It reaches more players and former players than the Message Board does.
How can we harness it to help the game?
And I'd heard Facebook was for old farts and that Instagram was in. Or out. Or was it snapchat?
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: 100Coogn on November 07, 2019, 01:21:01 PM
(Pretend) WWII pilots don't use this new fangdangled technology. :old:
Coogan
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Wiley on November 07, 2019, 01:33:01 PM
Well, considering the mean age in the MA these days, maybe advertising to old people will yield results. What they really need to do is get one of the Instagram butt models to mention AH on a regular basis. That will get exposure.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Spikes on November 07, 2019, 01:33:11 PM
Social media buzz in general is good for a game. The more word of mouth the better. I'd really love to get the reddit community going as it is one of the biggest 'communities' in the world, and totally free.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: ACE on November 07, 2019, 01:39:04 PM
Social media buzz in general is good for a game. The more word of mouth the better. I'd really love to get the reddit community going as it is one of the biggest 'communities' in the world, and totally free.
I’m on reddit a ton and would love to help any way I can.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Vraciu on November 07, 2019, 01:52:34 PM
I refuse to allow MyFace to make money off of me. Dumped it years ago.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 07, 2019, 02:29:02 PM
A company would be crazy to ignore FB. I don't use it, but the number of people who do is staggering. And not only the breadth, but because the data is structured, ads can be much more precisely targeted than any TV commercial.
How neither FB, nor Reddit, nor standing on a street corner wearing a placard, addresses what I feel the the elephant in the room. The fundamental failure point.
According to the last stats I saw Hitech post, conversions rate is "around" 1%. Something about the player experience is not closing the deal. Unless you can improve that, you are mostly whizzing in the wind. But it doesn't hurt anything if it uses volunteer effort, but it is the reason it doesn't make sense to throw money at the marketing until you can raise that success rate. You'd be better off just burning the money to save on heating costs. ;)
$0.02, CptTrips
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Wiley on November 07, 2019, 02:39:47 PM
According to the last stats I saw Hitech post, conversions rate is "around" 1%. Something about the player experience is not closing the deal. Unless you can improve that, you are mostly whizzing in the wind. But it doesn't hurt anything if it uses volunteer effort, but it is the reason it doesn't make sense to throw money at the marketing until you can raise that success rate. You'd be better off just burning the money to save on heating costs. ;)
$0.02, CptTrips
This. More advertising does not solve everything.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: hitech on November 07, 2019, 03:13:06 PM
A company would be crazy to ignore FB. I don't use it, but the number of people who do is staggering. And not only the breadth, but because the data is structured, ads can be much more precisely targeted than any TV commercial.
Tried it with about $15k in adds, was a dismal failure.
HiTech
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Nefarious on November 07, 2019, 03:27:56 PM
Tried it with about $15k in adds, was a dismal failure.
HiTech
While that is unfortunate and recall the ads that were ran, I'm not quite certain that's what is needed. Communities and groups need regular content to discuss or even better themselves in the game. There is literally a Facebook Group or Page for everything, and for me personally, I really feel like the groups and pages are/have the best content on Facebook.
I guess, I too, am not with the times with reddit. Perhaps I should check it out.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 07, 2019, 03:29:34 PM
Tried it with about $15k in adds, was a dismal failure.
HiTech
Yeah, I've heard they can be hit or miss. I haven't used FB ads but other ad systems I've used can be VERY sensitive to keyword optimization. A/B testing... it's a whole freaking science. Google ads are the same. You can pour a whole lot of money down the drain fast if you don't do it right. Not my area of expertise.
What was the failure? No clicks? Clicks but no downloads? Download bump but no conversion?
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: The Fugitive on November 07, 2019, 03:54:25 PM
A company would be crazy to ignore FB. I don't use it, but the number of people who do is staggering. And not only the breadth, but because the data is structured, ads can be much more precisely targeted than any TV commercial.
How neither FB, nor Reddit, nor standing on a street corner wearing a placard, addresses what I feel the the elephant in the room. The fundamental failure point.
According to the last stats I saw Hitech post, conversions rate is "around" 1%. Something about the player experience is not closing the deal. Unless you can improve that, you are mostly whizzing in the wind. But it doesn't hurt anything if it uses volunteer effort, but it is the reason it doesn't make sense to throw money at the marketing until you can raise that success rate. You'd be better off just burning the money to save on heating costs. ;)
$0.02, CptTrips
That might be where social media could help the most. If more and more player are posting of how tough it is to learn and those things that can help get over that hump, maybe it could temper the frustration new players feel when they log in.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: ROC on November 07, 2019, 03:58:48 PM
"Everyone uses something, no one uses everything" I kept that in mind as I started to expand the social media market for my company. I also had to keep in mind I have more important things to do than stay on social media all day or pay someone to do it. So I structured my systems to auto-populate each other. If I send an email out for an event through constant contact, for example, it updates my twitter, facebook, linked-in and instagram feeds at the same time. This in turn updates the facebook feed on the website, which causes the site to refresh, increasing it's activity, and on and on. Creating facebook events is easy, and free. You also push out to your page subscribers who like and share, and this pushed their activity to their friends who then see the event. Special events, scenarios, FSO, has active members who are participating and can be asked to discuss the event on the respective page, which again gets their friends to see what they are doing, and encourages them to fly with them. Imagine each person in FSO getting 1 friend to fly with them. That friend get's another. It's not always about spending money on ads. I refuse to buy ads on google, facebook or anything but the recognition is there. I was just talking to my staff about this not an hour ago as we got another new member who joined us out from the bay area and we came up in the search for our type of business higher ranked than the 4 companies like mine in between Richmond and Sacramento. It is a bit of work to set it all up, I had to completely rebuild and redesign my website and put in all the interconnected plugins, and it's not as effective as it could be if I really dedicated my effort into it, but for an auto-pilot effort it really gets attention.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Vraciu on November 07, 2019, 04:49:13 PM
Target audience.
The thread about the setup at an air museum is a great example.
The CAF, Lone Star Flight Museum, Frontiers of Flight, etc. all have space for some simulator stations. Give them six months at a reduced price if they use a coupon code from their admission ticket to the museum or something...
Of course, the new player interface has to be ready first or it will be a waste of effort.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: DmonSlyr on November 07, 2019, 05:28:50 PM
The way I see it, TV and YouTube commercials/sponsors are the way to do it. Hire some popular YouTubers to sponsor your game. They can do a quick 30 sec commercial about the game. If you can get a commercial on any MSM TV channel, it would probably generate tons of new users to try the game. Most of the feed back on the boards I've heard is from people who found this game from the TV commercial.
That being said, these days, when a player wants to downloads the game, it should ask them if they are using a mouse or a Joystick/Peds/throttle. Then after they click one, The system should have a tutorial on how to set up them up so they can fly right away after setting it up. I believe the majority of people's issues is setting up their equipment so that they can fly comfortably.
Also, the field of view setting needs to be an easy button so they can adjust it to their preference right away. Starting 3 inches from the aimer really isn't the best for new players. They should be able to easily adjust it to there preference right off the bat. I think that would help tremendously. Setting up the equipment is probably the biggest hassle that new players face.
Also, I think the subscription model after that scares a lot of people away. It just makes it sound expensive, even tho it really isn't.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: AKKuya on November 07, 2019, 07:03:37 PM
The future of AH with Facebook is a starting point along with YouTube and other social media. The real future is Face to Face with demonstrational set-ups and instructional information through verbal and hands on training to get the new player interested. Air shows, museums, mall and everywhere large crowds or foot traffic will be.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: FLOOB on November 07, 2019, 07:58:03 PM
Maybe it’s time to get the Russians involved. :)
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Arlo on November 07, 2019, 08:25:23 PM
No new posts in almost a year. That is the point, social media works on activity. The more action, the more it is noticed, which of course creates more activity.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 07, 2019, 08:46:55 PM
I suspect people were suggesting a high intensity of engagement.
The joining, and creations of, and activity in interest groups, etc, etc.
I don't see how Hitech has time for all that, but maybe he needs to empower a Social Media Team of community volunteers.
You have a Scenario Team, a Training Corps, maybe you need a Social Media Team to plan out strategies and get Hitechs blessing and then go forth. Individual players can do a certain amount, but maybe a team can take on certain more formal task such as posting to the official HTC Youtube regularly. Posting on the HTC twitter and Instagram regularly with content such as upcoming Scenarios. Maybe giving limited permissions to member for updating a section of the main page with regular content.
Etc, Etc.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: The Fugitive on November 07, 2019, 09:20:15 PM
I suspect people were suggesting a high intensity of engagement.
The joining, and creations of, and activity in interest groups, etc, etc.
I don't see how Hitech has time for all that, but maybe he needs to empower a Social Media Team of community volunteers.
You have a Scenario Team, a Training Corps, maybe you need a Social Media Team to plan out strategies and get Hitechs blessing and then go forth. Individual players can do a certain amount, but maybe a team can take on certain more formal task such as posting to the official HTC Youtube regularly. Posting on the HTC twitter and Instagram regularly with content such as upcoming Scenarios. Maybe giving limited permissions to member for updating a section of the main page with regular content.
Etc, Etc.
HTC had "social media" girl for a bit. She posted a few times and then she was gone. Why, never heard. Was it HTC not willing to give up info to post? Was it because the girl didnt bother to post? Who knows. The point is that it never took off. I always thought..... and still do that social media is the way to go at pushing the game for minimal outlay in the money department.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Oldman731 on November 07, 2019, 09:50:54 PM
Tried it with about $15k in adds, was a dismal failure.
HiTech
Internet advertising is more expensive than many people know. We spend $10k per month (not once, not twice, but 12x each year) for just one aspect of our firm, and could easily triple that to get better coverage.
Very easy to say “advertise,” but not so easy to do with a small company budget.
- oldman
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: DmonSlyr on November 07, 2019, 10:33:33 PM
Internet advertising is more expensive than many people know. We spend $10k per month (not once, not twice, but 12x each year) for just one aspect of our firm, and could easily triple that to get better coverage.
Very easy to say “advertise,” but not so easy to do with a small company budget.
- oldman
In all fairness, I believe about 98% of the American population has never even heard of Aces High. No one ive ever talked to has ever heard of it. Which may be a good thing in some instances. As many have noticed, there are 0 cool post on the social media sites, or the website, and probably even steam. I've given tons of examples in other post on how to Improve them.
We need some one who is actually interested in WW2 and AH events to operate them. There is so much more that could be done to make this game look a lot cooler on the outside for not very much. I really don't get it. There is very little enthusiasm from my perspective...
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: atlau on November 08, 2019, 08:58:50 AM
In all fairness, I believe about 98% of the American population has never even heard of Aces High. No one ive ever talked to has ever heard of it. Which may be a good thing in some instances. As many have noticed, there are 0 cool post on the social media sites, or the website, and probably even steam. I've given tons of examples in other post on how to Improve them.
We need some one who is actually interested in WW2 and AH events to operate them. There is so much more that could be done to make this game look a lot cooler on the outside for not very much. I really don't get it. There is very little enthusiasm from my perspective...
98%?? That would be 3 million people.
