This might be very good or very bad! Looking forward to it!
Finaly something has moved in the online flight sim world, i've been waiting over a decade for news of this type from one of the parties involved in making sims.
Quote
I wonder if this is just to upgrade the visuals of the game
Some more info from the announcement:
- Brand new graphics system using unreal engine 4 - New and improved flight modelling - New technology to map actual physical locations for more realistic simulation using MicroProse LTY technology. - More play modes from Free to Play to Subscription ( free to play is basic plane set, IE: spit 1, 109 e-4 etc, subscription can be purchased for 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, few months) - Only combat simulation that is world wide in play area rather than small tactical conflicts using MicroProse 3D planetary engine for seamless planet rendering from space down to the surface. - Regular historical events every few weeks with a broader array of the weapons and vehicles of World War II. - To launch for PC/Mac computers fall 2019.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 15, 2019, 12:19:33 PM
Finaly something has moved in the online flight sim world, i've been waiting over a decade for news of this type from one of the parties involved in making sims.
News of what type? A graphics upgrade?
Static screenshots (and the last of your images is a painting not a screenshot isn't it?) and marketing blurbs are easy.
A fully functional game in another. I'll reserve judgement until I have actually downloaded it and have played it. I wouldn't start sprouting wood just yet.
- More play modes from Free to Play to Subscription ( free to play is basic plane set, IE: spit 1, 109 e-4 etc, subscription can be purchased for 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, few months)
I think that is smart, but they may have waited too long.
- Only combat simulation that is world wide in play area rather than small tactical conflicts using MicroProse 3D planetary engine for seamless planet rendering from space down to the surface.
There are currently 5 players in WB arena at this moment. How much of the planet do they need?
In either case, it depicts a 109E from 1940 against B-17G's and P-51D's from 1944 so I'm not impressed.
....and of course that never happens in AH :rolleyes:
The point is there MAY be something coming down the road that will......
1. spark interest, even if it sucks they will hopefully have some sort of media blitz which may get players looking at other options if they are not happy with what Wild bill comes up with.
2. generate some competition between flight sims games and get some better/improved product out of all of them.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on June 15, 2019, 12:55:32 PM
Quote
News of what type? A graphics upgrade?
That -something- is happening in the sim world.
Quote
In either case, it depicts a 109E from 1940 against B-17G's and P-51D's from 1944 so I'm not impressed.
I guess that would be the free to player in his free 109E vs a subscription player.
Quote
The point is there MAY be something coming down the road that will......
1. spark interest, even if it sucks they will hopefully have some sort of media blitz which may get players looking at other options if they are not happy with what Wild bill comes up with.
2. generate some competition between flight sims games and get some better/improved product out of all of them.
Aye :aok I think that's the best outcome
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: bustr on June 15, 2019, 01:46:30 PM
If the screen shots are out of the beta, why did you need to photoshop effect them before posting them here? Do you have any unedited screenshots?
Launching for PC/Mac computers fall 2019. Mobile and game system versions to launch in 2020. Brand new graphics system using the Unreal 4 engine. High Detail Cockpits and Aircraft. New technology to map actual physical locations for more realistic simulation. Regular Historical Events are held monthly over large geographical areas like Europe, Japan, and not the small area skirmishes of many other sim games.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on June 15, 2019, 01:50:36 PM
If the screen shots are out of the beta, why did you need to photoshop effect them before posting them here? Do you have any unedited screenshots?
The screenshots are from the MicroProse website.
The concept art is from David Lagettie (new CEO of MicroProse) twitter.
It is worthy to notice that David Lagettie also owns titanim.net. Titanim is a project that renders whole world from space to ground and was used by the military.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Gman on June 15, 2019, 02:23:33 PM
I grew up on Mircoprose, from their first F15 on the C64 onwards, I bought every single game they made. Wild Bill is still a ####head though.
We'll see - I won't hold my breath on this, competition is good I suppose, but there are a pile of options out there that this will have to be as good or better than (AH3, IL2, DCS WW2, etc etc) in order to move my needle much. Just my subjective opinion. Hearing the words "mobile version" attached to this isn't very inspiring though.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 15, 2019, 02:24:39 PM
This vid doesn't looks nearly as impressive as the static screenshots. They never do.
It does look like they may have at least caught up to AH in graphics. Competition is always good.
(Be sure to mute the french guy immediately!)
I just don't think there is enough flight-sim MMO to go around. I wish HTC and Rats would join resources and create the ultimate full spectrum WWII online game.
But uhhh let HTC do the airplane part. :t
:salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on June 15, 2019, 02:36:34 PM
Found some terrain screenshots they've been posting
Again, you understand why showing static, pre-rendered marketing terrain is meaningless, right?
Show me live, in-game video with 50 players fighting over that terrain in real-time and running on consumer grade gaming machine and I'll start to be impressed.
Until then, you're wasting my time.
[edit] And if they had that, I think they would be showing it off by now if they are planning to release by Fall.
:salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on June 15, 2019, 03:26:03 PM
Again, you understand why showing static, pre-rendered marketing terrain is meaningless, right?
Show me live, in-game video with 50 players fighting over that terrain in real-time and running on consumer grade gaming machine and I'll start to be impressed.
Until then, you're wasting my time.
lol, I only posted what they are showing, it's not my game :noid
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 15, 2019, 03:35:55 PM
I recognize that. I believe that image is being statically pre-rendered in Blender 3D. I don't know if they outright represented to you that was a live in-game screenshot, but I don't believe that it is.
That could be grossly misleading to people. Maybe Voss is doing their marketing. :cool:
:salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: bustr on June 15, 2019, 04:02:26 PM
Nugetx is that you again?
The polys in the first two screen shots will limit game play to about a 10milex10mile arena with 16-32 people on PC's. Unless those are for Mobile and consol. The last one is large poly that can support 100+ PC players and looks hokey like candy cream frosted mountains to accomplish it. Might account for the photoshopped screenshots you first presented. It also looks like an AI algorithm in each case like L3DT gives as a random mountain generation tool.
This is by human hand and will support 1000 PC players.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tTWD5kPM/tileset199.jpg)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: icepac on June 15, 2019, 04:44:40 PM
They need to lure Geoff Crammond out of retirement. His physics modeling was tip top.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on June 15, 2019, 06:32:54 PM
The new warbirds 2020 terrain really is a callback to the really old terrains of Warbirds 1-2. It stands out and has a very bold palette.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on June 15, 2019, 06:42:47 PM
Are you 100% guaranteeing that is an actual live in-game screenshot?
Or is that more rendered "concept art"?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on June 18, 2019, 10:39:07 AM
From what I have seen of the UE4 is that it is capable of very good effects the screenshots are not out of its realm to pull off which is why it is used so prolifically. Though since the game is barely built I think these are just static pieces to attract interest.
UE4 is completely easy to access and free as well (Epic take a percentage of profits, only if you make profits).
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 18, 2019, 10:52:46 AM
Though since the game is barely built I think these are just static pieces to attract interest.
Exactly.
Static concept art is one thing. Actual live 80 plane MP game-play video is another. If they are releasing in the Fall, surely they are in Beta at this point. There should be plenty of "actual gameplay" videos posted.
I've seen too much vaporware over the years to put stock in concept art. I'll believe it when I've downloaded it and am playing it on my machine.
So, we'll see what we see.
:salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Bruv119 on June 18, 2019, 10:56:18 AM
surely if you wanted high fidelity flight models and jaw dropping graphics you would just go and play DCS?
Jets, WW2 birds, they have something for everyone except maybe WW1 fanatics.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 18, 2019, 11:01:15 AM
Static concept art is one thing. Actual live 80 plane MP game-play video is another. If they are releasing in the Fall, surely they are in Beta at this point. There should be plenty of "actual gameplay" videos posted.
I've seen too much vaporware over the years to put stock in concept art. I'll believe it when I've downloaded it and am playing it on my machine.
So, we'll see what we see.
:salute
I don't think you caught the point. Its most likely in-game photage, not some pre-rendered scene.
It probably shows off the capability of the UE4 engine so the end result wont be much different from the actual screenshots.
What worries me is that they are looking for investors, which means they don't have confidence in their vision or current resources. Crowd funding is a really strange creature.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 18, 2019, 11:48:22 AM
I don't think you caught the point. Its most likely in-game photage, not some pre-rendered scene.
It probably shows off the capability of the UE4 engine so the end result wont be much different from the actual screenshots.
What worries me is that they are looking for investors, which means they don't have confidence in their vision or current resources. Crowd funding is a really strange creature.
I did, but I don't think you caught mine.
I doubt that is what the live game terrain will look like. If they are releasing in Fall, they should be in Beta. They should be able to post live multi-player actual game-play videos of planes flying through that terrain. Real time game play, not some pre-rendered cinematic scene. If they had video like that, on that terrain looking like that, I'd think they'd be posting it.
Because surely they wouldn't expect anyone to believe empty, static, concept art pictures.
:salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on June 18, 2019, 12:07:33 PM
I doubt that is what the live game terrain will look like. If they are releasing in Fall, they should be in Beta. They should be able to post live multi-player actual game-play videos of planes flying through that terrain. Real time game play, not some pre-rendered cinematic scene. If they had video like that, on that terrain looking like that, I'd think they'd be posting it.
Because surely they wouldn't expect anyone to believe empty, static, concept art pictures.
:salute
That is what I was pointing out, the terrain *will* be the same as shown in the static picture.
My guess to the delay of beta videos/etc is the lack of pilots/players since WB is really bad with player number.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Bruv119 on June 18, 2019, 12:25:09 PM
My guess to the delay of beta videos/etc is the lack of pilots/players since WB is really bad with player number.
That's pretty "optimistic", IMO. It would only take 1 or 2 people to post an in game video. Based on history, I don't trust WB as far as I could throw him left handed.
Man, Microprose was so good in the backwhen though. I put a metric buttload of time into F-19.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 18, 2019, 01:17:00 PM
The secret to a great game is to simulate the fun stuff and throw everything else out. Sid Meier said that.
:salute
The tricksy part is figuring out what's fun. While some people rub their nipples over the engine management stuff and lack of icons in IL2, those are both major downsides to me. Everybody's sweet spot for realism is a little bit different.
I've tried DCS world a bit, it seemed pretty impressive to me, but it's not something I'd play every day. Money vs desire just isn't quite there. If they ever really knock their stuff down on a Steam sale I may grab a couple planes. I would really like to brrrrrrrt something and I'd love to fly a Tomcat or F18.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 18, 2019, 02:04:34 PM
That's where the artistry and good instincts come in. The art is finding the perfect mix. The fine line between interesting detail, and tedious minutia. More tedious details might make a better simulation, but not necessarily a better game.
That's what separates the game the great designers like Sid Meier from all the ones who's name you can't remember.
I'm fine if you can just turn that stuff off, but development resources are a zero-sum game. I wonder how much more "fun" stuff could have been squeezed in if less time is spent on switches and knobs.
To each their own. The market will eventually decide the proper balance.
:cheers:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Wiley on June 18, 2019, 02:23:05 PM
That's where the artistry and good instincts come in. The art is finding the perfect mix. The fine line between interesting detail, and tedious minutia. More tedious details might make a better simulation, but not necessarily a better game.
That's what separates the game the great designers like Sid Meier from all the ones who's name you can't remember.
I'm fine if you can just turn that stuff off, but development resources are a zero-sum game. I wonder how much more "fun" stuff could have been squeezed in if less time is spent on switches and knobs.
To each their own. The market will eventually decide the proper balance.
:cheers:
The switches and knobs are the entire reason DCS is there though. It's catering to the people that like that.
WT caters mostly to one group, AH another, IL2 to yet another (IMO IL2's and AH's fan bases are the closest together of them all in what they want) and DCS to a fourth group. IMO there's relatively little crossover between them although there's likely some.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 18, 2019, 02:46:44 PM
The switches and knobs are the entire reason DCS is there though. It's catering to the people that like that.
WT caters mostly to one group, AH another, IL2 to yet another (IMO IL2's and AH's fan bases are the closest together of them all in what they want) and DCS to a fourth group. IMO there's relatively little crossover between them although there's likely some.
Wiley.
As I said, To each their own. The market will eventually decide the proper balance.
A share goes to WT and share goes to DCS, a share goes to Il2, a share even goes to AH. The size of each share is proportional to the broadness of each's appeal based on their mix of complexity, fun, cost, graphics, and if it is online only or has some offline component/campaign , etc. (Would Il2 have got traction with no offline game? With only online lobbies?)
I kinda wish HTC would bundle their tech into some value-prices single player games to put on steam. There is a huge single player market. Could be a revenue stream and exposure to a whole population they haven't had contact with. Maybe each game can come with a free month on their Aces High game.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Bruv119 on June 18, 2019, 03:05:53 PM
didn't sid meier do settlers?
