Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: CptTrips on June 03, 2020, 12:17:03 PM
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Split out from 3 hour timer discussion:
HiTech, the Free For All (FFE) area presently available isn't anything remotely like the furball lake experientially. Not-the-least-of-which weirdness is that when you mix human and AI together the humans apparently tend to collaborate against the AI.
Referring back to your earlier point about population, at some stage and for a brief period of AH3 you did have the now FFE (it's PT Corner Spikes) air-spawnable with no AI. Spontaneously it was populated, players started a thread extolling its virtues, how fun it was, the quality of the flying and a good-quality YouTube video was immediately published. You know one of those free and independent promotionals which might make prospective players who were probably watching aviation-related videos to think: "Ooooh, I'd be good at that and would like to try it". Numbers and interest was sufficient to suggest that somewhere like that would probably be a populated arena for at least some of the 24-hour cycle. Besides what does it matter if it didn't / doesn't have high numbers, neither does the TA.
As CptTrips mentioned earlier:
Consider the disposition of the online arenas from the perspective of a new and unindoctrinated player. Due to the present architecture - to have human interaction, you're realistically thrown into the late-war MA of old. That's not to say the ACM is of an intimidating high-level, it's rather the nature of arena itself. It's populated by long-experienced players who are highly attuned to risk assessment, usually fly competitive aircraft in competitive ways, often have long-standing squadmates or wingmen who know exactly how to utilise the arena's facilities to minimise their risk and maximise their danger to an extent new players are incapable of doing or knowing. Your ACM has to be very good to fly (initially) alone and not get swarmed endlessly by vets competing with each other to add a kill to their score. Where can prospective players acquire this? The answer is nowhere in AH3.
There's a big gap between staying engaged / interested long enough to find it a survivable challenge to build enough skill to become a steady subscriber.
Certainly the question of free online combat versus paying for a valid service should be addressed. The old DA / Furball lake (with a proportion of population something like 10%/90% split respectively), was a paid arena and I think that's fair enough. The present MPA is a bit schitzo because a good proportion of new / prospective players go there, but they're hardly equipped to duel. They mill around the FFA fighting the AI which is neither representative nor encouraging. There is no help there, official or otherwise. Neither can you put the AI at a fixed level to satisfy both newcomers and experienced players. It is neither fish nor fowl. There is definately a place for the AI you have devised. I'm not sure that is it. Regardless it is for you to strike the business model balance between 'freeloaders' and 'gateway drug' to facilitate players becoming subscribers. None of us have useful data to help in that regard.
A separate ideation thread ought to be made for what an 'ideal' layout might be if you wanted to have that discussion. Some (but not all :)) of Violator's suggestions have merit. We know that because we did some of those experiments already in private arenas. Of course that's all additional work. An economical first and easy experiment would be to either re-enable the fields at A1, A2 and A3 or as Dolby suggests reboot the old DA as it was, obviously announce the change, and see if a community of players could be recultivated who are not overly fixated with MA score and survival at all costs. That's only engaging to those who've already acquired ACM and AH experience.
Well that's my 50 cents and our lockdown is drawing to a close. Must get back to the potentially paying project work... :)
I think there should be a human only Furball Arena.
I think it should be it's own venue for maximum discoverability. (Replace Steal the Sheep?")
I think a Furball arena provides a quick action fix for vets who might only have a few minutes to play, and for noobs, it's an arena that lowers the cost of dying because you can get back into action again quickly. That speeds up the cycle time so a noob can learn faster and doesn't punish them for learning with another 20 min flight back to a fight in the MA.
Could you migrate the forcefield boundary from WO:P?
I agree it should be over gently rolling terrain for depth perception and the added interest of dodging trees.
I understand the concept of all one side, however that can be confusing to people as you've seen from WO:P FFA area. If you did that, I would make the arena config no icons. So they don't hesitate to shoot at a plane because it has a green icon. The fights would be in close enough proximity that you could get away with it and in that context any other plane you saw was by definition an enemy. If no icons, does that mean no name tags also? That would help with ganging and griefing someone. In this configuration, you really only need one base that everyone spawns at for even more simplicity. It simple has several air spawn launch buttons.
Going way out on a limb...one problem, like the MA, I see it quickly devolving into two or 3 used planes that are maximally optimal in that setup. That's OK but gets stale, but what if every hour it switched plane sets available to spawn? You could do this with a running Staged Mission (No AI) that uses the Dot Cmd events to load a rotating set of arena configs or script files at regular intervals that enables alternating sets of aircraft to be available. So I think you already have that capability built. Rotate Early, Mid, Late War on an hourly basis.
$0.02.
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Here's a recent topic I created about this discussion.
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,398156.msg5277360.html#msg5277360
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Here's a recent topic I created about this discussion.
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,398156.msg5277360.html#msg5277360
I think Easyscore was doing something like this in the Custom Arena wasn't he? I'm not sure if he had all the settings as you describe.
I'd be willing to knock something along your specs and run it off my account 24/7 for a couple of weeks as a test. I'm not really flying now days but still have an account. I have a spare machine I can use.
If you could show you could corral 10-15 players in there on a regular basis, maybe Hitech would be more amenable to something permanent.
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I think Easyscore was doing something like this in the Custom Arena wasn't he? I'm not sure if he had all the settings as you describe.
I'd be willing to knock something along your specs and run it off my account 24/7 for a couple of weeks as a test. I'm not really flying now days but still have an account. I have a spare machine I can use.
If you could show you could corral 10-15 players in there on a regular basis, maybe Hitech would be more amenable to something permanent.
FINALLY someone is doind this. Good luck. I hope it hits the cap so maybe there's some grounds for HT to consider a similar arena that's permanent.
Wiley.
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I can get something up this weekend. I'll start with my 4x4 terrain as a template.
So I propose... (Assuming the config lets me do each)
1. Small Terrain. Euro Summer.
2. Fight over gentle land mass.
3. One side enabled.
4. 3 spaced air spawns at 3k. Also you can take off and land from the one enabled field.
5. All other sides excluded from spawn.
6. No icons. Kill-shooter off.
7. Mid-war fighters only (at least for this initial test. Later I might try the mission swapping plane-set thing/no AI)
8. Arena msg explaining the basic setup.
9. 3200ft downdraft. Might have to get some coaching on arena settings stuff.
10.?
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Id leave icons on personally, and label the arena Free for all. It worked in the h2h days. Icons off would probably be the reason i wouldnt play it, populated or not.
Just an opinion. The reasoning for them be turned off wasnt very strong.
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Id leave icons on personally, and label the arena Free for all. It worked in the h2h days. Icons off would probably be the reason i wouldnt play it, populated or not.
Just an opinion. The reasoning for them be turned off wasnt very strong.
OK. We can try it with them on first.
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I can get something up this weekend. I'll start with my 4x4 terrain as a template.