I'm guessing the number is more like 99.99%
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Spikes on November 08, 2019, 09:14:09 AM
Not sure if the number matters, regardless it is very small.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Mister Fork on November 08, 2019, 09:45:29 AM
Hitech would be wise to appoint us as admins as ambassadors of his product so we can post updates and alike regularly on the facebook AND Instagram site.
I'll stick my hand up.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 08, 2019, 09:48:11 AM
oops
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: atlau on November 08, 2019, 10:07:31 AM
Hitech would be wise to appoint us as admins as ambassadors of his product so we can post updates and alike regularly on the facebook AND Instagram site.
I'll stick my hand up.
I dont want to see your duckface selfies!
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Shuffler on November 08, 2019, 10:39:15 AM
I have a facebook name but do not use facebook at all. Only reason for name is to post on so called news sites.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Mister Fork on November 08, 2019, 12:13:13 PM
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Ciaphas on November 08, 2019, 04:54:58 PM
The wonderful world of social media is world full of forks in the toad and plenty of toll booths.
I have teenage boys and a 4 yr old and they seem to watch people play video games when they are not not allowed to play them and all chores are done, yes the 4 yr old has chores (cleaning his bedroom and picking his toys up from around the house).
It takes more than a company advertising a game to make it visible to the masses. It takes a combined effort from the company and the player base. I would say it's more on the player base as they are the ones interacting with the masses every time they stream or upload a video.
The key is to make your stream interesting and engaging to those that view it. It would also help if the company hosted streaming events and talked up new features and showing tips and tricks while doing so.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Shuffler on November 09, 2019, 07:47:28 AM
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: The Fugitive on November 09, 2019, 08:46:02 AM
I started this page a few years ago.
https://www.facebook.com/FlightCityRadio/
While flying , during climb outs or sitting in the tower ..... again :) Id post little notes of what was going on in the game. Not giving any "info" away or anything but kind of a running commentary of what was going on "in the war". My hope was first that people would like it. It would solve one of those wishes we see now and then about ingame info being available with out having to log in. And second that a few others would join in and post during those times I wasnt. I did get a couple post from others but there just didnt seem to be much interest for others to post. Maybe they didnt have the equipment to facebook at the same time as they played ( used an old laptop I had). I dont know.
It was only up a few months but it was getting likes. I was starting to let players IN GAME know that I posted their comments, jokes, burns, and so on, but I wasnt playing often enough to keep it going by myself. I still think it would be a great way for players to keep in touch with the game through facebook. Players leaving school/work headed home could post asking if a friend was playing and who ever was running the game at the time could post if he was on the roster, or what map was up. Generate traffic
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Dragdad on November 11, 2019, 03:39:19 PM
Tried it with about $15k in adds, was a dismal failure.
HiTech
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: bustr on November 12, 2019, 03:18:42 PM
Is the target demographic still rugged individualists who weave their own depends from cave bear hair babyboomers who have yet to hear about AH3 selling them our geezer daycare center called the MA. Or is it teens through 30 somethings who need to be engaged with their own level of expectation and imagery? POTW has been playing other games lately and looking into others. Hitech's AH3 game engine will support the imagery and eyecandy expected by the younger demographics but, the "Hook", is a little long in the tooth to keep them.
AH is a benchmark for throwing a kid off a cliff and teaching him to swim in shark infested waters fighting them off with a tooth pick while dressed in a self woven thong. Heck many over the years bragged about doing the process commando. That was all of us when we were first young playing PC games, AW\WB then the golden years of AH. Hitech didn't need to do a thing for us and we didn't want him to. We wanted to solve all the problems ourselves becasue that was our generation.
Who do you want to target?
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Arlo on November 12, 2019, 04:19:05 PM
I imagine HT'd like an average of at least a decade per new player before they have a heart attack in the MA.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: 800nate800 on November 13, 2019, 05:18:51 PM
need a more social medi buzz any way possible. instagram and facebook can revive up alot of numbers. facebook to draw older players and draw some old players back and instagram for the general spreading of word
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: zack1234 on November 14, 2019, 01:40:11 AM
Facebook is for fat girls and soy boys.
If your on facebook your light on your feet
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: flyrc2 on November 14, 2019, 10:35:34 AM
We started using social media for our local. Just a way to get PR rolling. Someone already said it, the more you use it, the more it gets used. Didn't take us long to get some posts over 10K views.
It's definitely a snowball affect. We mainly post to instagram because from there you can automatically hit all 3. Maybe some squad or country pages to garner some interest? The more players you can get involved through social media, the more it will spread. I've been out of this game for quite a while. When I quit playing 15ish years ago, the main arenas were huge. In the last couple of months since I've been back, the most I've seen online at one time is a little over 100.
Fire5
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: ROC on November 14, 2019, 12:56:09 PM
Quote
Facebook is for fat girls and soy boys.
If your on facebook your light on your feet
Not everyone is part of your private groups :rofl
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: mthrockmor on November 20, 2019, 09:45:34 PM
I'm abit of a Facebool aficionado. With my company we spend about $50k a year in ads.
Facebook is about 35 years an older, though if you blast an ad on Facebook it will automatically get blasted to Instagram. The great thing about that, youth use Instagram, our age use Facebook. I remember a few years ago someone did a survey and the average age of our cartoon crew was in the mid-40s. I bet Facebook is a great tool for us.
HiTech, I'm happy to small talk anything and everything I know about advertising on Facebook. Just let me know.
For $1,000 we can get in front of 120,000 users. Great exposure.
Boo
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Shuffler on November 21, 2019, 12:24:34 AM
He said he already wasted money on facebook.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: TequilaChaser on November 21, 2019, 12:37:41 AM
From my point of view regarding Facebook and Aces High...
I could never understand why people/players went and made an unofficial Aces High 3 group (which I think is public for the most part, please correct me if I'm wrong) which actually should have never been done...
It gets all the attention, to where everything on that Facebook group/page should have been using HiTech's official Aces High Facebook from the get go...
YMMV
TC
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Arlo on November 21, 2019, 04:00:41 PM
From my point of view regarding Facebook and Aces High...
I could never understand why people/players went and made an unofficial Aces High 3 group (which I think is public for the most part, please correct me if I'm wrong) which actually should have never been done...
It gets all the attention, to where everything on that Facebook group/page should have been using HiTech's official Aces High Facebook from the get go...
YMMV
TC
The unofficial FB page is where all the PNGers go to squeak about this forum and the game. Yaknow, the players/former players that couldn't even behave within the AHBB norms (and that actually kinda says a lot). Most of them probably don't know Skuzzy retired (not that that would earn them grace).
I'd love to see more activity on the official AHFB but, being realistic, Hitech and co. works a slow and steady process with a skeleton crew so we'll never see 'new plane/vehicle/ship of the month' (or year) and that's really what people would go to it to see. Of course, if the event crew went there more often to post about the various events, including post-op debriefings (equivalent activity to this forum) then it might inspire more activity from not only active players but curious FB browsers.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Max on November 21, 2019, 04:12:47 PM
HTC actually hired a social media coordinator about 8 +/- years ago. Her name was HOP. Upon seeing her for the first time I was smitten. Please, Please, please............ bring back HOP :aok
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Arlo on November 21, 2019, 04:19:45 PM
HTC actually hired a social media coordinator about 8 +/- years ago. Her name was HOP. Upon seeing her for the first time I was smitten. Please, Please, please............ bring back HOP :aok
Easter maybe?
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Lusche on November 21, 2019, 04:56:25 PM
For $1,000 we can get in front of 120,000 users. Great exposure.
The main problem isn't reaching people. It's making them subscribe, so that the cost is being recovered.
When AH launched on steam, there were tens of thousands of downloads. Many of them because it was recommened to them because of them playing 'similar' games. Almost nobody subscribed. Even the best advertising doesn't help much if the product doesn't appeal to the customer. AH, at least in it's current form, is not the game the world just has been waiting for and does not know it already exists.
(Now waiting for the "steamers are just gamers, we don't want that ilk", "damn millenials/youth of today/instant gratification crowd" comments :devil)
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Slate on November 21, 2019, 05:29:32 PM
Just curious, Does anyone know did WOP get much traction as it seems to be more of the quick combat for those with short attention spans? :headscratch:
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Ciaphas on November 21, 2019, 05:34:13 PM
Just curious, Does anyone know did WOP get much traction as it seems to be more of the quick combat for those with short attention spans? :headscratch:
WoWP is a different game all together.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 21, 2019, 05:42:24 PM
The main problem isn't reaching people. It's making them subscribe, so that the cost is being recovered.
When AH launched on steam, there were tens of thousands of downloads. Many of them because it was recommened to them because of them playing 'similar' games. Almost nobody subscribed. Even the best advertising doesn't help much if the product doesn't appeal to the customer. AH, at least in it's current form, is not the game the world just has been waiting for and does not know it already exists.
(Now waiting for the "steamers are just gamers, we don't want that ilk", "damn millenials/youth of today/instant gratification crowd" comments :devil)
You are largely correct.
I'd like to expand on what you said, but it's not worth the grief, no one would listen, and it wouldn't make any difference. :D
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: TequilaChaser on November 21, 2019, 07:21:00 PM
Just curious, Does anyone know did WOP get much traction as it seems to be more of the quick combat for those with short attention spans? :headscratch:
FYI: WOP = World of Planes was the original name of the re-branding "War Thunder" and while it was still called WOP, it was in direct competition with WOWP....they renamed WOP to War Thunder, a short time after the open to the public beta then going live...iirc...... I was there and selected as 1 of the 1st 10 closed alpha testers not including the WOP staff (game builders).....
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 21, 2019, 07:26:22 PM
FYI: WOP = World of Planes was the original name of the re-branding "War Thunder" and while it was still called WOP, it was in direct competition with WOWP....they renamed WOP to War Thunder, a short time after the open to the public beta then going live...iirc...... I was there and selected as 1 of the 1st 10 closed alpha testers not including the WOP staff (game builders).....
I suspect he meant War Online: Pacific.
:salute
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Ciaphas on November 21, 2019, 07:30:11 PM
no, I meant WOWP, I thought he just forgot about the "W" as I had forgotten about WOP.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: TequilaChaser on November 21, 2019, 07:35:12 PM
With the reply of WOWP (World of War Planes) verses WOP (World of Planes, later re-branded "War Thunder")....never allowed me to even consider WO:P (WarOnline.com/Pacific)... Haha
Good catch
~Salute~
TC
Edit: Rgr Ciaphas...
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: BAD1051 on November 22, 2019, 07:29:37 PM
The way i found out about Aces High was a tv commercial on the History channel. The commercial pretty much had me hooked, right from the git go. I know tv commercials are expensive, but a well done one could be priceless.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Slate on November 22, 2019, 11:11:11 PM
The way i found out about Aces High was a tv commercial on the History channel. The commercial pretty much had me hooked, right from the git go. I know tv commercials are expensive, but a well done one could be priceless.
Ditto me too, thinking back my computer was pretty primitive lol
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: guncrasher on November 22, 2019, 11:33:44 PM
The way i found out about Aces High was a tv commercial on the History channel. The commercial pretty much had me hooked, right from the git go. I know tv commercials are expensive, but a well done one could be priceless.