I remember that being the first computer game I played and loved. Pillaging resources and attacking with vast armies kind of set me up. :D
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 18, 2019, 03:18:48 PM
I don't think you caught the point. Its most likely in-game photage, not some pre-rendered scene.
It probably shows off the capability of the UE4 engine so the end result wont be much different from the actual screenshots.
What worries me is that they are looking for investors, which means they don't have confidence in their vision or current resources. Crowd funding is a really strange creature.
Those "investment" videos were from April last year. They could be well on their way by now.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Wiley on June 18, 2019, 04:37:13 PM
I kinda wish HTC would bundle their tech into some value-prices single player games to put on steam. There is a huge single player market. Could be a revenue stream and exposure to a whole population they haven't had contact with. Maybe each game can come with a free month on their Aces High game.
I REALLY wish someone would do something similar to Red Baron or Aces Over Europe's career mode with a modern game. Starting out low rank and working your way up with more responsibility/flexibility as you go... I put so much time into those two games in the backwhen.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: perdue3 on June 18, 2019, 04:41:05 PM
I REALLY wish someone would do something similar to Red Baron or Aces Over Europe's career mode with a modern game. Starting out low rank and working your way up with more responsibility/flexibility as you go...
Absolutely!
When I was first starting WW1WF, I was planning on making it a downloadable set of offline missions that you would play in a sequence and I would kinda simulate this and give you promotions and medals at each mission briefing as you went. Some missions in the sequence would be you getting challenged to a duel by one of the aces! Just because I had so much fun playing the original RB! :rock
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 18, 2019, 04:51:23 PM
When I was first starting WW1WF, I was planning on making it a downloadable set of offline missions that you would play in a sequence and I would kinda simulate this and give you promotions and medals at each mission briefing as you went. Some missions in the sequence would be you getting challenged to a duel by one of the aces! Just because I had so much fun playing the original RB! :rock
The part I really liked was the joining a squad and moving with them as the war progressed with the roster changing as people came in/left/were killed. New aircraft coming in on both sides as you went, eventually being able to choose your plane/skin. So much replayability...
Sadly I doubt it'd be profitable. I don't think there are that many people who'd go for it these days.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: pembquist on June 18, 2019, 05:17:53 PM
Yeah, I could see how that could happen. I remember the first time I played it or maybe it was one of the other iterations. The first 1/2 hour I was like "well this is cute but who would waste their lives playing this"......the next morning.........I had my answer.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 18, 2019, 05:32:20 PM
Yeah, I could see how that could happen. I remember the first time I played it or maybe it was one of the other iterations. The first 1/2 hour I was like "well this is cute but who would waste their lives playing this"......the next morning.........I had my answer.
:rofl
I wasn't that bad, but I had some friends who were.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Devil 505 on June 18, 2019, 07:39:55 PM
Yeah, I could see how that could happen. I remember the first time I played it or maybe it was one of the other iterations. The first 1/2 hour I was like "well this is cute but who would waste their lives playing this"......the next morning.........I had my answer.
Just one more turn....
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 18, 2019, 07:45:47 PM
Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes...an EA nightmare of a game
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 19, 2019, 02:21:46 PM
Hmmm. The airfield is not overly impressive.
Terrain looks like AH I. Not many trees. And they are laying the first ground object down mid-May and they are planning to release a finished product in October?
Really? Seriously? OK. Looking forward to downloading it to try.....in 4 months.
CptTrips, Will Bill wrote that those are early efforts, so the final ones should look even better :cheers:.
Clearly airfield is not finished either, even the hangars have no textures.
He stated in that post:
Quote
On time for October release.
First Ground Objects being placed.
That was 37 days ago. Not two years ago. That is a screenshot of the first placed ground object they placed on 12 May 2019 or there about. I'm just quoting the man.
How do you know I'm not Wild Bill? Have you ever seen us both in the room together at the same time? :cool:
I'm not busting your balz (much). I'm busting Mild Dill. He is the kind of salesman I've had to deal with at too many companies who's mind is pristinely untroubled with ethical considerations about how features or timelines are promised.
That pony has some serious rivets!
It looks almost steam-punk. It looks like a golf ball. ;)
An amazing likeness though ( except the real-life modellers made it way too smooth and aerodynamic-y ):
A totally real-time in game screenshot. No, really. (https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/02/11/06/15/240_F_211061545_Fpb6BJBFNbj8zT2V6XAYgmQFTV23jB4p.jpg)
I met a dude on the internet named Voss who is going to coad it for me. He said all I need to do is put together a video and convince some investors to give him some money.
:salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on June 19, 2019, 04:55:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/t9rotst.png)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 19, 2019, 04:59:53 PM
You broke the hub off your axle on that front wheel :D
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on June 19, 2019, 05:29:30 PM
If you look at the graphics closer: https://corporate-ient.com/warbirds-2020/
You will realize that they only look good from a distance, the textures used arn't that high of resolution and there seems to be no ground clutter atm.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on June 19, 2019, 05:35:52 PM
I like this look, it's starting to grow on me, now we need to wait for some video how it all fits together.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: pembquist on June 19, 2019, 05:56:40 PM
Archie are you playing AH3 now?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on June 19, 2019, 08:19:10 PM
Archie is a bubble off center.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: The Fugitive on June 19, 2019, 09:12:07 PM
Personally if they can hold 300 players a night and has a decent flight model I'd be happy to play it. How the planes look has never been a big deal to me. Im looking for fights. If they have that, Im all in.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 20, 2019, 12:44:46 AM
If you look at the graphics closer: https://corporate-ient.com/warbirds-2020/
You will realize that they only look good from a distance, the textures used arn't that high of resolution and there seems to be no ground clutter atm.
Well I will admit I was wrong about the X-Y-Z coordinate widget. It looks just like Blender, but now I believe that is in the screen of the Unreal development environment. (even though I still don't think that was live game screen just a still from the dev view.) You can see glimpses of it in this tutorial in the lower left corner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91JXN_yPSFY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91JXN_yPSFY)
The Unreal engine does appear fairly capable. Here are a couple of examples:
What is unclear is how big an area this can handle. If the Microprose tech can tile in infinite terrain in real time with 100-200 real-time multiplayer aircraft, all at 45-50fps on the average game computer, then they have something interesting.
Based on the updates Bill has shown so far, I find it hard to believe they will be there by Oct, but go ahead and astound me.
I'll still wait until I actually have it on my machine and am playing it before I am impressed. There is many a slip between cup an lip.
Oh, and it has to have full VR support. No VR, no deal. Unreal supports it, they just have to not flub it.
And there is still the steam-punk P-51 thing. :cool:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on June 20, 2019, 12:48:50 AM
Yea I wonder what MicroProse is doing..... David Lagettie so far has provided only concept art and possibly the website, but what more? Are they going to tie in his world tech? It's to be seen......
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on June 20, 2019, 01:50:49 AM
I knew the model reminds of something, see those rivets on 109? :cool:
(https://i.imgur.com/WN3KSgW.jpg)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on June 20, 2019, 01:27:58 PM
oh.!! Texture wip ..... the shadow :x
(https://i.imgur.com/FYQXxgy.jpg)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 20, 2019, 01:54:54 PM
Awesome. In a couple of more years, after they get those rivets filed down, they might have caught up to where Aces High was a couple of years ago. :rolleyes:
Archie, there is a line between a fellow sim'er coming to the o'club to give a heads-up about an interesting development in the industry that others might be interested in, and coming in with a shade account to shill and evangelize for a competitor.
Your posts are drifting towards really bad taste.
Tell you what. Why don't you wait until you can post a live in-game video of actual 20-30 multi-player combat in the new engine. That would be worth evaluating.
:cheers:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on June 20, 2019, 02:01:46 PM
When was the last time we had some exciting mmo flight sim news? :cool:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on June 20, 2019, 02:02:50 PM
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on June 22, 2019, 03:10:53 AM
I'm not a rivet counter, if the game is fun, with good flight and damage modelling with 100+ players at same time, i'm all in.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: ccvi on June 22, 2019, 07:23:24 AM
At least with the Unreal engine, its probably ensured that there isn't any clipping/zbuffer/hidden-face-removal issues like with AH3, where roads, the own tanks gun, and other GVs are drawn on top the trees that should be hiding them.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on June 22, 2019, 08:30:50 AM
At least with the Unreal engine, its probably ensured that there isn't any clipping/zbuffer/hidden-face-removal issues like with AH3, where roads, the own tanks gun, and other GVs are drawn on top the trees that should be hiding them.
Do you just make up stuff to post here? :headscratch:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: FLOOB on June 22, 2019, 01:08:52 PM
Any advance in the AW line is good news for us. Fanboi attitude is poison.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 22, 2019, 11:12:02 PM
Any advance in the AW line is good news for us. Fanboi attitude is poison.
When I see an advance, I'll cheer it on.
1. I think the use of the Unreal engine is intriguing, but I've only seen implementations that had areas that looked about 10-20 miles square. So, who knows if they can make anything usable out of that. We've seen no evidence yet. Just some static screenshots probably from the Unreal editor program.
2. I think their multi-level payment model with a few f2p planes is smart. The "simple, short trial and then pay our subscription of F'off" model is as dead today as $2/hr was when HTC came in with flat rate.
Nothing else I've seen so far comes close to a definition of advancement. I await further data.
:salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on June 23, 2019, 04:34:24 AM
Quote
Nothing else I've seen so far comes close to a definition of advancement. I await further data.
:salute
I have a hunch Wild Bill is holding an ace up his sleeve this time, they wouldn't be bringing up MicroProse name up for nothing, few days before release, they will have a gameplay trailer that might have the potential to blow us away :cheers:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on June 23, 2019, 07:58:21 AM
:noid
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: The Fugitive on June 23, 2019, 09:05:53 AM
1. I think the use of the Unreal engine is intriguing, but I've only seen implementations that had areas that looked about 10-20 miles square. So, who knows if they can make anything usable out of that. We've seen no evidence yet. Just some static screenshots probably from the Unreal editor program.
2. I think their multi-level payment model with a few f2p planes is smart. The "simple, short trial and then pay our subscription of F'off" model is as dead today as $2/hr was when HTC came in with flat rate.
Nothing else I've seen so far comes close to a definition of advancement. I await further data.
:salute
Agreed, an announcement in the WWII combat sim field is great, but I'll wait to see what released before I get too excited. But there is always hope :)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on June 23, 2019, 10:03:48 AM
I have a hunch Wild Bill is holding an ace up his sleeve this time, they wouldn't be bringing up MicroProse name up for nothing, few days before release, they will have a gameplay trailer that might have the potential to blow us away :cheers:
(https://www.pop-culture.biz/images16/0050XF.jpg)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 24, 2019, 12:22:57 AM
At least with the Unreal engine, its probably ensured that there isn't any clipping/zbuffer/hidden-face-removal issues like with AH3, where roads, the own tanks gun, and other GVs are drawn on top the trees that should be hiding them.
Instead you get texture pop-in, etc.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 24, 2019, 12:24:43 AM
It was Wild Bill that caused the original Microprose to go under. I have a feeling history will repeat itself.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: save on June 24, 2019, 03:41:37 AM
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I'm suspicious for any flightsim that can be played on a mobile phone.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: 1stpar3 on June 24, 2019, 03:15:50 PM
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I'm suspicious for any flightsim that can be played on a mobile phone.
Well they are a bit more than just a phone :aok But yes...I agree.... :devil When the heck are you gonna get back in game? Orelle is getting tired of me bugging him, about you :neener:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Bruv119 on June 24, 2019, 04:34:57 PM
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I'm suspicious for any flightsim that can be played on a mobile phone.
I'm interested to see that.
Of course, AHIII allows mouse. There would be much difference between moving a mouse cursor around and using the device tilt sensors. Tap the screen to fire.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on July 11, 2019, 12:25:37 PM
Found some interesting news on their forum, Wild Bill has opened up the code to volunteers who are helping in making flight models and skins :salute
An interesting talk and a summary of latest update from june :
''Will all the reworked FM's work as they do now in the new WB 2020 format? Asking just to confirm that this wont all have to be changed again once the new game is implemented. '
' the flightmodels should work as they do now in Warbirds 2020'
'They are working hard to make sure existing physics will work the same with the new updated code, testing the physics engine as we speak.......thats the goal anyway'
'---== UPDATE FL2071: NAVAL STRIKE FORCES ==--- By: Robert, Grumpy, Bollok and Iart7 All made possible by: Bcamel (creator of the program used to model the airplanes), and Idunno (who has shared a vast amount of aerodynamical knowledge).
