Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: TBlayde on January 10, 2020, 11:24:43 PM
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Short and sweet.
Refresh rates need to be identical for everyone regardless of the money they invest in hardware.
I and many people I know don't have the budget to compete with people with $5k rigs and get any enjoyment of constantly lagging behind higher grade equipment.
I love Aces High but it's practically un-playable since AH III game out from a game play perspective.
There has been tons of research done on this effect and I am just sick of it. Still holding out but this really has GOT to be fixed.
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So you want to force everyone into Atari 2600 mode?
Why not restrict us all to 14" monitors, too?
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Short and sweet.
Refresh rates need to be identical for everyone regardless of the money they invest in hardware.
I and many people I know don't have the budget to compete with people with $5k rigs and get any enjoyment of constantly lagging behind higher grade equipment.
I love Aces High but it's practically un-playable since AH III game out from a game play perspective.
There has been tons of research done on this effect and I am just sick of it. Still holding out but this really has GOT to be fixed.
Do you think HTC should make everyone internet connection identical as well. :old:
Coogan
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So you want to force everyone into Atari 2600 mode?
Why not restrict us all to 14" monitors, too?
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Utter BS response and you know it.
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Utter BS response and you know it.
Actually it is exactly what your post suggests.
Some folks have slower connections too. There is no way for everyone to be even.
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Actually it is exactly what your post suggests.
Some folks have slower connections too. There is no way for everyone to be even.
It was so in AH II.
Gameplay has suffered greatly. The only improvement has been Bustr's new maps. But that doesn't solve the refresh problem.
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This game is far from requiring cutting edge hardware.
Your game play has suffered but not because of Aces High.
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Utter BS response and you know it.
No, but yours may well be.
I think the replies above explain why.
If you force people to downgrade you won't have to worry about losing any more because everyone will quit.
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There were a few ppl talking about fancy screens on 200 the other day. I got jealous so I overclocked my screen from 60 to 70 Hz and turned of shadows and reflections. I'm happy now.
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There were a few ppl talking about fancy screens on 200 the other day. I got jealous so I overclocked my screen from 60 to 70 Hz and turned of shadows and reflections. I'm happy now.
whats unfortunate is that most of us probably dont know how to do this. Another step in the uneven playing field that us bottom feeders have to deal with.
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Short and sweet.
Refresh rates need to be identical for everyone regardless of the money they invest in hardware.
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What specific problem are you seeing personally that's caused by 60Hz?
I don't see how refresh rates are an issue. I would expect a bigger difference from input lag but that's not adjustable. Could you cite the relevant research for flight sims?
VR currently uses 70,80, and 90Hz refresh rates and I think 70 is a little low for smooth VR.
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whats unfortunate is that most of us probably dont know how to do this. Another step in the uneven playing field that us bottom feeders have to deal with.
Knowledge is power. Ask for help and someone will.
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whats unfortunate is that most of us probably dont know how to do this. Another step in the uneven playing field that us bottom feeders have to deal with.
On the plus side, since it wouldn't make a noticeable difference going from 60 -70 you don't need to worry about it.
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Gotta wonder what your PC specs are? Heck I built mine in 2012 and all I've done is replace the video card to get to VR which tops out at 80fps. Other than that, there's nothing that would be considered top end currently on mine. I overclock my CPU and GPU to keep up. My monitor is a 25" 60hz monitor that I've found I can bump to 75.
Think AH is bad on your rig? Try IL-2 or DCS! Or pretty much any other 3D game out these days. They're a huge factor prettier than AH is but your really need some higher end current equipment to even run it let alone be competitive. I belive that HT has made an effort over the years to keep the graphics toned down a bit if only to keep more players with older PCs in the game. But there are limits! We can't go back to air warrior in the 90s with flat water and pyramids! That was a long time ago.
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Short and sweet.
Refresh rates need to be identical for everyone regardless of the money they invest in hardware.
I and many people I know don't have the budget to compete with people with $5k rigs and get any enjoyment of constantly lagging behind higher grade equipment.
I love Aces High but it's practically un-playable since AH III game out from a game play perspective.
There has been tons of research done on this effect and I am just sick of it. Still holding out but this really has GOT to be fixed.
What issue are you talking about? Refresh rates are how fast your screen is refreshed. The human eye cant see the difference from 30 to 60 to 90 anyway, so whats the problem?
The only difference between a high end rig and a low end one is how much eye candy you can run. I have a pretty good rig and run almost everything maxed out because I like looking at the pretty pictures. Many who CAN run high settings choose to run lower setting to "get an edge" by having less trees, or shadows, or lens flairs to bother them.
