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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Frodo on November 08, 2019, 09:30:43 PM

Title: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Frodo on November 08, 2019, 09:30:43 PM
https://www.airspacemag.com/airspacemag/world-war-iis-worst-airplane-180973153/?utm_source=DamnInteresting


 :confused:  :uhoh    Nuts

Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Vraciu on November 08, 2019, 10:13:10 PM
Additional details: https://www.docdroid.net/pv8MqRD/lothar-sieber-spitfires-over-berlin-the-airwar-in-europe-1945.pdf#page=8
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Frodo on November 08, 2019, 11:27:08 PM
Even better info.  :cheers:
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Vraciu on November 09, 2019, 09:34:38 AM
Even better info.  :cheers:

 :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Lusche on November 10, 2019, 11:13:49 AM
I think the combat glider concept of the BV-40 was a close second place  :old:
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Greebo on November 10, 2019, 01:31:45 PM
From the warped perspective of the Nazis at the end of the war I don't think the Natter was a totally stupid idea and made more sense tactically as a point interceptor than the Me 163 had. The 163 needed a valuable and extensively trained pilot to fly and land the thing and had to operate from a fixed base that could be attacked or avoided. It was just as dangerous to that pilot as the Natter would have been, not just from that plane's fuel volatility but from Allied fighters as it glided back to base.

The Natter was essentially a manned SAM that could be cheaply built from mostly non-strategic materials using unskilled (i.e. slave) labour and fired from anywhere. It just needed someone with enough training to point it at a bomber, press a button to release its load of rockets or shells and bail out. If the pilot got killed by Allied fighters while in his chute then there were plenty more Hitler Youth to take his place. Not an option for any sane government sure, but the Nazis...why not?

If they had managed to sort out the bugs then the Natter would have probably also worked better than the other un-manned SAM systems being developed by the Nazis at the end of the war because unlike modern SAMs none of those included a viable proximity fuse and so would have needed a direct hit.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Flavel on December 19, 2019, 02:55:23 PM
There was an attack/bomber aircraft that I always considered a deathtrap.

Literally.  A deathtrap.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yokosuka_MXY-7_Ohka (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yokosuka_MXY-7_Ohka)
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Arlo on December 19, 2019, 05:42:54 PM
Then there's:

(https://i.imgur.com/DjI1ILg.png)

Me-328

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_328 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_328)
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: pembquist on December 19, 2019, 07:28:58 PM
Hey! I had never seen that 328 before. Kudos!
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Arlo on December 19, 2019, 09:35:26 PM
It never made it past the drawing board. Cool mock-up, though.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Mister Fork on December 20, 2019, 10:05:28 AM
It never made it past the drawing board. Cool mock-up, though.
...I think that might be one of the 9 prototypes built. Pulse engines were definitely ahead of its time. Right up there with 'worst airplane.' 

Here's a question, what aircraft was the biggest disappointment in WWII with respect to expectations and performance?
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Arlo on December 20, 2019, 10:26:20 AM
...I think that might be one of the 9 prototypes built. Pulse engines were definitely ahead of its time. Right up there with 'worst airplane.' 

Here's a question, what aircraft was the biggest disappointment in WWII with respect to expectations and performance?

I'm torn between the Blackburn Botha and the Heinkel 177.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Mister Fork on December 20, 2019, 10:47:58 AM
I'm torn between the Blackburn Botha and the Heinkel 177.

Yeah, the 177 was a disaster and I'll also add that any four-engined bomber from Germany proved to be useless operationally.

Another disappointing aircraft was the Bf-110.  On paper was to be superior to any early WWII aircraft but in operation and in air to air combat against the Hurricane and Spitfire was a dismal failure. Perhaps if they removed the entire rear gunner and support systems, and shortened the cockpit glass it would have performed better?

Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Vraciu on December 20, 2019, 03:43:12 PM
Yeah, the 177 was a disaster and I'll also add that any four-engined bomber from Germany proved to be useless operationally.

Another disappointing aircraft was the Bf-110.  On paper was to be superior to any early WWII aircraft but in operation and in air to air combat against the Hurricane and Spitfire was a dismal failure. Perhaps if they removed the entire rear gunner and support systems, and shortened the cockpit glass it would have performed better?

Wound up pretty potent as a stopgap night fighter.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Devil 505 on December 20, 2019, 03:46:29 PM
Yeah, the 177 was a disaster and I'll also add that any four-engined bomber from Germany proved to be useless operationally.

Another disappointing aircraft was the Bf-110.  On paper was to be superior to any early WWII aircraft but in operation and in air to air combat against the Hurricane and Spitfire was a dismal failure. Perhaps if they removed the entire rear gunner and support systems, and shortened the cockpit glass it would have performed better?