So I propose... (Assuming the config lets me do each)
1. Small Terrain. Euro Summer.
2. Fight over gentle land mass.
3. One side enabled.
4. 3 spaced air spawns at 3k. Also you can take off and land from the one enabled field.
5. All other sides excluded from spawn.
6. No icons. Kill-shooter off.
7. Mid-war fighters only (at least for this initial test. Later I might try the mission swapping plane-set thing/no AI)
8. Arena msg explaining the basic setup.
9. 3200ft downdraft. Might have to get some coaching on arena settings stuff.
10.?
Awesome! Thanks! Wish I could do this but not there in my life currently.
I think leaving it open 24/7 is the key. All it takes is 3 players to spark more interest for people to join.
I agree with lazer about the icons and the naming.
I think maybe a 5k down draft would be more reasonable. I do like that idea though. Who knows maybe 3200 would work better. You get there quick!
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I've setup an initial prototype.
I don't know if i did all the settings correct. I'll leave it up a couple of days to get some initial feedback if you would give it a try and let me know if something needs tweaking.
:salute
[Edit] BTW, Downdraft layer starts at 4k.
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See rule #4
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ROTFLMAO
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See rule #4
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Jesus Christ.
I said nothing derogatory, and carefully excluded quoting anything derogatory and spent 30 min carefully responding to each important technical point.
But I'm not re-typing it.
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Seriously? That took an hour to research the new arena's configuration, generate those points and go to the trouble of articulating it. Along with my normal sarcastic humour which has not varied since day 1 of coming here, an awful lot of valid points were simultaneously flushed down the toilet. I did not make a copy of that so even PMing it to CptTrips is impossible.
Why was that just done, because some people might get offending over satirically-wrapped dry humour?
Thanks for literally wasting my time while I was trying to help. Just about sums this place up.
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Seriously? That took an hour to research the new arena's configuration, generate those points and go to the trouble of articulating it. Along with my normal sarcastic humour which has not varied since day 1 of coming here, an awful lot of valid points were simultaneously flushed down the toilet. I did not make a copy of that so even PMing it to CptTrips is impossible.
Why was that just done, because some people might get offending over satirically-wrapped dry humour?
Thanks for literally wasting my time while I was trying to help. Just about sums this place up.
Your last paragraph was the reason it was deleted.
HiTech
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Jesus Christ.
I said nothing derogatory, and carefully excluded quoting anything derogatory and spent 30 min carefully responding to each important technical point.
But I'm not re-typing it.
Correct you did nothing wrong.
We never modify a post, it is either deleted or left intact. Once deleted, all quotes of the post also need to be deleted.
And since all quotes need to be deleted it would not be fair to leave the response to the quotes.
HiTech
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I do think a higher wind cap would be more beneficial. 4K is pretty low. I think 6k would be a little better.
I agree with Nrsida about most planes being implemented (enough though it goes against my personal preference.) many players want to practice in late war planes for the MA. So i can see some players not wanting to join because of that. Just throw out the perk planes.
I don't get to play during the week nights, so please keep it up for this weekend and I'll definitely check it out.
:salute
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I do think a higher wind cap would be more beneficial. 4K is pretty low. I think 6k would be a little better.
I agree with Nrsida about most planes being implemented (enough though it goes against my personal preference.) many players want to practice in late war planes for the MA. So i can see some players not wanting to join because of that. Just throw out the perk planes.
I don't get to play during the week nights, so please keep it up for this weekend and I'll definitely check it out.
:salute
How about 8k wind?
Bombers enabled too?
I assume no GV or field guns?
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I do think a higher wind cap would be more beneficial. 4K is pretty low. I think 6k would be a little better.
I agree with Nrsida about most planes being implemented (enough though it goes against my personal preference.) many players want to practice in late war planes for the MA. So i can see some players not wanting to join because of that. Just throw out the perk planes.
I don't get to play during the week nights, so please keep it up for this weekend and I'll definitely check it out.
:salute
How is the stuff your asking for different then simply removing AI?
HiTech
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How is the stuff your asking for different then simply removing AI?
HiTech
Hence a quick and dirty test without putting too much effort in.
It might be obvious that it just ends up in the same place, other than maybe a separate "Furball Arena" link off the main tab being more discoverable than hiding it in an arena that says something else. It can be discussed if that has sufficient separate value.
In my previous removed post, I stated it is not my intention to run this permanently as a Custom Arena. But it was an easy way to quickly throw something up to play with hands on without you having to touch the MP yet or setup any side arena.
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How about 8k wind?
Bombers enabled too?
I assume no GV or field guns?
More planes added.
Downdraft set to 8k.
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How is the stuff your asking for different then simply removing AI?
HiTech
Also, to test if anything that doesn't say "Melee" can get any traffic no matter what you set up.
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How is the stuff your asking for different then simply removing AI?
HiTech
He was setting up a good furball arena. Seems folks are chiming in to make it more like the MA or other current arenas.
4K is plenty of alt to furball.
Now they want LW birds.... but not all LW birds.
Already seeing the problem when you try to please everyone.....
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He was setting up a good furball arena. Seems folks are chiming in to make it more like the MA or other current arenas.
4K is plenty of alt to furball.
Now they want LW birds.... but not all LW birds.
Already seeing the problem when you try to please everyone.....
Well, I asked for chime-in so I'm not complaining. Anything just twiddling settings I'm willing to try. This is just intended to try some ideas, so I'd like to try several configurations.
Now any request to totally make a new terrain from scratch would be a little beyond the scope of this test, but I'll twiddle settings.
I have concerns about just enabling all planes. I suspect in a day it would be all Yak3's and LA7. I don't have anything against those, but they can just get that in the Melee.
My other concern is that the theory of "if you just set it up like such and such, it will be packed with the silent majority that have been waiting for that."
Hmmmm maybe. We see if we can even fill a Custom Arena no matter how you set it up. If I see 10 players in there for a significant amount of time over the weekend, I'll be impressed. Not that any configuration is wrong, it's just that it is almost impossible to get this player base to click on anything other than what they've already been clicking on for 20 years. They login and click on Melee link by rote muscle memory.
Personally, I'd like either a mid war setup or a rotating setup. But that is just me. I have an very low boredom threshold.
But this is a test. I'm willing to try whatever.
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If you wind up with enough people showing up, I expect you'll find it will be fairly similar to monday nights in the AvA especially with a low alt ceiling. People will likely gravitate to the super twisty planes as there's less room to work in the vertical.
That would likely be desirable for many, although sometimes you might get a bit sick of the wall of brewsters and Ki43s. ;)
Wiley.
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He was setting up a good furball arena. Seems folks are chiming in to make it more like the MA or other current arenas.
4K is plenty of alt to furball.
Now they want LW birds.... but not all LW birds.
Already seeing the problem when you try to please everyone.....
Well, I asked for chime-in so I'm not complaining. Anything just twiddling settings I'm willing to try. This is just intended to try some ideas, so I'd like to try several configurations.
