Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Animl-AW on February 25, 2023, 11:59:25 AM
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Straight out of the box, I don't expect this to change. Which may moot the following.
I'm failing to understand why proxy kills even exist as a setting.
If I squint my eyes just right, I can kinda see it as somewhat a reward in an actual dogfight, where they have actually landed some strikes, or they do something that sucks you in and causes you to crash, which is your own error. I can see that. Their flying, for whatever reason caused you to crash. Got it.
However, If I run out of fuel with no fight, no damage, and nowhere to safely land, clip some trees and crash and anyone nearest me, with no involvement at all, gets rewarded with a kill.
This doesn't disrupt game playing, but IMO it's just an oddity that doesn't need to exist as it is. IMO, it needs to be leashed, it just seems too wide open and inclusive. It can't really be gamed easily, but it does alter scoring, and if we're going be score based, it needs to be more accurate if it's to even be used at all.
Not that I expect this small detail to be tended to, but if we're going after reality and scoring it probably should be. It's not a major production to tweak.
I'm not sure an algorithm can accurately decide if one crashed due to a fight with another, unless there was a strike, which may already be decided by a different one.
It's just my opinion, which is lucky to be worth 2 cents, that if it can't be tweaked to not give out erroneous rewards it shouldn't be used at all. I just see no place for it. It's just using up coding space.
These little oddities, when they become numerous, can affect new players opinion of the game, it's not realistic. The number$ need to come up.
These type of tweaks don't require an over-haul of the core product, it's simply a very easy tweak, dump it.
It's just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it :)
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I think its the kill vs death thing in the scoring. If you clip a wing on a tree and "Die" because the game cant give you a ditch then you die. If you die, someone needs to have the kill.
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Why am I thinking that "proxy kills" are not included, with regard to scoring (it only affects the kill count showing) 🤔
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I think its the kill vs death thing in the scoring. If you clip a wing on a tree and "Die" because the game cant give you a ditch then you die. If you die, someone needs to have the kill.
Thanks for your input.
Out of due respect, your last sentence is the part I disagree with. I don't believe someone "needs" to have the kill. I think "You Have Crashed" covers that, points deducted from your own score. If I were to decide to become a lawn dart, someone else is rewarded who had nothing to do with it.
This is not a massive big deal, it's just an irritant to me. I'm new-ish, I may be missing something, a lot. But a new player is new-ish too, and they aren't going to take the time to understand. It just logs in their brain as "well that's stupid". Don't let that happen too often.
Sometimes, we need to view it through eyes of those who are not vets and deeply involved. As being fresh, I have that opportunity to see things on the surface. New players tend to look at the surface. The deeper one gets into a game or programming or other things, the more they can miss the small stuff.
I'm not going to jump off my balcony if it doesn't change, but IMO it should. <shrug>
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Why am I thinking that "proxy kills" are not included, with regard to scoring (it only affects the kill count showing) 🤔
I am too new-ish to know, but if it effects the kill count, would that not also effect scoring? I'd love to be wrong on this.
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I am too new-ish to know, but if it effects the kill count, would that not also effect scoring? I'd love to be wrong on this.
Heck, I can not remember, just had the thought...
As far as someone getting a proxy kill on me, I normally will tell them "you're welcome" , LOL
I do understand where you're coming from regarding new players views
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Gotta admit when you're getting vulched only to see the vulcher go splat next to you is pretty satisfying when you get the kill.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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I always wondered about proxies' value to the game too.
It would be cool if say for every 4 proxies you are awarded a kill.
Also some planes, given the skillset of a pilot, are proxie machines (C202 for many). This would cause such planes to be used more, i.e. knowing they are getting something out of it. :old:
Just a thought. :salute
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Gotta admit when you're getting vulched only to see the vulcher go splat next to you is pretty satisfying when you get the kill.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
True enough, but ya didn't earn it. It's more of a "so ha ha" moment.
P.S. I've been that lawn dart vulcher lately, lol. Sometimes I yank out of it, sometimes I don't.
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I'm failing to understand why proxy kills even exist as a setting.
Because some players will bail from their plane when they start to lose the dogfight, just before you get you a gun solution on them. That's also why proxy range got increased to icon range a few years ago. I had a lot of bomber pilots bailing on me when getting in icon range, and they saw I fly a "dangerous" plane. This happened much less after that.
For clarification on scoring:
Proxy kills count as full kills in regard to k/h, k/s and so on (if applicable in your selected scoring mode). The only difference to 'regular' kills is the kill point value, it's just 1 point for a proxy kill (1+damage value for regular kills)
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Not sure how the algorithm would know if you crash when fighting or just crash near an enemy.
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Because some players will bail from their plane when they start to lose the dogfight, just before you get you a gun solution on them. That's also why proxy range got increased to icon range a few years ago. I had a lot of bomber pilots bailing on me when getting in icon range, and they saw I fly a "dangerous" plane. This happened much less after that.
For clarification on scoring:
Proxy kills count as full kills in regard to k/h, k/s and so on (if applicable in your selected scoring mode). The only difference to 'regular' kills is the kill point value, it's just 1 point for a proxy kill (1+damage value for regular kills)
Thanks for the clarity. I sorta knew there had to be some reason,...It sounds like an Anti-Dweebery setting, most oddities are. ... but unless one knows the story it makes no sense at all. I knew someone would chime in and explain it.
