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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Puma44 on August 15, 2020, 06:57:17 PM

Title: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Puma44 on August 15, 2020, 06:57:17 PM
Are You Pissed? He Asks.

At age 22, I graduated college, was commissioned a Second Lieutenant in the USAF, drove my first out of town trip (longer than 70 miles) to Vance AFB, Oklahoma, drove through the main gate for my first salute as an active duty officer, and began USAF UPT (Undergraduate Pilot Training).  After weeks of ground school, simulator training, and briefings, I began flying the Cessna T-37 Tweet, side by side, primary jet trainer, commonly referred to as the “6,000 lb Dog Whistle” because of the obnoxious high pitched noise it made on the ground with the engines running.  Quite a few significant life events for a guy of the ripe old age of 22.

(https://i.postimg.cc/3wFg5pVX/AF760-B0-E-7-EB3-4437-908-B-F100-DB59818-E.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

All of this early training was to culminate in being cleared for the first Tweet solo flight.  On one of my dual training flights with an IP (Instructor Pilot) the objective was for me to demonstrate the ability to safely recover from a stall.  Not just any stall.  A series of stalls in clean configuration at idle, at takeoff power, and in the the landing configuration with power at idle, approach, and takeoff settings with various angles of bank. 

My IP today is a highly experienced FAIP (First Assignment Instructor Pilot), meaning he graduated UPT, went to instructor school, and then to a UPT base as his first assignment.  Not only is he highly experienced, he is highly burnt out from being a Tweet Instructor for nearly four years.  He knows the mistakes a student pilot is going to make before stepping out to fly the jet.  His patience is permanently worn thin from too much time “teaching” in the Tweet.  His reputation precedes him with dread every time one of us “studs” sees his name next to ours on the flying schedule.  He is known for profuse cussing and screaming at his “stud’s” performance, even to the point of reaching over, grabbing the “stud’s” oxygen mask and shaking it to gain the attention of his charge. 

Once airborne and in our assigned working area, he directs me to do a clean, idle power straight ahead stall.  Simple enough.  Especially for a “highly” experienced Private Pilot with about 200 hours of flying time in Cessnas, a Citabria, a Piper Cherokee, and a Super Cub.  So, I do clearing turns, roll out on his directed heading, reduce the throttles to idle, and apply back pressure to increase angle of attack in preparation for the impending stall.  As we were taught to expect, the airframe vibration from air disruption over the wings goes through the expected “Pebbles, Rocks, and Boulders” sensation and the Tweet stalls, then drops off slightly to one side because I don’t have the rudder perfectly centered at the time of the stall.  As I am correcting that simultaneously with pushing the stick and throttles forward to recover from the stall, he is ranting and raving interlaced with choice profanity.  I break the stall, increase flying speed, and almost recover in the allotted amount of altitude.  Of course, true to his reputation, there’s no level of “instruction” going on, just nearly out of control rage.

Next, he tersely demands a straight ahead approach to landing configuration (landing gear and flaps down) stall.  This guy definitely doesn’t foster a learning environment.  I complete the required clearing maneuver, extend the landing gear and flaps, and set the throttles to the required percentage.  This many years later, I don’t remember what that exact number was but, I do remember setting them perfectly the same, 2% off what was required.  Not a word from him as I apply back pressure on the stick to increase the angle of attack, and then his tirade starts. He isn’t telling me what’s wrong, doesn’t say to stop doing what I’m doing, and then starts pounding aggressively on the glare shield as I feel the progression through “Pebbles, Rocks, and Boulders” and the subsequent stall.  In the midst of this, he screams something about the engine rpm setting.  By now I’ve had enough of his out of control rage.  As the nose of the Tweet breaks through the stall I hold back pressure on the stick and control wing rock with judicious application of rudder keeping it in a quasi stall, steep descent.  He screams “Recover!” I ignore him.  He screams “RECOVER!!” I ignore him as we continue the semi controlled steep descent.  He then asks, in an almost civil tone, “Are you pissed?”  In my best available military bearing, I reply “Yes Sir!”, and promptly complete the stall recovery.  We are still well above the minimum altitude for stall initiation and recovery but, I’ve completely blown through the minimum required stall recovery altitude loss, and don’t much care at this point.  At this point I have lost interest in this guy and his inability to recover from self induced “Out of Control” emotions.  As my extremely higher than normal adrenaline rush starts to subside, it occurs to me, WTF have I just done?!  More than likely, I’ve just busted this ride and will have to redo it.  A greater worry is how is my flight commander going to react to this?  To say the least, my “IP” has induced a great deal of unnecessary distraction into this less than ideal learning situation.  Fortunately, we are done with the area work and it’s a matter of returning to base, landing, taxi back to our parking spot, and shutting down.  It’s a fairly quiet flight back interlaced with a few of his usual caustic inputs.  I can not wait to get out of this jet.