I saw that commercial 15 or so years ago. but if memory serves me right I also saw the same commercial maybe 5 years ago?
by the way I only came here due to squadies from AW.
semp
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Shuffler on November 23, 2019, 06:42:18 AM
I never saw the commercial. I came over from FA word of mouth from friends.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: captain1ma on November 23, 2019, 09:06:41 AM
with regards to facebook, all you can do is keep announcing the events and activities and see if people get interested. in my opinion that's about as good as it gets. maybe have people post good films, screen shots and homemade aces high adverts on there too? just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Ciaphas on November 23, 2019, 09:15:46 AM
with regards to facebook, all you can do is keep announcing the events and activities and see if people get interested. in my opinion that's about as good as it gets. maybe have people post good films, screen shots and homemade aces high adverts on there too? just my 2 cents.
The more active the page the more visibility it has. For a game like this, I would say that daily posting is needed. All of the legacy images and videos (AH2) need to go. Regular updates from the Dev, CM, Axis vs Ally and Skinning teams need to be regular. The community at large needs to be involved with posting player content aspect. FB never has been and never will be a fire and forget platform.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on November 24, 2019, 10:28:36 AM
I don't know about Facebook. However I was recently perusing some reviews and the most common complaints I've seen against AH are:
1) Poor Steam performance. Even within the past few months there seems to be a large number of people having problems getting the game to run properly under Steam, whether performance-wise or just plain not working at all. Given that Steam is now a cornerstone for gaming content delivery for many PC players, I can see this as a significant problem for growing the player base.
2) The subscription. The complaint I see that's turning people off isn't that there's a subscription in of itself — many are more than willing to pay one — the problem is the cost vs. other subscription-based MMOs. With Aces High being twice or more the cost of other subscription-based online games this is seems to be a very common reason for players to pass it up in favor of F2P like War Thunder (even in spite of WT's Pay-To-Win aspects). ESPECIALLY when combined with the steep learning curve, as it's not uncommon to spend your full two week trial playing every day yet STILL struggle to be in any way effective. Some people simply don't play enough to justify the cost (this, unfortunately, is the reason that I've let my subscription lapse; I simply have had far too many things calling for my attention to have time to jump online for a couple hours every night).
3) Dated visuals. While the most recent models like the Wildcat (still wish we got a proper -3, tho) are without a doubt stunning, it only makes the older ones still in the game stand out more. Even aircraft that have already received updates like the P-51 and Ki-84 are looking long in the tooth. The simple reality is that other than the Retro Gaming niche, shiny top-end graphics are a major draw, especially for flight simulators.
1 and 2 are probably the easiest to find solutions for. 3 is a bit more problematic, as any major update to the graphics engine not only takes time, but risks putting the requirements beyond what some players may be able to afford.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: bustr on November 26, 2019, 10:18:52 PM
Has anyone looked at squeakute? I've noticed they allow gun reviews and some pretty off the wall things from all spectrum's of American life. I also see films from FPS games there. It's one of the places deplatformed conservative Youtubers went to after the recent Youtube purges of conservative content with the aftermath of the 2016 election. If you are trying to reach all the possible 40ish 50ish who might like the older demographic we are dominated by to play a combat SIMM with. They may be looking at videos there and not at Youtube. If Youtube was really going to work with the huge number of player videos from AH already there, we would have new people in here already. Who does this game really appeal to?
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: bustr on November 27, 2019, 02:36:21 PM
The auto naughty word thingy didn't like the name of the Social Media film posting site I used. Changed it to squeakute.
It's name it "bit chute" at www.bit chute.com. The auto nasty word moderater sees the string of words in the name as meaning a mean woman. You will have to close the space between t and c to get the name correct for the URL.
You can see how the auto word parser sees bit chute if you close the space.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: guncrasher on November 28, 2019, 12:11:02 AM
you guys ever saw snakes on a plane? when I dont remember who takes over the pilot position and they asked him if he ever flew a plane before, he said no, but I do play aces high alot. or something similar. it just came to mind now
semp
edit: my bad, it's fighter aces, just found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qwcWKX3YLw
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Shuffler on November 28, 2019, 06:44:53 AM
you guys ever saw snakes on a plane? when I dont remember who takes over the pilot position and they asked him if he ever flew a plane before, he said no, but I do play aces high alot. or something similar. it just came to mind now
semp
edit: my bad, it's fighter aces, just found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qwcWKX3YLw
Never saw that movie but hilarious.
Here is one for you... I did not know until recently, that the comedy Airplane was based on an old 1957 suspense movie called Zero Hour. Many lines taken word for word.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Arlo on November 28, 2019, 09:42:09 AM
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Nefarious on November 28, 2019, 10:16:13 AM
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on November 29, 2019, 12:23:53 AM
So, building on a post I made earlier, I just spent a couple days on War Thunder. These are my observations:
PROS
It goes without saying, the game is GORGEOUS. Imagine to start with if all the aircraft in Aces High were remodeled to the standards of the Wildcats. However it goes beyond simply the meshes. The material system is considerably more advanced, and the terrain, weather, and environment modeling is visually superior to the Aces High graphics engine. The biggest surprise to me is that it doesn't come at a steep price for performance, even in VR. At 4K resolution and with high detail levels I was getting no loss of frame rate, even when the action was busy or there was a lot of terrain clutter in view. By contrast, Aces High has always had problems, particularly around the cities, but anywhere large amounts of ground objects were visible.
The game strikes a good balance between complexity and ease of access. One feature that I've often seen asked for in Aces High was complex engine management. War Thunder has it, and it's implemented in much the same way as the stall limiter and engine governor in Aces High: Automatic controls are enabled for players who can't or don't want to handle it, but more experienced players can shut it off and control engine performance manually. Much as with the stall limiter and engine governor, it gives players who opt to use the higher difficulty settings more control they can use to maximize their aircraft's performance at the cost of more to control (IE, maybe you risk redlining your engine for an extra 1-3 mph with a higher prop pitch and shutting your cowl flaps).
Additionally to the above, the damage model is much more robust. While Aces High uses an "All or Nothing" damage system, (with the exception of fuel, oil, and pilot wounds, which can vary in severity) where either your plane's surfaces are present or they're not, in War Thunder damage degrades components. It's entirely possibly to have your wing shot up...and then lose it because the damaged wing fails under G loads.
SOME of the upgrades I actually like in concept, particularly being able to tweak your ammunition belt with different loadouts (IE, the F4U-1A can load a belt of API-API-API-Tracer-Incendiary). This is something the Perked Ordinance system that had been discussed for Aces High could make a lot of use of (TBH, I've been gone so long I can't recall if it was ever actually implemented). Additionally, War Thunder offers a lot more variety for airplane subvariants (again, using the Corsair, there's a "Marine" F4U-1A option based on the lighter, denavalized FG-1A, with corresponding changes in performance) to increase the number of aircraft, which is something else that could be worked with the perk system (imagine being able to spend 5 or so perks to drop 1500lbs off an F4U-1A by removing the naval gear).
It's free. While you can use real cash to some extent, TBH it's not worth it (supposedly there's a way you can buy aircraft rather than have to research them, but I've yet to figure out how to actually do that, beyond certain premium packs which may not have aircraft you want).
CONS
The game model all around is War Thunder's single biggest problem. There's no persistent arena, and some play modes require grinding to even access (specifically, by unlocking particular aircraft tiers). This pretty much limits the game to CoD-style death matches, which limits the usefulness of bombers and attack craft since matches are ultimately decided by shooting down all of your opponent's aircraft, so may as well take a fighter, anyway. It also means waiting in queue, sometimes for as long as 5 minutes, while waiting for a match in which you might only get one or two minutes in the air. And if there's no respawn for that match, well...sorry. I find the persistent arena offers far more and better opportunities to learn and develop, since if you get shot down you can jump right back in again.
While there's training modes that let you putter around, there's no proper practice area (whether shooting drones offline, or the Training Arena available in Aces High). There is some solo mission play, but this appears to be rather clunky to use.
Additionally, the game is far too focused on grinding. You grind to unlock aircraft. You grind to unlock modifications. You grind to improve your pilot. You grind to gain access to alternate play modes THROUGH unlocking aircraft. Have a favorite plane? Well, strap yourself in for a couple hours to DAYS of grinding until you've unlocked the 10 other planes you have to unlock (AND purchase with in-game currency) FIRST before you can fly the plane you want. It's not that Aces High doesn't have that through the perk system, but the difference is that this is reserved for only a very few aircraft, many of which have a free variant (IE the F4U-1/A/D vs. the F4U-1C and 4).
Also, you can't NOT research an aircraft. The game literally forces you to select a new plane to research whenever you've completed the current one, even if you'd rather devote all your Research Points to upgrades.
The upgrades also come across as a fake way of increasing content by forcing players to unlock the actual written specs of the aircraft (IE, the F4U-1A was rated at 420mph at altitude, but you need to purchase something like 5 different upgrades to GET it).
The actual aircraft and damage modeling, and flight engine, is often suspect at times. Once again using the Corsairs as an example, the game only models three four flap positions (up, and three lowered positions) while also giving it a fully manual mixture control under manual engine settings (the Corsair only had four mixture settings: Idle/Cutoff, Auto Lean, Auto Rich, and Emergency Rich). I've also noticed strange behavior such as aircraft icons simply disappearing for no apparent reason. The sensation of flight also seems odd. I often feel like aircraft have no actual weight to them, with it being very easy to bounce them around.
This may seem like a minor thing, but there's apparently NO TEAM VOICE CHAT. I know, some of you will claim this is a bonus, but it makes properly coordinating incredibly difficult. For example, the other night I was trying to clear a friendly, but every time I tried to get guns on target my shot was cheated because the guy I was helping kept pulling the bandit in directions that denied me an angle. With voice chat, I could have asked him to ease up, or pull the bad guy in a direction that would have actually gotten me a shot.
It's been crashing for me. A LOT. Like almost every time I try to go to the Research menu after a flight, back to the desktop I go.
It's hard to really get a judge of the community, but I've found there's far more of a "Every Man For Himself" mentality in War Thunder. Maybe the lack of easy voice communication contributes to that, but there seems to be very little coordination.
The bottom line is, when it comes to actual GAMEPLAY, Aces High is the vastly superior title. It offers far more variety for game modes, and you don't even have to work to get them. The persistent arena is much more conducive to getting MEANINGFUL stick time, and players of a favorite aircraft don't have to jump through hoops to get them. Additionally, the base flight model is also superior, and gives a better feel of actual flight.
War Thunder does have its positive features, but these are mainly cosmetic or ancillary (although you can argue that the more robust damage model and availability of complex engine management are features it's WELL past time Aces High added). However the cosmetic advantage for War Thunder is going to be a significant one; players are often drawn to graphics first. And while I object to most of their business structure, there's no denying that people are going to gravitate to a free game over one with a steep monthly subscription.
