Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: svaalbar on June 03, 2021, 09:42:03 PM
-
Is that what it is called when you do like a ride-along with another pilot in like a small plane?
Anyone have some experiences or advice about it? Thinking about booking one soon this summer.
My career really isn't challenging me anymore so I'm thinking about getting a PPL.... :) All the hours I logged flying in cartoon war counts for something right?
-
Usually a CFI will put you in the left seat, take you up to altitude (varies depending on where you are), give you the controls, you fly a bit, head back to the airport, CFI will land. Then they should have a chat with you about if you enjoyed it, would you be interested in taking lessons, etc.
To get a ballpark on training costs, find out what the CFI and rental rates are. Multiply those by 60 and add them. (CFI * 60) + (Rental * 60) = ballpark.
You'll hear a lot of "All you need is 40 hours." 40 is the "legal" requirement for a PPL (not sport) but the national average to checkride is 60. If you do it in under 60, awesome, and you come in under budget.
There can be additional costs for things like books / training kits, headsets (if they don't provide as part of the rental), kneeboards, ground school, fuel (if dry rental) and maybe renters insurance.
Once you're done, you will also have recurring costs for things like keeping current and flight reviews. If you're flying often the currency wont be an issue. You can also offset or sometimes even eliminate the flight reviews by completing phases of the Wings program.
That's a quick very broad overview. There used to be a lot of Pilots/CFIs around here that were always happy to hangar talk. No idea who's still here/lurking. ..... and back to lurking I go :noid
-
Agreed, plan for 60hrs minimum. I did my check ride at 65 and I don't know anyone who did it in less than 55. I knew a couple guys that only budgeted for the minimums, ran out of money before they were ready for their check ride and didn't finish. If you can, have enough for your whole flight training and try to fly as often as possible while working towards your ppl. If you only fly once a week or every couple weeks not only will it take longer you will end up spending more flight hours reviewing previous lessons, costing you more in the long run.
Your instructor will also charge for ground brief time for new lessons, usually about a 1/2 hr a flight. It's not much but if you're on a tight budget it adds up.
You will also have 45hrs ground school to sit through. You can do ground school (usually 1 evening a week) and flight training at the same time. Personally I think having at least a couple hrs in the air before starting ground school helps, but there is no set order.
For your disco flight the only thing I can add is that the CFI (Certified Flight Instructor) will generally have you do the walkaround with them and give you a rundown of the a/c instruments and controls. If the a/c has the seats you can also take passengers (check with the individual school to confirm).
On top of that, absolutely do a disco flight. On the off chance you decide it's not for you, you can walk away before you have invested a bunch of time and money. If you love it (almost guaranteed) and continue your training you can log the flight time towards your ppl.
-
I soloed after 4 hours and got my SEL in 40.5 hours. But that was in 1969 when an hour of dual time in a 150 (emergency brake handle flaps1) was about $35/hr wet. I think my total cost was about $1,200 for my ticket.
I'm sure CFI's have tried to maximize their income, but I don't have any heartburn with that. I think students need more dual time than I had. I think more dual time wouldn't have hurt me at all.
It was a different era.
-
Cost for flight training will vary by region in the U.S.
On the West coast the plane rental will be around $120-$149 per hour. As an example using the previous post hours required (60)*$125 per hour = $7,500 just to rent the plane.
Instructor rates are averaging between $50-$60 an hour. You only need 20hrs dual w/ a CFI but the national average being what it is - you can safely add the additional 10 hours to be at 30hrs dual given; $55*30hrs =$1,650.
Your equipment such as books, a “Cheap” headset, an E6B, or equivalent calculator, and a couple of other incidentals will be pretty close to another $1,000 bucks. If you have the patience- you can go to the FAA website and download the books for free. Don’t try printing them either.... lol if you go that route it’s cheaper to purchase them.
There is a charge to taKe the written test around $89.00 - $110 dollars.
There is also a charge to take the oral/ and flight exam. That will also vary by region but $500.00- $650 isn’t out of the question. Even higher in different states.
One last thing...... even though flying is a great hobby, it is extremely expensive.
