General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: The Fugitive on May 11, 2019, 10:38:49 PM
Title: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 11, 2019, 10:38:49 PM
SMisles map tonight, logged on to just over 110 players. Great, small map, numbers arent bad for this map, maybe get a few hours of fun in. "Furball Island" in the center is going strong, Rooks out numbered pretty bad, players complaining about pickers while buffs are doing "deathstar" type runs over the center of the island. A player porking at A9.... no other cons there. 30k buffs headed to the ammo depot, Tu2s at 15k running into town at A8, CV group 15 miles west of A8. Our CV 10 miles SE of A40, a couple sets of dive bombing B25s ends that fight.
I up to head to A40, defenders plentiful. Come across 2 P51s under 5k dive in with my 190-A8 from 7k, ponys run "Surprise!" Second friendly joins in, get an assist on the first pony, never going to catch the second. High 190 comes in, his 15k+ vs me and the friendly at 5K (friendly is a P47). !90 turns out to be a 152, who makes 3 weak passes losing "E" as we continue to grab and gain "E". 152 makes another pass at me, co-alt, I nose down 1500 out, 152 pushes over to continue to get the HO and takes my tail off.
This is a vet who has played the game for years and yet all he can do is go for the HO, pushing into a red out for any chance at a few hits.
Its a wonder anyone bother to play this game any more. I know it wasn't worth my time, I logged and watched a NASCAR race. A lot more fun :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 11, 2019, 11:34:57 PM
if he got your tail it isn't a hot. you made a mistake by diving too early.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 11, 2019, 11:52:23 PM
Cool story, Bro. :old:
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: puller on May 12, 2019, 08:29:35 AM
Bad attitudes tend to rub off on other people...and your attitude is the worst...maybe keeping your thoughts to yourself is best for the game....
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: perdue3 on May 12, 2019, 10:51:03 AM
Sounds like you dove early, giving the 152 an easy shot. It is frustrating avoiding HO's, I know, but whining here does not help very much. Call him out on 200 and move on.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 12, 2019, 12:29:52 PM
The only point I was trying to make here is a spent 20-30 minutes in the game, US prime time, and found just over 100 players and of the first three players I came in contact with the first two ran, and the third did nothing but try to HO.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 12, 2019, 12:51:36 PM
so the first two ran, but you still managed to get an assist. you had alt on them guess you chased them with the help of a friend.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: pembquist on May 12, 2019, 01:09:05 PM
Fundamentally the game has many opportunities to be horrible, but so does life. What are you gonna do?
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 12, 2019, 01:22:12 PM
so the first two ran, but you still managed to get an assist. you had alt on them guess you chased them with the help of a friend.
semp
Twist it any way you want semp, 2 vs 2 they ran, then the 152 with 10k alt advantage did nothing by try to HO. A great representation of "stella" game play.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 12, 2019, 01:46:55 PM
Your story doesn't need any twisting to see you're easily disappointed. Very easily. 20-30 minutes and you rage quit over, basically, nothing.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Biggamer on May 12, 2019, 02:01:18 PM
wasting your time here fugi just find another game to play like most are doing the timid will have the arena to them self soon enough.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 12, 2019, 02:06:58 PM
wasting your time here fugi just find another game to play like most are doing the timid will have the arena to them self soon enough.
Nothing like bad advice to whizz out there, eh? Misery sure loves company.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Biggamer on May 12, 2019, 02:22:39 PM
Hey pickers and runners do it all day and we are forced to be stuck with it. if you like to turn fight the game gets boring real fast for you because its only runners now. are we supposed to stay and feed the pickers and runners fun even though they make no effort to mix it up once in awhile?
bots in the match play are more aggressive than humans in the MA kinda sad.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: bustr on May 12, 2019, 02:23:22 PM
I was on last night, and to get a fight, I flew the mother of all Jugs. The IL2 with views set so I can fruball. Last two years if I up to check a GVDAR I end up having to furball more than kill tanks. Soooo,, like clockwork a Ki84 and a Dora show up for the easy kill. Everyone calls in buddies when they see a lone Il2 on the deck. What is the difference on the deck between an IL2 and a Jug, the IL2 actually turns better and has gigantic guns that easily reach out to 1000.
Both made the mistake of thinking the IL2 is not nimble or can hit at 800 on a lead shot like a Jug can at 400. I out turned both, snap shot the Ki84 at 800 where it thought it was safe to turn back. Lead shot the Dora at 600 when it thought it was way too fast and nimble for me to turn and lead it as it curved past and under my nose. Then all my green guys showed up for the commotion and killed the tank I originally was looking for. I still had 35 of 100 cannon rounds which is more than enough for anything less than Tigers. I had tracers off which probably made the two fighters think I couldn't touch them 600-800 which made them fly stupid.
Then I went into the center island and furballed for several hours in a spit9 with 50% and a slipper tank which makes it perform like Levi's old super spit5. Then my squad showed up and romped around the map the rest of the evening. We had a blast and blew away all those HOing weenies and runners.
I told you Fugi you are welcome to join pig channle 152 as our guest and romp along with us. Once we get 5-6 pigs on, we romp around having no end to fun. Last night at peak we had about 12.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 12, 2019, 02:28:07 PM
^ Much better story. Inspiring and there's a valuable lesson in it. Thanks, Bustr. :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 12, 2019, 03:23:28 PM
I was on last night, and to get a fight, I flew the mother of all Jugs. The IL2 with views set so I can fruball. Last two years if I up to check a GVDAR I end up having to furball more than kill tanks. Soooo,, like clockwork a Ki84 and a Dora show up for the easy kill. Everyone calls in buddies when they see a lone Il2 on the deck. What is the difference on the deck between an IL2 and a Jug, the IL2 actually turns better and has gigantic guns that easily reach out to 1000.
Both made the mistake of thinking the IL2 is not nimble or can hit at 800 on a lead shot like a Jug can at 400. I out turned both, snap shot the Ki84 at 800 where it thought it was safe to turn back. Lead shot the Dora at 600 when it thought it was way too fast and nimble for me to turn and lead it as it curved past and under my nose. Then all my green guys showed up for the commotion and killed the tank I originally was looking for. I still had 35 of 100 cannon rounds which is more than enough for anything less than Tigers. I had tracers off which probably made the two fighters think I couldn't touch them 600-800 which made them fly stupid.
Then I went into the center island and furballed for several hours in a spit9 with 50% and a slipper tank which makes it perform like Levi's old super spit5. Then my squad showed up and romped around the map the rest of the evening. We had a blast and blew away all those HOing weenies and runners.
I told you Fugi you are welcome to join pig channle 152 as our guest and romp along with us. Once we get 5-6 pigs on, we romp around having no end to fun. Last night at peak we had about 12.
Bustr I hope to take you up on the offer soon. Flying with a group of guys just looking for fun is sorely missed. <S>
Hey pickers and runners do it all day and we are forced to be stuck with it. if you like to turn fight the game gets boring real fast for you because its only runners now. are we supposed to stay and feed the pickers and runners fun even though they make no effort to mix it up once in awhile?
bots in the match play are more aggressive than humans in the MA kinda sad.
Agreed, but while I hate being the fodder for the pickers and HOers, I imagine what a new players thinks about being the fodder. Im sure that is one of the things chasing away new players, as well as you and others that are just fed up with this poor game play.
Hows that post count coming? Do you have a number in mind or are you just looking to build it to unheard of heights? :devil
Oh dear. I post a lot. Take up Bustr on his offer and maybe you can either post less or post something worthwhile. :D
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: bustr on May 12, 2019, 03:36:40 PM
Remember that old Cindy Lauper song, girls just want to have fun? POTW just wants to break toys and kill their red guys. All that solo I am L33T in a fighter crap is just that. POTW hunts those guys when they get too irritating and towers them, then breaks the field we sent them back to. Then we up a hoard of 262 and wipe out their bomber missions to the strats. Used to on squad night but, lately the DickWeeds don't run them in Rookland anymore for some reason.... :huh Right now Waystin used up his 262 perks so we are helping him find red guys to farm perks. He still has to do the deed and clobber them himself man to man, we just make sure they can't run in their late war super running rides. He doesn't always survive and land perks but, we avenge him like pigs and make fun of him.
Get the point, we have been a squad at almost full membership for 15 years and play this game so we as a squad have fun. Not as lone wolf L33Ts, which is why we find lots of red guys to kill and break lots of their toys. Playing lone wolf invariable means you have to wait for others to setup your fun unless you are suicidal and like fighting 12v1. One lone wolf will not create a country vs country fight over a field like POTW creates. They will more likely be disappointed with the game, and grouse on 200 about how horrible it and Hitech are. Then start posts in these forums to expand on their unhappiness of the MA not being friendly for lone wolves anymore. And won't specify he is unhappy becasue he alone can't have fun playing alone with his L33Tness amazing the masses. The MA is caged match brawl where everyone does anything they can to survive. POTW understood that 15 years ago and why we are happy in the MA.
We are not on 7 nights a week, more like 4-5 and 3 of them will be with up to 12 guys sometimes more. We do FSO so Friday nights are a big deal and Saturday nights along with Tuesday squad night. The other nights 2-4 guys, we all have real lives. We show up for the squad and the fun, not to show off to the MA we is L33T and everyone else is not worthy crapola. The cobra cry babies took over that from the moopets.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 12, 2019, 03:41:38 PM
What I always wanted the JRs to do in the MA. :cry
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Max on May 12, 2019, 04:52:34 PM
Fugi take a few months off and do some cartoons in the meanwhile. I can give you a few ideas for subject material :rofl
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 12, 2019, 05:26:43 PM
Use to get a decent turn out my first go around, but most the guys are here for FSO. I’m trying to make regular MA appearances.
I'll see what I can do about rounding up another monitor and we'll wing up. :)
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: mERv on May 13, 2019, 02:14:37 AM
After all these years, when I was trying to promote this game and what opportunities it presented, this core group saw it only as trying to brag. Funny watching y'all eat each other alive :ahand Fugi has always been like this if it's not convenient he wants no part of it. If it doesn't fit his and his squad's agenda they want no part of it. If you don't fit their mold they don't want nothing to do with you. Look at yall now :neener: hell I switched to console games because of y'all and you thought I was the devil. Yet here I'm gone and it only got worse. Was a day and age when Skuzzy was around and would rule #4 they hell out of a thread like this and lock it quick.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Overlag on May 13, 2019, 05:01:43 AM
Nothing has changed, its always been that way?
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Oldman731 on May 13, 2019, 06:14:08 AM
Agreed. "Pickers." "Runners." "HO-[insert ugly word]." "Ack-runners." "Vulchers." "Gangers." These are terms that go back 30 years, perhaps more.
I logged on last night, for perhaps half an hour. There was a very intense fight going on in conjunction with an ultimately successful base takeover. I observed all of the above types of play. But I also had a couple of very fun fights - one against a 51, of all things - saw some people I hadn't seen in awhile, and had a most excellent time.
The game is what you make it.
- oldman
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 13, 2019, 06:24:12 AM
I logged in tonight, 20 people online, upped b24's hit the knights troop strats, nobody around. 20 something minutes of flying. was gonna hit bishops strats, with b24's noticed a bomber and fighter heading to a port nearby. bailed out upped a ponny, heavy, bombs and rockets. moved in that direction, heard on range that bombers were being hit by a fighter, i dropped bombs and headed to help the bomber, he said forget it keep fighter away from port. both bomber and fighter disappeared on dar and range dar. went back to port, took out some guns then noticed the guy behind me was actually a goon. he dropped troops then i noticed an m8 having a clear shot at the troops, i dove straight down fighting. m8 went down as i crashed on top of it. 10 seconds later we get message rooks win war. didnt even know it. i felt like I actually won the war. was like 30 minutes worth of logged in time. laughed for a while, was fun. dont you hate it when that happens.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Max on May 13, 2019, 06:42:13 AM
After all these years, when I was trying to promote this game and what opportunities it presented, this core group saw it only as trying to brag. Funny watching y'all eat each other alive :ahand Fugi has always been like this if it's not convenient he wants no part of it. If it doesn't fit his and his squad's agenda they want no part of it. If you don't fit their mold they don't want nothing to do with you. Look at yall now :neener: hell I switched to console games because of y'all and you thought I was the devil. Yet here I'm gone and it only got worse. Was a day and age when Skuzzy was around and would rule #4 they hell out of a thread like this and lock it quick.
Nobody beats The Wiz! :old:
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Traveler on May 13, 2019, 09:24:30 AM
Last I knew it takes two to HO.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: SysError on May 13, 2019, 12:00:15 PM
I love the IL2 but ever since it was remodeled a few years and the views were changed on what you can see, I have had a real hard time with the plane.
If I remember correctly, you could fly it in F3 mode with it back then.