So, what issue are you talking about?
whats unfortunate is that most of us probably dont know how to do this. Another step in the uneven playing field that us bottom feeders have to deal with.
If your having an issue with the game, ask about it! You'll never know if it something you can easily fix or not if you dont ask. All the "fancy screen" does is give you pretty pictures. Many of these guys are willing to walk you through any kinds of adjustments you can make whether its in the game or on the computer
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Short and sweet.
Refresh rates need to be identical for everyone regardless of the money they invest in hardware.
I and many people I know don't have the budget to compete with people with $5k rigs and get any enjoyment of constantly lagging behind higher grade equipment.
I love Aces High but it's practically un-playable since AH III game out from a game play perspective.
There has been tons of research done on this effect and I am just sick of it. Still holding out but this really has GOT to be fixed.
Didnt realize Bernie played AH3!
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I invested in a monitor that will run at 144Hz and my k/d hasn't improved at all. I'm saving up for a 200Hz monitor. :D
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I invested in a monitor that will run at 144Hz and my k/d hasn't improved at all. I'm saving up for a 200Hz monitor. :D
:rofl
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I'd say if anything VR has been the biggest help to my historically pathetic gunnery. But only by a smidge. Lot of bad habits there!
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Didnt realize Bernie played AH3!
"Muh-illionaires and Buh-illionaires." :old:
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Short and sweet.
Refresh rates need to be identical for everyone regardless of the money they invest in hardware.
I and many people I know don't have the budget to compete with people with $5k rigs and get any enjoyment of constantly lagging behind higher grade equipment.
I love Aces High but it's practically un-playable since AH III game out from a game play perspective.
There has been tons of research done on this effect and I am just sick of it. Still holding out but this really has GOT to be fixed.
you're going to have to prove to us why you think this is a problem, the tick rate for this game isn't high enough for this to even matter.
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Never effected my hit percentage or kill/death that I could tell.
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Short and sweet.
Refresh rates need to be identical for everyone regardless of the money they invest in hardware.
I and many people I know don't have the budget to compete with people with $5k rigs and get any enjoyment of constantly lagging behind higher grade equipment.
I love Aces High but it's practically un-playable since AH III game out from a game play perspective.
There has been tons of research done on this effect and I am just sick of it. Still holding out but this really has GOT to be fixed.
Another excuse to explain away someone's suckage.
Playing this game at 60hz refresh rate against someone using a higher refresh rate isn't going to give that person an advantage over the player with the lower refresh rate. Now, controllers on the other hand can give someone an advantage in this game but not refresh rates.
Even in eSport games it is questionable if high refresh rates give an advantage.
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I'd say if anything VR has been the biggest help to my historically pathetic gunnery. But only by a smidge. Lot of bad habits there!
Maybe the effect of it being new made you play more, and that caused it?
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Even in eSport games it is questionable if high refresh rates give an advantage.
Some ancient FPS needed exactly 333 fps to make some movements possible. Those times are long gone I hope.
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I would be really curious to see what one can do at a higher refresh rate that they can't at 60 Hz.
This isn't a twitch fps.
Wiley.
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Maybe the effect of it being new made you play more, and that caused it?
Caused what? Improved gunnery? By only by a smidge ain't sayin much! I go back to AW and even when I flew nightly I still sucked at the whole shooty part. The guys that have known me that long can vouch for that! Over the past few years I've gotten new pedals and stick and now VR, figuring I'd play more as I do still enjoy it. But I don't have the time like I used to. I'm an FSO, maybe walk on to a scenario and maybe a random night flying player anymore.
About the only diff with VR is much better depth perception. That does help. Not only does the target look like a truely 3D object, you can literally see the tracers better and walk them in. But my many years of bad gunnery habits die hard. It hasn't helped THAT much! Going from a 75hz monitor to an 80hz HMD hasn't made me super ace!
Back to the subject tho. There's so much more to this game, to combat flight sims. You either know the capabilities of your plane vs the other guy's or you don't. Not knowing that gets you killed. You either know ACM and how to employ it or you don't. Not knowing that gets you killed. You either have good SA skills or you don't. Not being able to keep track of what's going on around you gets you killed. If you can shoot better that can help undo a lot of the other above things you've screwed up, I've never been that guy! Better FR isn't gonna help with most of this. That stuff happens between your ears. However, if you're trying to play on a commodore 64 that just isn't gonna cut it in 2020.