Now any request to totally make a new terrain from scratch would be a little beyond the scope of this test, but I'll twiddle settings.
I have concerns about just enabling all planes. I suspect in a day it would be all Yak3's and LA7. I don't have anything against those, but they can just get that in the Melee.
My other concern is that the theory of "if you just set it up like such and such, it will be packed with the silent majority that have been waiting for that."
Hmmmm maybe. We see if we can even fill a Custom Arena no matter how you set it up. If I see 10 players in there for a significant amount of time over the weekend, I'll be impressed. Not that any configuration is wrong, it's just that it is almost impossible to get this player base to click on anything other than what they've already been clicking on for 20 years. They login and click on Melee link by rote muscle memory.
Personally, I'd like either a mid war setup or a rotating setup. But that is just me. I have an very low boredom threshold.
But this is a test. I'm willing to try whatever.
In some regards I do think some of those planes like ki43s, brews, spit16s, la7s and yak3s should be disabled, maybe even the a6m2. Those planes are tiring to fight and we don't need runners.
I'm all for midwar planes only honestly... its just I do think it might limit players in the short run before it gets popular.
Can't always make everyone happy I guess.. will just have to see how it goes.
How is the stuff your asking for different then simply removing AI?
HiTech
Wellllll, honestly and its just my opinion, I'm not a fan of the match play map for furballing. I think its one of the problems even with TAs FFA. Its just too big.
I think the match play would work great on its own, where you can fight AI, and you can have team duels, or 1v1 duels. I think the map works great for that. There just needs to be some messaging on the MOTD so people know how it all works.
I just dont think it works great for free fight furballing because there is so much going on. which is why i think having a fighter bowl type arena strictly designed for quick action fights on a small map would lure in more players who know where to take off and know where the fight is.
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In some regards I do think some of those planes like ki43s, brews, spit16s, la7s and yak3s should be disabled, maybe even the a6m2. Those planes are tiring to fight and we don't need runners.
I'm all for midwar planes only honestly... its just I do think it might limit players in the short run before it gets popular.
Well, at some point someone will have to just write down the list for me. :rofl
Of course you'll also have those who throw a fit that they can't fly their EW/MW plane fairly without getting smothered by late war monsters wanting the easy kill.
What if I could rig up a rotation so that it swapped the plane set every hour? LW, MW, EW? Is that worth researching? Or would that just piss off everyone? :rofl
It may be moot. I haven't seen two people in there simultaneously yet. ;)
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Well, at some point someone will have to just write down the list for me. :rofl
Of course you'll also have those who throw a fit that they can't fly their EW/MW plane fairly without getting smothered by late war monsters wanting the easy kill.
What if I could rig up a rotation so that it swapped the plane set every hour? LW, MW, EW? Is that worth researching? Or would that just piss off everyone? :rofl
It may be moot. I haven't seen two people in there simultaneously yet. ;)
Might consider doing some kind of scheduled thing like MNM, only not on Mondays. Maybe Wednesday Whimsy? It being a designated time might get more people to show up at once.
Wiley.
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Might consider doing some kind of scheduled thing like MNM, only not on Mondays. Maybe Wednesday Whimsy? It being a designated time might get more people to show up at once.
Wiley.
Maybe. But that would just make more sense for the AvA guys to do.
Maybe that is just the answer. Does anyone go into the AvA anymore except for MNM? Maybe they should just extend it and have "Every Night Madness" and they become the Furball Arena? ;)
I guess there is that Tank Night occasionally. Maybe one night of "Every Night Madness" over the week is "Tank Madness Night"?
:noid
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Maybe. But that would just make more sense for the AvA guys to do.
Maybe that is just the answer. Does anyone go into the AvA anymore except for MNM? Maybe they should just extend it and have "Every Night Madness" and they become the Furball Arena? ;)
I guess there is that Tank Night occasionally. Maybe one night of "Every Night Madness" over the week is "Tank Madness Night"?
:noid
The difference would be you could tweak your own settings. MNM's got fairly specific settings. 1000 yard enemy icons, fog, the "silly" highrise buildings, low fuel burn.
Oh, that's one thing I'd suggest for the furball arena. 1.0 fuel burn so people can fly at 25%.
Having the AVA using MNM settings every day, I don't think you'd get people using it. To me MNM is like FSO. You get more people showing because you know it's scheduled.
MNM fluctuates between 10-25 people over the course of the hour and a half or so I stick around. It's enough to keep it exciting, with 25 people it's kind of nuts, total knife fight in a phone booth.
Don't know what I'd do if I were you. There are so many different opinions about what would make a good furball arena, and many people have "hard pass" settings. Icons for example. Late war planes for another.
I think an RPS would just piss a lot of people off, not a lot of people like to switch planes that much. It would also just mean each set would have its best 3 planes for the job.
Wiley.
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Don't know what I'd do if I were you. There are so many different opinions about what would make a good furball arena, and many people have "hard pass" settings.
Yeah, well, I don't really have a dog in the fight. I was just someone who was capable to setup a quick test environment to allow DmnSlyer and others test out some of their theories rather than try and convince Hitech to make changes to the MP without any concrete evidence.
I don't think a Furball arena is too bad an idea. I used to occasionally have 30 min of fun in the old one. That was about how long it took me to get bored. That's not a bad thing. I can go play WW1WF for about 30 min too. Or dink making myself some custom AI missions to play offline. Nowadays, 30 min is about my boredom threshold for everything. Except maybe BF4. ;)
I'm not sure Hitech should remove the AI from the one in the MP. There may not always be people around and a player could at least go in there and Furball the AI for a bit late at night.
$0.02.
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Lets see what happens with it this weekend. I'll pop on late tomorrow night when I normally play. I think if we got 3-5 players in there it would start to pick up some pace.
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Lets see what happens with it this weekend. I'll pop on late tomorrow night when I normally play. I think if we got 3-5 players in there it would start to pick up some pace.
Yep. I'm going out of town for a couple of days starting Sat. I'll just leave it up. When I get beack we can discuss if further test iterations are useful.
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I have dipped in and out of both threads associated with this topic.
AH3 Did not create any declining numbers. AH Numbers started shrinking in Feb of 2009. The dueling arena used to be populated but ah3 had no effect on it. When the changes were made to match play, the dueling arena was completely empty. So why would I believe a return to a setup that was always empty not always be empty now?
HiTech
HiTech you appear to be able to pull usage stats so maybe you can tell if the match play arena is more or less used than the old DA. That would be my starting point for a potential return to that setup (minus the water). Now, on that point, my experience (memory is not great but I believe this to be the case) was that when AH3 came out the water lacked any depth perception and so it was impossible to determine if you were 2 feet or 200 feet off the waves. The result was a lot of hard splashdowns and frustration that perhaps lead to people not going there as much.
When was the last time you were in there?
Because the AI are only in p51s, and they do not fly very well. Plus only 2 will ever attack you at one time?