If you make the decision to take lessons - prepare yourself to train at least two days a week minimum - 3 days a week is better.
Training 3 days a week puts a strain on relationships, family, work etc. but is a very successful time frame of getting your License, and usually results in a person spending “Less Money”.
Training 2 days a week although doable usually results in some sort of remedial training hence the additional “national average” hours required after reaching your 40 hrs. Again this hits the national average numbers and results in having a person spend “More Money”.
If you can only devote 1 day a week to flight training then you can almost double the hours required.
Flight training is a proficient based activity. Meaning if you train more over a shorter period of time the total cost should come in below the national average and closer to 40hrs.
But if you are like 90% of flight students, many things get in the way (family, work, everyday home life & Money) to committing time on a weekly basis. Because flying requires proficiency - you can count on having to make up an hour or two for every training day you miss or cancel. This behavior also drives the national flight hours up.
I do not personally know anybody that hasn’t liked learning to fly. However, I have seen close to 45% students quit because of the financial obligation.
TAKE the discovery flight. It’s usually 30 min long. Some CFIs may waive their fee to earn your business.
At any rate You will know in the first few 30 seconds after taking control of the plane from the CFI whether you will like it or say “Its not for me”.
-
Is that what it is called when you do like a ride-along with another pilot in like a small plane?
Anyone have some experiences or advice about it? Thinking about booking one soon this summer.
My career really isn't challenging me anymore so I'm thinking about getting a PPL.... :) All the hours I logged flying in cartoon war counts for something right?
Got my ppl a year and a half ago. I highly recommend it if you are made of money. If not, it's a sure fire way to stay broke like me. I got my ppl in just under 50 hours and spent well over 20k..
-
Highly recommend the discovery flight. You'll be even more hooked once you climb out of the left seat.
I took mine when I was in Reno about 11 or so years ago but it still seems like yesterday it was that much fun. Back then I was in a different flight sim, wb, and used a twisty stick so I didn't have pedals like I do now and that showed, see taxi part. Turned out to be an awesome birthday gift. You get there, they do some admin paperwork, meet your instructor then it is on. You ready, yup I say and out we go to the flight line. The instructor preps the plane all the time telling you what's going on and what to check for. In one ear and out the other that time lol.
We jump in and go over the gauges and things then you get some radio instruction and how the flight will go. He will taxi out and do all the radio and take off, then at 2k he will say you've got the controls, say it's my plane back and then it's your plane and he'll help me along the way.
Taxi around and he's tells me to place my feet on the rudder pedals, I do and they feel really heavy. This guy is rolling faster than I thought then tells me ok it's your pedals, keep the front wheel on the center line. I'm jamming the pedal to the floor it seemed like and of course I'm all over the place. We get near the turn for the runway and I am told I've got the pedals so I say back it's your plane and he parks us waiting for clearance. He spins it up and off we go. Little Cessna 172 gets up in the air pretty fast and we are off.
A few minutes later I hear ok here we go continue on this course to 10k, you've got the plane, I say it's my plane and I am flying. Freaking cool and I move all the surfaces a little to get the feel of them much smoother in the air, looking around trying to take it all in, checking gauges on the climb to 10k, good times until I hear hey see that white puffy cloud. Yeah I know where this is going. He wants me to see what turbulence does. If you've ever landed from the south into RTO you know what turbulence is lol. So I turn slight right to the cloud and yup a shakin and bouncing we start, he tells me ok turn left and head south to Carson City. He gives me a flight plan of s to carson then w to lake tahoe where we will do some laps over the lake, then over truckee calif then head back home. A few miles from the airport he clears us to land and takes the controls back to land. We park, secure the plane and I get out and a smile is ear to ear the whole time. We talk about lessons, lots of money and I didn't really have the time to do 3 times a week so that never happened but man I will never forget that flight. What was supposed to be a total of 45 mins in the air was an hour and a half. Coolest instructor and best time ever.
So yeah, take the flight. Tons of fun.