Up your IL2 and change some of the views, F10 to save them. You will produce an il23.hps file in the sub folder of the game's settings called planes. Then open that file in notepad, copy and paste what I'm posting from my il23.hps file over the contents of your file. You don't like the results, delete the il23.hps file and you will be returned to the default HPS file settings for the game. I use TR in two axis mode which inherits the HPS file views as I pan my head around. Means I get the 6 view I set and save with F10 versus doing contortions in my computer chair.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: hgtonyvi on May 14, 2019, 03:12:57 PM
:rofl :rofl...Nothing new about the OP.....I can see the image in my head that you tried to HO the 152 and lost....you were in the 190a8 and thought you would explode him but ended up losing and you got frustrated and whined because you were in the sortie for quite some time. :neener: :neener:
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Shuffler on May 14, 2019, 04:39:31 PM
:rofl :rofl...Nothing new about the OP.....I can see the image in my head that you tried to HO the 152 and lost....you were in the 190a8 and thought you would explode him but ended up losing and you got frustrated and whined because you were in the sortie for quite some time. :neener: :neener:
Tony.... you better sell that polluting building.... stat. :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: SysError on May 14, 2019, 06:23:47 PM
Up your IL2 and change some of the views, F10 to save them. You will produce an il23.hps file in the sub folder of the game's settings called planes. Then open that file in notepad, copy and paste what I'm posting from my il23.hps file over the contents of your file. You don't like the results, delete the il23.hps file and you will be returned to the default HPS file settings for the game. I use TR in two axis mode which inherits the HPS file views as I pan my head around. Means I get the 6 view I set and save with F10 versus doing contortions in my computer chair.
Many Thanks!! :salute
Much better views than I came up with.
I think that for for me the IL2 might be "flyable" again.
:cheers:
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Vulcan on May 14, 2019, 07:13:27 PM
152 makes another pass at me, co-alt, I nose down 1500 out, 152 pushes over to continue to get the HO and takes my tail off.
As a serial HOer (Yak 9T makes a wonderful HO platform when you can vaporize people 1.5k out) I wouldn't class that as a HO. At 1.5k you nosed own, he had to nose down, so he would've been shooting from a hi 12 quarter.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 15, 2019, 02:02:08 AM
As a serial HOer (Yak 9T makes a wonderful HO platform when you can vaporize people 1.5k out) I wouldn't class that as a HO. At 1.5k you nosed own, he had to nose down, so he would've been shooting from a hi 12 quarter.
:rofl Yep...Do unto others as they do unto you! While I understand the frustration of being hoed....I try to learn how to both avoid AND capitalize on their mistakes! Sure, you will die OFTEN, till you get it down! Personally though...it was a valid ACM, HISTORICLLY speaking. Granted NOT SMART in the real life, it was a thing though. I dont understand that ARGUMENT(you are watermelon if you practice this), as deaths mean ZERO in game :uhoh
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 15, 2019, 02:20:22 AM
Fugi....I know we are aware of each others opinions on the matter...but it wont change! Sure "it takes 2 to ho" is just as true, as it was a USED TACTIC. Making those "Border Line" Ho shots, could mean life or death. Death means nothing in this game...its the BEST WAY to learn what you messed up on though(with film viewer)! I truly understand your frustrations...but if HONEST, can you really say that changing your "Merge Techniques" wouldnt help you to have a bit more FUN? It made a HUGE difference for me! I hate seeing players frustrated...my fear is losing you as a FOE/Allie over it! I would "Match Play" you till the Cows come home, to just have you experiment with merges and the inevitable HOs! YMMV but I learned a while ago, that the only reason I die...is that I messed up. So please try and fix you...before you blame us for your frustrations :uhoh
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 15, 2019, 09:19:53 AM
Fugi....I know we are aware of each others opinions on the matter...but it wont change! Sure "it takes 2 to ho" is just as true, as it was a USED TACTIC. Making those "Border Line" Ho shots, could mean life or death. Death means nothing in this game...its the BEST WAY to learn what you messed up on though(with film viewer)! I truly understand your frustrations...but if HONEST, can you really say that changing your "Merge Techniques" wouldnt help you to have a bit more FUN? It made a HUGE difference for me! I hate seeing players frustrated...my fear is losing you as a FOE/Allie over it! I would "Match Play" you till the Cows come home, to just have you experiment with merges and the inevitable HOs! YMMV but I learned a while ago, that the only reason I die...is that I messed up. So please try and fix you...before you blame us for your frustrations :uhoh
I'm not blaming you or anyone else for my frustration. I could name all 3 players that ran or pushed for the ho, but didn't. All 3 players are veteran players. I am very good at avoiding the ho, but while avoiding it I can still see that the other guy is doing nothing but trying to ho pass after pass.
The point of the post was to point out my experience in a single flight in the game. Imagine what a new player would think of that same flight. Veteran players need to do it better. Sure, we could all jump in a yak and ho the crap out of everyone but is that good for the game?
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 15, 2019, 09:51:25 AM
The point of the post was to point out my experience in a single flight in the game. Imagine what a new player would think of that same flight. Veteran players need to do it better. Sure, we could all jump in a yak and ho the crap out of everyone but is that good for the game?
Show me one other PvP game where if you step into a guy's sights, he does not pull the trigger.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: FLS on May 15, 2019, 09:59:29 AM
Hey pickers and runners do it all day and we are forced to be stuck with it. if you like to turn fight the game gets boring real fast for you because its only runners now. are we supposed to stay and feed the pickers and runners fun even though they make no effort to mix it up once in awhile?
bots in the match play are more aggressive than humans in the MA kinda sad.
Are the turn fighters all on the same side? You can't fight each other? :headscratch:
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: bustr on May 15, 2019, 02:09:33 PM
Last night squad night POTW went on a break things and tower red guys rampage, 12 of us were online. Much of Rookland got swept up in our herd and we took 5 feilds back to back. And we did it in garbage rides becasue of ENY and still kicked the late war sissies booties for all that speed and power didn't do for them. Five dorks in dora, K4 and 152 tried to hammer my 51B while playing hold the fat kid on the ground and HO him. Not being pigs and always hungry versus smart like POTW, I was able to land while they posed looking good, safe from the other green guys in garbage rides that showed up finally.
Long time ago when the Yak3 first came out I killed a muppet with a storch which PO'd him beyond belief. It cost me my storch but, I HO'd him with my rear end on purpose so I could shoot him in the face and watch his plane burn all the way to the ground. He blew up just as I hit the ground and received the kill credit. That is the essence of what POTW squad members are and why we just keep having fun with this silly game.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Biggamer on May 15, 2019, 08:44:20 PM
Are the turn fighters all on the same side? You can't fight each other? :headscratch:
9 outa 10 planes will just run away im not spending my time chasing people around the sky because they are scared to lose a cartoon airplane. maybe one day when the runners only have runners to fight they will see how boring it is. I play world of tanks now days and i have ran into atleast 30 former aces high players over there so i guess i aint alone on my thinking.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 15, 2019, 09:04:17 PM
9 out of 10 planes run. call extreme bs on that. you left, be gone. have fun in wot
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Biggamer on May 15, 2019, 09:21:32 PM
left not hardly i still do FSO but MA play time is pretty much 0 anymore. and you can call BS all you like dont change the the fact i spend 90% of my time chasing if im on.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 15, 2019, 09:32:05 PM
What is it you fly? What is it you won't? Plane-wise. There is a way you can have the red guys fly to you. :old:
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Biggamer on May 15, 2019, 09:40:31 PM
i fly the F6F Arlo
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: SPKmes on May 15, 2019, 09:43:34 PM
A question I ask a lot at present
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 15, 2019, 09:53:55 PM
left not hardly i still do FSO but MA play time is pretty much 0 anymore. and you can call BS all you like dont change the the fact i spend 90% of my time chasing if im on.
maybe because perhaps i dont. i dont play as much as i used to but then again i have fun. just the other day i won the war all by myself, well not really but I have fun thinking that lol.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: bustr on May 16, 2019, 02:03:06 AM
I think the real reason many left is not the runners but suddenly finding as the numbers dropped off after 2009, their real skill had been picking kills out of the large numbers before 2009. As the numbers dwindled, people ran from each other becasue those who stood and fought, towered them and rubbed their faces in their lack of ability without numbers to hide behind. Almost all air combat in the game today is based on trying to have alt and numbers or numbers in close proximity near the ground to keep smaller numbers at a disadvantage and not trying to go for their throat. POTW goes for the throat whatever we do and ends up with hoards where ever we start breaking things. None of us have ran away to WoT or other competitors, were have just gotten meaner and tower red guys as our reason for being in the MA.
I'm going to bet most of the players who ran away to other games could not make it work majority of their time in the MA trying to be a lone wolf hero. POTW towers people like Biggamer a lot when we are in the MA for squad sport. We used to wipe out the DickWeed bomber missions for sport on Tuesday nights with massed 262, now they stay out of our country for some reason.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: atlau on May 16, 2019, 02:40:23 AM
Bustr everyone of your posts come off as potw chest thumping. Often with no relevance to the OP thread.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 16, 2019, 02:54:04 AM
what bustr is trying to say in his own way is that when we fly together we have no problem finding fights. heck i logged in today and only 4 pigs online, still managed to get some kills. even 3 or 4 rooks manged to fly with goon about 2 sectors while bishops were busy trying to take rook fields we were defending. we took 5 or 6 bishop bases inside their territory.
I dont think pigs are unique in this area. lots of other rooks, knights and bishops were able to find fights and have fun.
semp
as for the dickweeds their squad night as 1 hour later than hours. we have been known to fly 4 or 5 sectors to find them. we dont pick on them, we just know that when we find them it will be a good fight. if they're coming towards us we will fight them on the way in and on the way out. they know that.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: pembquist on May 16, 2019, 09:56:58 AM
I don't runaway, I die a hell of a lot, my aim absolutely sucks all that's ok. The three things that irritate me are the vulching, the HOing, and the ganging.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 16, 2019, 10:56:31 AM
The real reason is because the MA is a dog eat dog atmosphere. If you 'fight' at the wrong time, you get jumped by another 4 who are also itching for that kill. If you blink incorrectly, you have 3 enemies on your 6 outa no where. People compensate (naturally) by flying faster planes with bigger guns. This makes the MA incredibly challenging. Literally .001% of the players would give you a 1v1 with their friendlies hanging around. Being fast is the single greatest advantage to stay alive. Now, when you have to fly 7 minutes to a field only to hope a con or 2 will roll, or you get blown away by manned ack in the first 3 minutes you get there, sortie is over and you have to fly another 7-10 minutes. In gaming world, that's a long time. This also means players want to stay alive longer in their sorties which leads to timid flying. Flying with a squad, especially as a new guy, is extremely beneficial. Extremely.
I would always try to avoid HOs at all times. I suck at HOing and die 90% of the time I try... Don't do it. People are desperate for kills and will literally do ANYTHING, instead gain the advantage on the Merge by avoiding the HO and then doing immelman around them. You will always get the jump on them because you get your nose up before them.
I think the smaller maps have been much more beneficial for #s. NDsiels actually had a good amount of players on last week, big and tuff fights.
Really the key to better your game is to learn defensive maneuvers so that you can evade and counter cons jumping your 6. This way, if a pesky BnZer overshoots, you can wack them on the overshoot. Yucca is very good at that.
It does get tiring when you have to climb to 15K every sortie and Chase P51s and 190Ds and La7s and Yak3s, but that's sometimes the name of the game. I think with smaller maps and closer bases, the alt monkeys will be less. If you get the players into a fight more quickly. It gives them less time to gain alt before they get to the fight and makes the action slightly quicker. They could also roll from a back base. But keeping fights close is really the key.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: bustr on May 16, 2019, 12:49:26 PM
I'm making a point about the MA of today versus the MA of yore used as the paragon of days gone by for the mood music in complaints. Most of the complainers today are trying to play lone wolf and failing. Then come in here and start posts like this telling Hitech he has screwed his own game becasue of x,y,z. Or, the same whine, in today's low numbers environment you can't play lone wolf and dazzle the rubes anymore unless you HO and run and never fight. The OP's have in common being stuck in the past and playing that way in the present MA while blaming it all on Hitech.
As for POTW examples, we have fun and always have fun especially if we decide to notice atlau or lone wolf players like him and make their evening, week or, tour unhappy. As a squad we have the ability to make our fun and be happy versus trying to play the game like it's still 2009 or alone at home in front of a consol showing off for the rubes against the dungeon boss's. Then lie to ourselves and blame Hitech for how everyone else plays in the MA instead of looking at how our own choice of play style is really working in today's MA.
You might not be a redneck(ACM Gauwd) if you ain't got the ACM god gave YUCCA. So maybe it's time to stop asking people to hold yer beer and handing yer head to the first three guys you meet every night. It was funny the first few times but, now mostly we feel sorry for the three guys. Heeers yur sign.................