I'd say the Me 210 even more so. It was so bad that the Luftwaffe ordered more 110's.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Shuffler on December 20, 2019, 03:53:24 PM
 Heinkel He 162 Volksjšger
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Greebo on December 21, 2019, 03:14:50 AM
I think if we are talking about worst aircraft of WW2 we need to make the distinction between design failures and specification failures. The Bf 110 was a failure as a day fighter against modern opposition but this was not the fault of the designers. The 110 met the requirements it was given by the Luftwaffe, who prior to the Battle of Britain still thought it was an excellent day fighter. The 210 on the other hand was a design failure because it was horribly unstable and the wing just did not work.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Bruv119 on December 21, 2019, 10:57:43 PM
Yeah, the 177 was a disaster and I'll also add that any four-engined bomber from Germany proved to be useless operationally.

Another disappointing aircraft was the Bf-110.  On paper was to be superior to any early WWII aircraft but in operation and in air to air combat against the Hurricane and Spitfire was a dismal failure. Perhaps if they removed the entire rear gunner and support systems, and shortened the cockpit glass it would have performed better?

Every BofB scenario in AH people flock to fly it though.  Something is up with that don't you think.    :old:
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: bozon on January 13, 2020, 06:09:09 AM
Every BofB scenario in AH people flock to fly it though.  Something is up with that don't you think.    :old:
In AH 110s firepower is more extreme in comparison to the single engine fighters than in real life. It is also easier to bring these guns to bear since we shoot from longer ranges than RL. Put 4 cannons on any AH bird and you got yourself a potent platform.

I suspect that real pilots were less worried about how tiny are the pieces than they will shred the enemy plane into, and much more worried about their chances of survival. This is why they valued speed and maneuverability over firepower. All those cannons in the nose are no good when the enemy is on your 6.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Greebo on January 13, 2020, 06:26:56 AM
I think part of the issue with the 110 in the BoB was that when it was tied to close escort duties to the bombers and bounced by RAF fighters who sometimes mistook them for Dornier bombers. In AH 110 pilots don't have their hands tied this way and can use their planes to free hunt from altitude and BnZ the RAF fighters.

The other issue with the AH 110 is that it isn't the same variant as was used in the BoB. IIRC our one has more powerful engines but is a bit heavier which should help it zoom climb. Likewise many 109s in the RL BoB lacked cannons and in RL both the Ju-87s and 88s were slower and less powerfully armed variants. Also do AH'S Spits and Hurris get the major benefit of the 100 octane fuel introduced during the battle or are they just running at 1,050 hp?
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Blakes7 on February 07, 2020, 04:28:33 AM
Blackburn Roc - killed one ju88 during the entire war
Blackburn Fireband - spec issued in 1939, entered service 1945, despite that it was horrible.
Saro Lerwick - Structural issues, stability issues, underpowered, they ALL disappeared or crashed.
Blackburn Botha - The worst recon plane in the world, crew can only see forward.

Nothing beats the Sea Vixen a few years later, one of the first carrier jets - More than half of them crashed. Weapons officer is blind, has no cockpit, just a glass escape hatch.
(https://i.ibb.co/PmKg7p0/845-SLt-showing-the-famous.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7YPKwcL)
image hosting free (https://imgbb.com/)
Sublieutenant showing £2 million damage to a belly-landed Sea Vixen. They want to restore it and fly it again, despite have a 50% crash track record. Not strictly WW2 but an example of British insanity, like being the only government in the world to own and operate biplanes listed on active service. I'm not complaining though...
(https://i.ibb.co/fddx4BH/Cockpit-of-airworthy-Swordf.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QvvKrzM)
image hosting free (https://imgbb.com/)
We have 3 Swordfish. This one is early war and has fabric wings. It's painted as the aircraft from HMS Illustrious that attacked the Bismarck, same as the 1/72 Revell plastic model Kit. The other Swordfish has metal under-wings and is painted in late-war camo. The third "Stringbag" is in pieces and is slowly being restored.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: mora on February 07, 2020, 07:48:11 AM
I think that Blackburn Roc always needs to be mentioned in a discussion like this. Apart from the prototype modified from a Blackburn Skua, they were actually built by Boulton Paul which had acquired manufacturing rights for the French turret used in the Defiant. Another British warplane that ended up as a target tug.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Brooke on February 10, 2020, 03:44:53 AM
Saro Lerwick - Structural issues, stability issues, underpowered, they ALL disappeared or crashed.