The change was made in February.
HiTech
I actually LOL'd when I read this. HiTech, you created what has got to be possibly the worst WW2 flying experience ever with the crazy AI and the very very odd flight model. We tried it, several times. I tried it maybe 10 times and it was terrible. Are you really surprised we did not go back in there for months and months? I cannot imagine what someone new to AH would have thought but if your long time clients never went back I assume the new blood walked away. The addition of AI was brilliant and IMO could have been a godsend in the quiet times. Getting fighter action against AI would have been so much fun but then it turned out to be so far from reality it was a real turn off. I can only imagine your mind went back to those heady days of Air Warrior and the Deathstar B17's. Thing is back then it was new to everyone and the flight model was secondary to the fun of being online and doing that sort of thing.
I do think the Ai aspect is worth exploring though, even incorporating it into the MA for buffs and fighters but they have to be within the same flight model and skill vector as your average player.
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I do think the Ai aspect is worth exploring though, even incorporating it into the MA for buffs and fighters but they have to be within the same flight model and skill vector as your average player.
Have you tried the Offline 4x4 Dogfight missions I made?
I hand tweaked those to what I thought was reasonable. Maybe on the easy side, because I wanted them to be used my noobs for practice.
I definitely found AI had to be hand tweaked to get the feel I wanted. And per aircraft type. I had to tweak a I-16 to different settings than a P-51 to get effect I wanted.
:salute
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So I ran it pretty 24/7 from last Thurs. through the weekend.
I monitored it from time to time. I saw a few people pop in. A couple of you got some fights going. The few that tried it seemed to like it, but not a lot of interest was shown to try it.
It's somewhat hidden on the Player tab, but this thread pointed out where it was, and to make sure, I posted a notice on the General forum so we at least knew a number of people were aware of it.
I don't think the idea was bad. I think it was a reasonable setup for furballing. I think it would work, though we could debate plane-sets, etc. So there might be tweaks to the arrangement and settings to optimize it, but optimization wasn't the problem. The setup makes no difference if no one will go in.
Would it make a difference if I left it up a month? <Shrug.> Would it make a difference if it was a link off the front tab? <Shrug.>
I remember there used to be a constant population of regulars at the furball lake back in 2010-11. But this is not the same community we had in 2010. A lot of those people are not here, so maybe you can't re-capture the past.
If there is something else specific you want me to try still, we can. Otherwise I don't see any further advantage of continuing the test.
I think you are just hitting the Melee wall. Habit is just too ingrained. It's almost impossible to get them to click on anything else.
Like why can't the AvA not generate any traffic at all? I understand MNM and Tank Night are fun, but honestly, that really isn't what the mandate of the Ava was supposed to be. It seems to me those would more logically just be run in the SEA. I'm not against those events, it just points out a mystery on why something like even the AvA (in a community supposedly of WWII enthusiast) can't pull even a portion of the traffic from the Melee except for an occasional event that only barely has anything to do with AvA. You'd think all those guys who currently only play Scenarios and FSO and eschew the Melee might at least keep a presence there in between events. :headscratch:
Anyway... on the Furball Arena...
Maybe if you was run on a special night, or on Sunday afternoons or something at a fixed time, you could market it and drum up a collection of players would would show up for that as regulars. That is not an effort I'm interested in pursuing, but if one of want to pursue it, I will teach you to fish rather than giving you a fish. ;)
The terrain is loaded on the server. (Actually I have a new version with a few final teaks DemnSlyr suggested.) If DemnSlyr or Bixbie, or someone was interested in grabbing this and running with it and try and build it up, I can get you the arena config files and make you a step-by-step instructions on how to set it up and run it in your own Custom Arena when you want. I'm not interested in taking that on, but I will help one of you take it over if you want to continue it. Maybe you can build a Sunday afternoon Furball club or something.
Any takers?
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I never checked it out. It was well intentioned but some folks just pushed it out from the basic furball setup.
I figured they might show up to fill it.
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I never checked it out. It was well intentioned but some folks just pushed it out from the basic furball setup.
I figured they might show up to fill it.
well, what constitutes the "Basic Furball Setup"?
If you were configuring it, what would it look like?
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Honestly I just feel like it wasn't seen by most because its on a different tab and most people don't even see those tabs..
All it takes is for 3-4 people to be in there before 5-10 show up. I just feel like if the "all" tab isnt the default, than 95% of the players won't see it before they click on the MA.
I didn't get to play the nights this weekend. I really only get a few hours if I am lucky to play on the weekends. I just dont have the time to keep a custom MA open.
Id say keep it open for another 2 weeks. Perhaps it just needs to gain some popularity thru word of mouth or something. Once we get some regulars who are in there quite a bit, then the #s will grow as there will always be players in there.
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Honestly I just feel like it wasn't seen by most because its on a different tab and most people don't even see those tabs..
That definitely is a factor. I saw one player post recently who had been here since 2008 and didn't even know we had Custom Arena or what they were. ;)
But this thread had 296 views and the thread in the general had 211 views. With repeat traffic, I'd assume at least 80 people know that arena was going to be up all weekend and where to go find it. So that would argue toward low interest.
Of course timing is everything. Players may have gone over to the tab and saw there were no other players based on the count listing and never even click on it. So there you have the chicken or the egg paradox. No one goes in, because no one is in. And no one is in because no one goes in.
That is sort of what I was trying to defeat with the idea of AI augmented arena. So a single player could go in and have stuff to do whether other players were in there yet or not. So maybe Hitech has the right idea of having AI until the second person logs in. So if Hitech just added that logic to MP is that enough?
Personally, I had a hard time understanding what was going on in the MP arena. It wasn't clear what you were supposed to do or why. And there were some weird behaviors. If seemed like an awkward interface. But hey, different strokes, different folks.
Id say keep it open for another 2 weeks. Perhaps it just needs to gain some popularity thru word of mouth or something. Once we get some regulars who are in there quite a bit, then the #s will grow as there will always be players in there.
Well I'll try and keep it running a bit longer. I don't know if that will be two weeks. Damn thing keeps kicking me off occasionally with a "Host Connection Lost" and I either have to catch that immediately and just back in, or restart it up and reconfigure again. That might get old baby sitting it every second before two more weeks. ;)
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well, what constitutes the "Basic Furball Setup"?
If you were configuring it, what would it look like?
Take off and fight. Keep it low so no b&z. Maybe 2 bases close together. They can be the same side. Griever can't cover 2 bases.
Just seemed folks talked about close in furballing and then want more room to do it in.
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Take off and fight. Keep it low so no b&z. Maybe 2 bases close together. They can be the same side. Griever can't cover 2 bases.
Just seemed folks talked about close in furballing and then want more room to do it in.
That'd be fine by me. It'd be easy to configure. I've already added a second base, I just take off the air spawns.
4k cap?
But would that have changed how many people went into the arena? Whats the point if no one goes in?
You think they didn't go in because of the configuration?
