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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Slade on October 28, 2020, 01:00:11 PM

Title: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Slade on October 28, 2020, 01:00:11 PM
Hello,

I have never mastered any aspect of the P-38.  I thought I heard that if one turns off (briefly) one of the engines in a turn it will turn tighter.

Is that true? If yes, please share how the technique is executed.


Are there any other useful P-38 techniques that are unique to that plane that one can work to master?


Thanks,  :salute

X15
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Shuffler on October 28, 2020, 01:07:34 PM
One engine off will only get you into trouble. Even using split throttles usually gets you into trouble. May help when returning damaged though.

Lots of practice.....  one item you might find useful is hanging on the props. On the 38 they counter rotate so the do not induce roll on the aircraft. You can still have a lot of control at very low speeds.
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: FLS on October 28, 2020, 03:15:15 PM
A conventional turn uses lift to turn. More lift causes more drag so reducing thrust on one engine typically makes your P-38 turn slower not faster. The only time going slower helps turning is when you are above corner speed.

One advantage of the P-38 is the balanced torque. This lets you fly slower than a single engine fighter while avoiding unintended yaw.  This can be useful for max altitude in a zoom climb and then using one engine can spin your nose around quickly when you have little airspeed.

Dual throttle control is useful for spin control. The engines are too close to the aircraft center line to cause much yaw by themselves at normal flying speeds but they can spin you when you are slow enough.

Here's an old video I made that demonstrates dual throttle control in a P-38.

Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: perdue3 on October 28, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
I recommend the Bf 109 family.  :devil
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 28, 2020, 08:56:57 PM
Hello,

I have never mastered any aspect of the P-38.  I thought I heard that if one turns off (briefly) one of the engines in a turn it will turn tighter.

Is that true? If yes, please share how the technique is executed.


Are there any other useful P-38 techniques that are unique to that plane that one can work to master?


Thanks,  :salute

X15

Never turn your off your engine. Becoming better at vertical ACM and retaining your E is what will make you roll and position better, not turning off your engine.

Use high looping rolls in the vertical. The P38 has excellent vertical climb with E control. Use lots of rudder and flap management. Fly smoothly but aggressive. Its a great plane for learning E management.

I recommend the Bf 109 family.  :devil

Funny enough, in the fighter mode, flying a p38 similar to a 109 is very beneficial, though you should escape the fight more quickly in situations due to its size.

Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: atlau on October 29, 2020, 10:04:17 AM
One of its best attributes are its guns. Center mounted with excellent ballistics means you can shoot at range with good precision and lethality gives you a longer window to kill an opponent and forces them to defend sooner vs say against a 30mm or widely spaced wing guns which have a lower pk at range.
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Drano on October 29, 2020, 11:40:49 AM
One of its best attributes are its guns. Center mounted with excellent ballistics means you can shoot at range with good precision and lethality gives you a longer window to kill an opponent and forces them to defend sooner vs say against a 30mm or widely spaced wing guns which have a lower pk at range.
That is unless the guy shooting is me!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Slade on October 29, 2020, 02:30:23 PM
Guys,

Wow really great info.  Thanks!  :cheers:

Which P-38 do you like to fly and why?


Thanks again,

X15  :salute
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: FLS on October 29, 2020, 03:27:45 PM
When you practice loops, loops are vertical turns and the basis of vertical fights, practice with flaps. The P-38 has flaps that increase the wing area. Up to 50% extension, 3rd notch, adds more lift than drag. Full flaps add so much drag they are basically for landing.

If your loops are tilted rather than pure vertical you'll have more speed over the top and less over-speed through the bottom but tilting loops also affects turning room and that turning room is available for the bandit also.

Dive flaps do not help you turn.

Because the guns are clustered in the nose you get better long range shot density. Use the machine guns for longer range shots, save the cannon for closer shots when you are confident of hits.
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Drano on October 29, 2020, 03:45:34 PM
I'm partial to all the 38s but generally settle on the L. Where most that fly it do so for its ability to carry ords, I fly it as a pure fighter. It has the dive recovery flap and boosted ailerons. Those extra doodads make it a smidge heavier than the J but otherwise they're identical aircraft. I like the extra kick in roll rate the boosted ailerons give. Any help there is welcome as none of the 38s roll very well. A good kick of rudder helps here too. The 38s pick up speed quickly in dives. Especially so at higher alts. The dive flap comes in handy managing the compression that goes along with diving them. I have the flap and elevator trim mapped to quickly respond and keep control.