Never heard of that one before so looked it up.  Yikes!
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: save on February 10, 2020, 09:00:34 AM
As a night-fighter Bf110  was really good, and as a Jabo on the eastern front it worked 1941.





Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: AKKuya on February 12, 2020, 06:15:39 PM
How do you know it's the airplane?  Maybe they put the wrong pilot in it.  As far as combat, well once the plane gets into the air, the whole plan goes out the window and Lady Luck takes over.

My vote.

 Heinkel He177 Greif

Being the only German heavy bomber, the He-177 Greif was remembered as one of the most troublesome aircraft of the war. The plane was doomed to fail from the very beginning since the 1938 requirements made by the German Air Ministry required a heavy bomber and an anti-ship aircraft capable of dive bombing at the same time. With a length of 72ft 2in and wingspan of 103ft 1ĺin, this was a true challenge for engineers. It was probably for that reason that they resorted to the interesting concept of pairing two engines to each of two propellers. Such a complicated system caused the engines to overheat and burst into flames.

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/top-ten-worst-aircraft-of-wwii.html
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: MiloMorai on March 12, 2020, 11:05:42 AM
Only with the DB606 engines was fire a problem. Switching to DB610 engines was fixed. It was oil gathering in the V that was the source of the fires.

The dive bombing was actually a shallow glide.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Oldman731 on March 12, 2020, 08:05:16 PM
Only with the DB606 engines was fire a problem. Switching to DB610 engines was fixed. It was oil gathering in the V that was the source of the fires.

The dive bombing was actually a shallow glide.


Nevertheless, the 177 is a pretty fair candidate for the award.

- oldman
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: MiloMorai on March 13, 2020, 07:50:12 AM

Nevertheless, the 177 is a pretty fair candidate for the award.

- oldman

The B-29 might also then be also considered as it was full of 'glitches'.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Denniss on March 13, 2020, 09:31:47 AM
The DB 606 was not the problem in the He 177, it was the very tighht installation in the He 177 engine nacelle which lead to leaking oil from various sources meet hot exhaust pipes = boom!.
In the A-3 the nacelle was lengthened and the new DB 610 engine moved forward to alleviate this problem. Although this "new" engine also brought new trouble with foaming motor oil thus a new source for engines bursting into flames until fixed in later 1943.
Overall the He 177 was a maintenance nightmare but if flown properly it was a capable bomber.
The low-drag airframe strengthened for dives later  helped with highspeed shallow-angle glidepath approaches to strategic targets and similar highspeed runs back home.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Flayed1 on June 08, 2020, 11:08:33 AM
  I know I'm a little late to the party here but I just saw this and remembered I had a little desk top book (Aircraft of wold war II by Chris Chant) with a listing for the 177 and thought I would share...   

  Heinkel HE 177A-5 Greif 
In total Heinkel and Arado together delivered 565 He 177A-5 aircraft, and their operational record was much better than earlier versions. The most important Luftwaffe units to use the He 177 were the KG 40 and KG 100, both taking part in revenge attacks against London during the early weeks of 1944. The A-6 version , of which 6 were built, had a pressurised cabin. However, the problems with the engines persisted. On February 1944, for example, 14 A-5's taxied out for a bombing raid on England. By the time the aircraft took off one had already encountered mechanical problems, and eight more soon returned to base with overheated or burning engines. Only four reached England to deliver their bomb loads, and of these one was shot down. 
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: LCADolby on June 08, 2020, 01:05:08 PM
Gloster Meteor.

Did little more than pop a handful of doodle bugs in ww2 because it was "too precious" to fight on the frontline, then quickly fell into obsolescence post war.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Vulcan on June 08, 2020, 09:09:31 PM
Gloster Meteor.

Did little more than pop a handful of doodle bugs in ww2 because it was "too precious" to fight on the frontline, then quickly fell into obsolescence post war.

That's not true.
Title: Re: World War IIís Worst Airplane
Post by: Greebo on June 09, 2020, 03:10:16 AM
The Meteor was certainly not a good design with its unsophisticated aerodynamics and with its wide set engines causing a high accident rate. That the RAF initially decided to limit its front line use because they didn't want it falling into enemy hands though is not a mark of failure but of success. Despite its faults it was after all the fastest operational Allied aircraft of the war. Post war it became one of the main RAF front line fighters, several hundred were sold to other air forces and it was only made obsolete in around 1950 by the widespread adoption of the Mig 15, something that was also true to some extent for every other Allied straight wing jet fighter.

If we are talking jets I'd say the Me-163 is a better candidate for WW2's worst airplane, it was more dangerous to its pilots than to the enemy and rocket fighters were a complete dead end technology-wise.