Honestly, I DON'T have much desire to continue playing War Thunder. It's pretty, but the limited gameplay options are just to frustrating. However I think there's a good bit that Aces High could learn. To make some suggestions about the future of the game based on my observations of its main competitor:
1) I think HTC should bite the bullet and start work on Aces High IV as a complete ground-up rebuild. They've done great things upgrading Aces High II to Aces High III, but even those improvements aren't covering up how old the game is any longer. Most of the audience these days is looking for higher-fidelity graphics, and if that means giving up on making the game playable on lower-tier hardware, that may be the direction they need to go to attract a modern audience. However don't release it piecemeal, with one new aircraft appearing every few months (or longer). Have everything (or at least a substantial number of key aircraft) prepared and ready to release on launch date.
2) Consider adding more robust damage and systems modeling. The latter can be implemented in a manner similar to the Stall Limiter and Engine Governor in that players who don't want manual engine operation can leave it on automatic, but may not get the full level of performance that manual control would offer. The former would contribute to the fidelity of the flight modeling.
3) Reconsider the pricing model. I'm not saying it needs to go free to play, but to perhaps consider reducing the subscription to being competitive with other subscription-based MMO games, or perhaps move to a "buy the game up front, play it for free" model.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Shuffler on November 29, 2019, 06:20:55 AM
Interesting read. I can see where third world countries might consider 15 bucks a month steep.... but really. LOL
There is nothing free. The term is convenience.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on November 29, 2019, 07:52:13 AM
Interesting read. I can see where third world countries might consider 15 bucks a month steep.... but really. LOL
There is nothing free. The term is convenience.
As I noted in my previous post, the pricing model is the single biggest complaint I see in reviews of AH (right ahead of the dated graphics engine). Aces High's subscription may not seem like much to YOU, but is still substantially higher than any other single-game subscription, (hell, it's more than some PLATFORM subscriptions, IE PSN) and when you consider just how many other subscription services people pay for many people DO find that $15 to be $15 too many. That's the boat I'm currently in; I simply have too many other financial demands, and too little time to actually PLAY, to justify it.
No, I'm NOT saying "Oh just make it free," but the current financial model is going to continue to be a barrier to expanding the play base vs. War Thunder or even DCS. Most of the complaints weren't complaining about there BEING a subscription, but of how MUCH, combined with the steep learning curve meaning it takes longer than the 2 week trial for most players to actually start being able to achieve real success.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Shuffler on November 29, 2019, 09:15:09 AM
I believe those same folks that complain about 15 a MONTH for a game are probably those that complain they don't make 15 an HOUR flipping burgers to support a family.
They should try working for free.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: The Fugitive on November 29, 2019, 09:36:50 AM
While I think a complete rebuild of the game would be awesome it will never happen the way HTC is structured now. HTC likes to maintain a small group and keep coading in-house. Unfortunately a rebuild will take years that way and I just dont think the game will survive that long.
Pricing, the world changes and those that dont change with it just fall behind. Years ago a $75 a month cable bill was the norm. Now adays most people no longer use cable and instead pay $6-$8 a month per service, Netflix, ESPN, and so on to get the viewing they want and so Cable companies are hurting. The same goes for the gaming industry. These days games are free with grinding or pay per upgrade type models. This is what todays players are use to, whether it is a good way to go or not it is the reality of todays games. I'd love to see HTC have a number of subscription rates.
Free- allows access to all arenas with a limited plane set (except scenarios and special events, you get to fly what ever is in the scenario) $5 a month- allows access to all arenas with a limited plane set but 20% more than the "free" group. $10 a month- allows access to all arenas with a limited plane set but 40% more than the "free" group. $15 a month- everything that we have now.
Any new content added (plane, tanks, or boats) are added only to the top tier group. As a bonus month HTC could add a top tier plane to the lower tiers to increase interest in moving up to a higher tier.
A change like this would bring the game subscription style into more of an alignment with todays standards, giving the player options as to how much they are willing to spend. It may give the game enough life to last long enough for HTC to get that rebuild done in the background. I still doubt it will happen unless HTC opens up it office a bit more and brings in a number of programmers. The group is just too small to add on to the game. It is just big enough to keep it running. They haven't added a new plane in years and they still have a couple of skins that haven't been brought up to the AH3 standard yet
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on November 29, 2019, 09:55:07 AM
While I think a complete rebuild of the game would be awesome it will never happen the way HTC is structured now. HTC likes to maintain a small group and keep coading in-house. Unfortunately a rebuild will take years that way and I just dont think the game will survive that long.
Pricing, the world changes and those that dont change with it just fall behind. Years ago a $75 a month cable bill was the norm. Now adays most people no longer use cable and instead pay $6-$8 a month per service, Netflix, ESPN, and so on to get the viewing they want and so Cable companies are hurting. The same goes for the gaming industry. These days games are free with grinding or pay per upgrade type models. This is what todays players are use to, whether it is a good way to go or not it is the reality of todays games. I'd love to see HTC have a number of subscription rates.
Free- allows access to all arenas with a limited plane set (except scenarios and special events, you get to fly what ever is in the scenario) $5 a month- allows access to all arenas with a limited plane set but 20% more than the "free" group. $10 a month- allows access to all arenas with a limited plane set but 40% more than the "free" group. $15 a month- everything that we have now.
Any new content added (plane, tanks, or boats) are added only to the top tier group. As a bonus month HTC could add a top tier plane to the lower tiers to increase interest in moving up to a higher tier.
A change like this would bring the game subscription style into more of an alignment with todays standards, giving the player options as to how much they are willing to spend. It may give the game enough life to last long enough for HTC to get that rebuild done in the background. I still doubt it will happen unless HTC opens up it office a bit more and brings in a number of programmers. The group is just too small to add on to the game. It is just big enough to keep it running. They haven't added a new plane in years and they still have a couple of skins that haven't been brought up to the AH3 standard yet
I disagree with this model as I don't think it's going to satisfactorily address the negative response to the existing subscription model. If we've learned anything from EA's antics and the controversy over Star Citizen, gamers are becoming increasingly wary when it comes to cash-gated content, and quicker to respond with backlash. And these price points STILL keep full content at a rate well above any other single subscription game currently out there (and as I already noted, PlayStation's ENTIRE online service!). MAYBE if we were looking at fidelity on the level of the upcoming FS2020, and/or content that included every single WWII airplane and all of its variants (so bring on the TBD-1, F2A-3, F6F-5N, etc. etc.) that even flew a single mission of combat — and these are the sorts of things beyond game play that would draw people to a subscription. "War Thunder is free!" "But War Thunder doesn't have 500 aircraft and graphics so high def it's realer than real — people might be willing to pay a premium, but I don't think so with the game in its current state.
And while HTC may prefer that production method, IMO if they wish to continue to compete, AND survive, I don't think they can afford to cling to it much longer. Outside of small indie productions we're increasingly past the days of small in-house teams.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on November 29, 2019, 01:48:31 PM
Also, where do you draw the line on which aircraft are in which group? Put all the popular aircraft (La-7, P-51D, etc.) in the Free tier and no one will pay for the others. Put all those aircraft behind a pay wall and not only are you less likely to attract players (especially if the full tier costs no less than it does now, which is part of the problem in the first place) but NOW you'd be introducing the same sort of "Pay to Win" conflict that's leading to much of the backlash against companies like EA in the first place.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: The Fugitive on November 29, 2019, 02:10:00 PM
Also, where do you draw the line on which aircraft are in which group? Put all the popular aircraft (La-7, P-51D, etc.) in the Free tier and no one will pay for the others. Put all those aircraft behind a pay wall and not only are you less likely to attract players (especially if the full tier costs no less than it does now, which is part of the problem in the first place) but NOW you'd be introducing the same sort of "Pay to Win" conflict that's leading to much of the backlash against companies like EA in the first place.
Where does HTC draw the line with ENY? They figured out a pattern for that, this Im sure would be easier. P51 as a freebi? No way, but the P40 is almost as well know with that "sharks mouth" give that one and a couple other mid/early war planes. Would they be at a disadvantage? Some players wouldnt think so because thats the planes they fly now. If a new player thinks they are a disadvantage, its an easy fix, just $5, $10, or $15 a month and you get the better rides and all the new stuff that comes down the line.
Ok, so you said that you couldnt afford the game right now. If they had the F4u-1, or even the 1D as a second tier plane for the $5 a month it wouldnt push that little bit to scrape together a buck and a quarter a week to play? I think it would.
I dont play many other games as this is the one I like. Thru thick and thin this has always been my go to game since EA killed AW. I have been here for 16+ years and will leave only went HTC pulls the plug. If it takes a tiered setup to get more players in, who care about the back lash. Something needs to be done to get the numbers up. A huge upgrade in either graphics or damage model just isnt in the picture for such a small company. Setting up a tiered payment system Ill bet is something they could do in a couple of weeks. They need to find a way to keep players here while they get over the steep learning curve. Having a number of "free" planes to play in the MA takes the pressure off. It gives the new player a chance to get going, help out during raids or defending and understand the score of game play that is available all things they never get to if they dont stick around for a week or two.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Wiley on November 29, 2019, 02:11:34 PM
I think peoples' perceptions of a sub these days is they want to see ongoing development. Heck, they expect it in most games period, regardless of whether there's a sub or not, but if there's a sub the attitude seems to be more prevalent. Regardless of what's been going on in the background, they don't see a new plane for months, or a new map, or anything that they perceive as "new" in the game. And most people consider the MA "the game". If you logged in last in mid 2018 and then logged in today, I checked the patch notes because I couldn't think of anything and if you're not a VR user, the only new thing to play with is the A-20 and animated pilots in some planes.
They've been taught to expect new things in games that have a sub, and when they don't see that at the pace they expect, they don't think there's value there. Right or wrong, that's how the market strikes me.
There are people who don't think like that, but I think most of them are already here.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: The Fugitive on November 29, 2019, 02:14:13 PM
I think peoples' perceptions of a sub these days is they want to see ongoing development. Heck, they expect it in most games period, regardless of whether there's a sub or not, but if there's a sub the attitude seems to be more prevalent. Regardless of what's been going on in the background, they don't see a new plane for months, or a new map, or anything that they perceive as "new" in the game. And most people consider the MA "the game". If you logged in last in mid 2018 and then logged in today, I checked the patch notes because I couldn't think of anything and if you're not a VR user, the only new thing to play with is the A-20 and animated pilots in some planes.
They've been taught to expect new things in games that have a sub, and when they don't see that at the pace they expect, they don't think there's value there. Right or wrong, that's how the market strikes me.
There are people who don't think like that, but I think most of them are already here.
Wiley.
Agreed, and we use to have that. It was almost every 3 months we would get a new plane or tanks. I created excitement especially when the screen shots started popping up. Now, its all they can do to keep things running.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on November 29, 2019, 02:43:07 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't see how you could even BEGIN to compare ENY to putting up a paywall for aircraft. And maybe you missed my the part where I pointed out gated access to aircraft is one of the top annoyances with the competition in the first place. Worst than that, now you're creating a "Pay to Win" system. The Perk/ENY system ALREADY in the game has historically led to rants on the boards as it is. Imagine how much worse it will get if instead of Perks, now "premium" aircraft are gated behind wads of cash.
Any company that doesn't even CONSIDER backlash before making its decisions frankly deserves to go out of business, because it demonstrates either total apathy or complete cluelessness towards their customers.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 29, 2019, 03:19:09 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't see how you could even BEGIN to compare ENY to putting up a paywall for aircraft. And maybe you missed my the part where I pointed out gated access to aircraft is one of the top annoyances with the competition in the first place. Worst than that, now you're creating a "Pay to Win" system.