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OK. We ran the other configuration since last Thurs.
So I've set it up as Shuffler suggested and we can try that a while. We are here to test stuff.
Two fields, no air spawn. Alt cap at 6k, but the fields are at 1k so the alt cap is ~5k AGL.
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Just finished up MNM.
Will check it out tomorrow evening myself, probably around 7 or so I should be there.
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Hello Shuffler. Just left MNM. was fun.
I'll be in CptTrips furball arena tomorrow night also. Nice arena , just needs people.
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I will see you there.... :D
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the chicken or the egg paradox.
The egg came first by millions of years, thanks to reptiles :old:
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I am in the arena....
I was a little latter than I figured on being.
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The egg came first by millions of years, thanks to reptiles :old:
HA.... the yolks on you.
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Reptiles is flooring with a reputation.
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OK left the arena. Spent just over 15 minutes circling map. No one there.
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OK left the arena. Spent just over 15 minutes circling map. No one there.
Exactly.
I'll leave that configuration up through the weekend, then I think that concludes the test.
:salute
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Yes the fact is that even the people who know it is there do not want to go there.
Of course not everyone can fly every night so who knows.
MNM is rocking so those of us who can make it Mondays have that.
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I was in last night from 6:50 pm until 7:35 pm Eastern time. Was all alone.
Are you in a different time zone?
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Yes the fact is that even the people who know it is there do not want to go there.
Yep. That is what a test is for.
We tried it with what DemnSlyr thought would be an idea configuration, and we tried it on what you thought it should be. Neither made a difference to the traffic.
Would it fair better if it was setup permanently and a link on the front tab? Hmmm maybe. It's not certain. We certainly didn't prove there was a community of furballers just chomping at the bit for a venue.
Bottom line is, it's not the same community of people now than it was back when Furball Lake was a thing. So maybe that experience can not be easily recreated.
I had to laugh at the dance you and Bixby did. That is so typical of a side arena trying to get traction. Someone goes in and no one is there. They fly around a bit but no one is there so they leave. 10 minutes later someone else comes in, but no one is there and there is nothing to do. So they fly circles for a bit then leave. Other look later and see no population in that arena, so they don't bother even going in. LoL.
WW1WF still gets a trickle of traffic, but it is specifically design so that no other players are required. I still see a couple of regulars in there periodically like Pops04 and some others, so I guess repeat customers means they get some enjoyment out of it.
Any side arena that is totally dependent on herding in human cats, is very hard to sustain on a continuing basis when the easier path of clicking on the Melee button is there.
I still cannot fathom why in a community of "historical enthusiasts" the AvA can't at least put 10 players in a historical setup on most night. But the pull of the Melee dark side is strong. ;) I'd be interested to know why the AvA stays empty except for a couple of non-historical events. You can't capture bases there right? Is it just that? Why isn't that the place that guys who prefer historical Scenarios hang out in-between events?
Bixby, if you are interested in picking it up and running it on some kind of basis to try and drum up a clientele, I'll help you get setup. Let me know if you are interested.
:salute
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I was in last night from 6:50 pm until 7:35 pm Eastern time. Was all alone.
Are you in a different time zone?
Central time. I was posting here the whole time I was flying in there.
I didn't even think about you being in a different zone.... lol
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Yep. That is what a test is for.
We tried it with what DemnSlyr thought would be an idea configuration, and we tried it on what you thought it should be. Neither made a difference to the traffic.
Would it fair better if it was setup permanently and a link on the front tab? Hmmm maybe. It's not certain. We certainly didn't prove there was a community of furballers just chomping at the bit for a venue.
Bottom line is, it's not the same community of people now than it was back when Furball Lake was a thing. So maybe that experience can not be easily recreated.
I had to laugh at the dance you and Bixby did. That is so typical of a side arena trying to get traction. Someone goes in and no one is there. They fly around a bit but no one is there so they leave. 10 minutes later someone else comes in, but no one is there and there is nothing to do. So they fly circles for a bit then leave. Other look later and see no population in that arena, so they don't bother even going in. LoL.
WW1WF still gets a trickle of traffic, but it is specifically design so that no other players are required. I still see a couple of regulars in there periodically like Pops04 and some others, so I guess repeat customers means they get some enjoyment out of it.
Any side arena that is totally dependent on herding in human cats, is very hard to sustain on a continuing basis when the easier path of clicking on the Melee button is there.
I still cannot fathom why in a community of "historical enthusiasts" the AvA can't at least put 10 players in a historical setup on most night. But the pull of the Melee dark side is strong. ;) I'd be interested to know why the AvA stays empty except for a couple of non-historical events. You can't capture bases there right? Is it just that? Why isn't that the place that guys who prefer historical Scenarios hang out in-between events?
Bixby, if you are interested in picking it up and running it on some kind of basis to try and drum up a clientele, I'll help you get setup. Let me know if you are interested.
:salute
Actually the 8k setup is not bad for that arena as there is some nice hills and such. I just figured you don't want a bunch of high folks as it takes longer to fight.
I liked the rolling hills. Nice touch.
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I still cannot fathom why in a community of "historical enthusiasts" the AvA can't at least put 10 players in a historical setup on most night. But the pull of the Melee dark side is strong. ;) I'd be interested to know why the AvA stays empty except for a couple of non-historical events. You can't capture bases there right? Is it just that? Why isn't that the place that guys who prefer historical Scenarios hang out in-between events?
Far as I know, bases are capturable. It used to be in the backwhen, never saw anything to indicate that changed. I don't know why the AvA doesn't get traffic, although I'm not sure what the current icon settings are either. I know I hate no enemy icons and for a while long ago that was how it was, so I never bothered going in there. At the end of the day there aren't enough people to support 2 ongoing war arenas IMO.
With your test arena, if you want to get people in to try it out what I would suggest is schedule something in there. Like you said, people miss each other 10 minutes at a time on sporadic nights but if you've got something like Wednesday Whimsy where you and some other people are going to be in there at 9 Eastern, and you flog the hell out of it on channels and the board, you might get enough people in to have some fun and get some feedback. I'm sure the feedback will be cohesive and it will be easy to come to a consensus. :D
MNM gets around 15-20 people in it every Monday and that's enough to make it nuts. 10 or so is enough to keep it fun.
Bixby, if you are interested in picking it up and running it on some kind of basis to try and drum up a clientele, I'll help you get setup. Let me know if you are interested.
:salute
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Actually the 8k setup is not bad for that arena as there is some nice hills and such. I just figured you don't want a bunch of high folks as it takes longer to fight.
I liked the rolling hills. Nice touch.
Well, that takes a second to tweak. It's arena config so no terrain modification needed. 8k would give a 7 AGL cap. Or maybe just no cap. I think the dynamics of furballing would create it's own natural limit.
It's a moot point if it's empty though. ;)
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Well, that takes a second to tweak. It's arena config so no terrain modification needed. 8k would give a 7 AGL cap. Or maybe just no cap. I think the dynamics of furballing would create it's own natural limit.