Years ago when POTW started, being ACM guawds was never important to having our fun in the MA. It still isn't but, none of our pigs are sissy lone wolf back shooters like we hunt down and tower these days. And if we get into a 1 versus the whole dang country, we don't whine about it here in the forums or ch200. We just keep having POTW fun for our $14.95.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Biggamer on May 16, 2019, 02:28:11 PM
congrats bustr you need a hoard to hide behind to do anything. bragging you need 12 to 15 people to tower someone LOL
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Biggamer on May 16, 2019, 02:36:00 PM
your right bustr pigs are only full of ego filled players and need a hoard to do anything because junky is the only one who can hold his own. tell me something i dont already know now please
i guess i should have said a hand full of the pigs have egos and not all most are pretty laid back and cool cats. but bustr semp junky just try to trigger people for a response
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Biggamer on May 16, 2019, 02:51:53 PM
Thats the thing with this community they think nothing is wrong with the game. they think its the players no this game has not changed and that was its down fall and everytime anyone suggest anything they are eat up for it. and after awhile they see no change and only continue to be nagged at for every suggestion.
while all you guys set here and defend the no change everyone is leaving. WoT 4 am US central server 24,954 players thats not counting EU RU south america servers keep on telling your selfs there is no problem i found a back up game before this one goes under its only a matter of time how its still going now i dont know other then there is alot of people paying and not playing. and this thread like all jsut like ti has already gone off the rails and im done posting here because it a waste of time. as long as you guys are having fun screw everyone else.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 16, 2019, 03:13:40 PM
your right bustr pigs are only full of ego filled players and need a hoard to do anything because junky is the only one who can hold his own. tell me something i dont already know now please
i guess i should have said a hand full of the pigs have egos and not all most are pretty laid back and cool cats. but bustr semp junky just try to trigger people for a response
Forgot that broken shovel guy :D He tries, bless hims heart. That being said he is TOXIC. Definitely "Perma Squelch Candidate of The Year". :rofl I only have a problem with the players that believe the should be kill proof...and when shown otherwise, become serial keyboard commandos. THAT gets old and those who know my reasons get why I hate that stuff. Some players make it no fun to fight them...you win...you get blasted as a cheater. You lose...add your "derogatory name of choice". With player base being what it is now..to me these are the dangerous players to AH future :bhead You are correct though Biggamer, there are problems...way more than just 1 or 3. I believe however, that those changes need to be made BY US, the PLAYERS. Thats the hard part, everyone thinks they are the correct style of player. :uhoh People quit when "THEIR" fun dies...some hang on and deride the game at every opportunity...others just squelch,ignore and carry on. No fix-all in any of those options. Game is what you make of it and it saddens me to see that someones leaving ,is their only answer :uhoh
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 16, 2019, 03:59:20 PM
Thats the thing with this community they think nothing is wrong with the game. they think its the players no this game has not changed and that was its down fall and everytime anyone suggest anything they are eat up for it. and after awhile they see no change and only continue to be nagged at for every suggestion.
while all you guys set here and defend the no change everyone is leaving. WoT 4 am US central server 24,954 players thats not counting EU RU south america servers keep on telling your selfs there is no problem i found a back up game before this one goes under its only a matter of time how its still going now i dont know other then there is alot of people paying and not playing. and this thread like all jsut like ti has already gone off the rails and im done posting here because it a waste of time. as long as you guys are having fun screw everyone else.
let's talk about WOT, I played it for about 2 years. I probably spent about 700 bucks in those 2 years. have an account with several tier 10 tanks.
you know what happens in wot? they bring new tanks, now the tanks they bring are not based on reality. most are just based on napkin drawings. now those new tanks are made a bit better than whatever you have. you grind and finally get happy when you get one, then you have to grind, better armor, engine, guns, turrets... just when you get that tank that you saw was better you get into battles with tanks that are just a bit better, now you have to grind to the next tank, then you get in to a higher tier with better tanks. so you grind that whole line of tanks get to the top, then find out that now there's a new line of tanks that are better, so that line of tanks you grinded is now useless. so you have to grind that new line of tanks and start all over. unless of course you are one of the lucky ones that has lots of money or belong to a squad that plays and earns gold. now those squads that play in tournaments to earn gold many are rigged. lots of videos on youtube posted about squads winning and they are told to stand down, because there was an agreement that this match would be won by the other.
you want aces high to be like that? having to grind to a new plane you think is op only to find out that plane is useless because now a new plane came out that is better?
most of the changes proposed in ah3 are just stupid in my opinion. force players to fly eny 30 1 week, eny 20 next week. make players not run, i can tell you now unless i have an advantage I wont fight a zero with my pony. and I have never ho'd anybody that didnt point it's nose straight at me. if I fly a spit8 I dont expect a 190 to turn with me every time, i expect to be bnz'd to death. I dont fly into 3 or 4 players and expect a 1v1, just like if I take up a tank into a town I expect to be bombed. if I fly bombers I dont expect every pilot to come straight up my six, i expect 2 or 3 to do at the same time. the other day I dove from 10k past fighters that were low on the ground over town, i got the m3 just before he dropped troops, i climbed back up to 9k, made a circle and dove again past the fighters and got another m3. they took the base and i vulched 2 fighters as they were landing.
I make the best of the game as I see so I can have my fun. If I am not having fun doing this then I go do something else, if that doesnt make it fun for me then I'll go do something else. it always brings me a smile when I play late at night and there's like 15 people on line and i see no dar. so I up a heavy plane and go kill ords bunkers listening to "you light up my life". or up b24's and hit towns as I listen "what a wonderful wold".
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 16, 2019, 04:25:58 PM
Semp gets it. :) :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 16, 2019, 04:45:26 PM
while all you guys set here and defend the no change everyone is leaving. WoT 4 am US central server 24,954 players thats not counting EU RU south america servers keep on telling your selfs there is no problem
Yeah, but to take advantage of those numbers, you'd need to play WoT.
Personally, I don't want to see this turn into a "me too" WT or WoT. I want them to polish what they've got so it's attractive to more people.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: CptTrips on May 16, 2019, 05:11:29 PM
Personally, I don't want to see this turn into a "me too" WT or WoT. I want them to polish what they've got so it's attractive to more people.
Me either.
I'm more into addition rather than subtraction. I don't want to lose the good stuff AH has, I'd like to see more added that appeals to varying levels of skill, experience and taste.
What do you consider "polish"? Graphics? I think the current graphics are actually quite nice give the scale they have to support.
If AH had WT or DCS graphics, do you think the current market would still be ok with the time-to-action and game-play pace?
Do you think the 85% of players who try AH that don't even own a joystick will go out and buy HOTAS?
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: bustr on May 16, 2019, 05:17:41 PM
your right bustr pigs are only full of ego filled players and need a hoard to do anything because junky is the only one who can hold his own. tell me something i dont already know now please
i guess i should have said a hand full of the pigs have egos and not all most are pretty laid back and cool cats. but bustr semp junky just try to trigger people for a response
Seems the only person here with an ego at stake is you since you are the only one lit up. Junky is junky, the rest of us don't care about being Conon the barbiturate ego tweeker of the air in AH. That was junkies thing, pigs fight alone or as POTW becasue we have fun with each other's company and are not ego attached like you and junky to who has the biggest swinging small block 300 in the game. None of us needs to prove how good we are and don't care if we fight solo or tower you as a project to kill time. We towered your lone self like others when in the MA becasue you happened to be in the wrong place and Wasytin said "squirrel".
Today men and boys no longer define their manhood by their Chevy or Ford over quarter miles on deserted streets or by their abilities in team sports. Now it's my hairy pixels are bigger than your hairy pixels and I can piu, piu, piu better than you can in kiddy games. Can any of you imagine walking into a bar and saying to a girl, "hey baby look at how quick my thumbs are and baby I just got an RTX 8080 Ti and own all the other bunny slipper little geeks in my online game"?
I'm glad I didn't start playing AH until my 40's so I had no need to bet my manhood on a joystick. I got over my whatsis is bigger than your whatsis before this age of magical manly pixels suckered you and junky into believing children's games are a valid definition of your real world manhood. You have strapped your real world identity to a kiddy game while using an anonymous identity. Now you are trying to convince an audience of men mostly 40 and over to take your fantasy identity seriously.....
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: mERv on May 16, 2019, 05:24:07 PM
I think the real reason many left is not the runners but suddenly finding as the numbers dropped off after 2009, their real skill had been picking kills out of the large numbers before 2009. As the numbers dwindled, people ran from each other becasue those who stood and fought, towered them and rubbed their faces in their lack of ability without numbers to hide behind. Almost all air combat in the game today is based on trying to have alt and numbers or numbers in close proximity near the ground to keep smaller numbers at a disadvantage and not trying to go for their throat. POTW goes for the throat whatever we do and ends up with hoards where ever we start breaking things. None of us have ran away to WoT or other competitors, were have just gotten meaner and tower red guys as our reason for being in the MA.
I'm going to bet most of the players who ran away to other games could not make it work majority of their time in the MA trying to be a lone wolf hero. POTW towers people like Biggamer a lot when we are in the MA for squad sport. We used to wipe out the DickWeed bomber missions for sport on Tuesday nights with massed 262, now they stay out of our country for some reason.
I think the greatest loss over the last few years has been due directly to a loss in quality strategic play outside of large groups and the obliteration of the GV side of the game. Least we all forget it was the regular Bish players who started the HQ wars back in 2013. That system needed to change but to change so much along with it.... The game lost more players than because of it then the HQ wars themselves :( then add the update to AH3 and it was murder she wrote for many. If it wasn't for bustr and his new maps this game would be in serious trouble and I'm sure I speak for us all in that we are all grateful for what he has given to this community :aok
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 16, 2019, 05:38:51 PM
some people forget there's been lots of changes due to game plane. hq was one of them. people would destroy it just to upset the others. numbers would drop dramatically after hq was gone, many players left. all because some thought it would be funny to keep hq down for hours. gv dar came out of that and changes to hq down times.
another idea that was pretty good was proximity dar, if a friendly is nearby then everybody can see where the red cons are. that came from we see dar but we cant find them.
there's been lots of other ideas that have been in the game. some ideas are really bad and not implemented.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 16, 2019, 06:37:55 PM
some people forget there's been lots of changes due to game plane. hq was one of them. people would destroy it just to upset the others. numbers would drop dramatically after hq was gone, many players left. all because some thought it would be funny to keep hq down for hours. gv dar came out of that and changes to hq down times.
another idea that was pretty good was proximity dar, if a friendly is nearby then everybody can see where the red cons are. that came from we see dar but we cant find them.
there's been lots of other ideas that have been in the game. some ideas are really bad and not implemented.
semp
The changes made to save HQ from the dolts was a good change. The GV dar pin pointing a tank, not so much. After running some of these changes for a few months "most" people can figure out whether it did what it was intended to do or if it hurt the game/game play. Those that have hurt, should be adjusted, tweaked, or removed and replaced with something else.
GV Dar chased away most of the GV players. Bomber icons chased away most of the buff guys. These hurt, why cant they be "fixed"?
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 16, 2019, 08:19:39 PM
Actually, he doesn't. In semp's mind, if he's having fun the that means every thing is hunky dory with the game and doesn't need fixing.
We all know that is not true. There are serious issues with the game play and other aspect of the game that is keeping new players from sticking around more than a couple of hours.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 16, 2019, 08:35:15 PM
The changes made to save HQ from the dolts was a good change. The GV dar pin pointing a tank, not so much. After running some of these changes for a few months "most" people can figure out whether it did what it was intended to do or if it hurt the game/game play. Those that have hurt, should be adjusted, tweaked, or removed and replaced with something else.
GV Dar chased away most of the GV players. Bomber icons chased away most of the buff guys. These hurt, why cant they be "fixed"?
oh you were finished, well allow me to retort, what does Marcellus Wallace look like...
ever spent 20 minutes flying around town looking for a gv? I have and never found it until i moved away and he started shooting again, then i knew the general direction, he was hiding under a single damn tree. this has happened many times. gv dar gives you a general area, but not where in that area. lots of other players have spent countless hours looking for a gv that had shut down and wasnt moving. also the gv dar doesnt tell you if it is a tank or a werbie, have found many werbies that i never saw till they opened fire and got me. it's a give and take. I cant just demand that werbies show up from 6k just because they hurt my game.
as for bomber dar, I dont know ask the dickweeds they seem to have no problem with it blowing up crap and stuff. bomber dar wont show unless enemy nearby, otherwise it's a dar bar. I have no problem sinking cv's which is when i up bombers the most.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 16, 2019, 08:56:04 PM
Actually, he doesn't. In semp's mind, if he's having fun the that means every thing is hunky dory with the game and doesn't need fixing.