The G is the greater turner of the bunch. Lacking the extra systems and carrying less internal fuel than the others make it a lighter bird however with shorter legs(clean). No WEP means it's not running away and is less capable in the vertical. It's better suited for lower alts. Otherwise it's again the same airframe with the same guns.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Shuffler on October 29, 2020, 04:51:55 PM
I fly the J because it make most folks scratch their heads and wonder why. :)
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Badboy on October 30, 2020, 02:25:19 PM
I have never mastered any aspect of the P-38.  I thought I heard that if one turns off (briefly) one of the engines in a turn it will turn tighter.

Is that true? If yes, please share how the technique is executed.

Are there any other useful P-38 techniques that are unique to that plane that one can work to master?

Hi Slade

You mention that your looking for a technique that helps the P-38 turn tighter and also a useful technique you can try to master... I can offer a suggestion for both.

Firstly, most pilots prefer to begin a fight with at least as much energy as their adversary, and hopefully more. What I'm going to describe is a suggestion for those occasions when you have done everything correctly but have not been able to convert your energy into a decisive advantage.

For example, you engaged a Spitfire in a hard turning fight and as your speed bleeds off and slows down to corner velocity your reach the point where you know that the Spitfire's low speed turning ability is going to become a problem... What can you do next? Well it turns out that many pilots will engage better turning aircraft and fight for several turns, but they are good at knowing just when the escape window is about to close and extend before they get locked into a fight to the death. That's fine once you have already mastered the aircraft and have another agenda, but when you are trying to learn, every fight should be a fight to the death. It is the fastest way to learn and pretty soon the other pilots will be visiting the tower far more often than you.

So, what can you work on to turn the tables once the fight gets slow? The first technique is to master the flaps. You wanted to turn tighter and the flaps will tighten your turn inside that of many other fighters including the Spitfire. The key thing here is that while the P-38 can turn tighter than the Spit, it can't out turn it. The Spitfire can turn at a higher rate, but the P-38 can turn inside it with a tighter radius. So here is how that radius looks:

(https://i.imgur.com/4kpY2W3.jpg)

It turns out that for the P38 the turn rate stays almost the same as the turn radius tightens all the way down to 4 notches of flaps, the last notch also comes with a turn rate penalty as you can see, so as already mentioned its best to avoid that last notch of flaps. So, once your speed gets below corner you need to drop your flaps as fast as you can all the way down to 4 notches, and in order to maintain the turn you should turn slightly nose low. If your opponent goes nose low with you, particular if they aren't using flaps, their speed will increase and their turn circle will open even wider.

However, at that point a good Spitfire pilot won't want to let his speed increase too much to keep their turn as tight as possible and many will either work the throttle or turn nose high, or both and that's where you can try the following technique to cut across the circle.

What you do is to effectively split-S across the circle with the intention of coming up the other side, inside their circle and with a shot as you hang on your prop, as shown below:

(https://i.imgur.com/5akdpol.jpg)

As an aside, this doesn't just work in the P-38, I see other players dropping flaps and trying this in a variety of different aircraft, so its a transferable skill.

If you miss the first shot, just come over the top, roll into lead while in the vertical (using your roll rate to effectively out turn a faster turning opponent) then split-S again. It's not easy to get the shot while hanging on the prop at low speed but the combination of the three techniques:


Are key techniques for you to master and will reward you greatly once you have.

Most importantly, have fun while learning this stuff, and be patient, you will soon learn to recognize when those things are not going to work and will learn how to convert from the attack to a diving extension to try and reset the fight.

A word of caution, the P-38 is one of the biggest targets in the game, so getting slow in densely populated airspace is the kiss of death, so you have more chance of success in a 1v1 situation, and even then while starting to learn the P-38 it will be tough. Getting picked just as you think you are about to succeed will be frustrating. The key thing when learning a new technique is to try and maximize opportunities to practice, even if you know its a one way ticket back to the tower. As long as you learn something each time it will be worth it.

The reward will be, when you eventually become one of those P-38 pilots who can steal the lunch from any pilot who doesn't show the proper respect for the P-38 regardless of who they are or what they are flying.   

