Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Gooss on November 25, 2019, 04:47:24 PM
-
I've always used twisty sticks because i'm already juggling all the buttons and sliders and twisting on my stick along with a beer and a sandwich and I don't think I can keep track of my feet and what they're supposed to be doing.
Just saw a post that not using pedals is a disadvantage. Is it? Even with a twisty stick?
Cheers!
-
Pedals are definitely better. I use VKB T-rudder pedals. Expensive but they are the best I have tried.
-
My experience is that pedals are going to be much more precise than the twisty stick. It's also a much more natural movement and requires less coordination that trying to twist the stick. Less risk of accidentally putting other control forces into the stick as well
-
I know people who can be beasts with a twisty. I know people who can be beasts with mouse and keyboard.
For the rest of us mere mortals, IMO pedals are very helpful. They take a bit to get used to, but they're well worth it. They allow you to isolate what you're doing with the rudder from what you're doing with the ailerons/elevator.
Wiley.
-
Well said Wiley. Twisty stick for rudder always affected input to elevator and aelerons when I used them when I started.
-
I can't use the mouse to fly and the couple times I tried the twisty I was always putting in rudder by accident, I'm not sure I use my rudder enough due to lack of coordination in the moment but the twisty just makes that worse because sometimes sitting on your hands is the right thing to do, less is more etc. etc. The one thing that is kind of meh about rudder pedals is that there is no real force feedback.
-
Pedals are more precise, and with some practice you use them without thinking about it. I also find it easier to do something like a snap roll with pedals, as opposed to a twisty.
:salute
Sik
-
. . .with some practice you use them without thinking about it.
There's definitely a learning curve at first. I often found myself not using them by accident. Now I can't imagine flying without them
-
Pedals are more precise, and with some practice you use them without thinking about it. I also find it easier to do something like a snap roll with pedals, as opposed to a twisty.
:salute
Sik
One of the best kills I ever made I'd never have been able to pull off with a twist stick.
I was in an F4U-1 (back before we got the 1A with the remodel), merging at co-alt with a P-47 I ran across while cruising home from a furball at about 15,000 feet. The merge was at fairly high speed (I punched on WEP as soon as I had him iconed) and we were offset about 300 yards to starboard to avoid a straight HO. He was setting up to swing around behind me as we passed, so I kicked full left rudder just as we were about to merge, and raked him nose to tail. Shredded his left wing in one burst.
With a twist stick I very likely would have had too much elevator or aileron input to keep my nose level. Additionally, I probably wouldn't have been able to time it properly, because it's simply a much quicker and more natural movement to kick the rudder than twist the wrist in that manner.
-
rudder pedals make it more like flying a real plane. while not necessary, they do make it better and easier to fly. you can do more things with pedals. just my 2 cents.
-
I always felt i did better with a twisty. I have rudder pedals now, cause my favorite twisty is not made anymore and hard to find used (MSForceFeedback)
Been using the pedals for a while now and they do take some getting used to, i feel they are a wash.
-
Thinking about getting a set of pedals.
What would be a good set without breaking the bank.
Thanks;
Goat
-
Hey Goat, I have a set of CH pro pedals. They are fairly close together which is the main complaint of most people. I dont have a problem with that. They have toe brakes and are pretty smooth. The big selling point is that I have used them for YEARS with out an issue. First set I owned was a "serial" connector set and only retired them when I bought a USB set when they came out years ago.
-
My CH Pro pedals keep going and going and going....
-
My CH Pro pedals keep going and going and going....
Mine, too.
- oldman
-
I didn't like the CH peds as they were set too close together. Just kinda uncomfortable ifyaknowwhatimean! So then I had some Saitek peds that had a wider stance and toe brakes. They worked but were not the smoothest action in the world. Inaccurate at best. Just a product of their construction. I've had MFG Crosswinds peds for a couple of years now and totally love them. Excellent build quality, configurable and contactless sensors so they're super smooth. All composite with steel bearings. They have some weight to them unlike the others. They cost a lot more but I figure they're also the last set of peds I'd ever need to buy. If ya had some extra bucks to throw around I'd recommend them.
I don't know if there's an advantage or not to peds vs twist. It's all about the controllers themselves and muscle memory. If twisty works for you then that's all that matters.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
-
I've got a set of Thrustmaster Elite Pedals...I used a twisty stick forever...I'll never fly with a twisty stick again...I never knew what rudder control was until I started using my pedals...it took me many hours of flying before I was able to use them right...it helps so much in slow speed knife fights and in the vert...I'll never go back and would recommend that anyone playing this game get a set of rudder pedals...
Mine are gameport pedals from back in the day...I have to use a gameport to usb adapter...and it works just fine... :joystick: :airplane: :banana:
-
I switched from twisty stick to pedals long ago, there was a transition, but ultimately pedals were an improvement for me, and as others have said, I have CH Pro pedals......and they keep working without issue.
-
Thanks for the replies, will check out the deals
on cyber Monday.
Goat
-
I switched from twisty stick to pedals back to twisty stick.