People will complain no matter what you do. People who are paying no money to fly and complain can safely be ignored. No one is holding a gun to their head. Now, you do have to be careful to not let people who pay get beaten by people who payed more. That would be truly pay-to-win.
I think it is a no-brainer to open up a set of hangar-queen aircraft to allow free-to-play since no one ever flys those anyway.
1. It would add more diversity to the arena so it's not always the same 4 planes every day. 2. It would add more targets to the arena so those that are paying actually feel like they are getting a multi-player game for their money. 3. It provides contact with potential customers longer than a ridiculously short two-week trial. Every day you maintain contact is another day you might convince them to just sign up. 4. You could allow the free players to earn perks to occasionally earn a 1 life ride in a premium plane to see what they are missing. 5. It would bring in more eye-balls and spread the word. Cheapest advertising HTC could buy.
It may not make a huge difference, but the down-side is minimal. Let them fly P-40s. Let Them fly goons and ride jeeps etc. Sometimes you have to give out some line before reeling in.
Now wait for the cohort of self-appointed Aces High Political Commissars to come in and attack this idea because it is not the way we've done things since 1999. Sorry. It is not 1999 anymore. The old approaches are not going to keep HTC solvent. Every year less players. In 2004 it was like 600 players a night. last Oct it was averaging ~180 per night. What are we seeing now? 120? New things need to be tried.
Or not.
:salute, CptTrips
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Wiley on November 29, 2019, 03:25:59 PM
People will complain no matter what you do. People who are paying no money to fly and complain can safely be ignored. No one is holding a gun to their head. Now, you do have to be careful to not let people who pay get beaten by people who payed more. That would be truly pay-to-win.
I think it is a no-brainer to open up a set of hangar-queen aircraft to allow free-to-play since no one ever flys those anyway.
1. It would add more diversity to the arena so it's not always the same 4 planes every day. 2. It would add more targets to the arena so those that are paying actually feel like they are getting a multi-player game for their money. 3. It provides contact with potential customers longer than a ridiculously short two-week trial. Every day you maintain contact is another day you might convince them to just sign up. 4. You could allow the free players to earn perks to occasionally earn a 1 life ride in a premium play to see what they are missing. 5. It would bring in more eye-balls and spread the word. Cheapest advertising HTC could buy.
It may not make a huge difference, but the down-side is minimal. Let them fly P-40s. Let Them fly goons and ride jeeps etc. Sometimes you have to give out some line before reeling in.
Now wait for the cohort of self-appointed Aces High Political Commissars to come in and attack this idea because it is not the way we've done things since 1999. Sorry. It is not 1999 anymore. The old approaches are not going to keep HTC solvent. Every year less players. In 2004 it was like 600 players a night. last Oct it was averaging ~180 per night. What are we seeing now? 120? New things need to be tried.
Or not.
:salute, CptTrips
The downside is minimal. I also think the upside is commensurate.
Completely changing it to a format that's more popular and generating a metric buttload of "content" (skins/maps/something to work towards) so people feel there's more of a "game" than just killing folks in the arena is about the only thing that would do anything other than continue the slide IMO. Half measures just won't do it.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 29, 2019, 04:04:48 PM
The downside is minimal. I also think the upside is commensurate.
Completely changing it to a format that's more popular is about the only thing that would do anything other than continue the slide IMO. Half measures just won't do it.
I agree if you are talking about reversing the negative trend line.
I was shooting more for stabilizing the trend with maybe mild improvement while still keeping the fundamental nature of the game the same.
If I were Hitech, I would be looking to place Aces High into a low energy orbit and start focusing on applying his knowledge and experience towards another game where he would have more design freedom and not an entrenched community of old farts still living on their memories of AW pathologically hostile to change. They have Aces High, and it is pretty much the pinnacle of that genre. So leave them that to enjoy and shore it up best as possible with least amount of work and focus on a new adventure.
I mean there is WO:P. Not really the direction I would have gone. ;). But I get the feeling that is not nearly finished and he has some interesting plans up his sleeve with that one so I am withholding judgement.
I'd love to see him consider a offline single-player sim at some point. I think the main reason everyone has heard of IL2 and no one has heard of Aces High is because IL2 is a stand-alone sim. There is a several orders of magnitude difference between the number of people out there who enjoy plinking around in an offline sim vs wanting to compete player-vs-player online. IL2 has a slight advantage on graphics but the FM seem similar to me. I think a lot of the advantage in graphics is because AH is using a generic modular component terrain instead of hand shaping a specific world. HTC couldn't compete in the AAA space, but might could carve out a small value-priced narrow niche of under-served subjects. IL2 started with the Sturmovik, maybe HTC creates a JU-87 study sim. :cool: STUKA PILOT! It could include a 1 month free in Aces High as a bonus.
Or maybe they just add another obscure French or Italian fighter to the AH hangar and that will turn everything around. Or just throw some money at advertising. ;)
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Wiley on November 29, 2019, 04:09:13 PM
I agree if you are talking about reversing the negative trend line.
I was shooting more for stabilizing the trend with maybe mild improvement while still keeping the fundamental nature of the game the same.
If I were Hitech, I would be looking to place Aces High into a low energy orbit and start focusing on applying his knowledge and experience towards another game where he would have more design freedom and not a entrenched community of old farts still living on their memories of AW pathologically hostile to change. They have Aces High, and it is pretty much the pinnacle of that genre. So leave them that to enjoy and shore it up best as possible with least amount of work and focus on a new adventure.
I mean there is WO:P. Not really the direction I would have gone. ;). But I get the feeling that is not nearly finished and he has some interesting plans up his sleeve with that one so I am withholding judgement.
I'd love to see him consider a offline single-player sim at some point. I think the main reason everyone has heard of IL2 and no one has heard of Aces High is because IL2 is a stand-alone sim. There is a several orders of magnitude difference between the number of people out there who enjoy plinking around in an offline sim vs wanting to compete player-vs-player online. IL2 has a slight advantage on graphics but the FM seem similar to me. I think a lot of the advantage in graphics is because AH is using a generic modular component terrain instead of hand shaping a specific world. HTC couldn't compete in the AAA space, but might could carve out a small value-priced narrow niche of under-served subjects. IL2 started with the Sturmovik, maybe HTC creates a JU-87 study sim. :cool: STUKA PILOT! It could include a 1 month free in Aces High as a bonus.
Or maybe they just add another obscure French or Italian fighter to the AH hangar and that will turn everything around. Or just throw some money at advertising. ;)
If I were HT I'd sell the FM for retirement money so I wouldn't have to deal with all of us. But that's just me. ;)
edit: Ugh... considering what you typed there a bit more, that sounds an AWFUL lot like what WBs does. Box game every once in a while, and keep the arenas going. It hasn't worked spectacularly well for them.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 29, 2019, 04:14:05 PM
If I were HT I'd sell the FM for retirement money so I wouldn't have to deal with all of us. But that's just me. ;)
Wiley.
Im not sure where Hitech is in his life. I know when I was middle aged, with a couple of young kids I would have been happy to "retire" and spend more time with them as they grow. Once they hit their teens, then maybe Id look for something to work on just to pass the time.
Maybe it would be good for him to bring in a team so he could step back and let the team continue with the game in what ever way makes sense.
I just wish that something was done to try and bring in, and more importantly KEEP new players. This game is so deep with things to do thatit really is a shame when you see people blow it off for any reason.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Wiley on November 29, 2019, 04:34:20 PM
I just wish that something was done to try and bring in, and more importantly KEEP new players. This game is so deep with things to do thatit really is a shame when you see people blow it off for any reason.
I just don't think there's anywhere to go with the game that would make it popular that wouldn't make it into something completely different. If they make it like WT or the like, they may as well make it a dating simulator as far as I'm concerned. Just not interested.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: The Fugitive on November 29, 2019, 04:49:03 PM
I just don't think there's anywhere to go with the game that would make it popular that wouldn't make it into something completely different. If they make it like WT or the like, they may as well make it a dating simulator as far as I'm concerned. Just not interested.
Wiley.
What would you consider "like WT" to be? What would change to make it like WT?
I think the game needs all of its basics...... tanking, fighters, bombers, ships, capture elements as well as the strat elements . All of these things are what makes AH stand out above all the other games. The only thing it is lacking is players, and I guess some may say graphics. If new players could see the depth of the game play could they ignore the graphics? I know I can but I have been here for years. If new players could what would be needed to entice them to stick it out long enough to see the depth of game play available?
I think free, or a cheaper version would help along those lines. A dedicated team to push the game on social media. As well as a dedicated team to ease the pain of learning all this game has to offer. I think these are the things that could help the game.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: TheBug on November 29, 2019, 05:10:42 PM
I think maybe being thankful for what there is and going with smaller maps to accommodate.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Wiley on November 29, 2019, 05:17:21 PM
What would you consider "like WT" to be? What would change to make it like WT?
I think the game needs all of its basics...... tanking, fighters, bombers, ships, capture elements as well as the strat elements . All of these things are what makes AH stand out above all the other games. The only thing it is lacking is players, and I guess some may say graphics. If new players could see the depth of the game play could they ignore the graphics? I know I can but I have been here for years. If new players could what would be needed to entice them to stick it out long enough to see the depth of game play available?
I think free, or a cheaper version would help along those lines. A dedicated team to push the game on social media. As well as a dedicated team to ease the pain of learning all this game has to offer. I think these are the things that could help the game.
2 balanced sides with a short term goal, stuff to grind towards. That's what's popular, large ongoing arena battles like what we have simply isn't. You can make it free but it doesn't have those other skinner box elements that people look for.
Eye candy as well. Most gamers, all they see is "this thing shiny, other thing less shiny." The FM being different/better makes little to no difference to them. Planes handle differently from each other over there, that's all they care about.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 29, 2019, 05:39:51 PM
I think maybe being thankful for what there is and going with smaller maps to accommodate.
There is a certain logic to that from a players point of view, however it doesn't help Hitech much who has to pay the bills with an ever shrinking revenue stream.
If player counts were 180 last year and are 120 now, under 100 by this time next year? Under 80? Does Hitech live on air? Is he getting a government subsidy?
Maybe if people want to keep the game a narrow boutique product with narrow appeal, they should be willing to pay boutique prices. Maybe Hitech should raise it to $30 a month. :t
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Wiley on November 29, 2019, 05:50:45 PM
There is a certain logic to that from a players point of view, however it doesn't help Hitech much who has to pay the bills with an ever shrinking revenue stream.
If player counts were 180 last year and are 120 now, under 100 by this time next year? Under 80? Does Hitech live on air? Is he getting a government subsidy?
Maybe if people want to keep the game a narrow boutique product with narrow appeal, they should be willing to pay boutique prices. Maybe Hitech should raise it to $30 a month. :t
Most nights I login other than Tuesday or Friday it's between 80 and a hundred and change now.