--= TBD-1 Devastator =-- This update brings a rehaul to the "Devastator" naval torpedo bomber. It has been fully remodeled and should now quite closely match real ww2 performance. Pilots will note a significant change in performance since the TBD-1 now has it's historical Pratt and Whitney R-1830-64 Twin Wasp engine rated at 900 hp, not a 2150 hp engine as it was previously modeled with. See further down for details.
--= D3A2 Val =-- This update brings a rehaul to the "Val" naval dive bomber. It has been fully remodeled and should now quite closely match real ww2 performance. Note that it has now been modeled as the improved D3A2 instead of the D3A1. See further down for details.
--= B5N2 Kate =-- This update brings a rehaul to the "Kate" naval torpedo bomber. It has been fully remodeled and should now quite closely match real ww2 performance. See further down for details.
--= New skins =-- Beautiful new skins available, made by IArt7. * MiG-3: Desert and Winter camo * Fokker D.XXI: repainted default skin and a new Luftwaffe camo. * P-36C: improved default skin and a new pursuit squad silver skin. * Hawk75: Improvements to existing skins as well as a new Mohawk IV Bengal 1943 camo. * F-86: Improvements to existing skins plus new Canadian and German skins.
--= Rear gun accuracy fix =-- Slight fix to the dispersion for all single engine dive bombers defensive machine guns, as well as the Bf 110's. The accuracy of the defensive guns will now have a more comparative dispersion relative to each other, based on type of gun and mount.
--= Engine torque fix =-- The Bf 110's and P-38's will now have torque applied correctly from respective engine regarding yaw. If only the right engine is running the airplane will now yaw to the left and vice versa.
--= P-51D no Rockets =-- The rockets have been removed from the P-51D. This since rockets were never used for the Mustang in the European theather, and in the Pacific theatre they were only used on rare occasions from Spring 1945.
---== THE DOUGLAS TBD-1 "DEVASTATOR" FULL REHAUL ==--- The TBD-1 Devastator was a major step in performance compared to the earlier biplane bombers of the US Navy and was in service by 1937. Although quite underpowered for it's loaded weight, this torpedo bomber made a good record of itself early in the Pacific war and was used in many different roles up until Midway 1942. In this battle the TBD-1's suffered heavy casualties without sinking a single carrier. This was in part due to the Devastator's slow speed and poor armor, but the largest factor was the absence of fighter cover and the significant faults with the Mark 13 torpedos, which often failed to explode or ran to deep. The TBD-1's were removed from active service after Midway, replaced by SBD's and TBF's, and thereafter instead used as trainers.
While an improvement from the earlier biplanes, the TBD-1 is inferior performance wise to the Japanese carrier bombers. The engine is relatively weak, it's radial R-1830-64 Twin Wasp engine capable of only 900 hp at sea level, and the Devastator's climb rate and maneuverability is poor. To put it simple the TBD-1 is quite a dog, and the SBD and TBF were better replacements. That being said, the TBD-1 can carry 3x 500 lb bombs, making it effective against enemy ground targets. The bombardier view also allows it to level bomb. (Please note that the previous TBD-1 Devastator flightmodel in Warbirds had somehow been given a ~2150 hp engine and has been significantly overperforming compared to it's historical data up until this update).
---== THE AICHI D3A2 "VAL" FULL REHAUL ==--- The Aichi D3A1 made entry in 1940 and featured a 1070 hp Kinsei 44 engine. In Autumn 1942 it was replaced by the D3A2, which fielded the stronger Kinsei 54 engine able to produce 1300 hp. The "Val" was a potent dive bomber with a speed and climb performance outmatching that of any American naval bomber. It was quite maneuverable and sometimes used in a backup fighter role, although underarmed for this duty. The D3A2 had a fairly sturdy construction and sunk many ships during ww2, most often used in a combination with the B5N2 Torpedo bomber. The weakness of the D3A2 is that it's payload is quite small, able to carry only a 250 kg bomb and 2x 60 kg bombs. It is a good choice though for the pilot who wants a naval bomber able to more quickly get to the target at altitude, and with it's large wings the D3A2 can even turn with a Zero, although it's not as maneuverable or fast as the A6M fighter. This does however allow the "Val" pilot a chance of defending himself against enemy fighters. Also of note is that the D3A2 has a high service ceiling of 35700 ft.
---== THE NAKAJIMA B5N2 "KATE" FULL REHAUL ==--- This Nakajima torpedo bomber was quite a modern asset when it entered service in 1937, and it's performance easily outshone that of the TBD-1 Devastator. The B5N2 "Kate" was powered by the Sakae 11 engine, producing 1000 hp at sea level, and was also 800 lb lighter than the TBD-1. Used in combination with the D3A "Val", the "Kate" sunk many ships during the war and was used to bomb Allied ground targets as well. With adequate fighter cover the Japanese B5N2 and D3A2 were potent naval bombers, but started to suffer heavier casualties as Allied air dominance grew stronger with each year of the war. While not having as good speed and climb performance as the D3A2, The B5N2 can carry a higher payload, use torpedos and has a bombardier view, allowing it to level bomb. The "Kate" has no forward firing guns and while it's single defensive 7.7 mm rear gunner could bring an enemy fighter down with enough hits, don't count on this as a reliable defensive tactic. The "Kate" also has poor armor. Fortunately the B5N2 is fairly light with a large wing area and can turn just as well as the D3A2, allowing it to use it's tight turning radius to survive until help arrives. All in all the B5N2 is as good a choice for carrier operations as it's American counterparts.'
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: FLS on July 11, 2019, 12:41:38 PM
This just keeps getting funnier.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on July 11, 2019, 01:21:33 PM
So that's how they will do it..... they got a band of volunteers who are helping to make the game :)
Interesting move by Bill, interesting
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: FLS on July 11, 2019, 01:39:18 PM
Nice to see an active community. Glad they still have somewhere to go if that doesn't work out. :aok
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on July 11, 2019, 02:08:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3JfdgQU.png)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on July 11, 2019, 04:01:51 PM
So that's how they will do it..... they got a band of volunteers who are helping to make the game :)
Interesting move by Bill, interesting
It's not that interesting at all. It's a common move by low budget studios that can't afford to hire or contract programmers. The low budget studio then makes up some marketing vlast about how they're going to open source the code so the community can get actively involved in developing the game. I've seen it many times in my years in the gaming industry.
There is also the issue of quality control.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on July 13, 2019, 12:19:54 AM
It's not that interesting at all. It's a common move by low budget studios that can't afford to hire or contract programmers. The low budget studio then makes up some marketing vlast about how they're going to open source the code so the community can get actively involved in developing the game. I've seen it many times in my years in the gaming industry.
There is also the issue of quality control.
Can't agree here with you Ack-Ack, have you heard of Bethesda company studios? They produce games like Elder Scrolls Skyrim, Oblivion etc, their games are bugged and broken at release.
The community at https://www.nexusmods.com/ fixed every single of their game, fixed hundreds of thousands of bugs, and created expansions, graphics, code and things which were not possible in base game and not done by the developers, and they do it ALL for free, they are continously fixing and adding new content, to games that are over 10-15 years old.
A dedicated community of volunteer programmers that knows what is doing is as efficient or even more than the developers themselves, because they are driven by fanboyism to the product.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on July 13, 2019, 12:57:28 AM
Can't agree here with you Ack-Ack, have you heard of Bethesda company studios? They produce games like Elder Scrolls Skyrim, Oblivion etc, their games are bugged and broken at release.
The community at https://www.nexusmods.com/ fixed every single of their game, fixed hundreds of thousands of bugs, and created expansions, graphics, code and things which were not possible in base game and not done by the developers, and they do it ALL for free, they are continously fixing and adding new content, to games that are over 10-15 years old.
A dedicated community of volunteer programmers that knows what is doing is as efficient or even more than the developers themselves, because they are driven by fanboyism to the product.
Does it/they have a forum you can transplant your fanboyism to? You could join a club of like minded Warbirdgasm posting geeks (the majority of whom might be tempted just to switch to AH if you start promoting it there instead of trying to promote vaporware here). :aok
The only 2 communities I've ever appreciated when it comes to player patches is RB III and SH IV. The latter of the two did so without the source code available (that could have been the case with Red Baron, as well). Both began when the game producers stopped supporting those specific games with no intention of resuming.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on July 13, 2019, 01:09:08 AM
The October release date is approaching like a freight train.
Is there going to be a beta before the release?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on July 13, 2019, 01:19:43 AM
Does it/they have a forum you can transplant your fanboyism to? You could join a club of like minded Warbirdgasm posting geeks (the majority of whom might be tempted just to switch to AH if you start promoting it there instead of trying to promote vaporware here). :aok
The only 2 communities I've ever appreciated when it comes to player patches is RB III and SH IV. The latter of the two did so without the source code available (that could have been the case with Red Baron, as well). Both began when the game producers stopped supporting those specific games with no intention of resuming.
Arlo i'm just a fan of WW2 games in general and not particularly Warbirds, it's just that Wild Bill seems to be the first out of involved parties in making the online ww2 games to be bringing his game into XXIst century.
Quote
The October release date is approaching like a freight train.
Is there going to be a beta before the release?
Idk, they are keeping their development old school, shut down behind their doors and are only posting screenshots from time to time.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on July 13, 2019, 01:25:27 AM
Arlo i'm just a fan of WW2 games in general and not particularly Warbirds, it's just that Wild Bill seems to be the first out of involved parties in making the online ww2 games to be bringing his game into XXIst century.
And you mentioned it already. Then you broke out the pom-poms as if you're gonna be paid for the post count promoting it here.
Do you know of any other WWII flight combat MMOs that are producing the quality of VR that Dale is? I'm seeing nothing but positive feedback there. That's pretty damned 21st century. ;)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on July 13, 2019, 01:27:21 AM
No I don't, ok AH got VR, but we know that's not what we are talking about here ;)
21st century technology seems pretty well on spot, concerning the subject (other than AH also being available for the players to experience in-game right this minute, unlike 'super-Warbirds'). As excited as you want to be about WB here based on rumor, you'd think you'd be more so, regarding the game this forum is related to. There was actually a forum rule against promoting competing games here, I think .... but I guess there's also one against my mentioning that to you. So, I might recommend you kinda relaxing and waiting to see if your dreams come true (actually functional) first. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on July 13, 2019, 01:47:59 AM
That's what i'm doing, waiting and counting the years.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on July 13, 2019, 01:55:47 AM
Don't get me wrong, i'd love to see Aces High 2020 with latest graphics, flight model, damage model, physics, a subscription model that would allow in more players. Back in the GEnie times of Air Warrior the price at first was 36$ an hour that got cut later on to 18$ an hour to later 2$ an hour? After that we have the monthly subscription.....which today a flat subscription is also a thing of the past. If Aces High had all that coming, i'd be excited it about it also, wouldn't you be? Like I've said i'm not particularly excited just about Warbirds, i'm excited about that -something- has finaly happened in this stale niche market.
If it would be Aces High or WW 2 ol coming with all the latest goodies and flashy stuff, i'd be all over them also !
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on July 13, 2019, 02:40:26 AM
>>>> I'd love to see Aces High 2020 with latest graphics, flight model, damage model, physics, a subscription model that would allow in more players <<<<
The graphics are fine (great detail for not dragging the fps).
What's wrong with the damage model and what game has better?
Same for the physics?
And a 'subscription model that would allow more players?' By that are you talking about FTP that bleeds players dry by charging $15-$100 per plane or vehicle or ship? That's until their parents find out how fast they racked up charges on the card. AH's sub model is reasonable and allows access the full plane/vehicle set (when perks are accrued). Most FTPs offer a monthly account option (probably because that option is still popular).
So if your imaginary WB 'improvement' cheer-leading has to include spurious AH bashing then you're actually revealing yourself to be nothing but a forum plant stirring up trouble. Also, your version of patience and backing off is rather bizarre.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on July 13, 2019, 02:54:33 AM
Hey hey I wish Aces High all the best :aok
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on July 13, 2019, 03:03:30 AM
Arlo i'm just a fan of WW2 games in general and not particularly Warbirds, it's just that Wild Bill seems to be the first out of involved parties in making the online ww2 games to be bringing his game into XXIst century.
Idk, they are keeping their development old school, shut down behind their doors and are only posting screenshots from time to time.
Old school? You just said they are breaking the mold going public with their code.
You should go take your meds as prescribed.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: save on July 16, 2019, 07:23:42 PM
I have CLod Blitz. There is a lot to like, but nowadays, no VR no deal.
They get VR and I'll be giving it some time.