We sit down for the debrief and his toxic blast begins.  All of my classmates in the flight room either distance themselves or egress the room.  Everyone has either self experienced or heard this guy’s debriefings.  I am still so pissed at his behavior, most of his debrief is not getting through my glazed over ear drums.  I just want him outta my face so I can go talk with my flight commander.  He finally quits talking and hands me the grade slip.  To this day, I don’t remember if he busted me on the ride or not.  It didn’t matter then, nor does it now.  There was no instruction going on during that ride at all.  Most importantly, I got to log the flying time.

So, we stand up, exchange salutes, and he leaves the flight room.  My next stop is the flight commander’s office (a senior Captain).  I knock on his door, he welcomes me in, and asks what’s up?  I ask to close the door and he approves.  After explaining what has transpired on the ride, I tell the boss that the ride was far from a learning experience and that I refuse to fly with the rage master again.  The boss is receptive and appreciative for my debriefing.  He is aware of this guy’s technique and reputation.  He thanks me for the input, and dismisses me.

Returning to my assigned student table, I am immediately surrounded by several of my classmates wanting to know what just happened.  I explain what transpired on the ride and in the Flight Commander’s office.  Amazed at my refusal to fly with this IP, everyone gathered starts revealing their similar experiences with this guy, to include him grabbing their oxygen mask hose and jerking their head around as an attention step.  Over the next couple of days, four of my classmates go to our Flight Commander with similar stories and refuse to fly with him.  Shortly thereafter, the IP is reassigned out of our flight to the Wing Flight Safety Office where he flys only occasionally with the T-37 flight sections as an attached IP.  He never flys again with our flight section for the rest of our time in Tweets.

It took awhile.  But, I almost (I said almost) felt sorry for the guy when thinking about the level of burn out he reached.  On the other hand, there were IPs who had been flying the Tweet much longer than this guy, and were a pleasure to fly with and learn from.

Regardless, an unintended valuable lesson to be aware of in the future.

Next, on to the T-38 Talon, or “White Rocket” where I really come into my own as a future Fighter Pilot.  Compared to the cumbersome feeling Tweet, the “White Rocket” fits like a glove and is a dream to fly.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Qx8wRkzb/0-FACFD76-EEE3-4-A49-A61-C-2-DEF68-A2-F539.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: NatCigg on August 15, 2020, 07:13:59 PM
 :aok

Thanks for that.

 :salute
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: MiloMorai on August 15, 2020, 07:22:17 PM
 :aok :cheers:

Now think of what those late teens/early twenties must have felt during WW2.
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: rabbidrabbit on August 15, 2020, 07:38:55 PM
Great story
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: redcatcherb412 on August 15, 2020, 07:44:58 PM
Puma, it' easy to identify with the thrill you felt at that age and accomplishing all those 'firsts' that untold numbers of youngsters just dream or dreamed about doing.

As a groundpounder we also got some thrilling firsts such as the first grenade thrown, firing a Ma Deuce for the first time or blowing up a vehicle with a LAW's rocket.

At 17 blowing stuff up was one of the most thrilling things I could imagine and probably almost equivalent to your first time at the end of the runway in that dog whistle ramming the throttles home for your first time ever jamming you back in your seat.  Those are the types of thrills and memories that stay with you forever even with the instructor being, well an instructor. :huh

 :salute
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Puma44 on August 15, 2020, 07:52:10 PM
:aok :cheers:

Now think of what those late teens/early twenties must have felt during WW2.

Thanks gents!  A landmark year in my life, for sure.

:aok :cheers:

Now think of what those late teens/early twenties must have felt during WW2.

No kidding!  The folks at Stallion51 once told me that the average young pilot had 3-5 hours of flying time in the Mustang going to war in it.  The “Old Head” Mustang pilots had 10-12 hours.  I guess it’s all relative.

Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Puma44 on August 15, 2020, 07:56:33 PM
Puma, it' easy to identify with the thrill you felt at that age and accomplishing all those 'firsts' that untold numbers of youngsters just dream or dreamed about doing.

As a groundpounder we also got some thrilling firsts such as the first grenade thrown, firing a Ma Deuce for the first time or blowing up a vehicle with a LAW's rocket.

At 17 blowing stuff up was one of the most thrilling things I could imagine and probably almost equivalent to your first time at the end of the runway in that dog whistle ramming the throttles home for your first time ever jamming you back in your seat.  Those are the types of thrills and memories that stay with you forever even with the instructor being, well an instructor. :huh

 :salute

I hear ya Redcatcher.  Blowing stuff up is a thrill at any age!
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Arlo on August 15, 2020, 08:29:08 PM
As always, excellent story, sir. Both of those aircraft operated out of Reese here in my formative years. Regrettably, 'our' base closed in `97 (a decade after my separation from Naval Reserve duty).

 :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Busher on August 15, 2020, 09:43:42 PM
I truly enjoy the stories of your youth.
If I might share a similar one,  I was a green First Officer with the airline just having completed groundschool and type endorsement with my class of 6 other candidates. It was a tough time in aviation and difficult to get an airline seat. The low time guy in my class had around 5000 hours including some jet experience.
We had been warned about a senior Captain (we'll call him Brad). Brad had a reputation with all the First Officers as being a berating belittling S.O.B who treated his crews like dirt. It wasn't long before all of us had been yelled at, been sworn at, and generally called everything but a good addition to the pilot group. He caused such stress to many FO's that they would book off if scheduled to fly with Brad, so the junior guys like me and my peers would be called in to fly with him.
My new group discussed going to the Chief Pilot with our grievances but as the new "probies", combined with the fact that the senior First Officers had done nothing about him, that seemed like a lost cause. One of the guys on my course (we'll call him Greg) had a better idea. Greg was huge - 6'6" tall and no fat. Greg had taken his release from the Air Force as a C130 pilot to make a life in civil aviation. Greg asked us all to meet in the employees parking lot at 11:30pm the next day.
Shortly after we arrived together, Brad came in after having operated the late flight in from the west. Greg approached him and began to make it clear that his treatment of his crews was not only unacceptable, it would not be tolerated anymore. Brad being Brad started to berate Greg in his normal fashion, but Greg cut him off. Greg's words are still clear to this day...

"Brad if you don't decide to clean up your act, I'm going to stick my fingers up your nose and rip your f**king face off... and I'll guarantee that I'll be out of jail before you get out of the hospital".

It became very quiet in the parking garage. Flying with Brad after that was never a day of joy but he never treated a First Officer like dirt again.
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Puma44 on August 15, 2020, 10:27:06 PM
Thanks Busher, for your kind words.

Your story about “Brad” is hilarious and all too typical.  You’ve reminded me of another story.   Thank you!  :aok
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Shuffler on August 15, 2020, 10:44:14 PM
Great read..... more book more book.......
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: 1stpar3 on August 16, 2020, 12:05:03 AM
YEAH!  :rock   And remind him of another!!! YEAH, WTG Busher :x    Loved it Pumma! :salute
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Toad on August 16, 2020, 08:25:26 AM
Quote
He is known for profuse cussing and screaming at his “stud’s” performance, even to the point of reaching over, grabbing the “stud’s” oxygen mask and shaking it to gain the attention of his charge.

I don't know what year that happened to you but I may have had that guy at Willie. Did he transfer in from Vance? From Willie to Vance? Different guy/same attitude? Who knows? :)

I was doing pretty good in Tweets. So well that right after solo they gave me a "guest help" IP from...you guessed it...Wing Safety. This was the screamer; I still remember his name quite clearly. Without going into detail, my performance declined and I barely made it out of Tweets to Talons. I too was "instructed" by the grabbing of the nose hose from the right seat, given a vigorous shaking until my eyeball gyros tumbled coupled with rage screaming in my helmet earphones.

When I did get to Talons, I initially had a great instructor (with whom I remain friends to this day) and I was one of the first to solo. Gee... wonder what the difference was? But then...since I was doing so well...I got shifted to a brand new IP just back from Nam after a tour in O-2s and my original instructor took on a pair of struggling students. I am pretty sure I knew way more about flying the Talon than the O-2 driver did from day 1. Once again, I had to teach myself to win my wings. Bit of a struggle but I made it.