At least some of us are just barely hanging on by the skin of our teeth. Other than events, if my squad's not on, I am finding it extremely difficult to find fun in the arena. Squad night generally works out because when we get on the Pigs are being Pigs, but any other night I log on and there's just nothing in the air. I realize you're being a bit facetious, but for the MA gameplay at the moment, I'd have to think a bit on dropping 30 on it vs 15. Likely would just for FSO. I've often said it'd be cheap at twice the price. But I wouldn't pay that for the MA.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 29, 2019, 06:12:46 PM
Most nights I login other than Tuesday or Friday it's between 80 and a hundred and change now.
At least some of us are just barely hanging on by the skin of our teeth. Other than events, if my squad's not on, I am finding it extremely difficult to find fun in the arena. Squad night generally works out because when we get on the Pigs are being Pigs, but any other night I log on and there's just nothing in the air. I realize you're being a bit facetious, but for the MA gameplay at the moment, I'd have to think a bit on dropping 30 on it vs 15. Likely would just for FSO. I've often said it'd be cheap at twice the price. But I wouldn't pay that for the MA.
Yet you don't think we are at the point it is worth risking change? Even significant change? You can't stand the Melee, but you don't want to see anything change?
What would you consider "like WT" to be? What would change to make it like WT?
I think the game needs all of its basics...... tanking, fighters, bombers, ships, capture elements as well as the strat elements . All of these things are what makes AH stand out above all the other games. The only thing it is lacking is players, and I guess some may say graphics. If new players could see the depth of the game play could they ignore the graphics? I know I can but I have been here for years. If new players could what would be needed to entice them to stick it out long enough to see the depth of game play available?
I think free, or a cheaper version would help along those lines. A dedicated team to push the game on social media. As well as a dedicated team to ease the pain of learning all this game has to offer. I think these are the things that could help the game.
Once again:
1) A new, modern graphics engine. Aces High is visibly dated, and there's only so far old engines can be pushed. Like it or not, most players DO put visuals on a high level these days. And it's not just younger generations, EVERY generation does this. The only games now that are getting away with 16-bit sprites or 90s/Aughts 3D model work are those deliberately aiming at the retro niche. However that niche is virtually non-existent when it comes to simulators. There's absolutely NO way going forward that AH is going to last for long unless a major change is made here. you can argue about it until you're blue in the face about HTC's development model, or small studios this or that. THIS IS REALITY. All aircraft need to be brought up to at least the standards of the Wildcats, and the terrain, materials, and environment systems need a thorough upgrade.
2) Enhance the damage model. Engines that degrade with damage. Pull too many Gs when your spar is full of holes and your ping pops up. Degrading flight and control surfaces. Guns can jam. Put stuff IN the plane like control lines that can be severed. Damage should not be all-or-nothing.
Which ties into...
3) Double down on the simulator aspects. This is the main thing setting AH's gameplay apart from WT. WT is an arcadey shooter with some simulator elements. Maybe AH shouldn't be a DCS-level study sim, where you have to warm your engine for 10 minutes before takeoff and manually switch on your guns, but there should be more things to manage. Bring on complex engine management (oil, radiator, and cowl flaps, mixture control, prop pitch that actually has to be set for the correct power settings etc.). Model the aircraft's unique systems (IE the 190s and their automatic propeller pitch). Implement a "Newbie Switch" where CEM can be disabled, but at a potential loss of performance.
4) Introduce more ordinance options (Tiny Tim rockets have been asked for quite frequently). Introduce more ammunition options than simply averaging your belt, and tie ammunition into the Strat system: Maybe you like to run API-API-API-API-T in your Browning M2. But oops, the ammo bunker at your field was just exploded, so it's all Ball rounds for you.
5) Add more aircraft. I'll give you several easy ones that wouldn't even require much (if anything) in the way of new meshes: FG-1/A/D (denavalized; unavailable from carriers). F4F-3 (a 4-gun F4F is NOT an F4F-4. the -3 was lighter, longer-ranged, and better performing). F6F-3. F2A-3, and B-339 and it's British and Dutch subvariants (The 239 has noticeably different handling from either, though IIRC the Dutch model was close). Here's a big one that WT doesn't (AFAIK) have: Bring on in-craft radar, and introduce proper night fighters. F4U-2 and F6F-5N (an F6F with a pair of 20mms is sure to get love) are two easy ones to add simply by remodeling a wing. The P-61 has been quite frequently asked for, but always shot down on the Wishlist because "We don't have night so why bother with it?). How many people have asked for the P-51A or A-36?
There's no need to change the core persistent arena-based game play to TOO large of an extent (I do agree with removing the third country, tho). However I'd introduce more ways to manage territory than simply "Flatten town and drop troops." And there's no need to create a "Freeloaders vs. Premiums" caste system. At all.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 29, 2019, 07:39:56 PM
Oh, a new graphics engine. Hitech! Get right on that, OK? :D
I hear you. I don't totally disagree. However, I think the engine is more capable than it looks. A lot of the issue is models not the underlying engine. And the generic component nature of a simplistic rather than trying to model a particular location. The terrain mesh resolution is a little course. It be nice to have adaptive mesh system where certain areas of interest could have high detain and in-between areas with much lower poly count (https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0895717708001040-gr5.jpg)
The real problem is that ideally Hitech wouldn't be in the engine business. He had to create one when he started because there weren't really and available ones then. Game companies now have off the shelf they can leverage built by teams 100 graphic engineers that can afford to concentrate on engine design day and day, year after year exclusively. It is impossible for Hitech to keep up with that rolling his own. It's a massive amount of work and no one can be an expert in everything.
Of course it is easier for a new company starting an new product to do that. Very hard for an existing company with 18 years of legacy code to switch over.
The other problem with a proprietary engine is that is makes it almost impossible to bring in hired-guns temporarily to help with a development push for 6-12 months. You can't just drop in an Unreal or Unity Ninja and get them up to speed quickly on your engine.
That is not a mistake on Hitech's part, just the way things worked out. It is very hard for long existing companies to swap out technologies. Newer companies often have that clean-slate advantage. Kinda like how Germany and Japan had the advantage of starting out with brand new modern factories after WWII while alot of ours were from the turn of the century.
2) Enhance the damage model. Engines that degrade with damage. Pull too many Gs when your spar is full of holes and your ping pops up. Degrading flight and control surfaces. Guns can jam. Put stuff IN the plane like control lines that can be severed. Damage should not be all-or-nothing.
That is more reasonable, but I doubt it is a huge game changer. But it is certain more realistic than an entirely new graphics engine. ;)
3) Double down on the simulator aspects. This is the main thing setting AH's gameplay apart from WT. WT is an arcadey shooter with some simulator elements. Maybe AH shouldn't be a DCS-level study sim, where you have to warm your engine for 10 minutes before takeoff and manually switch on your guns, but there should be more things to manage. Bring on complex engine management (oil, radiator, and cowl flaps, mixture control, prop pitch that actually has to be set for the correct power settings etc.). Model the aircraft's unique systems (IE the 190s and their automatic propeller pitch). Implement a "Newbie Switch" where CEM can be disabled, but at a potential loss of performance.
Sid Meier had a great quote about his design principal to make his sims fun, as opposed to a military or commercial simulator, (paraphrased) "Simulate the fun stuff and throw everything else out."
I don't want to be a flight sim accountant. That is not the "fun stuff" to me. If he wants to put it in for people who get off to that, fine. But it should confer no advantage. Diddle you cowling flaps to your hearts content.
4) Introduce more ordinance options (Tiny Tim rockets have been asked for quite frequently). Introduce more ammunition options than simply averaging your belt, and tie ammunition into the Strat system: Maybe you like to run API-API-API-API-T in your Browning M2. But oops, the ammo bunker at your field was just exploded, so it's all Ball rounds for you.
Meh. I'm not against it, but it probably ranks low on the estimated bang for the buck. (Pardon the Pun).
5) Add more aircraft. I'll give you several easy ones that wouldn't even require much (if anything) in the way of new meshes: FG-1/A/D (denavalized; unavailable from carriers). F4F-3 (a 4-gun F4F is NOT an F4F-4. the -3 was lighter, longer-ranged, and better performing). F6F-3. F2A-3, and B-339 and it's British and Dutch subvariants (The 239 has noticeably different handling from either, though IIRC the Dutch model was close). Here's a big one that WT doesn't (AFAIK) have: Bring on in-craft radar, and introduce proper night fighters. F4U-2 and F6F-5N (an F6F with a pair of 20mms is sure to get love) are two easy ones to add simply by remodeling a wing. The P-61 has been quite frequently asked for, but always shot down on the Wishlist because "We don't have night so why bother with it?). How many people have asked for the P-51A or A-36?
Meh. We have a lot of planes. Most of them are never flown already. Do you really think adding a couple more variants is going to make a material difference at this point?
However I'd introduce more ways to manage territory than simply "Flatten town and drop troops." And there's no need to create a "Freeloaders vs. Premiums" caste system. At all.
But you want to create an engine management caste system?
:cheers:
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: guncrasher on November 29, 2019, 08:18:14 PM
Think hitec should make the game free. Then sell all the hacks the people claim others use for a premium. He would more than double his income. OK jk
semp
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on November 29, 2019, 08:25:33 PM
Oh, a new graphics engine. Hitech! Get right on that, OK? :D
I hear you. I don't totally disagree. However, I think the engine is more capable than it looks. A lot of the issue is models not the underlying engine. And the generic component nature of a simplistic rather than trying to model a particular location. The terrain mesh resolution is a little course. It be nice to have adaptive mesh system where certain areas of interest could have high detain and in-between areas with much lower poly count (https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0895717708001040-gr5.jpg)
The real problem is that ideally Hitech wouldn't be in the engine business. He had to create one when he started because there weren't really and available ones then. Game companies now have off the shelf they can leverage built by teams 100 graphic engineers that can afford to concentrate on engine design day and day, year after year exclusively. It is impossible for Hitech to keep up with that rolling his own. It's a massive amount of work and no one can be an expert in everything.
Of course it is easier for a new company starting an new product to do that. Very hard for an existing company with 18 years of legacy code to switch over.
The other problem with a proprietary engine is that is makes it almost impossible to bring in hired-guns temporarily to help with a development push for 6-12 months. You can't just drop in an Unreal or Unity Ninja and get them up to speed quickly on your engine.
That is not a mistake on Hitech's part, just the way things worked out. It is very hard for long existing companies to swap out technologies. Newer companies often have that clean-slate advantage. Kinda like how Germany and Japan had the advantage of starting out with brand new modern factories after WWII while alot of ours were from the turn of the century.
That is more reasonable, but I doubt it is a huge game changer. But it is certain more realistic than an entirely new graphics engine. ;)
Sid Meier had a great quote about his design principal to make his sims fun, as opposed to a military or commercial simulator, (paraphrased) "Simulate the fun stuff and throw everything else out."
I don't want to be a flight sim accountant. That is not the "fun stuff" to me. If he wants to put it in for people who get off to that, fine. But it should confer no advantage. Diddle you cowling flaps to your hearts content.
Meh. I'm not against it, but it probably ranks low on the estimated bang for the buck. (Pardon the Pun).
Meh. We have a lot of planes. Most of them are never flown already. Do you really think adding a couple more variants is going to make a material difference at this point?