:cheers:
When VR gear go full 4k, and graphic cards deliver at least 75fps at reasonable price, I'm going VR. Until then TrackIR works for me in all simulations I play (planes and tanks), even though it is not the same experience (been involved in military VR stuff with all the $$$ you need, so I know what it can do).
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on July 20, 2019, 01:09:02 AM
Now it gets realy weird.... this David Lagettie is filling for Spectrum Holobyte trademark :O
And a 'subscription model that would allow more players?' By that are you talking about FTP that bleeds players dry by charging $15-$100 per plane or vehicle or ship? That's until their parents find out how fast they racked up charges on the card. AH's sub model is reasonable and allows access the full plane/vehicle set (when perks are accrued). Most FTPs offer a monthly account option (probably because that option is still popular).
But those games have millions of subscribers and thousands online at any given time. If we accept that AH is much better than those games, perhaps the subscription model may be a factor?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: The Fugitive on July 21, 2019, 12:01:59 PM
But those games have millions of subscribers and thousands online at any given time. If we accept that AH is much better than those games, perhaps the subscription model may be a factor?
I agree. New players come in try the game a realize that there is a lot to it, and then add in the monthly subscription and decide it just isnt worth their time to work it all out. Most of todays games have the "one time fee",or "Free to play, grind/pay for extras" type model. That is what most gamers are use to. I think switching to one of these models would help players stick it out longer...... long enough to get hooked. Sticking to an old subscription model just because its what you like isnt going to help if it doesnt work any more. Again, changing with the times is what will keep the game relevant enough to continue to bring in new players.
Many times Ive been told on these boards and in the game to either "adapt" to game changes or leave. Maybe its time management learns to adapt before everyone leaves.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on July 21, 2019, 12:46:00 PM
If AHIII switched to a 'free to play' model with micro-purchases to pay the bills (buy the plane you like to fly for a 'nominal' fee* or purchase perk points to play with the high end toys or pay to field mod, etc) then this game would likely then and there run off its most loyal customer base in exchange for a revolving door that would likely peak then dwindle (if peak, at all). If it was to offer a duel payment option of either/or then the micro-purchase scheme by comparison to the reasonable monthly fee with access to all of the purchasable toys would make little sense unless the monthly fee is increased to be of only slightly discounted cost (see below).
Better to continue to offer a superior product while making whatever improvement in training wheels settings that the more casual/less addicted to realism player requires than just attempting to follow payment plans which, honestly, aren't the pure hallmark for success one may perceive (for there are other games that marketed themselves as FTP and still flopped).
*[WOW considers $10.00 for each junk plane and upwards of $50.00 for an x-plane with better but imaginary flight parameters their rightful micro products]
(My opinion of your opinion.) :cheers:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: The Fugitive on July 21, 2019, 03:59:01 PM
If AHIII switched to a 'free to play' model with micro-purchases to pay the bills (buy the plane you like to fly for a 'nominal' fee* or purchase perk points to play with the high end toys or pay to field mod, etc) then this game would likely then and there run off its most loyal customer base in exchange for a revolving door that would likely peak then dwindle (if peak, at all). If it was to offer a duel payment option of either/or then the micro-purchase scheme by comparison to the reasonable monthly fee with access to all of the purchasable toys would make little sense unless the monthly fee is increased to be of only slightly discounted cost (see below).
Better to continue to offer a superior product while making whatever improvement in training wheels settings that the more casual/less addicted to realism player requires than just attempting to follow payment plans which, honestly, aren't the pure hallmark for success one may perceive (for there are other games that marketed themselves as FTP and still flopped).
*[WOW considers $10.00 for each junk plane and upwards of $50.00 for an x-plane with better but imaginary flight parameters their rightful micro products]
(My opinion of your opinion.) :cheers:
I dont see why a dual payment option wouldnt work. It would keep the long time and new hard core players happy with the monthly subscription, and give the flexibility for new gamers to jump in and out at will.
The only thing that is guaranteed about staying the same is eventually the world passes you by. If the game isnt adjusted to appeal to todays gamers .....both in game play and subscription rates the game will continue to slowly drop away.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: bustr on July 21, 2019, 05:13:25 PM
Dual payment may come down to what it costs Hitech to have a transaction processed. He is already paying Steam 30% I think for a new player subscribing or something like that to be on Steam. If it's pay only when you want to play, what will it cost him to have that transaction processed versus his profit off a nickle and dime payment? Remember transaction companies want their percentage and it's no different than when it cost a company more to process your check than the item was worth for something less than $5.00. I doubt pay to win or pay only for the time you really want to play will bring in more customers and more likely would close Hitech's doors sooner than later with the MA format. But, the know alls seem to think Hitech has to kill the MA and create something like WT gets IL2 pregnant and PUBG becomes it's daddy.
Do any of you actually run online game businesses or, do you project your feelings by going company's B thru Z do x,y,z and have lots of kids playing while Hitech doesn't. So Hitech needs to do x,y,z like I have been telling him to. Or he is a fraud and a looser who is killing his company and I think he sucks becasue I know better than he does becasue I play other games and read about them on the Internet and he won't listen to me. So now I'm going to tell the world he doesn't know how to run his business in his face, in his forums, to shame him into doing what I "know" will save his business from his lame OLD self, becasue I know how to make his company work better than he does. This is pretty much what all of you drive by "Hitech sucks" shamers have been saying since about 2010 like a broken record. You all eased up with the AH3 roll out, then doubled down with more outright and personal denigration to his business character since.
Hitech has to solve his own problems, and you guys all now demand to help him by knee capping him just becasue you are so unhappy with him. Becasue your 20\20 hindsight is better than owning a business and knowing what for you talk about, since he has sinned by personally making you unhappy and is killing "Your Game". Did any of you ever think, it's his property if he wants to kill it? Who cares about your gripes. And with fans like you guys, I wouldn't blame him shutting down the whole enterprise and writing off all of your destructive negativity towards him. Who needs that since all of you have about declared his business dead short of filing an obituary and a death certificate. Now days it's kick Hitech in the teeth and tell the world how business stupid he is with any opening you can get here in the forums 24x7. Yeah, great bunch to create anything for....
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on July 22, 2019, 05:10:36 PM
bustr I know you have a vested interest in HT's current state but maybe less attachment might make for better conversation?
The thing is none of us can get through to HT on any topic it seems. He picks small ideas here and there and goes on his merry way. The community seems to be screaming for some sort of change and nothing appears.
Even advertising on smaller plane focused youtubers is not done, there is zero real exposure at the moment.
I really don't know what to say. None of us can get through to HT and I don't see that changing which is why some of us seem exited about Wild bill's game?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on July 22, 2019, 11:22:44 PM
ROTFLMAO
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on July 23, 2019, 06:19:05 AM
bustr I know you have a vested interest in HT's current state but maybe less attachment might make for better conversation?
The thing is none of us can get through to HT on any topic it seems. He picks small ideas here and there and goes on his merry way. The community seems to be screaming for some sort of change and nothing appears.
Even advertising on smaller plane focused youtubers is not done, there is zero real exposure at the moment.
I really don't know what to say. None of us can get through to HT and I don't see that changing which is why some of us seem exited about Wild bill's game?
All serious inquiries must be mailed to the company attached to a bottle of scotch.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on July 23, 2019, 12:36:19 PM
The thing is none of us can get through to HT on any topic it seems.
My guess is that most of the changes suggested would change this game into something completely different. And Hitech won't discuss it with you because every time he does people screaming at him about how wrong he is.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on July 24, 2019, 12:51:40 AM
My guess is that most of the changes suggested would change this game into something completely different. And Hitech won't discuss it with you because every time he does people screaming at him about how wrong he is.
It's understandable that this is HT game and AH is an extension of Air Warrior, but in todays times people want something more realistic, and by realistic I mean something that resembles world war 2.
Look at most recent flight sims from other companies, they are realistic in their approach in what they do.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on July 24, 2019, 07:21:06 AM
It's understandable that this is HT game and AH is an extension of Air Warrior, but in todays times people want something more realistic, and by realistic I mean something that resembles world war 2.
Look at most recent flight sims from other companies, they are realistic in their approach in what they do.
Just when we think you can't be more clueless..... boom
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Devil 505 on July 24, 2019, 10:24:28 AM
It's understandable that this is HT game and AH is an extension of Air Warrior, but in todays times people want something more realistic, and by realistic I mean something that resembles world war 2.
Look at most recent flight sims from other companies, they are realistic in their approach in what they do.
says the guy pushing a even less realistic game. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Bruv119 on July 27, 2019, 12:20:32 AM
The polys in the first two screen shots will limit game play to about a 10milex10mile arena with 16-32 people on PC's. Unless those are for Mobile and consol. The last one is large poly that can support 100+ PC players and looks hokey like candy cream frosted mountains to accomplish it. Might account for the photoshopped screenshots you first presented. It also looks like an AI algorithm in each case like L3DT gives as a random mountain generation tool.
This is by human hand and will support 1000 PC players.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tTWD5kPM/tileset199.jpg)
and what is the use in being able to support 1000 when we don't see 200 id rather see something that looks more real then something that aint gonna happen like 1000 players
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on August 03, 2019, 01:08:38 AM
Bill posted this without giving more info...... makes you wonder
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA_XNSZW4AUguzf.jpg)
:O
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on August 03, 2019, 01:16:32 AM
With less than 3 months left for the scheduled release, you'd think we'd be seeing some actual Beta game-play videos.
Makes you wonder. :cool:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on August 03, 2019, 01:18:42 AM
Well, he could release some videos of actual Beta game-play.
With less than 3 months to launch, surely they are in Beta, right?
No idea, last time he logged on steam was 30 days ago, when he posted the p51 screenshot and posted information that they are working on it, so hold on your horses some more yet.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on August 03, 2019, 02:01:32 PM
Ok don't believe me....... there should be a trailer soon anyways :airplane:
The gullible I understand. I do not believe a thing bill says.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Mister Fork on August 06, 2019, 12:02:03 PM
This game is NOT going to be ready this fall. We'll be lucky to see it for E3 in 2020. It's my prediction, but after working on around half a dozen game sims development as a alpha/beta tester and game design architect, the biggest unknown in all software products is the time it takes to fix bugs.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on August 06, 2019, 01:26:18 PM
This game is NOT going to be ready this fall. [...]
Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean they won't release it. :t Other companies have been known to release Alpha projects when the money runs out. (*cough*CloD*cough*)
It might explain why less than 3 months from scheduled release they still are embarrassed to show any actual in-game video of Beta.
Assuming they've even gotten to the Beta. Assuming they even have a semi-playable version at all.
Like I said. Posting pe-rendered "concept art" is easy. Show me the nearly finished game, since we are nearly at the release date. 3 months in development time can go by like *snap*.
Mild Dill might surprise me, but I doubt it.
Oh. Skip to 28:04. I didn't know Hitech had done Air Warrior. And he was failing with Warbirds before Bill swooped in and saved him. Lol. It's like listening to Coach from Cheers.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: morfiend on August 06, 2019, 01:41:13 PM
4 lift vectors on 2 wings and 2 on the elevator....wow state of the art FM!
Even MSFS used 3 lift vectors on each wing but that doesnt even come close to what HTC uses.
YMMV!
:salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on August 06, 2019, 02:02:46 PM
It's coming up on 24 hours since 'Archie' has posted a hard-on post for Wild Bill. I'm getting worried.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Wiley on August 06, 2019, 02:21:03 PM
I wouldn't put it past Billy-Boy to hire spammers.
:rolleyes:
Bill's well enough known I'd think it wouldn't have much of a return, here at least. Observe the amount of toejam that has fallen on the guy in this thread. Feels to me more like an enthusiastic amateur or a troll.
Although... "contract social media spammer" is a position that probably doesn't attract the best and brightest now that I think about it.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: puller on August 06, 2019, 03:18:31 PM
And he was failing with Warbirds before Bill swooped in and saved him. Lol. It's like listening to Coach from Cheers.
HT's Warbirds was failing SO BADLY that Bill gave HT $10 million for a failing business? Umm...yeah.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on August 06, 2019, 05:35:17 PM
- HTC missed the prime chance with steam by waiting too long. If it had been deployed on steam back in 07 it would of kept numbers longer and better. - HTC missed the F2P boat as well waiting too long. Gameplay free and paid cosmetics are the formula but the market has moved on since everyone and their dog does F2P now. I expect the next big thing is to pay players to play their games.
HTC only implements things when their position seems to be in danger, not in pre-emption or future proofing. Of course its easy for me to say this since its all retrospective but other companies have implemented these things for years and not to take notice is a lack of SA as far as I can tell.
Its not a bad thing to hope for better/improved games.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on August 06, 2019, 05:37:13 PM
HT's Warbirds was failing SO BADLY that Bill gave HT $10 million for a failing business? Umm...yeah.