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Drano have you practiced with the lead computing gunsight aid offline or in the TA? You'll need a maneuvering target but it teaches the correct sight picture and everybody that uses it for the first time is surprised by the actual lead required.
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Drano have you practiced with the lead computing gunsight aid offline or in the TA? You'll need a maneuvering target but it teaches the correct sight picture and everybody that uses it for the first time is surprised by the actual lead required.
No, but even so the "sight picture" needs practice to get established in your mind. That takes time and I'll just use what time I have to flying online. It doesn't frustrate me. It would frustrate me if I didn't have the flying part down and I'm fine there at least.
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Another excuse to explain away someone's suckage.
Playing this game at 60hz refresh rate against someone using a higher refresh rate isn't going to give that person an advantage over the player with the lower refresh rate. Now, controllers on the other hand can give someone an advantage in this game but not refresh rates.
Even in eSport games it is questionable if high refresh rates give an advantage.
What rate do you use and why?
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No, but even so the "sight picture" needs practice to get established in your mind. That takes time and I'll just use what time I have to flying online. It doesn't frustrate me. It would frustrate me if I didn't have the flying part down and I'm fine there at least.
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Try it once. Let me know if you need a maneuvering target. You already have sight pictures established, you just need to adjust them.
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What rate do you use and why?
I use a monitor with a 60hz refresh rate because that's what my monitor supports.
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I use a monitor with a 60hz refresh rate because that's what my monitor supports.
Understood. Thanks. Thought perhaps you would know something I didn't on this issue.
I think I do the same as you and for the same reason. :salute
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Understood. Thanks. Thought perhaps you would know something I didn't on this issue.
I think I do the same as you and for the same reason. :salute
The thought is likely something along the lines of higher refresh is smoother and would allow faster reaction. The way this game works, I'm really having trouble imagining a scenario where it would make a noticeable difference. In infantry shooter games, those milliseconds matter but in this game stuff just doesn't happen that fast.
With 2 hoing 262s it *might* be a smidge different but I'd be curious to know what the OP thinks the advantage is.
Wiley.
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The thought is likely something along the lines of higher refresh is smoother and would allow faster reaction. The way this game works, I'm really having trouble imagining a scenario where it would make a noticeable difference. In infantry shooter games, those milliseconds matter but in this game stuff just doesn't happen that fast.
With 2 hoing 262s it *might* be a smidge different but I'd be curious to know what the OP thinks the advantage is.
Wiley.
I don't know enough about it all to comment one way or the other. I feel like 60 is limiting but I have far bigger problems with my skills than I do with my refresh rate.
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The higher the refresh rate the smoother the game looks which is more comfortable, especially in VR. The bigger issue is the spacing between frames. 45 FPS with exact timing between frames could look smoother than 60 FPS with a timing variation between frames. So 60 FPS could be smoother on one system than another. Also any stutter is more noticeable the lower the framerate. With 120 FPS a timing variation would be less noticeable since it could only be 1/2 of the variation at 60 FPS. 180 FPS with exact timing would be very nice but generally not an advantage vs 45 FPS except in comfort and enjoyment.
Input lag and sloppy joysticks are issues more likely to affect performance.
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Wow
Socialism visits AH3
Lol
Get a life please
<S>
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LoL. I'm all for maintaining a reasonably fair and level playing field for all players. I just can't image that this would have any material effect in this type of game. It would be interesting to do some controlled tests somehow.
If the OP really wants to worry about the rich-man's advantage, I think a much larger advantage is provided by TrackIR and even more so by VR, as compared to normal joystick hat views .
Being able to look straight back with the hat switch without twisting around and still have the advantage of leaning to look around the tail almost feels like cheating. :D
My skillz still suck, but I definitely suck less in a furball with VR.
:salute
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VR is likely good, I still think the biggest rich man's advantage would be TrackIR and a triple monitor setup. I believe that would be the best SA you could buy.
I'd also be curious to try some controlled tests. Anyone want to spot me a 144Hz monitor and a computer that can drive it? :D
Wiley.
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My vote is TrackIR. VR is awesome but you have to move your head way too much to look around compared to TrackIR. The reaction time is just faster with the latter.
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My vote is TrackIR. VR is awesome but you have to move your head way too much to look around compared to TrackIR. The reaction time is just faster with the latter.
No you don't.
The hat views can be used in conjunction with the VR. So I hit the hat switch and I am instantly looking directly backwards. While looking backwards I can tilt my head a bit to see around the tail.