Ohhhhh, no you didn't!!!!!!! You just stepped on the third rail! :rofl
I think 3-side worked great with 300-600 players. I'll leave it at that. :bolt:
But you want to create an engine management caste system?
:cheers:
There's an awful lot of straw in this argument.
Quote
Implement a "Newbie Switch" where CEM can be disabled, but at a potential loss of performance.
We already have this with the Engine Governor, Stall Limiter, and Combat Trim. Players who make use of these DO pay a price for making use of them. It makes it easier to fly, but turning on the former two limit the ability to push the aircraft, and manual trim has its own advantages for fine tuning the aircraft's handling (Drop your flaps with CT on vs. off at a high AoA. Go on, I'll wait).
The advantages for manual engine management would be much the same. Maybe you gain a few feet per minute on your rate of climb by adjusting your propeller pitch, or pick up a few extra mph by closing up your cowl flaps. But this comes at the risk of your engine overheating and seizing.
And there's nothing that says that HTC needs to develop the graphics engine in-house. As you yourself pointed out, there's plenty of off-the-shelf engines out there, so finding one that could work with the flight and physics engine would be a legitimate alternative.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: The Fugitive on November 29, 2019, 08:40:55 PM
1) A new, modern graphics engine. Aces High is visibly dated, and there's only so far old engines can be pushed. Like it or not, most players DO put visuals on a high level these days. And it's not just younger generations, EVERY generation does this. The only games now that are getting away with 16-bit sprites or 90s/Aughts 3D model work are those deliberately aiming at the retro niche. However that niche is virtually non-existent when it comes to simulators. There's absolutely NO way going forward that AH is going to last for long unless a major change is made here. you can argue about it until you're blue in the face about HTC's development model, or small studios this or that. THIS IS REALITY. All aircraft need to be brought up to at least the standards of the Wildcats, and the terrain, materials, and environment systems need a thorough upgrade.
2) Enhance the damage model. Engines that degrade with damage. Pull too many Gs when your spar is full of holes and your ping pops up. Degrading flight and control surfaces. Guns can jam. Put stuff IN the plane like control lines that can be severed. Damage should not be all-or-nothing.
Which ties into...
3) Double down on the simulator aspects. This is the main thing setting AH's gameplay apart from WT. WT is an arcadey shooter with some simulator elements. Maybe AH shouldn't be a DCS-level study sim, where you have to warm your engine for 10 minutes before takeoff and manually switch on your guns, but there should be more things to manage. Bring on complex engine management (oil, radiator, and cowl flaps, mixture control, prop pitch that actually has to be set for the correct power settings etc.). Model the aircraft's unique systems (IE the 190s and their automatic propeller pitch). Implement a "Newbie Switch" where CEM can be disabled, but at a potential loss of performance.
4) Introduce more ordinance options (Tiny Tim rockets have been asked for quite frequently). Introduce more ammunition options than simply averaging your belt, and tie ammunition into the Strat system: Maybe you like to run API-API-API-API-T in your Browning M2. But oops, the ammo bunker at your field was just exploded, so it's all Ball rounds for you.
5) Add more aircraft. I'll give you several easy ones that wouldn't even require much (if anything) in the way of new meshes: FG-1/A/D (denavalized; unavailable from carriers). F4F-3 (a 4-gun F4F is NOT an F4F-4. the -3 was lighter, longer-ranged, and better performing). F6F-3. F2A-3, and B-339 and it's British and Dutch subvariants (The 239 has noticeably different handling from either, though IIRC the Dutch model was close). Here's a big one that WT doesn't (AFAIK) have: Bring on in-craft radar, and introduce proper night fighters. F4U-2 and F6F-5N (an F6F with a pair of 20mms is sure to get love) are two easy ones to add simply by remodeling a wing. The P-61 has been quite frequently asked for, but always shot down on the Wishlist because "We don't have night so why bother with it?). How many people have asked for the P-51A or A-36?
There's no need to change the core persistent arena-based game play to TOO large of an extent (I do agree with removing the third country, tho). However I'd introduce more ways to manage territory than simply "Flatten town and drop troops." And there's no need to create a "Freeloaders vs. Premiums" caste system. At all.
I agree with everything CptTrips said, for HTC to doe this with just Hitech as the caoder, and one art guy it would take YEARS!
Buying new graphic is an option, first there is the money to buy a new engine. Then you have to integrate it to the coad they have now, again with one guy writing the coad it will still take YEARS.
And while all of this would be "cool" it really isnt going to bring in new players..... well "pretty" graphics may help, but again we wont see any of this any time soon.
I dont want to see a 2 sided war, I dont want to see "round base play", I dont want to see "air spawns", I dont want to see "grinding" added to the game. I want the game the way it is with all the depth and options it has, but Id like to see something done to help retain players. I think the "free" play option with a limited plane set could help bring up the numbers.
I also wish there was a way for the "steam" client could work better with the HTC client. If steam displayed the numbers IN the arena instead of the numbers of players playing THROUGH steam in the arena it could help get more players in too. Steam players look and see 12 players playing and say "Forget that, what else can I play" and they are gone.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Wiley on November 29, 2019, 08:44:44 PM
Yet you don't think we are at the point it is worth risking change? Even significant change? You can't stand the Melee, but you don't want to see anything change?
Most of this thread I'm not talking about what I want, it's what I perceive the state of things is. My honest opinion is the vast majority of people do not want the kind of gameplay that is this game's strength. Yet, the gameplay that is here when there are numbers is exactly what I enjoy. Those two things are pretty close to mutually exclusive.
It's not popular because of what it is at its fundamental level. I am here because of what it is.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 29, 2019, 08:44:50 PM
And there's nothing that says that HTC needs to develop the graphics engine in-house. As you yourself pointed out, there's plenty of off-the-shelf engines out there, so finding one that could work with the flight and physics engine would be a legitimate alternative.
Legitimate, or feasible? I'm not sure it's feasible at this point.
I'm assuming it would be a massive amount of work and I can't imagine there are the resources to do it.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on November 29, 2019, 08:45:14 PM
I dont want to see a 2 sided war, I dont want to see "round base play", I dont want to see "air spawns", I dont want to see "grinding" added to the game. I want the game the way it is with all the depth and options it has, but Id like to see something done to help retain players.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: The Fugitive on November 29, 2019, 08:51:24 PM
What are you saying, I prefer my Mustang, but that has nothing to do with what we are discussing.
(http://66.189.10.34:8080/pics/103.jpg)
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Slate on November 29, 2019, 08:57:27 PM
Graphics?
I see silly app games coming out that look like 90's graphics but people are buying them. :x
I play WOT and the scenery is great and you can take down trees with a tank! Hint Hint. but I hate that an enemy will just disappear or appear out of nowhere. It is great for short quick gaming but can get tedious and you do feel the "Grind" as others have said. I know i get beat by some that have spent more than I. For AH I need more time or I just won't log on. It is more like a game of Risk than a game of Checkers. The biggest hurdle I see is a console that runs this game. The PC is in decline and games like War Thunder is available on many platforms that reach more players. People have asked me why do I watch Nascar, It's just cars going in a circle because that is all they See. Good strategic games have always had appeal. AH has it's strengths and one is the War not just the fight.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 29, 2019, 08:57:48 PM
Most of this thread I'm not talking about what I want, it's what I perceive the state of things is. My honest opinion is the vast majority of people do not want the kind of gameplay that is this game's strength. Yet, the gameplay that is here when there are numbers is exactly what I enjoy. Those two things are pretty close to mutually exclusive.
It's not popular because of what it is at its fundamental level. I am here because of what it is.
Wiley.
Which is why Hitech should probably put this one on auto-pilot and focus on a new project. It's a no-win situation if the current trajectory is unsustainable, but the level of change needed to alter it is unacceptable. He won't though. This was his dream game.
So yeah, you're Fked Hitech. :D
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on November 29, 2019, 09:01:55 PM
Most of this thread I'm not talking about what I want, it's what I perceive the state of things is. My honest opinion is the vast majority of people do not want the kind of gameplay that is this game's strength. Yet, the gameplay that is here when there are numbers is exactly what I enjoy. Those two things are pretty close to mutually exclusive.
It's not popular because of what it is at its fundamental level. I am here because of what it is.
Wiley.
Unfortunately, it seems that not enough people want to accept that it's simply not possible for the game to continue as it is and expect new people to join over a long term. Instead they want to slap band-aids over everything. If HTC continues to cater to the Old Guard, the game is going to continue dying a slow death.
It's harsh reality time: The Old Guard is just that: The Old Guard. Either they're moving on to other pursuits, or (more sadly, but still fact) passing on (hell, how many posts have I seen on the first page of names I recognize and flew with who are gone?) HTC gains NOTHING by giving up on adapting their business to the new reality of online gaming to retain them.
What are you saying, I prefer my Mustang, but that has nothing to do with what we are discussing.
(http://66.189.10.34:8080/pics/103.jpg)
Oh for the love of... It's a TIME MACHINE. Set your Time Circuits for 2006, because that's the only way you're going to get a player base back without making a Golly-geemed change.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 29, 2019, 09:14:13 PM
Unfortunately, it seems that not enough people want to accept that it's simply not possible for the game to continue as it is and expect new people to join over a long term. Instead they want to slap band-aids over everything. If HTC continues to cater to the Old Guard, the game is going to continue dying a slow death. [...] HTC gains NOTHING by giving up on adapting their business to the new reality of online gaming to retain them.
The alternative is to try and do both.
Keep the Old Guard with the old game (leaving it the way they like it) and try and capture a new player base with new games.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Wiley on November 29, 2019, 09:16:40 PM
Unfortunately, it seems that not enough people want to accept that it's simply not possible for the game to continue as it is and expect new people to join over a long term. Instead they want to slap band-aids over everything. If HTC continues to cater to the Old Guard, the game is going to continue dying a slow death.
Sure. To make lacrosse more popular, let's take away the rackets and give them a bent stick instead. And instead of a ball, we'll use a round flat thing called a "puck". Maybe play it on ice.
Same difference. If I wanted to be playing hockey, I'd be playing hockey.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on November 29, 2019, 09:19:07 PM
Keep the Old Guard with the old game (leaving it the way they like it) and try and capture a new player base with new games.
This will be impractical simply because of the financial demands of maintaining the servers. The Old Guard is going to continue shrinking until it reaches the point it just makes more financial sense to simply pull the plug.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 29, 2019, 09:19:47 PM
This will be impractical simply because of the financial demands of maintaining the servers. The Old Guard is going to continue shrinking until it reaches the point it just makes more financial sense to simply pull the plug.
Pffft.
Servers are relatively cheap and just sit in his closet and purr all day.
Development hours are expensive.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: The Fugitive on November 29, 2019, 09:26:32 PM
Unfortunately, it seems that not enough people want to accept that it's simply not possible for the game to continue as it is and expect new people to join over a long term. Instead they want to slap band-aids over everything. If HTC continues to cater to the Old Guard, the game is going to continue dying a slow death.
It's harsh reality time: The Old Guard is just that: The Old Guard. Either they're moving on to other pursuits, or (more sadly, but still fact) passing on (hell, how many posts have I seen on the first page of names I recognize and flew with who are gone?) HTC gains NOTHING by giving up on adapting their business to the new reality of online gaming to retain them.