We all know that is not true. There are serious issues with the game play and other aspect of the game that is keeping new players from sticking around more than a couple of hours.
actually i have never said everything is right. there's things I dont like about the game. for example the yak3 seems indestructible. but you guys seem to think that the main thing wrong with the game is how the other player flies whatever plane he's in. I dont like to be ho'd, simple dont point your nose at them. he runs, well either get a faster plane to chase him down, or say I'll see you in a bit, you will come back. I dont like being in a 4v1, dont dive into a bunch of red cons, or dont let the red cons get above you.
when i used to fly bombers more often, you know how annoying it was to hurt a fighter pretty good and he would dive and go ditch or land, but god forbid I bailed my bombers because i didnt feel like/want fighting. hundreds of fricking threads about bomb and bailing, and you guys didnt see anything wrong with that fighter choosing to run away to deny me a kill. he should have stayed till either he kill me or he died. just like he wanted me to not bail so he could get a kill.
I have lots of other things I dont like about the game. but just because I dont like it, it doesnt mean it's not good for somebody else or the game.
like I said I found ways to make the game fun for me. fugitive has been asked many times to fly with us to maybe see what makes the game fun for us.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 16, 2019, 09:12:56 PM
Actually, he doesn't. In semp's mind, if he's having fun the that means every thing is hunky dory with the game and doesn't need fixing.
We all know that is not true. There are serious issues with the game play and other aspect of the game that is keeping new players from sticking around more than a couple of hours.
oh you were finished, well allow me to retort, what does Marcellus Wallace look like...
ever spent 20 minutes flying around town looking for a gv? I have and never found it until i moved away and he started shooting again, then i knew the general direction, he was hiding under a single damn tree. this has happened many times. gv dar gives you a general area, but not where in that area. lots of other players have spent countless hours looking for a gv that had shut down and wasnt moving. also the gv dar doesnt tell you if it is a tank or a werbie, have found many werbies that i never saw till they opened fire and got me. it's a give and take. I cant just demand that werbies show up from 6k just because they hurt my game.
as for bomber dar, I dont know ask the dickweeds they seem to have no problem with it blowing up crap and stuff. bomber dar wont show unless enemy nearby, otherwise it's a dar bar. I have no problem sinking cv's which is when i up bombers the most.
semp
Well first off, I wouldnt spend 20 minutes looking for a GV unless I was in a GV. Second, making it a bit easier for a bomb**** to find a GV vs GV having a chance to sneak and fight with each out..... which do you think is better for the game? You spend 20 minutes looking for a single GV, if there are 6-8 GVs shooting at each other how much easier would it be to spot a GV? I think its better game play even if all those guys STAY in GVs. more players, more options.
Ask the Dickweeds..... LOL!!! Yup there are pretty much the ONLY buff group left, I guess they are the only ones we CAN ask.
like I said I found ways to make the game fun for me. fugitive has been asked many times to fly with us to maybe see what makes the game fun for us.
semp
And I have found ways to make the game fun for me..... other wise I would be gone. I have flown with some of you guys many times. Winged with Bustr, Way, even flew cover as you spotted GV for me a couple times. Monster is a long time friend. I hope every Tuesday to clear up the time to fly a squad night with you guys, it sounds fun.
Im not trying to pick you out of the crowd, but like Ack Ack said, just because you are having fun doesnt mean everyone else is, and that is the issue these days. It seems fewer players are having fun any more and have moved on or not bothered to put in the time it takes to get to below average in the MA. I believe these things could be fixed by HTC. Hitech has tweaked things before due to game play issues..... NOE, HQ raids and such. It time to make some changes, or remove some of the changes they added before that just dont work any more, or never did.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 16, 2019, 10:18:59 PM
fugitive you are one of the most negative players in this game. every other post you have is "people are leaving the game, game will be dead soon...."
you wouldnt have spent 20 minutes looking for a gv, unless in a gv? hilarious. yes I am heading into town, in my gv to find a single tank that has his engine off, while he can hear me which direction I am coming from. I turn a corner, puff back in the tower. or I up a plane look around try to find it and give directions to the gv's nearby. see you just assumed i was the only one there. most of the time I am not.
but seriously, what do you suggest that can be coded into the game that would make it better for the game. get rid of gv dar? 2 days ago we stopped bishops cold because 3 or 4 guys took back 2 of our bases closer to the bishop front line using gv's only. bishops didnt bother to protect it. then they made a 2 sector base take with a bomber, fighter, goon. from then on, 4 more bishop bases fell, all to gv's. bishops were to busy protecting rook bases to bother protecting their own.
I had fun, pretty sure those people taking bishop bases had fun. bishops had fun defending the bases they had taken from us. not sure about the knights as I didnt look at the other side.
dont you think most of those bishops/rooks involved their had fun on their own way?
like I said, i look for ways to have fun. think most of the players around look for ways to have fun. we dont think game is perfect but we dont whine and moan at every other thread because things dont go our way. that's your job, i think.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 01:13:00 AM
Actually, he doesn't. In semp's mind, if he's having fun the that means every thing is hunky dory with the game and doesn't need fixing.
We all know that is not true. There are serious issues with the game play and other aspect of the game that is keeping new players from sticking around more than a couple of hours.
C'mon Ack. You know better. You will never see a 'perfect' AH that tickles everyone's fancy full-on. It's a sandbox with toys. Players that complain about how other players use the sandbox and toys don't really have issue with the sandbox and toys, at all. 'Oh, HT, program the other players to make me happier!' Heh. Neh.
As far as the game being too hard to learn - we all know better there, as well. Now, starting out as a brand new player and expecting to be one of those solo super-aces, that's just unrealistic. If a new player has that frame of mind, of course their gonna quit when their ego gets too bruised. HT has already incorporated game assistance videos into the interface. A pre-teen with a mere smidgen of curiosity and patience could figure out the bare basics of getting a plane in the air and firing its guns at bad guys in less than an hour.
Of course, when they do see the text buffer filled with announcements by veterans of the game that say things like 'This game is broke!' or 'Nobody wants to fight me!' or the last straw kind that tells everyone that they're rage quitting for the day/knight/week/forever ... well ... that's the self-fulfilling environmental stench the new player is left with. Run `em off and blame Dale.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 17, 2019, 01:55:21 AM
got curious decided to download world of tanks again. 2 hours and I am still waiting for it to update and I have a fast connection. tried to play ah but wot is taking most of my connection, it didnt look pretty. even youtube skips most of the videos. so sometime in the next hour I should be able to play wot.
of course I'll have to start at the bottom because i havent played for like 3 years and all my tanks are probably obsolete by now. I'll let you guys know how it goes sometime in the next 2 hours.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 17, 2019, 02:53:12 AM
Played wot about 10 battles, same as I remember, everybody rushes to shoot as much as they can without regards to strategy. 5 minutes battles are over.
yup, so much better game.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Shuffler on May 17, 2019, 09:38:59 AM
I tried wot. I thought it sucked.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: whiteman on May 17, 2019, 09:50:56 AM
There was nothing enjoyable about 5 minute match’s with zero strategy. Kill as many as you can to grind the equipment tree, repeat the process. I like the open sandbox where I can can do what I want as I please without the prototype make believe aircraft. There are things that could change here but the overall product is more appealing to me.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: ACE on May 17, 2019, 10:05:52 AM
The only thing I think that could be adjusted is ENY value and perked rides. That’s a solid way to effect gameplay. I don’t know exactly how to implement it but I feel it’s the right direction.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 17, 2019, 10:24:30 AM
The company that publishes that game takes advantage of those numbers every day.
So does Blizzard with World of Warcraft. My point is, the majority of the people who are playing those games are not a ready-made set of people who would just pop over into an open-world giant arena PvP game. There's a big difference between people who will play round after round of WT for 20 minutes at a time and people who want to look at a map and figure out what to do for their play session.
Quote
What do you consider "polish"? Graphics? I think the current graphics are actually quite nice give the scale they have to support.
I personally don't think the graphics are a huge issue, but I do believe for the majority playing those other games, they don't care about the scale, all they see is "Other thing shiny. This thing less shiny."
To me, new guy experience and ease of configuration are the elephant in the room. A really excellent in game run through to get your basic controls, communication, and views set up I think is probably the biggest thing they could do to help get people into the game. Mouse controls would be high on the list as well I guess although frankly I don't see how you make mouse and keyboard equal to a full HOTAS/pedals/VR setup.
Personally I wouldn't even bother trying to get/keep the people that want to have 5 fights in 10 minutes after upping. Making the game something like that isn't going to happen without completely restructuring the game. Maybe more varied town/field layouts to work with would be a plus.
Beyond that, more vehicles. Fill out the planeset with more stuff that can be used in FSO and scenarios.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: CptTrips on May 17, 2019, 10:55:41 AM
Mouse controls would be high on the list as well I guess although frankly I don't see how you make mouse and keyboard equal to a full HOTAS/pedals/VR setup.
Which is why I suggested a separate mouse optimized arena. According to Hitech's data, up to 3000 people a month try AH that don't have a joystick. 75% of them don't stay 30 min. Of course I was just jumped on by the usual NO-Police. :rolleyes:
Beyond that, more vehicles. Fill out the planeset with more stuff that can be used in FSO and scenarios.
More vehicles might help. I'm not against more planes, but we have a huge plane set. I can't see how one more obscure Italian fighter would bring in hundreds of new players.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 17, 2019, 11:18:15 AM
Which is why I suggested a separate mouse optimized arena. According to Hitech's data, up to 3000 people a month try AH that don't have a joystick. 75% of them don't stay 30 min. Of course I was just jumped on by the usual NO-Police. :rolleyes:
More vehicles might help. I'm not against more planes, but we have a huge plane set. I can't see how one more obscure Italian fighter would bring in hundreds of new players.
One might not. A few might, depending on what new possibilities they opened up for FSO/scenarios. Not so much bring in, but might bring back if it got the scenario scene hopping.
My only issue with a mouse arena is, it doesn't improve the MA. May as well be a different game.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: CptTrips on May 17, 2019, 11:35:32 AM
One might not. A few might, depending on what new possibilities they opened up for FSO/scenarios. Not so much bring in, but might bring back if it got the scenario scene hopping.
I'm not against new planes, but they probably represent a very large investment of effort for all the 3d work involved, etc. In a perfect world, you would have any plane you ever saw a reference to in any WWII history no matter how arcane. In the real world you have to weigh the large expenditure of labor cost vs the benefit. How many planes in the current hangar almost never get flown, at least in the melee? The majority? What other work has to be forgone while you do that?
My only issue with a mouse arena is, it doesn't improve the MA. May as well be a different game.
So, I think a lot of the disconnect between us is that what you are saying is from your point of view what you want as a customer. What "you" want. What "you" like. That is completely valid. You are a customer.
A lot of what I talk about isn't necessarily always what "I" want or what "I" like as a customer. A lot of what I suggest is from a pure mercenary business point of view what I think HTC might need to do to remain solvent for another decade. There is only so long they can last with the same 1500 old toothless geezers that have been around since 1999 without adding new players. I say that as a proud toothless geezer. ;)
I would never fly in a mouse-only arena, but 85% of the people who try AH don't have a joystick and don't stay 30 min. I'd like to see HTC capture some of that potential revenue so they can go on another decade hosting FSO, Historical Scenarios, and the finest hi-fidelity WWII simulation on the market.
But you have to be able to pay the light bill.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 17, 2019, 11:49:44 AM
I'm not against new planes, but they probably represent a very large investment of effort for all the 3d work involved, etc. In a perfect world, you would have any plane you ever saw a reference to in any WWII history no matter how arcane. In the real world you have to weigh the large expenditure of labor cost vs the benefit. How many planes in the current hangar almost never get flown, at least in the melee? The majority? What other work has to be forgone while you do that?
So, I think a lot of the disconnect between us is that what you are saying is from your point of view what you want as a customer. What "you" want. What "you" like. That is completely valid. You are a customer.
A lot of what I talk about isn't necessarily always what "I" want or what "I" like as a customer. A lot of what I suggest is from a pure mercenary business point of view what I think HTC might need to do to remain solvent for another decade. There is only so long they can last with the same 1500 old toothless geezers that have been around since 1999 without adding new players. I say that as a proud toothless geezer. ;)
I would never fly in a mouse-only arena, but 85% of the people who try AH don't have a joystick and don't stay 30 min. I'd like to see HTC capture some of that potential revenue so they can go on another decade hosting FSO, Historical Scenarios, and the finest hi-fidelity WWII simulation on the market.
But you have to be able to pay the light bill.
Why not just make a microtransaction idle game then? Why try to shoehorn AH, which has proven to be less than widely popular, into something it isn't?
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: atlau on May 17, 2019, 11:49:58 AM
Regarding the mouse only arena... how many other flight aims (not arcade games) have a playable mouse mode? I cant even takeoff flying with a mouse. It is beyond my comprehension how lazer can do it. Unless hes fooling us all!
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: CptTrips on May 17, 2019, 12:10:15 PM
Why not just make a microtransaction idle game then? Why try to shoehorn AH, which has proven to be less than widely popular, into something it isn't?
Wiley.
First, when suggesting a separate mouse-only arena, I am not suggesting any changes to the current melee arena. I am instead talking about adding additional content that would appeal more to the mouse users.
What ever changes you would like to see in the melee or don't want the see in the melee are a separate issue.