It's a moot point if it's empty though. ;)
I think an alt cap is a good idea (possibly necessary) for a furball arena.
If you've got a furball with no alt cap, there will be someone who climbs above the furball so they can pick it. Then there will be someone who climbs to go after the guy that's doing that, and when he doesn't find the other side's picker he will start picking. Then it snowballs and pretty soon nobody's coming in under 10k. You can watch that happen in the MA all the time.
Wiley.
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Far as I know, bases are capturable. It used to be in the backwhen, never saw anything to indicate that changed. I don't know why the AvA doesn't get traffic, although I'm not sure what the current icon settings are either. I know I hate no enemy icons and for a while long ago that was how it was, so I never bothered going in there. At the end of the day there aren't enough people to support 2 ongoing war arenas IMO.
Except that should appeal to the Scenario/FSO only guys who don't bother with the Melee. Those are players already not going into the Melee.
Of course, I myself haven't gone in there either (there is no one in there! :rofl), so I may be out of date. I did go though a long chain of forum posts following the history of the arena back when I was researching a WWII AI arena for ideas. What a saga. I got caught up in it like reading a Soap Opera script. :rofl
I think any kind of no icon baloney is just a dead-end. Especially with the advent of VR, which has great depth perception, but very low resolution. They should use Scenario/FSO vis range and icon settings. If nothing else to appeal to the Scenario guys as much as possible.
I don't know how they do their maps, but often full scale historical maps would have too long transit times. I think you'd have to allow historical "inspired" but optimized maps or liberal use of air spawns to keep it reasonable. 5 minute spawn to fun is about my personal limit for a nightly arena fun, unless I'm playing is a true Historical full-scale Scenario. Then I tolerate long boring flights.
I'd love to see a nightly 3 hour mini-Scenario run in the AvA. No big planning thing. Just a command structure with some ad hoc coordination, walk on's that can be plugged in as they arrive. I hate registering and committing to something months in advance. I hate having to arrive at an exact time. Something a little lighter, 4-5 days a week, walk on and get plugged in, coordinate on a specified goal. Scenario vis settings. That would be fun to me.
With your test arena, if you want to get people in to try it out what I would suggest is schedule something in there. Like you said, people miss each other 10 minutes at a time on sporadic nights but if you've got something like Wednesday Whimsy where you and some other people are going to be in there at 9 Eastern, and you flog the hell out of it on channels and the board, you might get enough people in to have some fun and get some feedback. I'm sure the feedback will be cohesive and it will be easy to come to a consensus. :D
MNM gets around 15-20 people in it every Monday and that's enough to make it nuts. 10 or so is enough to keep it fun.
You might be right, but that is not what I can commit to. If someone wanted to run with it, I'd help them get setup.
:salute
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Except that should appeal to the Scenario/FSO only guys who don't bother with the Melee. Those are players already not going into the Melee.
It seems to me there are people that pretty much only fly FSO/Scenarios. I know when I was in WBs there was a pretty good chunk of people who literally ONLY had a WBs account for the S3. 3 hours Sunday nights, never saw them in the main arenas.
I suspect there are a fair number who are pretty much like that here. I know I often treat the MA as practice for FSO. I quite often fly the ride of the week if I haven't flown it in a while. I'm just not that invested in what's going on in the MA beyond flying for fun.
Of course, I myself haven't gone in there either (there is no one in there! :rofl), so I may be out of date. I did go though a long chain of forum posts following the history of the arena back when I was researching a WWII AI arena for ideas. What a saga. I got caught up in it like reading a Soap Opera script. :rofl
I think any kind of no icon baloney is just a dead-end. Especially with the advent of VR, which has great depth perception, but very low resolution. They should use Scenario/FSO vis range and icon settings. If nothing else to appeal to the Scenario guys as much as possible.
I remember some of the drama I was here for. Icon settings are a hot button for many people and it can cause people who would be there often with the right settings for them to not go because of them.
I don't know how they do their maps, but often full scale historical maps would have too long transit times. I think you'd have to allow historical "inspired" but optimized maps or liberal use of air spawns to keep it reasonable. 5 minute spawn to fun is about my personal limit for a nightly arena fun, unless I'm playing is a true Historical full-scale Scenario. Then I tolerate long boring flights.
I'd love to see a nightly 3 hour mini-Scenario run in the AvA. No big planning thing. Just a command structure with some ad hoc coordination, walk on's that can be plugged in as they arrive. I hate registering and committing to something months in advance. I hate having to arrive at an exact time. Something a little lighter, 4-5 days a week, walk on and get plugged in, coordinate on a specified goal. Scenario vis settings. That would be fun to me.
In an ideal world, it'd be cool. Problem is that command structure would need to be there all evening.
Wiley.
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Except that should appeal to the Scenario/FSO only guys who don't bother with the Melee. Those are players already not going into the Melee.
Of course, I myself haven't gone in there either (there is no one in there! :rofl), so I may be out of date. I did go though a long chain of forum posts following the history of the arena back when I was researching a WWII AI arena for ideas. What a saga. I got caught up in it like reading a Soap Opera script. :rofl
I think any kind of no icon baloney is just a dead-end. Especially with the advent of VR, which has great depth perception, but very low resolution. They should use Scenario/FSO vis range and icon settings. If nothing else to appeal to the Scenario guys as much as possible.
I don't know how they do their maps, but often full scale historical maps would have too long transit times. I think you'd have to allow historical "inspired" but optimized maps or liberal use of air spawns to keep it reasonable. 5 minute spawn to fun is about my personal limit for a nightly arena fun, unless I'm playing is a true Historical full-scale Scenario. Then I tolerate long boring flights.
I'd love to see a nightly 3 hour mini-Scenario run in the AvA. No big planning thing. Just a command structure with some ad hoc coordination, walk on's that can be plugged in as they arrive. I hate registering and committing to something months in advance. I hate having to arrive at an exact time. Something a little lighter, 4-5 days a week, walk on and get plugged in, coordinate on a specified goal. Scenario vis settings. That would be fun to me.
You might be right, but that is not what I can commit to. If someone wanted to run with it, I'd help them get setup.
:salute
You are correct in that all SEA terrains are 1:1 or pretty close to it.
I think gone are the days where people enjoy the DGS or BoG style missions where you end up completely immersed in your squad, plane, the frame. An hour of tracking bombers as they rumble toward Berlin, and eventually you finally get combat. Even in Scenario airspawns are used to speed action up (which I don't necessarily like or dislike) but sometimes I feel it lacks the immersion that some events used to have. In Der Grosse Schlag, I flew with the 474th FG where we filled up 3 entire fighter squadrons of P-38s (32 people, with folks fighting over slots). Now, I might even switch aircraft mid-Scenario frame to help out another group. Yep...gone are those days.
