Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: JimmyD3 on September 05, 2021, 11:49:53 PM
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Maybe its time to re-activate the HQ and its impact on country wide radar. It would provide a new target for strat runners, without hamstringing the Radar for a given country excessively.
At 75%, all V base & port dars are disabled for 45 minutes;
At 50%, add all Small bases dars are disabled for 45 minutes;
At 25%, add all Medium base dars are disabled for 45 minutes;
At 0%, all Large base dars are disabled for 45 minutes;
All 4 mile Large bases require a direct attack, with down time to be a function of Strat status, as it is now.
All CV & BB TG require a direct attack, with down time to be a function of the Strat status, as it is now.
The time cycle for each to be run independently, i.e. the 50% timer would count down separately from the 75% timer.
Just a thought. :devil
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Or how about just disabling the AWACS/Tailwarning type radar. Local field dars and darbar still work. Could make it an attractive target again without making things complicated or totally crippling the arena.
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What if knocking out the HQ adds a delay to dar-bar and dot-dar updates? You will still see dot/dar-bar updating on clipboard, but with a delay for X amount of time.
Additional dot-dar breakdown: If you are in the tower of a field and it's radar is still up, it will not be affected by dot-dar delay since you are right there in tower of that field. If you are "in flight" though (be it from that field or somewhere else), the delay would be effect.
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What if knocking out the HQ adds a delay to dar-bar and dot-dar updates? You will still see dot/dar-bar updating on clipboard, but with a delay for X amount of time.
Additional dot-dar breakdown: If you are in the tower of a field and it's radar is still up, it will not be affected by dot-dar delay since you are right there in tower of that field. If you are "in flight" though (be it from that field or somewhere else), the delay would be effect.
Add to that the same delay in the base dar circle when it loses its dar...the plane dot dar in that base range is delayed until restored
It can stand to be less precise
Eagler
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What if knocking out the HQ adds a delay to dar-bar and dot-dar updates? You will still see dot/dar-bar updating on clipboard, but with a delay for X amount of time.
Additional dot-dar breakdown: If you are in the tower of a field and it's radar is still up, it will not be affected by dot-dar delay since you are right there in tower of that field. If you are "in flight" though (be it from that field or somewhere else), the delay would be effect.
Ohh I like that.
Along the same vein, maybe dar is out, but you can hit a key to bring up a enemy activity heat-map overlay on the sectors representing various visual sighting and reporting of limited accuracy. It would give you a reasonable level of info without AWACs pinpoint accuracy.
And like your suggestion, there could be a 2 minute delay on updating that heat-map representing the time to gather and collate reports.
(https://www.displayr.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/rat-burrough-heatmap-1.png)
$0.02.
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All good ideas.
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you guys forget how it was years ago, a squad made it a point to have hq down all the time. we lost a lot of players over that, no way to find a fight. all we saw was bases blinking, couldn't tell if it was 1 fighter or 20.
out of that came gv dar and plane dar. gv dar was because that squad would make a point to drive m3s for 12 to 16 hours just to annoy.
45 minutes in the life of ah with no dar is a long time. more players will quit.
semp
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you guys forget how it was years ago, a squad made it a point to have hq down all the time. we lost a lot of players over that, no way to find a fight. all we saw was bases blinking, couldn't tell if it was 1 fighter or 20.
out of that came gv dar and plane dar. gv dar was because that squad would make a point to drive m3s for 12 to 16 hours just to annoy.
45 minutes in the life of ah with no dar is a long time. more players will quit.
True, that.
- oldman
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-1 for the HQ change.
I'd vote against anything that makes it harder to find a fight. It seems to me that there is already enough hide-and-seek in the game. In fact, I'd like to see the field-based radar downtime made a fixed 15 minutes like the hangars and the Radar Strat affect only the refresh rate as mentioned above.
Your mileage may vary. :D
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Right now you can tell plane direction from dar
Like I stated it should be less precise
Eagler
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you guys forget how it was years ago, a squad made it a point to have hq down all the time. we lost a lot of players over that, no way to find a fight. all we saw was bases blinking, couldn't tell if it was 1 fighter or 20.
out of that came gv dar and plane dar. gv dar was because that squad would make a point to drive m3s for 12 to 16 hours just to annoy.
45 minutes in the life of ah with no dar is a long time. more players will quit.
semp
Truth.
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you guys forget how it was years ago, a squad made it a point to have hq down all the time. we lost a lot of players over that, no way to find a fight. all we saw was bases blinking, couldn't tell if it was 1 fighter or 20.
out of that came gv dar and plane dar. gv dar was because that squad would make a point to drive m3s for 12 to 16 hours just to annoy.
