Author Topic: PT BOATS SHOULDN'T SPAWN FROM FLEETS; WE NEED LSTs!  (Read 1518 times)

Offline 54Ed

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PT BOATS SHOULDN'T SPAWN FROM FLEETS; WE NEED LSTs!
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2000, 10:40:00 PM »
While we're on the topic, let me make another naval suggestion:  

Cruisers and Destroyers should be able to separate from the CV.  What's with this forced teamwork for naval play?  Big guns should be able to operate independantly.

This will be both a blessing and a curse.  On the one hand, the big ships can steam close to pound shore targets while the carrier stays out of reach to provide air cover.  Just like historical employment, eh?

On the other hand, carriers will be a LOT more exposed to attack from aircraft and PT boats if they are left too exposed.  Those TBMs and PT boats will become dangerous weapons, not the suicide runs they are now.

In the end, it will come down to teamwork.  The side that works together will win big.  We'll also see some cool naval engagements.

Oh, and another improvement.  That big bow gun on the PT boat needs a zoomable gunsight.  


Offline MRPLUTO

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PT BOATS SHOULDN'T SPAWN FROM FLEETS; WE NEED LSTs!
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2001, 11:47:00 AM »
I RECOMMEND THIS WEBSITE FOR AFTER ACTION REPORTS OF PT BOATS:   http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/4017/page08-00.html

There are dozens of reports here, from December, 1941 to the end of the war, Europe & the Pacific.

I read almost all of them, and here's what I found:  PT boats seem to have been responsible for sinking a Japanese cruiser, 2 or 3 destroyers, and 1 or 2 submarines. The numbers are unclear because there was often nothing more to go on that the crews' reports and an oil slick the next day.  Japanese records often did not confirm American claims.  Anyway the engagements with the destroyers and cruiser had the following in common:
They took place at NIGHT.

The PT boats were on patrol in the Philippines early in the war or near Guadalcanal.  The PT boats would sneak up on the Japanese ships, or they would stumble upon each other.  In all cases, the Japanese were moving aggressively towards American held islands.  At 400 or 500 yards the PT boats would launch torpedoes.  Usually they missed.  If they did hit, the torpedoes were unreliable and sometimes did not detonate.  Launches at distances of 2,000 yards seem to have been futile.  As the PT boats attacked, the Japanese would try to illuminate them with searchlights.  The PT boats would turn away shooting at the searchlights, zigzagging and leaving a smoke screen.  They usually got away, but not without taking some hits.  Many near misses made it nerve wracking work.

The cruiser that was sunk was attacked from dead astern at close range by a desperate PT boat.  The cruiser had the misfortune to turn  into the torpedoes.  In this engagement, I believe the PT boat dropped depth charges at a pursuing destroyer.  The explosions and spray caused the destroyer to turn away.

The submarine(s?) sunk were discovered surfaced (at night) and hit with torpodoes.

What the PT boats excelled at was sinking supply barges.  However, if the barges were armed, and they often were, it was a dangerous job.  They also did a great job rescuing downed airman.

Many PT boats were lost after becoming grounded on reefs.  This is because they were forced to stay between the enemy and the coast to prevent their silhouettes from being seen against the night sky, which is lighter than the land.

There are two reports of DAYLIGHT PT BOAT RAIDS.  One, with air cover, ran into ground fire from the beach and did not drop its demolition teams.  It made one firing pass at the beach and got out of there fast.  The AAR describes the attack as nearly "disasterous".  In the other daylight attack, several rice barges were found undefended, and the barges & rice set afire with gasoline.

I like 54Ed's suggestion to allow warships to separate from the fleet.  However, if we still allow PT boats to spawn at the fleet, then we'll see the destroyers detach and the CV suddenly become surrounded by one or two dozen PT boats, even deep in enemy waters.

Snafu:  You're right, Osties were a defensive tool, but that's because by the time they were operational the Germans were on the defensive.  I believe only about 350 Osties were produced late in the war.  Had they been availble, say in July, 1943, they certainly would have been used offensively in the battle of Kursk.  What an ideal vehicle to accompany the Panzers as they move forward; it could have defended against low-level Russian aircraft and delivered accurate, powerful fire against strongpoints.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any other information about PT boat engagements.  By the way, in the English Channel, British PT boats, called, I forgot, something like MBTs, engaged German minelayers with some success, again at night.  During the Normandie invasion, the short distances from English ports allowed many PT boats to be involved, usually in the role of rescuing pilots and sailors.  They also did picket duty against German E-Boats (not U-Boats).  There wasn't much action for them, however.

So in AH there are no barges and no night.  Daylight attacks by aircraft against PT boats usually resulted in some aircraft shot down and the PT boats taking serious damage and/or casualties.  I'm not conviced PT boats have much of a useful realistic role in AH, at least at this time.  I agree with LePaul, they are a blast, but are really "water-born kamikaze."

/S/ MRPLUTO, VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~

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[This message has been edited by MRPLUTO (edited 01-01-2001).]

[This message has been edited by MRPLUTO (edited 01-01-2001).]