Lastly, a final technique to master is the use of the film viewer. Save film of the success and failures and see if you can compare, identify and eradicate errors. Use the recorded and external views with trails and icons turned on and watch key moments in slow motion. In that way the film viewer can accelerate your learning.

Hope that helps...

Badboy
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Oldman731 on October 30, 2020, 03:30:04 PM
when you are trying to learn, every fight should be a fight to the death.


Words of wisdom.

- oldman (and hey, it seems to me that most any fight I have is a fight to my death)

Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Owlblink on November 03, 2020, 12:40:50 AM
Quote
What you do is to effectively split-S across the circle with the intention of coming up the other side, inside their circle and with a shot as you hang on your prop, as shown below:
(https://i.imgur.com/5akdpol.jpg)

If I may respectfully interject, and this could just be semantics, But I think maybe Badboy is referring to performing a steep low yo-yo. To my understanding a split S involves two things; converting altitude to speed and changing direction. I only mention this because what the drawing depicts (to me) is more accurately described as a low yo-yo but I am willing to stand corrected.

As pointed out by (I believe) FLS, you are actually not going to get better sustained turn or turn radius with more than 3 flaps, you will observe what feels like an initial increase in turn rate but the drag will hurt you very quickly. If you are level, the extra flaps may help you float a tittle (similar to how an F4U flaps work). I do not have the data points to process this into a graph and both I and FLS may stand to be corrected but either way play around with the flaps and judge for yourself.

Dual throttle does definitely help with hammerheads. Also great for driving around on the runway.

I *think* what the OP may have meant by turning with one engine is role rate. Cutting a throttle can make the 38 do some weird rolling things but it will screw you up far more than any perceived advantages. There have been a number of great 38 pilots in AH (I am not one of them), even one that flies with a mouse, but few if any of them had dual throttle set ups or did weird gamey things like cutting out engines.

The best maneuver for any situation involves judging both your and your combatants energy states, your machine vs your opponent's machine’s capabilities, predicting their moves while trying to catch the potential mark off guard, and maintaining situational awareness. I know that’s a smart arsch answer but it gets you thinking in the right direction over trying to master gimmicks.
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: FLS on November 03, 2020, 09:09:58 AM
The graph is a little more interesting when it includes the first three flap positions.

Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Badboy on November 03, 2020, 03:27:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5akdpol.jpg)

If I may respectfully interject, and this could just be semantics, But I think maybe Badboy is referring to performing a steep low yo-yo.

Hi Owlblink

Yes, a low yo-yo may have been a better description. To me, both terms seemed lacking. I was torn between the two because I've found the low yo-yo to be more effective in aces high when they are done fairly shallow and repeatedly. Several small ones are often better than one big one. However, what works better in the situation I've described is a very steep low yo-yo, so steep that I think it has more similarity to a split S. I've shown this in the diagram below:

(https://i.imgur.com/h2wWJbt.jpg)

The key thing is that everyone knows what flight path was intended and it may have been better to have described it without the use of either terms. I could describe it like this: Imagine the spitfire and P38 flying around the rim of a mixing bowl in a level turn. The low yo-yo would be any path below the rim, while the path required passes through the bottom of the bowl. So I think that the split S description helps achieve that understanding.     

Quote
I only mention this because what the drawing depicts (to me) is more accurately described as a low yo-yo but I am willing to stand corrected.

I don't think it really matters, the diagrams get the idea across. It isn't a precise thing, because in reality both aircraft may already be turning nose low and the fight is often spiraling downwards. It's just that normally, the P-38 needs to spiral more steeply, and if many other aircraft try to match that, they gain speed, their turn circle widens and they help the P-38 turn inside. So good opponents will often attempt to spiral less steeply or transition to a climbing spiral... It is further complicated by the opponent's intention to either energy or angles fight. This is also influenced because the P-38 has better turn radius than turn rate performance and often finds itself against aircraft with a better rate but worse radius performance. That means the P38 pilots almost always prefer one circle geometry over two circle, and the techniques I've described work well when the P-38 finds itself getting stuck in a two circle fight against someone who knows how to energy fight.