-
I had a twisty flew with pedals for 5 years, took about 6 months to get used to it. was really good, till I torn ligaments on both feet and couldnt use the pedals, took me another 6 months to get to twisty. if I could I would go back to pedals. but not ch, just like now I wont buy another ch product. guess they had a great product once, but I went thru several of them, including pedals that didnt last for crap. and sure as hell aint gonna spend 500 bucks on pedals from vk.
semp
-
CH worked for me for many years, but had to replace some internal wiring recently. Expect they will be good for another 10 yrs.
-
I had a twisty flew with pedals for 5 years, took about 6 months to get used to it. was really good, till I torn ligaments on both feet and couldnt use the pedals, took me another 6 months to get to twisty. if I could I would go back to pedals. but not ch, just like now I wont buy another ch product. guess they had a great product once, but I went thru several of them, including pedals that didnt last for crap. and sure as hell aint gonna spend 500 bucks on pedals from vk.
semp
Geez, how hard were you working your CH gear? I’ve never had durability issues with any CH product I’ve owned (I STILL have the same Fighterstick I got 15 years ago).
-
Geez, how hard were you working your CH gear? I’ve never had durability issues with any CH product I’ve owned (I STILL have the same Fighterstick I got 15 years ago).
I had a fighterstick for roughly 20 years. I never had an issue with the gimbal even tho it was all plastic. Over the years the only problems I had were the same ones everyone else that had them (and any earlier gen stick for that matter) were the pots either getting dirty or simply wearing out. The parts used to be easy to come by via CH but these days not so much. You can get the right parts with a little digging. Only other problem was a hat switch started to get flaky but with all the mileage put on that stick I didn't owe it a thing. I've since switched to a VKB gunfighter and I doubt I'll have to buy another stick moving forward.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
-
Thanks for the replies. And goat1's question about recommendations. I've liked my Thrustmaster T16000M stick. And they make pedals. Any experience with the TFRP pedal? Only $30 less than CH. So CH would be better choice?
https://www.amazon.com/ThrustMaster-2960764-Thrustmaster-TFRP-Rudder/dp/B015PII6YI
Happy Thanksgiving.
-
Geez, how hard were you working your CH gear? I’ve never had durability issues with any CH product I’ve owned (I STILL have the same Fighterstick I got 15 years ago).
You got the old ch stick. I got the new after the company was sold and quality went down the hill.
semp
-
The one thing I wish I could do is build my own 3-axis trim wheel. I've got CH's Quadrant, and I love that I can put trim on analog controls which makes tweaking and fine-tuning trim a snap vs. pushing buttons The only problem is trying to trim aileron and rudder would be much easier if the direction properly matched up with direction (IE, a twist knob for rudder trim, and a horizontal wheel for aileron). I've seen some two-axis trims boxes with aileron/elevator like that, but nothing that has all three axes.
-
The one thing I wish I could do is build my own 3-axis trim wheel. I've got CH's Quadrant, and I love that I can put trim on analog controls which makes tweaking and fine-tuning trim a snap vs. pushing buttons The only problem is trying to trim aileron and rudder would be much easier if the direction properly matched up with direction (IE, a twist knob for rudder trim, and a horizontal wheel for aileron). I've seen some two-axis trims boxes with aileron/elevator like that, but nothing that has all three axes.
On my VKB stick one of the hat switches has a neat trick. In one mode it's a standard 8 way hat. I use it for regular view directions. It has a center press too. A long press on the center transforms that hat to a 2 axis mini stick. I mapped those to elevator and aileron trim. A short press centers them. Another long press puts it back to views. It's a pretty cool feature! I have rudder trim mapped to my throttle.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
-
I've always used twisty sticks because i'm already juggling all the buttons and sliders and twisting on my stick along with a beer and a sandwich and I don't think I can keep track of my feet and what they're supposed to be doing.
Just saw a post that not using pedals is a disadvantage. Is it? Even with a twisty stick?
Cheers!
According to a player I had shot down, using rudder pedals was cheating. Whatever happened to Hammer Down?
-
and sure as hell aint gonna spend 500 bucks on pedals from vk.
semp
VKB pedals don't cost that much. Yes, they are pricey but then they are far superior to anything CH, Thrustmaster, or Saitek puts out. The pedals from those companies are 16bit, while pedals like the T-Rudder MkIV from VKB are 32bit, far more precise and accurate than any 16bit rudder pedals and give the player a significant advantage.
-
According to a player I had shot down, using rudder pedals was cheating. Whatever happened to Hammer Down?
Cheating - using rudders, no tracers, HO'ing a B5n in an A8, diving faster than a 262 , shooing down Lancaster from underneath where they have no guns. next will probably be taking off when someone auger into a hangar :D.
If you fly real planes there is no substitute for rudder pedals in my world.
-
VKB pedals don't cost that much. Yes, they are pricey but then they are far superior to anything CH, Thrustmaster, or Saitek puts out. The pedals from those companies are 16bit, while pedals like the T-Rudder MkIV from VKB are 32bit, far more precise and accurate than any 16bit rudder pedals and give the player a significant advantage.
I'm sure that the VKB makes nice products, but I would have to push back on the theory that breaking your 6 inches or so of rudder travel into 65536 chunks lacks the precision necessary to measure position that meets or exceeds the user's ability to actually control that pedal.
-
I've had my Saitek pedals for a few years now and they haven't given me any grief.
-
There is a huge amount of both fail and win in pedals design and it's hard to get a set that has win in every category.
-
But the fails are largely knocked down by dollars. The cheaper ones either have form factor issues, too small, no durability, no parts availability and almost no service or no service at all.
Higher end peds will cost a hundred or so bucks more but are made of sterner stuff that is far less likely to ever screw up. And if it does they're made by small companies that are glad to stand by their products. In the case of my MFG peds I've had multiple emails from the owner asking how I like them. Try getting that from TM, CH or Saitek! They're smooth as silk and very configurable. I just got a set of adapters that make them a little bit wider and there are various alternate cams and springs to make them feel as you like. The cheaper ones are one trick plug and play. If there's something you don't like about them you're out of luck!
Thing is really flight sims are a niche of the gaming world so decent pedals are a niche of the controller world.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
-
CH pro peds
<S>
Eagler
-
I just find it hard to believe Gooss you've flown all this time without peddles. Now it makes sense that I was able to shoot you down in that funny blue wingy thing. My old CH peddles still going strong, but you deserve those fine looking MFG or VKB's. How else can you control all that torque on them hogs?
-
<S> Pots. It’s guys like you who’ve always punished me to make me finally look into pedals. I just hope I don’t spill my beer when I get them.
-
Guess y’all talked me into pedals. So what’s the top of the line stick these days, currently have a X52 Pro.
-
I do ok with just my sidewinder
:joystick:
-
Guess y’all talked me into pedals. So what’s the top of the line stick these days, currently have a X52 Pro.
You know you don't have to get a new stick to add rudder pedals? It is a good excuse though.
Top of the line sticks would be the VKB, https://vkbcontrollers.com/ and Virpil https://virpil.com/. They both make rudder pedals as well.
There are also other options when it comes to top of the line pedals. MFG Crosswinds, https://mfg-sim.com/en/ and what I'm currently using Slaw Devices Viper Rx. Slaw Devices is the only outfit that doesn't have a web store. You contact him through facebook.
:salute
Sik
-
You know you don't have to get a new stick to add rudder pedals? It is a good excuse though.
:salute
Sik
Yea, just not sure what the shelf life of this x52 will be.
-
VKB just announced a twist adapter for their gunfighter line of sticks. It seems like that release may be close to imminent.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
-
VKB makes good stuff. I still use their rudder pedals and like them a lot. They make good sticks too, but IMO not quite as good as Virpil. VKB used to have top notch service, but it has gone downhill. Virpil has regularly scheduled restocks and good communication with product release dates. The quality of the throttle and bases are great. The Virpil software is also much easier to navigate
-
I've always used rudder pedals since I first started in Air Warrior, so well over 20 years. I've had different sets over the years and currently using VKB, which are excellent. I'd rather use rudder pedals than a twisty stick any day! :)
-
Santa came through. New Thrustmaster pedals. I'll be the F4U falling. Get some.
Thanks for the assists.
Merry Christmas!
HONK!
Gooss
-
Santa came through. New Thrustmaster pedals. I'll be the F4U falling. Get some.
Thanks for the assists.
Merry Christmas!
HONK!
Gooss
Nice! Pedals are the best. You won't regret it once you get use to them.
-
I'm very happy with the Virpil base for my Thrustmaster sticks. It works with the Cougar as well as Warthog. Thrustmaster is finally selling replacement bases for the Warthog but the Virpil base is much better.
I'm using the Thrustmaster TPR pedals. I like them a lot. The unit is huge but the design doesn't fill up with dust and the pedals are smooth, easy to move, and precise.
-
I have always used a twisty from day one. I have never felt that I have been at a disadvantage or out flown because the other guy has pedals.
If it would increase my hit ratio or ability to complete menovers that couldnt be possible with a twisty I would switch.
I just don't log the hours anymore to teach those old dog new tricks.
-
Santa came through. New Thrustmaster pedals. I'll be the F4U falling. Get some.
Thanks for the assists.
Merry Christmas!
HONK!
Gooss
....Good news, hope you enjoy them Gooss! :cheers:
-
I also got the Thrustmaster pedals a couple of weeks ago.
It does take a while to get used to, still learning how to use
brakes without crashing.
Goat
-
I also got the Thrustmaster pedals a couple of weeks ago.
It does take a while to get used to, still learning how to use
brakes without crashing.
Goat
Calibrate both brake axis, don't land too fast, and when below flight speed on the runway hold the stick back.
-
Thanks, I’ll give that a try.
Goat
-
Thanks, I’ll give that a try.
Goat
After touching down.... as you slow and pull back on the stick slightly, it locks the tail wheel so it does not spin-out/ground-loop on you. Of course that is on tail draggers only.
-
Thanks, I’ll give that a try.
Goat
If you still have issues with it help is available. We do specific issues as well as basic training.
I did one session that was only on the double loop. Key point being both entry speeds.