You have to take the context to understand why that happened. It was the beginning of the dot com boom and tons of companies with little or no value were sold for tons of money. Warbirds was probably not worth that much but either the company was in the beginning of a nose dive or the new owners drove the company into the ground.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on August 06, 2019, 05:40:51 PM
You have to take the context to understand why that happened. It was the beginning of the dot com boom and tons of companies with little or no value were sold for tons of money. Warbirds was probably not worth that much but either the company was in the beginning of a nose dive or the new owners drove the company into the ground.
The latter.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on August 06, 2019, 05:41:56 PM
I didn't know Hitech had done Air Warrior. And he was failing with Warbirds before Bill swooped in and saved him. Lol. It's like listening to Coach from Cheers.
Wild Bill's comments just shows he doesn't have a clue and why Warbirds is in the state it is in. If you look at Wild Bill's involvement in any studio he's been with, the studios of gone tit's up. Look at Microprose. According to Wild Bill, he was the reason why Microprose was so successful in the '80's and 'early 90's. Yet, the company started to go tit's up after Sid Meier left because of constant bad business decisions by Wild Bill like trying to break into the arcade market.
HiTech was a player in Air Warrior, he wasn't employed or ever worked for Kesmai, the creators and developers of Air Warrior. Interactive Creations (HiTech's company) wasn't failing when purchased by iEntertainment Network and didn't need saving. In reality, it was iEN that needed saving, which is why when Wild Bill was still at iEN, they purchased IC and Warbirds because Wild Bill was trying to sell iEN to a venture capitalist in either '98 or '99. iEN had stretched themselves too thin, at the time iEN had more distribution deals rather then game development and the games they did develop outside of Warbirds, weren't successful. Even after Wild Bill returned to iEN in the early 2000's, iEN continued to be plagued with bad business decisions which carried over to poor development decisions in Warbirds.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on August 06, 2019, 07:46:02 PM
Wild Bill's comments just shows he doesn't have a clue and why Warbirds is in the state it is in. [...]
Agreed. Of course, I knew all that. I was just being a smart asz. But it's good you clarified for anyone else who sees this and didn't know the back-story.
And yes, Wild Bill is a "clueless dolt".
Salesmen have their role, but neither them nor accountants should ever be allowed to run a company.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: 1stpar3 on August 07, 2019, 12:10:50 AM
This game is NOT going to be ready this fall. We'll be lucky to see it for E3 in 2020. It's my prediction, but after working on around half a dozen game sims development as a alpha/beta tester and game design architect, the biggest unknown in all software products is the time it takes to fix bugs.
They are still at October release date :)
(https://i.imgur.com/LX1lHNs.png)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on August 10, 2019, 06:08:30 AM
: easily duped or cheated selling overpriced souvenirs to gullible tourists
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on August 10, 2019, 06:17:56 AM
I doubt that they would be tarnishing the MicroProse name and the new developer (David Lagettie) putting his credentials out there and past history to just make bold statements.....
If the game will not be released by 30th October..... then I will put my eyebrow up, but for now i'm remaining optimistic.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 10, 2019, 08:13:30 PM
...the new developer (David Lagettie) putting his credentials out there and past history to just make bold statements.....
David Lagettie isn't some super star "developer", nor does he have very many games to his credit. Most of his work was as an audio engineer in the Operation Flashpoint games, he only has one game under his belt as a designer. His "claim to fame" was as a singer for some Internet band and a HVAC repair man in Australia in the early 2000s.
But who knows, maybe this will be successful and iEN's stocks will rise to $0.02 cents.
Does Wild Bill still try to pretend he was a fighter pilot in the US Air Force?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on August 11, 2019, 12:06:05 AM
David Lagettie isn't some super star "developer", nor does he have very many games to his credit. Most of his work was as an audio engineer in the Operation Flashpoint games, he only has one game under his belt as a designer. His "claim to fame" was as a singer for some Internet band and a HVAC repair man in Australia in the early 2000s.
Not saying he is a super star....... but he developed also titanim.net for the military forces around the world, so I would say he knows his craft.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 11, 2019, 02:10:09 AM
Not saying he is a super star....... but he developed also titanim.net for the military forces around the world, so I would say he knows his craft.
Whether or not he "knows his craft" doesn't automatically make him a good game designer. While his Moby page lists him as the game designer of Carrier Command: Gaea Mission, he actually wasn't. His true involvement with that game series was that he was the author of the story the game was based on and not as the game designer, lead or otherwise. Yep, Wild Bill picked himself a winner! :rofl
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on August 12, 2019, 01:00:00 AM
Whether or not he "knows his craft" doesn't automatically make him a good game designer. While his Moby page lists him as the game designer of Carrier Command: Gaea Mission, he actually wasn't. His true involvement with that game series was that he was the author of the story the game was based on and not as the game designer, lead or otherwise. Yep, Wild Bill picked himself a winner! :rofl
If the flight model and damage model is good enough for the real life american army, than it should be plenty good for us?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on August 12, 2019, 01:11:34 AM
Create an account on AH BBS shortly before cheer leading for another game? Sure your name isn't Bill? :rofl
:rofl
Indeed. Makes one go hmmm.... :headscratch:
Either way, no fracking way that game with that much fidelity and complexity will be ready in time for this year. And since all they're showing screenshots and not functional videos, they'll need at least 2-3 months alpha testing, and then another month for beta and then fixing along the way that could extend out beta testing for several more months.
I just hope it's a decent product...
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on August 15, 2019, 12:55:15 AM
Either way, no fracking way that game with that much fidelity and complexity will be ready in time for this year. And since all they're showing screenshots and not functional videos, they'll need at least 2-3 months alpha testing, and then another month for beta and then fixing along the way that could extend out beta testing for several more months.
I just hope it's a decent product...
While I agree, we don't know how many people are working on the new game, a game like this is not a very big game, it's not an rpg where you need thousands of characters, story, text lines etc, all you need is a 1 map, few planes and it can start.
Quote
Lol at having any faith in Wild Bill in the year 2019
Wild Bill is not a developer is he? I think David Lagettie is developing this.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on August 16, 2019, 12:49:58 AM
There is an interview with David Lagettie in a magazine called PC Pilot, anyone by chance reading this? :)
(https://i.imgur.com/PeO9MXU.png)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on August 17, 2019, 12:01:42 PM
but they are showing different game ? :eek: How many projects are they working on ? :eek:
Maybe they already gave up on Rivet-Birds?
Those things can't even get airborne because they are weighed down with rivets.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on August 18, 2019, 03:24:57 PM
With a reputation like Microprose you can't expect them to just lay down and make one game. One of the pictures said its a technical demo as well (an engine/etc) for future products.
Its good to see, thanks for the update.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on August 19, 2019, 12:18:01 AM
With a reputation like Microprose you can't expect them to just lay down and make one game. One of the pictures said its a technical demo as well (an engine/etc) for future products.
Its good to see, thanks for the update.
And Wild Bill is over 70!
But it's good I guess, we will have a multiplayer simulator and then some cool single player ones, I hope the campaign is as awesome as the ones from the 80's, those were the most fun single player simulators i have ever played :salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 20, 2019, 10:37:06 PM
But it's good I guess, we will have a multiplayer simulator and then some cool single player ones, I hope the campaign is as awesome as the ones from the 80's, those were the most fun single player simulators i have ever played :salute
It will be interesting to see what IP rights MicroProse has to some of their old library of games. I know they've lost quite a few and others have fallen into IP purgatory.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on August 23, 2019, 01:11:09 AM
They have a facebook group with screenshots but i'm not using facebook so cannot check it out....
https://www.facebook.com/groups/279561355985287/
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 23, 2019, 08:31:44 AM
They have a facebook group with screenshots but i'm not using facebook so cannot check it out....
https://www.facebook.com/groups/279561355985287/
A lot of those games shown in that image are no longer the property of MicroProse, and they only have the IP rights to the original games. That screenshot only shows the games they had published many, many years ago during their heyday and isn't a representation of the games they currently have the IP rights to. For example, MicroProse will not release any games based on any of Tom Clancy's IP as they no longer have the rights to publish any game based on Tom Clancy's IP, same with the MechCommander games and any of Sid Meier's games.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on September 01, 2019, 12:19:55 PM
Interesting, their twitter has gained a lot of traction
https://twitter.com/micro_prose/
There will be an announcement soon...... I wonder if this will be the new game or it will be warbirds 2020, there is only a futuristic image so far...... but it can be only promotion and we will see warbirds 2020, curious to see what will be next, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for october release :airplane:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDNzqg-UEAARMRZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on September 01, 2019, 12:56:37 PM
Oh look. More concept art.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on September 01, 2019, 01:01:05 PM
They are making more than one game, the first one will be Warbirds 2020, I think the 'exciting news' on MicroProse site and twitter will be Warbirds 2020 announcement.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: snugar109 on September 05, 2019, 11:11:32 AM
The only 'exciting news' I've ever had about wb was telling people I left :rofl
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Wiley on September 05, 2019, 11:18:06 AM
Heh! So based on the SimHQ stuff it's a pro, or an amateur with a plan. Hmp.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Mister Fork on September 05, 2019, 12:46:45 PM
So it' based on the dated Unreal Engine - doesn't look like any VR support - and it's basically Warbirds 2018 with updated graphics - which is a poorly designed game to begin with.
No offence Archie - it doesn't make us hardcore sim players go "ouuuuu"... More of the rolling eyes variety response.
But we'll wait for Warbirds 2020... to see if it's any good. With zero interface screens or gameplay videos or betas just weeks away from release...
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on September 05, 2019, 01:16:03 PM
They are making more than one game, the first one will be Warbirds 2020, I think the 'exciting news' on MicroProse site and twitter will be Warbirds 2020 announcement.
Surprising...... you think?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 05, 2019, 02:33:18 PM
So it' based on the dated Unreal Engine - doesn't look like any VR support - and it's basically Warbirds 2018 with updated graphics - which is a poorly designed game to begin with.
No offence Archie - it doesn't make us hardcore sim players go "ouuuuu"... More of the rolling eyes variety response.
But we'll wait for Warbirds 2020... to see if it's any good. With zero interface screens or gameplay videos or betas just weeks away from release...
I am very surprised that they are going with the Unreal4 engine for Warbirds, since they already have access to the Outerra engine and have experience in using it as opposed to starting fresh with the Unreal4 engine.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on September 06, 2019, 12:01:18 AM
HOLY toejam ! They've done it !! now THIS is the update what we've been waiting for !!! :rock :rock
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDvPs9aUwAIyzSE.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDvPs9cUUAACR2o.jpg)
:eek: :eek: :eek:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vulcan on September 06, 2019, 01:10:50 AM
OMG it's the FIRST COCKPIT EVER!
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 06, 2019, 02:32:47 AM
HOLY toejam ! They've done it !! now THIS is the update what we've been waiting for !!! :rock :rock
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDvPs9aUwAIyzSE.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDvPs9cUUAACR2o.jpg)
:eek: :eek: :eek:
But that's just a render when they created the plane models and shapes in a 3D modeling program like Maya.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on September 06, 2019, 02:44:21 AM
It's Unreal Engine 4 in-engine model, this is how the game will look.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on September 06, 2019, 07:05:22 AM
That looks beautiful. I hope all the cockpits are like that.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on September 06, 2019, 07:29:29 AM
On second thought: I hope my machine can run that game :eek:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on September 06, 2019, 10:00:02 AM
That is just a static, pre-rendered image. Just like the static, pre-rendered terrain you showed earlier. That is not actual game-play screenshot. I can open up Blender or Maya and create you all kinds of cool looking stuff and claim it is a game I'm working on near release. I just need you kickstarter dollars to put some polish on.
With release mere weeks away, sure there is an on-going player beta. Get us some video and screenshots of actual in-game action between real players and I'll be interested.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Chris79 on September 06, 2019, 11:25:27 AM
Yikes. Based on THAT screenshot, it would have to improve significantly to rate "Meh".
:rolleyes:
One hopes they used a low resolution screenshot (which would be stupid), but if they didn't and that's what the game looks like with the Unreal 4 engine, they need new coders.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Chris79 on September 06, 2019, 02:34:58 PM
There is a game play video underneath the screen shot, it does not look impressive
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Mister Fork on September 06, 2019, 02:39:52 PM
We will see soon, on twitter they wrote 'more coming soon' :cool:
More static, pre-rendered, concept art?
I can’t wait.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on September 06, 2019, 05:20:29 PM
Every time I see the thread and any post from archie, I can't help hearing.... I got some ocean front property in Arizona.... from my front porch you can see the sea....
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on September 06, 2019, 06:04:38 PM
Every time I see the thread and any post from archie, I can't help hearing.... I got some ocean front property in Arizona.... from my front porch you can see the sea....