45 minutes in the life of ah with no dar is a long time. more players will quit.
semp
GV dar did not come from the HQ debacle, which happened back in AH2. GV dar came into play in AH3 not AH2.
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you guys forget how it was years ago, a squad made it a point to have hq down all the time. we lost a lot of players over that, no way to find a fight. all we saw was bases blinking, couldn't tell if it was 1 fighter or 20.
out of that came gv dar and plane dar. gv dar was because that squad would make a point to drive m3s for 12 to 16 hours just to annoy.
45 minutes in the life of ah with no dar is a long time. more players will quit.
semp
And you didn't seem to read what I posted or you'd have noticed that I didn't call for a removal of visual indication of fights, but rather a delay being added for HQ being down.
OP was the one that posted a removal of visual indications idea. That isn't a good idea, especially right now, so I brought up the delay bit instead. Nothing will come from either idea, but if one were to go through, delayed information is much better than no information. :)
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And you didn't seem to read what I posted or you'd have noticed that I didn't call for a removal of visual indication of fights, but rather a delay being added for HQ being down.
OP was the one that posted a removal of visual indications idea. That isn't a good idea, especially right now, so I brought up the delay bit instead. Nothing will come from either idea, but if one were to go through, delayed information is much better than no information. :)
Exactly. :rolleyes:
The only issue I have with you proposal is that it would be nice to have a visual indicator to convey the the player that the display is in that mode. That they know they are dealing with degraded information rather than normal mode.
Perhaps the plane icons become circles so you are additionally denied trivial direction of flight indication and that would signal that you are in degraded Dar mode?
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Exactly. :rolleyes:
The only issue I have with you proposal is that it would be nice to have a visual indicator to convey the the player that the display is in that mode. That they know they are dealing with degraded information rather than normal mode.
Perhaps the plane icons become circles so you are additionally denied trivial direction of flight indication and that would signal that you are in degraded Dar mode?
I only threw out a base alternative, so there are definitely more bits that could be added to improve things to it. You are correct, the player will need a clear indication of a delay in effect with an HQ down. But not just with icon's on map, also with large word(s) on clipboard stating this as well. Something like HQ DESTROYED: DELAYED INFORMATION, or something along those lines. :aok
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the HQ either up or down, no 75/50/25 option? Maybe turn it into a facility instead of a single building.
I like the idea of making them dots instead of planes, and a delay. I would like the idea of it disabling the AWACS display except I'm pretty sure it would kill fights because if it doesn't display a dot on their map, it doesn't seem to exist for the vast majority of players.
Wiley.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the HQ either up or down, no 75/50/25 option? Maybe turn it into a facility instead of a single building.
I like the idea of making them dots instead of planes, and a delay. I would like the idea of it disabling the AWACS display except I'm pretty sure it would kill fights because if it doesn't display a dot on their map, it doesn't seem to exist for the vast majority of players.
Wiley.
From the 1st day I joined, it's always been: Up = Dar; Down = No Dar. If there was any scaling to it (as I read about way back when), it was before my time. Right now I don't think it does anything. :headscratch:
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From the 1st day I joined, it's always been: Up = Dar; Down = No Dar. If there was any scaling to it (as I read about way back when), it was before my time. Right now I don't think it does anything. :headscratch:
Last I saw, it took a lot of ord to kill, and didn't do anything when down due to the aforementioned issues.
Wiley.
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And next they will want fighter hangars to be invulnerable.
And next they will want Ammo Bunkers to be invulnerable.
And next they will want Fuel to be invulnerable.
And next they will want Troop barracks to be invulnerable.
And next they will want fields to be uncapturable.
I would like planes to be invulnerable. I get shot down too easily and then have to make a long flight back to action. That hurts fights by denying them targets like me. So damage should only be text messages like "bang you've been hit!" but no real damage that might stop the fight.
Or, maybe players just defend those assets and take the pain when they fail?
Were you around when they were doing what they did? At least once, they took a group of people and drove GVs to just outside the flash radius of the HQ, then proceeded to shell it down repeatedly and pretty much kept that side blind for around 8 hours on a weekend if I remember right. At other times, it was a simple matter of just being more patient than the defenders and having multiple people just reupping bombers until they succeeded.
As with anything else in this game, it's extremely uphill to defend against an implacable enemy that just keeps reupping and takes way more resources than the attackers need to use. Regardless of "Defend your stuff" people logged off rather than defended because defending it was too time consuming/boring.
The suggestions in this thread still leave gameplay while stinging a bit. Complete lack of radar hindered people to the point they just logged, regardless of what we might like to be.
Wiley.
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The suggestions in this thread still leave gameplay while stinging a bit. Complete lack of radar hindered people to the point they just logged, regardless of what we might like to be.
Hence Volron's suggestion and my suggestion and other alternatives short of "No destroying the HQ needs to have no effect!"