-
speaking as a CFII who performed many introductory/ discovery flights. I always used to time to do a little salesmanship of my flight school's selling points and my services as well, I wasn't building time, but actually training new pilots interested in aviation either for fun or business, career. You need some flexibility, but you need a school that can work with you on your schedule. My introductory flight was to have the newbe fellow me through a walk around, get them seated in the left seat and run the checklist for start up and let them taxi, I handled any radio traffic / tower calls. Get them lined up on the runway and talk them through the take off and climb, me doing most of the rudder work, but them applying back pressure and me trimming, take them out to do some sight seeing and talk the through the four fundamentals. Talk them back into the pattern, and using the four fundamentals Land. They did 90% of the aircraft control manipulation, I just keep it safe. Most not all, signed up. If you want a career. Do what I did, save your money, go to a flight School in an area where you can fly every day, I flew twice a day, every day 7 days a week and came away in 6 months with Commercial, Instrument, Multiengine, CFII, Multiengine CFII. My first job as a commercial pilot was towing banners up and down the Jersey shore. I flew for two airlines, Monmouth Airlines out of KBLM and got picked up by Eastern Airlines out of KEWR. When Eastern went belly up I started my own Aviation company and supplied pilots and pilot training to Corporate aviation departments. I ran my own business for 38 years until my wife passed away, Sold the business and I'm still an active CFII. I loved teaching flight,, passing on the knowledge. Good Luck.
-
Thanks everyone for the responses. I read through them all twice so far, and probably will re-read them again and again, and post some more questions in a bit.
My goal isn't to change careers, currently I'm a software developer, but just not satisfied doing that sort of work anymore in the most challenging sense. I did really complex software stuff in my 20s, now I'm just over it. I'll still work as a software developer, but I just don't find enjoyment or satisfaction building CRUD web apps for the millionth time.
I make good money and don't have kids yet, so the idea of maybe getting a PPL is a long shot, but I at least want to do the discovery flight before I start my own family and lose all my free time. Then perhaps I'll be able to share a plane with some other guys at some hanger and be able to fly a few times a month or so. I'm not sure if that is realistic, I'm a total innocent noob when it comes to in real life flight stuff that isn't just a booked plane ride on a 737 with a major airliner :)
-
Good stuff. Thanks for all the info.
I'm curious. Does flight sim proficiency translate? Does it depend on the sim? Does it create things that you have to unlearn making it move challenging?
-
Thanks everyone for the responses. I read through them all twice so far, and probably will re-read them again and again, and post some more questions in a bit.
My goal isn't to change careers, currently I'm a software developer, but just not satisfied doing that sort of work anymore in the most challenging sense. I did really complex software stuff in my 20s, now I'm just over it. I'll still work as a software developer, but I just don't find enjoyment or satisfaction building CRUD web apps for the millionth time.
I make good money and don't have kids yet, so the idea of maybe getting a PPL is a long shot, but I at least want to do the discovery flight before I start my own family and lose all my free time. Then perhaps I'll be able to share a plane with some other guys at some hanger and be able to fly a few times a month or so. I'm not sure if that is realistic, I'm a total innocent noob when it comes to in real life flight stuff that isn't just a booked plane ride on a 737 with a major airliner :)
Good stuff. Thanks for all the info.
I'm curious. Does flight sim proficiency translate? Does it depend on the sim? Does it create things that you have to unlearn making it move challenging?
Here is what I can tell you and many may disagree. The only flight I had experienced other than RC up until I was 22(last year, was Aces High. I had my checkride scheduled at 31 hours and took it shy of 60 due to weather cancelations. I got the hang of it very quick and I do not accredit that to anything other than AH and Various Flight sims, as I have never in my life been successful at anything else. I do think you can learn foundational skills while playing video games. (Maybe wishful thinking that it would help is all that made any difference)
-
This may sound shallow, but I like playing AH in VR. I thought that in VR that IL2 or DCS would change my experience for those games.