For what ever reason, AH is currently seeing traffic of ~3000 mouse-only users a month that have downloaded the game and have tried it but not stayed more than 30 min. From a business side of things, I see that as a potential revenue stream that should be tapped. I was suggesting a way you might could try and access that revenue without having to make undue compromises in the regular melee.
You may or may not get that traffic with a new game, but you are getting that traffic here. I just think would be nice to monetize that opportunity if you could do so without breaking the main product.
If it didn't dumb down the melee, why would you be against a mouse-only arena? Why would you be against HTC grabbing some of that revenue if they can? The vast majority of work needed to support that has already been done. The pieces are mostly all there, they just need to be put together with a little glue coad.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 17, 2019, 12:22:05 PM
For what ever reason, AH is currently seeing traffic of ~3000 mouse-only users a month that have downloaded the game and have tried it but not stayed more than 30 min. From a business side of things, I see that as a potential revenue stream that should be tapped. I was suggesting a way you might could try and access that revenue without having to make undue compromises in the regular melee.
It's assuming an awful lot to say a mouse only arena would catch them. IMO it's a combination of not what they're looking for and the new guy experience again.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: CptTrips on May 17, 2019, 12:30:44 PM
It's assuming an awful lot to say a mouse only arena would catch them. IMO it's a combination of not what they're looking for and the new guy experience again.
Wiley.
There is no guarantee it would, but it would be an attempt to do so that might be justified if it could be done with a reasonable amount of effort and without degrading the main melee arena.
The only guarantee is that the current approach is NOT capturing any of those 3000 mouse-only users.
I just don't understand the hostility to even making the attempt.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 17, 2019, 12:40:03 PM
There is no guarantee it would, but it would be an attempt to do so that might be justified if it could be done with a reasonable amount of effort and without degrading the main melee arena.
The only guarantee is that the current approach is NOT capturing any of those 3000 mouse-only users.
I just don't understand the hostility to even making the attempt.
Simply put, let's say HT puts in the effort. New guy logs in, sees
Melee arena (89/1000) Mouse Only Arena(5/1000)
Was it worth it? If a change can't be integrated into the MA, a side arena is unlikely to be able to hit critical mass for fun. Heck, depending what people are up to, sometimes the MA doesn't hit critical mass for fun for people in the air.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 12:47:25 PM
I just don't understand the hostility to even making the attempt.
Air sim 'puritans.' I used to be one, myself. It's almost as if letting players in that didn't invest in a joystick first would pollute or ruin the game. Now I don't care if they can fly with a game controller, mouse or a hair curler and like the game enough to help pay to keep it alive and kicking.
That being said, we all know that AH allows for mouse flight. Maybe there's worry that a separate 'for mouse only' arena might out-populate the arena full of guys who've made this a lifetime hobby and invested in very expensive HOTAS gear to maintain an edge. What's it matter? Either it'll be an arena that drives revenue or an arena that has a couple of guys that haven't bought a joystick (even the cheapo kind like mine) yet.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: CptTrips on May 17, 2019, 12:57:57 PM
Simply put, let's say HT puts in the effort. New guy logs in, sees
Melee arena (89/1000) Mouse Only Arena(5/1000)
Was it worth it? If a change can't be integrated into the MA, a side arena is unlikely to be able to hit critical mass for fun. Heck, depending what people are up to, sometimes the MA doesn't hit critical mass for fun for people in the air.
Wiley.
That's one possible outcome.
Another might be, the new use is detected as only having a mouse and a dialog box pops up welcoming them and suggesting as a mouse-only user they first try the Mouse-Pilot Arena. They see that dialog before they even get to the normal clipboard. In there they can fly in a reasonably level playing field against other mouse-pilots and you could even populate the with additional AI targets that are toned-down to mouse-pilot appropriate levels. They might also then go try the melee and get slaughtered helplessly. They can at least go back to the mouse arena and so maybe they won't leave completely within 30 min.
Keep in mind, you probably are seeing more mouse-only players EVERY MONTH, MONTH AFTER MONTH, than there are current subscribers total.
If 10% of those give the Mouse-Pilot Arena a try, you might see:
Melee arena (89/1000) Mouse Only Arena(300/1000)
Maybe some of those will stay for a full two-week trial. Maybe they will tell friends about a fun game they found. Maybe some will decide to also buy a joystick and try the melee.
Maybe some will subscribe.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 17, 2019, 01:05:20 PM
Another might be, the new use is detected as only having a mouse and a dialog box pops up welcoming them and suggesting as a mouse-only user they first try the Mouse-Pilot Arena. They see that dialog before they even get to the normal clipboard. In there they can fly in a reasonably level playing field against other mouse-pilots and you could even populate the with additional AI targets that are toned-down to mouse-pilot appropriate levels. They might also then go try the melee and get slaughtered helplessly. They can at least go back to the mouse arena and so maybe they won't leave completely within 30 min.
Keep in mind, you probably are seeing more mouse-only players EVERY MONTH, MONTH AFTER MONTH, than there are total current subscribers total.
If 10% of those give the Mouse-Pilot Arena a try, you might see:
Melee arena (89/1000) Mouse Only Arena(300/1000)
Maybe some of those will stay for a full two-week trial. Maybe they will tell friends about a fun game they found. Maybe some will decide to also buy a joystick and try the melee.
Maybe some will subscribe.
This is all predicated on the idea that they log in and get slaughtered by vets because they have mice, then leave.
Of those 3000, how many of them got off the ground? How many got on the runway? How many were able to communicate with anybody before they logged?
This is about the same as the people saying the new guys left because of the toxic people in the community. How many of those new people even get to the point of being exposed to what you're saying they're leaving over?
We've been told the number of people passing through and that they don't have joysticks. What we haven't been told is why they leave.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 01:09:33 PM
This is all predicated on the idea that they log in and get slaughtered by vets because they have mice, then leave.
Of those 3000, how many of them got off the ground? How many got on the runway? How many were able to communicate with anybody before they logged?
Lets say Hitech fixes all that.
Let's say he adds step by step walk through for a mouse pilot teaching them everything they need to do to get off the ground and fly with a mouse.
Let's say every mouse pilot is assigned a personal trainer for their first week to help them get up to speed and baby sit them every second for the first week.
Do you think the average mouse pilot, rare virtuosos aside, will have a good user experience or feel there is a fair level playing field in the melee?
You are well experienced in the game. Would you be willing to fly in the melee for the next year with only a mouse? How much fun, with your years of experience and understanding all the mechanics and how to communicate and ask questions, how much fun would you find flying a mouse against the current melee population for say a year as a test?
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 01:18:19 PM
Like this (it's one of the videos incorporated in the interface)?
Yeah, but people are ancy to get in the game and play.
I always prefer games that let me do it while they are explaining. OJT.
That video did remind me that bombers (and vehicles) are probably something they could do in the melee with mouse only and be competitive. But that is probably not most people first choice. Most people probably try a fighter.
:salute
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 01:30:42 PM
Yeah, but people are ancy to get in the game and play.
I always prefer games that let me do it while they are explaining. OJT.
That video did remind me that bombers (and vehicles) are probably something they could do in the melee with mouse only and be competitive. But that is probably not most people first choice. Most people probably try a fighter.
:salute
It plays from the clipboard map extension so I see no reason for it to prevent them from doing while it plays.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: CptTrips on May 17, 2019, 01:37:22 PM
It plays from the clipboard map extension so I see no reason for it to prevent them from doing while it plays.
It is not enough. It is more than we had, it is WAY less than most other games on the market do. It's got to be in game, and walk them through setup. A couple of the better ones I've seen were in Elite Dangerous and DCS. I've also seen FPS's that basically went "Ok, look up. Now down. Now left. Now right. Start your engine." and just mapped whatever you did, then said, "To change this stuff later go here in the menu."
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Spikes on May 17, 2019, 01:56:09 PM
Like the idea I keep seeing that suggests there be some sort of training added to the game for beginning players? :D
But clearly it is not good enough if players are not sticking around.
Something I've seen other games do are a literal walkthrough of how to fly. Optional onscreen tutorials would not hurt, especially for a game as complex as ours (the entire assortment of keyboard binds where every key has some sort of function, rather than a FPS that's WASD, 123, and click.
PUBG has a help screen that you can leave up while playing that says what each button does. Might not be a bad idea for us, make the transparency adjustable and it can be turned off in preferences.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 01:57:10 PM
As I said, Dale, its never quite good enough. :D
(Funny how not one person in the discourse about how training films need to be incorporated into the game once said, "Oh, I didn't know HT added these. Well, good." Instead we immediately get "No, that's not good enough.")
:old:
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 17, 2019, 01:59:25 PM
(Funny how not one person in the discourse about how training films need to be incorporated into the game once said, "Oh, I didn't know HT added these. Well, good." Instead we immediately get "No, that's not good enough.")
:old:
Because it isn't. I've known the videos were there since they were posted. IMO it's a bandaid.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 02:05:28 PM
Because it isn't. I've known the videos were there since they were posted. IMO it's a bandaid.
Wiley.
I find it rather disheartening, on a society level, that you guys feel the game needs that much minutia based beginner coddling when, in fact, it really doesn't. The tools are there. They don't even have to be searched for. And yes, this all started with forum dwellers asking for exactly what was already there .... then, when it became apparent such existed (to all but you, it seems) demanding more. :aok
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 17, 2019, 02:14:14 PM
I find it rather disheartening, on a society level, that you guys feel the game needs that much minutia based beginner coddling when, in fact, it really doesn't. The tools are there. They don't even have to be searched for. And yes, this all started with forum dwellers asking for exactly what was already there .... then, when it became apparent such existed (to all but you, it seems) demanding more. :aok
Yeah yeah yeah. Kids today. The tools are there even without the videos. It doesn't mean people are going to use them. It's got to be as effortless as possible. You can complain that people don't have the can-doitiveness to look through menus or watch Youtube videos on how to do it, or you can make it easier for them like most other games these days have.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 02:21:42 PM
Yeah yeah yeah. Kids today. The tools are there even without the videos. It doesn't mean people are going to use them. It's got to be as effortless as possible. You can complain that people don't have the can-doitiveness to look through menus or watch Youtube videos on how to do it, or you can make it easier for them like most other games these days have.
Wiley.
When you log onto the game and the training videos boot right then and there (which they do) then it really doesn't get much easier, to be honest. All of them run about 3-4 minutes each and cover step-by-step how to play the game. It runs off the clipboard and has to be manually stopped by the player.
I'll say it, if nobody else will. Thanks, Dale, for incorporating that. It was actually ahead of the demand. But then, you're never really ahead of the demand when everyone decides they need to make an impact.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: waystin2 on May 17, 2019, 02:23:33 PM
I spent my first 3-4 months in Aces High building a 3 ring notebook full of stuff from Soda's site, the AH site, DokGonzo's site, and several other aerial combat related sites. I actually nerded out on the genre, the game and the planes and vehicles. In addition to my academic studies there was real life flight studies where I was getting clubbed to pieces by Muppets, Jokers, Rolling Thunder, Claim Jumpers and a whole list of other unsavory characters. No one is going to watch a tutorial or have their hand held and have that sort of practical experience, plane knowledge, or muscle memory given to them in a short amount of time.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 17, 2019, 02:24:16 PM
When you log onto the game and the training videos boot right then and there (which they do) then it really doesn't get much easier, to be honest. All of them run about 3-4 minutes each and cover step-by-step how to play the game. It runs off the clipboard and has to be manually stopped by the player.
I'll say it, if nobody else will. Thanks, Dale, for incorporating that. It was actually ahead of the demand. But then, you're never really ahead of the demand when everyone decides they need to make an impact.
Yeah, with the retention rate of new people logging in, clearly they're working.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 02:26:59 PM
Yeah, with the retention rate of new people logging in, clearly they're working.
Wiley.
How long do you recall these videos being incorporated into the clipboard map? We've been talking about the 'instant gratification' issue of the wrong generation, its starting to sound.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 02:29:19 PM
I spent my first 3-4 months in Aces High building a 3 ring notebook full of stuff from Soda's site, the AH site, DokGonzo's site, and several other aerial combat related sites. I actually nerded out on the genre, the game and the planes and vehicles. In addition to my academic studies there was real life flight studies where I was getting clubbed to pieces by Muppets, Jokers, Rolling Thunder, Claim Jumpers and a whole list of other unsavory characters. No one is going to watch a tutorial or have their hand held and have that sort of practical experience, plane knowledge, or muscle memory given to them in a short amount of time.
^ :aok It may have more to do with love of the game/genre versus lack of.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 17, 2019, 02:38:15 PM
How long do you recall these videos being incorporated into the clipboard map? We've been talking about the 'instant gratification' issue of the wrong generation, its starting to sound.
It was not long after the Steam release, wasn't it? So between 1 and 2 years? How much time does it take for a 3 minute video to work?
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 02:42:06 PM
Perhaps you might oughta ask yourself if the supposed lack of training tools for new players was the culprit, after all?