Quote
As pointed out by (I believe) FLS, you are actually not going to get better sustained turn or turn radius with more than 3 flaps, you will observe what feels like an initial increase in turn rate but the drag will hurt you very quickly. If you are level, the extra flaps may help you float a tittle (similar to how an F4U flaps work). I do not have the data points to process this into a graph and both I and FLS may stand to be corrected but either way play around with the flaps and judge for yourself.

I took another look and found a more recent diagram with all the flap positions shown.

(https://i.imgur.com/XQQIdAt.jpg)

You can see from this diagram that the best combination of radius and rate in a level turn is at 4 notches. The catch with that diagram is that it shows the turn rate in a sustained level turn. In combat that rarely happens unless both pilots are fairly evenly matched and the fight has ended up on the deck. 

When I made the radius diagram above I also posted an Energy Maneuverability diagram (doghouse plot) for the P-38 as shown below but it only shows the first 3 notches of flaps along with a clean configuration. Anyone with that diagram in their possession could be forgiven for thinking that 3 notches were the optimal setting.

(https://i.imgur.com/zUo8Ttm.jpg)

I would have omitted the 4th and 5th notches from the diagram when I posted it because it wasn't relevant in the discussion where it was originally used. That would have been because flying at 3 notches of flaps has another advantage over 4 notches during combat that is unrelated to rate and radius considerations. I wonder if anyone can say what that is?

What is most interesting from the EM diagram above is that if you look at the left hand curve for 3 notches (shown in grey) you can see that in a nose low turn, if you execute a roll into the split S or steep low yo-yo the true air speed may increase to 225mph or more giving a temporary turn rate boost to over 30dps and well above what the Spit will be achieving in its sustained climbing turn.

No wonder so many unsuspecting spitfire pilots can be surprised and amazed by a good P-38 pilot using the technique I've described.

Hope that helps

Badboy
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: FLS on November 03, 2020, 04:07:59 PM
Nice post Badboy. I was probably misremembering and confused the P-38 with the Corsair flaps.

I'm curious which flap position is modeled as the 50% extension maneuver flap position?
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Drano on November 03, 2020, 05:00:34 PM
Yeah the last couple notches of flap in the 38s are purely to keep you from literally falling out of the sky! It will help you in that regard by at that point you need to get back to a speed range where it's 3 notches max if you're fighting/maneuvering.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Owlblink on November 03, 2020, 06:51:47 PM
I appreciate the clarification, badboy!
I will have to play around with the flaps a bit more then, myself and see what works in the different situation.

Would you consider 3 flaps to maybe have been an observation for more nose high maneuvers where you may need some flaps but not as much drag as with 4?
Curious to see what your insight behind your wondering question might be.
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Badboy on November 10, 2020, 05:37:18 PM
I'm curious which flap position is modeled as the 50% extension maneuver flap position?

I'm not sure, but I think the 3rd notch is close enough  :)

Badboy
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Badboy on November 10, 2020, 05:43:42 PM
Yeah the last couple notches of flap in the 38s are purely to keep you from literally falling out of the sky! It will help you in that regard by at that point you need to get back to a speed range where it's 3 notches max if you're fighting/maneuvering.

Good point Drano

It is a common theme across a wide range of aircraft that using flaps can improve turning performance up to a point, but using them beyond the point of optimal aerodynamic efficiency is like digging yourself into an energy hole that you can't get out of. In the P-38 staying at 3 notches of flaps or less, keeps more options open longer.

Badboy
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Badboy on November 10, 2020, 06:44:34 PM
Would you consider 3 flaps to maybe have been an observation for more nose high maneuvers where you may need some flaps but not as much drag as with 4?
Curious to see what your insight behind your wondering question might be.

The key thing about the P-38 is that it can achieve a tight turn radius, but not such a good turn rate, relatively speaking. Fighter pilots have a saying "Rate Kills" which essentially means that even if you have a tighter turn radius, an aircraft that can out turn you, can still kill you. At first that isn't obvious, because you might think that one of two options are possible:
However in the first situation the pilot with the better turn rate can change the geometry of the fight to create turning room for the shot by off-setting the turn circles and that can be achieved by turning out of plane with a high yo-yo for example.

However if an opponent attempts to create turning room or off-set the turn circles by going out of plane with a high yo-yo, the best defense is to duplicate the maneuver with one of your own, taking away the turning room and resetting the geometry of the fight and thus staying inside his turn. The catch is, you can't do that if you have given your opponent exclusive use of the vertical by digging yourself into an energy hole. Giving away ownership of the vertical can be a decisive mistake.