It's written that it is 'game asset', so this cockpit will be an in-game cockpit.
Texture Baking: taking statically pre-rendered high quality models and projecting the output to create texture maps to apply to lower resolution in-game objects.
It certainly can make lower polygon objects look nicer and is a smart approach, but it is dishonest and misleading to show the pre-rendered high quality model and suggest THAT is the what you are going to see in-game.
However, I don't think you have any compunction about being dishonest. I'm not really taking it personally, I just think you are a paid social media marketing shill. I could be wrong. You might actually be an interested player. You can prove me wrong by letting us know what your in-game Aces High id is. What is your Warbird in-game id?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on September 07, 2019, 03:44:10 PM
If he is being paid anything at all, he is over paid. He comes across as one with absolutely no knowledge or experience in gaming. He simply looks silly.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on September 08, 2019, 01:26:52 AM
Used to play AH long time ago...so long i forgot my handle :old: , however i never posted on forum and played only occasionally
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: puller on September 08, 2019, 06:55:17 PM
I must say I am shocked you don't actually play AH... :eek:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on September 09, 2019, 10:01:58 PM
Texture Baking: taking statically pre-rendered high quality models and projecting the output to create texture maps to apply to lower resolution in-game objects.
It certainly can make lower polygon objects look nicer and is a smart approach, but it is dishonest and misleading to show the pre-rendered high quality model and suggest THAT is the what you are going to see in-game.
With all due respect, I still think it is in game.
Here is a video of something that 1 amateur made in his spare time in UE 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEI-VAcs-2Q
I totaly believe that what MicroProse is showing will be in-game.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on September 10, 2019, 04:10:44 AM
From my front porch you can see the sea.....
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: FLS on September 10, 2019, 06:45:22 AM
... I totaly believe that what MicroProse is showing will be in-game.
Your slip is showing.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on September 10, 2019, 08:18:09 AM
I think that you guys don't understand the power and ease of the Unreal engine.
It really makes it that much easier for programmers/designers to do their job. Tons of top end games have been made with it so far. Its the new trend; use pre-made engines and it seems to be getting more popular.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: FLS on September 10, 2019, 08:36:23 AM
With all due respect, I still think it is in game.
Wait. Are you saying you think that that cockpit screenshot was taken in-game during game-play? That is clearly a static rendering not taken while playing the game. I don't believe they were even in the game client.
Here is a video of something that 1 amateur made in his spare time in UE 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEI-VAcs-2Q
Uhh that doesn't not even come close to the detail and resolution of the static, Maya pre-rendered cockpit you showed us. So that was supposed to prove what to us? But at least that guy has a in-game video.
October is not much more than two weeks away. Just show us the 5 min video from inside the actual game client flying around in actual terrain in an actual beta server against other actual players. Then we can evaluate the actual product ourselves.
The fact that you can not display video of anything flying at this point should be a big red flag. You are either not going to release in October, or worse, you will release a hot, steaming mess.
And when you don't release in October you will come back here and say, "Well, there is a slight delay of a year or two because we really want to get it right." and if you release a hot, steaming mess you will come back here and say: "This is just a first step. A foundation we can now improve on."
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Mister Fork on September 10, 2019, 02:28:28 PM
With all due respect, I still think it is in game.
Here is a video of something that 1 amateur made in his spare time in UE 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEI-VAcs-2Q
I totaly believe that what MicroProse is showing will be in-game.
Ok Archie. You need to cough up who you really are. We're sceptical because we don't know who you are and have no credibility with us. To establish said credibility, you need to inform us who you are - which I have my suspicions.
In general, to earn our trust, you need to let us know who you really are.
Unless your Shuffler. He's still a putz. :neener:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on September 10, 2019, 04:25:32 PM
Meanwhile on Brand-W's board:
Quote
I am curious...why are there no updates to the development of WB2020 thread here on iEN forums?
The only update I see is on AGW by someone who will not divulge his relationship with MicroProse and/or iEN.
Its disconcerting and leaves me wondering ...
And Mild-Dill has shown no signs of life since...mid-June? Unless he is Archie. :rofl
Oh.... and Archie registered on this forum in.....June. Imagine that.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on September 10, 2019, 04:29:54 PM
Ok Archie. You need to cough up who you really are. We're sceptical because we don't know who you are and have no credibility with us. To establish said credibility, you need to inform us who you are - which I have my suspicions.
In general, to earn our trust, you need to let us know who you really are.
Unless your Shuffler. He's still a putz. :neener:
Actually, HE doesn’t need to do anything. WE need to stop feeding him.
Just my opinion.
:salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: guncrasher on September 10, 2019, 11:40:36 PM
did you guys know the omaha steaks filet Mignon wrapped in bacon are really small? I mean they're great, but really small 2 bites and they're gone. damn pictures on the web site shows them at like 10 times the size.
semp
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on September 11, 2019, 02:10:31 AM
no but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last week...
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: noman on September 11, 2019, 08:10:36 AM
Scorpions sting not bite. :grin:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: hitech on September 11, 2019, 10:32:19 AM
Unbelievable.
First Micro Prose is simply a brand name and has not been a company since 1993.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroProse
2nd I have followed IENT on and off since I left in November of 1998 . I have a good estimate of their current yearly sales and expenses.
I also have an understanding of how much time and money it takes to develop games.
I also know Wild Bill and his product mentality. He believes he can sell a pig with lipstick. And quite frankly Bill is one of the best guys I know to head up a Sales & advertising division of marketing. Given a great product with no control over the content, Bill could sell the crap of it.
My guess is Bill may have purchased the Microprose trade mark or possibly made a deal to use it on one product. This would make since because Bill always saw himself at the reason Microprose was a success. He would still believe the Mircoprose reputation would be good to help rebrand his product and hence make it look like a new product. Go to the web page http://www.micropose.com it is nothing but a landing page with classic Bill all sizzle and no steak. ( I do wish I had someone who could create sizzle with my steak)
I hear a tale like this every few years. They always have one thing in common. Content images that did not come from in game, and were not described as what they really are. I.E. If real they would be described such as "Our current 109 image taken in Maya". Voss was the biggest , but anyone remember Target Korea? This was a real development that never got past it's alpha proof of concept stage.
I doubt Bill would be able to raise cash (do to past reputation in the investor world) for a complete development team but is still trying to relaunch Warbirds as a new title. Most likely he has one inexperienced coder porting WB to the Unreal engine. This would make since for them to do but is far more of an undertaking then they may estimate. The screen shot of the 109 is obviously a simple content creation screen shot in a 3d content creation program.
Making static screen shots is very simple and requires very little effort. The planes can be purchased inexpensively online from something like turbo squid. And then rendered with many different rendering packages. But the content is still a long way from game play able.We purchased many models from turbo squid as a starting point to create Aircraft and vehicles.
P.S. Any idea that Wild Bill came in and saved Warbirds is laughable. Warbirds started going down hill after I left. When I started AH WB had a larger customer base and revenue stream. Eventually we overtook them.Air Warrior and Fighter Aces closed.
HiTech
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2019, 10:41:02 AM
Wild Bill is the reason I am here. He was toxic. The man ran off his customer base, he definitely didn't save a thing.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on September 11, 2019, 11:15:05 AM
I came over from Fighter Ace. Never looked back.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on September 11, 2019, 11:41:04 AM
I also know Wild Bill and his product mentality. He believes he can sell a pig with lipstick. And quite frankly Bill is one of the best guys I know to head up a Sales & advertising division of marketing. Given a great product with no control over the content, Bill could sell the crap of it.
Heh. I have a real ambivalence towards guys like Bill. I don't know Bill, but I know the type.
He is probably a perfectly amiable guy. I suppose if you just met him at a party and he didn't have any power over you, or wasn't trying to sell you something, then I bet he would be a hoot to share a beer with.
However, I've worked for two tech companies run by salesmen that worked their way up to CEO due to their sales prowess. And then watched both destroy the companies through staggeringly stupid decisions. I swore I'd never again work for a tech company run by a salesman. I'll dig ditches first.
On the other hand, I am currently working for a tech company run by brilliant engineers with no sales or marketing people. I always liked to think of myself as reasonably bright, but these guys are on a whole different level. These guys are truly the most brilliant people I've ever worked for or with, and I think we have a revolutionary product that could make a real impact on the world, but we'll probably be insolvent in a year or so if something drastic doesn't change. Why? Because the geniuses I'm working for (and I'm not saying that cynically) can't sell their way out of a wet paper bag.
In their mind, they should just be able to read 50 books, extract the appropriated sales techniques and then design an efficient algorithm to implement the strategy. Sadly, it isn't that simple. It's a human thing, which always makes things more complicated. Or I like to think of it like Lord of the Rings. Each member of the Fellowship was from a different race that brought unique skills and talents to the team. NO one could shoot a bow like an Elve, or have the ferocity of a Dwarf, or the wily cunning of a Human, the magic of a Wizard, or the innocent heart of a Hobbit. Each one brought a unique gift to make a complete whole.
Salesmen just have that shameless personality and gregariousness that it takes to go out and cold-call and beat the bushes until they find a sale. That is literally a different race of being than your normal introverted tech engineer. Properly harnessed and directed, they can make the difference between insolvency and success.
Every Sid Meir needs a Wild Bill. But you never let one have control, for cripes sake! :D
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: snugar109 on September 11, 2019, 11:41:43 AM
I took a 10 year break because of the toxic environment in wb. Went back about 2 years ago to try it out and catch up with some old friends. Their latest update back then ran me off.
Wish I would have switched to AH when I took that 10 yr break, ahh hindsight. These last 10 months here have been nothing but entertaining and I am just now getting into the scenario stuff. Good times here and better plane modeling for sure.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on September 11, 2019, 12:47:38 PM
I hear a tale like this every few years. They always have one thing in common. Content images that did not come from in game, and were not described as what they really are. I.E. If real they would be described such as "Our current 109 image taken in Maya". Voss was the biggest , but anyone remember Target Korea? This was a real development that never got past it's alpha proof of concept stage.
Or...Confirmed Kill? :D You may have heard of that one. :D
I was on the beta of that one. I remember downloading a bunch of crap. I don't remember if I had anything flyable (I think I did) before I got the email they were abandoning the product at some point.
:rofl
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: icepac on September 11, 2019, 12:51:53 PM
Wild Bill is the reason I am here. He was toxic. The man ran off his customer base, he definitely didn't save a thing.
I remember your leaving was not by choice, skull1
That said, neither was mine but it was a simple mistake of my posting a link without checking who owned the site in the link. Hint: sneaky russian site.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2019, 01:56:20 PM
That said, neither was mine but it was a simple mistake of my posting a link without checking who owned the site in the link. Hint: sneaky russian site.
Why are you following me around the boards posting nonsense? You mad, bro? :ahand Take a chill pill or something.
I was in WBs until I left on my own and came here. My callsign was PrinzF (something like that any way) the day I walked out the door under my own power. I still have an account there as it stands, btw, but it is long dormant. Wild Bill is a tool and his game is D-E-A-D. I'm not giving him one more cent.
(I'm not going to get into a tit for tat over this stuff. It doesn't affect the Earth's rotation one iota any way.)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 11, 2019, 02:21:07 PM
P.S. Any idea that Wild Bill came in and saved Warbirds is laughable. Warbirds started going down hill after I left. When I started AH WB had a larger customer base and revenue stream. Eventually we overtook them.Air Warrior and Fighter Aces closed.
HiTech
And I mentioned in a previous post, killed MicroProse in the '90s with bad investment deals and ideas like moving into the arcade market.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2019, 02:21:46 PM
And I mentioned in a previous post, killed MicroProse in the '90s with bad investment deals and ideas like moving into the arcade market.
Would it have survived/thrived sticking with the PC world? Seems that consoles are where everything went, but then again, I don't know much of PC gaming these days. I sure was an addict as a kid that's for sure, starting with JET by SubLogic.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 11, 2019, 02:33:07 PM
He is probably a perfectly amiable guy. I suppose if you just met him at a party and he didn't have any power over you, or wasn't trying to sell you something, then I bet he would be a hoot to share a beer with.
He's not. He's actually a very boring person to have a beer with, which I had the unfortunate experience of back in '98 at the WB Con. It was all talk about him, from how he made MicroProse what it was, boring talk about his flying days in the USAF. He carried around a swagger like he was a fighter pilot in the USAAF but was actually a MAC pilot in the USAF.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2019, 02:33:53 PM
He's not. He's actually a very boring person to have a beer with, which I had the unfortunate experience of back in '98 at the WB Con. It was all talk about him, from how he made MicroProse what it was, boring talk about his flying days in the USAF. He carried around a swagger like he was a fighter pilot in the USAAF but was actually a MAC pilot in the USAF.