When someone doesn't stick for more than a minute or two, what's your theory?
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: whiteman on May 17, 2019, 02:52:26 PM
5 minutes, I’ve never downloaded any game and gave it less than 24 hours. I could even start to imagine what is going through someone’s head that only put in 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 03:05:45 PM
When someone doesn't stick for more than a minute or two, what's your theory?
Wiley.
Not that it hasn't been covered by more than a dozen souls on the forum so far. Pick one:
The new player really is used to a game that is not only instantly gratifying but one where they can excel at from day one.
They're just not that into old airplanes, man.
They check it out just long enough to see what it is then blow it off as not free to play or worth their time.
We aren't just a niche market, we are a selective player population.
I'm sorry if none of the above makes for an 'easy fix' like, say, an amazing interface being coded into the game by HT to help ADD kids learn to like Aces High. It may be more of a marketing call that needs to be honed to target more perspective players that fit the profile of the Aces High addict. We're older than most players. We like online dog-fighting games but we also like the mud moving aspect the GVer aspect and a few of us the ship operations aspect. Some of us even like WWII history and events. The true competition out there is slim, when you take into consideration the elements that make AH unique. The modeling, the plane set, the open arena format. Warbirds is still out there, right? WWIIonline? There should be active coaxing of both those populations. Possibly from World of ______, as well. Specific individuals that would likely fit in with our player population should be scoped out.
There is no miracle cure. It would take effort and would be a community wide thing. And yes, making sure new people have fun, friends and personal connection with the community in and out of game would be essential.
(I'm guessing this might not be what you hoped for .... in one way or another.)
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 17, 2019, 03:23:13 PM
Quote
but you guys seem to think that the main thing wrong with the game is how the other player flies whatever plane he's in.
semp
Don't lump me in with players like Fugitive or violator who think forcing people to fly a certain way is the solution. The way people fly isn't the problem with the game.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 17, 2019, 03:24:51 PM
Not that it hasn't been covered by more than a dozen souls on the forum so far. Pick one:
The new player really is used to a game that is not only instantly gratifying but one where they can excel at from day one.
They're just not that into old airplanes, man.
They check it out just long enough to see what it is then blow it off as not free to play or worth their time.
We aren't just a niche market, we are a selective player population.
I'm sorry if none of the above makes for an 'easy fix' like, say, an amazing interface being coded into the game by HT to help ADD kids learn to like Aces High. It may be more of a marketing call that needs to be honed to target more perspective players that fit the profile of the Aces High addict. We're older than most players. We like online dog-fighting games but we also like the mud moving aspect the GVer aspect and a few of us the ship operations aspect. Some of us even like WWII history and events. The true competition out there is slim, when you take into consideration the elements that make AH unique. The modeling, the plane set, the open arena format. Warbirds is still out there, right? WWIIonline? There should be active coaxing of both those populations. Possibly from World of ______, as well. Specific individuals that would likely fit in with our player population should be scoped out.
There is no miracle cure. It would take effort and would be a community wide thing. And yes, making sure new people have fun, friends and personal connection with the community in and out of game would be essential.
(I'm guessing this might not be what you hoped for .... in one way or another.)
I never said it was a magic bullet, I'm just saying when you look at what happens in this game when you log in for the first time versus how most everything else in gaming in the last 5 years works when you log in for the first time, it doesn't look great. To me, the interface and new guy experience are an identifiable thing that could easily be improved.
I agree with your last 3 bullet points are likely factors, especially it being a niche market. I agree with whoever said it up thread, though. The learning curve isn't much of a problem. There's plenty of people willing to devote all kinds of time to a game if it grabs them.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 03:24:58 PM
The way people fly isn't the problem with the game.
^Hear hear! :cheers:
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 17, 2019, 04:02:50 PM
Just about every one of you guys, makes EXCELLENT POINTS. Even from different perspectives, GV, Air and Tactical points of view. Most, if not All...actually make sense. Seems to me, that the Competitive Nature of our COMMUNITY translates to the forum as well. No one is 100% correct and No one is 100% wrong. Maybe, we are just talking past each other and should take some time to digest the different ideas posed? Meaning, its not all UP TO DALE? Every one posting their ideas is doing it for THE LOVE of THE GAME. Maybe we should give each other some credit for TRYING before just shouting each other down? The GAME is the reason we are all still here, isnt it? I dont have to be correct on every issue and I see positive things from even some of the more negative postings. Maybe I am just weird...I am ok with that. I love the WAR..but hate the STRIFE. I also believe part of the problem is, that we are such a small group, Personalities and Quirks are well known and creep into folks determinations of the points made by those we dont really care for personally. Issues will never be solved unless all sides take a deep breathe and leave personal opinions of others out of the discussions. This bothers me the most...but most of you know that already. :salute
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: atlau on May 17, 2019, 04:09:01 PM
Just about every one of you guys, makes EXCELLENT POINTS. Even from different perspectives, GV, Air and Tactical points of view. Most, if not All...actually make sense. Seems to me, that the Competitive Nature of our COMMUNITY translates to the forum as well. No one is 100% correct and No one is 100% wrong. Maybe, we are just talking past each other and should take some time to digest the different ideas posed? Meaning, its not all UP TO DALE? Every one posting their ideas is doing it for THE LOVE of THE GAME. Maybe we should give each other some credit for TRYING before just shouting each other down? The GAME is the reason we are all still here, isnt it? I dont have to be correct on every issue and I see positive things from even some of the more negative postings. Maybe I am just weird...I am ok with that. I love the WAR..but hate the STRIFE. I also believe part of the problem is, that we are such a small group, Personalities and Quirks are well known and creep into folks determinations of the points made by those we dont really care for personally. Issues will never be solved unless all sides take a deep breathe and leave personal opinions of others out of the discussions. This bothers me the most...but most of you know that already. :salute
Well said.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 17, 2019, 04:45:51 PM
Don't lump me in with players like Fugitive or violator who think forcing people to fly a certain way is the solution. The way people fly isn't the problem with the game.
I have never said that players should be forced to play a certain way. I do believe that players should be forced AWAY from game play that isnt good. The HQ raids, the endless NOEs, these are things that were bad for the game, and HTC adjusted settings to do away with them, forcing them to play different ways.
I love the "sandbox" setting of the game, but where are the squad missions? Where are the team missions? Where are the co-ordinated attacks? Where are the big battles that use to feed the lonewolf/sharks? Where are the tank battles that we had on Greebos map, tanktown and A85? Where are the epic sea battles that dont end with kamikasi lancs? Same goes for the ship to shore battles. Where are the squads that actively look for new guys and work to train them up? All of this and more has disappeared from the game. Our sandbox only seems to have a few toys left, HO, picks and runners.
The game has lost the "reason" all these other options were viable. It has been watered down to the simplest version of "win the war" you can get.
1. get more people in the game. ....advertise, social media, youtube. 2. retain these new people...... have a default mouse, game pad setting, model it off other games that these players use, make it "familiar" 3. get rid of GV dar icons on the maps, change view range to help spot vehicles with out being in gun range, add a darbar for GVs. 4. get rid of the plane icons and go back to the dots. Too much info pin points buffs and especially goons.
Just a few things I think would help a great deal. Social media and youtube is a no brainer. Whether you like youtube, Facebook, Twitter or not the majority of the rest of the world is hooked into it, use it to draw them in.
Having a default setting for a mouse and gamepad that is all set to make it as easy as possible to fly right out of the box is a must. Makeing the main buttons to match other games makes it familiar and easy for the new guys to get rolling. views with a mouse user should be A,S,W,D.
The big red arrow (box) pointing at a GV saying "Here I am!" is what caused most of the GV guys to leave. Put a darbar in for the GVs so players will be alerted that a GV is in the sector, but not point right at them. This way the GV gets some of its "stealth" back, but with a "vis range" closer to what we use to have they wont be invisible.
The plane icons are the same thing. Buff hunters will have to watch ALL icons not only vector strait to the "buff". This give the buff guys a better chance it they plan there route good enough which I think is a big part of flying a buff.
Just small changes, but bring back the action will go a long way to help keeping new players.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 04:56:25 PM
I have never said that players should be forced to play a certain way. I do believe that players should be forced AWAY from game play that isnt good. The HQ raids, the endless NOEs, these are things that were bad for the game, and HTC adjusted settings to do away with them, forcing them to play different ways.
Come across 2 P51s under 5k dive in with my 190-A8 from 7k, ponys run "Surprise!" Second friendly joins in, get an assist on the first pony, never going to catch the second. High 190 comes in, his 15k+ vs me and the friendly at 5K (friendly is a P47). !90 turns out to be a 152, who makes 3 weak passes losing "E" as we continue to grab and gain "E". 152 makes another pass at me, co-alt, I nose down 1500 out, 152 pushes over to continue to get the HO and takes my tail off.
Its a wonder anyone bother to play this game any more. I know it wasn't worth my time
What settings by HT do you suggest to handle the situation in the post you started all this with?
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 17, 2019, 05:20:06 PM
What settings by HT do you suggest to handle the situation in the post you started all this with?
If we had double or triple the players playing we do now I would think Id run into that stuff a lot less often. While not a fix, it could help players find more "good" action as apposed that that type of action.
Im sure a great coder like Hitech could come up with ways to add incentives so players would run less, and maneuver for shots other than HOs. Perks, accolades, achievements, bonuses all could turn players away from poor game play.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 05:24:24 PM
If we had double or triple the players playing we do now I would think Id run into that stuff a lot less often. While not a fix, it could help players find more "good" action as apposed that that type of action.
Im sure a great coder like Hitech could come up with ways to add incentives so players would run less, and maneuver for shots other than HOs. Perks, accolades, achievements, bonuses all could turn players away from poor game play.
Participation trophies and booby prizes. If I could earn perks for getting shot down as well as shooting others down I would have lots and lots of perks. I could also earn the accolade/achievement 'Damned good sport, he was completely aboveboard.'
I'm convinced.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 17, 2019, 05:31:10 PM
fugitive, what's the difference between running or trying? how would you code that?.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 17, 2019, 06:21:27 PM
Don't lump me in with players like Fugitive or violator who think forcing people to fly a certain way is the solution. The way people fly isn't the problem with the game.
I'm not forcing people to 'fly' a certain a way. I want to perk or reduce usage of specific planes by using eny to reduce the easiest planes in the game that make gameplay stale. That's your fallacy. A guy can fly a 190A5 exactly the same as a 190D, they just have to try harder when someone jumps their 6.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 17, 2019, 06:55:33 PM
Participation trophies and booby prizes. If I could earn perks for getting shot down as well as shooting others down I would have lots and lots of perks. I could also earn the accolade/achievement 'Damned good sport, he was completely aboveboard.'
I'm convinced.
All those things are what makes the world go round in todays gamer.
fugitive, what's the difference between running or trying? how would you code that?.
semp
Dont know, not a coder, but how about "IF plane A extends beyond 3k and does not land within 5 minutes half perks, awards, achievments are lost/removed"
Coding can do anything, you just have to write it.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 06:58:53 PM
Dont know, not a coder, but how about "IF plane A extends beyond 3k and does not land within 5 minutes half perks, awards, achievments are lost/removed"
Coding can do anything, you just have to write it.
How will the code know a plane is extending or which plane is plane A (out of all the red guys within 3k)? This is not a trick question but it is a tricky one.
P.S. We have indeed delved into the realm of forcing players to fly in a manner you approve of, btw.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 17, 2019, 07:05:58 PM
How will the code know a plane is extending or which plane is plane A (out of all the red guys within 3k)? This is not a trick question but it is a tricky one.
even trickier would be how can two planes rtbing pass each other. no ammo fuel to fight. both lost 1/2 the perks.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 17, 2019, 07:13:45 PM
even trickier would be how can two planes rtbing pass each other. no ammo fuel to fight. both lost 1/2 the perks.
semp
Pilot wounds are never obvious to the opponent, either. I have successfully made the trip home and it took more than 5 minutes. I always kinda felt that deserved some perks all its own. ;)
Ah, but coding can fix all perceived misbehavior.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Max on May 17, 2019, 08:11:09 PM
Don't lump me in with players like Fugitive or violator who think forcing people to fly a certain way is the solution. The way people fly isn't the problem with the game.
What is?
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 17, 2019, 08:39:24 PM
How will the code know a plane is extending or which plane is plane A (out of all the red guys within 3k)? This is not a trick question but it is a tricky one.
P.S. We have indeed delved into the realm of forcing players to fly in a manner you approve of, btw.
Twist it any way you want, how does the game know "Fugitive" shot down "Semp"? Its all in the code.
Twist it any way you want, how does the game know "Fugitive" shot down "Semp"? Its all in the code.
If two planes pass under 300 ft and do not shoot, no engagement, no penalty.
Again, coding can do anything, you just have to write it.
I would so milk your idea. fly within 300 feet of an enemy fire a couple of shots, go to the next fire a couple more, I would land like hundreds of perks without actually killing anybody.
but seriously those who run, dont go within 300 feet it's more like 2k. anything can be coded, but the point is, would all the coding and wasted time be really worth it? think you need to think a bit more on your idea. I bet I can come up with a way to go around the coding while running.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: HL117 on May 17, 2019, 09:43:38 PM
Hello Fellas,
Wanted to jump in and say Hi, read through the post tonight, some good stuff, since I have not played in a while thought I would comment on why I loved playing and what kept me coming back:
Check DAR first, find the biggest fur ball, then port into the nearest base, my favorite nights were finding out where a squad like say Muppets were working, then up from the opposing base, if you loved the furballs then you knew there would be several players you could count on to give you a great fight, no worries about HOs, merging multiple time without a HO was to be expected, seriously! - guys would even pair off to fight, their perspective squad mates would let the two go at it, usually no interference, those were great nights to me and happened over and over again, so Yes I feel for you Fugi, if you cannot get any of that now days I would be unhappy.
I am glad the game is still up and you guys are still here, I may never come back but it nice to have the option.
Cheers,
HL
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 18, 2019, 03:55:40 AM
BOWLMA really doing a great job of sucking right now... too big.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 18, 2019, 09:40:13 AM
I would so milk your idea. fly within 300 feet of an enemy fire a couple of shots, go to the next fire a couple more, I would land like hundreds of perks without actually killing anybody.
but seriously those who run, dont go within 300 feet it's more like 2k. anything can be coded, but the point is, would all the coding and wasted time be really worth it? think you need to think a bit more on your idea. I bet I can come up with a way to go around the coding while running.
semp
LOL!!! first I dont think you get perks unless you get a kill or assist, but the point of this coding is to make engaging more profitable whether it be for score, perks, or any other incentive. If you want to be run wuss, go for it, nobody is forcing you to not to be one. With the coding you get something extra for being/running missions, for working together as a squad, for taking bases as a group, for hitting strats as a group, for engaging in tanks and making it out to land them and so on.
Gamers today thrive on perks, points, achievements, "stars" and so on. Create rewards for not running, not HOing, for not ganging and more and more players will work toward winning them. Will it stop running and HOing and such, hell no. There will always be players that would "fly within 300 feet of an enemy fire a couple of shots, go to the next fire a couple more, I would land like hundreds of perks without actually killing anybody." :rolleyes: but many more would work to avoid that behavior much like the HQ porkin and the endless NOEs. You can still do both, but it really isnt worth it any more.
More importantly is fixing the game so a new player can come in and be flying with a mouse or gamepad in 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: PropNut on May 18, 2019, 03:23:21 PM
:airplane: Okay Just found this thread , first off I was the 152 and Fugitive's story doesn't jive with what happened. I was at 20K 400mph in the 152 which is the typical 20-22K cruising altitude for the 152, after all it is a high alt. bomber interceptor and not a dog fighter, I dropped in to make some 550+ mph passes at the 190 and P47 after the third pass I buzzed the tail off of Fugitive's 190 my approach was down from the top from at least 20 degrees in a large radius high "G" turn firing blind which explains the loss of his tail after all it only takes one 30MM hit to do exactly what happened , we were never head-on. I am amazed that an honest merge kill caused so much whining I think he was disappointed that I didn't get slow and fall prey to him and his P47 buddy but that's just not the way to survive in a 152, I cant believe that this whole thread was established on that incident , Fugitive I would suggest you do like most adults in this game and when you get swatted out of the sky just learn something grab another beer go find the tail you lost and re-up. Honestly whining is just a major weakness. :ahand
PropNut
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 18, 2019, 03:44:16 PM
propnut wait, fugitive is trying to fix the game. he's on a roll, don't get him distracted.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 18, 2019, 04:09:43 PM
:airplane: Okay Just found this thread , first off I was the 152 and Fugitive's story doesn't jive with what happened. I was at 20K 400mph in the 152 which is the typical 20-22K cruising altitude for the 152, after all it is a high alt. bomber interceptor and not a dog fighter, I dropped in to make some 550+ mph passes at the 190 and P47 after the third pass I buzzed the tail off of Fugitive's 190 my approach was down from the top from at least 20 degrees in a large radius high "G" turn firing blind which explains the loss of his tail after all it only takes one 30MM hit to do exactly what happened , we were never head-on. I am amazed that an honest merge kill caused so much whining I think he was disappointed that I didn't get slow and fall prey to him and his P47 buddy but that's just not the way to survive in a 152, I cant believe that this whole thread was established on that incident , Fugitive I would suggest you do like most adults in this game and when you get swatted out of the sky just learn something grab another beer go find the tail you lost and re-up. Honestly whining is just a major weakness. :ahand
PropNut
.....and had I just pulled up a bit we could have been dead on HO and thrown cannons at each other for another "joust". Thats the point, I kept avoiding your HO attempts. The OP is still true, 2 ponies ran and you spent a number of runs trying to HO. Please note I also didnt mention any names as this isnt anything to do with "calling out tards" The point is the game has degenerated into nothing but runners, pickers, and HOers.
Id love to see the action put back into the game. Heck Id be happy if they could double the numbers on the weekends even if everyone still flew like crap.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: PropNut on May 18, 2019, 06:18:54 PM
It wasn't a HO it was a top shot , I know your smarter than to HO a 152 even in an A8. It was a merge shot that anyone would have taken , sorry I disagree with your analysis. PropNut
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: icepac on May 20, 2019, 08:17:44 AM
It takes two to "HO".
The original air combat doctrine manual states it.
6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to evade his onslaught, but fly to meet it.
If you fly at an opponent, don't get mad because he turns into your attacks.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Someguy63 on May 20, 2019, 12:31:45 PM
Is there anyone here who can recommend a good book?
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Lusche on May 20, 2019, 12:35:09 PM
:rock The Killer Angels, otherwise known as, GETTYSBURG in Cellulose/DVD formats. I wish that they would have been able to finish the whole series of Movies. Took some time I guess, and actors moved on. Along with lack of desire to watch historical "Big Screen Movies". To me, BEST there is. Didnt seem to be done as Propaganda and both sides of the ordeal were covered and explained. Most that I "MAKE" watch those 2 films, come away with a whole different attitude towards the subject. :cheers:
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: CptTrips on May 20, 2019, 03:25:13 PM
:rock The Killer Angels, otherwise known as, GETTYSBURG in Cellulose/DVD formats. I wish that they would have been able to finish the whole series of Movies. Took some time I guess, and actors moved on. Along with lack of desire to watch historical "Big Screen Movies". To me, BEST there is. Didnt seem to be done as Propaganda and both sides of the ordeal were covered and explained. Most that I "MAKE" watch those 2 films, come away with a whole different attitude towards the subject. :cheers:
The movie was pretty good. I still liked the book better, but that would have been a high bar to exceed.
Never saw Gods and Generals. Heard it was a yawner. I just got The Last Full Measure to listen to on Audible.
(Oh, if they would just make a good movie of Rendezvous with Rama I could die happy.)
:salute
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Shuffler on May 21, 2019, 03:11:38 AM
Is there anyone here who can recommend a good book?
"Hell I Was There", a book about my wife's relative of some time back. William "Bill" McDonald, Texas Ranger. You can see plenty about him at the Texas Ranger Hall of Fame in Waco Texas.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: BLINK on May 21, 2019, 08:23:10 AM
you know I gotta say....it certainly does NOT take 2 to ho....thats absurd to even suggest that...
a HO is a head on shot....if someone flies straight at you with NO ACM he is HOing you...period...no matter how you want to try to explain it away.... I mean seriously guys how long have you been playing?
and there is really Nothing "wrong" with this game...
the game mechanics are there for some amazing fun...heck I find a fight pretty much every time I log...but I do not care about dying so...I just find the biggest red dar and go fight my arse off....
yup fugi is right most dive away and run as soon as they don't have an advantage...which is silly because no body really dies and you wont get better doing that...although there most certainly are those that still fight....
it wasn't so bad when the numbers were in the few hundreds...now it is glaring because of the low numbers....
most people like easy... i mean the game I have on google play store... is just a simple endless runner...and people think it is too hard.... :rolleyes:
this game...fighting.... is not easy... heck for a noob who has never flown just taking off isnt easy....
THAT is why the numbers are down.... people are weak...weak willed...weak spirited...just weak... and this game is Challenging to the point of being damn hard....to actually kill people...most are in hordes...Aiming is hard...flight mechanics are not arcady.... yet it is easy to fight the "war" dropping bombs on cities.... the war never changes....its simple and mindless....that's what most do...hmmm wonder why....
you want a good challenging time...fly with me for a bit.... hahaha
guaranteed 99% wont want to..... even if they say they want "action"....
that's my .02
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 21, 2019, 04:13:41 PM
The movie was pretty good. I still liked the book better, but that would have been a high bar to exceed.
Never saw Gods and Generals. Heard it was a yawner. I just got The Last Full Measure to listen to on Audible.
(Oh, if they would just make a good movie of Rendezvous with Rama I could die happy.)
:salute
Well, I guess for some...yawner. It covered more than 4 days, so was broad based. When it came to the different battle scenes though...just as good as Gettysburg,IMO. It really dealt with the differences between North and South and the attitudes that lead to conflict. For me it made watching Gettysburg have a new layer of insight/understanding. Especially when it dealt with the individual Generals who were friends. Really drives the Brother vs Brother dynamic. Favorite scene in GAGs....Jackson rides up to a Cannon battery and the Officer(Pendalton) tells Jackson,," The boys have named the guns. Mathew, Mark,Luke and John!". Jackson responds," I have no doubt that your boys will do their upmost, to Spread The Gospel". It was just one of those scenes, showed how both sides saw what they were doing as the RIGHT THING. I agree though...books are ALWAYS better
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 21, 2019, 05:03:45 PM
you know I gotta say....it certainly does NOT take 2 to ho....thats absurd to even suggest that...
a HO is a head on shot....if someone flies straight at you with NO ACM he is HOing you...period...no matter how you want to try to explain it away.... I mean seriously guys how long have you been playing?
and there is really Nothing "wrong" with this game...
the game mechanics are there for some amazing fun...heck I find a fight pretty much every time I log...but I do not care about dying so...I just find the biggest red dar and go fight my arse off....
yup fugi is right most dive away and run as soon as they don't have an advantage...which is silly because no body really dies and you wont get better doing that...although there most certainly are those that still fight....
it wasn't so bad when the numbers were in the few hundreds...now it is glaring because of the low numbers....
most people like easy... i mean the game I have on google play store... is just a simple endless runner...and people think it is too hard.... :rolleyes:
this game...fighting.... is not easy... heck for a noob who has never flown just taking off isnt easy....
THAT is why the numbers are down.... people are weak...weak willed...weak spirited...just weak... and this game is Challenging to the point of being damn hard....to actually kill people...most are in hordes...Aiming is hard...flight mechanics are not arcady.... yet it is easy to fight the "war" dropping bombs on cities.... the war never changes....its simple and mindless....that's what most do...hmmm wonder why....
you want a good challenging time...fly with me for a bit.... hahaha
guaranteed 99% wont want to..... even if they say they want "action"....
that's my .02
Exactly, just because I maneuver, twist, turn, dive away, if the other guy is still pushing for a HO its still a HO attempt. Maybe propnut dosent KNOW any alternatives.
Perhaps instead of "my approach was down from the top from at least 20 degrees (vertical or horizontal? Im thinking horizontal as you were at the bottom of your loop as I dove under you)in a large radius high "G" turn firing blind" you could have pulled up either left or right from the run at 1000-1200 out rolling your plane to keep me in view and chopping your throttle to drop in behind me as I evaded. There other options to use than "to make some 550+ mph passes at the 190 and P47". Believe it or not the 152 turn well. "MOOT" was a master at turn fighting in it. Seeing as you were fighting to other planes not known for their turning abilities you could have made a fight out of it. Which is the whole point of the tread.
Dont be a runner, picker or HOer. Fight!
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Oldman731 on May 21, 2019, 09:31:43 PM
Exactly, just because I maneuver, twist, turn, dive away, if the other guy is still pushing for a HO its still a HO attempt. Maybe propnut dosent KNOW any alternatives.
PropNut has been here for quite a long while. He's an excellent stick and an honorable guy. Don't underestimate him. He knows his alternatives.
And, taking a line from Top Gun...He got you, didn't he?
- oldman
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: icepac on May 21, 2019, 11:46:52 PM
The problem is that some feel that them flying straight at someone isn't a HO but, when their opponent dares to do the same, they consider it a HO.