Once again, great tale Puma. Enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Puma44 on August 16, 2020, 09:44:09 AM
Not surprising that there was one at Willie.  Must Have been some sort of equal opportunity effort going on in ATC at the time.  Just wouldn’t be fair to have all the screamers at one base.  Better to spread the pain out to everyone. 

Thanks Toad!  Glad you made it into the fraternity of “White Rocket” drivers.  :salute
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: streakeagle on August 16, 2020, 10:13:48 AM
I would have suffered through that IP every day of training just to have the opportunities you had. I would have loved to fly the T-37, T-38, and most of all the F-4. My uncorrected eyesight guaranteed I would never be a professional pilot of any kind. Even if I had 20/20 eyesight, I may not have had the personality to be a military pilot, much less a fighter pilot. But I will never know. I would love to have tried and have all these great stories to tell from a life long career in aviation.

I feel like Charlie Brown in the Halloween Special when the kids compare the treats they got after leaving each house. What did you get? All I got was a rock. So many in the combat flight community are or were real military pilots and all I got was 8 years in the Navy with 6 1/2 years on submarines. 20+ hours of stick time in Cessnas/Pipers and PC flight sims let me live in a fantasy world where I believe I could have been a good fighter pilot. But even if PC sims could get the physics and graphics 100% right, they don't provide the lifetime of experiences real pilots like you have had both in and out of the cockpit... Again, all I got was a rock!

Puma44, I know I have thanked you in many of your posts, but I can never thank you enough. Your stories are far better than the fictionalized stories in Hollywood garbage and books. If you can't or won't do it yourself, you need an editor to gather all your posts and arrange them into some kind of book. It could be just a bunch of short story anecdotes that remain nearly identical in format to what you have posted here, or they could be put in some kind of chronological order to become some sort of biography. Robin Olds' autobiography was extremely easy to read, very entertaining, and at the same time educational. I believe your complete story could be just as good. But with your sense of humor, maybe it could have more of a Catch-22 vibe to it poking fun of the trials and tribulations of a military pilot's career.
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Maverick on August 16, 2020, 10:20:25 AM
Good read and good reaction to the hemorrhoid tossing the fit.
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Puma44 on August 16, 2020, 10:42:09 AM
Thanks Streakeagle! 

I’ve been very lucky to have a number positive doors of opportunity presented in my flying career.  There are for sure, military guys who have more heroic “save the day” type stories and many of them have produced books. These stories are the memories that have stuck out for some reason.  When relayed to others, they have brought positive comments and encouragement for more, and you all encouraging the writing of a book.  So, yes, I’ve been printing out each of these and am developing a fairly thick file folder of them.  I have three people who have written books.  When I feel finished with collecting the contents of the future book, they’ll be my sources of “how to”.

Years ago, my God Son asked if I’d heard of this game.  No, what’s it about?  He explained and my interest obviously took hold.  Like everyone new to AH, the learning curve was near vertical and frustrating.  But, once I gained traction, the hook was set.  I immediately loved the teamwork and camaraderie that was so missed from the military flying days.  To this day, that’s my motivation in game, especially with particular players who are like minded. 

So, CHECK SIX! Like shark week, there’s something lurking at your deep six where you aren’t looking.  See ya in cartoon world!  :D :aok :salute
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Arlo on August 16, 2020, 11:27:10 AM
Years ago, my God Son asked if I’d heard of this game.  No, what’s it about.  He explained and my interest obviously took hold.  Like everyone new to AH, the learning curve was near vertical and frustrating.  But, once I gained traction, the hook was set.  I immediately loved the teamwork and camaraderie that was so missed from the military flying days.  To this day, that’s my motivation in game, especially with particular players who are like minded. 

This!^

 :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Toad on August 16, 2020, 03:38:52 PM
I forgot to mention this little tidbit I found out later.

When my “screamer” first got to Willie as a FAIP he busted his instructor checkride. Had to do remedial training before the recheck and on to students

Guess who the guy that busted him was? My brother who was Stan Eval at the time. This was about 4-5 years before I showed up.

Another Tweet IP told me that after I had moved on to 38s  Things that make u go hmmmmm
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Puma44 on August 16, 2020, 04:52:52 PM
I forgot to mention this little tidbit I found out later.