Oh for the love of.. It's a TIME MACHINE. Set your Time Circuits for 2006, because that's the only way you're going to get a player base back without making a Golly-geemed change.
So basically what your really saying is for Hitech to scrap this game and just start over with something you "think" will work better.... well at least for you it will.
I dont believe that is really an option. I think the game can still be saved, and not just for the "old guard". The game just needs a better opening. Right now it is too discouraging for the "I want it now" generation.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on November 29, 2019, 09:37:38 PM
Servers are relatively cheap and just sit in his closet and purr all day.
Development hours are expensive.
I hope you're being facetious. I work in IT and nothing could be further from the truth. It's more than just the direct operating costs of the server (IE power, internet, etc.) Stuff breaks. And if you want to prevent the stuff breaking from putting you out of commission you need another server that you can fail over to, which adds the cost of more servers. And if you want a solution in case something REALLY breaks you need a proper backup system. To say nothing of the costs occurred when stuff DOES break and you need to pay out of pocket because the warranty doesn't cover it. Then there's all the various security systems to prevent someone from getting in to INTENTIONALLY break your stuff. Then there's all the ancillary stuff (domain registration, etc.) that contributes MORE costs. And if you decide to go a 3rd party hosted route at an off-site datacenter there's even MORE costs.
So basically what your really saying is for Hitech to scrap this game and just start over with something you "think" will work better.... well at least for you it will.
I dont believe that is really an option. I think the game can still be saved, and not just for the "old guard". The game just needs a better opening. Right now it is too discouraging for the "I want it now" generation.
What I've OBSERVED will work better. Something HAS to give, it's the only way the game will be able to not just compete, but survive. An FTP mode is just a band-aid, and the implementation you propose — where the free players pretty much just exist to fly P-40s and Hurricane Is as target practice for the Paying Elite in La-7s and Spit XVIs — is just going to be the equivalent of ripping out all the hair when you pull it off.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on November 29, 2019, 09:46:30 PM
I hope you're being facetious. I work in IT and nothing could be further from the truth. It's more than just the direct operating costs of the server (IE power, internet, etc.) Stuff breaks. And if you want to prevent the stuff breaking from putting you out of commission you need another server that you can fail over to, which adds the cost of more servers. And if you want a solution in case something REALLY breaks you need a proper backup system. To say nothing of the costs occurred when stuff DOES break and you need to pay out of pocket because the warranty doesn't cover it. Then there's all the various security systems to prevent someone from getting in to INTENTIONALLY break your stuff. Then there's all the ancillary stuff (domain registration, etc.) that contributes MORE costs. And if you decide to go a 3rd party hosted route at an off-site datacenter there's even MORE costs.
I didn't say cheap. I said relatively cheap, compared to the cost of the highly paid developers and artists over the months and years it takes to build great software.
And I believe from past conversation that Hitech's code is very, very efficient and doesn't use near the capacity he already has sitting in his closet. (Especially with the old one declining in population.) I bet he could host multiple games on his existing infrastructure.
Hardware is not the problem. Content is the problem.
(You frekin IT guys.... :rolleyes: go play with some cat5.) :D
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Shuffler on November 29, 2019, 11:39:05 PM
Im not sure where Hitech is in his life. I know when I was middle aged, with a couple of young kids I would have been happy to "retire" and spend more time with them as they grow. Once they hit their teens, then maybe Id look for something to work on just to pass the time.
Maybe it would be good for him to bring in a team so he could step back and let the team continue with the game in what ever way makes sense.
I just wish that something was done to try and bring in, and more importantly KEEP new players. This game is so deep with things to do thatit really is a shame when you see people blow it off for any reason.
BINGO
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: fd ski on December 03, 2019, 05:28:46 PM
i think we're due for a graphics overhaul. Core concepts are still quite all right. Look is just way outdated at this stage.
When comparing to other "simulators" ( i know most of them aren't ) main issue isn't flight models etc, it's the way it looks.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on December 03, 2019, 10:49:34 PM
No one is arguing about the flight model (aside from adding more of the missing details like improved damage modeling or engine management. Hell, just implementing the WWI damage model in the Main Arena would be a big improvement) or core gameplay (other than questioning whether the three-country setup is still viable). AH already offers a better online experience and flight modeling. But you need to get players TO the game for them to see this. Other than infrastructure (IE better Steam implementation) or the financial model, the one thing that would have the biggest short-term impact on bringing fresh eyes is to address the fact that AH is simply visually dated.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Ciaphas on December 04, 2019, 06:26:35 PM
The aircraft are fine IMHO but the terrain textures and normal maps could use a bit of a rework as well as adding variations to the base layout as well as the textures.
The UI could use some live as well
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on December 04, 2019, 06:42:19 PM
The aircraft are fine IMHO but the terrain textures and normal maps could use a bit of a rework as well as adding variations to the base layout as well as the textures.
The UI could use some live as well
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Compare the Wildcats to even the Aces High 2 aircraft (say, the Corsairs). There's a pretty big difference in the level of detail all around.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: The Fugitive on December 04, 2019, 09:17:10 PM
Compare the Wildcats to even the Aces High 2 aircraft (say, the Corsairs). There's a pretty big difference in the level of detail all around.
I think about 95% of the aircraft are upgraded to AH3 standards now. Easiest way to check is to get in one and move the stick. If it moves in the cockpit then it is updated. The "blue" planes are all done. F4F, F4us, FM, and TBM. Tempest is the old style I know for sure, not sure which others.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on December 04, 2019, 09:31:35 PM
The F4U models were updated to AH2 standards and the 1A was added for Tour 87. That's about 12 years ago, and stick, pedals, and throttle all moved beginning with that update.
While they may have gotten higher resolution textures after the change to AH3, and the 1D has the "virtual" pilot in the cockpit view now, (the 1A at least doesn't, not sure about the other marks) there's still a huge difference in the level of detail on the mesh between the Corsairs and Wildcats.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Nefarious on December 05, 2019, 08:11:55 AM
After catching up with most of this thread, my intent was to Encourage more social media interaction from HTC: Dev Blog, any stories or updates, Tour Results, SPECIAL EVENTS shares from the Events page that is being ran by the CM's.
I will only compare what I see on Facebook from other games I play, like DCS and all it's 3rd party groups, as well as IL-2. YES, I understand they actually have development going on. But there should at least be an attempt.
As an admin of the Aces High Special Events Facebook page, and an admin for the Aces High III group, I would love to help Aces High out by sharing content.
Let me know how I can help Dale.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Saxman on December 05, 2019, 09:03:42 AM
The problem is social media engagement only goes so far without addressing underlying concerns. As I mentioned earlier in the thread I’d been looking at what people — the potential player base you’re trying to reach — actually have to say about the game, and the vast majority are specifically that the price point is too high for a game that overall looks like its 10 years old, with such a steep learning curve, and lacking some of the refinements in aircraft and damage modeling Of the competition.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 05, 2019, 09:21:25 AM
The problem is social media engagement only goes so far without addressing underlying concerns. As I mentioned earlier in the thread I’d been looking at what people — the potential player base you’re trying to reach — actually have to say about the game, and the vast majority are specifically that the price point is too high for a game that overall looks like its 10 years old, with such a steep learning curve, and lacking some of the refinements in aircraft and damage modeling Of the competition.
Yup, it is incredibly difficult for gamers to want to subscribe to a game per month when they hardly know how to play after 2 weeks when it doesn't have Microsoft flight sim graphics. It takes very special people to keep playing. I wish there was something like a free plane that people could use to fly in the MA to practice more, which would encourage them a lot more to subscribe. I feel like the subscription model is one of the biggest reasons why the #s aren't huge in the MA. $15 isn't a lot. It's just the psychology of it every month that scares people.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: scott66 on December 05, 2019, 04:06:21 PM
Yup, it is incredibly difficult for gamers to want to subscribe to a game per month when they hardly know how to play after 2 weeks when it doesn't have Microsoft flight sim graphics. It takes very special people to keep playing. I wish there was something like a free plane that people could use to fly in the MA to practice more, which would encourage them a lot more to subscribe. I feel like the subscription model is one of the biggest reasons why the #s aren't huge in the MA. $15 isn't a lot. It's just the psychology of it every month that scares people.
I spent more money on those free games than I do with AH3.. Either on skins or trying to buy my way up the tier levels.. So I came back lol
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: toddbobe on December 16, 2019, 10:56:48 PM
Tried it with about $15k in adds, was a dismal failure.
HiTech
Sir may I suggest an approach in advertising. This games biggest drawback (at first) is that the learning curve is very steep. May I suggest turning this problem into an advantage, market the game as not an arcade kiddy game but a realistic simulation... can you handle it? I think this approach will bring people in for curiosity and give them fair warning that the game is not the simple ipad style games. Thats my $0.02 worth... and its over valued. Todd
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Vraciu on December 27, 2019, 08:31:44 AM
Yup, it is incredibly difficult for gamers to want to subscribe to a game per month when they hardly know how to play after 2 weeks when it doesn't have Microsoft flight sim graphics. It takes very special people to keep playing. I wish there was something like a free plane that people could use to fly in the MA to practice more, which would encourage them a lot more to subscribe. I feel like the subscription model is one of the biggest reasons why the #s aren't huge in the MA. $15 isn't a lot. It's just the psychology of it every month that scares people.
Not only that, but people get mad when they think it's free but see a subscription looming in the future.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Shuffler on December 27, 2019, 09:08:47 AM
Yet people pay money in "free" games all the time.
Those players are reluctant to pay a subscription when they could instead pay to for certain items or features instead. F2P games use gambling as a model for their microtransactions, knowing that some will keep buying stuff, like a gambling addict will keep gambling. In the gaming industry those players are called "Whales", just like what casinos call them.
On the MMO I work in, while the game uses a subscription model, we also have microtransactions. We have players that spend thousand of dollars on microtransactions. When I say thousands, I mean some have spent tens of thousands of dollars on items.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: Shuffler on December 28, 2019, 04:14:21 AM
Those players are reluctant to pay a subscription when they could instead pay to for certain items or features instead. F2P games use gambling as a model for their microtransactions, knowing that some will keep buying stuff, like a gambling addict will keep gambling. In the gaming industry those players are called "Whales", just like what casinos call them.
On the MMO I work in, while the game uses a subscription model, we also have microtransactions. We have players that spend thousand of dollars on microtransactions. When I say thousands, I mean some have spent tens of thousands of dollars on items.
I have read news stories about the amazing amounts a lot of people will pay in those games. It is exactly like the gambling industry.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: guncrasher on December 28, 2019, 10:34:43 AM
I have read news stories about the amazing amounts a lot of people will pay in those games. It is exactly like the gambling industry.
I actually spent over 700 bucks over 2 years and I couldn't keep up with a lot of players. New line of tanks and within a few hours there would be players getting tear 10 tanks. And not just a few but every match would have them.
semp
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: MrGeezer on December 29, 2019, 10:52:54 PM
Don't expect freedom of speech on the HT facebook page.
Title: Re: The future of Aces High is on Facebook
Post by: CptTrips on December 30, 2019, 12:48:45 AM