He says he flew A-37s. Is that not the case?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2019, 02:41:31 PM
Would it have survived/thrived sticking with the PC world? Seems that consoles are where everything went, but then again, I don't know much of PC gaming these days. I sure was an addict as a kid that's for sure, starting with JET by SubLogic.
I don't mean arcade as in the console market, he thought it was a good idea to make games for arcade games and invested heavily into it. It was like he was betting the farm that the arcade market would be more lucrative than the PC market. It was a bad time to invest in the arcade market as it was already in its downward spiral in the States due to the console market. MicroProse at the time was also on the decline because guys like Sid Meier had bailed, along with some of the little studios that actually made the games MicroProse distributed.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2019, 02:46:10 PM
I don't mean arcade as in the console market, he thought it was a good idea to make games for arcade games and invested heavily into it. It was like he was betting the farm that the arcade market would be more lucrative than the PC market. It was a bad time to invest in the arcade market as it was already in its downward spiral in the States due to the console market. MicroProse at the time was also on the decline because guys like Sid Meier had bailed, along with some of the little studios that actually made the games MicroProse distributed.
Ahhhhhhh, that makes sense.
I just meant that had he stuck with PCs he would have not done any better since consoles became the rage. Going to arcade just hastened the demise wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 11, 2019, 02:46:53 PM
Maybe before he was in MAC, which I believe he spent the majority of his career in while in the USAF.
Maybe. I seem to remember some pencil drawing on the inside cover of all his games where he talked about "pushing up the throttles on my A-37 Dragonfly" blah blah blah.
I found this. Says something about being a FAC in the A-37B.
(https://www.atarimagazines.com/v3n7/Stealey.JPG)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: hitech on September 11, 2019, 02:54:22 PM
It was like watching Commodore computer thunder in. Being a Dragonfly pilot doesn't necessarily make you a fighter pilot. It's the difference between a dirt track racer and a Formula 1 driver.
I remembered when Pyro and and you Hitech bailed. It was a big deal back then in the community and has us at Combatsim guessing when WB's would too thunder in. Here we are, 2019, and Aces High is STILL going.
Now...how to get AH some angel investor funding... :headscratch:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2019, 03:02:49 PM
Being a Dragonfly pilot doesn't necessarily make you a fighter pilot. It's the difference between a dirt track racer and a Formula 1 driver.
I don't know about that. One of the most dangerous jobs in the Vietnam War-era U.S. Air Force was being a FAC.
The A-37 had a massive T:W ratio for its day, too, when light.
I'm no apologist for the guy, but I'll give credit where credit is due. If it is due it's due. I let the facts call the shots.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on September 11, 2019, 03:23:30 PM
HT, you were the magic behind the games and which is why we all followed you here to AH. The only thing we want is for you to revive the game, nothing more nothing less. Warbirds 2020 is just a side show until that happens or incase you are unable to. We would all rather just play in our familiar territory then to jump ship.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on September 11, 2019, 03:32:27 PM
HT, you were the magic behind the games and which is why we all followed you here to AH. The only thing we want is for you to revive the game, nothing more nothing less. Warbirds 2020 is just a side show until that happens or incase you are unable to. We would all rather just play in our familiar territory then to jump ship.
LoL. You think you would profit from jumping Hitech's ship onto Wild Bill's?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2019, 03:36:39 PM
Now...how to get AH some angel investor funding... :headscratch:
That's easy, I have done it multiple times.
Now having an idea (that you believe and know how to implement) that you are fairly sure will turn a large profit. Not quite so easy.
HiTech
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2019, 03:45:51 PM
Investment isn't the problem. This game attracts players. We just have to figure out how to make them stick around in this world of instant gratification.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Mister Fork on September 11, 2019, 05:08:41 PM
Maybe our marketing should be on that it's a challenging high fidelity sim meant for serious MMO gamers seeking a realistic approach to combat simulation? Set it up as a challenge - that way they can't complain about things they normally moan about...?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on September 11, 2019, 07:36:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vrh97Jh.png)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on September 11, 2019, 07:48:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/u1QPwAu.png)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Mister Fork on September 12, 2019, 07:14:59 PM
:rofl
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 09, 2019, 02:43:15 PM
It's almost the middle of October...
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on October 09, 2019, 02:47:20 PM
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: FLS on October 11, 2019, 03:03:28 PM
It's too bad MSFS2020 will be overshadowed by the simultaneous release of Warbirds2020. It looks promising. Of course MSFS always looks promising. But THIS time, it really will be better. The flight model is completely different. Maybe even in a good way. :D
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Wiley on October 11, 2019, 03:26:27 PM
It's too bad MSFS2020 will be overshadowed by the simultaneous release of Warbirds2020. It looks promising. Of course MSFS always looks promising. But THIS time, it really will be better. The flight model is completely different. Maybe even in a good way. :D
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Oh I needed that belly laugh today. Thank you FLS. BTW, saw a video from a guy reviewing MSFS the other day. Ye GODS that looks amazing. Now if only they had WWII planes with guns, ord, and bases to take...
Wiley.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on October 11, 2019, 03:49:26 PM
Several folks were invited to check out MSFS 2020. Some really amazing work how they now have every airport on earth and the realism of the ground/views.
I have not owned MSFS for years but I might have to get this.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Wiley on October 11, 2019, 04:46:48 PM
The clouds/weather... Stuff like DCS and this aren't generally my thing but wow.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on October 11, 2019, 06:30:45 PM
New 51 skin? Brother...quit all the INVERTED FLYING. Its going to your head :rofl Not saying I don't like it, mind you :salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on October 12, 2019, 12:51:22 AM
They been busy over there. Much work on FMs, toejamload of new planes and variants, several new terrains. Supposedly a new build on a different engine coming out.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 12, 2019, 12:55:15 AM
Oh I needed that belly laugh today. Thank you FLS. BTW, saw a video from a guy reviewing MSFS the other day. Ye GODS that looks amazing. Now if only they had WWII planes with guns, ord, and bases to take...
Wiley.
I flew the alpha they had a few weeks back, I was actually able to spot the apartment building I used to live in near LAX.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on October 12, 2019, 12:55:29 AM
Look. It's still alive and posting. :D
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 12, 2019, 12:57:32 AM
They been busy over there. Much work on FMs, toejamload of new planes and variants, several new terrains. Supposedly a new build on a different engine coming out.
You're like Beetlejuice, just need to say "October" three times and you show up. :devil
What happened to the Unreal 4 engine? Proved a little too difficult to modify? :rofl
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on October 12, 2019, 01:21:16 AM
What happened to the Unreal 4 engine? Proved a little too difficult to modify? :rofl
Idk, my guess would be that they want to have big scale which Unreal can't provide so they decided to go with the Outtera which they have and it can render whole world.
Probably they won't make it in October :cry
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on October 12, 2019, 01:39:52 AM
Idk, my guess would be that they want to have big scale which Unreal can't provide so they decided to go with the Outtera which they have and it can render whole world.
Probably they won't make it in October :cry
You poor vulnerable child. Have they hit you up for funds yet?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on October 12, 2019, 01:41:42 AM
Idk, my guess would be that they want to have big scale which Unreal can't provide so they decided to go with the Outtera which they have and it renders whole world.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
I'm shocked. :rolleyes:
But surely they can still make October! All they have to do is swap out the fundamental base technological layer. I'm sure it will work perfectly after the last line compiles. No need to alpha test or beta test. :rofl
I mean, I'm literally even more flabbergasted than I thought I would be. Even I was aware of the issues U4 had with large scale open environments, though I've seen some hints there were ways of dealing with that. I surely thought some competent engineer would have fully researched the issue and proved out the technologies before careening off to try and base the companies flagship product on it. I was waiting to be intrigued and impressed. Now I'm just amused with a touch of disgust on the side.
Who is coding over there? A couple of H1B shaved-ape script-kiddies? Jeebus, Joseph and Mary. At least you are keeping us better informed that the actual paying customers over on brand-W's board. I don't see any admition over there that they are starting over again. Afraid they'll tear you to pieces with their bare hands?
Oh well. Hey, can we get some more fake pre-rendered screen shots from the new engine?
:rolleyes: Note: there is simply no emoticon sufficiently dismissive to capture my thoughts at this moment accurately.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on October 12, 2019, 02:11:20 AM
That's the way the cookie crumbles
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on October 12, 2019, 02:14:37 AM
However there are still 3 weeks of october left :D
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on October 12, 2019, 06:51:16 AM
Well .... guess that's good. "In two weeks" is trademarked. :D
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on October 12, 2019, 08:13:31 AM
They been busy over there. Much work on FMs, toejamload of new planes and variants, several new terrains. Supposedly a new build on a different engine coming out.
Epic troll. Well done! :aok
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on October 12, 2019, 10:03:12 AM
The fact that you can not display video of anything flying at this point should be a big red flag. You are either not going to release in October, or worse, you will release a hot, steaming mess.
And when you don't release in October you will come back here and say, "Well, there is a slight delay of a year or two because we really want to get it right." and if you release a hot, steaming mess you will come back here and say: "This is just a first step. A foundation we can now improve on."
I wonder when someone is going to inform the poor schmucks over on brand-W's BBS that the project is starting over again with a new engine. Mild Dill hasn't condescended to give them any updates since like June or something. Probably about the time they realized their project was in deep kimchi. They still think things are humming along and expect a release any day now. :rofl Suckeeeeeers.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 13, 2019, 09:45:01 AM
If they will delay the game to make it the best possible they can, then all the better.
Quite honestly, it shows the lack of experience on the side of the development team. They should have vetted out the Unreal 4 engine during the pre-production phase to ensure the engine met their needs, it's basically wasted money since they had to pay Epic a license fee to use the U4 engine for commercial purposes. Because they failed to do that, the development road map is out dated because of the delay switching to the new engine. Delays cost money, money it seems MicroProse really doesn't have to throw away.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on October 13, 2019, 10:18:54 AM
Quite honestly, it shows the lack of experience on the side of the development team. They should have vetted out the Unreal 4 engine during the pre-production phase to ensure the engine met their needs, [....]
Shaved-Ape H1B script-kiddies.
Of course, they might be smarter than we think. Maybe they knew and didn't tell Bill because they wanted to get a couple of months resume experience with a commercially viable engine so they could bail and find jobs elsewhere before that Titanic rolls over.
Nah, they're probably not that smart.
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on October 13, 2019, 01:04:08 PM
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on October 13, 2019, 02:55:57 PM
Hey ack-ack, last I checked UE4 is free to everybody but Epic gets a certain cut of the profits depending on the size of the studio and said profits,I think.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 13, 2019, 06:00:34 PM
Hey ack-ack, last I checked UE4 is free to everybody but Epic gets a certain cut of the profits depending on the size of the studio and said profits,I think.
It's free for non-commercial use but once you commercialize the product, you have to pay a fee to Epic. It's going to be either a license fee or a royalty fee.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on October 16, 2019, 12:37:44 AM
It's free for non-commercial use but once you commercialize the product, you have to pay a fee to Epic. It's going to be either a license fee or a royalty fee.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DycpyPSV4AAC_lS.jpg)
Epic takes % once you start making money out of your game, since they haven't even released yet (yet alone start make money) they haven't payed a cent.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vulcan on October 16, 2019, 01:33:12 AM
Epic takes % once you start making money out of your game, since they haven't even released yet (yet alone start make money) they haven't payed a cent.
That's what he said dumbarse. And you cannot release what does not exist.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 16, 2019, 06:54:43 AM
Epic takes % once you start making money out of your game, since they haven't even released yet (yet alone start make money) they haven't payed a cent.
That's what I said in my post.
By switching to a new engine, it's going to cause a delay in development and production. This isn't going to go well with the stake-holders (investors), they are probably going to demand that Microprose meet their milestones they've set or risk losing funding or having it delayed. In game development, time is money and time lost means money lost. This also leads me to believe that the vaunted producer you've so elevated to near god like status, isn't a very good one. He should have known the engine his company uses for their products is the engine they should have gone with since it met all of their criteria but instead he decided to use an engine that isn't well suited for the game they want to develop, which cost them time and money.
You'll probably see an announcement pushing back the release date to sometime in 2020. You'll probably also see mentions in gaming sites that Microprose has had to lay off some employees because of the money lost due to the delays and lack of experience of those working on the project.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: lutrel on October 16, 2019, 09:29:18 AM
No thanks, I flew in WarBirds for ten years before I came here and I've had a life time's worth of 'two more weeks' already; I'll be staying right here.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on October 16, 2019, 10:30:12 AM
No thanks, I flew in WarBirds for ten years before I came here and I've had a life time's worth of 'two more weeks' already; I'll be staying right here.