I deleted my post because I remembered I made a pact with myself not to get worked up over the "future" of this game. Sometimes I forget. :rofl
Out of curiosity, what if someone is angry because all the fields they want to take off from have their fuel porked? What if they log off because of that? Should fuel be made invulnerable?
What if bomber pilots close their accounts because there is no longer any point to strategic bombing?
Oh...I forgot again. :bhead Nevermind.
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Hence Volron's suggestion and my suggestion and other alternatives short of "No destroying the HQ needs to have no effect!"
I deleted my post because I remembered I made a pact with myself not to get worked up over the "future" of this game. Sometimes I forget. :rofl
Out of curiosity, what if someone is angry because all the fields they want to take off from have their fuel porked? What if they log off because of that? Should fuel be made invulnerable?
What if bomber pilots close their accounts because there is no longer any point to strategic bombing?
Oh...I forgot again. :bhead Nevermind.
Heh. I get where you're coming from.
I agree with what you're saying, and you'll notice I mentioned I liked the suggestions in the thread. I was just responding to your earlier post because the HQ at the time meeting the way that squad was approaching it was the single worst aspect of the game I've seen since I've been here. It made the 12 hour rule and NOE whack-a-mole look like superlative gameplay.
And not sure if you're being ironic in the above, but just FYI I believe the fuel porking doesn't take planes below 75% full precisely because it was undesirable.
Wiley.
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Last I saw, it took a lot of ord to kill, and didn't do anything when down due to the aforementioned issues.
Wiley.
Last I actually went after an HQ, it took 40k ords to bring it down. That should tell you how long it's been since I've bothered with it. :D I heard the req ords to bring it down was upped though, because of that group of griefers. :uhoh
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Crap. Nevermind. I keep forgetting not to bother. :rolleyes:
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Crap. Nevermind. I keep forgetting not to bother. :rolleyes:
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And you didn't seem to read what I posted or you'd have noticed that I didn't call for a removal of visual indication of fights, but rather a delay being added for HQ being down.
OP was the one that posted a removal of visual indications idea. That isn't a good idea, especially right now, so I brought up the delay bit instead. Nothing will come from either idea, but if one were to go through, delayed information is much better than no information. :)
totally understand that. but do you read the threads about people complaining not enough fights at times?
imagine this, a 5 minute delay. have a bomber and goon. a couple of fighters. and you can take a base before you show up on dar.
now you say, well the base will be blinking. think the guy who goes to sleep in the woods.
semp
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But why is that griefing? Why isn't that War?
Is dropping a fighter hangar griefing?
I mean I'm asking a legitimate question. I've heard GV'ers say that destroying a VH is griefing unless the vehicles are assaulting a base. I've heard fighter-Mafia say that destroying a fighter hangar is griefing.
If I were to ever open an account again, I need to know all these little rules. Should I ask Mother-May-I before destroying any enemy asset? Should I only destroy enemy assets that have no effect?
It's not the act of destroying the HQ that was "griefing", it was doing that and keeping it down for very long periods of time "just cause". If they knocked out the HQ 2-3 times in a row then bugger off, or would knock down the HQ before a mission upped and kept it down while mission was in progress, okay. But they did it with no goal what-so-ever other than to keep it down. Also your analogy is a bit off. It would be more akin to knocking out the FH/BH/VH of the only field on a map, and keeping them down for no other reason than to do just that.
totally understand that. but do you read the threads about people complaining not enough fights at times?
imagine this, a 5 minute delay. have a bomber and goon. a couple of fighters. and you can take a base before you show up on dar.
now you say, well the base will be blinking. think the guy who goes to sleep in the woods.
semp
I'm very much aware of all the threads about not enough fights (usually by the same folks). And I am also aware of the low numbers in general. OP wants HQ down to equal no dar info. I countered that by proposing that it should be a delay instead. Also, no where did I state it would be 5 minutes. If I were to give a time frame, 1 minute at most for delay. Reason is obvious. :)
That being said, I'm not expecting anything to come from this. Just turned into a discussion about ideas in regards to HQ and it's impact in game. Maybe in the future, but right now is definitely a "no-go" for either case. :aok
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Crap. Nevermind. I keep forgetting not to bother. :rolleyes:
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I think the "just cause" you fail to name is called degrading the enemies ability to operate effectively. In modern times they call that shaping the battle-space.
8th Air Force didn't level factories because they were trying to capture those cities. They leveled industries to deny the enemy anything that might possible give them assistance. They didn't do it just once. They leveled stuff over and over again as soon as the enemy attempted to repair.
And the Germans didn't like that so they launched planes to stop them and built flak installations.
When they failed, stuff that was painful to lose was blown up. When they succeeded, crews hit the silk. War is Hell.