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Maneuver kills are counted in real life. I feel like proxies can usually account for those.
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Thanks for your input.
Out of due respect, your last sentence is the part I disagree with. I don't believe someone "needs" to have the kill. I think "You Have Crashed" covers that, points deducted from your own score. If I were to decide to become a lawn dart, someone else is rewarded who had nothing to do with it.
This is not a massive big deal, it's just an irritant to me. I'm new-ish, I may be missing something, a lot. But a new player is new-ish too, and they aren't going to take the time to understand. It just logs in their brain as "well that's stupid". Don't let that happen too often.
Sometimes, we need to view it through eyes of those who are not vets and deeply involved. As being fresh, I have that opportunity to see things on the surface. New players tend to look at the surface. The deeper one gets into a game or programming or other things, the more they can miss the small stuff.
I'm not going to jump off my balcony if it doesn't change, but IMO it should. <shrug>
I didnt mean that it was a "player" issue that someone had to get the kill, is a computer issue, 1s and 0s, it all has to even out. For every flight there has to be a kill/landing/ditch
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I know when I 1st started I was happy for any kill ....
I think that is why it is there...
Eagler
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Thanks for the clarity. I sorta knew there had to be some reason,...It sounds like an Anti-Dweebery setting, most oddities are. ... but unless one knows the story it makes no sense at all. I knew someone would chime in and explain it.
Yeah... bomb and bail became a big issue.
I too also like getting proxy on vulchers.
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I take any kill I can get...
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My first ever kill in WB in -96 was a Proxy kill, trying to start the plane engine (guessing I for ignition ) first time on the runway :D
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I’d think the situation where two guys are fighting and one crashes actually happened in WW II and the way it’s treated here resembles that but I don't know. StepSis mentioned that they are.
Also mentioned was the 0 / 1 aspect of it relating to a programming thing. There are many things that had to be ‘minimalized’ or ‘game-adapted’ ( whatever you want to call it ) from WW II to work in a game and sort of eliminate the grey zone between 0 and 1 and pick one of them.
Successful landings are a good example. Why should you get a ditch if you land without damage but don’t exit ‘ON’ the runway. In real life that’s a good landing and one that’s absolutely fine but in a game the designer has to set a 0 1 line between a good landing and one that isn’t.
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Good way to word it. I kinda figured as much. But the gray area includes players who had nothing at all to do with it getting points. Example, a vehicle can just sit there, do nothing, and just rack up cheap kills. And there lays the problem with 0/1 programming vs real life. An algorithm could decide 0 or 1, OTOH bloat becomes an issue and bug prone.
The damage model in AW was based on a “hit bubble” that surrounded the object, there was no surface strikes. The only algorithm I had to deal with that was one that worked as a hard coded randomizer. It just randomly chose the damage based on strike count. The default was just too generic. I probably played with those settings for 2 months before I finally hit the honey spot of more realistic. It was just an illusion to mask old worn out technology.
It could be tweaked. Is it worth the time? Maybe not, its just an irritant to me. I tend to ignore most oddities and bugs, just happy to fly, fight, and die. There will never be a game 100% free of that, and bugs will always be exploited. I don’t think I can call it a bug,, I just think it could be tweaked.
In our suspended animation, HT (our God/Rock Star) is living life, (we all got a taste of true priorities during covid), raising kids, its just not a priority for him. I find no fault in that. He gave us something we would not have otherwise. I have doubts another will be built with this playing style.
That said, on the flip side, celebrities usually are not fond of Meet-N-Greets, they do them to show appreciation to the fans/customers who paid their way all those years, and now. Its just good biz, not a requirement.
The core of this game is very solid. We’re not asking for huge changes, massive updates,… just a few tweaks to what we have.
Make any wish with no expectations.
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AFAIK "unearned" proxies do not earn perks, damage points, or get included in the stats. They're just empty text buffer messages.
However, if you got damage on the other and they auger in for whatever reason, perks and points will be counted, assuming you're still in flight.
I might be wrong - if so, someone will correct me,
I'm sure.
Example, a vehicle can just sit there, do nothing, and just rack up cheap kills.
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I have shot people down and then seen them flying again..... it ain't right I tell ya... :D
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AFAIK "unearned" proxies do not earn perks, damage points, or get included in the stats. They're just empty text buffer messages.
However, if you got damage on the other and they auger in for whatever reason, perks and points will be counted, assuming you're still in flight.
I might be wrong - if so, someone will correct me,
I'm sure.
For correct information, see my earlier post. The only difference between 'unearned' and 'earned' proxy is the amount of kill points you get for scoring. Kill Points = 1 (for the kill credit itself) + amount of damage inflicted.
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Thanks, missed it first go around.
For correct information, see my earlier post. The only difference between 'unearned' and 'earned' proxy is the amount of kill points you get for scoring. Kill Points = 1 (for the kill credit itself) + amount of damage inflicted.
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For correct information, see my earlier post. The only difference between 'unearned' and 'earned' proxy is the amount of kill points you get for scoring. Kill Points = 1 (for the kill credit itself) + amount of damage inflicted.
Kill points are one metric I've never fully understood.