Your 3 hour mini-scenario sounds like what Snapshot used to be on Wednesday/Thursday. An hour or two with some basic objective for both sides. Usually a CO would step up on each side and try to organize everyone, but it was pretty loose in terms of structure. I would say it falls between Friday Squad Ops and Combat Challenge in terms of gameplay. We've toyed with bringing it back perhaps on a weekend or something, but interest is always the issue.
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I'd love to see a nightly 3 hour mini-Scenario run in the AvA.
^This!^ :D :cheers:
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You are correct in that all SEA terrains are 1:1 or pretty close to it.
I think gone are the days where people enjoy the DGS or BoG style missions where you end up completely immersed in your squad, plane, the frame.
I've taken a break from scenarios the last little while, but I have REALLY loved the 12 hour scenarios I've been in. Best online gaming experiences of my life.
Wiley.
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You are correct in that all SEA terrains are 1:1 or pretty close to it.
Understand, I make a distinction between a true full-scale historical Scenario, and what I'm willing to do for just an evenings fun.
In a Scenario, I'm all in. I want to relive to whole thing. I'll take long flights and boring patrols. It's not my favorite part, but I don't feel necessarily cheated. I'm mentally prepared for that and I only do those every so often.
I have totally different expectations for a normal evenings fun. It's not 1995 anymore, where I'm in awe merely at the fact I can fly though this 3d world with people from all over the world online. Yawn. OK. That newness has worn off. The mere fact that online gaming is possible is not enough to hold my interest any more. I get that part, I need some action.
And my life is different now days. I am very busy, not retired, and only have limited amount I can periodically dedicate to gaming. I need a gaming experience that makes respectful use of my time.
The great Sid Meier once said "simulate the fun part, and throw away the rest." Or something like that. Most of the time, a 20 minute climb out on auto-pilot adds nothing to my fun. There is nothing intriguing about that anymore. An occasional, true historical reenactment, would be a rare exception. But I wouldn't have time for that very often.
Your 3 hour mini-scenario sounds like what Snapshot used to be on Wednesday/Thursday. An hour or two with some basic objective for both sides. Usually a CO would step up on each side and try to organize everyone, but it was pretty loose in terms of structure. I would say it falls between Friday Squad Ops and Combat Challenge in terms of gameplay. We've toyed with bringing it back perhaps on a weekend or something, but interest is always the issue.
Yes. Herding cats is always the problem. ;) To me that sounds awesome. I enjoyed the Scenarios, but I can't often plan and commit to something months in advance, and am most often busy on weekends.
I was tempted by FSO, Friday works better for me (Tues-Thurs is ideal for my personal schedule though). but I still have commitment issues. I can't always guarantee to be there every Fri for a month. I can't always guarantee to be there at a exact starting time. Having something running that I know I could drop in as a walk on when and if it is convenient and get placed where they need me would be ideal, if not practical. ;) When I do play though, I like some structure, I like working with a team on a specific goal with defined victory conditions achievable within a specific time frame. So, the random meandering, maybe drags on a week and finishes in Euro time when I never see it, Melee, is less satisfying to me.
I think you get hoards in the Melee partly because people desire a structure whether they realize it or not, since there usually is none, they will clump up into something that sorta feels like it has a purpose because it is better that wandering around pointlessly. But it becomes one hoard because there in no one coordinating instead of someone directing, ok you 5 guys go there and 6 of you go take the port. You four go patrol this sector they might be trying to flank us.
I know everyone gets tire of me talking about Battlefield, and I'm sure it activates certain peoples knee-jerk fanboi defense mechanisms, but I've spent 95% of my gaming time since 2000ish playing either AH or BF. So I can't help but continually compare and contrast there various design decisions and how they effect gameplay experience.
First, I like the low commitment, respectful use of my time. I can start it up and drop in when ever I please and be in action quickly, and the action is intense (unless I want to take it easy then I snipe so options), and consistent and lasts as long as I want to stay logged on.
But the other less obvious thing I love about it is how it handles it's team/squad dynamics. It's a great mix of sandbox and structure.
By default, when you enter a game you get dropped into a ad hoc "squad". You have to take an extra step to unjoin and be a lone wolf. By default it drops you into a squad.
You can switch to a different squad if you don't like that one, or form your own, or unjoin all and just lone wolf. (I sometimes do that when sniping because it is annoying to have a squadie spawn on you and start stupidly raking off machine gun fire from your sniper hide. Uhhhh dude. Can you go somewhere else and do that? I'm trying to be like stealthy and stuff. :rofl)
But most often the squad thing works great. Most people will instantly start coop'ing and playing the objective. The squad leader has tools for easily marking targets and objectives and there are point incentives for everyone to comply, but even so it is just more enjoyable everyone working toward a series of mini-goals that lead to a team win in a known time frame. Those games last about 30-45 minutes. That's too short for AH, but 2-3 hours sounds about right.
There is something about that combination of action, structure, goal orientation, team/cooperation, clear victory conditions that are achievable in a completable time frame... its like crack-cocaine. Then the map changes and you are like "Oh shoot, I love this map, do I have time for one more?"
If its going to drag on for a week, there is no sense of being near the end, and little "Oh we're almost there!". That happens, but how often. How often does the map get won by some randoms and you weren't there for it. Knowing you'll probably never see the victory makes it feel less important. It's just a pointless treadmill then.
I was really hoping the WO:P was going to adopt a more BF structure, but it looks like it is going a different design direction.
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I was tempted by FSO, Friday works better for me (Tues-Thurs is ideal for my personal schedule though). but I still have commitment issues. I can't always guarantee to be there every Fri for a month. I can't always guarantee to be there at a exact starting time. Having something running that I know I could drop in as a walk on when and if it is convenient and get placed where they need me would be ideal, if not practical. ;) When I do play though, I like some structure, I like working with a team on a specific goal with defined victory conditions withing a specific time frame. So, the random meandering, maybe drags on a week and finishes in Euro time when I never see it, Melee, is less satisfying to me.
I know everyone gets tire of me talking about Battlefield, and I'm sure it activates certain peoples knee-jerk fanboi defense mechanisms, but I've spent 95% of my gaming time since 2000ish playing either AH or BF. So I can't help but continually compare and contrast there various design decisions and how they effect gameplay experience.
I would try FSO, most squads would take you in and while the squad has a commitment number to abide by, it's semi-flexible and real life always comes before pixel games.
FSO too is much simpler than it used to be. What used to be 3-4 objectives per side is down to 1 per side (and sometimes 1 objective total in an attack only/defend only setup). But, it still has the structure and immersion that people enjoy.
I like Battlefield, my personal favorite is BC2. BF has a great balance of coordination, action, speed, etc. Heroes & Generals is one of those games that does the same - it has the tactical aspect as well as the basic FPS aspect.
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By default, when you enter a game you get dropped into a ad hoc "squad". You have to take an extra step to unjoin and be a lone wolf. By default it drops you into a squad.