For example, let's say two equally skillful pilots, both in P-38s have spiraled all the way down to the deck and are locked in a neutral lufbery. The only difference being that one pilot stays at three notches of flaps and the other drops full flaps. As the full flap pilot deploys his flaps he will see what looks like an advantage, it will appear as though he's gaining as the circle tightens. However he's just given up a huge chunk of energy and his opponent will be able to dominate the vertical. I've seen pilot's who don't understand what that means, try to match their opponent in the vertical and then realize as they come over the top that they don't have enough energy left to pull out and end the fight in a smoking hole.

In the second situation, it often takes two to tango, when faced with a tighter turning aircraft it is almost always possible to force the fight two circle for a rate war rather than a one circle radius war. There are situations where it isn't possible to avoid conceding at least one opportunity to a tighter turner aircraft hell bent on going one circle and those situations are the P-38 pilot's stock in trade, its what they work for and how they make their living. But when you know the dangers, accept for the occasional unpleasant surprise, you can avoid them.   

Regarding the last two notches of flaps, P-38 v P-38 I will often go to four notches, but because of the very small rate advantage it often results in a very protracted engagement. I prefer the "slow but sure" approach but many players hate it because in the MA there is rarely time and that approach is more likely to get you picked. Even with no other aircraft around it can become more a test of endurance than anything else. For most players and against almost any other aircraft the difference between the third and fourth notch won't matter much, but there is another factor.

With most aircraft, working the flaps requires two things, firstly the knowledge of which settings are optimal in any particular situation and then some spare brain cells to monitor exactly where your flaps are at any given moment, complicated by the flaps auto retracting if your airspeed increases. Often in an intense engagement where you are focused on maneuvering and possibly trying to monitor other bandits, it is easy to lose track. The nice thing about being at three notches of flaps in a hard low speed maneuvering engagement in the P-38 is that they will just stay there. You can get to three notches and then pretty much forget about them for a while, freeing your entire concentration for the ACM.

So, a good strategy is to use three notches, reserving the fourth notch for momentary assistance over the top in loops or during a rolling scissors. If you finally end up on the deck against another P-38, the fourth notch can be used if needed as it will slightly improve both your rate and radius and can be particular decisive if you are stuck in lag with just a few more degrees to go for the kill. Lastly, the 5th and final notch will almost always hurt so should only be used in situations where the tighter radius will either result in a high probability of kill, or enable you to avoid conceding one, and then only as briefly as necessary.

Hope that helps.

Badboy   


Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Owlblink on November 12, 2020, 06:13:06 PM
Thank you Badboy  :cheers:

That was all very useful information and over all well written.

If you are ever up to it and available to fly, I’d enjoy doing some p38 tests with you.

I’ve used the two circle fight a few times in the WWI arena when in a D7 against the Dr.I
and I am not able to right away start low/Hi yo-yos to get energy and cut across their turn radius.
       If I understand correctly from recalling some old diagrams (likely by you), a two circle example - for simplicity - occurs when one plane is turning left and you turn right, so when viewed from the “top” your flight paths are creating somewhat of a figure 8 vs an oblique 0
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Badboy on November 13, 2020, 12:35:52 PM
If I understand correctly from recalling some old diagrams (likely by you), a two circle example - for simplicity - occurs when one plane is turning left and you turn right, so when viewed from the “top” your flight paths are creating somewhat of a figure 8 vs an oblique 0

Hi Owlblink

Well, you can't beat a diagram for clarity, so try these:

(https://i.imgur.com/QDXjuLj.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ISAOVjn.jpg)

and just to clarify the turn directions I did this one some time ago:

(https://i.imgur.com/dBVgfsQ.jpg)

Wow, was it really that long ago  :eek:

Revisiting some of my old diagrams has made me realize how long I've been doing this. I Just did the math, seems I started flying AW in 1990 and to me Aces High feels like exactly the same game, so I've been doing this for 30 years. The good part is, when I fly, I don't feel any older ;)

Anyway, hope that helps.