With VR combine with hat views, I almost never turn my head more than +-10 Deg max. Other that that I am just tilting from side to side bit.
In IL2? Yeah. I got to the the Linda Blair thing to look behind me.
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Interesting.
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Interesting.
And the other advantage is just the true sense of 3D space and distance. It really helps with lead and deflection shooting. I still suck, but my gunnery feels about 25% better with VR.
The trade-off (currently but maybe not forever) is resolution. Ironically, that has pro's and con's too. We were noticing in the last couple of scenarios, that I was seeming to pick up distant dots sooner that some of the monitor players who thought I was seeing thing in my imagination. Our best guess was that a single distant dot con is more visible to me because a single pixel is larger to me relative to my field of view because my resolution is lower.
Compared to a faster monitor? Pfffft. Two equally skilled players, one monitor only, one VR, the VR player has a significant advantage, IMHO.
Right now all the VR guys are like: "Shhhhhh. STFU dude!"
Let me put it this way. I won't play a flight sim that doesn't have decent VR support. Period. Full stop. Non-negotiable. I have Cliffs of Dover Blitz sitting on my hard drive. It is beautiful and I dearly want to sit and dig into several axis/allied pilot carreers. But I won't until they've added the VR support. Non-negotiable. I just couldn't ever go back.
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And the other advantage is just the true sense of 3D space and distance. It really helps with lead and deflection shooting. I still suck, but my gunnery feels about 25% better with VR.
The trade-off (currently but maybe not forever) is resolution. Ironically, that has pro's and con's too. We were noticing in the last couple of scenarios, that I was seeming to pick up distant dots sooner that some of the monitor players who thought I was seeing thing in my imagination. Our best guess was that a single distant dot con is more visible to me because a single pixel is larger to me relative to my field of view because my resolution is lower.
Compared to a faster monitor? Pfffft. Two equally skilled players, one monitor only, one VR, the VR player has a significant advantage, IMHO.
Right now all the VR guys are like: "Shhhhhh. STFU dude!"
Let me put it this way. I won't play a flight sim that doesn't have decent VR support. Period. Full stop. Non-negotiable. I have Cliffs of Dover Blitz sitting on my hard drive. It is beautiful and I dearly want to sit and dig into several axis/allied pilot carreers. But I won't until they've added the VR support. Non-negotiable. I just couldn't ever go back.
I'd agree with what you've said in your last two posts. VR has been a leap forward but there are still some steps to be made along the way. I said before my gunnery had improved and I believe it has although not by as much as yours! I think that has to do with seeing the target in much higher detail as a 3D object at least within guns range. I am also seeing distant dots now where they went away years ago when I got a 1080p monitor. I agree it's the lower res on the headset that's the reason there. Bigger pixels.
Having the ability in AH to use the hat switches makes it almost exactly like using TIR so that transition was pretty flawless. Messing with IL-2 lately I also agree that their view system needs to include this for VR users. Anything much beyond the 3-9 line is literally an exercise. I spilled a beer over that crap! Pulley system fixed that but the hat switches would be nice.
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I'd add that you can get higher res and wider FOV in a headset but say with the Pimax you're talking a grand for just the headset and more for the peripherals.
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I'd add that you can get higher res and wider FOV in a headset but say with the Pimax you're talking a grand for just the headset and more for the peripherals.
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Yeah, it's coming. In two more years headsets like those will be $299.
Let me put it this way. In the past, I have argued that Hitech should put in code so that monitor only players should be able to used external views in order to compensate for the advantages that TrackIR and VR have over them. The advantage differential has gotten too large. That would seem perfectly fair to me as a VR players.
$0.02.
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problem is most people don't know about padlock.
trackir and vr helps to track stuff around you but it don't mean a thing if you can't fly or shoot.
there's things you can do that don't cost a dime that will give you an advantage. lower your own engine sounds to begin with, realize that most people are right handed so most of the time they turn in same direction, heard about padlock find out what it is and if it's still available, others figure out on your own.
semp
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In AH2 when I was researching and testing the historic gunsights that are the defaults for AH3 today. I reached a point I could hit fast moving maneuvering planes at will. My FPS was maxed at 60. When AH3 went live, all of my muscle memory shot solutions missed all the time. After 3 years of that I upgraded to a monitor that gives me 165fps 1ms latency in AH3, and I hit at will with the same practiced gun solutions I used in AH2. The very first day I used the monitor every shot I made hit as predicted in my sight picture for the first time in 3 years.