In Gulf War 1, the first thing we did was blind the enemy by griefing all their radar and targeting systems. And we kept them down. If one came back on line, we leveled it again. And again. And again. Because they failed to stop us.
War IS griefing the enemy.
If a dedicated squad of bomber pilots worked to keep fighter hangars down on all front line bases and keep fuel at 25% on second line bases, and kept them down with a constant rotation of flights, is that griefing?
we aren't at war, we play a game. in war you don't just quit cause you are tired or the wife wants to go out for dinner.
we play for entertainment and we log in anytime our quit anytime we want. in ww2 they didn't have a choice to quit and go play arma3 or call off duty.
semp
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But why is that griefing? Why isn't that War?
Is dropping a fighter hangar griefing?
I mean I'm asking a legitimate question. I've heard GV'ers say that destroying a VH is griefing unless the vehicles are assaulting a base. I've heard fighter-Mafia say that destroying a fighter hangar is griefing.
If I were to ever open an account again, I need to know all these little rules. Should I ask Mother-May-I before destroying any enemy asset? Should I only destroy enemy assets that have no effect?
I've given it some thought, and based on my observations:
You may only shoot people down from behind 4 and 8 o'clock on their plane, otherwise you must hold fire or be deemed a Bad Person(tm).
Bombing GVs is Right Out(tm).
You must not up an aircraft from a CV until the self-appointed Rear Admiral(tm) deems it is time. Nor shall you take out the radar of the base it is near to alert the enemy of its presence.
You're right about destroying the hangars, unless a Legitimate Base Take(tm) is occurring. Definition of a Legitimate Base Take(tm) varies by player, but you must know what it is for all involved on both sides at that base before destroying any hangars at all.
Weirdly enough, you're fairly safe from being a Bad Person(tm) destroying ammo bunkers and radar or troops.
War IS griefing the enemy.
If a dedicated squad of bomber pilots worked to keep fighter hangars down on all front line bases and keep fuel at 25% on second line bases, and kept them down with a constant rotation of flights, is that griefing?
The difference with that is, it would actually create gameplay. That much going on in a concerted effort would take a ton of players and a ton of time, and provide ample opportunities to defend. A few guys in deuces hitting bombers as they grab would have a heyday.
Treating this like a war has resulted in a lot of what many call bad gameplay, like the people who only ever engage if they hold all the cards (5k alt advantage or more, 3+ more buddies there than enemy planes, and a plane that can outrun everything in sight). But generally, that only affects a local area as do most attempts to degrade the enemy.
Globally taking away the enemy's capability to find a fight or up an aircraft simply doesn't create good gameplay.
The main problem I had with taking out the HQ was it was a single target that in my opinion pretty much shut down the entire country's ability to play. That coupled with the fact that the necessary steps to defend were prohibitively boring for the majority of the playerbase made it so people wouldn't bother.
We can talk about what people should do, but the fact remains they didn't. People will tolerate limited ammo, vulnerable planes, and the ability to stall their aircraft but they seemingly won't tolerate not being able to tell from the map what's going on.
That's IMO why the AWACS dar came about, is because you could alert on country channel all day that enemy aircraft are inbound to field 23, but until people can look at their map and see dots, it doesn't exist. I saw a clear improvement in people upping to defend when the AWACS dar was implemented.
What semp said too. People will only put up with so much inconvenience. We've seen over the years IMO how much they'll put up with fairly clearly.
Wiley.
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Crap. Nevermind. I keep forgetting not to bother. :rolleyes:
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Crap. Nevermind. I keep forgetting not to bother. :rolleyes:
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Crap. Nevermind. I keep forgetting not to bother. :rolleyes:
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Yep remember logging in just about every day to see HQ and dar down for hours on end, about when i said bye for a year or 2. It was one thing for it to be down for 15 minutes and having to fly a goon 4 or 5 times to help resupply it, 180 degrees another for that to become the only thing you could do for a day.
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Crap. Nevermind. I keep forgetting not to bother. :rolleyes:
Heh, it's hard, I know. Ordinarily wouldn't bother either, but I needed a brief distraction and liked some of the ideas in this thread.
Wiley.
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Heh, it's hard, I know. Ordinarily wouldn't bother either, but I needed a brief distraction and liked some of the ideas in this thread.
Wiley.
The ideas are fine and opinions are fine.
I'm just getting too old to stress over things that I have zero control over. It's a bad habit. Even if I am right, it's pointless.
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The ideas are fine and opinions are fine.
I'm just getting too old to stress over things that I have zero control over. It's a bad habit. Even if I am right, it's pointless.
Wishlist posts became stress free for me when I realized, and I still stand by my conclusion about it for years. Unless it's a post by HT, it's pretty much noise. ;)
Wiley.