Badboy
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Owlblink on November 14, 2020, 06:50:21 PM
I appreciate the diagrams badboy, but the explanation for the two circle one still has some confusing wording that requires clarification.
Two circle says “turn into eachother,” in my mind that is the same as turning nose to nose.
In a merge, if I go lower or slightly off the side of an oncoming aircraft and use an oblique turn or an immelmann to get “behind” him for a crossing shot, and he does the same, are we not turning into eachother?
Maybe it would be better to discribe it on terms of which way our lift vectors are pointing.
The two circle looks like both planes are turning “away” from eachother’s lift vectors. 
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: FLS on November 14, 2020, 07:25:19 PM
When both pilots turn the same relative direction in a head on merge, for example both make right turns, it's a two circle fight. A two circle fight favors turn rate.

If the pilots turn opposite directions, one goes left and the other goes right, then it's a one circle fight. A one circle fight favors radius.

Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Badboy on November 15, 2020, 07:38:35 AM
Maybe it would be better to discribe it on terms of which way our lift vectors are pointing.

Ok, I have a lift vector explanation for you.

Just to clarify though in a turn, the lift vector is always pointing towards the center of your turn circle.
When I refer to a direction, I'm doing so in terms of compass heading for horizontal turns or just up and down for vertical turns.


With that in mind we can revisit the diagrams. In those diagrams we can say that the top of each one is North. Then using the lift vector terminology we would reason like this:

For the one circle diagram we see that at the merge both aircraft have their lift vectors pointing West. They are pointing in the same direction, so it is a one circle fight.

For the two circle diagram we see that at the merge Blue pilot's lift vector is pointing East, while Red pilot's lift vector is pointing West. They are pointing in opposite directions so it is a two circle fight. 

Quote
In a merge, if I go lower or slightly off the side of an oncoming aircraft and use an oblique turn or an immelmann to get “behind” him for a crossing shot, and he does the same, are we not turning into eachother?

In the case of each pilot doing an Immelmann both pilots will have their lift vectors pointing up. Both lift vectors are pointing in the same direction and so it is a one circle fight.

Quote
The two circle looks like both planes are turning “away” from each other’s lift vectors.

At the merge they roll into each and are each pointing their lift vector at the other. Their lift vectors are therefore pointing in opposite directions and thus a two circle fight.

Just reviewing my previous explanations and the one provided by FLS and they all appear consistent and correct.

However, I write fairly quickly and there is plenty of room for confusion, if your not getting it, it's my fault entirely. If you still don't see it, just keep asking and I'm sure we will get there, it's certainly worth the effort.

My experience is that we all sometimes need to see things explained in different ways before one of them causes the penny to drop.

Kind regards

Badboy
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Puma44 on November 15, 2020, 08:16:16 AM
Badboy, excellent diagrams and explanations.  :aok  Also, use of the term “lift vector” which is vital to understand in BFM/ACM discussion and teaching.  Well done, my friend!  :salute
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Badboy on November 15, 2020, 11:36:04 AM
Badboy, excellent diagrams and explanations.  :aok  Also, use of the term “lift vector” which is vital to understand in BFM/ACM discussion and teaching.  Well done, my friend!  :salute

Thanks Puma44!

Always nice to get confirmation from someone who's been there and done it.

Also, the time you spent schooling me in section tactics has been greatly appreciated.

Let's wing together again soon.

Kind regards

Badboy
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Puma44 on November 15, 2020, 03:38:12 PM
Thanks Puma44!

Always nice to get confirmation from someone who's been there and done it.

Also, the time you spent schooling me in section tactics has been greatly appreciated.

Let's wing together again soon.

Kind regards

Badboy


You’re quite welcome!  Anytime you’re ready, my friend!

Check six!
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Owlblink on November 15, 2020, 08:56:12 PM
Thank you, gentlemen!

All the various explanations did help. I hope the original OP has gotten some use out of this discussion as well.
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: Mongoose on November 27, 2020, 12:54:04 PM

Here's an old video I made that demonstrates dual throttle control in a P-38.



I was going back through this thread.  FLS, I have to say that video is impressive and exhilarating and humbling.
Title: Re: P-38 Techniques
Post by: FLS on November 27, 2020, 03:45:22 PM
Thanks.

The key to rotating on the yaw axis is just going slow enough to fall instead of fly. The P-38 is well suited to going slow without torqueing off until you want it to.