At the end I was just like. Man this sucks. I should just go fly in real life. Plus I love the dudes in the AH community too much (no homo)
I really don't think any AH skills could be transferred to real life except maybe two: 1) reading instruments, and 2) when your plane runs out of oil or some dude/auto gun shoots out your engine and you have to make a landing decision quick and stick to it :)
Well except in real life you can't shoot other planes down like cartoon war... and it costs a lot of money :D
-
I started flying irl at 17 and had only played a couple late '90s flight sims before that using a mouse and keyboard. So I can't say from experience how well video game to real life works but going the other way works well, especially in vr. sight picture for approaches, glancing down to check instruments (vr needs more head movement to do this than irl but still), scanning for traffic all feel similar. But I was taught what to look for, I'm not sure I would have picked up the proper cues and habits on my own.
My thoughts are that understanding the basic controls and how the instruments work would help you out a bit starting out. You could probably use a sim like MFS to practice procedures, circuit patterns, and instruments once you're training. Certified sims are also a cheaper way to build required instrument time. But a lot of flying a plane is muscle memory and non-visual cues (feel of the aircraft, engine and wind sounds), so you are limited to what you can get out of a sim. My advice would be to not rely on any flight sim experience and to go into irl training with the attitude that you are starting from scratch. If nothing else but to avoid bringing any potential bad habits from the game into real life.
-
Just go do it! :aok
-
This may sound shallow, but I like playing AH in VR. I thought that in VR that IL2 or DCS would change my experience for those games.
At the end I was just like. Man this sucks. I should just go fly in real life. Plus I love the dudes in the AH community too much (no homo)
I really don't think any AH skills could be transferred to real life except maybe two: 1) reading instruments, and 2) when your plane runs out of oil or some dude/auto gun shoots out your engine and you have to make a landing decision quick and stick to it :)
Well except in real life you can't shoot other planes down like cartoon war... and it costs a lot of money :D
Sims translate a lot very well. The maneuvering of an aircraft and the very fundamental basics are there. GA flight sims like MSFS can help with GPS manipulation and radio work. But, all in all, sims fail to simulate so much about flying. Landing an aircraft has never felt real in a simulator to me, ever. Those tiny shifts in the air which alter the aircraft on final are just missing in sims. I am not saying that having so much sim time is useless, because it is not, but you will notice what I mean as soon as you rotate the first time.
-
This is what I'm currently looking at. Was expecting a steeper price!
https://www.rainierflightservice.com/discovery-flight
Anyone have any personalized tips/info in the NW USA for good schools? Around the Seattle area preferably. I'll probably book it in early July if they have slots open, who knows with COVID stuff.
Now I just have to look at the weather for the Seattle area and try to get a good day with nice skies. Preferably not too turbulent either... I'd probably hurl!
-
Now I just have to look at the weather for the Seattle area and try to get a good day with nice skies. Preferably not too turbulent either... I'd probably hurl!
If you're worried about getting bounced around, try to book something early in the day. Air is generally smoother in the morning.
-
In Seattle there are several schools to choose from.
Look around Puyallup, Kent, and the Auburn area too. Or Snohomish up north. There are smaller schools at the smaller airports.
One key in learning to fly is to find a school that provides an atmosphere that keeps your interest. Sometimes its the mom & pop flight schools and sometimes its the bigger factory schools.
Also ask some questions such as do they teach under Part 61 or Part 141. You will want to avoid Part 141 unless you plan on a career change. They will tell you Part 141 can be cheaper, but as it has been said before the national average is in the mid 60 hour range, so Part 141 isn’t going to help you if you can’t devote the time.
Try a couple of Schools around Seattle such as Rainier, or All ATP, Galvin etc. and then take a Discovery flight at one of the mom and pop outfits and see which suits your personality, and comfort level.
If you are looking for nice Discovery Flight then schedule one in the morning 8,9, 10ish before the sun starts heating things up.
-
Most know that I am a retired Air Line pilot so I'd like to offer a suggestion.
I got my PPL in 1964 and at that time, recreational flying was well within the financial reach of anyone with a decent job. Whatever has driven the cost to current levels, it's ridiculous and restrictive. Safe flying demands currency and if price prevents regular flying to keep current, then you should stay on the ground.
I recommend that you consider some of the soaring clubs. They are prevalent in the Pacific Northwest and the cost of learning to fly a glider is a fraction of the cost of powered flight. It also looks like a lot more fun than the style f flying a Cessna can do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkhos3OLbZk
-
Don't start flying thinking that you must get your PPL. Just start taking lessons. The lessons are just as much fun, possibly more, then after your PPL.