A HO is a legit tactic and is responsible for my dad returning home instead of having more gunnery runs than the 13 he dodged from a mig17. Dad didn't fly a dead on HO but rather flew what looked like he would pass without a firing solution but the mig pilot underestimated how much a skyraider can yaw.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: waystin2 on May 22, 2019, 11:07:29 AM
We all take front quarter shots. Even those who say they don't. I have been in game long enough to have been shot in the front quarter by most if not all of you. I am cool with that. If you got me, I own it. I have and will if given an advantageous situation continue to do the same to you. It's not my first shot choice, but it is useful depending on the situation. I fly in the mains to kill red guys and blow stuff up-basically to train for FSO and special events. I am not there to meet that special someone that I can have that truly special "follow all the rules" air combat fight love of my lifetime.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Spikes on May 22, 2019, 11:22:01 AM
We all take front quarter shots. Even those who say they don't. I have been in game long enough to have been shot in the front quarter by most if not all of you. I am cool with that. If you got me, I own it. I have and will if given an advantageous situation continue to do the same to you. It's not my first shot choice, but it is useful depending on the situation. I fly in the mains to kill red guys and blow stuff up-basically to train for FSO and special events. I am not there to meet that special someone that I can have that truly special "follow all the rules" air combat fight love of my lifetime.
Pretty much this. I don't like the head-on because it's a low % chance of survival (well, 50/50 basically), unless it's some advantageous matchup like a competitive plane vs. a non-competitive one, but even in that case a head-on shot isn't necessary.
I don't mind taking front-quarter shots either, but again that is sort of match-up dependent as well as how outnumbered I am. :)
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 22, 2019, 06:28:46 PM
If that was the case, then the game wouldn't have troubles retaining new players past the trial period.
Yaknow I disagree. It's still a great game. It's just hard. The learning curve is steep. But wasn't it always? Heck that's what drew me to it (air warrior before this) in the first place--and kept my interest all these years. I was in it for the challenge. That much hasn't changed a bit. If it was easy I would have ditched it long ago like a Gameboy or something!
I think what's changed is today's gamer. They want to jump into a game--any game, any genre -- and be able to compete if not "win" right away. If they can't, they move on to something else where they can. And there are myriad options to them these days. So that's a problem right there. Short attention span theater.
So what's the answer? Dumb this game down in the hope a few might stick with it? I don't know what else you could do. I hope not. That'd kill it for me!
Sent from my Moto Z2 Force using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 22, 2019, 07:38:16 PM
Yaknow I disagree. It's still a great game. It's just hard. The learning curve is steep. But wasn't it always? Heck that's what drew me to it (air warrior before this) in the first place--and kept my interest all these years. I was in it for the challenge. That much hasn't changed a bit. If it was easy I would have ditched it long ago like a Gameboy or something!
I think what's changed is today's gamer. They want to jump into a game--any game, any genre -- and be able to compete if not "win" right away. If they can't, they move on to something else where they can. And there are myriad options to them these days. So that's a problem right there. Short attention span theater.
So what's the answer? Dumb this game down in the hope a few might stick with it? I don't know what else you could do. I hope not. That'd kill it for me!
Excellent post and I think you're right on. What'll keep this game alive (or kill it) is the player community, itself.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: whiteman on May 22, 2019, 07:56:34 PM
I think players now like the instant action, flat learning curve and pretty graphics. I don’t think flight physics mean anything to them. Maybe rolling back some of the changes that ran people off like noe dar level and gv dar. People are either going to fight or not, rules forcing seem to have push people away.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Oldman731 on May 22, 2019, 10:11:08 PM
Yaknow I disagree. It's still a great game. It's just hard. The learning curve is steep. But wasn't it always? Heck that's what drew me to it (air warrior before this) in the first place--and kept my interest all these years. I was in it for the challenge. That much hasn't changed a bit. If it was easy I would have ditched it long ago like a Gameboy or something!
I think what's changed is today's gamer. They want to jump into a game--any game, any genre -- and be able to compete if not "win" right away. If they can't, they move on to something else where they can. And there are myriad options to them these days. So that's a problem right there. Short attention span theater.
So what's the answer? Dumb this game down in the hope a few might stick with it? I don't know what else you could do. I hope not. That'd kill it for me!
In keeping with tradition, Drano often gets to the heart of the problem.
- oldman
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 23, 2019, 12:18:55 AM
I think players now like the instant action, flat learning curve and pretty graphics. I don’t think flight physics mean anything to them. Maybe rolling back some of the changes that ran people off like noe dar level and gv dar. People are either going to fight or not, rules forcing seem to have push people away.
NOE dar level is same as when I started 65' with radar..200 (even heard 250') with radar down. Either way its same as 2014 AH2. GV dar well yes, could do with out it. Its not too hard to hide with it though. Think most blow it up without experience, to be truthful. Its still a big area to be looking for a GV, shut down and in the trees. Still necessary(a bad idea,me thinks) and used by some, the AHFILM finder. So for me it isnt any different, if the want to find ya, they will :uhoh
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Biggamer on May 23, 2019, 10:08:15 AM
i honestly dont think the learning curve is any bigger here then it is on the other games if you wanna play at a high level they all have a big learning curve the difference is other games you are in combat most of the time so you are learning all the time here you are on climb out or RTB or chasing someone for a new player you spend 10 mins on climb out die in 2 turns and start over so you got what 20 seconds of learning time thats the problem you spend too much time doing nothing its not the dang learning curve being any bigger.
also the UI is very bad the ENTER key should open and close the text buffer like on almost every other game also most other games use TAB or M to open the map.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Drano on May 23, 2019, 10:55:09 AM
Yeah but that's just the nature of this kind of game. Other games have periods of general nothingness too. I watched my son in law playing call of duty or something like spent a lot of time just picking around the area looking for stuff. Not engaged with anybody and there were a dozen around him - - doing the same thing! Eventually he gets zapped by somebody hiding under a bridge. Bam! Twenty minutes of hiking around followed by two tenths of a second of combat! I'm sure our GV crowd can relate! So it is what it is. Can't hate the game - - whatever the game may be. But ya can hate the player. Because it seems these guys are everywhere, in every game. The game is what you make it and that's something each player decides. Make rules? Change arena settings? They'll find a way around them.
As for the UI I don't know what you could do to dumb that down. It's a flight sim and there are a lot of things to configure.
Sent from my Moto Z2 Force using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Arlo on May 23, 2019, 11:28:59 AM
Yeah but that's just the nature of this kind of game. Other games have periods of general nothingness too. I watched my son in law playing call of duty or something like spent a lot of time just picking around the area looking for stuff. Not engaged with anybody and there were a dozen around him - - doing the same thing! Eventually he gets zapped by somebody hiding under a bridge. Bam! Twenty minutes of hiking around followed by two tenths of a second of combat! I'm sure our GV crowd can relate! So it is what it is. Can't hate the game - - whatever the game may be. But ya can hate the player. Because it seems these guys are everywhere, in every game. The game is what you make it and that's something each player decides. Make rules? Change arena settings? They'll find a way around them.
As for the UI I don't know what you could do to dumb that down. It's a flight sim and there are a lot of things to configure.
Sent from my Moto Z2 Force using Tapatalk
Bridge camping is lazy, unfair and not at all good for the game! Fix COD now! :D
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: icepac on May 23, 2019, 02:40:09 PM
In real life, they spent an hour or more headed toward their 3 seconds of combat and then either dying or riding a chute into the hands of the enemy. Of course, their combat experience was often coming in at 30k feet only find the enemy above them.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 23, 2019, 02:43:03 PM
In real life, they spent an hour or more headed toward their 3 seconds of combat and then either dying or riding a chute into the hands of the enemy.
It's a game. The time to fight is a popular thing to harp on. Personally I don't mind it all that much because the open world gives us options in how we want to approach the fight, but it's one of the reasons the game is less popular than others.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Drano on May 23, 2019, 03:13:18 PM
About the only aspect of this game that's closer to what the short attention span crowd would be looking for is combat challenge. Air spawns literally a minute away from the battle area, fairly well matched planeset, lather rinse repeat.
Shame it only runs on the week FSO is off. Strangely, it's fairly well attended while attempts at a regular fighter town arena in the past had seen mostly crickets. Go figure.
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Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Wiley on May 23, 2019, 03:21:25 PM
About the only aspect of this game that's closer to what the short attention span crowd would be looking for is combat challenge. Air spawns literally a minute away from the battle area, fairly well matched planeset, lather rinse repeat.
Shame it only runs on the week FSO is off. Strangely, it's fairly well attended while attempts at a regular fighter town arena in the past had seen mostly crickets. Go figure.
Sent from my Moto Z2 Force using Tapatalk
I'd expect that's because it's expected there will be a decent amount of people on both sides participating in the same way.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 23, 2019, 03:25:21 PM
About the only aspect of this game that's closer to what the short attention span crowd would be looking for is combat challenge. Air spawns literally a minute away from the battle area, fairly well matched planeset, lather rinse repeat.
Shame it only runs on the week FSO is off. Strangely, it's fairly well attended while attempts at a regular fighter town arena in the past had seen mostly crickets. Go figure.
Sent from my Moto Z2 Force using Tapatalk
Combat challenge is really a lot of fun.
The reason why fighter town arenas aren't working is because you need at least 3-6 people in an arena at all times. No one opens an arena called FFA or Team Deathatch and leaves it open all day. The AVA is limited so that may turn players off. There's just not enough people in the arena to spark it. The Match play is too convoluted, and doesn't play like a team death match arena. When you look at how the old FFA or TDM arenas were set up in the H2H. You see nothing like those set ups today, which is unfortunate...
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Shuffler on May 23, 2019, 04:28:07 PM
Wish I still had access to my Shuff's Paradise. I could update it to AHIII and host it. Was always fun ion there. Even with the limits of H2H numbers.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: AAIK on May 23, 2019, 04:31:22 PM
I find the biggest enemy is the absolute desire to win. As a child I would play with a purpose to not just win, but to learn as well. I didn't mind getting shot down or outflown because I knew I would learn and become better. Its something I've become aware of recently and have changed my thought processes about it and I am starting to enjoy games much more again because I don't expect to win but I know its a learning experience as well. Of course there are some people out there with insane talent which probably makes the whole thing a breeze.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 23, 2019, 04:56:09 PM
I find the biggest enemy is the absolute desire to win. As a child I would play with a purpose to not just win, but to learn as well. I didn't mind getting shot down or outflown because I knew I would learn and become better. Its something I've become aware of recently and have changed my thought processes about it and I am starting to enjoy games much more again because I don't expect to win but I know its a learning experience as well. Of course there are some people out there with insane talent which probably makes the whole thing a breeze.
I understand your sentiment here...BUT. Isnt the "desire to win" what keeps us here and trying to get better? To be the shooter down, not the shot down? Like you, I guess its still fun for me as like you, I expect to loose more often than not. Its more a desire to get better than it is to win, but getting better means you do win more :cheers: I still say its the VENOM from some players that is biggest hurdle to retaining players. Saw it just last night...and NOT ON 200 :mad: New player changed sides and OMG heaven forbid the enemy up bombers for a CV after this...was ugly :furious
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: AAIK on May 23, 2019, 05:57:10 PM
I understand your sentiment here...BUT. Isnt the "desire to win" what keeps us here and trying to get better? To be the shooter down, not the shot down? Like you, I guess its still fun for me as like you, I expect to loose more often than not. Its more a desire to get better than it is to win, but getting better means you do win more :cheers: I still say its the VENOM from some players that is biggest hurdle to retaining players. Saw it just last night...and NOT ON 200 :mad: New player changed sides and OMG heaven forbid the enemy up bombers for a CV after this...was ugly :furious
Well I think we all have a desire to win, its just if its that alone it could be detrimental to your (and possibly others) experience.
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 23, 2019, 08:30:11 PM
The point of the tread , I think , never even got to "winning or losing". Two guys ran away and the third did nothing but pull for a HO, in a single flight. Yup, I "lost" because I failed to dodge the THIRD HO attempt, but again the point is why would anyone both to continue to play if these are the types of (laughingly call) combat a player sees.
It could be one of the reasons you dont see players from other flight sims stick around. They come in expecting "combat" and instead spend their time "chasing" players or "dodgin hos". Why would they stay?
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: guncrasher on May 23, 2019, 09:19:16 PM
one of those who ran actually died, guess he didn't run fast enough. as for the ho, it wasn't a ho.
semp
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Dogtown on May 24, 2019, 05:35:02 AM
Wait ...what ? there are bots in match play ?
Title: Re: Why bother?
Post by: Someguy63 on May 26, 2019, 03:36:46 PM
I’ll actually check some of those recommended out, all I read is books on mathematics...
It's a game. The time to fight is a popular thing to harp on. Personally I don't mind it all that much because the open world gives us options in how we want to approach the fight, but it's one of the reasons the game is less popular than others.
Wiley.
I don't mind the time spent getting to a fight. I'm the guy who routinely drove multiple sectors to sneak up on an enemy tank that I'm anticipating will show up at my country strats or fly off map for an hour hunting red arrows. Sadly, Gv dar put an end to any sort of stealthy stalking and proximity dar put an end to flying noe to a friendly strat or field and surprising the enemy by showing up too close for them to bail without giving up kills. Now the bailers have the game making it all the more easy to engage in bailing to deny a kill.