You can swtich to a different squad if you don't like that one, or form your own, or unjoin all and just lone wolf. (I sometimes do that when sniping because it is annoying to have a squadie spawn on you and start stupidly raking off machine gun fire from your sniper hide. Uhhhh dude. Can you go somewhere else and do that? I'm trying to be like stealthy and stuff. :rofl)
Interesting that the squads are optional. I've never enjoyed the team games that put you in a subgroup with a bunch of randoms in some kind of loose command structure. They're either even worse at the game than me, or they're so far along the learning curve I'm lost. If I had a group of people I played stuff like that with on a regular basis I'd likely have a way different opinion of that kind of gameplay but it's not interesting enough to me to invest the time.
Wiley.
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I would try FSO, most squads would take you in and while the squad has a commitment number to abide by, it's semi-flexible and real life always comes before pixel games.
FSO too is much simpler than it used to be. What used to be 3-4 objectives per side is down to 1 per side (and sometimes 1 objective total in an attack only/defend only setup). But, it still has the structure and immersion that people enjoy.
I was very tempted. But, often I'm already heading out to my land on Fri night and am gone the weekend. Maybe this Winter.
I like Battlefield, my personal favorite is BC2. BF has a great balance of coordination, action, speed, etc. Heroes & Generals is one of those games that does the same - it has the tactical aspect as well as the basic FPS aspect.
My online gaming started mainly with AH.
Then BF 1942 hit. I got sucked into that a while.
Then I did AH some more.
Then I got sucked into BF3 then BF4. BF4 had a ruff start but has evolved into perfection IMHO.
Never got into Hardline.
Came back and started piddling with AH and AI stuff.
I play BF4 on occasion. Some BF1 (it's ok.)
I didn't like COD:MW. BF5 was ....unsatisfying.
I'd love to find some AH guys who'd like to play BF4 one night a week as a squad. Just sayin. ;)
:salute
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Interesting that the squads are optional. I've never enjoyed the team games that put you in a subgroup with a bunch of randoms in some kind of loose command structure. They're either even worse at the game than me, or they're so far along the learning curve I'm lost. If I had a group of people I played stuff like that with on a regular basis I'd likely have a way different opinion of that kind of gameplay but it's not interesting enough to me to invest the time.
Wiley.
Random squads are often hit or miss. If I'm running and gunning I still prefer a average squad rather than lone wolf. If I'm in a sniping mood, I almost always go lone wolf, unless I get a random hair and want to play crazy close-in aggressive recon ( a whole different skillset). As a sniper, I'm not much good at too close or too far. I like medium.
I used to love playing medic. I generally looks at what the others in the squad are running and fill a gap. Combine arms with each class covered tends to be most successful. Rock, paper, scissors. Make sure you have one of each. ;)
If the random squad totally pisses me off, I'll swap around and check each squads rankings. If I can't handle a squad of little Jimmies, I'll find a slot on a squad of 150 lvl Generals and grovel at the feet and run behind them dropping health packs. ;) I don't even have to get kills. Just supporting the attack and reviving and dropping health so better shooters can take flags is satisfying.
If I can't find descent squad, I drop out and go lone wolf and snipe. Sometimes I get in a weird mood and get six-pack and I never even shoot. I just perch and watch the hilarity ensure through my scope. Sometimes just conitnually spotting guys is as deadly as shooting them yourself. Especially if you see someone trying to be sneaky. :rofl
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I still cannot fathom why in a community of "historical enthusiasts" the AvA can't at least put 10 players in a historical setup on most night. But the pull of the Melee dark side is strong. ;) I'd be interested to know why the AvA stays empty except for a couple of non-historical events. You can't capture bases there right? Is it just that? Why isn't that the place that guys who prefer historical Scenarios hang out in-between events?
The question has been debated for years, with no consensus answer. Easiest thing is to say: Why don’t you fly there? The typical answer is that no one else is there when I log in. It doesn’t take many; as Wiley says, 10 makes for a good fight when there are two sides and the bases are close.
If the AvA was empty, I used to just announce in the MA that I was headed to the AvA, and that would bring people looking for an easy kill. It hasn’t worked in quite some time, though, and is more difficult with the current text buffer.
As you say, though, the AvA should be the preferred arena for this bunch.
- oldman
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Why don’t you fly there?
Well, if there are no icons, I'm out.
If it is a 15 minute flight to get to action, I'm out.
If it is empty, I'm out. ;)
:neener:
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Well, if there are no icons, I'm out.
If it is a 15 minute flight to get to action, I'm out.
If it is empty, I'm out.
Hence the problem. Bases in AvA generally are much closer than on the MA maps, as many have remarked; so it takes three or four minutes to get to the action, not 15. I don’t know what the current icon setting is (no enemy was my favorite), but I believe it is reduced range icons, similar to what you can experience in Monday Night Madness. (Try it, it’s quite a twist.) It’s the natural tendency of people to go where the crowd is that is the current problem.
But, of course, real WWII afficionados should not be deterred by that.
- oldman
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While I was in the arena alone.... I almost shot myself down.
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But, of course, real WWII afficionados should not be deterred by that.
Oh well. You can lead horses to water, but you just can't make them drink. ;)
It doesn't surprise me that it doesn't appeal to many Melee players.
I wonder if it isn't appealing to the Scenario type because while it is more historical, it still has no built in structure. No focus, no mission, no command structure, no built in coordination as part of the design.
Otherwise, it's just a Melee with less planes. ;)
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Oh well. You can lead horses to water, but you just can't make them drink. ;)
It doesn't surprise me that it doesn't appeal to many Melee players.
I wonder if it isn't appealing to the Scenario type because while it is more historical, it still has no built in structure. No focus, no mission, no command structure, no built in coordination as part of the design.
Otherwise, it's just a Melee with less planes. ;)
That sounds pretty plausible.
Wiley.
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Well, if there are no icons, I'm out.
If it is a 15 minute flight to get to action, I'm out.
If it is empty, I'm out. ;)
:neener:
Enemy icons are set to 1000.
It’s a couple minute flight to the action.
It’s yet to be empty at start time. Usually, there are several players already in a half hour early.
Give it a try. You’ll at least get a good work out. There have been nights with 20 or more in the arena. :salute
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Enemy icons are set to 1000.
It’s a couple minute flight to the action.
It’s yet to be empty at start time. Usually, there are several players already in a half hour early.
Give it a try. You’ll at least get a good work out. There have been nights with 20 or more in the arena. :salute
I wasn't referring to MNM (or Tank Night). Those appear popular.
I was referring to the normal, daily AvA setup with a historical maps and plane match-ups.
:salute
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I wasn't referring to MNM (or Tank Night). Those appear popular.
I was referring to the normal, daily AvA setup with a historical maps and plane match-ups.
:salute
Oh, Ok. That’s an entirely different situation. Plus, no enemy icons is no longer the status. There are icons for both side but, I’m not sure what they are currently.