So true!
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: snugar109 on October 16, 2019, 11:46:13 AM
No thanks, I flew in WarBirds for ten years before I came here and I've had a life time's worth of 'two more weeks' already; I'll be staying right here.
Same here, I like right where I'm at.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: guncrasher on October 16, 2019, 02:43:34 PM
This thread remind me if this taco place by my house, it had a small kitchen fire and was closed by the firedeparment. It had the worst food, but it was popular for people who didn't know any better.
Anyway it was supposed to open last July, it didn't, the remodeling company pulled out due to non payment, then it's September, they even asked for donations to help, here's October and the kitchen didn't pass inspection, so maybe next year taco Joe's will open to serve the worst food ever.
Semp
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Devil 505 on October 16, 2019, 02:58:20 PM
This thread remind me if this taco place by my house, it had a small kitchen fire and was closed by the firedeparment. It had the worst food, but it was popular for people who didn't know any better.
Anyway it was supposed to open last July, it didn't, the remodeling company pulled out due to non payment, then it's September, they even asked for donations to help, here's October and the kitchen didn't pass inspection, so maybe next year taco Joe's will open to serve the worst food ever.
Semp
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Meatwad on October 16, 2019, 03:19:21 PM
This thread remind me if this taco place by my house, it had a small kitchen fire and was closed by the firedeparment. It had the worst food, but it was popular for people who didn't know any better.
Anyway it was supposed to open last July, it didn't, the remodeling company pulled out due to non payment, then it's September, they even asked for donations to help, here's October and the kitchen didn't pass inspection, so maybe next year taco Joe's will open to serve the worst food ever.
Semp
We have one of those over here too but I dont think its the same group of people running it. I been in there once before it opened up and the first thing I was met with was the horrible stench of raw sewage. Never set foot back in since.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on November 06, 2019, 03:37:09 PM
They've updated the steam page and it says now 'february 2020'
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: guncrasher on November 06, 2019, 03:46:10 PM
They've updated the steam page and it says now 'february 2020'
Like NOBODY saw this coming.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on November 07, 2019, 06:23:36 AM
Guys, there is a difference between being in development limbo and being delayed. Also releasing too early is a problem; it is true what archie said, just remember WW2OL.
Blizzard always (used to at least) waited till the game was perfect before releasing as an example and look how successful they have been.
The point is that its like cooking, you cant overcook it or under cook it, it has to be just right. The only thing we are discussing here is if there is actually anyone in the kitchen to begin with.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on November 07, 2019, 07:22:28 AM
Guys, there is a difference between being in development limbo and being delayed. Also releasing too early is a problem; it is true what archie said, just remember WW2OL.
Blizzard always (used to at least) waited till the game was perfect before releasing as an example and look how successful they have been.
The point is that its like cooking, you cant overcook it or under cook it, it has to be just right. The only thing we are discussing here is if there is actually anyone in the kitchen to begin with.
More so... are the lights even on?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Wiley on November 07, 2019, 10:10:31 AM
A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.
Ignoring the fact that not every delayed game winds up being eventually good...
Thank you, Archie. Thank you for a desperately needed belly laugh on a cold November morning. Applying a quote from a man whose worst game ever produced still sold millions and comparing him to Wild Bill and IENT... That is truly monumental... something.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on November 07, 2019, 12:22:00 PM
Guys, there is a difference between being in development limbo and being delayed. Also releasing too early is a problem; it is true what archie said, just remember WW2OL.
Blizzard always (used to at least) waited till the game was perfect before releasing as an example and look how successful they have been.
The point is that its like cooking, you cant overcook it or under cook it, it has to be just right. The only thing we are discussing here is if there is actually anyone in the kitchen to begin with.
I reject your basic premise.
I don't believe this is a team that is converging in on a release and they just need a little more time to put the final polish on and make it perfect.
They are not refining, they are floundering. They are starting completely over again with an entirely new engine. Because someone obviously didn't do the most basic technological due diligence before vectoring their entire flagship product down that path.
I was shocked when I read they were going to use the UR4 engine. UR4 is a powerful engine, but not optimized for the type of game Warbirds is. Any amateur game programmer probably knows there is a whole host of potential problems. I think Unreal limits their physics something like 12km from origin due to floating-point imprecision causing movement jitters and collision test failure past that. They have a world origin shifting capability, but last time I saw that didn't support multi-player. It just wasn't designed for large scale terrain (hundreds of km) open worlds.
Regardless, it should have been obvious that was a high risk decision (if you did like 30 min of Googling) and there should have been careful prototyping to prove out that engine compatibility with their requirements.
I assumed someone had done that. I was mildly intrigued and interested to see how they were going to pull it off. I assumed they had come up with a clever workaround or was prototyping an advanced implementation from Epic. It turns out, no, someone just had their heads up their wazoo.
Everything I've seen so far, from the failure to choose the proper engine, to that embarrassingly bad rivet-plane, suggests to me the delay isn't because these guys aren't perfectionists. It suggests they are clueless dolts who are in way over their head.
If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow and tilt them a beer. But to do that, they will need to release something impressive. My guess is Oct 2019 turned to Feb 2020 and that will turn to Summer 2020 and that will turn to Winter 2020, etc, etc. So, I'm feeling pretty safe at the moment. And they still haven't even had the basic courtesy to give their players on the WB BBS an update letting them know the situation and the delay. Maybe they are just too embarrassed. They should be.
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 07, 2019, 01:04:14 PM
A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.
That comment shows how little you really know about any sort of game development. There are hundreds of games that have been delayed only to be crap once released. Duke Nukem Forever being on of the better known.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Drano on November 07, 2019, 03:12:34 PM
That comment shows how little you really know about any sort of game development. There are hundreds of games that have been delayed only to be crap once released. Duke Nukem Forever being on of the better known.
Quit reminding me of that! I really loved me some Duke! Hail to the king, baby!
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on November 08, 2019, 05:43:25 AM
That comment shows how little you really know about any sort of game development. There are hundreds of games that have been delayed only to be crap once released. Duke Nukem Forever being on of the better known.
It's a quote by Shigeru Miyamoto
Quote
But to do that, they will need to release something impressive
It's a coming, and it will bedazzle :old:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on November 08, 2019, 07:29:55 AM
Archie there is no guarantee that it will be any good when its released even if its given proper time; are any of the programmers geniuses? What do we know about the real people doing the work?
I was saying that a product must be "cooked" right for it to be any good but cooking still takes talent. We don't know anything about the people behind it so there is no guarantee to have a well refined finished product. We can only hope at this point.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on November 08, 2019, 08:07:49 AM
Archie there is no guarantee that it will be any good when its released even if its given proper time
That's true, however I think that if they did not want a quality product, they would just release what they have now to earn some quick buck and call it a day.
Quote
are any of the programmers geniuses? What do we know about the real people doing the work?
I don't know if there are any geniuses....... the coder that is doing the work is Mr. David Lagettie, he owns the commercial license for Outerra engine ( it can render whole world) and he built a military simulator out of it (Titanim) for the military forces around the world.
Before that he created Virtual Battle Simulator which was also for military and was based on Bohemia Interactive 'Armed Assault' series.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on November 09, 2019, 02:18:28 AM
Here you can see what he has created a few years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hkEuwa41bc
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on November 09, 2019, 09:45:58 AM
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Arlo on November 09, 2019, 10:21:49 AM
Enough's enough, Shida. :cool:
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Mister Fork on November 09, 2019, 10:46:58 AM
I flew around the WB2018 version - it sucks donkey balls from a fidelity perspective. Aces High has the flight model and simulation/physics modeling down pat. WB just felt mushy at times and others aircraft flew on rails. It’s as if they overdid the low speed model and friged up the physics overall.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Totalsims is the publisher or developer of WB20?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on November 09, 2019, 12:08:52 PM
I flew around the WB2018 version - it sucks donkey balls from a fidelity perspective. Aces High has the flight model and simulation/physics modeling down pat. WB just felt mushy at times and others aircraft flew on rails. It’s as if they overdid the low speed model and friged up the physics overall.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Totalsims is the publisher or developer of WB20?
They both have their issues, but at least WBs doesn't have the ridiculous rudder dance wobble we do. Still, the graphics suck. Can't believe I played that game for so many years.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on November 11, 2019, 01:00:55 AM
Brand-W's update on their bbs
"WarBirds Pilots,
We announced last year a partnership with the new MicroProse Software company, my original game company, to update WarBirds 2020 with new graphics with investment by MicroProse.
We worked on putting our current terrains into Unreal 4 to provide better graphics.
After about 6 months of work by our SPINDZ and a group of outside contractors and in consultation with MicroProse, we made the decision that WarBirds 2020 would get an even bigger upgrade and use the new worldwide graphics system of the MicroProse CEO instead of Unreal 4.
The Titan graphics system. has been used in real world military systems for the last 5 years, and is being continually enhanced and now brought to MicroProse’s new games including WarBirds 2020. titanim.net
We will add even more updated aircraft and cockpits as we move to Titan.
We will have updated the User Interface, added more Rank, Medals, and Promotions to successed in the game, added new training for new players, improved lighting and shadings on the current terrains, implemented a new and improved billing system with more security for all, and will focus on great events as we continue to move to WarBirds 2021.
e will continue to add some of the great new art for the new aircraft, external and internal views, as we work on converting all graphics in the game to the Titan system.
While we hoped to do the great new terrains and graphics with WarBirds 2020, the excellence and high fidelity of the Titan engine, which is and will take a lot of work, will be even bigger than anything we could have done with Unreal!
With the WarBirds 2020 release we will also start additional new marketing to bring in both returning players and new players.
Thanks for your continuing support and for flying WarBirds."
So they are indeed using Titanim, now this is exciting news. :salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: AAIK on November 11, 2019, 07:59:53 AM
TitanIM looks pretty good, reminds me of battlefield but just on a much larger scale.
My only complaint is the really basic clouds. Its like something from the 90s.
What's with the "Warbirds 2021" bit? They say 2021 but say 2020 afterwords? What are they playing at?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on November 11, 2019, 08:46:34 AM
I thought surely that isn't the new, new engine graphics! But that is what Archie/Bill posted in his thread concerning the new engine.
LoL. Go back to statically pre-rendered concept art Bill!
No one has even so much as responded over there. I think they are looking at that and saying, WUT?
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on November 12, 2019, 01:01:07 AM
The screenshot is from current warbirds, but the cockpit is not......... Warbirds had 2d cockpits, while this is 3d, I guess he is showing that they will have 3d cockpits in the game before 'Titanim' ?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vulcan on November 12, 2019, 02:28:15 AM
Isn't Outterra commercial licensing pricey?
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Shuffler on November 12, 2019, 02:48:13 AM
That looks terrible.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 12, 2019, 05:26:44 AM
That's true, however I think that if they did not want a quality product, they would just release what they have now to earn some quick buck and call it a day.
I don't know if there are any geniuses....... the coder that is doing the work is Mr. David Lagettie, he owns the commercial license for Outerra engine ( it can render whole world) and he built a military simulator out of it (Titanim) for the military forces around the world.
Before that he created Virtual Battle Simulator which was also for military and was based on Bohemia Interactive 'Armed Assault' series.
Lagettie is not the one writing the code, he isn't a programmer. He is a producer/designer and had some experience in sound design due to his work as a deejay.
If he was a programmer, he would have known the difficulties in porting WB to the U4 engine. If he was a good game designer/producer he never would have wasted money on trying to port WB to the U4 engine.
Also, there is a difference in creating simulations for government agencies as opposed to designing game simulations. One needs to be fun to play, the other does not.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Vraciu on November 12, 2019, 07:59:28 AM
I was hoping you'd pick that up. Either that or a K.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
The K was a Dallas-built D so it had the short tail. The H and the Cavalier had the tall one. Can't remember about the TF-51D though. :headscratch: :salute
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: CptTrips on November 13, 2019, 08:43:03 AM
Series 8 is the most painful for me to watch, trying too hard to make a joke and losing the essence of the first several seasons
8 was a letdown, I know I watched back to earth and was not impressed, but to be honest I can't remember a thing about it. I was not aware they did anything after that, is X and beyond any good at all?
Wiley.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: phatzo on November 19, 2019, 03:19:52 AM
I skipped all 31 pages. It will be crap and as Gman said, Wild Bill is a Richard Cranium.
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: guncrasher on November 19, 2019, 11:48:19 AM
you mean like sikes in alien nation. excrement and cranium.
semp
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Archie on January 27, 2020, 10:46:14 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPKRcuqWkAAvW4I.jpg)
Title: Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
Post by: Mister Fork on January 27, 2020, 05:18:29 PM