When my “screamer” first got to Willie as a FAIP he busted his instructor checkride. Had to do remedial training before the recheck and on to students

Guess who the guy that busted him was? My brother who was Stan Eval at the time. This was about 4-5 years before I showed up.

Another Tweet IP told me that after I had moved on to 38s  Things that make u go hmmmmm

Now, isn’t that interesting?  :uhoh
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Busher on August 16, 2020, 05:04:58 PM
Now, isn’t that interesting?  :uhoh

So Puma, you saw professional flying from both the fighter pilot standpoint as well that of an airline pilot. Is there even the slightest way to compare the "check-rides" that you had to pass? Other than an instrument approach, I can't fathom what would be "standard" or "sub-standard" in a fighter jet.
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Puma44 on August 16, 2020, 06:28:00 PM
So Puma, you saw professional flying from both the fighter pilot standpoint as well that of an airline pilot. Is there even the slightest way to compare the "check-rides" that you had to pass? Other than an instrument approach, I can't fathom what would be "standard" or "sub-standard" in a fighter jet.

Good question.  The obvious is “taking a check ride” pressure.   The Tactical Check Ride or, Tac Check, in fighters included the very real possibility of getting killed, where the airline simulator was a pretty safe environment.  The instrument checks were essentially the same; instrument departure, air work maneuvers (except for the AF SEFE who put our F-4E out of control while demoing a high AOA rudder roll) descent, various normal and abnormal instrument approaches, missed approaches, and landing. I was of the philosophy that flying each day like it was a check ride (you know, flying procedurally like we were paid to do) would make check ride day a lot less stressful, and it did.

Then there’s the oral in each environment that could run anywhere from “that was straight forward” to tournament level “stump the dummy”.  I’ve experienced the full gamet of those, as I’m sure you have also.  I’d go back and do each career in a heart beat.  :salute
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Bixby on August 16, 2020, 10:01:23 PM
Thanks Puma44. Keep them coming Sir.  <Salute> and thank you for sharing your history.

Get that book published!
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Busher on August 16, 2020, 10:03:53 PM
Good question.  The obvious is “taking a check ride” pressure.   The Tactical Check Ride or, Tac Check, in fighters included the very real possibility of getting killed, where the airline simulator was a pretty safe environment.  The instrument checks were essentially the same; instrument departure, air work maneuvers (except for the AF SEFE who put our F-4E out of control while demoing a high AOA rudder roll) descent, various normal and abnormal instrument approaches, missed approaches, and landing. I was of the philosophy that flying each day like it was a check ride (you know, flying procedurally like we were paid to do) would make check ride day a lot less stressful, and it did.

Then there’s the oral in each environment that could run anywhere from “that was straight forward” to tournament level “stump the dummy”.  I’ve experienced the full gamet of those, as I’m sure you have also.  I’d go back and do each career in a heart beat.  :salute

To your last statement, I agree but as the cycles of professional flying always swing to extremes, now it seems this pandemic will impact the careers so negatively for so many young pilots.

" I was of the philosophy that flying each day like it was a check ride (you know, flying procedurally like we were paid to do) would make check ride day a lot less stressful, and it did."

My very first day as a young First Officer doing line indoc with one of the finest pilots I ever knew, we had an engine "burp" right at Vr. Your philosophy became mine as well that day and did not change for 37 years.
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Puma44 on August 16, 2020, 10:07:27 PM
Thanks Puma44. Keep them coming Sir.  <Salute> and thank you for sharing your history.

Get that book published!

Your welcome Bixby!  Working the book one story at a time.   :aok
Title: Re: Are You Pissed? He Asks.
Post by: Puma44 on August 16, 2020, 10:10:59 PM
My very first day as a young First Officer doing line indoc with one of the finest pilots I ever knew, we had an engine "burp" right at Vr. Your philosophy became mine as well that day and did not change for 37 years.

Interesting.  My new hire classmate and sim partner experienced a blown engine our first month on line.  He couldn’t have been more prepared, just coming out of a couple weeks of V1 cut practice in the simulator.

Occasional, I would fly with a Captain who had his own personalized set of operating procedures because he, was smarter than everyone else in the company.  As a green FO, that made for some interesting challenges as I tried to just get up to speed with the jet.  I always wondered how these guy’s sim checks went when they had to stop using their stylized procedures and do the company procedures.