now mrkil.
<S>
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Hey guys!
Just wanted to say you are doing a great job. If you have a CM opening I'm more then interested as well. Just give me two weeks to have my monster system up and running again =)
I owe HTC alot so this would be the least I can do.
Hening as far as orders go I thought my orders were very descriptive and out in plenty of time to practice. Not to mention the numerous emails sent out as well.
Sorry you feel the way you do about my mission not being organized. Oh well I'm sure you'll do a better job! :)
I hope I'm back to see how it goes!
Take Care!