So if you get your PPL or not the adventure starts at day one.
If you want to come to DFW I would be happy to give you an introduction flight.
HiTech
-
Don't start flying thinking that you must get your PPL. Just start taking lessons. The lessons are just as much fun, possibly more, then after your PPL.
So if you get your PPL or not the adventure starts at day one.
If you want to come to DFW I would be happy to give you an introduction flight.
HiTech
Wait really? Are you serious?!? I can fly down like June18th or whenever you are free after that. Any time works... maybe just not at night :lol
I will buy you many as many "bribes" as Cragganmores in your signature, as long as it is all under $1000 :) Or I will pay you very generously for your time.
I re read this multiple times, closed my browser, opened the thread again, and re-read it again. You aren't yanking my chain are ya?
Do I need to do any paperwork or eye vision stuff? I think I have 20/20 vision, I've been very fortunate in that aspect my entire life. AKA I don't wear contacts or glasses and have never had the need for them. What kind of plane? I'd like to study it with like a manual I can find online so I can have a super novice grasp on some stuff. Sort of like no one has taught me the Spitfire cockpit, except me watching the dials and stuff in game and looking at other videos.
I feel giddy like a kid now! I can PM you my weight, height, age, etc, or whatever else you need.
Unless this is just unreal and I'm having a fever dream...
-
If you want to come to DFW I would be happy to give you an introduction flight.
And here I was, thinking that all the long pandemic grocery store lines were a thing of the past...
- oldman
-
Wait really? Are you serious?!? I can fly down like June18th or whenever you are free after that. Any time works... maybe just not at night :lol
I will buy you many as many "bribes" as Cragganmores in your signature, as long as it is all under $1000 :) Or I will pay you very generously for your time.
I re read this multiple times, closed my browser, opened the thread again, and re-read it again. You aren't yanking my chain are ya?
Do I need to do any paperwork or eye vision stuff? I think I have 20/20 vision, I've been very fortunate in that aspect my entire life. AKA I don't wear contacts or glasses and have never had the need for them. What kind of plane? I'd like to study it with like a manual I can find online so I can have a super novice grasp on some stuff. Sort of like no one has taught me the Spitfire cockpit, except me watching the dials and stuff in game and looking at other videos.
I feel giddy like a kid now! I can PM you my weight, height, age, etc, or whatever else you need.
Unless this is just unreal and I'm having a fever dream...
Good job on taking the first step. There are some good outfits over in Pyolup and Olympia. 40 hours is damn near impossible nowadays unless you’re learning something in 50 years old in the middle of Iowa. Training time also scales linearly with Aircraft complexity, and exponentially with cost.
I work almost exclusively with TBM 700 and Cirrus drivers doing primary, instrument and recurrent in the US, Europe and Far East, and the amount of money it costs on those just to operate the aircraft is eye watering. It’s not unusual to be $600 per hour for a SR 22 and &1800 per day for the guy on the right, especially up at Boeing Field at the Flight Academy.
Just know that once you go down this road you will be liberating yourself of a substantial portion of your disposable income. It’s a great ride.
www.cirrusinstructor.net/flight-training
-
Good job on taking the first step. There are some good outfits over in Pyolup and Olympia. 40 hours is damn near impossible nowadays unless you’re learning something in 50 years old in the middle of Iowa. Training time also scales linearly with Aircraft complexity, and exponentially with cost.
I work almost exclusively with TBM 700 and Cirrus drivers doing primary, instrument and recurrent in the US, Europe and Far East, and the amount of money it costs on those just to operate the aircraft is eye watering. It’s not unusual to be $600 per hour for a SR 22 and &1800 per day for the guy on the right, especially up at Boeing Field at the Flight Academy.
Just know that once you go down this road you will be liberating yourself of a substantial portion of your disposable income. It’s a great ride.
www.cirrusinstructor.net/flight-training
you nailed it. I completed my ppl in just over 60 hard worked hours over the period of about 3 months. Have not flown since the day I passed my practical. Over a year ago.... :frown: